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Some Players Want Day-1 DLC, Says BioWare

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the just-not-the-ones-who-whine-on-the-internet dept.

Businesses 357

An anonymous reader writes "Speaking at GDC Europe this week, BioWare Montreal's Fernando Melo spoke about how the oft-disparaged first-day downloadable content for video games is actually something a significant amount of players want. 'Melo argued that on the occasions when BioWare hasn't provided DLC from day one, those players who complete the game quickly then complained that there was nothing more to play and asked for extra content. If DLC isn't provided for these players, they may well move on to a different game and never come back to play DLC later on. As proof that day one DLC also works in terms of sales, Melo said that 53 percent of all sales for the first Dragon Age: Origins DLC pack — which was released on the same day as the full game — were made on release day."

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Are you serious? (5, Insightful)

NettiWelho (1147351) | about 2 years ago | (#41040909)

They want the frigging Day-1 DLC because the content currently in Day-1 DLC was supposed to be in Day-0 product.

Re:Are you serious? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041271)

Agreed.

What this shows is that the serving size of the base game was simply too small.

And that some people would rather order additional sides than go to a different restaurant with larger mains...

Re:Are you serious? (3, Insightful)

trunicated (1272370) | about 2 years ago | (#41041471)

Day 1 DLC is generally worked on in the months between going gold and certification. Would it be better for them to add an arbitrary delay so that the DLC, which is completed in time for day 1, is instead delivered on day 30 or 60? Granted, this is generally the reason with Console games, but then again most day 1 DLC is for consoles (and their PC versions).

Re:Are you serious? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041487)

Why not just release the game as soon as it goes gold? Why add an arbitrary delay so that you can get a cool release date?

Re:Are you serious? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041577)

Because there's a certification process required by the platform owner to ensure baseline quality. During that process only bug fixes go into the product. Once approved for physical media, there's manufacturing and logistics to get the game in the stores, etc. that also adds significant delay.

Bottom line is, for a AAA game, there's a good 2 months at the very least before launch when nothing much goes on with the game. DLC is worked on in that period, and if it doesn't hit the mark and needs 2-3 weeks more, it's not a big deal. Risk management.

I'm a game developper and I know people like to rag on DLC and how it's bad and mean (But 20$ expansion packs were totally cool back in the day, go figure), but it's extra content. Yes, there's on-disc DLC (most often tied into promotion with different stores) and stuff like that. Yes there are DLC packages that are a total rip-off. But it's just a delivery method...

Re:Are you serious? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041793)

NO, it doesn't feel like extra content! People felt expansion packs were totally cool cause THEY _ARE_ TOTALLY COOL. Day 1 and Month 1 DLCs feel like aspects that were planned for the game and then taken out during the meeting with marketing & sales, or budgeting. DLC should NOT feel like the missing parts of a game. What were "expansion packs" of yesterday feel like the of sequels today, and yes, they are still cool. DLC feels like crap.

Re:Are you serious? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041865)

NO, it doesn't feel like extra content! People felt expansion packs were totally cool cause THEY _ARE_ TOTALLY COOL. Day 1 and Month 1 DLCs feel like aspects that were planned for the game and then taken out during the meeting with marketing & sales, or budgeting. DLC should NOT feel like the missing parts of a game. What were "expansion packs" of yesterday feel like the of sequels today, and yes, they are still cool. DLC feels like crap.

This person hits in on the head. In the old days expansion packs were more like sequels (or intermediate episodes until the actual sequel), they always took place after the game.

DLCs on the other hand tend to be content that didn't make it into the game, this is apparent in that they are usually set inside the timeline of the game rather than after it. It's really obvious when the game refers to the DLC content, making it apparent that it was cut out (or deliberately held behind). Fallout: New Vegas is a good example of this with the Lonesome Road DLC, right from the first hour of the game NPCs are already referencing it. Also unlike Fallout 3 which had DLCs retcon their entrances into the game world where they didn't exist before (entire buildings popping out of nowhere) in New Vegas the entrances to the DLC locations are not only already in the game world but even have quick-travel points on the map.

The developers of Fallout: New Vegas admitted that the game needed another several months to truly be finished, just about everything in the DLCs was meant to be in the game itself (and would have been much better integrated into it) and even the game world map has huge areas that you never visit (that empty space to the West is where The Divide is located). However the publishers would much rather put those parts into DLCs so they can charge more for it, then later release a new edition of the game with all the DLCs included (and the price jacked up to cover it).

