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Birth Control For Men Edges Closer

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the having-trouble-getting-past-the-last-sentence dept.

Medicine 407

ananyo writes "Developing oral contraceptives for men has not gone as swiftly as researchers imagined in the early 1970s; they suggested at the time that a 'male pill' was not far off. But researchers now report a new way to make male mice temporarily infertile. Although the treatment is not ready for human use, the method avoids some of the pitfalls of earlier attempts. The technique appears to have a much more specific action than previous methods: it impairs sperm production by blocking a protein called BRDT. This protein was singled out as a potential therapeutic target five years ago because it only occurs in the testes, where it is required for the division of sperm cells. If the approach proves safe in humans, it would be an improvement over hormone-based methods of male contraception, which are not completely effective and cause side effects such as mood swings, acne and a loss of libido (abstract). On the downside, however, the compound 'shrank the mice's testes.'"

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Nice tagline... (5, Funny)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 2 years ago | (#41043945)

"No major side effects; it'll only shrink your testicles!"

Re:Nice tagline... (5, Insightful)

Cryacin (657549) | more than 2 years ago | (#41043971)

I have yet to meet a woman that finds big balls a turn on. As a man, you need big balls in the metaphorical rather than literal sense. The *real* question is, does it make you infertile over time.

Re:Nice tagline... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044041)

So you'd take the pills that shrink your tested then (assuming you're male)?

Re:Nice tagline... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044061)

s/tested/testes

Re:Nice tagline... (2, Insightful)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044075)

I have yet to meet a woman that finds big balls a turn on

Now that I think about it neither have I met anyone like that. Large, dangly balls tend to be quite nasty, in fact; it's usually the dangly thing ABOVE the balls that matters, not the balls themselves. I've never understood why men believe large balls are somehow attractive.

Re:Nice tagline... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044131)

Are you qualified to comment, with your username?

Re:Nice tagline... (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044139)

I do still have female friends and relatives, mate :)

Re:Nice tagline... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044719)

Sorry, that still doesn't make you qualified. There's a large discrepancy between how your "friends and relatives" will tell you how they feel and how they actually DO feel. When a story related to breasts or vaginas comes up, feel free to comment.

Re:Nice tagline... (5, Funny)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044287)

it's usually the dangly thing ABOVE the balls that matters

This? [daily-newswire.com]

Re:Nice tagline... (5, Funny)

cffrost (885375) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044677)

it's usually the dangly thing ABOVE the balls that matters

This? [daily-newswire.com]

I hadn't realized that the need for male contraceptive was to prevent male pregnancy.

Re:Nice tagline... (3, Informative)

Whiteox (919863) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044325)

Large sacks are good as they allow the balls to swing and pound for the extra thrill.

Re:Nice tagline... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044151)

I have an extremely small sample size of women (5) and I can say at least 20% have admitted they like bigger balls on their men. It's representative of being manly I guess?

Re:Nice tagline... (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044283)

I have an extremely small sample size of women (5) and I can say at least 20% have admitted they like bigger balls on their men. It's representative of being manly I guess?

I never ever watch pornographic movies, ( >_> ) but I have it on fairly good authority that huge gargantuan dangly balls are not a regularly requested feature of the genre.

Re:Nice tagline... (5, Funny)

outsider007 (115534) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044459)

Exit polls are notoriously unreliable.

Relative size (4, Funny)

trout007 (975317) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044649)

By making your balls smaller it will make other things in that area appear larger.

Re:Nice tagline... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044335)

The page 5 of the original article PDF [cell.com] has a size comparison of disected specimens. The treated mice testes weight is roughly halved but the size is 2^(1/3) ~ >0.70 of the untreated ones.

There is a meassurement device called Prader orchidometer [rsna.org] that works by comparison with standarized orbs. It's very difficult to get an accurate size/volume in vivo without using ultrasounds and if even the orchidometer method is not precise much less expect that anybody could notice a significant difference just looking at them.

Certainly after some time not even yourself will notice at all. Definitely noticeable if meassured or compared side by side, but most probably irrelevant for a partner. The major issue may be the own psychological selfesteem burden that some insecure people could have of knowing that their testes shrank a bit, but far worse and by large would be that you got instead a vasectomy and later couldn't reverse it.

Always could do nothing and let all the responsability to your girlfriend/wife behaving like a macho(TM) or just ask for her opinion about it and decide together since also are "her nuts".

Re:Nice tagline... (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044407)

So do steroids but some guys take those all the time.

