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Digia To Acquire Qt From Nokia

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the well-that's-cute dept.

Linux Business 152

First time accepted submitter MrvFD writes "Ever since the most recent layoffs were announced by Nokia last month and the end of Qt related programs at Nokia was rumored, the fate of Qt has been in the air despite it nowadays having a working open governance model. Fear no longer, Qt brand, since Digia has now announced acquiring the Qt organization from Nokia. While relatively unknown company to the masses, it has already been selling the non-free (non-LGPL) licenses of Qt for 1.5 years. Hopefully this'll mean a bright future for Qt in co-operation with other Qt wielding companies like Google, RIM, Canonical, Intel, Skype, Microsoft, Jolla and the thousands of Qt open source and commercial license users. Digia now plans to quickly enable Qt on Android, iOS and Windows 8 platforms, where work has already been underway for some time."

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Good (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931179)

Good to hear. Maybe Digia can also push them to fix a number of the bugs they neglect since it doesn't fit into their mobile device circle jerk that never amounted to anything.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40933953)

Since they mentioned non lgpl above, does that mean that Digia will start selling qpl versions of Qt? Ideally, I'd prefer if KDE, Razor-qt and Qt all came under a single entity

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40933995)

Also, does this mean that Meego/Mer can be taken over by Digia & given a new life?

Digia ? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931191)

Is Digia a solid company ? as in: "profitable enough not to get bought in 6 months with Qt changing hands ... again"

Re:Digia ? (5, Informative)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931271)

They've been around for more than 15 years so take that for what you will. There is no guarantees that any company won't go under but they seem solid enough.

Re:Digia ? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931471)

They're a small company, mostly focused on ERP, and have a strong alignment with Microsoft. I'd say we can wave goodbye to QT for Linux/KDE in the not too distant future.

For more than ten years, Microsoft has been one of Digia’s key partners. Digia provides its customers with comprehensive solutions based on Microsoft technologies. Digia is actively developing its partnership in line with the Microsoft Partner Network programme.

http://www.digia.com/en/Home/Company/Technology-Partners/ [digia.com]

Pekka is a 3rd generation entrepreneur and founder of Digia, a publicly listed mobile sw-company, listed at NASDAQ OMX Helsinki. In this capacity he now acts as the Head of AppCampus, which is a 18 million euro grant fund established by Aalto University, Nokia and Microsoft.

Re:Digia ? (5, Insightful)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931553)

Uh huh. Except that many of their commercial licenses are contingent on Linux and Unix support hence why Digia continued to suppirt Linux and Unix platforms that Nokia officially dropped support for.

Re:Digia ? (1)

pwizard2 (920421) | more than 2 years ago | (#40933723)

I'd say we can wave goodbye to QT for Linux/KDE in the not too distant future.

If you have the source code, what would stop you from building it for Linux? If you need some obscure module, you may have to build from source anyway. Even if they do that, I'll keep using Qt 4 indefinitely. Qt 4.7 does everything I need it to, so it doesn't matter to me.

Re:Digia ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40934723)

Qt is still dual licensed under QPL & LGPL, so why say goodbye to it?

Re:Digia ? (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931749)

Their market cap is only about 50 million euro - significantly less than the 104 million euro Nokia paid for Trolltech back in 2008 and you get the rest of Digia for free. I'd wager that Digia paid less than 10 million for this, with Nokia taking a loss of over 90%, maybe even 99%. The thing is, I don't see who'd buy it today. Apple and Android have their own toolkits on mobile, Microsoft and Apple have their own toolkit on desktop so nobody needs it to sell hardware except maybe RIM. Going back to the dual GPL/commercial licensing model is nearly hopeless now that it's gone LGPL, people will fork off the last release and split the community. It's a nice product but I don't see how you'd make money on it.

Re:Digia ? (3, Interesting)

anared (2599669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40932255)

Jolla is using it and co-operating with the people at QT Project, you should also remember QT is widely used commercially, its not just end-user products such as PC and mobile devices. Support for Android, iOS, Jolla OS/Mer/MeeGo/RIM etc and Symbian, this could be the way to make multi-platform apps for mobile devices.

Re:Digia ? (3, Informative)

TemporalBeing (803363) | more than 2 years ago | (#40934373)

Their market cap is only about 50 million euro - significantly less than the 104 million euro Nokia paid for Trolltech back in 2008 and you get the rest of Digia for free. I'd wager that Digia paid less than 10 million for this, with Nokia taking a loss of over 90%, maybe even 99%. The thing is, I don't see who'd buy it today. Apple and Android have their own toolkits on mobile, Microsoft and Apple have their own toolkit on desktop so nobody needs it to sell hardware except maybe RIM. Going back to the dual GPL/commercial licensing model is nearly hopeless now that it's gone LGPL, people will fork off the last release and split the community. It's a nice product but I don't see how you'd make money on it.

Remember, Nokia bought all of TrollTech. Digia already purchased the Commercial Licensing from Nokia almost a year ago; and now they're purchasing most of the rest - that is, all the stuff that is Qt, but not necessarily all the people. For instance, on the Qt Dev/interest list it was noted they were assuming 125 people from Nokia; of a possible estimate of 150 max - some of which may have already left. And of course the Australian office was already closed by Nokia so they're not assuming that either (though they are getting the quite a bit of the equipment from what I can tell).

So just because they're only paying a fraction of what Nokia paid does not mean that they are actually paying less than Nokia did overall. You'd have to run the numbers and do a good comparison of what is actually getting transferred. If they are taking a loss, it's probably not much.

Re:Digia ? (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936819)

That might be true from Digia's point of view, hopefully they got value for their money but from Nokia's point of view they certainly bought something very expensive, produced very little with it and sold the rest for breadcrumbs. Laying off people certainly doesn't provide any revenue. Trolltech had about 250 employees when Nokia bought them, they've laid off a lot, transferred 19 employees in the last agreement and 125 employees now so I don't think there's many unaccounted for. Does Nokia really retain anything of value from their Trolltech acquisition? If not then the money Digia gave them is all they'll get, the rest is a dead loss.

