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The Internet Archive Starts Seeding Over a Million Torrents

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the adding-a-dose-of-legitimacy dept.

Books 180

An anonymous reader writes with news that The Internet Archive has started seeding about 1,400,000 torrents. In addition to over a million books, the Archive is seeding thousands and thousands of films, music tracks, and live concerts. John Gilmore of the EFF said, "The Archive is helping people to understand that BitTorrent isn't just for ephemeral or dodgy items that disappear from view in a short time. BitTorrent is a great way to get and share large files that are permanently available from libraries like the Internet Archive." Brewster Kahle, founder of the Archive, told TorrentFreak, "I hope this is greeted by the BitTorrent community, as we are loving what they have built and are very glad we can populate the BitTorrent universe with library and archive materials. There is a great opportunity for symbiosis between the Libraries and Archives world and the BitTorrent communities."

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Next move (5, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 2 years ago | (#40915167)

The *AAs start suing the Internet Archive.

Re:Next move (4, Interesting)

webmistressrachel (903577) | about 2 years ago | (#40915201)

Actually it provides plausible denial for encrypted torrent traffic. Breaking the encryption for purposes other than download is being complicit. It puts and end to the Star I AA's case, finally!

Re:Next move (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915245)

Yes, because all of that "I was just downloading a Linux distro has gone over so well in the past.

Sure, more legitimate content would improve the case of plausible deniability, but it still comes down to scare tactics to try to get you to settle, even if you truly did nothing wrong.

Defending yourself in a court of law is an expensive proposition.

Re:Next move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915315)

What is an AA?

Re:Next move (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915415)

It's that place you go when you've become powerless over your al...wait, what?

Re:Next move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915463)

Never mind I get it. He means *AA as in RIAA, MPAA, GNAA, etc...

Although that latter seems to have embraced torrent for distributing its film.

Re:Next move (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916575)

"GNAA" sounds like a deaf person trying to talk

Re:Next move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915453)

Alcoholics Anonymous.
Automobile Association.
American Airlines.
Anti-aircraft.
Anti-aliasing.

Re:Next move (5, Funny)

geogob (569250) | about 2 years ago | (#40915773)

Assorted Assholes. aka. RIAA, MPAA, GEMA... list is long.

Re:Next move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915865)

Gee, that last one must be a bunch of assholes, they don't even have the common decency to end their acronym in AA.

Re:Next move (5, Informative)

Arancaytar (966377) | about 2 years ago | (#40916007)

They're German, and AA mostly stands for "Association of America".
(The G isn't for "German"; obviously if they had that in the name it'd be "D".)

The "bunch of assholes" part is accurate however.

Re:Next move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40917045)

and do not forget the GEZ

Re:Next move (2)

Tapewolf (1639955) | about 2 years ago | (#40916223)

What is an AA?

They provide a car breakdown/recovery service in the UK.

Re:Next move (5, Funny)

RaceProUK (1137575) | about 2 years ago | (#40916569)

What is an AA?

It's a bit bigger than an AAA.

Re:Next move (2)

SteveFoerster (136027) | about 2 years ago | (#40916705)

It's short for MAFIAA.

Re:Next move (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915635)

More likely the people using Torrent for illicit purposes will be upset that content of a legitimate nature is flooding the torrent channels.

The MAFIAA should be charged by the various national and local governments for infringing upon fair trade practices. Whenever possible I buy my music directly from the artist and by so doing I have discovered music to which I would never otherwise have been exposed.

Re:Next move (5, Insightful)

Arancaytar (966377) | about 2 years ago | (#40916013)

"flooding the torrent channels"?

That is so not how BitTorrent works.

Re:Next move (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916563)

...flooding the torrent channels...

That is so not how BitTorrent works.

You are correct. RFC 5694 - Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Architecture: Definition, Taxonomies, Examples, and Applicability clearly states that "BitTorrent traffic MUST NOT: FLOOD the CHANNELS, CLOG the TUBES, or OVERLOAD the TRUCKS."

Re:Next move (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916283)

More likely the people using Torrent for illicit purposes will be upset that content of a legitimate nature is flooding the torrent channels.

Flooding the channels? Do you understand how bittorrent works?

Who the fuck modded this crap up?

Re:Next move (1)

RaceProUK (1137575) | about 2 years ago | (#40916577)

flooding the torrent channels.

Mod parent down -1, Talking Out Of Arse.

Re:Next move (-1, Offtopic)

foodchempan (2500240) | about 2 years ago | (#40915855)

Click here [365djerseys.com] to read more

Re:Next move (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916655)

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (filter error, my hairy ass : and it's moderately hairy, in line with the moderately uselesss filter igot around by deleteing a few '"!", Actually, now that i've added a bunch of text i can probably add back some exclamation points....

(sorry, i'mdrunk. And it's almost time for work. Look for some strange easter eggs in the next version of Adobe Photoshop in 6-8 monthes. click about - hold a and s and h for 2 seconds, then click OK. It doesn't workl in the current version, you have to wait for the next one. But it'll be worth it... Unless I'm lying. Let me know what you think of my art

Already abused by spammers.... (0)

John Bokma (834313) | about 2 years ago | (#40915237)

httxx p://ar xxx chive.org/details/ Chea pAlpra zolamWitho u tAP r e sc riptionA lp r a zo la mWi thFr e eDrConsultation

URL mangled for obvious reasons...

