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Why Intel Should Buy Nokia

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the desperately-seeking-sales dept.

Intel 200

An opinion piece at ZDNet makes the case that Intel is the best match for struggling handset-maker Nokia, arguing that Intel needs help breaking into the smartphone market and Nokia isn't tied as tightly to Qualcomm/ARM hardware as other vendors. From the article: "Another factor in favor of a union is Nokia and Intel's shared history — albeit not the most successful — of working together in mobile, thanks to their collaboration on the Linux-based MeeGo mobile OS. What's more, Intel has a long relationship with Microsoft, handy given the impending release of Windows Phone 8 and Nokia's new-found commitment to Microsoft's platform. The fact that Intel is currently using Android, as seen with Orange's San Diego smartphone, isn't much of a hindrance; Intel has already said it hasn't written off the idea of using Windows Phone 8 in future, and due to the x86 architecture, Android phones that use Intel's Atom processor won't even run all of the apps on Google Play, suggesting the relationship between Android and Intel isn't all it could be."

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beat (2)

WERAQS (2563247) | about 2 years ago | (#40880331)

I think microsoft should beat the shit of nokia and burn them alive. enough with the crap. getting angry for waiting a decent windows phone available on all countries.

Re:beat (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881197)

There's no such thing as a decent Windows phone, you moron, and there never will be. Go away and go back to fantasizing about sucking Ballmer's cock you shill.

Re:beat (4, Funny)

Dragon Bait (997809) | about 2 years ago | (#40881231)

I think microsoft should beat the shit of nokia and burn them alive. enough with the crap. getting angry for waiting a decent windows phone available on all countries.

Waiting for a decent windows phone? Isn't that a little like waiting for the first openly gay, married, catholic Pope?

Re:beat (1)

ewanm89 (1052822) | about 2 years ago | (#40881463)

I think microsoft should beat the shit of nokia and burn them alive. enough with the crap. getting angry for waiting a decent windows phone available on all countries.

Waiting for a decent windows phone? Isn't that a little like waiting for the first openly gay, married, female catholic Pope?

FTFY.

Re:beat (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40882641)

Not really. Given enough time, one of those scenarios could happen.
  But the odds are that Pope will still be carrying WindowsPhone v.666

Is this really good for Intel (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880343)

They could drop a lot of money into a Nokia buy and lose a lot of money.

Intel's delays were responsible for killing Nokia (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880345)

Wasn't Nokia supposed to launch Meego handsets featuring Intel chips? Wasn't that the whole reason behind the joint Meego project?

Re:Intel's delays were responsible for killing Nok (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881581)

Wasn't Nokia supposed to launch Meego handsets featuring Intel chips? Wasn't that the whole reason behind the joint Meego project?

Maybe if they had called it Yugo.

No. (4, Insightful)

obarthelemy (160321) | about 2 years ago | (#40880359)

Nokia is wedded to MS. Intel needs to be more flexible than that, especially since WinPhone is in freefall, and Nokia isn't even trying at tablets.

Dell or HP should buy Nokia, it's their last chance to make it in the mobile space.

Re:No. (5, Insightful)

Telvin_3d (855514) | about 2 years ago | (#40880483)

Never happen. Nokia's market cap is hovering just under 10B. Dell's is 20B and HP's 35B. So for Dell to buy Nokia they would have to hand over HALF of their entire company to Nokia's current investors. HP is not in a much better ratio. Never, in a million years, could that happen.

Frankly, there are not many companies big enough to buy Nokia, particularly in the tech sector. Microsoft would be one. Google another and Apple would be about it. Apple would be buying them for the patents and the other two if they plan to go into first party manufacturing and design in a big way.

Assuming Nokia doesn't pull out of the death spiral the most likely outcome is that no one buys them outright. A big consortium of companies buys all the patents just to get them off the table and the rest of the company dies.

Re:No. (5, Interesting)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | about 2 years ago | (#40880637)

Your analysis seems pretty right but you've missed that breaking up Nokia can finance quite a bit of the cost of a bid.

As ever; Tommi Ahonen has about the best analysis about this [blogs.com] . Beside the three you have named there are companies like LG or ZTE which could get quite a bit out of the "dumbphone" divisions. With Nokia's current strategy, where it's smart phones are barely selling outside Finland and the US, Nokia can't really get future value out of that division. Almost any company that can deliver Android, however, could use the dumbphone distribution network to get its self into the best position in most of the new upcoming smartphone markets.

One of the key things seems to me that a live buy of Nokia has to happen extremely soon so that Nokia still retains some experties outside the Windows phones and it looks like Steven Elop is trying to make that as difficult as possible.

