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Breakthrough In Drawing Complex Venn Diagrams: Goes to 11

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the next-week-better-shopping-lists dept.

Math 83

00_NOP writes "Venn diagrams are all the rage in this election year, but drawing comprehensible diagrams for anything more than 3 sets has proved to be very difficult. Until the breakthrough just announced by Khalegh Mamakani and Frank Ruskey of the University of Victoria in Canada, nobody had managed to draw a simple (no more than two lines crossing), symmetric Venn diagram for more than 7 sets (only primes will work). Now they have pushed that on to 11. And it's pretty too."

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Looks nice, but let's be honest (5, Insightful)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 2 years ago | (#40963937)

Visually, you don't really get fast useful information out of it, it's too hard to map a certain part of it to exactly which 11 regions it contains...

Re:Looks nice, but let's be honest (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964021)

I wonder if people dabbling in haruspicy see things the same way.

Re:Looks nice, but let's be honest (1)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | more than 2 years ago | (#40966763)

I vote that this post's parent be modded up.

Re:Looks nice, but let's be honest (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964225)

I hope yours is just a snide remark, but, just so no one is confused, the mathematicians who did this were definitely NOT trying to display information graphically. Their may be (useful) implications of this research, but there was never an intent that it be for some kind of typography.

Re:Looks nice, but let's be honest (4, Interesting)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964661)

This. They just found a clever way to jam too much information onscreen at once.

Of course it's pretty -- Spirograph drawings are!

This reminds me vaguely of Chernoff Faces [wikipedia.org] , which were an attempt to give people viewing 4D or higher data a "feel" for it, since you can't really visualize 4D drawings. It takes advantage of brain circuitry for recognizing faces using many different little hard-wired things, like eye position, mouth width, and so on.

Re:Looks nice, but let's be honest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40973793)

This reminds me vaguely of Chernoff Faces [wikipedia.org], which were an attempt to give people viewing 4D or higher data a "feel" for it, since you can't really visualize 4D drawings. It takes advantage of brain circuitry for recognizing faces using many different little hard-wired things, like eye position, mouth width, and so on.

Use of those faces would be discriminating against autistic people! :-)

Re:Looks nice, but let's be honest (2)

jmerlin (1010641) | more than 2 years ago | (#40965491)

What I find interesting is that if colored slightly differently and used jagged edges instead of curves, it would resemble the BP logo. BP paid $210,000,000 for their logo. Heh.

Huge implications for Football and Cricket stats (-1, Offtopic)

cognoscentus (1628459) | more than 2 years ago | (#40963951)

As Oppenheimer once remarked "Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

beautiful (4, Insightful)

gsgriffin (1195771) | more than 2 years ago | (#40963965)

But useless

We don't know if it is useless yet (5, Insightful)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964605)

Many seemingly pointless exercises in math lead to surprising breakthroughs. Graph partitioning is a very active area of research. Imagine creating an index on a ultra large database with pairwise "and" condition on many pairs of fields. Then finding multiple "and" or "or" condition based records within minimal traversing and merging of the index files. Who knows it might actually lead to dramatic speed ups of queries in large data bases.

Re:beautiful (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964941)

Just like our current bill of rights...

Re:beautiful (0, Offtopic)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#40965487)

There is nothing beautiful about Constitutional amendment that includes a right to lie with impunity and a right to have weapons useless for any purpose but killing small animals from a porch.

Misses the point... (4, Insightful)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964001)

The entire point of a venn diagram is a quick overview to easily be able to get an understanding about how things overlap, in what amounts and what areas. The diagrams on the linked page might be pretty, but they are in no way useful, and I doubt anyone would get more information out of it than reading the datalist it was compiled from.

Re:Misses the point... (3, Insightful)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964081)

There is the limitation of the media and the limitation of the receiver. With the appropiate culture, you could see blondes, brunettes and redheads in falling letters.

Re:Misses the point... (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964109)

That's more depending on how much drugs you take. Not so much a limitation as a lack of reality disconnect.

