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Kentucky Lawmakers Shocked To Find Evolution In Biology Tests

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the other-states-shocked-that-kentucky-has-biology-tests dept.

Education 1218

bbianca127 writes "Kentucky mandated that schools include tests that are based on national standards, and contracted test maker ACT to handle them. Legislators were then shocked that evolution was so prominently featured, even though evolution is well-supported and a central tenet of modern biology. One KY Senator said he wanted creationism taught alongside evolution, even though the Supreme Court has ruled that teaching creationism in science classes is a violation of the establishment clause. Representative Ben Wade stated that evolution is just a theory, and that Darwin made it all up. Legislators want ACT to make a Kentucky-specific ACT test, though the test makers say that would be prohibitively expensive. This is just the latest in a round of states' fight against evolution — Louisiana and Tennessee have recently passed laws directed against teaching evolution."

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Ummm....no (5, Insightful)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024693)

Legislators want ACT to make a Kentucky-specific ACT test

Sorry, hillbillies. We're not making a separate test for you just because you're a bunch of bible-thumping idiots. We're also not making a separate test for Muslims which women are forbidden to take, or a separate Scientology test with science questions involving Thetan levels, or a separate test for North Koreans where the correct answer to every question is A. Our Supreme Leader, Praised Be His Name!

Everyone gets the same test (well, okay, we can do braille and language translations, but THAT'S IT). And studying for it is going to involve reading more than the Bible, or Koran, or Talmud, or whatever the fuck holy text you happen to be thumping.

Besides, you need real science in Kentucky. That meth isn't going to cook itself, you know.

Another perspective (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024795)

You want central planning, right? You want education to be controlled from the top down, by people you have never even met, right? You want the system to be enforced through the coercive power of government, right?

Then you got exactly what you wanted. This is central planning, and it turned out exactly how central planning is supposed to.

Re:Another perspective (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024895)

You want central planning, right? You want education to be controlled from the top down, by people you have never even met, right? You want the system to be enforced through the coercive power of government, right?

Then you got exactly what you wanted. This is central planning, and it turned out exactly how central planning is supposed to.

I agree! The national standard of No Child Left Behind -teach to a test - has failed; which was yet another standard created by a Bible thumping moron.

So, we need to keep religion completely out of education standard.

Science rules; Bible drools!

Re:Another perspective (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025121)

This is central planning, and it turned out exactly how central planning is supposed to.

With sane and rational teaching standards for science? I guess that means I like central planning.

Re:Ummm....no (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024805)

Amen to that!

Re:Ummm....no (1)

Nexion (1064) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024933)

Awesome, pretty much sums up my thoughts on this headline.

Moral Orel (5, Funny)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024995)

We're not making a separate test for you...

Orel and his friend Doughy are walking back from school:

Doughy: Orel, what was your answer for question number three of the science test?
Orel: Jesus!
Doughy: [slaps forehead] Of course!

you can tell where the oppressive idiots are (5, Insightful)

swschrad (312009) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025007)

if you are so all-fired to exclude scientific thought, send your kids to church school. as for everybody else, they should be exposed to the real world and all its swirling contradictions through a broad-based education.

following fruit fly genes is not going to damn you to hell everlasting, for God made that mechanism. pinheads.

Re:you can tell where the oppressive idiots are (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025055)

Who made that mechanism?

Re:Ummm....no (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025069)

Legislators want ACT to make a Kentucky-specific ACT test

Sorry, hillbillies. We're not making a separate test for you just because you're a bunch of bible-thumping idiots.

Why not? They could make a test where the right answer to every question is "Jeebus" and just flag the results correctly. Good luck getting into a college outside of Central Dumbfuckistan with that test score, though...

