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Free Software PS2 Emulator PCSX2 Hits 1.0

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the hurd-feeling-lonier-by-the-week dept.

Emulation (Games) 202

An anonymous reader writes with an excerpt from geek.net on the release of PCSX2, a GPLed emulator for the PS2: "PCSX2 is a free PS2 emulator for the PC that has been in development since the year 2000 and managed to reach version 1.0 last week. As an emulator it's an impressive piece of work, boasting compatibility with over 73 percent of games, which is some 1,697 titles. It can offer up graphics beyond what the original hardware was capable of, achieving resolutions up to 4096 x 4096 with anti-aliasing and texture filtering. You can save games, record video as you play, use a range of controllers, and even adjust game speed if you so wish. Of course, you'll need a fast machine to run PS2 games at a decent speed, but the spec is still reasonable. It's recommended you have at least a Core 2 Duo running at 3.2GHz, or a Core i5 at 2.66GHz+. As for graphics cards, a GeForce 9600GT or Radeon HD 4750 is desirable." Grab it while it's hot (official binaries and source). Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be packaged for any GNU/Linux distros (Debian has packages of the predecessor to PCSX2, PCSX: Reloaded which, naturally, emulated the Playstation).

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I really want to (1)

mrstrano (1381875) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900031)

buy a copy of an old Winning Eleven and play it on my laptop now.

Re:I really want to (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900103)

I'm pretty sure there are PC versions of Winning Eleven (or rather Pro Evolution Soccer as it's called outside of Japan). No need for emulators.

Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900061)

PCSX2 is only really usable with the GSDX GPU plugin, which as the name implies, uses DirectX. Although it can run under Linux in software rendering mode.

On Linux and Mac, you're stuck with either poor graphics emulation (bad emulation quality, breakage, glitches, poor performance) with the GL plugin, or good but non-accelerated graphics emulation with GSDX.

It's also a 32-bit only app and they don't even support building it in 64-bit distros (even though it'd only take a few buildsystem fixes to actually make it build in 32-bit mode fine, much like Wine). This is why distros don't ship it.

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900109)

Fix it yourself then, bum. Don't whine if you aren't submitting patches. The developers don't owe you shit as they are giving this to you for free.

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900273)

Mod parent up. Fuck these whining leeches.

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900551)

They owe me the time I wasted fucking around with their shit trying to make it useful.

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (4, Funny)

AmazingRuss (555076) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900971)

But it's open! It's free! You want it to WORK too? Ingrate!

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900585)

Whining is bad, but what is wrong with informing other people about the limitations of the software, before they waste time on trying to use it?

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900693)

Lots. Stop being a bum.

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901015)

+1

Although GGP had a tone of complaint which seems to have set everyone off, their post is by far the most informative here. 73% compatability is extremely far from 73% of games emulated perfectly on a high-spec Linux machine. You could easily get that with SNES but would be surprised to see the same for anything more recent.

Still, great work PCSX2 team! I'm very much into emulation and, while I haven't used Windows in over a decade and probably never will use it, consider your work a fantastic boost to human wealth. I almost wish I had Paypal so I could donate (but not enough to open an Paypal account, I hope you understand).

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901057)

This is how open source works

Publisher: we have been dragging nuts working on software using over decade old code that is now obsolete
User: but XYZ doesnt work
Publisher:fuck you, fix it for us, were too busy acting like Jesus now since we actually tried to produce something
Community: That sucks, time to move on
Freetards: your a bum how dare you have some input on gimpy software, dont whine if your not fixing other peoples code, I know you dont have a life or any other projects, I sure as fuck dont ... but I cant code anyway so I am going to go act as FOSS defender on slashdot (breathes heavily from mouth)

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901241)

Geez, if you don't like other people's comments, then DON'T READ THEM!

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901269)

Yep, you should take your own advice.

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901321)

I am sorry, but I just downloaded and it is POS, they cannot even get the file permission correct. Lame is Lame and is inexcusable. Will have to either compile myself (which is also the crappiest build system I have seen). or wait for my distro to compile it.

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901453)

Fuck you, shit head.

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (4, Insightful)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901483)

He wasnt whining, he was posting what looked to be very constructive criticism.

Or is the new FOSS thing that you are simply not allowed anything other than worship of any project you have not contributed to? Perhaps we should all pretend that Thunderbird is the best mail client ever made, since the majority of us have never contributed it it?