Re:Digia ? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#40935265)

They said they're going to make official iOS and Android ports, and also start looking into Win8 and BB10. There is a shortage of portable UI toolkits right now in mobile - there's Mono, but it's not particularly portable on the UI side, and not everyone likes C#.

Re:Digia ? (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931829)

Digia [google.co.uk]

Annual Report [digia.com]

Market Cap of â55m so its not as big as say, RedHat, but it is bigger than Nokia... or will be in a few months :)

Incidentally, Nokia bought Qt from Trolltech for â104m... I don't think they sold it for anything near that amount.

Re:Digia ? (1)

Tester (591) | more than 2 years ago | (#40934481)

They've been around for more than 15 years so take that for what you will. There is no guarantees that any company won't go under but they seem solid enough.

Except that I'm pretty sure their biggest client was Nokia for most of these 15 years, so good luck to them.

Re:Digia ? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931429)

Is Digia a solid company ? as in: "profitable enough not to get bought in 6 months with Qt changing hands ... again"

Large ? well, depends who you compare to. Large enough when compared to whoever might buy Qt.

Profitable? well, not enough to keep all the employees they acquired and are now acquiring through the qt org. shuffle. part of it is so that Nokia doesn't need to fire the guys(there's rumours that the guys who had been previously transferred to Digia had package offers handed over to them quite soon after the transfer).

Profitability in previous years has been mainly from contracting in fields like Qt programming to Nokia. See the problem there? Digia got majorly fucked by Nokia's switch to Windows Phone and they had acquired a large number of the Qt organization before this already so this is not a surprise. But it remains to be seen if they can turn it profitable, however it's highly likely that they will cut the organization to some degree. During the Nokia days it apparently ballooned to thousands of devs working on Qt(With offices working on it in Finland, UK, Australia.. ), which was not good for Qt but was extremely lucrative to organizations like Digia, so there's some reasoning behind there why Nokia abandoned the platform as it was extremely expensive for them.

Posting as anon as I did a brief stint in the (dis)organization.

Re:Digia ? (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936749)

Nope.

They were whores who were totally dependent on nokia, and when nokia started heading resolutely down the path to doom and gloom last year, digia realised they were fucked, and started YT (co-determination) negotiations before any other consultancy in Finland. (Although only by a couple of days, there was a lot of fuckage at that time (and still is).)

That, and they're a MS house. I think this is bad news for Qt.

CNN Admits to being shill for Obama (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931205)

Leftists are all liars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcOJkzUrnx0

"Bill Burton at Priorities USA is now claiming that he did not intend to connect Romney to the death of Soptic’s wife. This is obviously a lie. Watch the video. There’s no other conclusion you can draw from it. This ad is so dirty that even the people who made it don’t want to take credit for it."

Re:CNN Admits to being shill for Obama (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931379)

"And finally, Bos, I just want to say thank you for Youkilis." –joking at a fundraiser in Boston about the Red Sox trading their beloved slugger Kevin Youkilis to Chicago White Sox, Obama's hometown team. The line drew boos from the audience. (June 25, 2012)

"When I meet with world leaders, what's striking -- whether it's in Europe or here in Asia..." -mistakenly referring to Hawaii as Asia while holding a press conference outside Honolulu, Nov. 16, 2011

"We're the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad." —Cincinnati, OH, Sept. 22, 2011

"We're not trying to push financial reform because we begrudge success that's fairly earned. I mean, I do think at a certain point you've made enough money. But, you know, part of the American way is, you know, you can just keep on making it if you're providing a good product or providing good service. We don’t want people to stop, ah, fulfilling the core responsibilities of the financial system to help grow our economy." —on Wall Street reform, Quincy, Ill., April 29, 2010

"One such translator was an American of Haitian descent, representative of the extraordinary work that our men and women in uniform do all around the world -- Navy Corpse-Man Christian Brossard." –mispronouncing "Corpsman" (the "ps" is silent) during a speech at the National Prayer Breakfast, Washington, D.C., Feb. 5, 2010 (The Corpsman's name is also Christopher, not Christian)

"The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries." --Tampa, Fla., Jan. 28, 2010

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009

"The Cambridge police acted stupidly." —commenting on a white police officer's arrest of black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. at his home in Cambridge, Mass., at a news conference, July 22, 2009

"The reforms we seek would bring greater competition, choice, savings and inefficiencies to our health care system." --in remarks after a health care roundtable with physicians, nurses and health care providers, Washington, D.C., July 20, 2009

"It was also interesting to see that political interaction in Europe is not that different from the United States Senate. There's a lot of -- I don't know what the term is in Austrian, wheeling and dealing." --confusing German for "Austrian," a language which does not exist, Strasbourg, France, April 6, 2009

"No, no. I have been practicing...I bowled a 129. It's like -- it was like Special Olympics, or something." --making an off-hand joke during an appearance on "The Tonight Show", March 19, 2009 (Obama later called the head of the Special Olympics to apologize)

"I didn't want to get into a Nancy Reagan thing about doing any seances." --after saying he had spoken with all the living presidents as he prepared to take office, Washington, D.C., Nov. 7, 2008 (Obama later called Nancy Reagan to apologize)

"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." -- defending his tax plan to Joe the Plumber, who argued that Obama's policy hurts small-business owners like himself, Toledo, Ohio, Oct. 12, 2008

"What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith..." --in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, who jumped in to correct Obama by saying "your Christian faith," which Obama quickly clarified (Watch video clip)

"I'm here with the Girardo family here in St. Louis." --speaking via satellite to the Democratic National Convention, while in Kansas City, Missouri, Aug. 25, 2008

"Let me introduce to you the next President -- the next Vice President of the United States of America, Joe Biden." --slipping up while introducing Joe Biden at their first joint campaign rally, Springfield, Illinois, Aug. 23, 2008

"Just this past week, we passed out of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee -- which is my committee -- a bill to call for divestment from Iran as way of ratcheting up the pressure to ensure that they don't obtain a nuclear weapon." --referring to a committee he is not on, Sderot, Israel, July 23, 2008

"Let me be absolutely clear. Israel is a strong friend of Israel's. It will be a strong friend of Israel's under a McCain...administration. It will be a strong friend of Israel's under an Obama administration. So that policy is not going to change." --Amman, Jordan, July 22, 2008

"How's it going, Sunshine?" --campaigning in Sunrise, Florida

"On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today -- our sense of patriotism is particularly strong."