Re:Already abused by spammers.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915299)

Not anymore. :)

How about Freenet? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915243)

Could the Internet Archive ever validate Freenet in the same way? Show that it can be used for fault tolerant archiving of static data, and not just subversive/illegal speech?

Re:How about Freenet? (3, Insightful)

MartinG (52587) | about 2 years ago | (#40916029)

I don't think they are trying to "validate" bittorrent. That's just a side effect of what they are doing. They are simply using one of the most efficient and cost effective ways of distributing data because it helps them, and possibly makes a better experience for the users.

freenet offers anonymity but they don't really need that here. Bittorrent also offers fault tolerance, doesn't it?

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915311)

Oh, wait, you don't want to?

Fine, I'll ask the Russians instead. They always have what I want, in the best format possible, for free.

This is what enrages me the most today. Everyone is busy off complaining about piracy and bullshit, when they're not making their products readily available in a format I can actually use. I've lost count how many times I've walked into BestBuy holding a bundle of $20 bills only to be turned away because they don't stock something. The last time I went there it was for a Disney movie for the kids- only to be told point blank by the salesman who went into the back looking for the Bluray disk that Disney had stopped producing them (this was a year old movie- hell, we had it in theatres up until about 4 months ago) so that they could re-release it again in a special edition in a few months and charge full pop once more.

I've gone into more music stores then I can remember looking for CDs of good music (none of this modern day auto-tuned bullshit or the crap where there's some white boy rapping through a telephone effect patch to hard-panned deep beats), and I almost never find what I'm looking for. Then I land up having to either buy the CD from Europe or direct from the band and waiting ~4 weeks for it to show up in the mail- and I've still got to go prod the Russians for a nice FLAC copy to listen to in the meantime.

Hell, there's been TV series I would HAPPILY pay for to watch and enjoy with my family if I could actually get them on DVD or BR. But no, because of licensing-this-and-licensing-that, once again I'm being denied the ability to PAY FOR my entertainment by the VERY SAME people who sit around bitching and complaining about piracy all day long.

About half a year ago I got a letter from my ISP basically complaining about the fact that I'd been downloading stuff and someone else was angry about it. It was funny at the time because had I been able to get what I was looking for locally- or even off the internet and mailed to me- I wouldn't have pirated the stuff. After searching the internet for a few hours and finding nothing, I turned to my usual set of trackers and had the thing downloaded in 2 hours. It still makes me chuckle to think that someone out there was peeved enough about me downloading their product to actually complain to my ISP about it, even though their product was made of unobtanium *anywhere*.

If these people don't want to take my money when I'm literally holding it out to them, arms outstretched, begging them to take it- and all I get in response is a resounding "NO.", I have no sympathy for any of them. The fact that BT is still going stronger then ever today is awesome. Maybe one day the corporate fuckheads of the world will wake up and figure things out, and start taking my money in a sane manner so that both parties can benefit from the exchange.

-AC (for obvious reasons)

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (3, Informative)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 2 years ago | (#40915439)

After searching the internet for a few hours and finding nothing, I turned to my usual set of trackers and had the thing downloaded in 2 hours. It still makes me chuckle to think that someone out there was peeved enough about me downloading their product to actually complain to my ISP about it, even though their product was made of unobtanium *anywhere*.

Exactly. I download a ton of stuff over the internet, mostly older movies, TV series and documentaries in foreign languages, because it's just not available anywhere. It's illegal alright, but the legal risk to me, which is already very low, is made even lower by the fact that (1) the stuff I download isn't exactly prime-time material and (2) there really are no other sources for it, and that's a bloody good excuse I reckon.

I just don't understand why copyright holders don't grok that people prefer clicking twice in the comfort of their living room to visiting a brick-and-mortar store, or scouring the internet in search of a legit copy of the stuff and finding nothing, or finding something and going through the typical online store shopping cart rigmarole, then waiting a week for the stuff to arrive.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915599)

I wish we had a law saying that you can obtain something for free if the copyright holders refuse to sell it to you. This would keep a lot of this horrible litigation from ever occurring.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (3, Informative)

swell (195815) | about 2 years ago | (#40915745)

Intellectual property law is designed to protect the creator's right to control the property. It carries no obligation to make the property (or music or movie) available to others. It simply prevents others from doing so for the duration.

Some copyright holders seem to believe that scarcity can be profitable. Thus Disney can bring out Snow White every 30 years and make a killing, whereas if it was always available the price would have deteriorated considerably. And somehow they are able to protect their copyrights forever...

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (5, Insightful)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 2 years ago | (#40915795)

Intellectual property law is designed to protect the creator's right to control the property. It carries no obligation to make the property (or music or movie) available to others

One could argue that the whole purpose of copyright is to benefit the society by stimulating the creation of new works that the society can then enjoy, but the part where the works exist but are denied to society under any terms kind of makes the copyright pointless, so the question is whether it should even apply to those cases.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916807)

Not just "could argue". The stated purpose is "to promote the sciences and useful arts". The only argument against it is by ignoring that stated purpose entirely.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (2)

WillDraven (760005) | about 2 years ago | (#40916959)

Has anybody mathematically proven that the current copyright laws are detrimental to the sciences and useful arts? If we could do that maybe we could get some laws struck down as unconstitutional. (I know, I'm dreaming...)