Re:Ummm....no (4, Insightful)

residieu (577863) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025103)

These are tests to give to High School students as part of their lessons, right? Kentucky isn't actually suggesting that the ACT tests widely used for college admissions be rewritten for them, are they? If they're asking for Kentucky-specific tests for their classes, I wouldn't have a problem with ACT writing them for them. Kentucky WOULD have to expect a pretty hefty cost to finance writing of new tests with a limited audience (But it sounds like ACT isn't willing to do that work, or doesn't think Kentucky would be willing to pay the necessary price, fair enough).

If they ARE talking about the college-admissions ACT tests.... well, I'd be willing to bet very few schools would be willing to accept those alternate test for admissions.

The civil war was a mistake (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024697)

Can't we just cut the south free and stop talking about them? They are a money drain on this country, and I am sick of hearing about them. Hell, I have family in the south. All they ever talk about is how Obama is a muslim and how his birth certificate is a fake. The south is too resilient to progress. We would be better off without them slowing us down.

Re:The civil war was a mistake (5, Funny)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024729)

Kentucky was a Union state. You're stuck with them either way.

Re:The civil war was a mistake (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024741)

The ignorance infection is growing. We need to cut off the dead tissue as soon as possible.

Re:The civil war was a mistake (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024935)

The ignorance infection is growing. We need to cut off the dead tissue as soon as possible.

I'm afraid that the US has progressed so far towards becoming a Christian theocracy that, first amendment or not, the dead tissue is about to cut you off.

Kentucky claimed by Union and Confederacy (5, Informative)

perpenso (1613749) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024953)

Kentucky was a Union state. You're stuck with them either way.

Kentucky was claimed by both the Union and the Confederacy. Parts of the state actively supported the Union, other parts actively supported the Confederacy. Similar story when you get to individuals. Kentucky being considered a Union state is literally one of those instances where the victor gets to write history.

Missouri had a similar split and the results were particularly bloody guerilla raids by small local groups. Similar problems may have occurred in Kentucky, I'm not familiar with what happened there.

Virginia split in two, West Virginia exists because locals went Union.

Isolate them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024701)

Yes, a test, specifically for them. Also, somebody should create jobs only for them, with that education, they'll never get a job at a regular firm, or perhaps just at that Chicken Shag that's been prominent for bigotry lately.
Perhaps, as a job, they'd like a supervisor function in some cotton fields and perhaps cross-burnings on Saturdays to relax.

Re:Isolate them. (2)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024765)

but we live in a meritocracy, so the system should automatically benefit them because they're better than us!

Re:Isolate them. (5, Insightful)

WhitePanther5000 (766529) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024863)

Don't punish the students just because the adults are bumfuck retarded. They deserve a real education, and it's the only way to improve the idiocracy. Education is a way out for them.

:facepalm: (5, Insightful)

reubenavery (1047008) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024725)

ugh.

well, hey, cheer up everybody, we just landed the most awesomest rover evar on mars!

and all the other sciency stuff we've been accomplishing...

we're doing great.

right?

hello?

Re::facepalm: (5, Funny)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024737)

Yea, but the only reason that rover ever made it to Mars is because I was praying it would.

Re::facepalm: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024769)

Jesus put it on Mars.

Re::facepalm: (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024919)

Pay no attention to the troll submitting stories.
Somewhere in America millions are doing something stupid. A percentage of these people are public figures and a percentage of those are in government. This is nothing. This isn't even news. This is a reporter somewhere with search program trolling the press releases and small-town papers for 'senator' & 'evolution'. Whatever turns up both phrases can be sold to someone.

Re::facepalm: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024925)

I think NASA is as much of a drain on the nation's resources as Kentucky. Sure, they're stupid in Kentucky, but I didn't appreciate seeing all those tax-payer bought incredibly over priced apple laptops in mission control. Only the government would pay gobs of cash for a locked down version of BSD.

The "war" on religion (5, Insightful)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024767)

Please remember that when people talk about a "war" on religion, this is the kind of stuff they're referring to. Nobody credible is trying to prevent anyone from worshiping the god of your choice. However, there is a sizable contingent of religious people out there who think that religious "freedom" means the freedom for everyone to be Christian, and anything that interferes with that goal is (or should) violate the First Amendment.