"Hold on one second, sweetie, we're going to do -- we'll do a press avail." --to a female reporter for ABC's Detroit affiliate who asked about his plan to help American autoworkers (Watch video clip)

"I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go." --at a campaign event in Beaverton, Oregon (Watch video clip)

"Why can't I just eat my waffle?" --after being asked a foreign policy question by a reporter while visiting a diner in Pennsylvania

"It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." --explaining his troubles winning over some working-class voters

"The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know, you know, there's a reaction that's been bred in our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society."

"Come on! I just answered, like, eight questions." --exasperated by reporters after a news conference

"You're likeable enough, Hillary." --during a Democratic debate

"In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died -- an entire town destroyed." --on a Kansas tornado that killed 12 people

Borland (1, Insightful)

leokolln (1391553) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931213)

I see Embarcadero buying Borland history repeating itself... Sad...

Re:Borland (2, Insightful)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931313)

Embarcado bought CodeGear not Borland. CodeGear being the spunoff company from Borland to handle Delphi/C++ Builder, etc. Borland was bought by Micro Focus.

Re:Borland (1, Funny)

leokolln (1391553) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931435)

Good Insight! Thanks.

The had a booth at SIGGRAPH this week (-1)

peter303 (12292) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931225)

I checked to see their latest offerings.

Re:The had a booth at SIGGRAPH this week (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931251)

I checked to see their latest offerings.

Well that clears everything up!

Re:The had a booth at SIGGRAPH this week (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931815)

I checked to see their latest offerings.

Well that clears everything up!

Thank you for that in-depth analysis!

in related news... (4, Insightful)

bmo (77928) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931367)

Nokia sells patents to a patent troll: suicide by M$ almost complete.

  http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120809005600/en/Vringo-Nokia-Execute-Patent-Purchase-Agreement [businesswire.com]

That's it for Nokia....all the talent has left, and now they sold the last real assets to a troll. M$'s trail of destruction continues.

- credit to phands on IV for pointing this out.

--
BMO

"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but... (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931743)

Hey, you may be right: who needs the decades of know-how in building great phone hardware, the global logistical network, the long-held relationships with operators and sales channels... This all has been eliminated in a poof of universal Windows Phone hate ('cause everybody thinks about it exactly like you do), where Symbian was not a problem at all.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (2)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 2 years ago | (#40932231)

Hey, you may be right: who needs the decades of know-how in building great phone hardware, the global logistical network, the long-held relationships with operators and sales channels... This all has been eliminated in a poof of universal Windows Phone hate ('cause everybody thinks about it exactly like you do), where Symbian was not a problem at all.

I don't see very much Windows Phone hate. Mostly I see wonder at how Microsoft could be so late to this party and mild amusement at their struggle to remain relevant in that market. As for the MS/Nokia deal and considering who Nokia's CEO is, it doesn't take much tin foil to realize that something smells bad there.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#40933303)

Honestly I read his article in Business week where he outlined the logic. The whole thing makes sense. Nokia was desperate and need the cash plus a credible OS to run on their hardware. Balmer wanted the credibility Nokia bought him and had cash. It was a dangerous play but I don't buy it was corrupt. It makes a lot of sense for the board / shareholder's perspective where chewing up the equity and bankruptcy are roughly equivalent.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (2)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | more than 2 years ago | (#40933489)

Nokia was desperate and need the cash plus a credible OS to run on their hardware.

Except; this was a lie.

  • Nokia was profitable!
  • Nokia had increasing sales! Including increasing sales of "smartphones"!!
  • Nokia had a huge cash mountain (> 5Billion Dollars!!)

If you had just taken Nokia's spare money, put it into a separate company and started building a mobile phone based on Android, recruiting people from scratch, you would have had a very good chance of getting into a major position in the market. It's well worth looking at some of the graphs which show how Nokia's Symbian sales only started going down after the "Eliop Effect" made everyone think they were a dead end.

His logic was good, but his facts were completely wrong. If you pick up a gun; decide for no apparent reason that it's a "wrong way round gun", and then shoot yourself, it's not your logic which is at fault. Grip on reality? Maybe? Sanity? Yes.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (2)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#40934243)

If you had just taken Nokia's spare money, put it into a separate company and started building a mobile phone based on Android, recruiting people from scratch, you would have had a very good chance of getting into a major position in the market

If the shareholders could have easily gotten equity out of Nokia there wouldn't have been a problem. But under the labor rules they had layoffs were going to cost the company a pretty penny. They couldn't get the money out.

Nokia was profitable!
Nokia had increasing sales! Including increasing sales of "smartphones"!!
Nokia had a huge cash mountain (> 5Billion Dollars!!)

Absolutely. Symbian was still doing well but....
1) They had decreasing sales on the high end.
2) Margins were collapsing
3) Their Meego / Maemo strategy wasn't ready to go. It wasn't until 2011 they released the N9 and that phone is priced much to high for the hardware.

I don't think that Elop's facts were wrong. Assume the N9 comes out June 2011 at $550 ballpark comparable to the iPhone 4 though a bit cheaper. The Samsung Galaxy II is out. The 4S comes out 1 quarter later. How do you sell 100m of those N9s at that price point? I don't see it, so the the N9 is a great phone that sells at best a few million. Now it does have the realistic potential to be a $250 phone by 2014 / 2015 and replace Symbian low end base all over the world. I just don't see how Nokia had 5 years, based on Symbian given how much staff / overhead they had.