Re:Misses the point... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964527)

That's more depending on how much drugs you take.

Do you want the red pill, or the blue pill?

Re:Misses the point... (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964583)

Neither, but if you've got some vodka I've got a thirst that's not of this world.

Re:Misses the point... (5, Interesting)

Asmor (775910) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964547)

Venn diagrams do not show proportion (what I assume you mean by amounts)!

If you draw a Venn diagram with a tiny little overlap, or a huge overlap, in order to make some point, [b]you are doing it wrong[/b].

Now it's one thing to do this for comedic effect, but I see this all the time when people are trying to be serious and it makes me stabby.

Venn diagrams are a way of visualizing overlaps in sets; the ONLY thing that matters is what region an element is placed, not how big that region is.

A Venn diagram is a precise tool which displays particular information with no ambiguity, and trying to shoehorn proportions into it just makes it muddy. Plus, humans are fucking terrible at telling how much larger one roughly circular area is than another; make those areas slightly different shapes, and it's even less helpful.

Re:Misses the point... (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964597)

Huh, thanks for the info! Learn something new every day. I guess it's drinking time!

Re:Misses the point... (1)

FormOfActionBanana (966779) | more than 2 years ago | (#40966431)

Looks like it's going to be the University of Illinois!

Re:Misses the point... (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40966463)

I don't know... I don't see any drinking courses... https://www.coursera.org/illinois [coursera.org]

Re:Misses the point... (1)

theskipper (461997) | more than 2 years ago | (#40966871)

The greatest Tom Cruise movie evar.

(Yeah, I can't believe I just typed that either)

Re:Misses the point... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40970797)

I understand that it's formally "wrong" to use Venn diagrams that way. But why does it bother you? Is it like grammar nazism? Maybe it would help if we would call them "George diagrams" or something. When the scales are close (e.g. the intersection is maximum of 70% of a 2 set diagram) then I find it really useful, i.e. more info.

Re:Misses the point... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40965025)

"Simple Venn diagrams" are mathematical objects with certain properties. Constructing such an 11-Venn is an impressive feat and adds significantly to the body of mathematical knowledge surrounding these objects. This is an example of mathematical research.

Taking an idea, extending it, and applying it to other things is what mathematicians do. They are not struggling to understand the purpose of the original definition; instead they are leaving those of you who do not have such capacity for abstract thinking behind. In this case, you are missing the point.

Re:Misses the point... (-1, Troll)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40965119)

You have a good point. I went through the same phase myself when I was around 8 or so, built strange contraptions. A lot out of lego, but really whatever I got my hands on. Pneumatics, record players, things were spinning, twisting and turning. My mother used to ask me what it was, and I would just happily say I had no fucking clue, but hey, at least it looked cool.

I grew out of it though. Building things with absolutely no practical implementation can be amusing, but once we grow to a certain age we like to at least have some thin veneer of reason behind things... Like the one button party mode room someone built, that I'm sure they've gotten to use often... to demonstrate it, and then promptly turn it off. But we don't tend to brag about it if we do something completely useless.

Well, I guess you might, being an anonymous coward, but those of us who dare stand for our opinions don't tend to.

Re:Misses the point... (4, Insightful)

Immerman (2627577) | more than 2 years ago | (#40965805)

You've just run head on into the difference between targeted and foundational (or "blue-sky") research. Foundational research almost by definition has no particular application. Why do we care about the Higgs Boson? Why did we care about the electron? Or the neutron? No one had any concrete ideas for applications of any of them at the time - they were just trying to better understand the rules that govern the universe.

Mathematics research is almost all blue-sky, but it's even more fundamental than physics since it the landscape is a construct of rigorous logic built on a foundation of a few of the simplest and most universally accepted rules, and the results apply to anything whose mathematical description can contorted into a compatible format, regardless of the original subject area.

Re:Misses the point... (-1, Redundant)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40965909)

Sure, I buy that to some degree. My personal opinion however, which is entirely unbacked by the scientific community I'm sure, is that there is a lot of difference between foundational research into things like the building blocks of the universe, and foundational research into how to make a diagram that shows more overlapping units than was previously possible. Compare it to origami...