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40917111)

I am a creator. Copyright doesn't stimulate me. Creating does.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (2)

MightyYar (622222) | about 2 years ago | (#40916761)

The nice thing about IP law is that it is just that... a law. You can change it to say anything you want.

If we decide to put in a penalty for not making stuff available, we can do that.

Not so easy... (2)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | about 2 years ago | (#40915947)

I wish we had a law saying that you can obtain something for free if the copyright holders refuse to sell it to you. This would keep a lot of this horrible litigation from ever occurring.

So instead of refusing to sell, they can just set the price for dealers/distributors to be absurdly high - it's still available for sale. Example: for extended periods, Disney could set the wholesale price of a licensed copy of a particular movie on DVD/BR to about $200million. Then, for a limited time, the wholesale price could drop to $20, so retailers can sell it for about $30 or so. Problem solved, and largely indistinguishable from the present, where Disney simply refuses to sell particular movies for extended periods to maintain their pricing power.

Re:Not so easy... (1)

Alex Belits (437) | about 2 years ago | (#40916327)

But that's Disney purposefully manipulating things, still with intention to sell their movies.

Most of the time companies either never ever release their movies and TV series in a usable format, or do it so late, people forget what those things were about. The effect on the company is the opposite -- Disney probably makes more money by behaving unethically (they do it to products with lasting popularity, creating the impression of rarity, and everyone who is interested still ends up buying), those companies make less money by behaving unethically (unless they have an instant cult classic, popularity wanes when there is no way to watch those things -- they even lose money on TV ads and TV/movie franchises).

Wouldn't work because they ARE willing to sell. (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about 2 years ago | (#40916523)

There was a dutch version of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. As a naive kid I inquired how it could be obtained. The NOS would very happy to supply the copyrighted material. All I would have to do was pay a sound engineer to make the copies. The price was... well... rather high doesn't do it justice.

But it is available... for a price...

You can probably get any movie you want to. For a couple of million.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915473)

The fact that BT is still going stronger then ever today is awesome. Maybe one day the corporate fuckheads of the world will wake up and figure things out

Or perhaps they'll just throw-in the towel and stop making the baubles you covet. And maybe then you'll realise how much of your short life you wasted sitting in front of the TV.

If we are fortunate we have 80 years on this Earth. Grab a camera and go OUT THERE and write about what you see. Make a differencein your community. Write a book. But please, I beseech you, stop sitting watching pointless crap on TV.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (4, Informative)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 2 years ago | (#40915543)

If we are fortunate we have 80 years on this Earth. Grab a camera and go OUT THERE and write about what you see. Make a differencein your community. Write a book. But please, I beseech you, stop sitting watching pointless crap on TV.

Why do you assume people who watch TV automatically watch pointless crap and waste their lives?

Yes, 95% of TV is crap. But the remaining 5%, which I watch from time to time, makes me discover other parts of the world I'll never go to, explains scientific discoveries to me, teaches me history, tells me what's happening in the world, lets me practice other languages, exposes current issues in society, etc.

The non-idiotic part of the idiot box can entertain you intelligently without taking very much of your time, if only because there isn't much of it in between ads, reality TV shows and the Olympics. Of course, if you don't dig these things, then TV certainly has the capability of making you very dumb indeed.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915963)

>> stop sitting watching pointless crap on TV.

> Why do you assume people who watch TV automatically watch pointless crap and waste their lives?

He didn't. He said stop sitting watching *pointless* crap.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (2)

fwarren (579763) | about 2 years ago | (#40916243)

Groucho Marx sums it up best

I find TV very educational. Everytime someone turns one on, I go in the other room and read a book.

Does Warehouse13 count? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916277)

That's science, right???

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (2)

SteveFoerster (136027) | about 2 years ago | (#40916737)

So what you're saying is that 95% of TV gives the other 5% a bad name?

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40917015)

95% of everything is crap.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (5, Funny)

Dunbal (464142) | about 2 years ago | (#40915561)

And maybe then you'll realise how much of your short life you wasted sitting in front of the TV.

Says the guy who wastes hours of his short life in front of a computer monitor. Oh wait, no, he's only here 5 minutes a day folks, he's not like "the rest". Sounds like someone is suffering from "I'm a special princess" syndrome. Why do you think that you are significantly different from everyone else who posts here, princess? And no, you can't have a pony.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916557)

Coming from the guy who's browsing pointless crap on the internet.

There's your problem... (0)

bluemonq (812827) | about 2 years ago | (#40915537)

"I've lost count how many times I've walked into BestBuy..."

Why would you ever walk into a store when you could get what you want off of Amazon?

Re:There's your problem... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916273)

Ever try to download something from amazon with linux? They dont make it easy

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916057)

This is a shining example of misapplication of copyright. When copyright was originally implemented, there was only one way to publish something: you printed it, bound it, and published it as a book (which people were then free to resell). It was never intended to allow the copyrighter to control *how* the work was distributed, because the question didn't arise.

Now, copyright has the unfortunate side-effect that the copyrighter can control the form in which a work is published, where it's available, etc. This is actually fairly simple to remedy: allow anyone to publish the work, provided that they provide (say) 50% of revenue to the person who holds the copyright.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40917159)

I am with you.