Re:Are you serious? (5, Insightful)

Internetuser1248 (1787630) | about 2 years ago | (#41041533)

I don't know about consoles, but in PC games this is called a patch. If there is still work to be done in the 30-60 days before release that can't be included in the main release, you release it as a patch on day 1. What is the difference between dlc and a patch you ask? Easy, dlc is a patch that costs money. Support companies like tripwire interactive. Their game Red Orchestra patched in 3 separate content expansions over the game's lifetime, and users weren't charged a cent. These expansions contained new maps, vehicles, skins, weapons, just about a complete new version of the game. Tripwire is also just an example, there are many companies that continue to support and reward their customers for the initial purchase. Bioware used to be good. New bioware can suck my dick, and if they are very very good at it they might get some liquid dlc.

Re:Are you serious? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041635)

I don't know about consoles, but in PC games this is called a patch. If there is still work to be done in the 30-60 days before release that can't be included in the main release, you release it as a patch on day 1. What is the difference between dlc and a patch you ask? Easy, dlc is a patch that costs money. Support companies like tripwire interactive. Their game Red Orchestra patched in 3 separate content expansions over the game's lifetime, and users weren't charged a cent. These expansions contained new maps, vehicles, skins, weapons, just about a complete new version of the game. Tripwire is also just an example, there are many companies that continue to support and reward their customers for the initial purchase. Bioware used to be good. New bioware can suck my dick, and if they are very very good at it they might get some liquid dlc.

The problem is the stupidity of niggers hired through affirmative action has diluted the talent pool of Bioware. They tried to do ebonics version of C++ and it wound up even worse than the way their gutter tendencies have butchered english.

Re:Are you serious? (2)

lessthan (977374) | about 2 years ago | (#41041671)

Actually, the difference between DLC and a patch is a that a patch is supposed to fix and DLC is supposed to add. I liked the Bioware DLC for Dragons Age. It wasn't a part of the story, but it added to it.

Re:Are you serious? (2)

Seumas (6865) | about 2 years ago | (#41041551)

I have a better idea.

Stop milking the current game and work on the next expansion or the next title in the franchise or something entirely new? Think of all the wasted time in "let's add five new stupid missions to this open world game!" and "let's add fourteen new hats and twelve tee-shirts!" development.

How is it that a game used to be able to launch and six months or a year later, they could release a huge $30 expansion pack with a crap-ton of content and a lot of thought put into it? Yet, today, they have to release new content every two to four weeks from and including the date of launch -- mostly filled with meaningless crap and padding rather than full-fledged content?

Re:Are you serious? (1)

Rix (54095) | about 2 years ago | (#41041641)

And there's absolutely no reason they couldn't just release it as a patch.

If they want to make a full expansion, no one would complain.

Re:Are you serious? (1)

Doctor_Jest (688315) | about 2 years ago | (#41041759)

Since we have delays all the time in the gaming world, why not wait until the DLC is done, or better yet, stop working on DLC as an add-on and fix the original game? That way, when the game's out for a while, a company can extend the life of the game (not horse armor *cough*) adding additional quests, etc. Adding "new armor types" and so forth (unless tied to a quest) would be pointless and milks the dough of the user who already likes the game because he purchased it.

I would say that slicing up resources so a game can have DLC at launch is needlessly spreading development thin and allowing game-killing bugs to creep into already complex games (Fallout, Fallout:New Vegas, Skyrim anyone?)

Re:Are you serious? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041843)

This might be a valid argument if it were actually true, but the DLC are planned months or years in advance and worked on well before the gold date. The new Sim City, for example, had day 1 DLC announced alongside the game. Even in the pre alpha stage they had already begun planning and developing the DLC for the first day of release.

Completely serious (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041691)

So long as people keep paying for the Day-1 DLC, publishers will keep releasing games in pieces like this.

If you want them to get the message, don't hate on the forums. Hate by keeping your money. That is the only language they understand.

Well fuck. (4, Insightful)

XiaoMing (1574363) | about 2 years ago | (#41040919)

You know what that really means? We're now going to "get what we want" because more companies will just leave out things that would be in the game otherwise and monetize it into "Day1 DLC" instead.

Re:Well fuck. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41040959)

Yeah, and if your game takes me only a day to complete I doubt I'm going to bother to pay for your DLC.

Re:Well fuck. (5, Interesting)

poity (465672) | about 2 years ago | (#41041525)

Seriously, who are these people who finish an RPG in 1 day? Do they pay for a hooker and finish in 2 minutes? Do they order a fine steak and drink it out of a blender? What the world?