Yes, origami, the art of folding shit into funky shapes. It has applications such as the best way to fold parachutes, and so on. I've even heard of ultrathin solar panels or some shit for satellites being folded up according to very strictly calculated patterns so that they can be deployed properly without snagging into something, while still taking as little room as possible... This is all things that are developed by research into origami methods.

However, researching how to fold a better yoda is not the same as researching how to better fold a parachute. There might be some mild overlap at the edges, but one isn't likely to bring any major breakthroughs in the other. And making better venn diagrams isn't likely to solve world hunger, or explain the mysterious of the world, or whatever mathemagician feat that will come next... Not in my opinion.

In my opinion this isn't foundational research, it's child's play, wasting time between real projects on something that looks neat and has no practical function. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, playing with yourself is a healthy practice I hear, but it's not the kind of thing that deserves to be called "Stuff that matters." In fact it's closer to the kind of thing they should have kept to themselves and been happy about while they tried their next huge challenge - to draw a hexagonal sudoku puzzle.

No really, I hear that one will cure aids. True story.

Re:Misses the point... (1)

Immerman (2627577) | more than 2 years ago | (#40970431)

Sure, the majority of niche mathematical puzzles may never see much application, but by dismissing it as something that "looks neat" I think you risk missing the point. As others have mentioned Venn diagrams get kind of pointless as visual aids with around 4 or 5 groups - the human brain isn't really wired to process it; however, it is an interesting exercise is planar geometry with particular challenges, and it may prove to be something like Penrose Tiles in that respect: silly in it's own right, but with interesting applications to understanding for fundamental phenomena.

An unrelated (and poorly remembered) example - developing an algorithm to solve Minesweeper would seem would seem a similarly silly task; however, a few years(?) ago it was proven that Minesweeper is actually an NP-complete problem, and any such "silly" general solution would actually be applicable to a fairly large number of real-world problems.

Re:Misses the point... (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40970551)

Huh, there you go, I did not know that. I mean I still have no clue what real world problems get solved by that kind of math, but I know they do. Somehow.
As a friend of mine put it: "I'm just an advanced maths degree away from understanding why anyone would get an advanced maths degree."

Re:Misses the point... (1)

Immerman (2627577) | more than 2 years ago | (#40970795)

Heh heh, I've got to remember that line. Having gotten a 4-year math degree sort of by accident I'm still not entirely sure why anyone would want one. My impression is that nobody is crazy enough to get an advanced degree in it unless they're either deeply in love with formal logic or are just too eccentric to fit in anywhere else.

Re:Misses the point... (1)

budgenator (254554) | more than 2 years ago | (#40965833)

You out grew it, how sad, a big part of why I go to work is to be able to create things for the shear joy of creation without regard for practicality when I'm not working.

Re:Misses the point... (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40965947)

Actually that sounds much sadder to me, but then I do things I enjoy all the time instead of doing things I hate just to afford to spend some precious little sliver of time with something special. I can't imagine having to spend all that time toiling away just so you can do something you enjoy. Wouldn't you rather have all those hours to do something nice in? Even if it meant you might not afford quite so many gadgets or had to build your non-practical inventions out of second hand stuff instead of brand new parts?

Re:Misses the point... (1)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | more than 2 years ago | (#40966877)

we like to at least have some thin veneer of reason behind things...

Because I can should be enough.

Re:Misses the point... (0)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40970259)

No, it most certainly shouldn't. "Because I can" can never be a blanket explanation. There are a lot of things I _can_ do that would be a complete waste of time, and in addition to that there are a lot of things I can do that would be immoral, illegal, or even borderline suicidal to pursuit. "Because I can" is not enough, never has been, and never should be.

Re:Misses the point... (1)

highphilosopher (1976698) | more than 2 years ago | (#40977657)

No wonder you are how you are! You cursed at your mother at 8 years old?

Freak.