Nokia should buy Nokia (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40882751)

Seriously, Nokia is a handset maker, they have free choice of everything, processors, software the lot. Their problems began when they tied their own hands behind their backs, hired Elop and restricted themselves to making only Microsoft phones.

Samsung on the other hand, made Android, Bada, Microsoft, everything under the sun, and found what worked in what markets.

So I don't see how tying themselves to Intel and using the LESS popular CPU with the not so great power consumption would somehow be a good thing.

At this point they need to eject Elop, get a pragmatic COMPETENT boss in place, and start making phones that sell instead of phones they already know don't sell.

Elop is the problem here, not Nokia.

Re:No. (1)

rrohbeck (944847) | about 2 years ago | (#40880679)

Don't worry, Nokia's market cap will come down.
And I think Microsoft should buy them. Now that they started alienating HW manufacturers they might as well get serious about it.

Re:No. (1)

amorsen (7485) | about 2 years ago | (#40880859)

Nokia still has around 30,000 patents left. At 750kUSD each that comes to 22.5GUSD. They apparently have an income of 0.5GUSD/year from the patents right now which is a bit on the low side if they are as valuable as the Motorola or Nortel patents. However, that does not include the money saved by not having to license those patents from someone else while making mobile phones.

At 10GUSD market cap, Nokia is considerably cheaper than Motorola and Nortel were. Especially since Nokia is still sitting on a 5GUSD pile of cash. Buying Nokia and laying off everyone except the lawyers sounds like an excellent deal right now.

Re:No. (2)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#40881037)

From what I understand Apple is currently paying them $1.5b - 2b in patent revenue alone. Where is the .5G coming from?

Re:No. (1)

amorsen (7485) | about 2 years ago | (#40881467)

I got it from an article named Nokia prepared to sell patents if price right: CFO [marketwatch.com] . That refers to the first quarter 2012 report. I found this line in the Nokia q1 2012 interim report [nokia.com] : "We estimate that our current annual IPR royalty income run-rate is approximately EUR 0.5 billion."

Re:No. (2)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#40881633)

OK I looked up the data. Nokia got €800m from Apple and is to receive further royalties of €8 per iPhone sold. Apple is currently doing about 35m phones per quarter so something is definitely wrong since Apple alone is paying more than .5b. Though not the $1.5-2b I had heard either, sort of down the middle.

Re:No. (1)

HiThere (15173) | about 2 years ago | (#40880705)

Well, you could wait a year or two. Given the current management there'll be lots of companies that will be able to buy it at that point.

Re:No. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880757)

Nokia's market cap is hovering just under 10B.

It's $8.8 billion US dollars NOW, (not "just under 10"), but it's been falling pretty damned fast. All they would have to do is wait. A year ago their stock price was in the 7's. Now, it's 2.27. Expectations are that it continues to drop over the next year as the company comes unglued from its failure to adapt to the smartphone market. Earnings per share is *negative*, and they are laying off people.

All a potential purchaser has to do is wait.

Re:No. (2)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 2 years ago | (#40880765)

Google already bought Motorola. They don't need another cellphone manufacturer.

Re:No. (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about 2 years ago | (#40881097)

patents lots and lots of patents. Google might be interested in buying them for their patents alone.

Re:No. (2)

think_nix (1467471) | about 2 years ago | (#40880631)

Dell just bought Quest for $2.4 billion. Don't think they will be making any other major acquisitions so soon. Then again looking at nokia's stock price I wouldn't call it major.

YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881007)

First of all the Nokia-windows partnership makes sense i know you want to see another version of an android phone on an already flooded market and dressed up feature phone OS but then again your an idiot. Secondly intel is the poster child of flexibility, i dare you to find a more flexible chip. Thirdly, Nokia wouldn't be a very good take over target if they were doing really well would they (no one could afford them)? fourthly Dell or HP aren't big enough to buy Nokia, besides they would only screw it up like web os. I would love to see an x86 dual boot linux windows, fully hackable phone with a kinect built in, so shutup.

Re:YES (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40882555)

Do you think Microsoft is going to allow dual boot? You fucking nigger. You can't even load files onto existing Windows Phone over USB, you have to use Microsoft's online JewDrive system.

Re:YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40882843)

Existing windows phone and a windows 8 x86 phone is a completely different beast. Both ubuntu and red hat have secure boot distribution coming, and also there will be endless possibilities involved when you release a phone with such open hardware to the hackers.

There comes a time to make that final trip... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880389)

...to the vet in order to put your favorite pet out of its misery. As I watch Nokia suffering incredible pain every day my heart goes out -- can someone please finally put it to sleep so it can find peace?

