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Ask Slashdot: Should Valve Start Their Own Steam Linux Distro?

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the bet-they-would-go-with-a-hat-name dept.

Linux 316

Duggeek writes "There's been a lot of discussion lately about Valve, Steam and the uncertain future of the Windows platform for gaming. While the effect of these events is unmistakably huge, it raises an interesting question: Would Valve consider putting out its own Linux distro? One advantage of such a dedicated distro would be tighter control over kernel drivers, storage, init processes and managing display(s), but would it be worth all the upstream bickering? Would it be better to start anew, or ride on a mature foundation like Fedora or Debian? Might that be a better option than addressing the myriad differences of today's increasingly fracturing distro-scape?"

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316 comments

why on earth would they want to do that? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40883893)

Worst case, static link the binaries.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884035)

Exactly. What a stupid idea. Next they will be asking if Valve should make their own architecture.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (5, Funny)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 2 years ago | (#40884061)

Exactly. What a stupid idea. Next they will be asking if Valve should make their own architecture.

In that case, why not ask if they should simply market their own game console? Perhaps it should run linux...

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (0, Redundant)

JWSmythe (446288) | about 2 years ago | (#40884125)

    As I read into some other things I've seen on it, that is actually what they're planning.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (3, Insightful)

sumdumass (711423) | about 2 years ago | (#40884501)

That would be my logical conclusion. It solves the problem of low numbers of Linux on the desktop. Allows them to build to a specific hardware set that if the source is shared will allow the bulk of the work for other distributions to be handled by the community or the distros themselves. I understand that most of the code will be written to hardware intermediates like OpenGL and such but drivers for such hardware can creep issues in sometimes.

If they can produce something relatively cheap compared with a phone or something, they would be in a lot of homes in no time.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (4, Interesting)

rtb61 (674572) | about 2 years ago | (#40884581)

Linux is a FOSS operating system. There is more to the question of should Valve start their own distribution. There is how much input they want into that operating system. From examples like what Google is doing with Android with a layer on top to more like Ubuntu focusing on services and support as well as ease of installation, to simply branding. Taking an existing distribution and contributing funds for it's development and just changing branding.

Then you can look a working through the various levels, starting at branding and getting market exposure and working up to a fully internally developed version with a gaming layer on top and ensuring that gaming layer is compatible with the majority of games you distribute. You can even look at making your layer able to work in parallel with Google's Android layer. The real advantage of FOSS you're not forced down one companies lane for the benefit of that company, you can choose a full range options and retain control of those choices.

Valve of course is not really likely to produce a gaming console and far more likely to produce a specification for a gaming console and allow manufacturers some scope of individuality in development and manufacturing of the console. The principle being to take M$'s profit (the windows and xbox tax burden) and distribute it amongst a far wider market.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884513)

    As I read into some other things I've seen on it, that is actually what they're planning.

*Whoooosh*

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (3, Interesting)

hairyfeet (841228) | about 2 years ago | (#40884165)

Actually it is NOT a stupid idea, and here is why: If anyone read the comments when it was announced here about Valve putting out a Linux client, what was practically the FIRST thing many posted? "Well as long as they aren't in the repos" and why is that?

Because whether the community wishes to accept it or not there is a LARGE amount of "purists" that believe GPL is law and anything that doesn't have the 4 freedoms is poison. Frankly I would be VERY surprised if some of those vocal members of the kernel team didn't just "accidently" make changes that broke Steam every. damned. time. if for no other reason than to be able to say "See? if you gave us your code then that wouldn't be happening now would it?" to "prove" their way is not only the right way but the ONLY way.

So whether one wishes to acknowledge the truth or not it simply doesn't change the fact that the community is split in two, with the pragmatists that simply want to see Linux grow and as long as the core is free they are happy, and the purists that believe that the four freedoms should be held inviolate and nothing should be allowed to 'contaminate" Linux, especially not DRM which again, like it or not, is EXACTLY what Steam is. Sure its a harmless and pretty hassle free form of DRM, and sure as hell nicer than getting SecuROMed or Starfucked, but nevertheless it IS DRM and the purists simply won't have it, even if it causes Linux to grow.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884181)

Cool story bro

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884235)

I agree that some people get crazy-worked-up, but I find the sabotage outcome unlikely.

I expect they'll hang their hats on a reference distro or two like most software that isn't included in official repos. Ubuntu first, Fedora second. They want the biggest audience possible.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (3, Informative)

shentino (1139071) | about 2 years ago | (#40884253)

Depends on whether Valve tries to use gpl only interfaces or not.

If valve breaks while relying on a public interface, then it's the kernel team's fault for breaking it.

My point is that if the kernel team wants to subtly break things for valve, it can only do so if valve tries to use backdoor apis that aren't designed for external code in the first place.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (1)

justforgetme (1814588) | about 2 years ago | (#40884409)

That's my spin too.
Since the Interfaces can be implemented there is a very distinct separation of responsibility.
I Valve choose the right interfaces for their impementation (and make a good implementation
of them). They shouldn't get any trouble upstream. Interface changes are usually well
documented and if they are not then it's clearly the interface developer that messed up.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884255)

Steam is pretty much the opposite of open source, worse than closed source even as it has closed source with DRM. Valve and Linux don't have the same philosophy at all.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (5, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#40884319)

Because whether the community wishes to accept it or not there is a LARGE amount of "purists" that believe GPL is law and anything that doesn't have the 4 freedoms is poison.

Well, you know. Fuck 'em. Valve is targeting Ubuntu which already includes non-free software in some repos. If they have a problem they can go use gNewSense which won't work with most of their hardware.

Frankly I would be VERY surprised if some of those vocal members of the kernel team didn't just "accidently" make changes that broke Steam every. damned. time.

I would. Such malicious changes would have be very, very deliberate to interfere with a userspace application. And then you'd have to account for the hypocrisy of doing that while not interfering with the use of Linux with other proprietary applications. Not that Steam would need a kernel module or anything, since it's an entirely user-space technology.

That said, given your history of childish, insulting, and hateful rhetoric, posting such baseless attacks against the kernel developers is entirely predictable, coming from you.

So whether one wishes to acknowledge the truth or not

I'm sure the truth lies somewhere, but it certainly does not resemble the picture you paint.

nothing should be allowed to 'contaminate" Linux, especially not DRM which again, like it or not, is EXACTLY what Steam is.

Thankfully, Steam does not integrate into the OS in any real fashion.

the purists simply won't have it, even if it causes Linux to grow.

The purists can cause a fuss, but like any other proprietary application that has appeared for Linux the end result will be nothing since it won't impact them should they choose not to use it.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884365)

Well, you know. Fuck 'em. Valve is targeting Ubuntu which already includes non-free software in some repos.

You have been trolled.

This is just more of Hairyfeet's anti-FOSS FUD. Even Debian, with a policy of completely free, maintains a non-free repo. Their only constraint is that they "must not be so buggy that we refuse to support them"

2.2.3 The non-free archive area

The non-free archive area contains supplemental packages intended to work with the Debian distribution that do not comply with the DFSG or have other problems that make their distribution problematic. They may not comply with all of the policy requirements in this manual due to restrictions on modifications or other limitations.

Packages must be placed in non-free if they are not compliant with the DFSG or are encumbered by patents or other legal issues that make their distribution problematic.

http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html [debian.org]

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (3, Insightful)

bky1701 (979071) | about 2 years ago | (#40884369)

"there is a LARGE amount of "purists" that believe GPL is law"

Are you implying it isnt't?

"anything that doesn't have the 4 freedoms is poison"

You realize why Linux was made in the first place, right? To be a free and open system. Complaining people want to keep it such kind of strikes me as missing the point entirely, likely intentionally.

You also realize that you CAN, in fact, get proprietary software from repos of varying degrees of officialness in almost every distro? Java, flash, drivers... however, we are not your app store marketing device.

'Frankly I would be VERY surprised if some of those vocal members of the kernel team didn't just "accidently" make changes that broke Steam every. damned. time. if for no other reason than to be able to say "See? if you gave us your code then that wouldn't be happening now would it?" to "prove" their way is not only the right way but the ONLY way.'

Right. Because this has happened... exactly zero times in the past. It is no secret the kernel developers HATE proprietary drivers. Yet this conspiracy has not come to pass.

Making up insane bullshit only makes you look like a lunatic.

"So whether one wishes to acknowledge the truth or not it simply doesn't change the fact that the community is split in two, with the pragmatists that simply want to see Linux grow and as long as the core is free they are happy, and the purists that believe that the four freedoms should be held inviolate and nothing should be allowed to 'contaminate" Linux, especially not DRM which again, like it or not, is EXACTLY what Steam is."

Has it occurred to you that these might actually be, in fact, the same position? Linux exist in spite of repeated corporate attacks, not because of proprietary software.

"Sure its a harmless and pretty hassle free form of DRM"

Phone-home DRM... harmless, yeah, right. Screw your DRM. It does not belong on Linux. It certainly does not belong in any official repo of any respectable distro.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884385)

Your "there is a LARGE amount of "purists" that believe GPL is law" may be true; however many of those folks you are referencing are also those who are coding or maintaining very important or core portions of the Linux kernel or userland. I feel you are inflating or inventing malicious intent held by kernel developers, too. Do they sabatage Oracle database or Websphere or even wine? No, they don't. Quit growing windmills just to have an "enemy" to fight. If you find the gift of a free operating system to be repulsive, perhaps you should go start your own with your own code.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884529)

Let the zealots have their pooh-pooh party. If Valve really wanted to bypass the Zealotry all they have to do is use FreeBSD instead :P The drivers for gaming-related devices have got to be pretty awful on FreeBSD if nobody seems to use it at all for games, only servers. Look at the kind of stuff supported by virtual hosting, no BSD there either.

