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GNOME Developers Lay Out Plans for GNOME OS

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the everyone's-doing-it dept.

GNOME 208

From the H: "Allan Day has written a blog post on the concrete plans for 'GNOME OS' and provided background on the ideas that have motivated those plans ... Day starts by emphasizing that GNOME OS is not an attempt to replace existing distributions. Although the creation of a standalone GNOME OS is part of the plans, the idea is to make that a testing and development platform, and any improvements that come from GNOME OS should 'directly improve what the GNOME project is able to offer distributions.' Many of the drivers for GNOME OS are, Day says, old ideas to improve the development experience, such as automated testing and sandboxed applications, and while the developers could have separate initiatives for each feature, the idea is to work on them as a 'holistic plan' under the moniker 'GNOME OS.'" A few slides provide more context. In the works are stabilizing the platform APIs, improving deployment of applications, making everything automatically testable, and probably the most controversial: "The increasing popularity of mobile and touch devices represents a challenge to existing desktop solutions. This situation is complicated by the emergence of new hybrid devices that combine keyboards, touchpads and touchscreens. During our discussions last week we talked about how existing types of devices – primarily laptops and desktops – have to remain the primary focus for GNOME ... At the same time, we also want to ensure that GNOME remains compatible with new hardware. ... We have set the goal of having a touch-compatible GNOME 3 within a maximum of 18 months." The drive toward touch may seem obnoxious to desktop users, but spreading Free Software to a hardware ecosystem that is currently locked down and proprietary seems like a good goal to have.

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No one cares (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917321)

So a whole OS that is dumbed down so even a retard would find it frustrating to use?

Re:No one cares (5, Funny)

metamatic (202216) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917625)

So a whole OS that is dumbed down so even a retard would find it frustrating to use?

Look at how much money Apple makes from iOS.

Re:No one cares (4, Insightful)

smisle (1640863) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917741)

Yeah, but Apple is smart enough not to put iOS on their desktop computers. Something Windows and GNOME/Ubuntu could learn from.

Re:No one cares (0)

gutoandreollo (1816754) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917867)

Yeah, but Apple is smart enough not to put iOS on their desktop computers.

Have you SEEN OSX 10.8? >_

Re:No one cares (3, Insightful)

smisle (1640863) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917973)

It still has menus and a docking panel at least. Most of the new features are additions to the OS rather than replacements. Integrating the desktop OS with mobile users is different than treating those desktop users as if they WERE mobile users.

Re:No one cares (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40918445)

Yeah, but Apple is smart enough not to put iOS on their desktop computers.

Have you SEEN OSX 10.8? >_

Yes I have but you clearly have not. The UI and the way you work is nothing like iOS. Even Launchpad (the most visible thing that is similar to iOS) works differently with a search bar at the top.

Re:No one cares (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917923)

"Yeah, but Apple is smart enough not to put iOS on their desktop computers."

In a single go perhaps. But each release of OSX shows more and more influence from iOS.

App store, lockdowns, single program view, they are simply raising the heat on the frog very slowly.

Re:No one cares (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917827)

Nobody mainstream gives a shit about Linux, they should just stop fucking it for the current users

Re:No one cares (4, Funny)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918399)

I am retarded you insensitive clod!

First post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917331)

Woo first post.

Erm... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917337)

Yeah, right. We're going to be interested in a Gnome OS, because the Gnome Desktop is *THAT* good.

Right? Right?

Hello? Is anyone listening...

Re:Erm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917841)

Yeah, right. We're going to be interested in a Gnome OS, because the Gnome Desktop is *THAT* good.

Right? Right?

Hello? Is anyone listening...

exactly.

better they keep working on their desktop, where they are only mediocre, rather than ruin a perfectly good OS.

Re:Erm... (2)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918231)

I'm using the Cinnamon fork of Gnome 3, and consider it to be elegant and useful.