I never cease to be frustrated at people who wave the Constitution around and cry about how our freedom is being oppressed when it suits their ideological viewpoint, but then they pull stuff like this without seeing how much worse a violation of our liberty it is.

Jefferson is still right. Separation of church and state, it's the only reasonable way to ensure our freedom. That includes keeping creationism in churches where it belongs and out of our schools.

Re:The "war" on religion (4, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024813)

Freedom of religion comes to this in their eyes: we're free to agree with them. That's it.

The biggest point of ignorance about this is that the freedom to believe what we want benefits THEM the most. If Christianity becomes the "official" religion in the U.S., the question immediately becomes *what* form of Christianity. We seen it this year with all the Babtists crying about Mormonism. Freedom religion is there because that type of battle doesn't end until there are two people.

Re:The "war" on religion (1)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024875)

Well, according to South Park, the correct answer is "Mormon."

Re:The "war" on religion (3, Insightful)

Daniel_Staal (609844) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024969)

Freedom religion is there because that type of battle doesn't end until there are two people.

You are way to optimistic about how many people would be left.

Re:The "war" on religion (5, Funny)

Shoten (260439) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025145)

This is best summed up by, oddly enough, a joke by Emo Philips...

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?"
He said, "Baptist!"
I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?"
He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?"
He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!"
I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

Grrr... grammo (4, Insightful)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024815)

Nobody credible is trying to prevent anyone from worshiping the god of their choice. Plenty of people would love to prevent everyone from worshiping the god of your choice, depending on exactly which god that is.

You know that sinking feeling you get when you realize that your keys are in the car as you're closing the car door, but it's too late to stop the momentum of your arm to catch it? It's the same as that feeling I get when I click Submit and as the little spinner is spinning and the text is uploading, I realize, "Noooo!!! That's not what I meant!"

Re:The "war" on religion (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024881)

Creationsim does have a place in schools. When I was a senior in high school we had a class called "humanities." It was a class where we covered a bit of art and a bit of sociology. That's where it belongs. Teach the basic ideas behind the major religions and touch on their influence on the world stage.
 
By doing this you start to open up a middle ground where people learn a bit about each other and their cultures. By closing out this kind of knowledge you're leaving a big gap for the fringe to fill and use against you. The more people we can get involved in this middle ground the smaller the fringe becomes. This will make them less powerful and easier to spot at a distance.
 
Too many people want to fight tooth and nail instead of finding a common ground to work from. This is a waste of resources.

Re:The "war" on religion (5, Interesting)

sandytaru (1158959) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024957)

I'd love to have a literature elective in high school called "Creation Stories and Mythology from Around the World." It could begin and end with Genesis, but also touch on everything from Coyote sneezing out mountains to examples of new creation stories from modern literature, as well as some of the more out-there science hypothesis such as multiverses and parallel dimensions, and how they are used in speculative fiction.

Re:The "war" on religion (2)

WhitePanther5000 (766529) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025053)

I don't think anyone is fighting against a balanced survey of world religions in a humanities class. The issue is when they teach a religion as if it is proven fact and ignore scientific consensus. I took humanities as a freshmen in college, and it was the first time Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism had been presented to me in an objective manner... instead of a bunch of retards screaming about how they're trying to destroy the world.

Re:The "war" on religion (3, Insightful)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025105)

Creationism would only have a place in a class that also taught about zeus impregnating goats, cutting out peoples hearts on top of a stepped pyramid for a good harvest and the blue skinned transgendered 8 armed gods.

Re:The "war" on religion (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024943)

I'm from Italy, and catholic from the start, I'm an evolutionist.
In Italy I never heard any priest talking about creationism.
The standard catholic rule is that creationism whose made up alongside many other rule only to control ignorant peoples who cant understand....
Itp's simple, if they cant understand you make up some rules, if they can understand you can talk with them.
To my son I say dont play with the knifes, I dont explain why he doesnt have to play with knives... until he grow up.