See this is a problem that is caused by Licence politicizing. The GPL zealots want the source code to everything to be available, and this scares hardware vendors. Yet they don't make the (blob) drivers for BSD either. Linux is only popular as a "free OS" it's not popular as a "freedom OS", because it's not a freedom OS. Linux is no more freedom than Windows is, so you may as well just develop your stuff on Windows since you're not going to be required to release your source code.

The way drivers work in Linux and BSD, aren't accommodating to "binary blobs" since they can be broken with even minor updates. This needs to change. Linux won't accommodate this because of the GPL, so what you get are licence shims.

You also see this in commercial software that uses GPL/LGPL libraries. Instead of being required to release the source code, what they do is make a licence wrapper , often as a binary executable that they just pipe to the closed-source part. This inefficient nonsense is because of the GPL. Of course the GPL advocates say this problem wouldn't exist if they'd just release their source. But instead they're just making GPL software look like crappy alternatives to closed source programs.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (2)

MrKaos (858439) | about 2 years ago | (#40884467)

There are plenty of package management systems that take care of dependencies - just release apt for deb based and yum for fedora based - that covers most. Anyone who is more esoteric in their distro choice has enough skill (or motivation) to sort out the issues themselves

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (0)

slashmydots (2189826) | about 2 years ago | (#40884183)

Why, you ask? To embed ads in it. They would have to name it "ad-fucked Linux." Every time I close a game I paid big money for, it shows me multiple ads for other games. That is ridiculous! They're greedy assholes. Also, every piece of software they themselves write SUCKS. It's obvious they put no effort into it or testing it and possibly have foreigners write it to save money. People on slashdot lately really seem to be thinking Valve and Dell and HP and a bunch of other primarily evil companies should handle Linux because they definitely won't ever mishandle it...you know, like everything else they touch gets mishandled.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884283)

All right, everybody, see that? Posts like that are WHY we tell the rest of you not to go off your meds. Let that be a lesson to all of you.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (2)

bky1701 (979071) | about 2 years ago | (#40884391)

'Why, you ask? To embed ads in it. They would have to name it "ad-fucked Linux."'

Actually, it is called "Android" last I checked.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (1)

sumdumass (711423) | about 2 years ago | (#40884561)

Heh.. they must have put the N in there to throw us off adroid ads on Steroids.

Re:why on earth would they want to do that? (1)

flimflammer (956759) | about 2 years ago | (#40884567)

Seriously? You've always been able to disable the deals popup in the options. As for knocking Valve's software, I'm genuinely confused. I'm chalking that up to just being a raging mad person about the first thing you mentioned?

yes (0)

SAShinigami (2694583) | about 2 years ago | (#40883897)

yes, it would make things easier for them.

Re:yes (3, Insightful)

ctheme (2694307) | about 2 years ago | (#40883921)

Would it make things easier for users? Would it inconvenience users already suited to one distro and not another? I'm not really seeing any benefits for their users, and I don't think this would ever happen.

Re:yes (1)

CosaNostra Pizza Inc (1299163) | about 2 years ago | (#40883977)

They could base their distro off of other existing distros (ex: must as Ubuntu is based on Debian) and leverage their packaging system and installers.rather than having to create their own installers as Loki did. They could also test for just one distro instead of testing for many. They can also leverage the software update and distribution system, thus having easier access to the right video drivers, game titles, etc.

Re:yes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40883973)

Restricted boot (aka "Secure boot") says otherwise.

Just what the world needs (1, Flamebait)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 2 years ago | (#40883899)

another distro to fragment the already shattered linux community

Re:Just what the world needs (3, Insightful)

theRunicBard (2662581) | about 2 years ago | (#40883963)

I'm still a linux noob but isn't the beauty of linux that you can create your own distros? Yes, it does create the problem that there are a lot of distros running around, but if there is demand, there should be supply. I don't think there is anything wrong with Valve making their own distro, if there is the demand for it. But in this case, it seems impractical. Not only would they need to convert Windows/Mac users to Linux, they would need to convert Linux users to their special distro. This is bound to turn some people off, which Valve probably can't afford at this stage. Ubuntu is so popular and user-friendly that it's "good enough" right now.

Not a good idea for linux users (3, Informative)

phorm (591458) | about 2 years ago | (#40883967)

I think that xkcd [xkcd.com] covered this fairly well.

The solution to fracturing is certainly *NOT* to make an existing standard. That just furthers the fracturing. It would be a terrible thing to inflict upon the Linux community.

Pushing out packages for the common distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, Redhat) should work well for most Linux users.

On the other hand, one argument for a new distro would be non-Linux users. Just as Android is essentially a Linux fork, a Steam distro could essentially be a "Linux for non-Linux users." More specially, it would be a "Linux for Gamers."
In many ways it would make the PC functionally similar to a console. Boot disk, play game(s).
Of course, some other problems arise:

* How would it be installed? Would it automatically try to make space alongside the likely-existing windows partition?
* Would it run directly from a bootCD? If so, where would it save settings or games, to the HDD or a USB stick?
* If each game is a bootCD, how would they fare with newer hardware?
* What's the upgrade path for installed distros?

Using existing distros would add compatibility work for Valve. However, making their own might - and moreover maintaining it - could very well be a lot more work.

Re:Just what the world needs (1)

bky1701 (979071) | about 2 years ago | (#40884097)

This distro would not be supported by the Linux community. At least not for long. I wouldn't be worried about THAT aspect of it.

Re:Just what the world needs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884145)

There isn't any fragmentation, there is just an insignificant fraction of linux users on the desktop right now:
http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2012-06/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm

If Valve creates their own distro they become the leaders, especially because at commercial level they have many more contacts, credibility and strength than Canonical.

Re:Just what the world needs (5, Interesting)

adolf (21054) | about 2 years ago | (#40884241)

Indeed.

When I started with Linux, it seemed the choices were few: Slackware, or Yggdrasil (Red Hat, Suse, and Debian were a few years hence). Matt Welsh's fabulous book "Running Linux" focused on Slackware, and so did the rest of the Linux Documentation Project (is the LDP even still alive?). a.out was still a viable, and used, executable binary format.

Package management was shit: You installed a new package on your existing system with (at best) a "./configure&&make&&make install" as root (WTF is sudo?), ran ldconfig, fixed whatever it broke, and moved on.

Today, there are a myriad of safe (and unsafe) choices. And while the capitalist in me says that choice is good, the pragmatist in me says that it's really a burden.

The reasons for the crop of shit that we've grown are obvious: There is an incongruity between the folks who want to pay for an OS (Red Hat), the folks who want a free (libre) OS (Debian), folks who want an efficient OS (Gentoo FTW), and folks who want an OS that Just Works (Ubuntu).

So I'll be the first to say it: Yes, the community can stand to have a distribution wherein games Just Work. Because in having games Just Work, it's likely that proper low-latency audio will also Just Work. And from there, it's easy to have video Just Work. And at that point, it starts to sound a whole lot like what BeOS was...except it's still *nix, and it works on modern hardware.

Does it route packets? Does it run VMs with seamless precision? Can I do backups on an ancient Travan drive using ftape? Does it speak Arcnet or Token Ring? Who cares! Seriously. (I write this as a geek who has done all of these things, with a love for computing history, who has a thermal teletype, a box of paper, and a dedicated spot in the living room with suitable wire already installed, just waiting for a modernly-useful application that would benefit from such placement, as opposed to the dual-core 1.2GHz Linux box that I carry in my pocket.)

What the world could use right now, in my humble opinion, is a free(ish) OS that can do useful things with games media with great expediency and reliability.

Why?

Traditional user applications have run so fast ("faster than instantaneous" as a someone once told me is a bit of an exaggeration, but does fit with the current user experience) on any new hardware for nearly a decade that it's silly to even consider them as a goal. For all we complain, both Firefox and Open Office work fine even on rather ancient hardware (for instance).

Scientific applications increasingly rely on GPU calculations which rely on drivers for video cards which are primarily written for gamers. And as a scientist, one shouldn't need to care of the OS is totally free (libre), but whether or not the math is good and fast.

And server apps, well...gosh, Linux has done that very well since nearly day 1. The market needs no relative improvement in this area. It's nailed.

So a focus on low latency, for both video and audio, is a boon for gamers. A focus on making modern graphics, sound, and input hardware work well (through driver and API improvements) is a boon for both gamers and the scientific community. Give these goals a profitable shot in the butt by making games snappier than on other systems, and the rest of the demanding applications that common consumers actually use (AV production, graphic arts, fucking Youtube/Facebook/et al.) will happen naturally -- while also benefiting the rest of the users in the scientific community, and maybe (but not likely) in the sever realm.

(The above is just a dream from me, a random dude, who has used x86 computers for a couple of decades.)

Re:Just what the world needs (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884527)

Sorry but after several years using it Ubuntu is not the distro that 'just works'. Thats Debian and Im sorry I didnt discover it sooner.

Re:Just what the world needs (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | about 2 years ago | (#40884589)

Agreed. I'd even go a step further and have a Steam distribution throw out a lot of the options that make us nerds salivate. Or at least hide them a bit. Make it so that people can one-click install the OS with all the packages needed for games - including Steam - one click to buy games, and one click to play games, and you've got yourself a killer platform for most gamers.

Re:Just what the world needs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884539)

another distro to fragment the already shattered linux community

http://xkcd.com/927/

A platform suited to playing the newest DRM games? (0)

ctheme (2694307) | about 2 years ago | (#40883905)

They should call it Windows.