Honestly, with no bugs (complaints!) opened by the users, Im not sure how these projects would improve, but who am I to comment.

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (1)

digitalderbs (718388) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900321)

I guess we'll have to wait for version 2.0.

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900753)

Ironic since the only plugin that will play Tokyo Extreme Racer Zero is the GL one. Apparently despite this bug existing for 5ish years they still haven't managed to fix the DX plugin so it doesn't hang after the intro movies on this game (I mean completely hang, as in you have to end task to even get the game to terminate.)

Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks (0)

Travelsonic (870859) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901067)

Pointing out a limitation != whining. People should learn what a word means before trying to be an asshole while misusing it.

My media PC is going to be so awesome. (1)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900069)

I've paired PS3 controls with Linux before. The latest Ubuntu release is making it difficult, but nothing I can't overcome.

Between the sheer smoothness and beauty of XBMC, it's ability to launch NES, SNES, Sega and other emulators as well as native Linux games grabbing a couple of PS3 controls on a PC tucked away out of sight replaces what used to be a gianormous wiring mess connected to every TV.

Re:My media PC is going to be so awesome. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900157)

I really liked doing this too, the ds3 controllers are superb, and especially good over bluetooth. One annoying thing was that none of the patches I have found worked for me after bluez 4.96. But supposedly some guy is working on some patches that might end up in the official bluez git, so hopefully things will get squared away by then.

Re:My media PC is going to be so awesome. (1)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900651)

I don't know why the patches weren't in BlueZ official a long time ago. Even Apple added their version in Snow Leopard. Adding them to BlueZ more or less kills the open source project that donated the code, but that's not a bad thing in this case.

Re:My media PC is going to be so awesome. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900939)

I was reading some of the e-mails about it and I think they were rejected because it requires linking to udev. So now the guy working on the patches needs to convert the code into some sort of "user plugin" format... I dunno. The progress on this new plugin is fairly slow too because he does not seem to be familiar with the bluez code base at all. :(

Took yer time (1, Funny)

XsCode (639295) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900115)

It didn't take that long to design, build and send a rover to mars!

Re:Took yer time (5, Funny)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900137)

Yeah, but NASA didn't have to deal with Sony's BS.

Can it play from the disc? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900147)

I've got a ton of PS2 games I'd like to take for a spin, this might well be the first emulator that I'd use for something other than piracy.

Re:Can it play from the disc? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900169)

I'm not exactly sure, I lost all my PS2 games :(
It's predecessor would play from the disc though. And since you have the discs you could rip them yourself :)

Re:Can it play from the disc? (4, Informative)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900181)

Yes, it can (because PS2 disks, thankfully and unlike e.g. Wii ones, are readable as-is on a PC).

Making an image is probably a good plan though, if only for the reduced seek times.

Re:Can it play from the disc? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900625)

I know this is slightly off topic but what about PS1 disks? I mean, as far as I know, they follow the yellow book standard (or maybe the XA extension of it). Can standard drives read those as well (maybe in a raw mode)?

Re:Can it play from the disc? (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900831)

I've had no problems playing PS1 games disk-in-drive. Granted, sometimes seek times were atrocious (doesn't take long to spin up to the slow speed the original hardware had, but ramping up and back down from 52x drives you nuts). But reading itself worked.

To save my drive and sanity though I would rip the ISO file and mount that. Gets rid of all the spinup times etc.

Re:Can it play from the disc? (1)

darkfeline (1890882) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900731)

Yes, it can (because PS2 disks, thankfully and unlike e.g. Wii ones, are readable as-is on a PC).

Making an image is probably a good plan though, if only for the reduced seek times.

Which may or may not be legal, depending on who you ask, where you live, what forums you frequent, and how much money you have.

Re:Can it play from the disc? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900797)

Making an image of YOUR disc is 100% legal whoever you ask, wherever you live and in forums where people have a brain :P

Re:Can it play from the disc? (1)

Unknown Lamer (78415) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901641)

Copyright only covers distribution.

Re:Can it play from the disc? (5, Informative)

JDG1980 (2438906) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900193)

Yes, PCSX2 can play from the original disc and you do not need any special hardware to do that. However, ripping your disc to an ISO is a better choice because this pretty much does away with access times.

Re:Can it play from the disc? (2)

Megane (129182) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900491)

This. I seriously tried to play a game right off the disc. But normal PC DVD-ROM drives like to spin down, which means the game stops until it spins up again. And as a bonus, playing from a rip somehow improved the frame rate in general.