Re:The "war" on religion (5, Interesting)

zzsmirkzz (974536) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024955)

However, there is a sizable contingent of religious people out there who think that religious "freedom" means the freedom for everyone to be Christian, and anything that interferes with that goal is (or should) violate the First Amendment.

Not exactly. They think religious "freedom" means that they have the freedom to teach their kids to believe whatever they want (which is true). But further than that they think it means that they are free from anyone else contradicting those beliefs with their own beliefs which is where they are wrong, they have no so such freedom as it, obviously, severely restricts everyone else's freedom to say and believe what they wish.

Re:The "war" on religion (1)

Stormthirst (66538) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024963)

Is there any kind of religious classes taught in public schools in the states? (I'm not from there, only visited twice on vacation)

If it were, I would happily confine creationism to religious education classes - with the hope that the students realise what a pile of shit all religion is.

Re:The "war" on religion (3, Insightful)

cpghost (719344) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024975)

Jefferson is still right. Separation of church and state, it's the only reasonable way to ensure our freedom. That includes keeping creationism in churches where it belongs and out of our schools.

Now, if only the US government stopped supporting the Islamist takeover of Syria, Egypt etc..., if only the Russian government stopped supporting the oppressive Orthodox Church of Russia against a couple of harmless girls... Separation of Church and State isn't very much en vogue nowadays; no matter where you look. That's really depressing, IMHO.

Re:The "war" on religion (5, Insightful)

smooth wombat (796938) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024993)

religious "freedom" means the freedom for everyone to be Christian, and anything that interferes with that goal is (or should) violate the First Amendment.

Or, as Asimov said:

Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.

Re:The "war" on religion (2)

morcego (260031) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025017)

I have a very pragmatic view on the subject. You want to teach religion on school ? Great. Have a specific class for that.
Teaching religion on science classes is as wrong as teaching math in a "creative writing" class.

Teaching creationism in schools doesn't piss me off(*) by itself. Teaching creationism in science classes, does.

This kind of people are the ones who are pushing everyone away from religion. Case in point, I'm an agnostic whose mother is a religion teacher in a catholic school.

*- Except for the fact that stupidity pissed me off

Re:The "war" on religion (4, Informative)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025101)

Also important to point out: Yes, Thomas Jefferson really supported religious freedom. As did John Adams, Sam Adams, Thomas Paine, James Madison, George Washington, Ben Franklin, and most of the rest of that crowd. They did so in part because they wanted to avoid all the religious wars which were common in Europe at the time. 20 years later, they were still writing letters to each other about how great an idea it had turned out to be, and de Tocqueville commented that it had led to a flourishing of religion in the US, which statistically speaking has continued through to the present day.

The reason I bring this up is that David Barton and others like him have been busily rewriting American history to convince these nutjobs that the Establishment Clause should be ignored and Christianity be given a privileged place in the United States.

Separation good for both government and church (2)

perpenso (1613749) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025113)

Jefferson is still right. Separation of church and state, it's the only reasonable way to ensure our freedom.

True. However it is good for both government and church. When churches get involved in government they "lose their way". "Power corrupts" applies to churches too, not just individuals.

That includes keeping creationism in churches where it belongs and out of our schools.

Not quite. Out of "science class". Its likely a valid topic in other types of classes, history, philosophy, religion, etc.

Re:The "war" on religion (4, Insightful)

residieu (577863) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025143)

And when they speak of "war on religion" they certainly don't mean people placing restrictions on where Islamic communities can build their Mosques or community centers. War on Religion specifically means getting in the way of Christians.

The United States is becoming like Pakistan (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024779)

A few wealthy and modern cities surrounded by a huge sea of uneducated religious primitives with guns.

Re:The United States is becoming like Pakistan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024889)

What do you mean becoming?