"Windows" is trademarked, call it "Portals" (5, Funny)

perpenso (1613749) | about 2 years ago | (#40884257)

A platform suited to playing the newest DRM games? They should call it Windows.

No. Call it "Portals". "Windows" is already trademarked.

It would standardise the OS for all gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40883917)

If Valve does this, then Steam for Windows would install a partition on the host computer (whether it is a PC, Mac, or a dedicated Linux box) containing Valve's distro, and boot into it to play any Steam game. Programming any computer game would mean coding for Valve's Linux. Suddenly there will be no DLL hell, and no difference between the Mac and PC versions. OpenGL, not Direct3D, would be the standard graphics API (except on XBox).

The APIs could be kept very stable. In fact, Valve already has the policy of making all Flash run on a previous version of Flash to make quite certain of ongoing compatibility. It would be possible to make sure that any game that runs on Valve's present distro will run on all future updates of it.

If anyone can do it, Valve can.

Richard

Re:It would standardise the OS for all gaming (0)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40883985)

If Valve does this, then Steam for Windows would install a partition on the host computer (whether it is a PC, Mac, or a dedicated Linux box) containing Valve's distro, and boot into it to play any Steam game. Programming any computer game would mean coding for Valve's Linux. Suddenly there will be no DLL hell, and no difference between the Mac and PC versions. OpenGL, not Direct3D, would be the standard graphics API (except on XBox).

The APIs could be kept very stable. In fact, Valve already has the policy of making all Flash run on a previous version of Flash to make quite certain of ongoing compatibility. It would be possible to make sure that any game that runs on Valve's present distro will run on all future updates of it.

If anyone can do it, Valve can.

Richard

Then you run into bugs with hardware support like crappy video drivers. Wouldn't it just be easier to make these games for OpenGL for Windows if you want cross platform? Not to mention it is inconvenient to reboot a system. I think Valve is working on a console as then it would make sense as the hardware could be controlled and game makers can target just one platform.

PC and Mac (1)

phorm (591458) | about 2 years ago | (#40883999)

Actually, that brings up a very good point, and one I hadn't thought of in favour of a possible "steam" distro: Mac Users
Allowing a Mac user to play games in the same distro as others might make a much more "consistent" experience for everyone.

Other the other hand, a packaged Steam app for Linux kernels might cross platforms to Android devices easier, allowing a more fluid transition to the tablet/portable market.

Re:It would standardise the OS for all gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884055)

@Anonymous r u going to boot into windows so you can boot into lunix to play games? #retarded

Betteridge's Law of Headlines.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40883923)

NO!

Neither (0, Troll)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40883953)

Hardware support sucks on Linux. Sorry slashdotters but more than half use crappy intel graphics with 2002 era performance and can't run any modern games unless they dumb the graphics down big time. Worse their drivers are buggy for Linux and are software optimized to make us pay for icore7s instead of icore3s with a better GPU instead. Another chunk like myself use ATI graphics which are also unacceptable for gaming. At least under Linux. I have got compiz to work on my ati 5750 a year and a half ago but I doubt wow would run decent compared to WIndows.

What Valve really needs is a dedicated console where they can control the hardware. Game makers can target just that as well as device makers. It is the only way Apple has made great macs. If they made just the OS it would be a buggy nightmare with things almost working or not at all.

If not it wont work as Linux is too difficult to target and support would be a nightmare. Game companies do not want calls from people with ati graphics drivers black screening xorg and having the customer blame them instead of ATI etc.

Re:Neither (4, Insightful)

bky1701 (979071) | about 2 years ago | (#40884069)

"Hardware support sucks on Linux. Sorry slashdotters but more than half use crappy intel graphics with 2002 era performance and can't run any modern games unless they dumb the graphics down big time."

I think you're talking out your ass to suit your obvious agenda.

Can I run $newgame? Probably not. That's not because of drivers, though; that's because the vast majority of demanding programs made use DirectX, and the best we have to make up for that is wine's reverse engineered interfaces to translate DirectX to OpenGL. They are astoundingly good for what they are, but obviously, are about 2 years behind in support and somewhat touchy.

I might have some graphical glitches and update issues from time to time, but even using a fairly new ATI card (generally regarded as the worst possible situation to be in), I still have perfectly and fully functioning 3D acceleration, including shaders. Performance of what I can run is effectively identical to that of the same programs on windows. Native OpenGL applications (try the Ogre demos) in fact run substantially better.

As for lowering the quality to make it run better? That basically proves you are clueless. Anyone who has actually run into driver issues on Linux can identify that speed is not an issue unless it is an extreme issue, ie, it is not that the drivers are magically slower (think about it...), but that sometimes they do cause issues that drag the system into the dirt. These are rare. The common driver problems are generally visual corruption and general failure, NEVER performance.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your screed, though.

Re:Neither (2)

Bert64 (520050) | about 2 years ago | (#40884211)

Plenty of windows users use intel graphics too, you can't blame the os if the underlying hardware is low-end...

As for ATI/nVidia, their drivers on linux are every bit as quick as the windows versions if not faster..

Supporting windows is also a nightmare, how many games come with a readme saying "dont use version xxx of ati drivers, dont use yyy of nvidia, known problems etc"... I've seen lots of games which have glitches with certain driver versions.

But here's the thing, on windows Valve have absolutely no control over the drivers or the underlying system..
On Linux, they have already started working with Intel, and likely will do the same with AMD, to ensure that the open graphics stack and their games run well together.
So while they have no control over the hardware, they can at least influence the entire software stack. And hardware is not so diverse today as it used to be, 2 types of processor, 3 types of video...

Heh (0)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | about 2 years ago | (#40883965)

If there's one thing creating a new distro does, it's solve a major problem.

WINE? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40883981)

Why doesn't Valve contribute some patches to WINE so all their games are compatible, and have a steam client that uses wine.

If WINE can ever get to the point of development where anyone can buy a new game and have it work out of the box without having to wait through 2 years worth of patches and hacks to get it working, linux would be the dominate desktop now.

WINE is the key to Linux's widespread adoption, and it's one of the most neglected areas in linux.

Re:WINE? (1, Informative)

Bert64 (520050) | about 2 years ago | (#40884219)

Because then noone would bother to make any native linux apps... Look what happened to OS/2.

Incidentally if you target wine when you develop your applications, they will run just fine on windows too whereas the other way round doesn't always work.

Re:WINE? (0)

adolf (21054) | about 2 years ago | (#40884403)

OS/2 was lovely. OS/2 ran OS/2 apps with grandiose flair, with UI improvements that have not yet been matched. It even ran Windows apps, with all of the pitfalls that Windows had at that time, it ran DOS apps with an emulator that is only matched in modern times by a complete hardware emulator, and it was lean and efficient and accurate. (OS/2 with native Netscape and random Windows and DOS apps on a box with 8 or 16 megabytes of RAM? All at once? With months/years of uptime? You betcha.)

IMHO, OS/2 failed because it was designed for a time that never existed: It was supposed to be a joint-venture between Microsoft and IBM, was destined to replace Windows. Indeed, even some versions of NT can run OS/2 programs. But MSFT bailed just as soon as OS/2 became competitive with NT, bad words were exchanged, and things ended up how they are now.

At the time, though: OS/2 Warp had the best graphics abilities, with the best APIs. It included video codecs that made desktop video (then novel) easy and smooth. It was the best PC OS at multitasking (very) random programs. And it was the most stable thing a person could put on a commodity PC with useful of support for hardware peripherals (sound, video, and SCSI cards, as it were, were often difficult to get going under Windows but not-so-bad under OS/2).

What killed OS/2 was not that it ran Windows apps, but that Microsoft decided to kill their relationship with IBM (who, incidentally, was the creator of the hardware that made the modern MSFT possible), with API changes and monopolistic abuse. Such as it is.

Re:WINE? (1)

Havenwar (867124) | about 2 years ago | (#40884317)

No, it most certainly wouldn't be the "dominate" desktop right now just because of gaming. I've got several PC's, have played around a lot with linux over the years, but for me it's just not worth the effort on a day-to-day basis. It's just not as user-friendly, not as simple to use as say windows 7 that I'm currently running.

Linux would be the dominant desktop if they made a well working and competent desktop system where the majority of users would be able to expect it to just work overall - games or not. This includes support for proprietary formats, a consistent UI that doesn't change drastically from one update to the next, and an immediate cessation on the open source fanboyism. I believe several companies avoid the platform because of the expectation that they share their code, or because certain drivers and such they would need to use requires them to share their code if they use them, and so on. I'm sure there are more examples and reasons, these are just some I've seen myself. All in all linux is not a welcoming platform for those looking to make a buck, which means market forces will NOT be swarming in. Ever.

Which is fine. Keep linux as the special use-case outlier. It's good at what it does, small servers, home-brew routers, net-tops too weak to do anything worthwhile on anyway... That sort of thing. Linux does this job well.

You know that saying "if all you have is a hammer, every problem starts looking like a nail"? Well, the desktop is not a nail. It's a fucking origimi-llama. Hammers need not apply.

Re:WINE? (1)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#40884381)

It's just not as user-friendly, not as simple to use as say windows 7 that I'm currently running.

I find that a lot of comments like this mistake familiarity with a platform for it being "easy to use."

Linux would be the dominant desktop if they made a well working and competent desktop system where the majority of users would be able to expect it to just work overall - games or not.