Elop needs Balmer's cash. If you see some way to get around that, tell me the plan that works. How do they get people transition from Symbian to Meego during the 2010-2014 time frame without viable Meego / Maemo phones?

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936979)

And you may add one more to that list:
4) The world market for cheap phones - Nokia's bread and butter - is saturating. We have 6 billion cell phone subscriptions now, pretty soon you run out of new people to sell phones to. Nokia will get much less business selling replacements, not to mention the rich buy smartphones saturating the second hand market with cheap but usable dumb/feature phones. Nokia could not afford to stand still.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (1)

mystikkman (1487801) | more than 2 years ago | (#40934385)

>Nokia was profitable!

True, like RIM was profitable last quarter.

>Nokia had increasing sales! Including increasing sales of "smartphones"!!

Everyone with half a brain cell knew Symbian was not sustainable. Apple and Android were just taking their time in Asia and Europe.

>Nokia had a huge cash mountain (> 5Billion Dollars!!)

That doesn't mean anything really, without data on debt, assets, bonds etc.

>If you had just taken Nokia's spare money, put it into a separate company and started building a mobile phone based on Android, recruiting people from scratch, you would have had a very good chance of getting into a major position in the market.

You mean like HTC that's suffering horribly now?

http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/09/htc-criticism-2012-apple-samsung-competition/ [bgr.com]
http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/07/htc-q3-2012-earnings-guidance-market-cap/ [bgr.com]

>Symbian sales only started going down after the "Eliop Effect" made everyone think they were a dead end

Symbian had to be dropped like a hot potato to save the company. The Nokia execs working on Symbian did everything they can to kill Meego/Maemo for their personal benefit thus making Nokia suffer hugely even before Elop was hired.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (3, Insightful)

TemporalBeing (803363) | more than 2 years ago | (#40934549)

Honestly I read his article in Business week where he outlined the logic. The whole thing makes sense. Nokia was desperate and need the cash plus a credible OS to run on their hardware. Balmer wanted the credibility Nokia bought him and had cash. It was a dangerous play but I don't buy it was corrupt. It makes a lot of sense for the board / shareholder's perspective where chewing up the equity and bankruptcy are roughly equivalent.

Nokia didn't need anything. And in all reality their Maemo/MeeGo devices outsell the Windows Phone devices when in the same markets. They had a credible OS and one they didn't need to pay someone else for. And as someone else pointed out, they were profitable and didn't need the cash. Their ability to remain profitable changed only after they started pursuing Windows at all costs.

If you want to get an accurate picture of what Microsoft and Stephen Elop did - try reading this blog [blogs.com] from a former Nokia Exec that is highly respected in Mobile Phone Sales. You'll see why Nokia is doing so poorly and having to sell off everything, and why Windows Phone will be a no-go (and who made it such).

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936021)

And in all reality their Maemo/MeeGo devices outsell the Windows Phone devices when in the same markets.

Their Maemo/MeeGo devices don't sell nearly enough to sustain a company Nokia's size. If Nokia was a small company the N9 would have been awesome. Elop BTW agrees, that they might be able to get the N9 down to around $250 by 2014/2015 and then they do have a viable device. The problem was he didn't have enough money to last that long.

Certainly customers hate the Lumia and that hasn't worked out for Nokia yet, and may not work out. But the problem with MeeGo devices when we start talking about sustaining Nokia was the ability to produce something inexpensive enough to transition their Symbian base quickly enough. I've read Tomi's blog. Its an interesting blog. But he tends to think like a guy who works for Nokia not a control investor. The people who held Nokia's bonds didn't share Tomi's opinions about Nokia's prospects. Nokia was at $40 a share in late 2007 and at $15 a share when Elop came in. If there had been a MeeGo phone like the N9 when he showed up with a strategy to cut the cost of manufacture there never would have been an alliance with Microsoft.

Now don't get me wrong I think Tomi's criticism of the terrible job Elop did in managing the transition are spot on. But I don't have access to the T&C with Microsoft. I don't know that Microsoft, after the fiasco with LG, can afford to let Nokia sink and the strategy may always have been: heads Windows works out and the investors get profits from Windows, tails Windows 7 flounders and Microsoft buys Nokia the time it needs.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (2, Informative)

TemporalBeing (803363) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936611)

And in all reality their Maemo/MeeGo devices outsell the Windows Phone devices when in the same markets.

Their Maemo/MeeGo devices don't sell nearly enough to sustain a company Nokia's size. If Nokia was a small company the N9 would have been awesome. Elop BTW agrees, that they might be able to get the N9 down to around $250 by 2014/2015 and then they do have a viable device.

The N9 and its cousins without any marketing (promotions, discounts, etc.) sold at full price and outsold its Lumia brethren which had millions of dollars in marketing (promotions, discounts, etc.). The Maemo/MeeGo OS also would have run on a lot cheaper devices than they can run the Windows Phone OS on. So I call bull - especially on it coming from Elop. If Nokia pursued Maemo/MeeGo on their phones they could easily have transitioned to it from Symbian. If they had put out the N9 and its brethren in sufficient quantity they could have lowered the price through volume discounts. Instead, under the direction of Elop, they did the least possible - low volume kept the price high, no marketing meant lower sales than they could have had, etc. It was simply a matter of he didn't want the Maemo/MeeGo platform to outshine the Windows platform - which, ironically, it did anyway only proving how strong a platform it is. Jolla will have a good business at Nokia expense as a result.

The problem was he didn't have enough money to last that long.

They had plenty of money, and plenty of sales to last that long. Nokia was far larger than the smart phone market and dominated the phone market around the world. The exception was the US where they didn't dominate the smart phone market, and were not quite as strong in the feature phone and dumb phone markets. However, the rest of their business more than offset it. Until Elop, his direction for abandoning Maemo/MeeGo, and his statements about abandoning Symbian for Windows in a very short time frame Nokia was very profitable. And, btw, it's hard to destroy a company like Elop did to Nokia, and as the article I linked to shows the shareholders have a very good likelihood for a successful lawsuit against him for what he's done - in 3 different countries nonetheless.