Re:There comes a time to make that final trip... (1)

Donwulff (27374) | about 2 years ago | (#40880505)

Nokia is a 150 years old company that happened to rule the mobile phone space for 15 of those years - forever in technological scale. They've also been close to bankrupt several times during this time. This is undeniably a dark chapter for them, but as much as many people seem to so wish, it is not (as of yet) their darkest hour, and there is every reason to expect they will go on and survive in some way or form.
(Then again, times have changed, and Nokia of today is certainly heavily entrenched and invested on being the leader in mobile phones, making it questionable if they can or if it indeed makes business sense to continue without that, so this is not financial advice. Just a viewpoint to all the "Finally it's over, good riddance" people.)

Re:There comes a time to make that final trip... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880771)

Nokia culture inside Nokia is practically dead. Nokia's old culture was based on Finnish post-war determination, risk taking and fundamental honesty. There were values such as respect for the individual which represented the understanding that each employee had a stake in and responsibility for the company. These values were already under attack long before even Elop joined. "Respect for the individual" had been changed into just "respect" which is a completely meaningless empty feel good phrase. Elop has brought in Microsoft culture to senior management and run around destroying every area of the business which showed individual initiative.

With Nokia culture dead there is very little to bring the company back to a sane position. The very idea of working so much with a company as immoral and corrupt as Microsoft would have been rejected by the old Nokia, and that is probably part of the reason why the best pepople have been leaving Nokia so quickly since Elop arrived. The place to look for the true Nokia is inside the companies already spun off years ago and within the groups which have been leaving Nokia in disgust recently.

For the strength that made Nokia survive before to allow it to continue again, there would have to be a very strong move from the board to completely get rid of the current Microsoft culture. That probably has to happen within six months to have a chance since Elop is putting so many of his own placement into the management. I really don't see that much chance of that being done.

Re:There comes a time to make that final trip... (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 2 years ago | (#40880791)

Given their strategy since Elop was named CEO of Nokia bankruptcy is indeed the most likely scenario.

Re:There comes a time to make that final trip... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881191)

Bloody hell give the man a chance, as a ceo the decisions you make don't effect what is happening now but what is happening in multiple years to come. Nokia took the real hit from their last ceo when he wasted billions in R&D and fumbled the smartphone market, and we are only seeing the effect of that now. You might not like Microsoft for some reason but windows isn't a half bad gamble when you look at your options; like be another android, or try and push your own failing platform by your self (look how that's going for rim).

When is the iPhone 5 release date? (-1, Redundant)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40880407)

I have a Nokia phone right now. My previous phone was Nokia too. For 14 years they served me well, but I really need an update. (My current phone doesn't even have internet access.) I'm thinking after the i5 is released the 4 will drop in price from $550 to $400.

Re:When is the iPhone 5 release date? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880697)

Go ask these guys: http://www.macrumors.com/ [macrumors.com]

Re:When is the iPhone 5 release date? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881237)

setemberish same time as windows 8.

Could work... (1)

phonewebcam (446772) | about 2 years ago | (#40880409)

Nokia is in imminent danger of leaving the mobile phone industry in favour of becoming an outsourced excrement distributor. This could be their last chance of avoiding that and giving their customers what they really want, thereby surviving: Nokia Android handsets/tablets.

Re:Could work... (1)

rrohbeck (944847) | about 2 years ago | (#40880693)

They decided against that some time ago and sealed their own fate.

Re:Could work... (1)

amorsen (7485) | about 2 years ago | (#40880755)

They are way too big to turn themselves around like that. They would Osborne themselves for the third time in three years -- which is admittedly world-class.

Re:Could work... (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 2 years ago | (#40880795)

Not with Elop at the helm.

Rapid Release is a non-issue (-1, Offtopic)

dgharmon (2564621) | about 2 years ago | (#40880459)

"Either Mozilla gets Firefox right .. or Mozilla screws up and you threaten to ditch the browser in favor Chrome .. There has been some discussion and finger-pointing, and it seems that the rapid release process has to take the blame this time. Are we right to blame the rapid release process?"

No, we are not right to blame the 'rapid release process`, nobody forces you to upgrade. The only time such would be the case was if some web site broke on changing your browser. But that's not the case with Mozilla as they wouldn't have a financial stake in doing so. Besides which it is possible to run two versions of Firefox at the same time. This whole 'issue' was thought up in some PR department and is totally bogus, a bit like the Android fragmentation 'issue' ...