I live in a latin american country.

I have directTV with all the U.S. channels, I pay a small fortune to have them. They will not broadcast a show for a year(s) after first broadcast, that is in reruns in the States. Sometimes at all. They will not show a new movie in the theatre for months after its released in the States. Hell, not even the frigen news channels such as CNN are the same. They have "international" editions (politically scrubbed so as not to offend the rest of the World). Which is fine, just give me the option to choose.

Then they bitch about why I was forced to go to torrents to get the entertainment I wanted, and was willing to pay for. The U.S. state department IP cops are constantly harping on the country I live in about the piracy problem, because everyone else in the country has the same problem legally accessing content that is simply not made available at all. I am a native English speaker, it is even worse if you have to wait for a Spanish subtitle to be broadcast locally.

Re:SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40917299)

You will eat the shit that's dished to you, and you will like it. And you will buy more. And you'll tell your friends to buy it. And you'll set a great example for why the rest of the world wants to be just like you when you do these things.

And if you make the mistake of not choosing to do these things, we will label you an economic terrorist. And terrible things will happen to you.

Choose wisely, citizen.

Changing perceptions of BitTorrent...? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915391)

By stuffing it full of even more movies and music?

I think that just amplifies the fact that such systems have been hijacked by people that want to sit and consume "entertainment" for free.

Re:Changing perceptions of BitTorrent...? (3, Insightful)

EzInKy (115248) | about 2 years ago | (#40915583)

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

Forgoiong a discussion on whether or not the "entertainment" in question actually promotes Progress or is useful, it does seem to say that after a certain period of time that "entertainment" will no longer be protected by an "exclusive Right." Certainly you don't have a problem with the Constitution, do you?

These Guys (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915477)

"ephemeral or dodgy items that disappear from view in a short time."

Do these guys even know what pirating is like? Have they even seen it? Most of the time pirated stuff is more reliably available, in a faster time, and often of a higher quality than you can buy legally.

Re:These Guys (5, Insightful)

jamstar7 (694492) | about 2 years ago | (#40915525)

Plus, they tend to not have that annoying 'don't pirate this movie' warning and a 20 minute run of trailers for movies you don't intend to see and you can't break out to the main menu to actually, I dunno, watch the fucking movie you put in the player.

Re:These Guys (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916423)

I think with words/sentences like "ephemeral" and "disappear from view in a short time" they're refering to the fact that the lastest Batman movie is a hot item in the "bittorrent universe" when it's new, but 5 years later noone gives a crap about it anymore. It rings true to me, the latest movie might have 30.000 seeds on the pirate bay, but search for an old movie and you'll be lucky if it has 10. In terms of long time archival of important or interesting data, that is a very short time.

I would agree with you that the use of dodgy seems out of place, especially when talking about bittorrent, but when talking about digital piracy in general, and not just the last few years (so think napster, kazaa, edonkey, etc) dodgy things (virusses, malware, etc) have been a significant part of it. Come to think of it, if one were to use the pirate bay without a healthy amount of geekish common sense (like checking the comments, like going for the torrents that are uploaded by a longterm community member of sorts and featuring a green or purple skull) one is likely to run into quite a lot of dodgy stuff even today. There's plenty of torrents out there that are RAR or ZIP archives password protected accompanied by a link to a paysite and things of that nature.

And where does all this content come from? (1, Insightful)

Grayhand (2610049) | about 2 years ago | (#40915589)

Take away the profit and you take away the reason to create new content to share. It's not a popular argument but it's a realistic one. Share copyrighted material and eventually the copyright holders stop producing new content. Not because they are being mean or greedy but eventually they run out of resources. It's not even an argument. If it costs a 100 million to make a movie and there's no profit as in you take a loss, how long until you stop making movies? Yes I know fan movies will save us all but are you honestly pirating fan movies or "The avengers"? This is a fight we all will loose. I know being realistic makes me a troll and I promised myself to stay out of this loosing battle but as a movie fan and some one that works in the industry I see the end coming and no one will be happy with the final outcome. I loose my way of life and everyone finds themselves pirating old movies. The pirates winning means no new movies. That's the reality of what we are facing.

Re:And where does all this content come from? (5, Insightful)

hyades1 (1149581) | about 2 years ago | (#40915657)

Movies used to be made and paid for on the basis that they'd be seen ONCE. Now the entertainment corporations want multiple kicks at the can. They want their first run theatre rights, which they've always had, PLUS DVD, Netflix, cable television, regular television and merchandizing revenue.

You aren't being "realistic". You're not even a troll. You're an industry bum-kisser. Why don't you tell us all how much money "The Avengers" made, then try to tell us again how the industry is bleeding to death.

Re:And where does all this content come from? (5, Insightful)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | about 2 years ago | (#40915809)

Duh - "The Avengers" lost money. Every film that Hollywood makes loses money. Especially the ones with the biggest box-office numbers [guardian.co.uk] .

Didn't you know, the entire industry is funded by multi-billionaire philanthropists? The only reason they insist on you buying tickets is so they can count how many peoples lives they are enriching.

Re:And where does all this content come from? (1)

BeanThere (28381) | about 2 years ago | (#40916437)

I do wonder if that leaked net profit statement was the one for the taxman, or the one for the shareholders.