Certainly customers hate the Lumia and that hasn't worked out for Nokia yet, and may not work out. But the problem with MeeGo devices when we start talking about sustaining Nokia was the ability to produce something inexpensive enough to transition their Symbian base quickly enough. I've read Tomi's blog. Its an interesting blog. But he tends to think like a guy who works for Nokia not a control investor. The people who held Nokia's bonds didn't share Tomi's opinions about Nokia's prospects. Nokia was at $40 a share in late 2007 and at $15 a share when Elop came in. If there had been a MeeGo phone like the N9 when he showed up with a strategy to cut the cost of manufacture there never would have been an alliance with Microsoft.

Now don't get me wrong I think Tomi's criticism of the terrible job Elop did in managing the transition are spot on. But I don't have access to the T&C with Microsoft. I don't know that Microsoft, after the fiasco with LG, can afford to let Nokia sink and the strategy may always have been: heads Windows works out and the investors get profits from Windows, tails Windows 7 flounders and Microsoft buys Nokia the time it needs.

Who knows what the strategy was. As the blog noted, the board had to be involved in the decision for such things to go on without Elop's head rolling (thus they're liable too).

Share value is not a metric of how successful a company is, but rather a metric on how willing others are to bet on the success of the company. You can be the most successful company in the world and have a zero share price; or the worst in the world and have a very high share price.

Only time will tell if the investors truly agree with Elop. For now, they seem to be sitting on the sidelines; but they may be waiting for another shoe to fall (or so to speak) before doing anything more.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936901)

The N9 and its cousins without any marketing (promotions, discounts, etc.) sold at full price and outsold its Lumia brethren which had millions of dollars in marketing (promotions, discounts, etc.).

It's a myth made out of thin air and circular web references.

The Maemo/MeeGo OS also would have run on a lot cheaper devices than they can run the Windows Phone OS on.

Tall tales from the fandom, too. Earlier N9 prototypes had 512 MiB of RAM; they had to bump it to 1 GiB because the software couldn't be fit to run without endless swapping. Windows Phone 7 has no problem running on half a gig even now.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936995)

While about 5% of what Ahonen says is insightful, about 95% of it is just inane gibbering. His blog is best avoided.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (2)

Locutus (9039) | more than 2 years ago | (#40932355)

decades of building great phone hardware which then had to be scaled back because the OS didn't support current hardware and then 2 years after the deal a new version is forced on them which is incompatible. That's great for the hardware designers, great for their global logistics network, great for their operator and sales channels. They are becoming great at shrinking lots of great resources.

FYI, it was a poor choice because the OS sucked, was outdated and already had a shrinking market share after many years on the market. It just so happens that it was such a great technology company like Microsoft who built and owns that product and I happen to know them too well.

LoB

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 2 years ago | (#40933061)

decades of building great phone hardware which then had to be scaled back because the OS didn't support current hardware

By "current hardware" you must mean multi-core CPUs, which Nokia hasn't yet put on any device? Neither did they go beyond 800x600 screens. The cameras in top-tier Lumias are pretty adequate. So, there was nothing to scale back.

and then 2 years after the deal a new version is forced on them which is incompatible. That's great for the hardware designers, great for their global logistics network, great for their operator and sales channels.

It's not great, but neither it is a big issue. Not all users are novelty junkies, and WP7 devices don't suddenly stop being useful because there's a new version out. Ask the users of all the dirt-cheap Gingerbread phones that are pumping up Android sales statistics.

FYI, it was a poor choice because the OS sucked, was outdated and already had a shrinking market share after many years on the market.

I see you are confused about Windows Phone vs Windows Mobile. The rest of your comment does not look well-informed either.

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (1)

Karlt1 (231423) | more than 2 years ago | (#40935961)

"Hey, you may be right: who needs the decades of know-how in building great phone hardware, the global logistical network"

Both Apple and Samsung have better logistics networks and are able to get components cheaper. Nokia's logistic network has been decimated over the past year or two.

"the long-held relationships with operators"

They are reducing the number of operators....

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/07/if-apple-is-running-away-from-this-strategy-and-samsung-growing-by-opposite-strategy-why-is-elop-try.html [blogs.com]

"and sales channels."

http://www.zdnet.com/nokia-confirms-layoffs-pulls-back-sales-channels-in-china-7000000781/ [zdnet.com]

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/6/15/how-to-stop-nokia-channel-boycott-and-save-the-company.aspx [brightsideofnews.com]

Re:"M$" already gives you off as a neckbeard, but. (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 2 years ago | (#40937011)

I'm not saying Nokia is at the top of its game now, but those things are worth something, and they can be improved, unless we all believe in made-up stories such as the "Elop effect" and market rejection of Lumia phones.

Re:in related news... (1)

mystikkman (1487801) | more than 2 years ago | (#40934263)

- credit to phands on IV for pointing this out.

What's IV?

Re:in related news... (1)

recoiledsnake (879048) | more than 2 years ago | (#40934769)

Nokia sells patents to a patent troll: suicide by M$ almost complete.

  http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120809005600/en/Vringo-Nokia-Execute-Patent-Purchase-Agreement [businesswire.com]

That's it for Nokia....all the talent has left, and now they sold the last real assets to a troll. M$'s trail of destruction continues.

- credit to phands on IV for pointing this out.

--
BMO

Last real assets? Get real.
Those are just a miniscule 500 of the tens of thousands of patents that Nokia holds. Barely a drop in the bucket.

Phands? Is that the same phands who frequents Yahoo Message Boards and trolls them with foul mouthed language? I am not surprised you're hooking up with him/it.

On the other hand, I should've just stopped reading at 'M$'. Usually what follows is juvenile junk, and your post did not fail to disappoint. As usual, no references to back your outlandish claims based on headlines or stock prices.

'..suicide by M$'? Maybe you mean homicide. Your English is as bad as your comprehension skills.

Natalie+Jar-Jar is a push, though (-1, Offtopic)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931451)

A company I've never heard of to acquire something I've never heard of from a company going out of business. Nice.