Re:Well fuck. (1)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | about 2 years ago | (#41040981)

Yeah, well, Piratebay is great to unmonetize content, so we'll see how that DLC strategy goes.

Re:Well fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041145)

Yeah, well, Piratebay is great to unmonetize content, so we'll see how that DLC strategy goes.

Because code monkeys don't deserve to get paid, right?

I'll agree that paying $60 or more for a piece of software, let alone a game, is ludicrous. However pirating a game, no matter how much you want it or how poor (aka cheap) you are doesn't give you the right to steal someone else's work. If you don't want to pay the price, don't. But then you don't get the product. We're not talking about food or medicine. You don't have a Pasta given right to free entertainment.

Re:Well fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041283)

If you're stupid enough to still work for Bioware after these last ten months, you have nobody to blame for your misfortunes but yourself.

Re:Well fuck. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041287)

They get paid, even before the game goes on sale, it's called a salary.

Or do you believe in some magical world where they get a percentage of the sales?
Either that or you have been exposed to way too much propaganda that you actually started to believe it.

Re:Well fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041589)

Not percentage of sales, but bonuses based on sales and critical reception. Yes, for some of us, it's a very significant part of our income (27% for me last year)

Glad to know my world is magica.

Re:Well fuck. (1)

Kalriath (849904) | about 2 years ago | (#41041859)

And the company that pays them teleports the money in from the Aether. Of course.

Your logic is flawed.

Re:Well fuck. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041315)

This is stupid.

It makes no difference to the company whether you play a game or not, the only thing that matters is whether you pay for it. If you pirate to save money, then yes that's wrong. If you pirate because you were not going to buy it anyway, then that's fine.

Companies need to learn to offer good games. Day 1 DLCs are scams. Short games are scams. DRM is a scam. The moment your game has any of these attributes, I do not buy it. However I do buy a few dozen games and spend over $1000 a year on games that do not have any of the above.
And if you still don't like the fact that I pirate your DRM-ridden game, well just tell yourself that you scammed all the people who bought it and didn't deserve all that money in the first place.

But more importantly: I did not pirate until recently. I was in full boycott mode when it came to music, movies and games I didn't like.
But then some companies decided they could violate our rights to make profits - you've heard of SOPA I presume. From then on, this was war. I no longer care about being nice and doing the right thing and not using what I didn't pay for. Now I download for free from all the companies who supported SOPA or tried to make DRM circumvention illegal, etc. Now I want to take advantage of those scumbags. Thank you for the free games, EA and Ubisoft (and others). That's what you get when you fuck with me.

Also, what are you going to do to stop me? Pass SOPA 2? LOL!
Go cry under a couch, clown.

Re:Well fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041511)

If you pirate to save money, then yes that's wrong.

I disagree with your definition of 'wrong'. Now you're not getting any imaginary money from me!

Re:Well fuck. (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about 2 years ago | (#41041567)

But more importantly: I did not pirate until recently. I was in full boycott mode when it came to music, movies and games I didn't like.
But then some companies decided they could violate our rights to make profits - you've heard of SOPA I presume. From then on, this was war. I no longer care about being nice and doing the right thing and not using what I didn't pay for. Now I download for free from all the companies who supported SOPA or tried to make DRM circumvention illegal, etc.

What's that going to do? Whether you download it or boycott it, the effect is almost exactly the same (except that in one scenario, you have a game). It's not as if they lose money they already possess if you download their game, so you might as well have just continued boycotting them.

Re:Well fuck. (1, Insightful)

Kalriath (849904) | about 2 years ago | (#41041879)

If you pirate because you were not going to buy it anyway, then that's fine.

No, it's not. Clearly you've decided you actually want the game and will derive some enjoyment from it. Therefore it has a value to you, and you're just pirating because you're cheap. This "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" line is the biggest load of bullshit ever spouted, because 90% of the people saying it are just spouting the party line to justify that they're cheapskates who don't feel they should have to pay for someone else's work.

Re:Well fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041325)

Nice strawman there.

Code monkeys deserve to get paid. Once.

You make a game, you charge me for it. Once.

You make a game, you do not withhold on-disc content and charge me per item to access it.

If there is extra content on a game disc which I have paid for, I see no moral problem with using a crack to access it.

If you do not want me to access the content: do not put it on the disc you are selling.

Re:Well fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041615)

Not being a strawman.

Oh, I agree with you there. I have no problem with people that reverse engineer games to create their own mods or community driven content. Cracks to access anything on disc or in game save files are more than fair game.