Re:And where does all this content come from? (4, Interesting)

Card (30431) | about 2 years ago | (#40916795)

Ever heard of Hollywood accounting?

Hollywood accounting (also known as Hollywood bookkeeping) refers to the opaque accounting methods used by the film, video and television industry to budget and record profits for film projects. Expenditures can be inflated to reduce or eliminate the reported profit of the project thereby reducing the amount which the corporation must pay in royalties or other profit-sharing agreements, as these are based on the net profit.

How it works [wikipedia.org]

An example is the Warner Bros. television series Babylon 5 created by J. Michael Straczynski. The series, which was profitable in each of its five seasons from 1993–1998, has garnered more than US$1 billion for Warner Bros., most recently US$500 million in DVD sales alone. But in the last profit statement given to Straczynski, Warner Bros. claimed the property was $80 million in debt. "Basically," says Straczynski, "by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits."

Re:And where does all this content come from? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40917307)

The frightening thing is that I'm not certain whether he was serious or whether he was joking.

If he wasn't joking, might I add my own "duh" - If every film that Hollywood makes loses money, why has Hollywood not gone bankrupt? Why do they spend such enormous amounts on making movies if they're for certain going to lose it?

Re:And where does all this content come from? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40917375)

Whooooooooosh!

Well, at least recalibrate your sarcasm detector...

Re:And where does all this content come from? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915661)

No, you are a troll because the movie industry is making record profits despite the economy and rampant piracy. If they were actually losing money or not profiting, then your argument might have held some credence. But no, they are fat cats trying to cut down on our share of the cheese (aka they are greedy bastards). That said, we "pirates" still go to the movies and buy DVD s of movies we like enough to watch more than once.

And I would not care of Hollywood didn't produce anything new. It's mostly crap anyway.

Re:And where does all this content come from? (1)

Grimbleton (1034446) | about 2 years ago | (#40916845)

I'm sorry, could you explain what share of this cheese you're entitled to, having done nothing to contribute to the making of it?

Re:And where does all this content come from? (2)

darkfeline (1890882) | about 2 years ago | (#40915719)

There's a couple of problems with this. First of all, no one's taking away profit. New movies are still being made since BitTorrent first came out and since movies were pirated (basically forever); obviously they're turning a very VERY healthy profit. Second of all, you don't need a big budget to make a good movie. In fact, I'd argue that a big budget gets in the way of making good movies, since priorities start getting seriously warped once large numbers come into play. Finally, the pirates can't "win". That doesn't even make sense since they don't even have a goal. I guess you could call them getting a copy of a movie/DRM-cracked media "winning", in which case it's pretty much guaranteed then; the pirates "win". They're not trying to drive content creators out of business; in fact, many "pirates" are perfectly willing to pay and in some cases have paid; they just prefer having a non-DRM/free format/unrestricted/digital/&c. copy.

Re:And where does all this content come from? (3, Insightful)

TemperedAlchemist (2045966) | about 2 years ago | (#40915763)

Do you know what happens with all of that money earned by litigation against piracy? It goes directly back into the pockets of the anti-piracy groups. That's right -- while the industry kicks and screams about those poor starving artists in court, they don't lift a finger to help them out with the money that should go to the artists.

So don't go pointing your fingers at the pirates. Point your fingers at the people who license and manage the content. They're the ones controlling its distribution and taking a good big cut of the profits for themselves. What, you think the writers and actors behind Game of Thrones had any control over whether or not they could make their stuff available on hulu or netflix?

Please, if you actually think that you need to pull your head out of the lala land the MAFIAA have created. It's not that people really aren't willing to pay -- it's that companies like HBO try their darnedest to give potential customers the worst treatment ever. Let's face it, would you go to the DMV and pay a fee, stand in line for hours, and then talk to a lady that's got an attitude OR would you rather click a few buttons and have your new registration appear right in front of you for free?

Re:And where does all this content come from? (4, Insightful)

biodata (1981610) | about 2 years ago | (#40915905)

Most of the best content comes from passionate people making it because it is the thing they want to do most in life. This is true in the arts, music, science, sport, and most other areas of cultural production. Recessions tend to produce a cultural flowering, because people have more time on their hands, so more time to devote to their passions. We used to need huge business enterprises to do DISTRIBUTION, but we have that sorted now thank you. Having less big budget movies being made does not make me think our societies will become a cultural desert, although, as a movie fan and someone who works in the industry I can see how you would be worried. And by the way the pirates are entirely winning, and no, it isn't meaning no new movies. This is flawed thinking.

Re:And where does all this content come from? (3, Informative)

rufty_tufty (888596) | about 2 years ago | (#40916189)

Let's assume I pirate everything I can. Let's then count how many ways the media industry makes money off me.
Let's say I go out on a date to the moves. *check*
Perhaps I realise the cinema AV system is better than my home one, so for movies that are quite AV intensive I make sure I see them there *check*
I listen to music on the radio *check*
I still buy books because I prefer the dead tree format *check*
Still go to the theatre
Still go to concerts
Still watch TV (with adverts)
etc

Even if I did pirate rampantly there is still a healthy income stream there, I see no reason why this would kill off the entertainment industry. Remember "Home taping is killing music"

The wrong business model (2)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about 2 years ago | (#40916537)

The content industry doesn't have the business model of making a sustained profit, they have the business model of making MORE AND MORE AND MORE MONEY! If the content industry was run by the supermarkets, your example would work. But it is not. It is run by people who make wallstreet bankers look wholesome and they want ever more cash from you.