In the summer of '77, I was playing around-the-world in the driveway at dusk and my grandma was visiting. My little brother came tearing out of the house, "Look what Gramma brought us! (Spins it around) Star Wars!"

"So what?" I had never heard of it.

I assume this is like that.

Re:Natalie+Jar-Jar is a push, though (2)

TheNinjaroach (878876) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931549)

A company I've never heard of to acquire something I've never heard of from a company going out of business. Nice.

Just because you've never heard of it, doesn't mean it's not important. Are you sure you're reading the right newsfeed?

Re:Natalie+Jar-Jar is a push, though (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931571)

You've never heard about Qt? Seriously?
Do you go around telling people you don't own a TV too?

Re:Natalie+Jar-Jar is a push, though (1)

glebovitz (202712) | more than 2 years ago | (#40932117)

What?? There was world wide financial collapse??? When did that happen??? Guess it's not important because I didn't know about it.

Re:Natalie+Jar-Jar is a push, though (1)

HiThere (15173) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936037)

Yes. An excellent analogy.

But for now the question is "What does this mean for Qt?" I really doubt that the company is currently a patent troll. OTOH, the posts about where it has been getting its money aren't reassuring, and they may be driven to it. The gripping hand is that the LGPL is powerful magic. On the fourth hand, running a major project like Qt isn't something that can be set up quickly and do well. What percentage of the developers are external to the company? (My guess is rather few, perhaps none.)

If forking Qt were a minor problem, then KDE would have done it when Trolltech was bought. It may be technically possible...well, it's certainly *technically* possible...but I'm not at all sure that it's practical on any short timespan.

rename Digia as Trolltech (5, Insightful)

mamas (468872) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931463)

Good.

Now Digia should acquire the Trolltech trademark as well if they haven't, and rebrand themselves as Trolltech. Then everyone could forget Nokia ever happened.

Re:rename Digia as Trolltech (3, Insightful)

tangent3 (449222) | more than 2 years ago | (#40935999)

If Nokia never happened, there wouldn't have been an LGPL version of Qt.

1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

Locutus (9039) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931487)

and had to have their blessing. Not to mention that they took over an existing business of managing existing licensees so that is no proof they are not here and have not been contracted to shut it down orderly. Is there proof anywhere that they are growing that business by growing customers?

Since the late 1980s, I've never seen Microsoft not want to shut down a cross platform development platform of any appreciable size. I doubt very much the Nokia deals were the first and especially not with Elop at the helm of Nokia. IMO

LoB

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (3, Insightful)

scorp1us (235526) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931563)

It doesn't really matter Qt is under open governance. And if the toolkit is failed to be released, it all goes BSD. So begin that speculation. If MS "killed" Qt, it would free it. MS has two possible position here:
1. Qt as LGPL or commercial. This limits Qt more than:
2. Qt as BSD. A top-notch C++ library that runs on all platforms would be competition to .NET.

I believe that #2 is the worst outcome for MS, especially given their failing position in approval (Win 8, Win Phone). The only benefit to #2 for MS is they can run Qt themselves, but they won't because .NET is their baby.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (0)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931667)

Microsoft is killing .NET in preference for their new -whatever- products in 2012 and W8, though. They want to push people further 'up the stack'.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931841)

Where does this bullshit continue to come from? .Net isn't going anywhere - .Net 4.5 is due for RTM in a couple weeks, .Net 5.0 is under development and .Net (5.5/6.0) is being talked about. .Net is a first class environment in Windows 8 - this bullshit about it being dumped only came about because an MS rep refused to talk about .Net in any depth at a conference based around something completely different. Somehow that got misconstrued (perhaps deliberately, if some people are continuing to propagate the myth) by people on Ars and here on Slashdot to mean MS was dropping .Net - they aren't. Suck it up.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931927)

Bear in mind Microsoft said exactly the same things about Silverlight. The initial issues came from Build 2011 where all the technical streams were about C++ and HTML, .NET was rarely mentioned. That made people think MS's focus was no longer .NET. I think it was Mary-Jo Foley who reported this initially.

I doubt .NET is going away, but its no longer the first-class development platform that sucks up all the MS development resources. You could think of it as the 'new VB'. What you cannot think of it as is the be-all and end-all of Windows development, not nowadays.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40932863)

Meh, .net was never the be-all-end-all. MS is talking up C++ again because that's what their ISVs have been using all along.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (2)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#40932965)

Not being mentioned is not the same as dropping - and the situation was clarified in the days after the story was "broken", so why are people still posting bullshit about it a year later? FUD, thats why.

Microsofts effort on C++ is not replacing .Net - it's being brought up to the same level of development effort so it can stand beside .Net as a development environment rather than staying as the step child that it had become in recent years. They were bringing it up to scratch because people wanted it, not because its replacing .Net.

Both are intended to be your first-class development platforms on Windows.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

TemporalBeing (803363) | more than 2 years ago | (#40934805)

Watching the Win APIs targets for the last year or so, it seems:
  • Microsoft tried to drop MFC/ATL/STL in favor of .Net C++/CLI, C#, VB.Net/VB#, etc. prior to Win8.
  • MFC is dead-end. It hasn't been properly maintained since WinXP; a rev was done for Vista but only to update it for Vista's APIs. same for Win7.
  • With Win8, they seem to be bringing back Native C++ more, but you get two options: (i) Native C++ with WinRT API, or (ii) the Native C++ with the deprecated Win32 API. Only one of which will run on all Win8 platforms.
  • With Win8, .Net is elevated to a higher role in the system, but only if you use it with the WinRT API. You could also do HTML5+WinRT as well.

So, for Win8 .Net seems to be getting scaled back quite considerably as to really be that first class citizen it needs to be using the WinRT APIs - avoiding nearly all of Win32, etc. And of course if you want your app in the Windows App Store, then it has to do that too. As a result, expect to have a split in .Net - one that supports Win32 for "classic" desktop, and one that supports WinRT for Win8 platforms.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#40935331)

So, for Win8 .Net seems to be getting scaled back quite considerably as to really be that first class citizen it needs to be using the WinRT APIs - avoiding nearly all of Win32, etc. And of course if you want your app in the Windows App Store, then it has to do that too. As a result, expect to have a split in .Net - one that supports Win32 for "classic" desktop, and one that supports WinRT for Win8 platforms.