Ermahgerd evolution!! (5, Insightful)

m1ndcrash (2158084) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024783)

Gravity is a theory too, nobody tries to walk out of the window, Ben Wade.

Re:Ermahgerd evolution!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024927)

nobody tries to walk out of the window, Ben Wade.

Don't discourage him from trying.

Re:Ermahgerd evolution!! (1)

m1ndcrash (2158084) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025137)

Where is the like button?

Re:Ermahgerd evolution!! (1)

toriver (11308) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024991)

Ah, posting to undo mis-mod

evolution in action (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024809)

I say: Good for them! But please do it right, ban teaching evolution completely, on all levels of education. Also, ban everything developed using this "wacky theory of evolution" in KY, including all medicine developed by people who think evolution is a better explanation than inteligent design or whatever.
Then watch what happens to Kentucky.

When the machines finally take over (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024811)

.. I hope they have a sense of humor for this shit.

we LOVE YOU Troy McClure! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024959)

"You'll Never Make a Monkey Out of Me" [theforbidden-zone.com]

Troy: [singing] I hate every ape I see
From chimpan-a to chimpan-zee
No, you'll never make a monkey out of me [wikipedia.org]

Oh my God, I was wrong
It was Earth all along

You've finally made a monkey
Apes: Yes, we've finally made a monkey
Troy: Yes, you've finally made a monkey out of me
Apes: Yes, we've finally made a monkey out of you

Troy: I love you, Dr. Zaius!


just say no to zoloft! R.I.P. Phil

gritn (guy raised in the north) (5, Interesting)

tbonefrog (739501) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024823)

Yep it's a challenge to live down here amongst the hillbillies. Tennessee's law actually doesn't mandate teaching creationism, it just prevents a teacher from getting into trouble for teaching alternative theories. As a substitute teacher (between software engineer gigs) I'm amassing age-appropriate clips from as many different religions and prehistoric traditions as I can find, so when the opportunity [resents itself, I'll be ready.

It's terrible to see the country slide backward down the ladder of technological pre-eminence due to these wackos. Decades of badmouthing government are going to take a toll on us pretty soon.

Note also that science shouldn't be taught as set in stone, either. There's a lot we don't know and kids enjoy comparing what was known to be true in my teenage years with what we know now.

Not believing in evolution after you've seen DNA is like sticking to chopsticks after you've seen the fork, no offense intended.

Re:gritn (guy raised in the north) (4, Insightful)

pipatron (966506) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025011)

Actually, once I spent a month in China, and when I got back home, eating with a fork and a knife felt so.. primitive and barbaric. You sit at the table and destroy the food by tearing and sawing.

That feeling quickly passed, but still something to think about.

Re:gritn (guy raised in the north) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025043)

Everything up until the chopsticks reference makes sense. I for one find it easier to use chopsticks when eating certain kinds of foods (coming from a person who learned how to use forks and knives before chopsticks).

Re:gritn (guy raised in the north) (1)

toriver (11308) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025059)

You mean alternative theories in general? Like white supremacy? NAMBLA views on man-boy "luv"? "The Jews are running the world" conspiracy theories? Man, KY students are going to be so whacked in the head.

oh wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024827)

Representative Ben Wade stated that evolution is just a theory, and that Darwin made it all up.

Now they're just trolling.

Re:oh wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025099)

Representative Ben Wade stated that evolution is just a theory, and that Darwin made it all up.

Now they're just trolling.

You know who ELSE had a made-up theory...

anyone have a source on the Wade quote? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024833)

All I can find is this, which doesn't seem to support the context:
http://quoteinvestigator.com/tag/ben-wade/

of course it's made up (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024839)

of course darwin made it up! einstein also completely made up relativity. since they both used the scientific method, it turns out this theory they both proposed is both provable and a very good model for how the world and universe works, respectively. if the kentucky legislature wants to completely make up their own theory they are more than welcome to. if their theory turns out to be a better model than darwin's then by all means let's teach the one that is the most correct...