Good lord NO!!!!! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917345)

Gnome needs to go quietly into the night. they have consistently ignored user feedback and are now confused as to why people are turning their back.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917405)

Have you tried Unity or KDE or the other stuff out there?

They're all crap.

Gnome at least is moving forward.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917421)

KDE is awesome. I like it. Gnome 3 is a steaming pile of crap, IMHO.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917477)

"Forward" is a relative term.

Granted Unity is abhorrent and has absolutely no redeeming features. KDE, meh, lost interest in it 10 years ago. Try Xfce.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917503)

Have you tried Unity or KDE or the other stuff out there?

They're all crap.

Gnome at least is moving forward.

I'd characterize Gnome's movement as Brownian.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (4, Funny)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917537)

I'd characterize Gnome's movement as Brownian.

So you're saying it's "crap"?

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

folderol (1965326) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917561)

Hmmm. I don't think it's actually as good as crap!

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918263)

Watch two-girls-one-cup, and I think you'll realize that there are some things that even Gnome 3 is better than.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917909)

unfortunately saying it's crap would let them off easy because the problem will have been identified.

op is spot on BROWNIAN, in a word describes the abject directionless management of the project for, like - forever.

A major issue for any open source project, and in this case, ultimately fatal for Gnome.

too bad, years ago I actually used .98 between crashes.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40918203)

I don't understand why people associate "crap" with "bad." I just made a crap, and it was awesome!

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918419)

I don't understand why people associate "crap" with "bad." I just made a crap, and it was awesome!

Wait - are you the guy who designed Unity?

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917599)

Have you tried Unity or KDE or the other stuff out there?

They're all crap.

Gnome at least is moving forward.

I'd characterize Gnome's movement as Brownian.

You're too good. I wouldn't characterize Gnome's movement as Bownian motion, rather they're in full mode retrograde motion. That's all there is to it. Lets hope they burn up in the atmosphere.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

lvxferre (2470098) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917653)

I like the analogy.
When heated, moves forward, backward, at amazing speeds, but never actually going anywhere.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (2)

miketheanimal (914328) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917545)

For a bit of fun, I tried Haiku-OS out yesterday. Its a bit limited, but dear god its fast - in a VirtualBox, boot to GUI in maybe 5 seconds. If someone - anyone - could produce a mainline Linux/GUI that performs anywhere near like that, they'll get my vote.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

knuthin (2255242) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918101)

It's probably got something to do with the boot processes more than the GUI. Try checking how much time it requires for you to boot into a non-X environment, and see how systemd helps (systemd boots into X in less than two seconds, but that is for Lennart Poettering :P)

It sounds scary, but if you can live with - and appreciate, Haiku's GUI, then you can also use something like Fluxbox. As scary it sounds, my shift to Awesome WM just made me more productive.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917829)

Sure, moving forward into irrelevance.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (2)

knuthin (2255242) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918065)

Gnome at least is moving forward.

Three years ago, I used GNOME because it was so intuitive, my mother could use it. Go back and think about how awesome it used to be.

After building the *drumrolls* for more than a year, GNOME3 was the crap we were presented. There are GNOME extensions made to make GNOME3 look like GNOME2 again (doesn't help, but the fact that they exist tells a lot)

Too bad, Xfce is the closest GNOME2-y thing these days. GNOME2 actually felt relevant.

Footnote: What touch device is running GNOME3 anyway?

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918503)

Whether Gnome2 was intuitive, I'm not sure. Gnome3 is probably a LOT more intuitive.

It's just also useless.

And not all of the missing Gnome2 features can switched back into existence. As far as I can tell, Gnome3 won't do toolbar applets at all.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (3, Interesting)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918467)

Have you tried Unity or KDE or the other stuff out there?

They're all crap.

Gnome at least is moving forward.

Not forward. Definitely not forward. Not even Brownian. Very definitely retrograde. It lost critical features of the earlier Gnome desktops.