That split has already existed between desktop .NET and Silverlight/WinPhone. In fact, the subset of .NET in WinRT apps is very close to what it was in Silverlight.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#40933351)

Microsoft has been rather inconsistent in their developer announcements for years. They've been changing their roadmaps frequently. I don't think it is unreasonable that people are starring to speculate.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

scorp1us (235526) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931955)

That reason alone is why people should switch to Qt. I remember when in 2001 MS Posix support was jsut good enough that you could write posix programs in windows and unix. Then they came out with .NET, which re-invented the wheel, which has Windows Forms and WPF and old school MFC ways of making an app. (Java did it too with Swing and AWT). Qt now has two itself - C++ and QML, but the idea is they don't skin the same kind of cat.

With MS you have to continually learn the latest and greatest. With Qt you never have to.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

TemporalBeing (803363) | more than 2 years ago | (#40934881)

With Qt your skills still stay very relevant; but you still do need to learn newer APIs as they come along just as with anything else. However, those APIs are more developer demanded than feature demanded based on the goals of one entity (e.g. Microsoft) due to its open source nature. (Yes, the commercial owners - TrollTech, Nokia, and now Digia - have had the ability to push new APIs for their needs, but it's still mostly developer oriented.)

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936141)

Jesus H. Christ, how long are you guys going to parrot this nonsense? Is this some sort of anti-.NET marketing strategy being pushed by competitors or something? Microsoft is not killing .NET. They never said they were killing .NET. They have a new version on the horizon, and even further out still, more versions in the works.

All this because of one talk that wasn't centered on .NET. It's amazing how the world freaks out over absolutely nothing.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

glebovitz (202712) | more than 2 years ago | (#40932461)

Lets look at MS challenges:

1) The release of the Surface is saying fuck you to their channel. Acer CEO just reacted to the Surface announcement by saying they would look at alternatives such as Android.

2) All of MS's recent announcements surround Metro UI, ARM tablets, and Cloud services.

3) .NET and all of the related PC based services will continue to be supported and evolved. MS will not kill off their bread and butter business until people start eating their new cupcakes in mass volume.

4) Qt? Microsoft doesn't care. If Digia focused on supporting Metro UI with Qt then I doubt MS would pay much attention. All they would need is a C++ SDK for WIndows 8. (the biggest barrier to Qt on WIndows Phone 7 was the lack of a public C++ SDK). Microsoft seems to be pushing HTML5 and Javascript for lighter weight apps. I think they see this as the volume market for apps.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | more than 2 years ago | (#40933513)

dotnet was there baby now WinRT with HTML5/CSS/Javascript is the baby. wait a week qt might be next

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

scorp1us (235526) | more than 2 years ago | (#40933709)

You mean QML. :-)

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40934129)

By your logic, they could kill Qt by releasing it as GPL 3. It would then be available, but few would want to touch it

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

Locutus (9039) | more than 2 years ago | (#40935077)

yes but it would also be better if a financially funded company with a real interest in moving it forward was in control. So how would be a way to effectively kill it or greatly limit it.... get it in control of a company, pay them or make them a deal they can't refuse, and have them sit on it and do very little with it while all the time saying in a blog or two that things are happening.

Seriously, it's still not too difficult to keep it from growing outside of the free/open source side of things and without some financial backing to keep things rolling it'll fade while still sticking around. .Net their baby? I thought they were backing off on both Silverlight and .Net for whatever they are calling the Windows 8 metro stuff.

LoB

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931595)

And how will they 'shut it down'? It's used by hundreds of commercial companies so Digia would only ge costing themselves revenue. Also it will fall under a BSD license if no releases are made for a certain period. Lastly, Microsoft itself has been a Qt licensee for some time now. Long before any relationship with Nokia happened. But don't let facts get in the way of your conspiracy.

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (1)

Locutus (9039) | more than 2 years ago | (#40935333)

Microsoft has worked very hard to shut down many cross platform development environments since they remove API control away from themselves and Windows. That is fact. Microsoft is directly tied to/with Nokia. another fact and Nokia quickly jettison'ed the income generating portion of their Qt business after the deal.. another fact.

Yes it could go BSD if it was completely dropped. But if it was a benefit to Windows for it to die off and not go to a BSD license then they just need to pay the company now managing it and 'ask' them to let it stagnate but make it look like it's getting attention.

LoB

Re:1.5years means the deal was made with Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931615)

You can't kill Qt by killing it.
You can only kill it by keeping it in fake development mode that just makes the product worse while still being the official branch.

The greatness of Qt (3, Interesting)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931617)

It really is a shame that Qt has languished in relative obscurity for so many years. It really is a great toolkit (and I say that as a non-programmer who has only dabbled with it).

It's relatively simple, consistent, and has a large number of Windows-like constructor tools. It can be easily bound with many different other languages to construct a working program in a fairly short period of time. It's cross platform, running on everything*. The CPU overhead is relatively negligible (sans a massive framework like KDE).

It really astounds me that it's remained so cursory over the past decade or so. We had things like Qtopia way back in '00, and then it kind of went nowhere, even though there have been a lot of promising projects where it's been used - it's just fallen short of dominating like I'd have expected it to have. For instance, it was used in Maemo - but then replaced with something GTK-based. Why?

Re:The greatness of Qt (4, Informative)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931641)

How is it 'obscure'? It's widely used in large and small commercial companies worldwide. It might be obscure for an average user but they don't really care about such details.

Re:The greatness of Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40936737)

Do a job search for Qt developers, then do one for .net and java developers. Qt is very under-represented in the market, despite being a much better environment IMO.

Re:The greatness of Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40932325)

Why?

Unfortunately for Qt, GTK+ is good enough.