I have a big problem with people that think it's okay to download the original game, and all it's patches, updates, expansions and downloadable content just because they are too cheap. Then, like the above asshats, they'll spew some righteous indignation that by not paying they are making some kind of socio-political comment or sticking it to the man, and by stealing they have the moral high ground. Guess what - they don't. They're fucking thieves. You might not like paying 15 bucks to go to see a movie in the theatre, but sneaking in to see it is still wrong. This is the same thing.

What a lot of you are failing to realize is this - DLC and subscriptions (probably WoW is the only one left that still has a successful subscription model) are sometimes worked into accounting and budgeting costs when developing a game. Don't like it - don't buy it. PLAY SOMETHING ELSE. Sometimes games suck. If the game sucks, the developer deserves to go belly up, like Kurt Schillings dev house. Sometimes the games are good - take League of Legends for example. I stand by my original thought that $60 for a game is too fucking much - $20 up front is a much better price point. Even better, give me the first couple levels for free, then allow me to purchase the rest of the game if it doesn't suck. The freemium model rocks in my opinion. But to expect everything for free, that's just wrong.

Re:Well fuck. (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about 2 years ago | (#41041723)

and by stealing they have the moral high ground. Guess what - they don't.

Well, this matter is about copyright infringement. But whether or not they have the "moral high ground" (whatever that means) is completely subjective. I think it's rather pointless since it's not as if you're taking away the company's existing money, but it's still an opinion. The fact that it's consistently stated as a fact doesn't mean it is a fact.

Re:Well fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041445)

As a code monkey myself I also realize I don't have a pasta given right to prevent others from sharing ideas I've created. That's an artificial right given to me by the state which has been corrupted into the blasphemy that is modern day copyright law. So if someone wants to practice civil disobedience, I can't blame them. As long as they understand that it might mean less content in the future (if taken to an extreme, the same as will happen if the modern extreme of perpetual copyright continues ironically).

Re:Well fuck. (1)

poetmatt (793785) | about 2 years ago | (#41041535)

Code monkeys can and do get paid.

The jackass who thinks you shouldn't have all the content available on day one of the game (even though development is finished) not only shouldn't be paid, but should be fired and has no place in this business.

Quit making such an asinine argument, bioware blowhard.

Re:Well fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041689)

Really? Most dev studios have to borrow a lot of money to produce a modern game. Players expect voice actors, cut scenes, orchestral music... it's ridiculous. And yes, while working on the game the rank and file cod monkeys do get paid. Some do get stock ptions and bonuses depending upon sales, but more importantly, they have a job to continue to go to and work on the next game (or patches/expansions for the current game) when people buy their game. If the game sucks, well, they'll lose their job. If the game is good, they won't. But what gives a bunch of 40 year old mouthbreathers the right to not pay because mommy only gives them so much allowance each week?

Re:Well fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041191)

We're not going to 'get what we want'; the research is bullshit.

DLC? really? (5, Insightful)

tulmad (25666) | about 2 years ago | (#41040943)

Or you could, I dunno, release the whole fucking game all at once.

Re:DLC? really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41040975)

I wish I had mod points to mod you up. Companies are deliberately only providing limited content on the disk to make more money through DLC when they used to put the whole experience on the disk you buy.

Re:DLC? really? (3, Insightful)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | about 2 years ago | (#41041173)

True. And that's mostly because they are now making games too full of shiny. Lots of cutscenes, voice actors, gorgeous maps and models, a plethora of sidequests... which is great, really, but it drives the cost of the thing way up. And in the midst of all that, they often forget to make the game interesting to play. Or even finish the damn thing. Me, I'd rather have lots of 9.99 games like Braid than 59.99 + 9.99 DLC like Mass Effect 3. The first is way cheaper to make, but incredible from start to finish and never, ever, feels stale. An engrossing experience from start to finish. The latter is amazing mostly because of its magnitude, but its gameplay is quite repetitive, most of its characters feel superfluous because of the current trend towards extreme story modularization (which is The Way Of The DLC, BTW) and... let's just not speak about that sorry excuse for an ending, ok?

Re:DLC? really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041013)

Or you could, I dunno, release the whole fucking game all at once.

Or maybe developers could release a smaller, yet better made game because they don't have the pressure to add in all this other stuff at once.

Then after some bug squashing on a smaller product, and maybe after some break from slogging this game out, developers could come up with newer fresher ideas and do a better job on some quality DLC. Everyone wins?