Between that and the obsession of Gnome's original creator on Things Microsoft, I'd expect a Gnome OS to be a lot like Windows ME.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (2)

Scarred Intellect (1648867) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917499)

I'm just happy they committed to maintaining the desktop as the primary platform. I fully expected a fully integrated system that would support mobile apps and input methods including touchscreens and whatever garbled buzzwords they wanted to fit in there.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (2, Insightful)

SpzToid (869795) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917565)

Gnome 3 gets way too much hate on Slashdot. No, they did not photocopy The Mainstream, they re-engineered the GUI and underlying pinnings.

For me, I had to take a moment to consider what the devs delivered. I tried a lot of stuff, including Unity on my Netbook and Gnome 3 gets my vote for most-efficient window management and task-switching on the tiny netbook screen. From there, I cautiously tested, then upgraded my main Ubuntu workstation to Gnome 3 as well. For folks willing to seriously consider Gnome 3, here's a total of about 5(!) minutes of training videos on YouTube to fast-track your efforts: https://www.youtube.com/user/GNOMEDesktop [youtube.com]

Bottom line in my experience is I have successfully learned to manage my working windows more efficiently than before on both my workstation's double-monitors as well as my netbook's tiny screen. This is worth a lot to me going forward.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (-1, Offtopic)

ahabswhale (1189519) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917719)

That may be but there's no point to another linux distro that nobody gives a shit about. There's tons of them already. Yeah, they'll garner a 100 or so people who have some kind of Gnome hard-on but nobody else will give a shit. This is just more NIH crap. The problem with linux devs is that they all think they're a bunch of effing geniuses.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (2)

Urza9814 (883915) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917815)

Did you even bother to read the _summary_?

I know, I know -- of course not, this is Slashdot.

Seriously though, that's not the point. They don't WANT everyone to switch to their distro. It sounds more like an internal thing purely for testing and development. What's wrong with that?

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (2)

ahabswhale (1189519) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918175)

I still don't see the point. Proving your code works in some perfect world Gnome distro doesn't mean it will work in a consumer distro.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (4, Interesting)

garyebickford (222422) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918559)

No, but it does mean there is a known-working distro that distro-maintainers can refer to and compare to their own in development, to determine why feature X is working in the Gnome distro but not in theirs - that is a useful tool. It also means that a comparative testing environment can be set up, to automate (to some extent) the regression testing process. With a bit of camera and image processing work it might even become mostly-automated.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (2)

diegocg (1680514) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918035)

Wait, people needs training videos just to learn how to handle windows?

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (3, Interesting)

SpzToid (869795) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918223)

Sure, why not? It is not the same. It is different from what you were expecting, perhaps. So the devs have made an effort to document their work.

Like, previously I had no idea how to easily scale a window to consume exactly half of my display-space. But watching one of those short videos clarified it to me so I can make use of the feature. In fact, I later tried the same technique using Windows 7 and it also worked. I am pleased someone made the effort as easy as possible for me to learn [youtube.com] .

They re-engineer it too damn often (1)

knorthern knight (513660) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918643)

> Gnome 3 gets way too much hate on Slashdot. No, they did not photocopy
> The Mainstream, they re-engineered the GUI and underlying pinnings.

KDE and GNOME suffer from the "Microsoft Windows disease". Every time you learn the menus, etc, they change the GUI, and the way it operates. I expect a learning curve when switching to a new OS. But I should not have to repeat it every year or two.

I've been using ICEWM for several years, and it works. I have the bar on the bottom, with all apps and the launcher, plus a few dock applets. I prefer to spend my time doing real stuff, versus learning a "new and improved GUI" every year or two.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (3, Insightful)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917679)

It's a real pity Debian wheezy won't have MATE. I currently use XFCE+Compiz 8.4 at home, but XFCE lacks quite a bit of polish one could take for granted in Gnome 2. Gnome 3 needs a number of extensions for even basic usability, and considering the direction the upstream is going, things are going worse rather than better.