Re:Can it play from the disc? (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900235)

Discs suck. I don't even use discs on a real PS2.

Gonna check it out again (4, Interesting)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900199)

I tried using it on my old computer (Core 2 Duo @ 2.26GHz, GeForce 9600), and it didn't run at all well. Primarily seemed to be the sound - sound disabled, it ran at about full speed, but with sound it ran around 5fps. Changing video settings didn't seem to affect it - I got 5fps at 16x MSAA and 5fps at 0x AA.

That computer died a while back, and I'm on a new, more powerful one now (Core i7 @ 2.3GHz, GeForce 660), so I might try this out sometime, see if I can handle it now.

Re:Gonna check it out again (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900357)

Thank you. Please keep us updated.

Re:Gonna check it out again (4, Insightful)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900851)

Check your sound sync settings. You've got it slaved to the GPU or CPU. While that keeps things perfectly timed, it really eats performance as you know.

I've always admired peoples' commitment (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900209)

I've always admired peoples' commitment to creating emulators for gaming platforms. Years down the track they're often the only platform left to play, unless of course the game publisher decides to 're-release' an old title with an inbuilt emulator for a nominal fee.

As time goes on and as subsequent generations of consoles become more complicated in both their hardware and embedded operating systems, emulating them will become increasingly difficult. I don't know how long it can last.

Hopefully console manufacturers will shy away from overcomplicated designs as they have been quite costly for them in the current generation of consoles, but this is probably wishful thinking.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (4, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900277)

As time goes on and as subsequent generations of consoles become more complicated in both their hardware and embedded operating systems, emulating them will become increasingly difficult. I don't know how long it can last.

I think it's already happened. There's not a decent Xbox emulator yet, and it's based on pretty typical x86 hardware.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900371)

The issue isn't the hardware it's the custom version of the NT kernel it runs and the rest of the OS environment.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900983)

What's that got to do with emulation? Provide the hardware emulator a disc image of the hard disk and let it run the real thing. Perfectly legal for me to dump the 4gb hard disk image in my actual xbox and run it on an emulator for interoperability purposes. Should be much easier to do it that way than to reimplement the Xbox OS.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901323)

Absolutely. I am willing to provide such for $10M USD up front, plus a lucrative contract that guarantees my employment over the next 5 years to provide you such a service/product

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901319)

That isn't because it would be difficult to do, it's because nobody really cares about making an Xbox emulator.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900283)

well as consoles become more complex so do computers and there operating sytems which off sets the it. this will probably continue on like this for a very long time.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (4, Interesting)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900317)

There's one upside to newer console generations though: as consoles get more complicated, developers stick to APIs and don't do as much register-level fiddling or depending on things like hardware timing. That means that it's easier to perform higher-level emulation of newer consoles (as opposed to the cycle-accurate emulation often required to get good results for older 8-bit and 16-bit machines) and still have things work. Newer consoles are also more similar to a PC, which simplifies emulation.

For example, the Dolphin GC/Wii emulator managed to get pretty accurate graphics emulation in less time than PCSX2 because the GC/Wii's GPU is a lot saner and has a model that is relatively easy to map to OpenGL/DX, unlike the PS2's GPU and vector units which are horribly painful to emulate. The 360's and PS3's and WiiU's GPUs are pretty much bog-standard PC GPUs (which does mean they will be more complex to implement full emulation for, but at least it will map more easily onto standard graphics APIs). The higher-level software frameworks also make it easier to use high-level emulation for chunks of the system - e.g. Dolphin doesn't emulate the Starlet ARM CPU of the Wii, but instead performs high-level emulation of its APIs. Therefore, it gets away without emulating the USB, SD, WiFi, flash, and other hardware, which greatly simplifies the implementation and makes it more user-friendly.

It'll be challenging, but it's not an entirely dark future.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901053)

Yes, but if they're going to do that, then what's the point of using a console?

At that point you might as well just target your software to OSX or your own Linux distro and throw in a proper controller. The power of consoles always used to be that they had special registers that handle things and that you could use them in interesting ways that might well be unanticipated by the folks developing the hardware. I think the Pitfall post mortem was particularly interesting in that regard.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901339)

Yes, but if they're going to do that, then what's the point of using a console?

I stick in my disc and feel good that it works

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (2)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900447)

Hopefully console manufacturers will shy away from overcomplicated designs as they have been quite costly for them in the current generation of consoles, but this is probably wishful thinking.