Maybe I'm old and crotchety, but the current generation's "I want it all and I want it now!" attitude seems really, really short sighted, if not completely impractical in the Real World(tm).

Re:DLC? really? (3, Insightful)

White Flame (1074973) | about 2 years ago | (#41041053)

I'm old and crotchety and can't stand that sort of whining either, but I think it's less "I want it now" and more to do with what publishers can get away for their boxed releases. I think the gaming audience does have some legitimate complaints about this sort of stuff.

Re:DLC? really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041353)

I don't really care if I have it all in the beginning or not.

What I do care about is whether my dlc is going to be worthwhile (like an expansion pack with new levels, new storyline, etc). I don't want day1 dlc that consists of 3 extra weapons and a skin, and costs ten bucks. For like 6 lines of code.

you're telling me you needed the extra time to make THAT? Really? Really?

Re:DLC? really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041399)

If you're old then you should know that today, a game + a day 1 DLC is still shorter and has less content than a full game 10 years ago.
Remember those old school RPGs that could take you days to complete because there were so many things to do?

Bioware are just rephrasing the issue like a bunch of morons.
Players want content for their money, they want the same amount of content that used to be offered not that long ago. It's not about DLC, it's only about how long a game will last you when you buy it. It's Bioware who's making it about DLC.

In the end however, complaining achieves nothing. Players need to refuse to buy games with poor content (and if you can't know in advance if the game is too short, just boycott the next one from the same company). That's how the economy works; if you buy a short game for $60, then that's what a short game is worth and it's your own fault as a customer for giving it that much value.
Sadly few people can stick to principles. Most will refuse to boycott by claiming nobody else will follow and thus it's useless to deprive yourself of a good game.
Personally I have self-esteem and I take pride in not giving my money to companies whom I feel try to rip me off, but that's just me. Most people are sluts for material possessions.

Re:DLC? really? (4, Insightful)

TFAFalcon (1839122) | about 2 years ago | (#41041069)

Exactly. It's interesting that the Bioware drone mentions Dragon Age, since the DLC was advertised IN the game. You reached a quest giver, and he told you that you had to buy his quest!

Re:DLC? really? (3, Informative)

Tapewolf (1639955) | about 2 years ago | (#41041261)

Exactly. It's interesting that the Bioware drone mentions Dragon Age, since the DLC was advertised IN the game. You reached a quest giver, and he told you that you had to buy his quest!

And that is the reason I never completed the game, I got sick to death of having the suspension of disbelief ruined by its blatant attempts to nickle-and-dime me.
  Okay, so I was kind of pissed that I wasn't going to get the Werewolf Army I'd hoped for to battle the undead, but what pushed me to breaking point was finding someone on the way to the Dwarf City who was desperate to have their Significant Other rescued or somesuch. I figured it would help me get over losing the wolf army, so I agreed - and he demanded money for the privilege of having his beloved back. So I played System Shock instead.

Re:DLC? really? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041251)

The one that gets me is the "DLC" that isn't even DLC. Instead, it just unlocks content that was already on the CD/DVD.

Re:DLC? really? (1)

Valcrus (1242564) | about 2 years ago | (#41041539)

Yeah but how else would they fleece the masses for extra money? What happened to a good game that you could replay and maybe a year or so later get an addon or something else that had been made after the first game was finished. Its why I buy almost no new games anymore. I get sick of the "Oh look we made a new game! Oh and btw while making the game we took a bunch of extra stuff out and if you want it you can buy it for extra the day you get the game!"

Re:DLC? really? (1)

Absolut187 (816431) | about 2 years ago | (#41041881)

Your definition of "the whole fucking game" differs from the publisher.

Guess who gets to decide that.

Your only vote is: buy or don't buy.

Nobody reads the rants on the forums.

or maybe... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41040947)

the dlc takes the place of the length that games used to have. Not that companies like bioware and bethesda are known for short games, but if the material has to be released on day 1 why not make it part of the game. Part of this probably has to do with the grueling deadlines for publishing these days.

How about instead of releasing day 1 DLC, they do special release events or challenges that you have to complete the game quickly to get access to? That way the people who grind through games as quick as possible get a special thing to keep their attention, while everyone else gets a game that is more or less complete without having to buy DLC on the first day.

Solution (3, Funny)

Mystra_x64 (1108487) | about 2 years ago | (#41040979)

I have a solution for you. Just release half of your game and put the rest in DLC. Pure genius. Too bad it's not just my imagination.

Re:Solution (1)

White Flame (1074973) | about 2 years ago | (#41041025)

Even better, release the first half for free and do like the classic shareware model (without the sharing, I guess).