Re:Misses the point... (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#40981235)

Well, while my mother certainly wouldn't have minded - she as I was of the opinion that swearing is for emphasis and to be reserved for such - no, I wasn't swearing at my mother at age 8. Especially not in English since I never spoke that to her. I did a paraphrased idiomatic translation to express the general level such replies would have had.

So sorry if that left you confused.

Re:Misses the point... (1)

highphilosopher (1976698) | more than 2 years ago | (#40983709)

Ah my bad. I failed to consider the lack of quotation marks around the paraphrased text that would have indicated an exact translation rather than an idiomatic one.

Its art (4, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964013)

At that level its just a shiny object with no substance.

But then again, with what goes on in the political world these days perhaps it's appropriate.

Re:Its art (1)

guttentag (313541) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964323)

At that level its just a shiny object with no substance.

Which means there will be a function built into the next version of Flash to allow people to quickly build these. That way Flash can stay at the forefront of the SONS (Shiny Object No Substance) niche market.

Re:Its art (2)

guttentag (313541) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964423)

At that level its just a shiny object with no substance.

But then again, with what goes on in the political world these days perhaps it's appropriate.

Actually, what we have here is a perfect model of the beltway (the highway that surrounds Washington DC). A giant traffic jam of conflicting yet semi-exclusively intersecting interests with a whole lot of nothing going on in the middle as a result.

Re:Its art (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40966627)

Interestingly, these more complex venn diagrams are going in the opposite direction that politics keeps moving in maturing democracies. Voters may prefer only a 2 set diagram this coming election: http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/presart1.html

The ability for complex thought is certainly not determined by reading level, but it is a good warning indicator. Politicians are steadily creating ever simpler arguments to appeal to those who are willing to give them sanction for their actions. While it certainly makes the task of identifying the flaws in the arguments easier, it also implies that attempts to point out those errors will fall upon uncomprehending ears. There is a point at which an argument cannot be further simplified without destroying the content of the argument. At some point, certain arguments can no longer reach people due to the nature of their complexity. At that point, the argument itself must be abandoned and instead one must first correct the ability to think before returning to the task of correcting the understanding of a particular point.

I run into this all the time. I find that I am more often correcting people on basic definitions and destroying bromides(propositions held without justification, accepted without thought) in their minds. I cannot even get to the meat of the subject because I have to deal with faulty reasoning methodologies first. I cannot speak on economics until I've gone back to deal with misunderstandings of epistemology, explaining the error in misusing the natural scientific method to justify some policy for effects it supposedly has by virtue of the fact that conditions were of some state while said policy was in effect(ignoring any attempt to control all the other countless variables that were also operating at the time). I cannot speak on philosophy and ethics until I've first dealt with misunderstandings of appeals to incidental and limited effect, where the outcome is subjectively valued differently by different actors and begs the question of any objective standard, while trying to point out when and where objectivity does exist in the universally preferable behaviors of men.

Going back to this level of reasoning before returning to the actual point would be a dream for me. More often, I must define the most basic of terms like statism, the initiation of violence, and so on. Just trying to get people to stop calling random politicians a socialist or whatever other ideology is tough enough. I can talk about the central violent control of the means of production within a geographical region all I want, but some people cannot see the economic fascism at all. I can point out that even the closest thing to it(like North Korea) still uses money and has markets but still many think the northern European so called social democracies(which have far more voluntary market exchange between peaceful individuals) are anything close to socialism. I can point out the degree of self ownership such places foster is comparable to the US and yet I see unending claims that America is capitalist while much of Europe is not. I can point to the degree of fascistic controls dominating the markets in the US only to be met with blank stares. It is entirely frustrating. The ability to think critically on these topics is absent in a large number of people. I do not think it is complete however. I suspect these blatant gaps in reasoning are exclusive to certain contentious and traumatic thoughts and experiences. Many wonderfully smart people exhibit these problems. It isn't an issue of a persons overall ability to think. This suggests that the next level down we must go to address this sort of inflicted thoughtlessness is in the realm of the psychological. One cannot reason a person out of a position they reached by means other than reason. If a man is indoctrinated, one cannot expect him to be rational about the subject. One must address the source of his ailment, not the symptom. So, my final long winded and off topic point is that to deal with the problem of stupidity in voters, you must deal with their mental blocks first, then show them how to reason, then explain the actual subject at hand. No small task at all...