Re:And where does all this content come from? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916339)

You don't understand. Plenty of people, if not most people, *want* to pay for movies and other content. Most of the problem is sellers not understanding the market, and wanting to keep their exorbitant prices and inconvenient distribution methods. Those two factors (cost and convenience) are the problems they should be addressing, instead of claiming they are poor while sleeping on beds of money and doing bogus accounting so that people like you don't get a fair share. I mean, according to Hollywood accounting, practically every major film already loses money, and the whole industry should be deeply in the hole. Yet, somehow, mysteriously, this multi-billion-dollar revenue industry keeps on going despite its "unprofitability".

It isn't the pirates out there that are the problem, it's the pirates at the top that are running the show and want to keep things exactly the way they are. If that whole perverse system collapses in on itself, I don't care. Real movie makers with real businesses will arise, and I'll buy product from them. I don't pirate stuff now, and I won't in the future, but if I have a decent alternative to paying these Hollywood ripoff artists, I'll gladly redirect my purchases.

You aren't being a troll for being realistic about the fact that people have to be paid in order for quality works to be made, but the extent of irrationality in the current movie industry with regards to accounting is hard to accept. If that huge scam collapses, I trust that creative people will find a way to make good films regardless.

Re:And where does all this content come from? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916751)

Jesus, loose != lose. Why is this so fucking difficult?

Re:And where does all this content come from? (2, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | about 2 years ago | (#40917027)

So your solution would be what? Following through your logic, we should all give them money if they've said they've had something pirated. We should pay for something that others didn't. Because without us doing that, we'd have no movies. A bit like those rich people who "fund" the ballet (which is also pretty profitable, I'd like to add)?

Or maybe they should stop treating movies solely as a way to make themselves rich and actually, you know, make something people can enjoy watching. Let's ignore the fact that virtually no movie you've ever heard of has ever really made a loss (but according to LucasArts, Return of The Jedi still isn't profitable despite a 10x difference between sales and the cost of making it).

The top 4 in my country, by sales, at the moment are:

The Dark Knight Rises (which number Batman film?)
Ice Age: Continental Drift (Ice Age 4?)
The Amazing Spider-Man (which number Spiderman film?)
Magic Mike (A dance-movie)

Collectively, they've taken some hundreds of millions of pounds and cost much less to make. But it's shite like that that stops me going to the cinema. I never *used* to have problems finding something worth watching, but in the last 10 years I haven't seen anything at a cinema that was worth the entrance price for an adult.

Every night I have the same dilemma of "finding something to watch" on TV. More than 50% of the time, I end up watching pre-recorded media that I purchased (most of it at least 10 years old, some of it virtually unobtainable now). The rest, I watch free-tripe-that-I-can-cope-with or do something else entirely. There is literally about a day's worth of new programming that I would watch spread over the entire year and hundreds of channels.

I don't claim to be too cultured to watch some tripe now and then, but really I buy all my stuff on DVD **AFTER** having watched it (usually for free on TV or at a friend's house). There's just too much junk for me to wade through, and the profits that are made out of me make it the only viable way to purchase movies. I don't purchase music at all. Ever. Not once. Because I don't listen to it.

But the industry's solution to this is not to improve their content, or change their target, or provide archive footage for a reasonable price, but to penalise *me* for other people being criminals.

I have to wade through DVD adverts (and actually now have been forced to rip the DVD's I own onto drives with UOP's removed just to avoid that), I have to deal with the industry wanting to monitor my connections, cut me off, turning YouTube into a mess of adverts and DMCA notices because there's a five-second clip of their music on a home video, forcing their copy protection on my TV cables (HDCP), attempting to make timeshifting illegal, increasing the amount of junk legislation and bogus lawsuits and chasing criminals in Russia to stop their pirating, and millions of other knock-on effects. Hell, even making some countries citizens pay tax on a blank disc.

If you want my custom, respect me. Put your archives online, for a reasonable price in a reasonable format. If I can get the "genuine" download for £1 compared to some rip-off for free, I *will* go for the genuine download. So long as I don't have to install DRM, Silverlight, or some other junk just to play a video file. And, no, I wouldn't copy it and give it to my friends - my friends aren't cheapskates and would buy their own copy for £1 too. Let me download the movie the same day its released, wherever I happen to be. Let me get it on DVD and not just Blu-Ray. Let me not have region restrictions, UOP's and ten minutes of trailers.

Then you might see some money back from me. At the moment you get minimal money because you treat me like an idiot and/or a criminal, so I don't resort to piracy, I just stop consuming your products (in the same way, if a restaurant piss me off, I don't steal their food, or con an advantage on their "all-you-can-eat" deals, I just never eat there ever again). If a movie costs more than about £8 I never touch it and if it costs more than £5 I have to be absolutely sure I'll like it. This is what the movie industry have done to me - because of the amount of shite they pump out.