Re:Solution (2)

stms (1132653) | about 2 years ago | (#41041199)

I know you're being sarcastic but episodic gaming would be a better solution for what these companies want to do. You could either buy a game pass for $60 and get all the DLC as it comes out for free or you could buy each individual DLC as it comes out which would be a bit more in the end. They could charge some people more for their game and would piss fewer people off the only downside is they couldn't do a big release all at once.

Re:Solution (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041359)

I wouldn't mind the episodic approach at all, even if all 15 episodes were available on day 0, so long as they were reasonably priced.

But they'd probably fuck it up by selling a disc containing all 15 episodes, then asking for individual payments to unlock each, and a month wait between each before they will accept payment for the next.

Re:Solution (4, Funny)

Exitar (809068) | about 2 years ago | (#41041323)

Just release the loading screen and put the *whole* game in DLC!

this idiot needs to see EA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41040985)

EA EA
EA

I bet those players... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041005)

...would prefer if that content was included in the game in the first place.

Still doesn't explain why... (4, Insightful)

Sydin (2598829) | about 2 years ago | (#41041017)

They don't just take that "Day One DLC" that everybody wants so much, and just makes it a part of the initial release at no extra charge. Why does it have to be DLC at all? It's already finished and ready to be played, right? So why isn't already on the disk with the rest of the content I bought? If people are finishing your game and complaining they want more to do, it doesn't mean people want to pay MORE for more content. It means people didn't feel they got $60 worth of content in the game, only for the publisher to turn around and demand more money if you want to be satisfied. If somebody orders a full cake, you cannot only give them 3/4's of it, charge extra for the remaining 1/4, and then turn around and claim that people are obviously clamoring to pay for that extra 1/4. That's now how it works, Bioware.

Throw-away culture (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041045)

Maybe these people need to learn to get off the computer and do something else for a few hours.

I personally feel the only games worth buying are ones l would want to play over and over, much like a good book, or film, or any other form of art. And since when do I have time to play through fifty hours of mediocre content? Just keep it short and sweet.

translation (4, Insightful)

Trepidity (597) | about 2 years ago | (#41041051)

When he says there are players who "want" Day-1 DLC, what he means is that there are players who will buy Day-1 DLC. Therefore Bioware is going to keep doing it.

Bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041061)

Subject

Yeah (1)

netdigger (847764) | about 2 years ago | (#41041073)

Yeah I want day one DLC but I dont want to pay for it. That shit should come with the game.

Ugh, not this again. (3, Insightful)

DrEldarion (114072) | about 2 years ago | (#41041081)

People who rail against day 1 DLC have no idea how releasing a game works. Especially with giant sprawling games, once you near the release date, there are a lot of specialists who have completed their contribution to the final project. Artists may be done with their portion, story writers may be done with their portion, certain programming teams may be done with their portion, etc. They need something to do, so they start working on DLC.

"Ah, but they could put that right on the disc in the first place!", you may say. No, they can't. By this point, the game needs to be finalized so they can thoroughly test it, create a master copy, and begin mass production. In the month(s) that this can take on a large title, there's plenty of time to get a significant DLC pack out.

Now, I'm not saying ALL day 1 DLC is because of this (especially rageworthy is something that's on-disc but a day 1 "unlock" DLC) but a very significant portion is. They're not trying to cheat you out of content you should have had, they're just making good use of the time it takes for a game to go from finished to available in stores.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041127)

You could be right, if there weren't the day 1 patch, day 14 patch, day 45 patch, etc.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (3, Insightful)

DrEldarion (114072) | about 2 years ago | (#41041195)

How often do YOU write code for ridiculously complex systems that always works for every use case anyone ever throws at it and stays bug free forever?

I'm not in the game industry, but with the projects I work on things are somewhat parallel. There are people (DB admins, UI designers, etc) whose contributions are mostly in the beginning of a project who can start working on V2 features once they've finished up the V1 stuff. Bugs happen, and they need to be fixed after people start using the product in weird ways and uncover them.

I'd think that Slashdot of all places would have people who understand how this stuff works.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041453)

Sorry, but some games have been so horribly broken that it's simply unacceptable. Make up whatever lousy excuses you want; I'm not buying it (or any games from that company).

Customers, again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041497)

You forget the most important thing in any business regardless of sector: customers.

Give them what they want (regardless of how silly or selfish the demand) or they will go elsewhere.