Re:Its art (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40967939)

Did you have a point at all?

Of course this is where it all began.. (5, Funny)

wisebabo (638845) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964057)

(Classic SMBC cartoon)

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1917 [smbc-comics.com]

Re:Of course this is where it all began.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40965365)

This [smbc-comics.com] is also appropriate.

Obligatory This Is Spinal Tap (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964085)

Nigel's Venn diagram goes to 11.

Re:Obligatory This Is Spinal Tap (1)

Megane (129182) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964119)

But is that 11 inches or 11 feet?

Re:Obligatory This Is Spinal Tap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40973877)

11 on the Richter scale.

L00ks Like (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964113)

some "Professional Students" with a bit to much time on their hands.

3D (1)

meekg (30651) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964137)

Can you make one for 4 colors out of 4 spheres?
Certainly not a prime number

Re:3D (1)

sgunhouse (1050564) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964295)

Can you see the internals of your four spheres?

In that sense, 4 categories would lead to 15 regions total. But as we can't really see in 3 dimensions - we can't see the inside and outside at the same time, we only see in stereo - this is not an improvement. (A computer could, in a theoretical sense, represent a large number of categories in any number of dimensions. It just can't present the results to you in more than stereo 2D.)

Re:3D (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964417)

But as we can't really see in 3 dimensions - we can't see the inside and outside at the same time,

Sure we can. It's called transparency and translucency and computers are pretty good at simulating this as 2D projection on a flat screen. If you were to do it in meatspace, you could use a translucent coloured glass or plastic.

There is no reason why you can't use spheres.

--
BMO

Re:3D (1)

sgunhouse (1050564) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964463)

The person below with the 3D printer where you could actually disassemble the pieces might be onto something, but with too many colors transparency in a strictly solid model isn't enough to help.

Re:3D (0)

bmo (77928) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964559)

Tell me again how translucency and transparency don't allow you to see through/into something.

Go ahead. Make me laugh more.

--
BMO

Re:3D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40968123)

It's not that you couldn't see through, it's that the 3d printer can't print transparent poo (yet).

Re:3D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40978891)

thank god for reddit. this site has become so fucking pathetic. pretty soon its going to be just be AC "nigger" posts, and angry ol dinosaur BMO.
   

It's time to take your medication, APK. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40979543)

You crazy old coot.

Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964159)

As a logic teacher, I welcome this discovery, and if it is just for satisfying my curiosity.

But I'm already happy if my students are able to draw a Venn diagram with 3 sets... ;-)

Keyboard warning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964191)

My brain exploded ... made quite a mess of my keyboard.

Pretty, but limited in usefulness. (1)

kennykb (547805) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964215)

Nice and shiny. But as others have observed, it doesn't actually do much for visualizing the relationships. Up to about six sets really is my personal limit for visualizing these things at a glance. and I use a Karnaugh map [wikipedia.org] for that.

3D? (3, Interesting)

mattr (78516) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964221)

IANAM but would 3D help? Since now we have 3D printers one could build a program that would make a disassemblable colored object.

Hallelujah! (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964245)

Because what the internet needs is more Venn diagrams!

So, an 11-Venn is really (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964255)

An incomplete goat.se with color?

Useless is in the eye of the beholder. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964305)

I agree that the 11-Venn is fairly useless as a PowerPoint slide, but Slash Dotters of all people should understand that pure mathematics often leads to applied mathematics. For example, suppose this new finding leads to improved approaches to signal multiplexing, so that you can have billions more 8G cell phones and thousands more channels of nothing-to-watch on cable and satellite TV. Or perhaps it will lead to more advanced neural networks, so that we can get Cyberdyne Systems and SkyNet up and running. Or maybe it will even lead to advances in political science that give rise to governments that are actually capable of serving the people they govern. One just never knows...