Well, it was said a while back that Sony aren't planning on investing as much in the PS4 [industrygamers.com] as they did on the PS3.

I don't remember how much it was supposed to have been that Sony spent developing the PS3 but it was something absolutely horrendous, and I suspect that whatever the benefits of its much hyped custom chips were, it probably didn't offset what they cost to develop or the benefit they provided. Even the cost of subsidising the early PS3s to get market share apparently cost Sony several billion (and they were still expensive).

Yeah, I know that the PS3 is doing better now, probably due to the cost being reduced, but are they still in the red on the project overall?

Anyway, bottom line is that- far moreso in the current economic climate than in 2006- Sony probably realise that they shouldn't- and couldn't- follow that path again, and will probably go for a (relatively) more off-the-shelf XBoxy approach.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (1)

frosty_tsm (933163) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900527)

I don't remember how much it was supposed to have been that Sony spent developing the PS3 but it was something absolutely horrendous, and I suspect that whatever the benefits of its much hyped custom chips were, it probably didn't offset what they cost to develop or the benefit they provided. Even the cost of subsidising the early PS3s to get market share apparently cost Sony several billion (and they were still expensive).

The Cell chips were a bad idea. Shiny, fancy, but most of the horsepower sits idle since the SPUs are nearly impossible to fully utilize (small cache per SPU, large number of them). Throw in one or two quad-cores with hyper-threading, a high-end GPU and some memory and call it a day.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900509)

As time goes on and as subsequent generations of consoles become more complicated in both their hardware and embedded operating systems, emulating them will become increasingly difficult. I don't know how long it can last.

Another point too is computers just aren't getting faster like they used to. I mean what kind of hardware would it take to emulate a PS3 or XBox 360? And when their successors come out, how long will we have to wait for computers to surpass those enough for emulation to be practical speedwise?

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900781)

Another point too is computers just aren't getting faster like they used to. I mean what kind of hardware would it take to emulate a PS3 or XBox 360?

You're saying that the PS3 and XBox are more powerful than my i7 PC?

Then why do PC versions of cross-platform games look and perform so much better on my PC? Like Arkham Asylum, COD4, etc.

I have a hard time believing that an 8 year old XBox or PS3 is more powerful than a current gaming PC.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900815)

You're saying that the PS3 and XBox are more powerful than my i7 PC?

No, you misunderstand. I'm saying emulating them would take a ton of computer power. To emulate the Super Nintendo, you need an x86 PC that's is multiple orders of magnitude more power than the little 16-bit 65c816 Ricoh 5A22 3.58 MHz processor the thing has. Now scale that up to PS3 and XBox 360 standards. Now imagine the next generation after that. At some point due to just computers not scaling up in speed like they used to and consoles reaching parity, it stands to reason that emulation will be extraordinarily difficult to do at speed.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901039)

low level, yes.. that's already the case.. high level is much easier, especially with recompilers and api wrapping.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901087)

You don't really need to emulate consoles much anymore. They are getting closer and closer to regular old PCs and the games don't rely so much on the bare metal tricks to accomplish things. Therefore, all you really need is some sort of compatibility layer and checks to keep the timing correct. Just look at the fact that Wii and Gamecube "emulation" is in many cases more mature than N64 emulation. Really, if it weren't for the ARM chip in the Wii and the relative lack of interest in the Gamecube, I think Dolphin would blow the rest out of the water.

Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment (1)

darkfeline (1890882) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900773)

The main advantages of consoles are: cheaper hardware when mass-produced, and a standard API/hardware platform for ease of development. However, this leads to the copyright/platform compatibility/obselesence problems you're talking about. Now that VM technology is pretty robust, there's actually a way to make consoles obsolete. Create a freeware, opensource VM API a la Java (except BETTER, god damn), and have standard PC builds that manufacturers use (e.g. Gaming PC 100 Model A, Model B, Model C, at different price points and hardware levels). Devs can write games with this fictional VM, and publish specs like "High quality on Models B and C, low quality on Models A". Of course, Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony will fight to keep their little niches, but hopefully game devs, gamers, PC manufacturers will unite to make this happen.

i prefer my *real* PS2. (1, Interesting)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900243)

Why would I want to use an emulator on the classic windows game box I have in the living room, when I have the genuine article in there already?

I have a PS2 Fat, with the network module, a 500gb IDE drive stuck in the expansion bay, and a magic memory card in card slot 1.