Re:The greatness of Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40932787)

Not on OS X it isn't. And increasingly, not on Windows (particularly Win64).

Re:The greatness of Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40934403)

GTK is fine for GIMP, but not much more. At any rate, Qt is also LGPL, and it's only if one buys from Digia that one might have to go with either QPL or some other commercial license

Re:The greatness of Qt (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#40935349)

Unfortunately for Gtk+, vanilla C is not good enough.

Re:The greatness of Qt (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 2 years ago | (#40937079)

Unfortunately for Gtk+, vanilla C is not good enough.

That's why we have both it and Vala.

Re:The greatness of Qt (2)

ecki (115356) | more than 2 years ago | (#40934513)

For instance, it was used in Maemo - but then replaced with something GTK-based.

You got that the wrong way around. Maemo used GTK until the Fremantle release, but switched to Qt for Harmattan.

Re:The greatness of Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40934913)

Maemo used GTK. A lot of the work for version 6 (Harmattan, as launched on the N9) and the later releases of version 5 (Fremantle, N900) were to move to QT from GTK in order to provide a unified development environment/toolkit for Nokia devices.

Work on Maemo began three years before Nokia acquired Trolltech, which is why there was no good reason to prefer QT over GTK when Maemo started.

SPONGe (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40931867)

states t;hat There

Qt: the missed opportunity (4, Interesting)

Gravis Zero (934156) | more than 2 years ago | (#40931877)

Nokia has really shot itself in the foot. They could have pushed the porting effort to get Qt on Android and then get a nice native app ecosystem going but instead they went the (classically) shortsighted take-the-money route with Microsoft. Now they are stuck with this burden called Windows 8 Phone which is on a whooping 4% of cell phones. Windows 8 Phone just needs some apps, right? Well it's bad enough to come into the game late but when you have a hostile environment for developers (developers! developers!) you are not going to get anything but crappy ports from Android or iOS from developers that dont know any better.

It seems this culture of CEOs/board members coming and going on a regular basis has made corporate investments shortsighted.

Re:Qt: the missed opportunity (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 2 years ago | (#40932691)

How has Microsoft made a hostile environment for developers?

Re:Qt: the missed opportunity (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40932929)

* No native code.
* Costly developer licensing.
* Killing technologies and bringing out new ones faster than developers can keep up.
* Multiple PR disasters with 3rd party developers.

Re:Qt: the missed opportunity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40936007)

Qt could actually be their saving grace in this respect. If Qt gets ported to all the major phone OS's, who wouldn't use it for mobile development? It has to beat the other cross-platform alternatives. Then the third party app advantage should start to level out.

Re:Qt: the missed opportunity (2)

scorp1us (235526) | more than 2 years ago | (#40933551)

* Always have a "New, Better" way of doing things:
Win32, MFC, .NET, Windows forms, WPF, Silverlight, Now whatever Win8 metro apps are in.

* You can develop on the platform for free, but they make it hard.
"Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!" And they want to charge us to develop on their platform? Contrast to free development on all other platforms. Eclipse alone is reason enough.

Re:Qt: the missed opportunity (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#40933411)

According to Elop, Nokia was bleeding equity fast. He had to be shortsighted they didn't have enough money to last enough years to do it right.

Re:Qt: the missed opportunity (1)

HiThere (15173) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936173)

Believe him if you want to. Politicians aren't the only professional liars.

Re:Qt: the missed opportunity (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#40935375)

Now they are stuck with this burden called Windows 8 Phone which is on a whooping 4% of cell phones.

There's no such thing as a "Windows 8 Phone". There's "Windows Phone 8", but there aren't any cell phones with it, since it's not released yet.

IOS and Android good; corporations bad (1)

EmperorOfCanada (1332175) | more than 2 years ago | (#40932237)

Often investor driven companies find "buying opportunities" and then milk them for all they are worth missing the whole point that made the company successful. (Think Sears) I can see myself trying to explain open source to a group of MBAs for a week and still having zero impact.

"So if we open the source we can force people to use our code?"
"If we stop development won't people just keep buying the same old buggy junk?" "So the L in LGPL means they buy a license?" "Can we patent C++?"
"How much did we pay our lawyers to draw up this LGPL license."
"Nothing, then they can't be very good lawyers."
"Can we sue these wx People to stop them from giving away a GUI api for free?"
"I don't use linux. I think we should stop shipping a linux version."
"I only use a BlackBerry. RIM is offering me personally $50,000 if we stop development for iOS and Android. I think we should first develop a BB version."
"We have to figure out a way to legally stop people from forking."

My prediction is that QT is dead if they release the iOS and Android version as commercial only versions. It won't die that day but that is the day the hour glass is turned for the last time.

Re:IOS and Android good; corporations bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40932513)

"My prediction is that QT is dead if they release the iOS and Android version as commercial only versions. It won't die that day but that is the day the hour glass is turned for the last time."

your predictive ability sucks. there are *already* Qt applications for iOS and android

Good Thing (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40932739)

This is a good thing. The best thing for Qt is for it to be owned by someone whose business depends on it. I worked for a firm that, for legal reasons, had a commercial license from Digia, and I attended the Qt Dev Days in SF in 2011. I was impressed with what I saw. Digia seemed like a good company. I hope they can make a go of it.

We don't need Qt anymore. (2)

glrotate (300695) | more than 2 years ago | (#40932825)

CDE went open source.

Re:We don't need Qt anymore. (1)

HiThere (15173) | more than 2 years ago | (#40936191)

Mod the parent as funny.

Re:We don't need Qt anymore. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40936265)

good, they can compete with gnome/unity.

A shame (2)

alexoi (2588153) | more than 2 years ago | (#40933279)

They had Meego, they had Qt, they even have a lot of cash. So they could have done something unique. Now all that is gone. Enter Windows.

Re:A shame (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 2 years ago | (#40937137)

They lacked people with enough vision and sufficiently empowered to make something unique. Maemo/MeeGo sunk into a morass, Elop just delivered a coup de grace.

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