With digital content there is another factor to consider. If I feel slighted by a company that I give money to, why would I give them any more when any torrent site can give me a better product, faster, and for free?

Seems that you are the one with the entitlement issues. Customers don't owe you a salary, they don't owe you anything. It is up to you to prove that you are worthy of your salary by making the customer feel good about giving it to you.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (1)

medv4380 (1604309) | about 2 years ago | (#41041545)

The Console gaming industry is a bit different. You get a set spec where you know what the hardware will be. And up until the advent of HDD being included "Patching" wasn't an option. QA is much better when the industry doesn't rely on patching and DLC to correct their games.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041135)

and the likes of Capcom who are pushing out day 1 DLC even with staggered releases between regions? The content is finished, it's a scam.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (3, Informative)

Dyinobal (1427207) | about 2 years ago | (#41041149)

There have been times where the 'day 1 dlc' data was on the disk, and all buying the dlc did was allow you to access it.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041293)

Isn't this the norm?

Saints Row: The Third had this, 12 different paid DLC on-disc, and it took 10 months for them to all be purchasable. (The game was released in November, and they only just "released" the final on-disc DLC last week)

Cracking the game allowed access to all 12 on day 1.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041167)

Logic is useless against the "I want a pony and I want it NOW for FREE" people who've never put in an honest day's work.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041221)

And the only way the day 1 dlc can be released on day 1 is if all the specialists have finished working on the game. If only one group of specialists haven't finished to work on the main game then dlc cannot be finished on day 1. It can be started though but not finished.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (2)

_Ludwig (86077) | about 2 years ago | (#41041407)

So why doesn’t the DLC require the same amount of thorough testing, mastering, etc.?

Re:Ugh, not this again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041521)

Because concept artists which are no longer working on the main game can magically do level design and quality assurance for the DLC while level designers and QA are busy polishing the main game.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041675)

Why not? I do database interfacing for business applications and when that is done I have to do the UI and then QA until it ships. If you have a job doing only one thing you are spoiled and not living up to your own potential.

Re:Ugh, not this rebuttal again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041419)

I rail against day 1 DLC because Saints Row: The Third had 12 DLC packs on-disc in the first place. This was proven on day 3 when a crack was released which unlocked all on-disc DLC.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041503)

Only that's not the thing here. You realize how often the DLC comes on the "MASS PRODUCED" disc, right? It's already there, already bug tested, already RELEASED. They're making you pay to unlock it FROM THE DISC. THAT is content that should already be in the game, because guess what, they just sold you the disc and the game already.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041781)

They don't need to make disks for games any more.
Every game I've bought in the past 3 years has been downloaded.
So now I go to pay for an activation key, download the game resources, start it, and then buy the content of the game.
Great. Just make the game 120 dollars and be done with it.

Re:Ugh, not this again. (1)

Luke727 (547923) | about 2 years ago | (#41041817)

All of that may be true, but perception is reality; it just feels like a ripoff to a lot of people. I mean, how did the industry work before the advent of DLC?

But my issue with DLC is not specific to day 1. With DLC you are ultimately paying more for less. Typical game goes for $60; let's say you get 20 hours out of it. Now some DLC comes out for $10 and you get 2 hours out of it. You pay 1/6 the cost of the game but only get 1/10 the gameplay.

Number (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041107)

Significant number, not amount, you illiterate fuckhole.

Hilarious (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041113)

Considering that just a few posts down is an article about EA putting themselves up on the market because social gaming is apparently kicking them in the knee sales-wise.

Re:Hilarious (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041175)

I'm skeptical that "social" gaming is actually taking many customers away from real games. Rather, it's monetizing a whole new segment of the market. EA's shitty business practices and mediocre products are what did it in.

DLC to keep players engaged? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041141)

So there are players that complete the game quickly, say 20 hours of playtime, and they require day one DLC because that extra (less than 20 hours) content will then keep them engaged for a month or so until the next snippet of content is released?

Does that mean we will now get day two DLC, or should we as gamers just wait until the whole game is released and then buy the GotY edition for less than half the price from when the first instalment is released?

Car analogy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041225)

That's like saying, "Well, our survey shows that all customers who bought our tireless vehicles also bought the special-add-on tires on the same day!"

BioWare logic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041231)

Some people say everyone alive should give me $1000.

How about one week DLC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041245)

There is no one who will tell you they are glad to get day 1 DLC, paying extra for something that was made before the game was release and thus should've been included with the game. And of course they want more content if the game is good, BUT, not everyone complete big games like Mass Effect and what not on the first day, you can easily get away by releasing the DLC a week or two after release.