Re:Rapid Release is a non-issue (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880599)

You seem to have posted in the wrong topic. Are you by any chance using Chrome and haven't got used to it? ;-)

Re:Rapid Release is a non-issue (1)

dgharmon (2564621) | about 2 years ago | (#40882269)

> You seem to have posted in the wrong topic. Are you by any chance using Chrome and haven't got used to it? ;-)

I got interrupted by the phone ... &^!`1###

powered by Maemo (1)

quantic_oscillation7 (973678) | about 2 years ago | (#40880475)

that would be cool!
linux+qt nice!

Re:powered by Maemo (3, Informative)

moderators_are_w*nke (571920) | about 2 years ago | (#40880491)

Maemo / Meego is dead at Nokia. They all either got sacked or quit and formed Jolla mobile.

Re:powered by Maemo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880531)

Jolla -> folks who didn't get hired by Intel 1 year ago.

Re:powered by Maemo (3, Insightful)

UpnAtom (551727) | about 2 years ago | (#40880851)

Intel dumped MeeGo at the same time they started Tizen with Samsung.

Jolla are the folks who designed the awesome N9. For merely keeping MeeGo going we should be throwing money at them but I hope they can sort the business end of it too.

Re:powered by Maemo (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880945)

you clearly have no clue of who did what on N9 - Jolla ones are not developers/designers: those got hires by Intel already 1 year ago
If you had a clue, you wouldn't parrot the Jolla sales pitch

Done already (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880495)

Intel is already hiring those Nokia employees it needs. No need to get the whole thing.

Re:Done already (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40881239)

Yep, most of Nokia is infested with cancer; best to just pick the good parts off, and leave the rest to fester and rot.

That said, I hope Intel or Google or someone else worthy buys Qt from Nokia soon, before Nokia ruins it.

Why Intel should buy RIM and Qt (3, Interesting)

MtHuurne (602934) | about 2 years ago | (#40880539)

Since we're speculating wildly, what about this scenario: Intel buying RIM and Qt. Nokia isn't using Qt anymore for new development and is looking for a buyer. RIM is switching to Qt and Intel has Qt experience from MeeGo. RIM is looking for a niche market rather than compete head-on with iOS and Android (see the recent interview with the CEO), so an Intel-owned RIM would be less of a direct competitor to Apple and Android manufacturers, which would increase the chances of them adopting Intel CPU's in the future. After all, getting into the mobile market would not be a goal in itself, just a way to sell more CPU's.

Re:Why Intel should buy RIM and Qt (2)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 2 years ago | (#40880805)

Certainly seems like a more viable buy to get Qt than their McAfee deal which never made any sense to me.

Re:Why Intel should buy RIM and Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880855)

Also RIM is in Canada and thus cheaper/closer to the majority of Intel's business centers. Plus access to QNX wouldn't hurt Intel for a variety of other projects too:

QNX based realtime WebTVs anyone?

Re:Why Intel should buy RIM and Qt (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about 2 years ago | (#40880961)

After all, getting into the mobile market would not be a goal in itself, just a way to sell more CPU's.

true... and with the rise and rise of ARM chips, Intel badly needs some other marketplace for its x86 range, including Atom. I guess no-one will really bother to port Android to Atom, and iPhones won't use it, so it makes sense for Intel to buy Nokia simply to give itself a good market.

What happens with Microsoft afterwards though... can you see MS dropping ARM support for all its OSes once Intel says "lets be friends again".

I think Nokia is likely doomed (2)

tlambert (566799) | about 2 years ago | (#40880551)

It's very similar to the early days of electrical distribution; when it became very clear that AC had won, you wouldn't go out and invest lots of money into companies producing DC generating equipment.

The article suggests that they step away from a Qualcomm Snapdragon based phone and move to Intel processors; but if they did so, they'd still need an ARM-based system to run the SDR on to get network connectivity, and they'd still pay the $35/device Qualcomm tax in any event to get CDMA connectivity for the U.S. Verizon/Sprint market. So a move to Intel does nothing but raise their price and their power consumption.

On the other side of the coin, Intel pretty much shot itself in the head when it comes to the mobile phone market when they sold StrongARM off to Marvell in 2006, before they had anything that could compete with it in terms of power consumption/performance ratio. Buying back into ARM now isn't going to help them in this regard.

All in all, it'd probably be a match made in hell for both companies.

Re:I think Nokia is likely doomed (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#40880933)

Intel pretty much shot itself in the head when it comes to the mobile phone market when they sold StrongARM off to Marvell in 2006, before they had anything that could compete with it in terms of power consumption/performance ratio

My understanding (and I'd love some citations either way) is that they weren't able to make it competitive and keep it low-power at the same time in any case.