Joey Hess recently made a controversial commit of making XFCE the default desktop environment in the installer. I fully agree with him, and hope people will recognize this commit (if it prevails...) as another warning for Gnome. The reasons stated were lack of place on CD 1 and Gnome3 having a totally different interface based on graphics drivers, but hey, since usability regressions are always debatable, this works too. I guess it's easier to add missing bits to XFCE than trying to stop Gnome from going down.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

RDW (41497) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918457)

It's a real pity Debian wheezy won't have MATE.

Might be worth cutting out the middleman and using the upstream directly. The Mate guys maintain a Wheezy repository:

http://mate-desktop.org/install/#debian [mate-desktop.org]

I haven't tried this, but their equivalent Ubuntu repository works very well with 12.04.

Re:Good lord NO!!!!! (1)

fufufang (2603203) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918169)

Gnome needs to go quietly into the night. they have consistently ignored user feedback and are now confused as to why people are turning their back.

I reckon that's one more step toward irrelevance...

In the other news.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917385)

The GNOME Project got sued by

- Google for using a project name that could end in gOS
- Apple for using a name similar to iOS and round edged on icons
- ORACLE for using the letter O (Larry has a patent on beeing a rich asshole)

Re:In the other news.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917505)

I'm sorry, but the gnomes are just assholes. Rich doesn't enter the picture, and probably never will, unless you include Shuttleworth, though I would rate him more misguided than assholeish. Either way he doesn't hold a candle to Larry.

Goals (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917463)

We have set the goal of having a touch-compatible GNOME 3 within a maximum of 18 months.

Who cares about touch-compatible, what I want to know is when their goal for a non-touch compatible GNOME is? You know, for those of us still using a keyboard and mouse?

Re:Goals (3, Insightful)

graphius (907855) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917663)

At the risk of looking like a fool in 5 years or so (a la nomad vs ipod) I really don't see tablets taking off from where they are now. I can see them being popular consumption devices, and I can see them working in a very limited way for a few specialized projects, but I do not see the death of the desktop coming anytime soon.

Re:Goals (1)

Amiga Trombone (592952) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917989)

I expect you're right. I'm still waiting for the death of the mainframe. So far as I can tell the introduction of new platforms creates new markets for computing devices, but hasn't eliminated any old ones.

Re:Goals (3, Insightful)

someones (2687911) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918111)

Mainframes will never die. Their name will change, but they will never die.
"Cloud", im looking at you!

Re:Goals (1)

bazorg (911295) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918077)

Guessing the future always has that risk of making people look like idiots 5 years down the line. What I have seen in the recent past is that at Apple stores, there's no shortage of people of all ages poking at Macbook screens after they spent a few minutes experimenting with iPhones and iPads. Give a Kindle to a smartphone user and they poke and pinch the screen.Recent industry exhibitions had hybrid products on show, and Microsoft seems to expect laptops with touchscreens to take off.

I don't think that desktops will die any time soon, but that's because I don't write blog headlines for a living. Chances are, laptops and desktops will adopt touch screens in a similar way they adopted sound cards and trackpads.

Re:Goals (1)

mattr (78516) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918589)

Seriously. Did you see Curiosity Mission Control (JPL I think)? Several mac laptops were in use. One desk had a tablet in a clamp, a Mac laptop, and the standard two screens with keyboards, plus paper binders.

Yay, another Linux distro!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917471)

Just what the world needs to make Linux even more obscure than it already is.

wtf is wrong with gnome (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917485)

open source desktop computing has failed... long live OS X!

Re:wtf is wrong with gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917525)

*Not sure if being ironic or if that guy doesn't realize OSX is based on BSD.*

Re:wtf is wrong with gnome (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917689)

Perhaps that is the future: Companies willing to build upon open standards and base software, but make it propritary and closed enough to build a business upon.

Re:wtf is wrong with gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917859)

The OS X desktop environment is based on NeXSTEP. Saying a desktop environment is "based" on BSD makes no sense, but hopefully you're trolling and not actually a retard...