AND if it were shipping in volume on PCs, along with the developer of said distro were receiving investments that allowed them to do what Microsoft does and put money into doing such work. Something that's only really begun to happen in the desktop space in the past few years. Prior to that, good luck breaking through Microsoft's lock on the OEMs.

This includes support for proprietary formats

Which ones? Many, even some of Microsoft's own, aren't supported by Windows out of the box.

a consistent UI that doesn't change drastically from one update to the next

Well, Microsoft just lost themselves that one with Windows 8.

an immediate cessation on the open source fanboyism

Hear that? Stop being fans of a social movement! NOW!

I believe several companies avoid the platform because of the expectation that they share their code

That's nice and vague.

All in all linux is not a welcoming platform for those looking to make a buck, which means market forces will NOT be swarming in. Ever.

This is borderline trolling with lots of hearsay, vague suggestions of "hostility," and zero specifics.

. It's good at what it does, small servers, home-brew routers, net-tops too weak to do anything worthwhile on anyway... That sort of thing. Linux does this job well.

It's good for much more than that. Unless you, for some reason, hate it. Then it suddenly becomes worthless except for situations where it's marginalized in favor of whatever other OS you use.

Re:WINE? (1)

Havenwar (867124) | about 2 years ago | (#40884477)

It's not a case of familiarity with the platform for me, since as I said I've played around quite a lot with Linux, and have repeatedly tried to make the switch completely, using linux exclusively for weeks, months, giving myself plenty of time to get familiar with it. Of course then a new version of the distribution comes out, the colour scheme changes, some programs are changed out, things that used to work doesn't... much like switching from say Windows XP to Windows 7, or next to Windows 8 (Which I will likely skip from what I've seen of it, but for the sake of discussion...)

However Windows XP > Windows 7 was for me one step, while in the same time the larger linux distributions have gone through HOW many major overhauls? The problem here is that linux being so modular and quick moving, it updates quickly and is a moving target. This is its strength in some cases. For desktop use it is also its major weakness. Sure I could go for one of those distributions that promise long term support, but then I'm cut off from many of the new advancements, which on a platform that is still one step behind is sort of crucial to be on top of. After all I don't think I'm alone to on linux find myself often going "Oh, I'm sure someone will fix this... some day soon." Because someone usually will. Except of course if you bring it up, they tell you that if its so important to you, you should fix it yourself. Thanks, I'm an end user, not a programmer.

I agree on the addendum to when linux would be a dominant system on the desktops. Perhaps I should have better phrased it as... Linux would have a CHANCE at a dominant position if they offered a system where the average user could expect it to "just work".

I'd also like to point out that there's a big difference between being a fan of something and an atmosphere of fanboyism. The former is enjoying a product and quite possibly recommending it to the friends, the latter is a bullheaded push of something regardless of facts. Perhaps religion would be a better word for it.

I don't hate linux, but I hate the experience of having it as my only desktop. It's not the tool for the job.

WINE! Yay! (1)

rve (4436) | about 2 years ago | (#40884413)

Wine is a fantastic tool! It allows me to run the sort of windows applications for which there already is a fine native Linux alternative available. Of course the Windows applications that Linux still lacks a native alternative for (my choice: games, visual studio) either won't(*) work or don't make sense in that setting, but still, very useful.

(*) Yeah, I know that with days of tinkering, a bit of luck and just the right hw configuration it can probably be done

YES! (0)

pbjones (315127) | about 2 years ago | (#40884005)

because they only have to make it work for one Linux distro. It is easier for non-Linux people to build gaming machines. YES, DO IT!

YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884013)

YES THEY SHOULD!

Prediction (1)

bky1701 (979071) | about 2 years ago | (#40884029)

They will. Drivers will come to only support its modified kernel, likely with DRM plugs built in.

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

Re:Prediction (4, Insightful)

Telvin_3d (855514) | about 2 years ago | (#40884135)

Hey, Linux has had 15 years to get it's own shit together.

It's sort of like the Apple MP3 player thing. When the iPod launched it was far from the first MP3 player. But it was the first MP3 player that wasn't 100% crap to use. Completely took over the market and dominated everyone. But you know what? Five years later all the other MP3 players were still crap to use. Even after Apple showed how to do it right Creative and Sony and everyone else was still trudging along with crappy syncing utilities and even worse UI on the MP3 player itself.

Nothing was preventing them from making a good player and good software before or after Apple entered the market.

Same way, with or without Steam, nothing is preventing Linux and the distros from getting their shit together. Nothing is preventing them now. Nothing was preventing them five years ago. Steam comes out and turns a branch of Linux into RMS's worst nightmare? The rest of Linux will have no more or less opportunity to make a good package than if this whole Steam thing crashes and burns and never gets out of beta.

Re:Prediction (1)

bky1701 (979071) | about 2 years ago | (#40884167)

And if Valve manages to get even 10% of windows users to switch to Valvebrand Linux, what do you suspect will happen then? I suspect exactly what I said: dropping of support for any other distro by hardware manufacturers.

A company like Valve won't simply float around in Linux. It is going to cause problems, and I suspect won't solve a single one of the current problems in the long run. We'll see how it goes, but as far as I care, history repeats.

Re:Prediction (3, Insightful)

Alex Belits (437) | about 2 years ago | (#40884249)

And if Valve manages to get even 10% of windows users to switch to Valvebrand Linux, what do you suspect will happen then? I suspect exactly what I said: dropping of support for any other distro by hardware manufacturers.

That's OK because hardware manufacturers don't support any distributions now, sometimes with rare exception for RHEL that no one really uses. All proprietary software support you see in distributions that people actually use, is ported by distributions maintainers.

Re:Prediction (1)

bky1701 (979071) | about 2 years ago | (#40884281)

And that's fine, as long as the kernels are all relatively identical. I really do not foresee that remaining true. They will modify the kernel - possibly even fork it eventually - and drivers will be targeted to that. Say goodbye to most hardware support unless you run the Valve distro. After all, why bother supporting a tiny portion of users that insist on using some hippy open kernel? They should just use Valve's....

Again, it's my prediction. It is not like this has not happened in the computing world before. Hell, Valve actually going about moving to Linux in the first place is because of the delayed effects of the LAST time this happened.

Re:Prediction (1)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#40884337)

That's OK because hardware manufacturers don't support any distributions now, sometimes withrare exception for RHEL that no one really uses

You must not work in IT. SLES and RHEL are explicitly supported by virtually all of the system OEMs out there. Are you referring exclusively to Desktops?

Re:Prediction (1)

Truekaiser (724672) | about 2 years ago | (#40884223)

mp3: cowon beats them hands down in battery life and features.

as for the rest, it's spoken like someone who has no clue how long and hard it is to clean room reverse engineer hardware so you 1. don't get dragged into court for breaking laws. 2. can legally distribute the code to anyone.

even when you have the documentation as in the case of ati giving it to the foss world. it takes a long time to build the code base. compare that to the window's driver which is probably choked with legacy code from people who don't even work at $graphics company any more.

as for distro's working together, while you may not see it(go see a eye doctor). it is the same thing as asking 'why can nations get their shit together and tackle X problem?'
it's because each camp has their own philosophic ideals on how things should be and should be run, they view the other's as wrong and they refuse to change.

Re:Prediction (1)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#40884251)

Linux has had 15 years to get it's own shit together.

Really? Considering that many of those years were when Microsoft was at its peak anti-competitiveness and laying the foundation for its own prosecution?

Nothing was preventing them from making a good player and good software before or after Apple entered the market.

Yes there was. Microsoft. Apple only managed to succeed because they were completely insular and had an existing loyalist userbase that hated Microsoft.

nothing is preventing Linux and the distros from getting their shit together.

Define getting their shit together in a way that doesn't boil down to "do it my way and no other."

Re:Prediction (1)

adolf (21054) | about 2 years ago | (#40884507)

It's sort of like the Apple MP3 player thing. When the iPod launched it was far from the first MP3 player. But it was the first MP3 player that wasn't 100% crap to use.

Counterpoint: I hate the way iTunes makes me manage my music collection. I loathe the way that it focuses on playlists, while I want albums. Even though I can hack it to support my (non-Apple) devices, I am loathe to do so.

From my first MP3 player (a CD-based Riovolt SP-250) to my latest (a Motorola Droid 4), I can just put stuff that I want to hear into a directory tree and it works: It works on my phone, it works on my $4.95 dollar store solid-state player, it works in my cars, it works on the TVs and audio gear I have with USB ports, and it works when streaming away from home or from many random devices (including the PS3 and Xbox) on my local network, and it also works with any other random gear via an analog output (which, too often, Apple gear seems to fall back on).

With Apple products and the iTunes environment, not so much: I can plug my Droid into my TV and play music (with remote control!) over my stereo using a $1 cable, but it's impossible with an iPhone.

The situation is a little bit better on the cars that I have which actually do support Apple's proprietarity protocols, but even then it is no improvement over any of the generic devices that I have on-hand.

So what were you going on about, again? (Oh, right. The new shiny that doesn't do anything useful unless you subside within the walls of the Apple oligarchy, whereas everything else just tends to be able to work. Got it.)

Re:Prediction (1)

jonwil (467024) | about 2 years ago | (#40884503)

The kernel is GPL and although a few vendors *cough*ATI*cough*NVIDIA*cough* release binary blobs, I doubt Valve would be able to get away with making the kernel changes needed to implement functioning DRM and then not releasing the source as GPL.
If Valve makes kernel changes that benefit Steam or games generally, anyone is free to take those changes and use them on the distro of their choice.