Cites for power consumption/performance (3, Informative)

tlambert (566799) | about 2 years ago | (#40881827)

This takes going through a bit of a chain of events, but it's pretty clear that it was Intel's management of the people and the engineering constraints under which they operated, rather than the inability of the engineers themselves not being up to the task:

StrongARM was sold by DEC to Intel:
PP3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrongARM#History [wikipedia.org]

Former StrongARM engineers quit Intel for SiByte:
PP4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrongARM#History [wikipedia.org]

Broadcom acquires SiByte December 2000:
Row 17: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcom#Acquisitions [wikipedia.org]

Founder of SiByte leaves Broadcomm to found P.A. Semi:
PP6: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_W._Dobberpuhl [wikipedia.org]

P.A. Semi makes fast, power efficient Power Architecture processors (PWRficient):
PP1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.A._Semi#History [wikipedia.org]

P.A. Semi acquired by Apple in April 2008:
PP1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.A._Semi#Acquisition_by_Apple [wikipedia.org]

P.A. Semi team at Apple tasked with creation of fast, power efficient ARM processors:
PP2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.A._Semi#Acquisition_by_Apple [wikipedia.org] ...as I said: before, it's probably be a match made in hell for both companies. Intel demonstrably does not currently have the necessary management skills to deal with the problem of power consumption/performance ratio, and has little incentive to actually chase that market down, since it would cannibalize their high end performance market, given that electrical power costs continue to Enron upward.

It might be possible for Intel to incorporate a wholly owned subsidiary to try and keep things at arms length, but it's pretty clear that the tablet market and smart phone market are driving adoption of low power consumption/performance ratio processors pretty strongly, and things like the Motorola Atrix and ASUS Transformer are starting to target the desktop market, as well.

It's only a matter of time before Broadcom documents the GPU in the chip used in the Raspberry Pi, or someone else does something similar, and the desktop stranglehold on GPU accelerated graphics will be blown away to the point that Intel putting under-powered GPUs in their low end chips to avoid caniibalizing the market for their high end chips will completely blow them out of the low end of the market altogether.

The only reason Intel might be able to make some (short term) inroads into the smart phone market would be carrier subsidy of the handset price. This is something that's not happening in the tablet space, and so they won't get the same foothold there. As the tablet market continues to heat up with a slope much steeper than the smart phone adoption rate of anyone other than the earlier iPhone models, they aren't going to be able to rely on subsidy.

Intel could perhaps launch a "game changer" by cutting out the cellular service providers entirely, and killing the monthly billing that permits the handset subsidy in the first place (a quick way would be to deploy mesh networking with last-hop access to WiFi to undercut 3G/4G), but that is unlike Intel to be that forward thinking (e.g. you can still boot DOS 1.0 on their most recent processors, and that's limited their technology vector considerably). And doing so would vastly undercut the market for carrier subsidized handsets, which is precisely Nokia's market.

And then we are back to it being a match made in hell for both companies.

Re:I think Nokia is likely doomed (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 2 years ago | (#40882847)

Not invented here syndrome.

Finding a buyer for Nokia (3, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | about 2 years ago | (#40880571)

Nobody is going to buy Nokia. Intel isn't a good fit. They're trimming the company down to where it can fit in a filing cabinet managed by a couple paralegals.

Re:Finding a buyer for Nokia (1)

rrohbeck (944847) | about 2 years ago | (#40880711)

Yes, Nokia might make a great patent troll once they give up on making phones.

Why is this news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880779)

Why should I care. This has some business implications but will neither revolutionize the handset or PDA market nor bring us closer to Mars!!

Seems like a slow day on SD

Mobile losers club? (2, Insightful)

Bert64 (520050) | about 2 years ago | (#40880781)

Intel have never had any success in mobile...
Nokia are falling fast...
And MS are somewhere between, never had much success and also seem to be falling, albeit from a much lower height than Nokia.

Why would 3 failures of the mobile market want to get together?

Re:Mobile losers club? (3, Informative)

Anachragnome (1008495) | about 2 years ago | (#40880885)

"Why would 3 failures of the mobile market want to get together?"

Epic fail?

For other manufacturers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881303)

Epic win! For those who want to get rid of current or once great monopolists. (Not sure if Nokia was ever a monopoly.)

Re:Mobile losers club? (2)

RudyHartmann (1032120) | about 2 years ago | (#40880905)

Intel have never had any success in mobile...
Nokia are falling fast...
And MS are somewhere between, never had much success and also seem to be falling, albeit from a much lower height than Nokia.