As long as they... (-1, Troll)

dicobalt (1536225) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917495)

make it easy for hardware manufacturers to create binary drivers that don't need to be fixed and patched with every little update. Otherwise it's just another obscure OS for tinkering.

Honestly (5, Interesting)

skipkent (1510) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917549)

Honestly, I'm in the market for just a plain 1:1 ripoff of win7's interface. It's minimalistic, flows well and allows me to get shit done. That is all.

Re:Honestly (4, Funny)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917631)

Don't worry, Microsoft is planning to fix that soon enough.

Re:Honestly (2)

kaiser423 (828989) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918149)

Yea. Windows 7 strikes a nice balance between being able to use the keyboard for just about everything, while providing a pretty full featured, but simple interface. I can navigate directories in the explorer GUI by typing just like I would in a shell, whether I click on the nav bar or just have focus, I can launch/search/whatever after pressing the command key, and so on and so forth. It's really just *polished* and I haven't seen anything nearly as good yet.

Hell, I had KDE4 latest version in a VM the other day, and I drug across a file from Windows onto the KDE desktop in VMWare. It copied fine, I I didn't drag to one of those folder/widget thingy's on the desktop, just the base desktop. Couldn't figure out how to move the file somewhere else. Did updatedb/locate, searched around manually, etc. Nothing could find the file. Posted in the Ubuntu forums, and was told that I wasn't supposed to drag files to *just* the desktop. That that didn't work. Suggested work-around was to just re-copy it across. I was floored. Apparently it was in some weird desktop DB backend or something that KDE uses. I never plan on using KDE4 again, if drag/drop of files can put them in places where I can't get to them.

Re:Honestly (1)

Abreu (173023) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918359)

Are you looking for http://zorin-os.com/ [zorin-os.com] maybe?

I don't believe it (1)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917559)

FTA: "...touch-compatible GNOME 3 within a maximum of 18 months...

WTF? I thought GNOME 3 was pretty much designed as a tablet GUI. It sure as hell wasn't designed with desktop users in mind. Are they suggesting they made those radical changes without thinking of touchscreens?

More reasons to go with Mate desktop (Gnome 2 fork).

All that's missing is a kernel (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917563)

Gnome has been providing a their own standardized user experience for some time now. It's good to see that their next step will be to replace the user with their own autonomous testing framework, at the very least that should reduce the public outcry for further changes to come. Next year, they will continue that effort by combining the legacy input devices with touch sense, so that touching the gui elements has the same effect as throwing your mouse against the screen. As a final step, they will sandbox their users to completely isolate them from the GUI, giving the designers full freedom without having to care about real-world usage.

I'm sure they'll complete their own kernel the year thereafter.

Re:All that's missing is a kernel (1)

lvxferre (2470098) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917673)

I'm sure they'll complete their own kernel the year thereafter.

I think GNOME OS will be ready to use Hurd as a kernel, so both will be launched at the same time. Right? Right???

Re:All that's missing is a kernel (1)

smisle (1640863) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917819)

I should HOPE they're planning on using Hurd, the GNU people have been working on it for decades ...

Well since its open source now (1)

LiroXIV (2362610) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917581)

Can we just make CDE the dominant *nix desktop again like the good ol' days? I'd rather have that over GNOME 3

Re:Well since its open source now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917701)

Sure, we just have to convince the various distribution leaders to drop Gnome, completely.
Unfortunately Debian has jumped the shark on that piece of shit that is Gnome 3. What a waste.

Gnome mission to Mars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917621)

Has the Gnome project considered launching a mission to Mars?

Re:Gnome mission to Mars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917669)

Has the Gnome project considered launching a mission to Mars?

Oh hell no, the martians would crucify us for sending over there the worst bunch of self deluded "software" developers and "gui designers" to ever have walk the earth. Damn, Marvin could declare war on us, and maybe Bugs Bunny would join Marvin's rebellion. Better to send the Gnometards off into the sun. No harm done to the solar system.