FInancials (2)

lordfoul (108260) | about 2 years ago | (#40884039)

One upside of Valve creating their own Linux distro, is we may finally get to see some financials / sales numbers when Microsoft sues them. Another upside is Valve may actually put up a fight and get some of these patents invalidated.

Another OS to dual boot to..? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884053)

I'd say no.

Better to work with the established players in the market and this wont crash and burn as some want to predict.

valve should fuck off and die (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884065)

first secure boot and now valve drm'd commercial bullshit coming to linux, wtf is the point any more? why even run linux if you're just going to play proprietary software on it? if you need unix environment buy a mac, if not buy windows. sorry, but linux without the open source part has no reason to exist.

Re:valve should fuck off and die (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884203)

"why even run linux if you're just going to play proprietary software on it?"

Noone is forcing you to run proprietary software on it, but others have the freedom to choose if they want to do so or not.

Re:valve should fuck off and die (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884245)

yeah, but linux makes for an awful desktop experience so if you're just using it to play drm games why not just use windows?

Re:valve should fuck off and die (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884295)

"but linux makes for an awful desktop experience"

I think that's a matter of opinion, and depends highly on what you're using it for.

Re:valve should fuck off and die (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884469)

what could linux possibly make a good desktop experience for? for programming? eh...sort of but not really since most Linux IDEs are shit. Media production? hell no, none of the industry standard pro apps run on it, os x easily pass it. gaming? hell no, windows easily pass it. surfing the web and checking email? uhh, i guess so but there's nothing linux can do that os x or windows can't in this regard...there's just no value in running linux as a desktop os.

Well... (0)

jamstar7 (694492) | about 2 years ago | (#40884089)

Thing is, I doubt there'll be a big market for Steam without doing their own distro.

Here's the thing. Right now, just about every distro is free to download and install. No 'keys' and such you gotta enter. For somebody who's used to getting their software for free, why would they pay for a game, especially one that kinda sorta runs more or less ok, but crashes and burns with disturbing regularity? Let's face it, driver support in Linux is ok for things like word processing, surfing the web, and playing media files. Outrageous frame rates so you get that genuine 'blood in the face' experience? Not happening.

By doing their own distro, Steam gets muscle to twist arms at the hardware shops and instant respectability to help develop the drivers needed for high frame rate games. Patch Wine? Wine pretty much sucks. I've got an app here at the house I need for work, and Wine doesn't cut it. I run it in VirtualBox under XP. It's slow, and kludgy, but it works and doesn't crash. Weird thing is, it's a Java app, and reputedly some people got it running with Ubuntu. I've been waiting to find out the trick for a couple months now, still no response on their support board. It's not a well-known app, either..

Re:Well... (1)

Bert64 (520050) | about 2 years ago | (#40884269)

Linux users are used to getting software for free, but then so are pirates... The difference is that the pirates couldn't care less about copyrights and license terms, while many linux users do respect them and wouldn't download any software that wasn't intentionally offered to them for free.

Now things like the core os, browsers, etc are absolutely essential tools that noone should be without... They should be free, so that they are as accessible as possible to everyone.
Games on the other hand, are a purely optional form of entertainment... They are not necessities, they are luxuries and so many people have no issues paying for games, and can easily do without if necessary.

Re:Well... (1)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#40884275)

Right now, just about every distro is free to download and install. No 'keys' and such you gotta enter. For somebody who's used to getting their software for free, why would they pay for a game, especially one that kinda sorta runs more or less ok, but crashes and burns with disturbing regularity?

Nice strawman. Oh and baseless attack on Linux users as a whole.

Let's face it, driver support in Linux is ok for things like word processing, surfing the web, and playing media files. Outrageous frame rates so you get that genuine 'blood in the face' experience? Not happening.

Are you deliberately being full of shit, or only accidentally?

By doing their own distro, Steam gets muscle to twist arms at the hardware shops and instant respectability to help develop the drivers needed for high frame rate games.

How does that give them muscle or respectability? It would be them reinventing the wheel when they could be working on making it work very well on an existing distro.

Re:Well... (1)

isCreeper($('Ssss')) (2424986) | about 2 years ago | (#40884575)

Let's face it, driver support in Linux is ok for things like word processing, surfing the web, and playing media files. Outrageous frame rates so you get that genuine 'blood in the face' experience? Not happening.

Valve had L4D2 running better under Linux than Windows, and on NVidia hardware too. Decent framerates are not impossible.

Yes! (1)

meburke (736645) | about 2 years ago | (#40884101)

As mentioned, they only have to make it work on one distribution. They can concentrate on maximizing performance for this distro, and, by making the source available, open the doors for independent game developers and other enhancements.

The distro fragmentation argument is not relevant; those looking for linux distros for work or other production are unlikely to consider a specialized platform. (How often have you seen Morphix installed as the compny-wide platform?

Why bother when windows works better? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884103)

367++ TOP FORTUNE 100/500 (or best 100 to work for per CNN Money) COMPANIES, EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS, &/or GOVERNMENT AGENCIES USING WINDOWS (over other solutions like Linux) both in HIGH TPM ENVIRONS, & FROM "TOP 100 COMPANIES TO WORK FOR" (per CNN Money 2011):

---

38 HIGH TPM & 99.999% "uptime" examples:

---

XEROX: Managing 7++ million transactions a day for office devices for its customers using Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 64-bit with 99.999% uptime!

NASDAQ: The U.S.' LARGEST STOCK EXCHANGE, Since 2005 has had Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 in failover clusters running the "official trade data dissemination system" for them in 24x7 fabled "5-9's" 99.999% uptime, doing 64,000 transactions PER SECOND (compare London Stock Exchange using Linux @ 3,000 per second)

FUJIFILM GROUP: Tracks data for its imaging, information, & documentation for its products & services using Windows Server 2003 w/ a custom SAP solution on SQLServer 2005, achieving 99.999% uptime.

HILTON HOTELS: Manages 1.4 Billion records a day for customers in 1000's of their hotels worldwide - for 370,000 rooms & catering services forecasts (switching from 6 *NIX systems to 1 Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 clustered failover system using a data warehouse with 7 million rows & 99.998% uptime).

MEDITERRANEAN SHIPPING COMPANY: Manages & Tracks 7 million containers out of 116 countries daily using Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 in failover clusters with 99.999% uptime.

SWISS INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES: Serves 70 airport destinations worldwide, with 6,500 employees + 110 branch offices via Windows Server 2003 & Active Directory with 99.95% uptime (all while growing their business 30% per year). THEIR PREVIOUS LINUX SYSTEM COULD ONLY HANDLE 250 concurrent users - the Windows one handles over 500++ users concurrently/simultaneously!

UNILEVER: Global consumer good leader, migrated to mySAP on SQLServer 2005 + Windows Server 2003 & scaled UP their operations by over 200% & yet saved money + have 99.999% uptime!

MOTOROLA: Using System Management Server, Windows Server 2003 & SQLServer 2005 to conduct inventory of 65,000 desktops from a single location (e.g. for system updates corporate & worldwide).

NISSAN: Uses Windows Server 2003 to manage 50,000 employees' email & calendaring (w/ out VPN, & using Exchange Server 2003) for local AND remote + mobile users.

TOYOTA MOTOR SALES: Reduced the # of techs needed per dealership (1,000's worldwide) from 7, to 1 using Windows Server 2003.

SIEMENS: 420,000++ people, 130 business units over 190 countries managed in Windows Active Directory

REUTERS: Managing 3,000 servers worldwide @ customer sites internationally (using only 4 managers to do so, remotely).

DELL COMPUTER: Managing 130,000 servers & 100,000 PC's worldside using Windows Server 2003 + 40 million customers' data worldwide.

LEXIS NEXIS: Searches BILLIONS of documents each second delivering news, legal, & business information.

HSBC: Deploys System Center solutions to 15,000 Servers worldwide & 300,000 desktops using Windows Server 2003.

RAYOVAC: Chose Windows Server 2003 over Linux to manage their infrastructure - saving 1 million dollars estimated in software, staffing, & support costs.

JETTAINER/LUFTHANSA/U.S. AIRWAYS: managing shipping to 3,000 flights to 400 airports every day.

CONTINENTAL AIRLINES: Manages crew communication systems, log on/log off, schedules, & shifts using Windows Server 2008 worldwide.

JET BLUE AIRWAYS: Managing 12 million flights & their data annually + ticketing, finance, & personnel too.

TIMEX: Using Windows + Exchange Server for remote personnel & executives (for their ENTIRE workforce)

7 ELEVEN STORES: Chose Windows Server 2003 over Linux with a 20% TCO (total cost of ownership savings not only ESTIMATED, but actually REALIZED!), managing 1,000's of in-store servers via AD worldwide.

STATE OF ILLINOIS GOVERNMENT: Chose Windows Server 2003 over Linux to manage its ENTIRE infrastructure, state-wide, in 1,000's of offices remotely, back to central.

SWITZERLAND'S DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Managing 666 servers in 156 nations internationally.

REGAL ENTERTAINMENT GROUP: Used to run its POS concession & tickets systems @ 1,000's of theaters worldwide on Linux - Switching to Windows Server 2003 + Windows "Embedded" lowered their total cost of ownership (TCO), substantially as well as giving them better uptime.

CARNIVAL CRUISE LINES: Manages 1,000 shipboard & land based servers using Windows Server 2003 & Server Center.

QUALCOMM INCORPORATED: A wireless technology leader using Windows Server 2003 for managing 6,000 employees via an Active Directory Network in a Secured Network & Communications Infrastructure via Group Policies on AD, resulting in 33% less IT costs.

STARBUCKS: Managing 1,000's of store locations servers worldwide to HQ via Windows Server 2003 Active Directory.