FreeMCBoot is free. It exploits a little known feature in fat PS2s that allow it to boot from the memory card (this was used for japanese kareoke software), which gives me access to homebrew, and HD loader, OpenHDLoader, and USB advance.

Between the 3, I no longer need to use the actual DVD disc drive to play my games, and the console will last almost forever in this state.

I can play my PS2 games on the actual PS2, and have the convenience of picking the game I want to play without leaving the couch. It runs at full speed, because it is running on the native hardware.

Why would I use an emulator? FreeMCBoot is free. Give me a memory card, and I can make it magic for you too. Not problems. I did it for several friends. You can make one yourself if you have skillz disc swapping or have an action replay disc. If you don't, there is a community who will cook your card for you for free.

Not belittling PCSX2 or anything: for people that ditched their old console, it offers a good nostalgia fix, and also serves as a code base for emulators running on other consoles, (like the PS3, now that it is hopelessly smashed security wise.) That is *always* a good thing.

But I still prefer the real thing.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (2)

Junta (36770) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900353)

For one, a modern PC can render the PS2 content at higher resolutions. Sure, the geometric complexity is the same, but the jaggedness is much much better. Also, the HDLoader stuff can be a bit fickle and certainly kludgier to navigate than on a PC.

Finally, the ability to use PS3 bluetooth controllers is nice.

(Note, I don't actually do PCSX2, but this is the sort of thing I get out of other emulators, PCSX2 would be set up too if their Linux support was actually serviceable.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (0)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900415)

No contest on the higher resolution rendering. The PS2 just doesn't have the guts to push that kind of resolution. (But then again, the TV is unlikely to drive higher than 1080p anyway. If you can afford an actual computer monitor in the 40inch and larger LCD category, and can drive at high PC resolutions, you have way more money than I do.)

The wireless controller support is nice, again no real contest. (Though the wired experience is *part* of the nostalgia.)

As for HDLoader being kludgy and buggy-- you should check out the open loader. It has support for both HDLoader and USBAdvance disc dumps, and has much better game support than both.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

luncheon (1121123) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901345)

The Open PS2 Loader also supports SMB shares, and memory card emulation.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900383)

Because you can't upscale them to 1920x1080 (or higher if you like) and patching them to wide screen (REAL wide screen, there are even patches for 'native' WS games done properly) making your old PS2 games look like their HD remakes :)
Also, being able to play with any controller/mouse your PC can handle, save states allowing you to save anywhere and more stuff. Check out the official youtube channel for some very high quality videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/PCSX2team

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900401)

Sure. But in 20 years, enough of the capacitors in enough of the PS/2s will have leaked that yours will stop working, and you won't be able to find any others. And *then*, you'll be all over getting your nostalgia fix from emulators - but the emulators won't work the way you'd prefer, because you didn't get involved back when people who worked on the platform were still around to implement fixes and whatnot.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (0)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900473)

In 20 years, the console will be 40 years old almost.

The IDE drive will have failed before then!

Sure, I could probably use a laptop sata drive with an IDE adaptor and a special power cable with the network module instead, but getting that to fit in the expansion bay would be hard.

Again, if you note, I wasn't belittling PCSX2. I think it is awesome, but I prefer to keep my console gaming on consoles. Call me old fashioned. I play old NES games using FCEMU on my hacked Wii for instance, using the classic controller. I could do that if the FCEMU codebase had not existed. Kudos to EMU developers. However, I still would prefer to dig out an old NES if possible. My NES died from a broken card slot and dead wallwart years ago. I would still use it if I could.

The PS2 is still sufficiently young as a console that people may well still have them. I have one still, and so to many people I know. I cooked some magic memory cards for them, and now they are more convenient. (One friend gave his memory card equipped console to his kid as an emulation box for classic games, since freemcboot let's you run emulators easly from the menu.)

The question was more "I still have the console, why not use it?" Rather than any implied "emulators suck.". Emulators DO NOT suck. They are awesome. Always. The very idea is awesome.

Just that for nostalgia, I think its better to have the real thing.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900501)

>>>Why would I want to use an emulator on the classic windows game box I have in the living room, when I have the genuine article in there already?

Because no console lasts forever. My original Atari console croaked. Ditto my Commodore 64 (not a console but it's not good for much else but NES-style gaming). I did manage to buy used models but they didn't last long either.