Start with HURD or kms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917641)

This is a FSF project, is it not? Then why don't they start by completing Hurd, and then building whatever is needed to enable Gnome to run on it w/o X? Also, make Gnome GPL3, & use this as an opportunity to make an all GPL3 OS. Seriously, the FSF is all over the place w/ OSs, be it 'Libre-Linux', Hurd or now GnomeOS. Make up your minds, people!

Oe else, the other thing they could do here - include all the functionality of X/Wayland in Gnome3, along w/ liberated GPU drivers, so that Gnome can be directly installed on any Unix - be it Linux, BSD, Hurd, Minix, OpenIndiana or whatever. Even that's a better idea than building an OS from scratch

The Inevitability of Mediocrity (2)

Rambo Tribble (1273454) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917647)

The mad dash toward the "one interface to rule them all" has given us nothing but a deepening dive into a universally cumbersome user interface. While few people converse with the same tone and measure with which they write, UI designers seem oblivious to the nuances that make a platform what it is.

Will developing an OS help Gnome get a handle on this problem? Or will the OS become a distraction, like Mono appears to have been?

I have a perfectly good OS already (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917675)

And no use for anything that gets in the way of it.

Good move.. time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917691)

It's time they focused on non desktop environments because most of their development has been of a non desktop environment. Forcing that on desktop users has been a little obnoxious.

I wish them luck in their new enterprise.

Keep the UI experts away and might have a chance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917709)

I noticed GNOME started its downhill slide when William Jon McCann decided that changing screensaver settings wasn't something the user needed to do.

Wait for the next thing (1)

jbmartin6 (1232050) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917733)

I am going to skip this and hold out for the Instagram OS

Good. (1, Insightful)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917745)

Now maybe they will go off on their own and leave Linux alone.

You had us, but you lost us. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917751)

Gnome is not being offered in most Linux destitutions, because Gnome developers were not supporting it. To fill in the gap there are new Gnome like desktops, such as Cinnamon and Mate which have new feature and are more friendly. So there is no reason to resurrect Gnome. Too bad because when they quit, they were on top.

Why? (5, Interesting)

glebovitz (202712) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917823)

There was a time when GNOME was a good idea. It works, it had support of vendors, and it evolved in a consistent fashion. I used it because it came with my distribution. Sometimes I used Ubuntu and other times Fedora, depending on my project. Both distributions supported GNOME and the difference from a user's perspective was small. Note that I was a professional Qt developer, but felt no urge to switch to KDE based on the my alliance with Qt.

Then came GNOME 3 with Fedora 16. I was baffled. The interface was not intuitive. It wasn't just the deviation from my expectations, but my total inability to do even the simplest task. I wrote to the project manager for Fedora and asked him what I should do, he suggested I try KDE. I am now using KDE as my desktop and find it manageable. There are lots of things I don't like, but it doesn't get it my way of doing work.

I own an iPad, iPhone, an Android Phone and Tablet, a Windows Phone 7, a Nokia N9, a MacBook and an Ultrabook running various Linux distributions and Windows 7. I am familiar and comfortable with touch screen devices and I think GNOME 3 is unusable. So excuse me if I don't buy the argument from GNOME that change is hard, and the release of GNOME 3 is all about the move from the desktop to touch devices. It is a bad, design that is unintuitive and clumsy and I pity the fools who decide it is a good platform for their product.

Re:Why? (1)

someones (2687911) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918055)

Exactly THIS.
I am on KDE too now, and i somehow like it.

Re:Why? (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918577)

I tried going to KDE because of my Gnome 3 / Unity hatred, but sadly KDE runs strangely slowly even on my fairly high-end laptop (Dell M6500).

I sucked it up and went with Mate, since it's reasonably close to Gnome 2.