I haven't seen a "comedy" film in about 10 years that I actually laughed out loud at. Hell, the one doing the rounds lately, "Ted", failed to show me a SINGLE joke in five different trailers for radio and TV that I've seen for it. All I saw was a CGI teddy bear say "My bad, I was tweeting". **Hilarious** (sarcasm). The alternative at the moment is The Expendables 2 (yet-another-sequel and, come on, there's a limit where action-movie-with-well-known-stereotyped-actor turns into absolute junk trying to pull people in with only big names).

But, somehow, from archives of stuff I've seen a thousand times, I'm able to find things that I *ENJOY* watching. Get off your arse and make some content. Then price it sensibly and not in a way that it's like me buying a DVD covered in nettles and thorns that I have to take home and prune. Then you might me some of the money I am *forced* to spend elsewhere instead.

Technical Details please (1)

bug1 (96678) | about 2 years ago | (#40915647)

Thats a lot torrents to seed, i assume they arent just running a tracker.

What sort of setup do they have, what bittorrent software do they use ?

Re:Technical Details please (1)

rufty_tufty (888596) | about 2 years ago | (#40916199)

remember this is archive.org an organisation that frequently* snapshots the entire** internet. Their IT infrastructure is something quite impressive.

*okay sites that are updated frequently get more refreshes - you can watch back in time and see how news sites react to world events, but blogs less so.
** okay only really websites that are static and don't have a robots.txt

Torrents should be used for software updates (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915693)

A really good use for torrents would be software updates.

If a big software company (say, Adobe or Microsoft) would seed their patch releases as torrents, it would instantly bring torrents into the general public mindshare as a legitimate downloading tool. More importantly for the companies involved, it would also save them vast amounts of bandwidth (especially for the bigger files).

For a company like Adobe or MS, what's not to like about that? They don't even need to worry about the piracy danger, because with patches, anyone who can use it would already have the software installed.

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915935)

Some companies already do this - Blizzard distributes World of Warcraft and its patches through torrents. The download tool is just a pretty and dumbed down torrent client, with the .torrent file embedded in the downloader's executable. It can actually be extracted and opened with a different client, like uTorrent. Pretty neat system.

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (1)

ledow (319597) | about 2 years ago | (#40916323)

Didn't Steam hire the creator of BitTorrent (Bram Cohen, I think) to work on how it distributes its software updates?

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (2)

agentgonzo (1026204) | about 2 years ago | (#40915951)

I'm not an expert on torrents, but I would imagine that the main reason is that they're telling the users to essentially get the update from an unvalidated source (other torrenters). I know that there are restrictions in how torrents work (verifying hashes of the downloaded chunks etc) but there is a possible attack vector in people poisoning the torrent feed and trying to push malicious packets to consumers.

Secondly, the cost/bandwidth associated for the companies isn't a major factor. It may look a large sum of money to us laymen, but in the scope of the cost of the software development, the cost of distribution is tiny. Companies work based on risk. There is little risk associated with them serving all the updates via HTTP and a low cost. The risk associated with distributed via torrent is higher and so not worth it for Adobe/MS etc.

A third point is user experience. At present, Bittorrent clients aren't incorporated into *all* browsers, meaning that less tech-savvy users won't be able to download the updates unless they install a BT client or the updater is written to download via BT. Then there is the fact that ISPs throttle BT heavily so downloads for end-users *can* be slow. Then there's the uploading - many people may be on bandwidth caps so it's not worth Adobe/MS risking problems by inadvertently blowing customer's broadband limits with their BT uploads.

In short, whilst some companies (Blizzard I think, but a major game anyway) may distribute updates via BT, for a lot of companies it's just not worth the extra hassle and potential problems and it's just *easier* in pretty much every way for them to distribute via their own HTTP servers. Also, CDNs help save on bandwidth a LOT.

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916045)

I'm not an expert on torrents, but I would imagine that the main reason is that they're telling the users to essentially get the update from an unvalidated source

Good thing you started with the disclaimer since the protocol automatically hashes every chuck making this a non-issue.

Bittorrent clients aren't incorporated into *all* browsers

Who the fuck uses a browser with integrated torrent client? And more to the point, who the fuck updates their system via a browser?

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (1)

agentgonzo (1026204) | about 2 years ago | (#40916191)

Good thing you started with the disclaimer since the protocol automatically hashes every chuck making this a non-issue.

But who do you get the hash from? If it's from a peer then the hash could presumably be poisoned too?

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916213)

But who do you get the hash from? If it's from a peer then the hash could presumably be poisoned too?

Then I would suggest they set it so you're always getting the hash from the original source. There. Solved that problem. That was easy.

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (2)

agentgonzo (1026204) | about 2 years ago | (#40916237)

I'm not trying to tell you how to set up BT correctly, I'm giving you reasons why companies *may* prefer just to serve the data via HTTP - easier and less hassle and risk for them to server via HTTP rather than BT. At some point it's going to be cheaper for them to pay for excess bandwidth than do investigations, trials, risk assessements etc.

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (3, Insightful)

progician (2451300) | about 2 years ago | (#40916367)

OK, man, but your argument has been countered successfully. The BT protocol works out of the box the way how validated downloads work: they send you a hash, and once you downloaded, it will check if the file produces the same hash as the source. Can the hash be faked? Sure, there are some ways to do that, but that is a problem with HTTP downloads as well. From a cost and technical point of view BT should be perfectly legitimate choice for a company to distribute their shit.