These units lasted ~30 years but I bet the moving parts in a CD console won't last as long. It's nice to have Emulators so you can keep playing favorite Atari, C64, Super NES, Sega Genesis, PS1/2, N64 games long after the hardware goes extinct.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901689)

I got a working C64. Just not the patience to wait 15 minutes for a game to load.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

rjr162 (69736) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900503)

I still have my fat ps2 with the dsm (dms? I forget now) 4 mod chip with toxic os.
Tried to sell it years ago on eBay but they kept pulling the ad any time I mentioned home brew, mod chip, toxic os, etc

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (2)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900537)

That is because the modchip is associated with the dreaded spectre of "piracy". Nevermind that no mainstream media house has produced a PS2 title in years, and that the SDK for small devs relies on homebrew ability to run.

Just list it as a PS2 Fat. Don't mention the modded nature, except in private with buyers.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900799)

Nevermind that no mainstream media house has produced a PS2 title in years

So 2K Games [amazon.com] , EA [amazon.com] , Konami [amazon.com] and THQ [amazon.com] aren't mainstream game companies? All those were released between 5 and 10 months ago.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900837)

News to me. The PS2 section at walmart has stopped being in the glass case, and has stuff like cabela's classic huntd in it.

If game houses are still releasing titles for a console that by this time next year will be 2 genrations old, I wonder about their thought processes.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900987)

If game houses are still releasing titles for a console that by this time next year will be 2 genrations old, I wonder about their thought processes.

Their thought process is that the PS2 is still making them money so they make games for it. It was only around 2010 when the amount of new games really slowed down a lot.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901129)

Wasn't that about just a bit after Sony stopped including PS2 backwards compatibility in the PS3? Who knows how long those games would have continued had Sony left the support in the console.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (4, Insightful)

Megane (129182) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900531)

For one thing, good luck keeping that DVD drive working. Yeah, I know, WinHIIP, etc. But mostly it's a fiddling mess of hardware for which the only real advantage is that a PS2 with a 500 GB hard drive and FreeMCBoot is a lot more portable than a desktop PC. But that desktop PC is going to hook up to a modern TV set a lot more easily, too.

I just got tired of keeping a PS2 running.

And then there's save states. Very nice when you're playing RPGs.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900621)

Actually, I cooked the memory card because the dvd's laser assembly is weak. I do use winhiip to dump the discs I buy. (These days ps2 games are like, 5$. Why pirate?)

Same story with the console my friend gave to his kid. Laser unit is completely dead in that one. Open loader let's it still work, and the fact the kid doesn't need original discs is only a plus.

I will switch to an emulator when the console does finally die. (I use ulaunchelf to dump my memory card saves periodically just as a precaution too.)

But until my console dies, I don't see a reason to retire it.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900761)

Also, the PS2 supports HD component video, and *CAN* drive a widescreen TV.

It just isn't HDMI, and uses analog component. Really new TVs might not support it due to paranoia from media companies wanting to plug their "analog holes".

But I hooked up a ps2 to a new TV just a few months ago for a friend's dad, who is a diehard console gamer. He is one of the people I shelled out money to get a network adaptor for so I could hook him up with an internal disk drive. His old game display was an eye-cancer and myopia inducing crt with blurry focus. I replaced it with a 42 inch LCD that was on sale as a "because whatever" present. Hooked him up with component video and a switcher box, and now he's not squinting to play his games anymore.

Just thought I would mention that a PS2 can drive an HDtv just fine.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

White Flame (1074973) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900541)

Save states, pause/resume anywhere, fast forward (well, if your machine is fast enough), record video or audio, use almost any controller you want, less hardware, higher render resolution.

I'm assuming your drive system eliminates effectively as much load lag already as a modern HD.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900675)

Yeah, openloader and hdloader use a real internal IDE hdd, and at full speed. Load windows pop for maybe 4 seconds. (Instead of the half minute or so with a real disc.)

Again though, for the real nostalgia fix, the lack of those emulator features (save/load state, et al) is preferable in my opinion. Part of the fun in games is the difficulty.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

TrancePhreak (576593) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900917)

Because not everyone can get a working PS2 Fat. Also, wireless controllers and better media functionality.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900949)

Why would I want to use an emulator on the classic windows game box I have in the living room, when I have the genuine article in there already?

Good god man, you do not belong here.

I have a PS2 Fat, with the network module, a 500gb IDE drive stuck in the expansion bay, and a magic memory card in card slot 1.