RADIOSHACK: Upgrading from UNIX servers to Windows Server 2003 saved several millions in hardware, software, systems mgt., & support costs (chosen over LINUX in fact) - consolidated in-store servers by 50% from 10,200 to 5,100.

TOMMY HILFIGER: Using Windows Server 2003 they reduced their IT costs by 30%.

VIRGIN ENTERTAINMENT GROUP: Processes 400,000++ SKU's & 7.5 MILLION transactions per second analyzed in REAL TIME!

INFORMATION RESOURCES INC.: Manages over 123 terabytes of data providing consumer behaviour insights, advanced analytics, & decision analysis tools for consumer package goods, healthcare, retail, & financial sectors.

NcSOFT: Korean international gaming software company manages 400,000 users connecting to its game service SIMULTANEOUSLY using Windows Server 2003.

PING: Manages 400 end + servers & desktops for users via Windows Server 2003 Active Directory (& saved 40% less time vs. their old setup on Linux) from a single location.

TDC: Communications leader that is in 12 nations, using Windows Server 2003 to analyze data from 70 disparate (different) systems worldwide centralizing the data + analysis in SQLServer 2005.

GAMEWORKS: A high-tech gaming & restaurant chain, reduced helpdesk costs by 50% using Windows Server 2003 & AD Networks + Group Policies.

SHOP DIRECT: Shop Direct, operating under a number of brands including Littlewoods, Very, Woolworths, Marshall Ward, Kays and Great Universal, employs no less than 10,000 workers, 10% of whom work remotely. In addition, the Group also intends to migrate no less than 350 servers from Windows Server 2003 to Windows Server 2008 R2. The combination of Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 facilitates scenarios in which remote workers are no longer relying on Virtual Private Networks, but instead use the evolved DirectAccess technology. Another advantage of using Windows 7 Enterprise and ultimate is that the operating systems include BitLocker and BitLocker To Go encryption by default, which serves to protect the sensitive data of employees working remotely.

KBR/Kellogg Brown & Root: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.KBR.com [netcraft.com]

MICROSOFT THEMSELVES: The "shoe maker wears his own shoes" a sure mark of quality -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=microsoft.com [netcraft.com]

---

37++ MORE FORTUNE 100 COMPANIES RUNNING WINDOWS (OVER OTHER SOLUTIONS LIKE LINUX-UNIX etc./et al), from -> http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2010/full_list/ [cnn.com] [cnn.com] [cnn.com]

---

TRAVELERS INSURANCE: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.travelers.com [netcraft.com]

PHILIPP MORRIS: Runs their domain on IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pmi.com [netcraft.com]

ENTERPRISE HOLDINGS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.enterpriseholdings.com [netcraft.com]

TYSON FOODS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.tyson.com [netcraft.com]

HESS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.hess.com [netcraft.com]

SUNOCO: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.sunocoinc.com [netcraft.com]

HONEYWELL: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=honeywell.com [netcraft.com]

HUMANA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.humana.com [netcraft.com]

GENERAL DYNAMICS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=generaldynamics.com [netcraft.com]

STATE FARM INSURANCE: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.statefarm.com [netcraft.com]

COMCAST: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.comcast.com [netcraft.com]

DISNEY: Runs their domain on IIS -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=disney.go.com [netcraft.com]

SYSCO: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=sysco.com [netcraft.com]

KRAFT FOODS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.kraftfoodscompany.com [netcraft.com]

PEPSI: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pepsico.com [netcraft.com]

INTERNATIONAL HOLDINGS CORP.: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=intlfcstone.com [netcraft.com]

DOW CHEMICAL: Runs their domain on IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.dow.com [netcraft.com]

MARATHON OIL: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.marathon.com [netcraft.com]

UNITED TECHNOLOGIES: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.utc.com [netcraft.com]

WELLPOINT: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.wellpoint.com [netcraft.com]

COSTCO: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.costco.com [netcraft.com]

BRISTOL MYERS SQUIBB: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.bms.com [netcraft.com]

AMERISOURCE-BERGEN: Runs their domain on IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.amerisourcebergen.com [netcraft.com]

KROGER: Runs their domain on IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.kroger.com [netcraft.com]

UNITED HEALTH GROUP: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.unitedhealthgroup.com [netcraft.com]

MCKESSON: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.mckesson.com [netcraft.com]

BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.berkshirehathaway.com [netcraft.com]

CONOCO-PHILLIPS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.conocophillips.com [netcraft.com]

CHEVRON: Runs their domain on IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.chevron.com [netcraft.com]

EXXON-MOBIL: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.exxonmobil.com [netcraft.com]

PLAINS ALL-AMERICAN PIPELINE: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=paalp.com [netcraft.com]

INTL FCStone Inc.: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=intlfcstone.com [netcraft.com]

WELLPOINT: Runs their domain on IIS7 -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.wellpoint.com [netcraft.com]

CHRYSLER: Runs their domain on IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.chryslergroupllc.com [netcraft.com]

CHINA NATIONAL PETROLEUM: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.cnpc.com.cn [netcraft.com]

ENEL: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.enel.com [netcraft.com]

DOW JONES: Runs their domain on IIS (oddest mix I ever saw) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.dowjones.com [netcraft.com]

---

(2006 BEST COMPANIES TO WORK FOR/TOP 100 FORTUNE 100-500 COMPANIES TO WORK FOR -> http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/full_list/ [cnn.com]

64++ 2011 BEST COMPANIES TO WORK FOR/TOP 100 FORTUNE 100-500 COMPANIES TO WORK FOR -> http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/2011/full_list/ [cnn.com] )

"TOP 30 MEMBERS USING WINDOWS FROM BOTH 2006 & 2011 TOP 100 COMPANIES TO WORK FOR:"

---

VALERO: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=valero.com [netcraft.com]

GRIFFIN HOSPITAL: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=griffinhealth.org [netcraft.com]

VISION SERVICE PLAN/VSP: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=vsp.com [netcraft.com]

J.L. SMUCKER: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=smucker.com [netcraft.com]

S.C. JOHNSON: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=scjohnson.com [netcraft.com]

BOSTON CONSULTING GROUP: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=bcg.com [netcraft.com]

PLANTE & MORAN: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=plantemoran.com [netcraft.com]

HOMEBANC MORTGAGE: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=homebanc.com [netcraft.com]

REPUBLIC BANCORP: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=republicbancorp.com [netcraft.com]

BAPTIST HEALTHCARE: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=ebaptisthealthcare.org [netcraft.com]

ALSTON & BIRD: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=alston.com [netcraft.com]

KIMLEY-HORN & ASSOCIATES: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=kimley-horn.com [netcraft.com]

---

(OVER 1/2 of the TOP 30 (12 of 20 of the 2006 &/or 2011 pack) are using Windows & QUALCOMM #23 + STARBUCKS #29 exist already above using Windows in capacities besides running their websites!)

---

QUIKTRIP: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=quiktrip.com [netcraft.com]

DAVID WEEKELY HOMES: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=davidweekleyhomes.com [netcraft.com]

ROBERT W. BAIRD: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=rwbaird.com [netcraft.com]

ALCON LABS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=alconlabs.com [netcraft.com]

AMERICAN FIDELITY INSURANCE: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=afadvantage.com [netcraft.com]

TDINDUSTRIES: Runs their domain on IIS -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=tdindustries.com [netcraft.com]

MARRIOTT: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=marriot.com [netcraft.com]

CAMDEN PROPERTY TRUST: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=camdenliving.com [netcraft.com]

SCOTTRADE: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=scottrade.com [netcraft.com]

JM FAMILY ENTERPRISES: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=jmfamily.com [netcraft.com]

STEW LEONARDS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=stewleonards.com [netcraft.com]

METHODIST HEALTH: Runs their domain on IIS -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=methodisthealth.com [netcraft.com]

DPR CONSTRUCTION: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=dpr.com [netcraft.com]

UMPQUA BANK: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=umpquabank.com [netcraft.com]

BINGHAM LOANS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=bingham.com [netcraft.com]

NUSTAR ENERGY: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=nustarenergy.com [netcraft.com]

PAST TOP 30, into the 30-100 range now (of the "top 100 fortune 100 companies to work for" from CNN Money)

CHESAPEAKE ENERGY: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=chk.com [netcraft.com]

SOUTHERN OHIO MEDICAL CENTER: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.somc.org [netcraft.com]

PCL CONSTRUCTION: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pcl.com [netcraft.com]

AMERICAN FIDELITY ASSURANCE: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.afadvantage.com [netcraft.com]

BALFOUR BEATTY CONSTRUCTION: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.balfourbeattyus.com [netcraft.com]

DEVON ENERGY: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.devonenergy.com [netcraft.com]

BAPTIST HEALTH S. FLORIDA: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.baptisthealth.net [netcraft.com]

SHARED TECHNOLOGIES: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.sharedtechnologies.com [netcraft.com]

JOHNSON FINANCIAL GROUP: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.johnsonbank.com [netcraft.com]

NOVO NORDISK: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.novonordisk-us.com [netcraft.com]

BAKER DONELSON: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.bakerdonelson.com [netcraft.com]

PERKINS COLE: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.perkinscoie.com [netcraft.com]

MILLENIUM/TAKEDA ONCOLOGY CO.: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.millennium.com [netcraft.com]

AFLAC: Runs their domain on IIS -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.aflac.com [netcraft.com]

CHILDREN'S HEALTHCARE OF ATLANTA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.choa.org [netcraft.com]

OHIOHEALTH: Runs their domain on IIS -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ohiohealth.com [netcraft.com]