The real deal here is the bad reputation of BT in the media. There's a whole crusade against file sharing and BT in particular, the technology is associated with criminals, hackerz, child pornography, necrophilia, and communism. Can you imagine the suits in the director board meeting taking the chances for such an association? They rather pay for bandwidth. As a side effect, our internet infrastructure is distorted with having terrible download/upload speed ratios and you have to pay a fortune just for getting a static ip with a decent upload speed. If central repository distribution is a business model that became supported by many parties, including ISPs, cloud service providers, social media and audio/video streaming.

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (1)

agentgonzo (1026204) | about 2 years ago | (#40916541)

OK, man, but your argument has been countered successfully

One of the reasons behind my argument, yes, but the main reason that I was pointing to with a few examples (risk-averseness) you've basically agreed with "Can you imagine the suits in the director board meeting taking the chances for such an association?"

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (1)

petermgreen (876956) | about 2 years ago | (#40917269)

But who do you get the hash from?

The hashes come from the torrent file.

Re:Torrents should be used for software updates (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916893)

I'm not an expert on torrents, but I would imagine that the main reason is that they're telling the users to essentially get the update from an unvalidated source

Good thing you started with the disclaimer since the protocol automatically hashes every chuck making this a non-issue.

But if there's ~1000 chunks, you only need a hash collision (SHA-1, so not easy) with any one chunk, plus a small botnet to seed the bad chunk initially, to effectively DDOS the download -- any peers getting the bad block will propagate it from there, and a whole lot of people get a successful, but corrupted, download.

Hundreds of (typically) 256k chunks * hundreds of pieces of software * dozens of updates a year, and building a table big enough to occasionally DDOS one does start to become (barely) plausible in the near future.

I've considered this principally as an MPAA weapon -- just build the biggest SHA1 table you can afford (since you're looking for junk data, use chunks with 20 bytes of data and 256k-20 of 00, thus only storing 40 bytes per entry), scrape all new torrents off TPB, demonoid, etc., and attack any with a chunk hash found in your table. Not sure there's so much use for "hit some % of downloads, selected completely at random" w/r/t software updates, but it is a plausible attack.

Oh, this should be fun.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915775)

as my ISP actively interferes with p2p traffic..

Sends the wrong message.. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915827)

It's shocking that a once responsible organisation takes it upon itself to blur the distinct in the public mind of the role played by torrents in the distribution of files. Much effort and money has been expended to educate the public and their political representitive as to the true negative impact of this technology on the economic welfare of the managers of content creators.

This wrong minded attempt to compete directly with current content with alternatives that are outside the control of the industry leaders shows the miss use of public moneys in an othrwise open market and I feel certain that come review of that funding influent will be brought to bear that will effect either that funding or the management structure.

Other key words: feedom, open markets, children, economy, health, security

Re:Sends the wrong message.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915981)

Astroturfing industry troll.

AWESOME fp (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40915873)

Lots of good content in there... (5, Informative)

dotancohen (1015143) | about 2 years ago | (#40915893)

... for instance, here are audio recordings of Asimov's Foundation Trilogy:
http://archive.org/details/IsaacAsimov-TheFoundationTrilogy [archive.org]

_This_ is what the civilian Internet was intended for: spreading information and culture.

Re:Lots of good content in there... (1)

jank1887 (815982) | about 2 years ago | (#40916653)

that is awesome. just curious though. there are some publication localities and time periods where public domain is difficult to determine.

http://wiki.librivox.org/index.php/Copyright_and_Public_Domain#Determining_Copyright_Status_in_the_United_States [librivox.org]

This page doesn't list good bibliographical data. a review/comment mentions 'BBC sound lab'. I know these guys are diligent, but am I missing something?

Re:Lots of good content in there... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916735)

Guys, the best thing about archive.org is the FACT that the musicians there specifically authorized the archive to legally provide this music free of charge. This is live recordings. You know, promoting their art by offering live music for free, to interest you enought that you buy their studio releases, see their live shows, and request them on the radio (rarer and rarer, but there are still some stations supporting indie music).

Ladies and Gentlemen, Build your mirrors! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40916593)

How many of us have useless machines that we can convert to Torrent Mirrors for our local community library?

Good start, needs organization (0)

cellocgw (617879) | about 2 years ago | (#40917109)

Search term: "scifi"
Categories found:
sci-fi 40 books, subject
Sci-fi 39 books, subject
Sci-Fi 37 books, subject
SciFi 5 books, subject
scifi 5 books, subject
sci-fi 3 books, time
classic sci-fi 1 book, subject
A sci-fi tv series set in the 23rd century 1 book, time
sci-fi comedy 1 book, subject
sci-fi fantasy; knights; elves; magic 1 book, subject
blood; Emeraldia; Veranna; fantasy; scifi; Telling 1 book, subject

They probably need to clean up their keyword lists :-). All the same, this looks to be a great site in the making.

Cue the DMCA takedown notices in... (3, Interesting)

Tastecicles (1153671) | about 2 years ago | (#40917233)

...5... 4... 3... 2...

I kid. I've used IA a lot. Their movie archive is awesome, I've discovered some real gems on there, and even managed to make a living making and selling compilations (yes, you can actually do that legally with the material on there, and a lot of other people do!)

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