One day it will die, the drive alone is a ticking time bomb no matter how well you treat it. You'll also move a few times, run out of space and one day you just won't see the value in keeping an old piece of crap around just to play that one game you loved so much. (I'm looking you square in the eye's Contra.

FreeMCBoot is free. It exploits a little known feature in fat PS2s that allow it to boot from the memory card (this was used for japanese kareoke software), which gives me access to homebrew, and HD loader, OpenHDLoader, and USB advance.

Sigh, I'm not sure where to start here so I just won't.

Not belittling PCSX2 or anything: for people that ditched their old console, it offers a good nostalgia fix, and also serves as a code base for emulators running on other consoles, (like the PS3, now that it is hopelessly smashed security wise.) That is *always* a good thing.

But I still prefer the real thing.

Fine so talk to me when I'm on my phone, tablet or glasses; playing my favorite games from the last 40 years on an airplane and your pissed you didn't bring your Atari 2600 and damn it the kids wanted to use the CRT TV at home.

Just saying.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (0)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901013)

[..you don't belong here..]

How can a nostalgist for old hardware *not* be welcome on a geek forum? The *reason* people play old atari 2600 games is *becuase* they remember playing them as kids, and want to relive the experience. Emulators make that possible when you no longer have the hardware. I am totally down with that. They also let you play them when the hardware is too large to travel with. I have a PSP FAT running CFW that I use on airplanes. Works great.

[One day it will die]

Yes, it will. And on that day I will use emulation. I am not down on emulators, I just prefer the real thing when available. I back up the contents of the memory card regularly with ulaunchelf, so when it does blow the magic smoke, my saved games are safe, and I can switch to emulation without any overly horrible duress.

[Not sure where to go here so I won't.]

If you can't see the benefit of no longer needing the dvd drive in terms of extending the useful life of a classic console, I can't help you. Sorry.

[Talk to me when I am on the phone..]

No, that is rude.

[But I will be using emulators when I am on the plane.]

Yes, me too. That is a nonsequitor. This was intended for in the living room.

[You will move...]

Doubtful. I love my bachelor pad, and have no interest in a significant other of either gender. It is in a quiet backwater community, and is reasonably safe and unrestricting. I love it here. Not moving. I don't care about some bullshit "american dream" involving realestate. I own my house, don't rent, and am happy where I am. I don't mind a motley abortion of old consoles stuffed in the tv stand. I don't have a significant other who does, and have no interest in getting one. Argument fail.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901081)

Why? Apart from games that require a light gun, you can just dump most of those games to disk with a retrode and play them using the original controller. Basically the same experience.

However, in terms of the PS series, you're right, but mostly because at this time it's pretty cheap to do that. But, ultimately if folks aren't working on properly emulating the games now, it could take many years once it becomes necessary.

OTOH, it takes a pretty beefy computer to properly emulate games without having to individually add hacks for broken games. I know of some that will not run on hardware that doesn't include all the original glitches of the original units.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901181)

"i prefer my *real* PS2."

And I'll be playing God of war 1 and games like Gradius V in high resolution. PC emulation only makes old classics better in the long run unless their is incompatibility or some game company does something incredibly stupid like how the original FF7 had really poorly encoded FMV which made the PS1 version superior. Although FF7 PC now has mods that take it beyond what the original could have ever dreamed.

There is a whole host of mods here

http://fem1.uniag.sk/Miroslav.Jezik/ff7ncopam.html [uniag.sk]

Also screenshots of enhanced models/textures and graphics can be found around the web, stuff IMPOSSIBLE to do on a console.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

dmneoblade (848781) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901363)

The PS2 I have plugged into my home theatre setup, and it jitters up and down every other frame. The media PC hooked up via HDMI has no issues. Thus, using an emulator will grant me superior performance, and legible text. Looking into the issue appears to indicate that the problem is that I have a receiver that upscales the video, and a TV that does the same. However, neither my receiver nor my TV seem to have settings allowing me to fully fix it. I've made it _better_, but its still garbage for my RPG collection. I'm in the process of setting up and evaluating PCSX2, as it would greatly enhance my ability to enjoy my game collection, without buying a TV just for PS2 usage.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901423)

Are you using the rf modulator/rca composite video option?

The PS2 supports using component video which can drive at higher resolutions, including 16:9 widescreen mode.

Just saying.

Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. (1)

Khyber (864651) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901613)

"It runs at full speed, because it is running on the native hardware."