Re:Why? (5, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918413)

Personally I find this whole deal with desktop interfaces to be a pretty big waste of resources, like rearranging toolbars and menus and trays and docks and plasmoids is what'll win people over. Maybe I'm just getting to be an old fart but my Win7 desktop in 2012 is looking pretty much like my Win95 desktop from 17 years ago. A launch icon, a taskbar of running apps and a tray of background services, most apps running in full screen. Maybe it's not new or fancy but it works pretty much like the steering wheel, gas and brake pedal of a car. They're instantly familiar and they do the job well enough.

Of course the back-ends have been rewritten many times over, to make sure whatever is behind the control panel and system provided tray icons is working but it looks mostly the same. And the apps have certainly improved, but really.... why is Gnome vs Unity vs KDE really still a big fighting issue? I mean seriously the OS is a means to an end to run applications, if you're spending so much time with it then you're doing it wrong. It's a bit like the people that spend more time tuning, styling and cleaning their car than they do driving it - you're kinda missing the point of it being a car. It's supposed to get you places.

lrn2modularity (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917881)

lrn2modularity, retards!

Stop doing everything. (1)

fph il quozientatore (971015) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917901)

So, Mozilla is planning to make Firefox an OS. Gnome is planning to make Gnome an OS. Kde, well, QT already contains libraries for doing almost everything, so we are not that far.

Do we have a trend here?

Re:Stop doing everything. (2)

TheDarkMaster (1292526) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918051)

And also interesting, all this "OSs" are simply Linux flavours, not really "new" OSs. Wake me up when someone really creates a original OS.

Re:Stop doing everything. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40918133)

And also interesting, all this "OSs" are simply Linux flavours, not really "new" OSs. Wake me up when someone really creates a original OS.

Why would you care? To the extent that the new OS is original, it will break backward compatibility. If it is not "just $EXISTING_OS", you won't be able to use it for real work.

damn it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917903)

Didn't you mean GNU/GNOME OS?

GNOME (1)

Curunir_wolf (588405) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917965)

Gnome developers ...

No thanks.

One more thing, though (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40917991)

Remember when Linus was extremely (and justifiably) enraged over how locked down it was, and how extensions just made the whole thing worse? In this case, we have the opportunity to have officially supported GNOME Shell extensions available through the GNOME repos, similar to Plasmoids.

Obviously it's still Linux so anybody who *wants* to create an extension and publish it is more than welcome to, but it'd be nice to have a list of officially supported Extensions. For people who learned how to use Shell and don't mind it, this might be a welcome change. Don't forget that KDE 4 was pretty unusable for the first three or four releases...

Prediction (1)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 2 years ago | (#40917993)

This will be the end of GNOME in most other distros. RH and Deb will probably figure out a way to make it work but others will drop it.

Why? Because the GNOME devs are going to start tightly coupling the desktop to things like init process and a file system layout. It will break all distro specific tools, and traditions and rather then write a bazillion patches distributors will simple stop packaging it.

Gnome died fro me with G3 (1)

someones (2687911) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918015)

Gnome 3 made me rethink my love for gnome. I switched to KDE4, which does not need much more ressources than gnome3.
And guess what: I started liking KDE.
You can change ANYTHING, the downside is, that you HAVE TO CHANGE ANYTHING, but when done, it does its work.

Really, gnome is becomming the next M$,Apple monolithic thingy.
They even ported the registry!

Hang on... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40918117)

Has anyone here heard about the new SolitareOS? It's slated to be an open source operating system with a playing-card style interface. Each application lives in the deck or on the tableau, to activate it, you move one of the app cards to one of the home cells. Application types must alternate to stack one on top of another, allowing them to run sort of simultaneously... a maximum of 52 apps is supported, 13 of each type... I mean, as long as people are starting to build entire operating systems around single pieces of software...

Remember the Atari 800? Each cartridge you popped in essentially loaded its own OS to do one principal thing, run that one game. The idea behind ChromeOS was similar, except instead of play a game, it was to browse the web. This is the same basic idea though, except that you can bolt a lot of functionality into a web browser, but you can theoretically add much functionality to a game too, so they're not so very different, a game and a web browser.