Wait, Wait, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041313)

DLC sells more on day 1 than any other day? Well DUH, it's the first day the game is available! More people are going to enter into a transaction related to that game because of that fact. There's no way you can connect that number to "people love Day One DLC!"

Not that it matters, I guess. If people are buying it, they'll sell it. Profit motive conquers all.

Just wait (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041327)

Wait until the "game of the year" or "platinum edition" or "gold edition" or "diamond edition" or "complete edition" goes on sale for $10 and you'll have ALL the DLC on day 1. On top of that, most of the compatibility and quest bugs will have been squashed.

Problem solved.

Re:Just wait (1)

game kid (805301) | about 2 years ago | (#41041387)

But then I'd pay $40 for a "$60" game instead of $120! Why would I want that to happen!?

Re:Just wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041637)

Oh, if I had mod points (or an account for that matter). This is exactly what I do.
While I don't get the nicety of watching the "pretty" when everyone else does, there are far fewer bugs, people have figured out workarounds for the persistent ones and I don't have to pay for a cutting edge computer.

Obligatory for this post: http://xkcd.com/606/ [xkcd.com]

In related news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041391)

Some players want to be bound and whipped, says BioWare.

Customer survey among EA customers has shown a tendency toward masochism and sticking with abusive relationships. To appease the fanbase, preorder version of BioWare's upcoming title, Dragon Age III, will include a ticket for mandatory sessions of bondage and discipline. Strap-on wearing dominatrix will be available as a Day 1 Expansion.

Re:In related news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041449)

Dragon Age III, will include a ticket for mandatory sessions of bondage and discipline. Strap-on wearing dominatrix will be available as a Day 1 Expansion.

I would preorder that!

DLC this! (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about 2 years ago | (#41041489)

I suspect all those 1st day DLC people were just grabbing it since it was available, rather than that they finished the regular game that day and went elsewhere bored.

Contrary to what companies think, even easy upgrades are still a pain in the ass, and it's far easier to just add another thing to the cart at the same time as the main game, than it is to come back and root around later.

Just wait (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 2 years ago | (#41041501)

In a few months we'll be hearing how all their loses in revenue as of late is due to piracy... and has nothing to do with their "Lets squeeze blood from a stone" business model.

I'll buy day 1 DLC for the few games I play. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041527)

And I'll buy the limited edition and lifetime subscriptions if available. Mostly just for Warhammer 40k. Vote with your wallet for f'cks sake.

Depends on the kind of Day 1 DLC (1)

flimflammer (956759) | about 2 years ago | (#41041623)

Day 1 DLC that was on the disc to begin with is not content anyone should be paying money for. It is the most perverse form of DLC and all you're really "downloading" is the key to unlock it.

Day 1 DLC that is a result of work done after the game is gold yet still having the business end finalized are welcome in my opinion. This is the content I can see people finding value in. This is the content I would not mind spending money on.

Of course the distinction between these are often lost to the masses who either don't understand or choose not to listen. BioWare should have clarified that no one wants content locked in the disc, but they don't really care one way or the other, I'm sure.

Since when do they care what customers want (1)

Dorianny (1847922) | about 2 years ago | (#41041679)

A lot of customers want games without draconian DRM protection schemes and I don't see that happening!

Re:Since when do they care what customers want (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41041755)

Try looking? http://www.gog.com/ [gog.com] for starters

X-Com (1)

the_Bionic_lemming (446569) | about 2 years ago | (#41041697)

I have been playing that game for about ten years now, and there was no DLC for it.

MOO 2? Same.

I think they are just trying to justify alternate revenue streams by lying.

Re:X-Com (1)

the_Bionic_lemming (446569) | about 2 years ago | (#41041777)

heh, brain burp there, I have had x-com for almost twice that long.

(I went to an Italian Birthday Party yesterday - Grappa has done some work on my noggin)

Re:X-Com (3, Informative)

calmofthestorm (1344385) | about 2 years ago | (#41041815)

Ditto, except MOO 1 not MOO 2 (I play it some but it's just not as good as the original).

Speaking of not as good as the original, I also still play TFTD. Tacky and unoriginal as the story may be, it has some elements I like.

BTW have you seen XComUtil? (ironically, the guy's now at BioWare): https://sites.google.com/site/stjones/xcomutil [google.com] Speaking of DLC...

Also http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/69341191/xenonauts/ [kickstarter.com] and http://ufoai.org/wiki/index.php/News [ufoai.org] (I've played the latter, it's excellent).

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