Why would 3 failures of the mobile market want to get together?

Because misery loves company.

Re:Mobile losers club? (0)

21mhz (443080) | about 2 years ago | (#40880929)

If growing 277% [zdnet.com] in a year is "falling", what do you consider a success?

Re:Mobile losers club? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881279)

Mod parent +1, Funny (though judging by his comment history he's being serious).

Just think about, if it goes on like that, in just 7 years total shipments of WinPhones will be on par with current population, and in another year everyone will have 3 of them! And in a month after the very first WinPhone was sold their growth rate was just amazing, hundreds of thousand or even millions of percents!

In reality, they went from 1mil to 5mil in the same time frame as Android rising from 100mil to 150.

Oh, and it's surely a grand success for Nokia, even if you count all Symbian and WinPhones as sold by Nokia (which is very nearly so), they went from 19mil smartphones sold to 11mil.

Re:Mobile losers club? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881509)

Acutally, you both have already forgotten Symbian (Take a look at the the table!)

The symbian share is falling much faster than Nokia's WP 7 sales are growing.

Re:Mobile losers club? (1)

sunspot42 (455706) | about 2 years ago | (#40881751)

Shipments sales.

RIM shipped a lot of crap, too. But nobody could sell it, so it ended up being shipped back or given away.

I've never seen a Win 7 phone in the wild. It's all Android and iPhone here in California, with iPhones becoming more common in the past year or so after a big Android flood the year before.

Plus a lot of residual RIM suckage, of course. But nothing new.

Re:Mobile losers club? (1)

sunspot42 (455706) | about 2 years ago | (#40881799)

That should read "Shipments != sales". Apparently the technological wonder known as Slashdot can't handle greater and less than signs properly.

Re:Mobile losers club? (1)

fnj (64210) | about 2 years ago | (#40882307)

Er, HTML uses less-than and greater-than for tags. It also gives you the character reference entites < and > to allow you to place the symbols themselves in the text. Pretty elementary stuff.

Re:Mobile losers club? (1)

Kergan (780543) | about 2 years ago | (#40880969)

Why would 3 failures of the mobile market want to get together?

Because three turkeys make an eagle [engadget.com] .

Re:Mobile losers club? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881257)

A circle-jerk? I mean since nobody else will do it for them...

slashdot agrees with me: 'precise'

Re:Mobile losers club? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881327)

Intel's latest mobile chip Medfield and upcoming merrifield are just as good as the arm offerings (not to mention x86 guys).

Nokia makes great looking phones and has a heap of patents.

Microsoft is a huge software company with some pretty smart programmers, writing them off is just being stupid.

How about covering the real world? (1)

fm6 (162816) | about 2 years ago | (#40880801)

I wish technology journalists would cover actual events instead of playing "If I were CEO" games.

Re:How about covering the real world? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40880841)

I wish technology journalists would cover actual events instead of playing "If I were CEO" games.

But doing so would require actual... journalism. No scratch that, these pretentious bloggers wouldn't know how to do it if their life depended on it!

Trolltech QT must survive (4, Interesting)

EmperorOfCanada (1332175) | about 2 years ago | (#40880847)

All I care about is that QT ends up surviving and being independent again. As for Nokia they can rot back in the 90s where they seem to be stuck.

If Nokia had had half a brain they would have made QT for iPhone and then Android so that people could port their iPhone apps quickly to Android, Windows, Mac, Linux, Window Mobile, and oh yes the Nokia phones. Nokia would have then become the center of the app universe while their own app library would have grown somewhat. I reluctantly learned Objective-C and have little desire to relearn Java so that I can port my iPhone apps to android. So with a C++ code once and tweak a bunch of times portability I would have been very happy.

My worry is that they will pull the rug on QT and then sell the carcass off to some group one step away from being a patent troll.

Re:Trolltech QT must survive (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881085)

You mean Qt...damn kids don't even know how to spell what they're selling

Re:Trolltech QT must survive (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about 2 years ago | (#40881111)

they were making it , but obviously no-one knows how much support it'll get in the future. [nokia.com]

You can keep most of your stuff in C++, most of the games on my Android are written using the NDK (so ignore the BS about Java being the best platform for android, its just the simplest). I understand you can call all your C++ code from objective-C so you only really need that for the UI if you structure your code well.

Re:Trolltech QT must survive (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881687)

Trolltech was dead the moment Nokia inked the deal with MS. No one wants to hear about the unseemly condition of the emperor's clothes.

Re:Trolltech QT must survive (3, Informative)

fnj (64210) | about 2 years ago | (#40882317)

Rest easy. Qt is GPL. Nobody can put a GPL'ed project back in the box. Anybody can fork a GPL project.