Re:Useless is in the eye of the beholder. (4, Funny)

guttentag (313541) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964351)

I agree that the 11-Venn is fairly useless as a PowerPoint slide...

Are you inferring
-(next slide)-
that there are things which
-(next slide)-
are not
-(next slide)-
fairly useless as PowerPoint slides?
-(next slide)-
Many have claimed to invent such a thing, but none have succeeded.

Re:Useless is in the eye of the beholder. (1)

makomk (752139) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964377)

. For example, suppose this new finding leads to improved approaches to signal multiplexing, so that you can have billions more 8G cell phones and thousands more channels of nothing-to-watch on cable and satellite TV.

Of course, most /.ers have probably come across the ideas of channel capacity and Shannon information, which kind of put a dampener on that possibility.

Re:Useless is in the eye of the beholder. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40968495)

Ughhh. so you mean that Verizon and ATT can now come up with a new data plan called the "11-Venn" plan where when minutes overlapp you get charged a premium?

And it's not true - been done before (5, Informative)

Bozovision (107228) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964321)

In 1989 Anthony Edwards figured out how to make Venn diagrams of arbitrary size: http://www.qandr.org/quentin/software/venn [qandr.org]

"Dr Edwards came up with an ingenious solution based on segmenting the surface of a sphere, beginning with the equator and the 0 and the +/- 90-degree meridians. It can be extended to an arbitrary number of sets by creating wobbly lines that cross the equator - starting with the pattern of stitching found on a tennis ball. You can unwrap the sphere back onto a plane and the sets still work."

Not been done before (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964473)

Note the words 'simple' and 'symmettric'. The abritrarly many set diagram linked acheives neither.

Either way it's pretty useless...

Re:Not been done before (2)

Bozovision (107228) | more than 2 years ago | (#40964619)

I think it does symmetry: have a look, not at the pictures on the linked page, but the pdfs, which are examples of what he was talking about. But you are quite right it's not simple and my comment should be downvoted, which is my punishment for a knee-jerk reaction. My apologies to Khalegh Mamakani and Frank Ruskey.

Re:And it's not true - been done before (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964535)

In 1989 Anthony Edwards figured out how to make Venn diagrams of arbitrary size: http://www.qandr.org/quentin/software/venn [qandr.org]

FTFS: "nobody had managed to draw a simple (no more than two lines crossing), symmetric Venn diagram for more than 7 sets (only primes will work)."

Dr. Edwards' Venn is not symetric (per the two boxes)

Re:And it's not true - been done before (1)

Mana Mana (16072) | more than 2 years ago | (#40971063)

> In 1989 Anthony Edwards

Mother Goose, you pussy!

?

Looks like fractals or harmonics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964851)

It looks sort of fractal, and it reminds me of harmonics. I wonder if it could tell us anything about either.

Oh, and of course it's useless for displaying information. A list of groups and their characteristics sorted by percentage is better for that; but that doesn't mean this isn't good for something

Spinal Tap Reference (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40964971)

For those that didn't catch the This Is Spinal Tap [imdb.com] reference:

Video Proof [youtube.com]

So, where do I get the t-shirt? (1)

JSBiff (87824) | more than 2 years ago | (#40965345)

As others have said, I'm not sure that 11-Venn is useful for most people's comprehension, but I'd love to have it on a t-shirt. Mathematicians come up with some awesome abstract art, sometimes.

Venn diagrams? (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#40965505)

Do they have any purpose other than to show some three universally reviled attributes and put a group of criticized people in the middle?

This one goes to 11 (1)

jfdavis668 (1414919) | more than 2 years ago | (#40966067)

It's one louder

Anyone else with a sudden urge for Spinal Tap (1)

get_your_ass_to_mars (2635749) | more than 2 years ago | (#40968413)

maybe it's just me...

paging Dr. Rorschach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40968719)

Wow! Times have changed! When I was in college, these were called Rorschach Tests (and they were only black and white back then).

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