Several states (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024869)

It's a race for dominance as the stupidest state in the nation.

Re:Several states (-1, Offtopic)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024937)

It's a race for dominance as the stupidest state in the nation.

Most stupid; 'stupidest' is not a word.

I'd say whichever state you received your education from is obviously a front runner in that race...

Re:Several states (2)

moonwatcher2001 (2710261) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025091)

It's a race for dominance as the stupidest state in the nation.

Most stupid; 'stupidest' is not a word.

It is a word http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stupidest [thefreedictionary.com] stupid (stpd, sty-) adj. stupider, stupidest 1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse. 2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes. 3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake. 4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied. 5. Pointless; worthless: a stupid job. n.

States (-1)

Danzigism (881294) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024871)

I've talked to teachers time and time again that can't stand the federal interference with the local school systems. It's not our business to tell states what they can and cannot do. It's up to their populous to decide. Even though I highly disagree with what they're doing, I agree more with letting states do whatever the hell they want, and ensuring the federal government has less involvement in just about everything besides protecting our country.

Re:States (4, Informative)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024949)

The last time I checked, the ACT wasn't administered by the U.S. government.

Re:States (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024979)

Hey, no problem, be as dumb as you wanna be...just don't ask for any of my federal tax money from up here in the tristate area when your economy is shit due to being filled with retards.

Re:States (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024983)

I'll rate this troll 3/10. Try harder next time.

Re:States (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025047)

I disagree completely.

We can all agree that our national lawmakers suck. Badly. But as amazing as it sounds, state lawmakers are usually even worse. I mean, look at this quote from the article again:

"The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science—Darwin made it up." Waide went on to say that "Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

Is this really the kind of person you want making all the relevant laws?

Now, of course, there are idiots in the national government too, but they generally receive a lot more scrutiny from the media. People really don't pay much attention to what is going on locally - people can usually at least name some national politicians, but almost nobody can name many state politicians, much less give their positions on policies.

Basically, in my experience, the state politicians are frequently even more wacky than their national equivalents. So I'm not sure how shifting responsibilities to lawmakers who are even less scrutinized by the media and public will solve any problems.

Re:States (2)

toriver (11308) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025079)

Preventing teachers from turning students into less than stir fry operator material by refusing to teach science can be called protecting the country.

Be smug. Cue the "stupid hillbilly" lines (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024893)

Meanwhile, ignore your own idiocy about economics:

1. The government is a source of wealth.
2. You can tax-and-spend-and-regulate your way out of a U6 unemployment rate of close to 20% after the loss of millions of jobs.
3. "It's all BOOOSH'S!!!! fault", despite the fact that the dot-com bubble and housing bubbles BOTH started under Clinton (and Bush even tried to fix Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac but was thwarted by Dems like Barney Frank [youtube.com] )
4. "ReTHUGlicans are in bed with bankers", despite the FACT that DEMOCRAT Jon Corzine's company "disappeared" billions of dollars of client money and will face no charges from Obama's corrupt DoJ (led by corruptocrat-in-chief Eric "My People" Holder)

Not mutually exclusive (5, Interesting)

Nushio (951488) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024905)

I am a Catholic guy, but I wasn't raised in the U.S. view's of creationism vs evolution. I am Mexican, and here, they teach us evolution *with* creationism. At church.

At school? They leave the God theories to the church. God has no business in the government schools, and teachers aren't nuns to be teaching kids about God anyway.

The way the Saturday Church classes taught me was that God didn't just create Adam and Eve, but evolved species into Adam and Eve. A simple way to explain it is that God plays Spore on a very big supercomputer with high definition graphics.

I don't get why Christians / Catholics get so pissy about Darwin being a theory and that a maker must've just spawned everything out of thin air. Both theories aren't mutually exclusive. The initial spores could've spawned out of thin air, then evolved into men and women.