EOG Resources: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.eogresources.com [netcraft.com]

PUBLIX GROCERY: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.publix.com [netcraft.com]

ARKANSAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.archildrens.org [netcraft.com]

GILBANE: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.gilbaneco.com [netcraft.com]

ERNST & YOUNG: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ey.com [netcraft.com]

SRCTech: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.srcinc.com [netcraft.com]

CARMAX: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.carmax.com [netcraft.com]

KIMPTON HOTELS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.kimptonhotels.com [netcraft.com]

BRIGHT HORIZONS: Runs their domain on Windows/IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.brighthorizons.com [netcraft.com]

KPMG: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.us.kpmg.com [netcraft.com]

MERIDIAN HEALTH: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.meridianhealth.com [netcraft.com]

CH2M HILL: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ch2mhill.com [netcraft.com]

EVERETT CLINIC: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.everettclinic.com [netcraft.com]

MORNINGSTAR: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=corporate.morningstar.com [netcraft.com]

DARDEN RESTAURANTS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.darden.com [netcraft.com]

CERN: Runs their website on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.cern.ch [netcraft.com]

GOULDS PUMPS: (former Fortune 500 I worked for) Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.gouldspumps.com [netcraft.com]

AXA FINANCIAL: (former company I worked for) Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.axa.com [netcraft.com]

---

20++ UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT - STATES USING WINDOWS:

---

STATE OF CALIFORNIA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ca.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pa.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF TEXAS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.texas.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF CONNECTICUT: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ct.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF ALASKA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.alaska.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF FLORIDA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.florida.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF ILLINOIS: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.illinois.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF KENTUCKY: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.kentucky.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF MARYLAND: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.maryland.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF MONTANA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.montana.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF NEVADA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.nevada.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF NEW MEXICO: Runs their domain on Windows/IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.newmexico.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ncgov.com [netcraft.com]

STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=sc.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF OHIO: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ohio.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF SOUTH DAKOTA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=sd.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF WASHINGTON: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=washington.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.wv.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF WISCONSIN: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.wisconsin.gov [netcraft.com]

STATE OF WYOMING: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.wyoming.gov [netcraft.com]

---

90++ TOP RANKED UNIVERSITIES USING Windows (from -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/ [rankingsandreviews.com] [rankingsandreviews.com] [rankingsandreviews.com] )

---

Baylor University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.baylor.edu [netcraft.com]

Texas Tech University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ttu.edu [netcraft.com]

Temple University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.temple.edu [netcraft.com]

Drexel University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=drexel.edu [netcraft.com]

Pace University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pace.edu [netcraft.com]

Southern Methodist University (SMU): Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.smu.edu [netcraft.com]

Colorado State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.colostate.edu [netcraft.com]

Washington University in St. Louis: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.wustl.edu [netcraft.com]

Hofstra University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.hofstra.edu [netcraft.com]

DePaul University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.depaul.edu [netcraft.com]

Texas A&M University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.tamuk.edu [netcraft.com]

Clarkson University: -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.clarkson.edu [netcraft.com]

Fordham University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.fordham.edu [netcraft.com]

Texas Christian University (TCU): Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.tcu.edu [netcraft.com]

Florida A&M University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.famu.edu [netcraft.com]

St.John Fisher University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.sjfc.edu [netcraft.com]

St.John's University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.stjohns.edu [netcraft.com]

Kent State University of Ohio: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.kent.edu [netcraft.com]

Ball State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=cms.bsu.edu [netcraft.com]

Jackson State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.jsums.edu [netcraft.com]

North Dakota State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ndus.edu [netcraft.com]

South Carolina State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=scsu.edu [netcraft.com]

Northern Illinois University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.niu.edu [netcraft.com]

South Dakota State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=sdstate.edu [netcraft.com]

Michigan University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.cmich.edu [netcraft.com]

Indiana State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.indstate.edu [netcraft.com]

Indiana University of Pennsylvania: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.iup.edu [netcraft.com]

Texas Southern University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.tsu.edu [netcraft.com]

Northern Arizona University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=nau.edu [netcraft.com]

Tennessee State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.tnstate.edu [netcraft.com]

East Tennessee State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.etsu.edu [netcraft.com]

Oakland University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.oakland.edu [netcraft.com]

SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.esf.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Southern California (USC): Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.usc.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Pittsburg (Pitt): Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=pitt.edu [netcraft.com]

University of California (UCLA): Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ucsc.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Massachusetts (UMASS): Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=uml.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Texas @ El Paso: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.utep.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Texas @ San Antonio: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.utsa.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Tulsa: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.utulsa.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Ohio: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ohio.edu [netcraft.com]

University of North Carolina @ Charlotte: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.uncc.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Colorado @ Denver: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ucdenver.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Wyoming: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.uwyo.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Cincinnati: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.uc.edu [netcraft.com]

University of South Florida: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.usf.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Nevada @ Reno: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.unr.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Idaho: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.uidaho.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Missouri - Kansas City: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.umkc.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Montana: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.umt.edu [netcraft.com]

University of New Orleans: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.uno.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Northern Colorado: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.unco.edu [netcraft.com]

University of Toledo: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.utoledo.edu [netcraft.com]

University of the Pacific: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pacific.edu [netcraft.com]

University of St. Thomas: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.stthomas.edu [netcraft.com]

University of San Francisco: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.usfca.edu [netcraft.com]

Colorado Tech University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.coloradotech.edu [netcraft.com]

Wichita State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.wichita.edu [netcraft.com]

Wilmington University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=wilmu.edu [netcraft.com]

Widener University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.widener.edu [netcraft.com]

Catholic University of America: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.cua.edu [netcraft.com]

Clark University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.clarku.edu [netcraft.com]

Lynn University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.lynn.edu [netcraft.com]

Morgan State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.morgan.edu [netcraft.com]

Spalding University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=spalding.edu [netcraft.com]

Biola University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.biola.edu [netcraft.com]

Edgewood College: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=edgewood.edu [netcraft.com]

Immaculata University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.immaculata.edu [netcraft.com]

American University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.american.edu [netcraft.com]

Pepperdine University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pepperdine.edu [netcraft.com]

Barry University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.barry.edu [netcraft.com]

Benedictine University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ben.edu [netcraft.com]

Cardinal Stritch University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.stritch.edu [netcraft.com]

Bowie State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.bowiestate.edu [netcraft.com]

Texas Women's University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=twu.edu [netcraft.com]

Our Lady of the Lake University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ollusa.edu [netcraft.com]

Clark Atlanta University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.cau.edu [netcraft.com]

Trinity International University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.tiu.edu [netcraft.com]

Trevecca University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.trevecca.edu [netcraft.com]

Alliant International University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.alliant.edu [netcraft.com]

California Institute of Integral Studies: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ciis.edu [netcraft.com]

Capella University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.capella.edu [netcraft.com]

National-Louis University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.nl.edu [netcraft.com]

North Central Un/bb/b Runs their domain on Windows -iversity: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ncu.edu [netcraft.com]

Trident University International: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.trident.edu [netcraft.com]

Union Institute and University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.myunion.edu [netcraft.com]

Walden University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.waldenu.edu [netcraft.com]

New School NYU: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.newschool.edu [netcraft.com]

Yeshiva University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.yu.edu [netcraft.com]

(90 of the 200 "top 50" run Windows for their domain)

---

TOP 50/200++ RANKED NORTHERN REGIONAL UNIVERSITIES USING Windows (from -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-colleges-north [rankingsandreviews.com] [rankingsandreviews.com] [rankingsandreviews.com] )

---

LeMoyne College: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.lemoyne.edu [netcraft.com]

Loyola University Maryland: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.loyola.edu [netcraft.com]

Providence College: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.providence.edu [netcraft.com]

Alfred University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=alfred.edu [netcraft.com]

Canisius College: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.canisius.edu [netcraft.com]

Bentley University: Runs their domain on IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.bentley.edu [netcraft.com]

Scranton University: Runs their domain on IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.scranton.edu [netcraft.com]

Quinnipiac University: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.quinnipiac.edu [netcraft.com]

Emerson College: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.emerson.edu [netcraft.com]

Mount St. Mary's University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.msmary.edu [netcraft.com]

Hood College: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.hood.edu [netcraft.com]

Nazareth College: Runs their domain on IIS (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.naz.edu [netcraft.com]

Iona College: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.iona.edu [netcraft.com]

SUNY - New Paltz: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.newpaltz.edu [netcraft.com]

Notre Dame of Maryland University: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ndm.edu [netcraft.com]

- APK

Re:Why bother when windows works better? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884111)

Thank you, Mr. Microsoft Employee.

Re:Why bother when windows works better? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884121)

This post wasn't made by APK, who instead keeps on topic. Instead it is by an offtopic troll that keeps trying to put words in APK's mouth. He's even admitted to not taking his meds just the other day:

I forgot to take my psycho meds. I just did and am sane again. Apologies for going off topic trolling apk and I can't disprove his points. by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 04, @11:16AMhttp://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3024445&cid=40877673 [slashdot.org] .