Yep, I can tell you've never played Shadow of the Colossus. Full speed, on an actual PS2, HAH!

Not even FOUR REVISIONS could give the PS2 enough power for SotC.

PCSX2? MUCH FASTER.

PCSX2 is my computing timeline. (4, Informative)

gallondr00nk (868673) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900645)

Going back to about 2001, every couple of years when I've upgraded, I've tried to see if I can actually run a game on the fucker.

I've tried it on a Pentium II 350mhz, a Duron 1.3ghz, a Celeron 2.6ghz, a P4 3ghz with a x1950 radeon. Tried it today on my old dual xeon and its still nowhere near smooth with Gt4.

Oh well, sometime in the next decade, maybe.

Re:PCSX2 is my computing timeline. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900741)

Seriously a Xeon these days? You're trying the program with a 7 year old processor...any current i3 will run most games flawlessly.

Re:PCSX2 is my computing timeline. (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901237)

My i3 (330M @ 2.13 Ghz) can't quite do that. I've only tested with a couple of games (FF12 and God of War) but I'm only getting 60 fps when there's not much happening, like in menus and cut-scenes and simple scenes). As soon as stuff starts happening it plummets down to 30 fps or less. That would be fine if it was skipping frames, but apparently it can't do that reliably due to the nature of the PS2's graphics pipeline and the game slows down to a crawl.

Re:PCSX2 is my computing timeline. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901317)

Xeons aren't 7 years old. I have Nahelem and Sandy Bridge Xeons.

"Free" as in... (2)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900697)

You have to get a copy of Sony's PS2 BIOS to get it to work.

Great! (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900749)

What are the good PS2 games? I want to see if I can get this to work right now.

I wouldn't spend a dime on Sony, but I'd love to try some of those games.

What was big on the PS2?

Re:Great! (2)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900805)

Universally recognized hit titles are things like GT, (gran Tourismo) resident evil series, crash bandicoot, suikoden series, some people were partial to the .hack series, and others I've met loved darkcloud 2.

Others are things like katamari damaci (which is hard to classify as a genre...) god of war, shadow of the collosus, and pals.

For shooters, you have medal of honor and a few others.

Re:Great! (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901083)

Do you like JRPGs? Try Persona 3. Do you like shmups? Try Gradius V or Mushihime-sama. Do you like Beat Em Ups? Try God Hand or The Red Star. Do you like arcade style air combat? Try Ace Combat 4 or 5. Do you like Zelda-likes? Try Okami (pretty too!). Do you like art wanks? Try Ico or Shadow of the Colossus. Like robot combat? Try Zone of the Enders.

That should get you started. I've only had a PS2 for 3 years or so now, in a house full of consoles and it gets a lot of use. Great library. Look into FreeMC boot if you want the best PS2 experience.

Re:Great! (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901609)

Shadow of the Colossus looks insane. All of your recommendations appeal to me.

I'm gonna try this emulator thing tomorrow when I've got some time.

Re:Great! (1)

Monkey-Man2000 (603495) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901097)

Let's see, a few of the best I remember were of course GTA 3, Vice City, San Andreas, I liked Tekken Tag Tournament, Metal Gear Solid, Max Payne, and Virtua Fighter. I remember a few other less popular games but forgot the names. But Vice City is still quite possibly the most memorable GTA.

Uhm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40900763)

So this is not a true emulator but a 'high level' emulator, much like UltraHLE was, which used Voodoo2 cards to render and possibly enhance graphics beyond N64 specifications? at the other end of the emulation spectrum you have MAME which aims to accurately reproduce the arcade PCB in software down to the hardware registers, warts and all.

Re:Uhm (2)

byuu (1455609) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900841)

Trust me, you really, really don't want a low-level PS2 emulator. It would be a great thing to have made now for documentation purposes (so that the knowledge is preserved while it's still easily accessible), but it wouldn't run full speed on anything released in the next 40-50 years.

nerds: 1, suits: 0 (1)

jehan60188 (2535020) | more than 2 years ago | (#40900963)

took 12 years, but it just goes to show, nerds > suits

Browser Plug-in Installer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40901285)

Plug-in Installer?

I wonder if Sony's new SOE Web Installer plug-in has anything to do what this. (said SOE plug-in being installed in all installed browsers by SOE game executables)

Games, Emulators and GPL software? (1)

ilsaloving (1534307) | more than 2 years ago | (#40901651)

Yup, thats a slashdotting alright. ;)

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