So now they're taking desktop environments that are meant to run as a client under the GUI environment SERVER, usually X, and going to elevate it to the status of development platform in it's own right. Was Gnome a victim of its own success? It's gotten to be such a pain in the ass recently that no one seems to want . Why do they continue? When will someone make a fork of Gnome, and call it Gnome II, (for 2) and have all the best features of 2, without having to force people to learn their new BS version of something they already know.

They aren't ready... (4, Interesting)

erroneus (253617) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918121)

... I don't know what other fundamental problems exist with GNOME, but one that sticks in my craw is one I discovered where I cannot run GiMP 2.8.0 on older Linux distros which use an older version of GiMP. The problem has to do with the version of GTK in use. Turns out the desktop environment uses a version (which is linked to theming and other UI elements such as IME (input method editors)) which is too old for GiMP 2.8.x and so it won't run. You can compile the newer libraries but you lose desktop integration, theming and other UI elements such as IME. This means I can run GiMP, but I can't enter Japanese characters into my work. Nice right?

The problem here is they are building an OS/Desktop environment the way people build applications. Sorry, but GTK is for applications...specifically for GiMP. I don't know what the correct or best answer might be, but clearly some sort of software engineering line has been crossed or muddied somewhere and no one on either side of the problem (GiMP or GNOME) want to address it.

So the result? Windows and Mac users get better support running GiMP than this Linux user. The answer most people suggest is "run a newer distro!" Sorry, but that's not a fix. Newer distros update too frequenly and it doesn't address the underlying problem. And if the "answer" is to run distros which update frequently, then holy crap... do we really need to go into why THAT is a bad idea? I use CentOS (RHEL) because it is stable and doesn't change. I can run the newest versions of all programs I use EXCEPT GiMP. (Sure, I have to compile some of them as packages aren't always available, but that's the way things go... I share the packages I make anyway.)

So with just knowing this much about the GNOME project, I have to say they just aren't ready. They aren't drawing those lines separating OS+Desktop environment and applications.

Re:They aren't ready... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40918187)

@ erroneous : You say this as if the Gnometards cared. Obviously they don't. If they could they would give linux the middle finger. Fuck them. About the Gimp, seriously something has to be done to decouple it from the Gnome/Gtk cancer. Otherwise one of the finest if not the best linux user program will go down the shithole.
It baffles the mind that I have a better Gimp experience in windows xp (for pete's sake) than I do on linux.

Re:They aren't ready... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40918347)

Among the plans for changes in "Application development and deployment" is to make it easy to ship libraries such as GTK+ as part of the application package. This makes it possible to use a different GTK+ version for GIMP and is closer to how applications are typically packaged for Windows and Mac.

If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you? (5, Insightful)

JDG1980 (2438906) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918123)

We have set the goal of having a touch-compatible GNOME 3 within a maximum of 18 months

Remember when your mom asked you "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?"

Well, apparently the GNOME developers' answer was "Yes."

Re:If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40918421)

You should read the two sentences preceding your quote as well. Existing laptops and desktops remain the primary focus. Touch-compatible should not be mixed up with moving away from non-touch devices.

Not a "good goal." (1)

aardvarkjoe (156801) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918271)

but spreading Free Software to a hardware ecosystem that is currently locked down and proprietary seems like a good goal to have.

Maybe in a vacuum it is. But do you have to kill the existing desktop environment to do it?

Unsurprising (1, Insightful)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 2 years ago | (#40918389)

Translation: "I'm bored with what I'm working on and I want a shiny new project to play with."

I'd be willing to bet that a few guys got tired of working on Unity, and there wasn't a whole lot going on elsewhere in Gnome, so they're trying to find something fun to do. I don't think that bodes well.

As RMS says (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40918487)

You mean GNU/Gnome OS...

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