Not a good idea (1)

Cute Fuzzy Bunny (2234232) | about 2 years ago | (#40880891)

Quite simply if you aren't selling a phone with an ecosystem like google play, itunes, etc...I dont think you have a valid product. Intel doesn't have an ecosystem. Nokia doesn't have an ecosystem. And who the hell would spend billions to knock out a 'me too' android phone. Who would want it?

Further, nobody in management at Intel has an inkling about cell phone level customer service, needs, interests...errr....or much of anything. About the closest they come to that is selling cpu's, motherboards and SSD's through a distribution/reseller channel. Not quite the same thing.

However, these sorts of issues haven't stopped Intel from buying companies with no fit, or bad companies and for too much money.

Why bother with Intel SoCs? (1)

UpnAtom (551727) | about 2 years ago | (#40880907)

Even if they're competitive with the last generation of ARM on energy-efficiency, they aren't competitive in cost-efficiency.

Secondly, you don't get the flexibility of being in charge of the fabrication process.

The only real advantage of Intel is running Windows proper which means the netbook market or possibly the tablet market.

Claim chowder (1)

Kergan (780543) | about 2 years ago | (#40880917)

In other news, it's not the first nor the last time zdnet publishes idiotic opinion pieces

http://www.google.com/search?q=claim+chowder+site:daringfireball.net+link:zdnet.com [google.com]

What's to buy at Nokia? Like RIM, they laughed out loud when the iPhone came out, all the way to their current situation, and likely into bankruptcy. Where I feel sorry for the employees (I couldn't bother shedding a tear for the shareholders) is that they won't manage to pull out a Motorola, meaning they'll be bought at the vilest possible price.

Microsoft Should Buy Nokia (4, Insightful)

RudyHartmann (1032120) | about 2 years ago | (#40880973)

Nokia has been a huge supporter of Windows for mobile phones. Microsoft has tried harder than anybody has without making any progress with their own phones. Remember the "Kin"? If Microsoft intends to continue trying, they'll have to keep Nokia's patent portfolio away from the other mobile phone manufacturers. Microsoft needs to buy Nokia for this very purpose.

Re:Microsoft Should Buy Nokia (1)

Tanuki64 (989726) | about 2 years ago | (#40881103)

Microsoft needs to buy Nokia for this very purpose.

And to sabotage Qt, which is too anti vendor lock-in.

Re:Microsoft Should Buy Nokia (1)

21mhz (443080) | about 2 years ago | (#40881281)

The existence of Qt is hardly relevant for Microsoft.
If anything, it allows more software to be portable to Windows, and soon to Windows Phone as well, especially if Qt will be ported to WinRT APIs.

Re:Microsoft Should Buy Nokia (2)

Tanuki64 (989726) | about 2 years ago | (#40881501)

If anything, it allows more software to be portable to Windows,

...and to Linux, and to OSX, Android. Microsoft is slowly losing its almost total control over the desktop. And if software is easily ported to practically all relevant platforms this process speeds up. Why would someone pay for Windows when he can get all programs for all platforms? Even worse, as soon as Qt for Android is 100% complete, why should developers develop solely for Windows phones when they can make profit from Android and maybe iOS as well? Microsoft has absolutely nothing to win from Qt, but plenty to lose.

Maybe I am paranoid, but I would not be too surprised when Qt was the main reason for Microsoft to f**k Nokia as hard as they did.

Re:Microsoft Should Buy Nokia (1)

fnj (64210) | about 2 years ago | (#40882331)

They can't sabotage Qt. Qt is GPL.

Re:Microsoft Should Buy Nokia (1)

Tanuki64 (989726) | about 2 years ago | (#40881611)

Microsoft needs to buy Nokia for this very purpose.

Question is: Can Microsoft buy Nokia? With ex-Microsoft Elop as CEO Nokia's slow decline turned into a rapid downfall in surprisingly short time. When now Microsoft buys Nokia one might ask some very inconvenient questions.

fun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881173)

Another disastrous relationship in the wings. Get out the popcorn, this should be fun to watch!

(as history has shown, Intel and mobile (anything aside from traditional laptops) don't mix)

Yes, just like every other Intel acquisition.. (1)

Annorax (242484) | about 2 years ago | (#40881393)

outside of its core strength, it will mismanage and the kill the already ailing acquisition.

I'm still steamed at Intel for that modem of theirs that I bought back in 1993 and they didn't support and then killed not long after that.

Intel is where companies go to be bought to die...