And yet again at, a second time he forgot to take his meds:

Apology for not taking my meds. I admit apk is right and that I am an off topic troll who has issues since apk has gotten the best of me so many times online I have to hide under pure anonymous coward posts off topic the entire time. I am no man, and am truly an anonymous wuss.by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 04, @11:14AM http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3024445&cid=40877667 [slashdot.org]

He can't tell the difference between transactions and rows in a database, or disprove any facts http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3024445&cid=40867985 [slashdot.org]

Just as apk predicted (yet again) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884131)

Just as APK predicted an unjust down mod from ac troll on his post that put out facts and the ac troll blundered on transactions versus rows as well as omitting power redudancy with trying to put words in apk's mouth he never said:

when I catch him in a mistake? He'll unjustly downmod my posts when he fails... call it a prediction here too on that note! from http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3024445&cid=40869197 [slashdot.org]

Jeez, not ANOTHER question.... (0)

macraig (621737) | about 2 years ago | (#40884187)

This recent and growing editor obsession with interrogatory posts is getting tiresome. I have a theory about why they're suddenly becoming so predominant: Slashdot is dying, losing popularity, and in an attempt to rekindle more participation the editors are recasting everything as interrogatory.

Re:Jeez, not ANOTHER question.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884197)

Someone saying slashdot is dying. That's original. Oh, wait, no. That's been going on for at least 10 years.

Android. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884209)

It's Linux, it's undergone huge growth in gaming, it's a easier sell to people than Linux and they understand the concept of an integrated app store. Oh it's getting x86 support, and support for desktop level graphics hardware would not be hard, it also has a clean API without a decade of legacy cruft. It's only been available to the public for a few years but has five times as many applications available in it's official software repository than any distro, and it's clawing it's way in to larger and larger gadgets. Unless valve wants to cozy up to Canonical or something then I'm not sure that basing such a distro on a desktop OS is the best solution. Valve could do it's own Ouya.

Of course, I have to say no. (1)

toygeek (473120) | about 2 years ago | (#40884217)

Its the law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_Law_of_Headlines [wikipedia.org]

Should Valve advance Linux gaming by creating a distro optimized for it? sure, why not. The world needs more distros. Besides, I hear that UbuFedorIanWare is getting behind on their latest release.

Yet another Profound Linux Article (0)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#40884233)

This is probably one of the dumber Ask Slashdots I've seen, and for a couple reasons:

- It feeds directly into the flamewar-inciting platform war that seems to dominate discussions these days. Case in point, the iteration of the Apple-fanboy inspired "fragmentation" bullshit.
- Valve works on games and a store, not OSes. Maintaining one entirely on the inside is pointless and gains them nothing they can't get by working closely with an existing distro vendor (namely, Canonical.) Hell even Nokia acknowledged that maintaining a core OS entirely inside was silly as the work was already being done, which is one reason they had plans to migrate to MeeGo (thus pushing a ton of core development off on Intel.)

Valve will work with Canonical to make Steam and their own games work well on it. Maybe others in the future, but for now they're going to target the one that's getting the most attention from users and OEMs. Any comments that suggest other distros even matter at this point are either foolish or deliberately inciteful.

Betteridges Law.. (0)

detain (687995) | about 2 years ago | (#40884279)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_Law_of_Headlines [wikipedia.org] They are in the business of gaming, and trying to take on all the responsibilities associated with maintaining a distro is just stupid. Slow news day.

Re:Betteridges Law.. (1)

bky1701 (979071) | about 2 years ago | (#40884299)

Tell that to Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Apple, Google....

There are many reasons for a large company to want to control its own platform. None of the major distros are going to sign up to take marching orders from Valve, which is what anyone paying attention ought to expect. That leaves them either being just another software developer, or starting a distro to leverage the whole OS.

Re:Betteridges Law.. (1)

detain (687995) | about 2 years ago | (#40884431)

They have no need to control a gaming platform like those companies. As they are going for multi-platform (they already have all their content on windows) the advantages of a single closed platform become a moot point. Maintaining a linux distribution requires a ton of money for very little payoff. Security updates alone require alot of work not to mention keeping your platform updated with new hardware. Gaming systems like you are talking about run on a single hardware set and a minimalistic set of applications loaded on the system. Why would valve go away from its current model of making games that work on a variety of hardware and systems.

Consensus = valve will die? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884315)

People are saying Windows 8 will be bad for gaming which remains to be seen.

Valve can't do an OS because they will be sued out of existence by Microsoft - who sues everybody that does an OS. (because they invented the OS obviously)

Valve have chosen the right path, hedge against possible Windows flakiness by doing Steam for Mac and soon Ubuntu.

Having just installed Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, I can tell you Steam installs ontop of WINE without a single glitch.

However when I try to play Team Fortress 2 I get instability, slow FPS, the entire OS becomes flakey the graphics go flakey in the OS.

So my point is gaming on Linux is going to be a massive challenge and arguably one that should not be undertaken by Valve.

The cost of trying to resolve the many, many bugs involved in gaming on Linux with various bits of hardware versus the benefit or progress Valve can make to resolve those issues I think they will soon realize they have undertaken an impossible task.

You really only have 2 choices for PC gaming.

Microsoft Windows & Apple OS X.

If you don't like one you must use the other one. There is no viable third option. I hate Microsoft, and Apple over charge hundreds of dollars.

It's a choice between a turd sandwich or a giant douche.

But Linux simply never will be a viable candidate for the majority of people.

Or as Chris Pirillo says All operating systems suck.

Re:Consensus = valve will die? (Linux will die!) (0)

burni2 (1643061) | about 2 years ago | (#40884479)

No, to the contrary: Linux will die !

But will then be reanimated by some caring loving zealots, these zealots will wander out into the world. When they reach the golden city of "Shrandunbar", they will dissolve after a brutal and bloody flame war(really bloody!). Then there will be 2 ways of believe, but beware the devil lurks around the corner. He the rich benefactor will then create a new believe of Hakuna Matata and will try to bring Unity but this will lead to dispare, because of the sect of the cross("X") crucifying everyone of no believe. Then there would be another saviour they are called the Borg, they will virtualize you, interpret you and sell you privacy to the highest bidder, and they will use your unencrypted chit chatter for their cube formed space ships to navigate. This will be called Borgdroid, BorgMaps, Borgleing, and after that we will be assimilated. And Linux will be dead again!

And after this war is over, Metrosexuality will be the norm, you will try to buy a classic desktop but the Metroman accuses you of sexual harrassment, and you will be re-educated.

ugh (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884333)

Well, if they really wanted to create one, sure go right ahead. We don't need it though. What we do need is for Valve to use it's clout to beat the daylights out of Nvidia and AMD/ATI and any other company like them who are either not making linux/bsd drivers, not providing proper documentation or sufficient api code, or just plain "half-assing" it. There should not be much reason why the linux/bsd driver in many cases can be several revisions behind the windows driver, sometimes lagging behind by a year or more... sometimes less.

We need them to kick these companies in the ass until we start seeing some major improvement in the graphical system and proprietary(or hopefully open source, but hell I'll deal with proprietary) drivers. This will allow alternative systems or distros to have a solid base upon which games can run fast and smooth. As long as we can get that I'll be happy and valve can do it's own distro. I would not like, however if they made it so that it was the only distro capable of running whatever new drivers or code needed to become a gaming powerhouse.

all new developments should be pushed back up to the rest of the community. even if the drivers stay proprietary blobs. just make them work.

"valve linux" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884351)

I can see both sides of a discussion about this. A single platform they support would make it easier to test their product. But, it would also also hurt Linux gaming overall. What competitor is going to want to build their games for Valve Linux? Does any distro want to support dual booting with Valve Linux to run their game? And wouldn't it make more sense for Valve to focus on Steam's performance vs maintaining a whole distribution? There are several very usable desktop versions of Linux already released; wrapping Steam's installer as both an rpm and a deb or as posix sh script tarball with a couple "if this then do that" statements wouldn't be overly burdonsome. Any package manager out there can report is proper deps are installed, and if Steam needed an old verions of something, simply package it with it and stick it in /usr/local or /opt. Fragmenting Linux further won't help anyone.

Wont help anything... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884367)

This would in turn not be another distro, it would turn the system into an appliance.
Package every library you system needs in itself. Do not rely on system package.
Then all that needs to be installed is a kernel, graphics and basic stuff like that.

This will drive me insane if they rely on a specific version of libpng, libsvg, or libsdl...

If you package the thing correctly, you won't have to worry about what distro you are on, or the version of soft installed in that distro.

too many distros allready (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40884411)

If the problem is that there are too many different distros and no standards, it does not help to create more.

There is already such a thing. (5, Insightful)

DerFlob (1822488) | about 2 years ago | (#40884473)

There is already such a thing. It's called Windows. I want Steam on _my_ installation of whatever distro I prefer. If I had to reboot whenever I want to play, it would negate the advantages of having Steam on Linux (for me), because I already do it this way with Linux & Windows.

As a Mac user and Windows gamer (2)

AHuxley (892839) | about 2 years ago | (#40884505)

My past wasted on waiting for expensive Mac 'ports' and now seeing Windows 8 GUI efforts -
All I can say is yes do this distro thing.
Apple showed what a weak opengl effort, slow gpu hardware support can do to great code.
MS shows what a desktop split by the needs of MS console and MS tablets can do.
A distro allows Valve to break free from the 'no good gpu for you' of an Apple or the X box first demands of a M$ desperate for branding locked onto very old hardware.
One big encrypted, ad serving, updating/healing, easy to back up download is a very positive step.
A virtual console for your PC on a dynamic, free OS. Free of Apple and free of MS.

bleh. whatever. (2)

atlasdropperofworlds (888683) | about 2 years ago | (#40884521)

Just because valve and blizzard aren't fans of windows 8, doesn't mean that suddenly windows is going to fall off the map for gamers. They will just continue to use Win7, and wait until Win9. The problem valve/blizzard have is that damned win8 app store, which could possibly erode their business over time.

Personally, I think win8 is fine, but the start screen is pretty bad on the desktop. The rest of the OS has good things going on, good enough for me to forgive the metro crap.

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