And don't get me started with the Big Bang / Genesis thing, as the idea of creating the universe in 7 days is just wrong, but if some dude was shown a fast-forwarded video of the big bang and saw (and wrote) about creation taking place in 7 days, well that'd be a misunderstanding, I think.

Re:Not mutually exclusive (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024939)

i love you?

edit: i shit you not, my captcha is beaners

Re:Not mutually exclusive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024997)

> They leave the God theories to the church

it's not a theory because it's not falsifiable.

Re:Not mutually exclusive (4, Interesting)

vonhammer (992352) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025013)

Most Catholics I know have a similar, "moderate", background with respect to evolution. It's the Protestants that tend to be more fundamentalist and deny evolution. I believe the reason is that, historically, Catholicism has relied on church traditions for its belief system. When the Protestants broke away they needed new source material to justify their path to God, so they turned to the Bible. This propelled them on a course that adheres more to the Bible (and its ancient science).

Re:Not mutually exclusive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025065)

What about noah? Surely you don't deny it was his fault we don't have centaurs and fairies any more!

Re:Not mutually exclusive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025067)

Think about it this way: If you travel back in time (or visit a planet with relatively primitive humans) and show someone a logarithmically-slowing video reconstruction of how humans have reached this point, how will it look to them?

leave catholic out of this (4, Interesting)

aepervius (535155) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025071)

Litteralism and creationism were long abandonned by mainstream catholic, hundred of years ago in europe. If you ask an european catholic he will probably tell you all those stuff including the eve story are jsut that, allegories, and that evolution happened. Both of those phenomenon (litteralism and creationism) are predominentely american phenomenon among christian (rather than protestan/catholic). In fact if I recall correctely they can be traced back to end of 18th start of 19th century in north america.

Re:Not mutually exclusive (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025117)

this push for evolution/darwinism is just as much a religion as creationism. And don't get me started on the big bang. Just give me one example of an organized system coming out of an explosion, then I'd maybe change my mind. An explosion creates chaos, not a PERFECTLY organized system of 'suns' and planets revolving.

Re:Not mutually exclusive (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025129)

I don't get why Christians / Catholics get so pissy about Darwin being a theory and that a maker must've just spawned everything out of thin air. Both theories aren't mutually exclusive. The initial spores could've spawned out of thin air, then evolved into men and women.

Exactly. While I am a lifelong atheist with a science based education (from a family of lifelong atheists with science based educations) even I admit that a LITERAL reading of Genesis in no way contradicts the Big Bang or Evolution theories, from that perspective they just become Gods tools.

Proof that Darwinism doesn't work (2)

erroneus (253617) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024941)

Those stupid fsckers just won't die and they keep reproducing!

Re:Proof that Darwinism doesn't work (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025037)

Only because we've decided that arbitrarily cleaning the gene pool is unjust, illegal and immoral.

Though if the religious war in the US ever turns into a shooting war it could get ugly for the atheists since I suspect that the Bible thumpers the same demographic as the gun owners who think owning automatic weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition is a constitutional right.

Imagine the analogies section (5, Funny)

erikwestlund (1003368) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024945)

Imagine the analogies section:

Creationism : True ::

A) Science : Real
B) Evolution : False
C) Blacks : First-class Citizens
D) Education : Important

Guess the correct answer.

Re:Imagine the analogies section (1)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025081)

heheh so brilliant :) very good

This is a cinch for a perl/python programmer (1)

mallyn (136041) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024971)

Why can't ACT have one big massive pool of questions in its database. For each question, there would be a bit flag field as part of it's entry in the database.

One flag would be christian friendly, another flag would be christian naughty, another would be muslim friendly, another could be muslim nauthty, and so forth.

A mysql or postgress database, along withe some perl/python scripts should be all you need to whip out tests for each of the fifty states. In fact, you can have a state table in the database; one row for each of the 50 states and territories. The scripts can then match the flags for each state with the flags for each of the test questions.