Why buy? (2)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | about 2 years ago | (#40881427)

Apple seemed to do a fairly good job of doing it more or less on their own. Why buy one of these old dinosaurs who have (unfortunately from them) all their really critical IP available under FRAND terms?

There is nothing left to buy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40881607)

There are three types of people who are left at nokia:

a) people who can't find a job anywhere else and were not sacked yet (generally not your thought leaders, lets put it kindly)
b) people who could go elsewhere, but remain because there is stuff to gain in the melee
c) nutters who actually believe windows can be a platform that can make Nokia successful again

Manufacturing is closed down with few exceptions. Brand is in tatters.

The management structure put in place by S Elop has been systematically stripping value from the moment he walked through the door. Presumably plan was to run down the company then - tadaa - Microsoft comes in a chews up what's left. But Elop has done so destructive a job I don't think Microsoft is interested anymore. For his efforts, Elop is winning praise from all over [phonearena.com] .

Seriously, there is nothing left to buy.

Maybe not... (1)

meburke (736645) | about 2 years ago | (#40881629)

Nokia did a fantastic job of reinventing itself after realizing the lumber industry was no longer a viable business for them. The kind of culture that Nokia has is more likely to succeed by reinventing itself if the wireless phone industry is no longer a viable business for them. The purchase of Scandinavian companies (think Saab and Volvo) have not been good for the companies or their employees.

Intel winphone? (1)

ArkiMage (578981) | about 2 years ago | (#40881703)

Is that even possible? Is there a VM layer like Android's Dalvik or is software written directly to a particular arch? If not, I don't see Intel biting.

Nothing left to buy (1)

Ami Ganguli (921) | about 2 years ago | (#40881901)

There's no longer any point in buying Nokia except for the patents. Eventually they'll be bought by Apple or Google, and everything except the legal department will be shut down.

It's very sad to see this happen to Nokia - I've worked with them a lot and they used to have some top-notch engineers (and a lot of incompetant management too, which is how they got into this mess). The most talented engineers fled as soon as the Windows announcement was made, and the Elop has been systematically stamping out the remaining pockets of talent since then. Qt and Meltemi were the last hope for turning the company around.

Worst thing is that it was totally predictable, and was predicted by everybody close to Nokia as soon as the Microsoft alliance was announced.

Nope.... (1)

Junta (36770) | about 2 years ago | (#40881961)

The premise is flawed. If Nokia were the holy grail of getting your foot in the door to the mobile arena, MS would have fared better by now.

Nokia did exceptionally well and clearly 'got' one generation of phone devices right. That success has not translated to the current state of affairs. If it had, then there wouldn't be so many opportunities for other vendors to exploit Nokia desperation to use their name to advance their agenda.

Intel is big in the mobile branch! (1)

killsome (1591325) | about 2 years ago | (#40881969)

"arguing that Intel needs help breaking into the smartphone market and Nokia isn't tied as tightly to Qualcomm/ARM hardware as other vendors. "

Not ture!
Since Intel bought the mobile branch from Infineon, they are probably one of the biggest manufacturer of mobile chips.

they should intoduce a new smart phone. new user (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40882089)

User interface or they eont get in at all. A micro projector is a new start, with smart camera.

what IS IT?? with all this "buy losers" stuff? (0)

swschrad (312009) | about 2 years ago | (#40882191)

why are all these "analysts" who can't analyze the caps lock key always pushing for some outfit with money to buy a stone loser out?

hint: RIM, Nokia, Palm are all STONE LOSERS! they are black holes. they are crashing in the market because nobody wants their stuff. they have gone over the cliff hanging on to their precious nickel's worth of knowledge that multiple competitors have leapfrogged past for several years now.

this is socialized capitalism being urged to protect the losers. if the government were doing this, there would the riots in the streets.

do NOT buy losers. patents are cheaper in Chapter 7.

Htc. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40882217)

HTC would be a better buy for intel. Two companies that make excellent products working together would be a great thing.

Nokia is a shit company that makes mediocre products. All they have going for them is a cool sounding name. They were a leader way back in the day of cell phones but for the past decade they just crank out generic hardware that is pretty much just very generic and not very cool or exciting. Nokia doesnt make anything that anyother number of companies make far superior versions of at the same price.

Only reason I could see them buying them is because they hold a patent for something they want, or they want their facility resources.

Is not going to happen... (1)

slashrio (2584709) | about 2 years ago | (#40882699)

...because Microsoft wants to buy it. They put Elop there to burn all the ships (Qt, MeeGo, Symbian) behind their back, so Nokia will have nowhere else to go than accept a 'generous offer' by Microsoft.
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