I could probably whip up something in less than a day.

progressing science... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024973)

Question:

rather than landing rovers on mars, at what point could we recieve an equatable amount of scientific progress by landing rovers on Kentucky Lawmakers?

or to put it another way, maybe this balloon would rise faster without the dead weight?

Increase immigration then (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41024981)

When business claims there are no locally qualified people with the skills they need and request to look outside the country, they should point to stuff like this. When lawmakers with political agendas are doing everything they can to limit the education of students, they shouldn't have anything against people from other places taking jobs away from them. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. But they are just too darn stupid to realize it, due to their poor education.

Theory of gravity (5, Funny)

moonwatcher2001 (2710261) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024985)

Gravity is just a theory. They need to teach "Intelligent Falling" in KY. Students need to know that objects fall because the Flying Spaghetti Monster pushes them down with it's noodley apendages.

Evolution IS a Theory, just like Gravity. (1)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 2 years ago | (#41024989)

Evolution is a theory just like gravity and relativity. Would Ben Wade deny that gravity is real?

Does Ben Wade know what a theory actually is? I suspect Ben Wade is a fucking moron, and not qualified to do his job, let alone even speak on the complex nature of evolution, biology, chemistry, math, cosmology.

Anyone doubting evolution is just dumb. Read a fucking book Ben Wade... and no, NOT THAT STUPID FUCKING BIBLE.

Just because something is a theory... (4, Insightful)

Skuld-Chan (302449) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025001)

Doesn't mean it isn't true.

Theories make all these electronics work, theories make radio/cellphones/broadcasting work. I took a weather class in college and found out there's three theories on why it rains.

It still rains :).

A change in the way we talk about this is needed (5, Insightful)

snaildarter (1143695) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025027)

Specifically, the term "creationism" is inadequate. What we really mean here is "Christian creationism." That puts a finer point on it, and lets everyone in the conversation know exactly what we mean. I think it even exposes the proponents of it to some enlightenment on what they're really saying.

I think an argument has more weight when you say, "Do you mean to tell me that you want Christian creationism taught instead of evolution? Do you think other religions' creationist ideologies should be taught as well?"

From now on, every time I get caught up in this argument, I will use the term, "Christian creationism," and not just "creationism."

Talibubbas (1)

Crypto Cavedweller (2611959) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025035)

Shouldn't they just rename Kentucky "Western Waziristan" so they can really feel more at home? Same freakin' mindset.

Welcome to the "christian" taliban (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025041)

The religious right would like to impose the christan version of sharia law on the United States. Little by little they will take away your right to think, then and only then will they be satisfied. Don't forget earlier this year Texas banned the teaching of critical thinking. We can't have children challenging their parents!

"Idiocracy" had it wrong (2)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025075)

People are stupid not because of any dumbass (and borderline racist) misinterpretation of how natural selection works [xkcd.com] , but because religious assholes with a lot of money are fucking up the education system.

Instead of accommodating religious politicians by making an extra "religious" test just for their constituency, they should be thrown out of office. Institute a requirement that candidates have at least a middle-school level of scientific literacy in order to become part of the government.

Dear Ann Druyan, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and... (4, Insightful)

Velex (120469) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025083)

Dear Ann Druyan, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and Seth MacFarlane,

How can we speed up the production of Cosmos: A Space-Time Odyssey? Is there somewhere we can throw more money at it?

Won't somebody think of the children?

Thanks,
A Very Concerned Human Being

Ob Futurama (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025097)

I don't want to live on this planet any more.

Where to start? (2)

whitroth (9367) | more than 2 years ago | (#41025119)

First, none of them appear to know the definition of the word "theory", confusing it with "I had too much bheer and pizza last night, and had this crazy-ass idea...."

But there's a simple answer: I propose a test of the Theory of Relativity by having them walk into the containment vessel of a nuclear reactor with no protection, and they can demonstrate that Einstein "made it all up".

                  mark "ok, you: out of the gene pool, *NOW*"

How in the hell do these people get elected? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41025139)

Seriously!?!?!?!?
WTF!

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