BRDT? (1)

Iskender (1040286) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044585)

I'm sure it works better than trying to block the DDRT protein.

But, why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41043951)

On the downside, however, the compound 'shrank the mice's testes

Without commercial potential, what is this going to be used for?

Re:But, why? (4, Funny)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044657)

On the downside, however, the compound 'shrank the mice's testes

Without commercial potential, what is this going to be used for?

This didn't stop FaceBook going public, did it?

As if.... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41043955)

As if there is a single man in the world would would take a contraceptive that shrank their testes....

I don't think this is close at all, more like a story of a drug with horrific side effects that thankfully they caught before human trials.

Re:As if.... (-1, Troll)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044077)

Why would that matter? If the object ABOVE the balls doesn't shrink then I see no problem.

Re:As if.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044361)

It should be seen as a positive that they shrink because now the object above will appear much bigger. I can understand where the GP is coming from though I feel they do not speak for all. It's a body image thing and some men will gain confidence from jamming a sock down their crotch. Then there are others where the bits down there are a massive negative body image problem, I'd rather have mine off and in a paperweight.

Re:As if.... (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044269)

As if there is a single man in the world would would take a contraceptive that shrank their testes....

I don't think this is close at all, more like a story of a drug with horrific side effects that thankfully they caught before human trials.

Compared to the horrific side effects of not using any birth control at all, I think a little testicular shrinkage is acceptable.

Re:As if.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044663)

Are you kidding?

I'd take this in a heartbeat. I'm sure that there's more than one or two... billion husbands out there who's wives are dead keen for a baby, but themselves - not so much. It brings control of children back to the man, and could even be taken covertly if you were really getting baby pressured.

Re:As if.... (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044673)

As if there is a single man in the world would would take a contraceptive that shrank their testes....

Well, if the research would find something that will increase the piece above the testes, I bet many would take it without thinking.

Is the testicle-shrinking reversible? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41043973)

I could imagine that much of a testicle's volume is composed of hydrated protein and whatnot. Perhaps the loss in volume vanishes when the drug is discontinued.

Re:Is the testicle-shrinking reversible? (2)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044479)

Perhaps the loss in volume vanishes when the drug is discontinued.

No, you grow a third testicle and people will nickname you ET (extra testicle).

Re:Is the testicle-shrinking reversible? (1)

CheshireDragon (1183095) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044745)

That joke is so old it could die any moment...

Mod this story as Redundant (4, Funny)

Zubinix (572981) | more than 2 years ago | (#41043995)

Its not like most slashdotters are getting any.

Re:Mod this story as Redundant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044153)

Umm, I thought using /. was the same thing as using birth control. It works for me!

Re:Mod this story as Redundant (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044217)

I'm worried about getting my fleshlight pregnant you insensitive clod!

Re:Mod this story as Redundant (1)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044457)

[adjusts pocket protector] Women go crazy for a sharp dressed man!

Re:Mod this story as Redundant (2)

outsider007 (115534) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044483)

My real doll wants to see other people. FML!

Eh... (0, Flamebait)

schitso (2541028) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044001)

Color me a skeptic, I guess, but I'm not too fond of the government's idea of "safe in humans".

Re:Eh... (2)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044511)

Quiet down and put your nuts in the TSA scanner!

There is a quick way (0)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044007)

But researchers now report a new way to make male mice temporarily infertile.

- it's called a swift kick in the balls. It works by blocking the ability to fuck for a little while.

Re:There is a quick way (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044019)

Oh, and to achieve the maximum result repeat as often as it takes.

Re:There is a quick way (0)

epyT-R (613989) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044097)

yes that's right.. and when she wont' shut up, lets just smack her across the face...as many times as necessary..

is the joke still funny now? or is your white knight I'm-sorry-for-being-a-man knee jerk reaction kicking in right now?

Re:There is a quick way (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044133)

I don't know what you are talking about, I wasn't listening.

Re:There is a quick way (1)

cffrost (885375) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044753)

yes that's right.. and when she wont' shut up, lets just smack her across the face...as many times as necessary..

is the joke still funny now? or is your white knight I'm-sorry-for-being-a-man knee jerk reaction kicking in right now?

We're talking about fucking, not "knee"-jerking.

Re:There is a quick way (2)

cffrost (885375) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044725)

But researchers now report a new way to make male mice temporarily infertile.

- it's called a swift kick in the balls. It works by blocking the ability to fuck for a little while.

I don't understand... I can't get off unless I get kicked in the nuts. Is there something wrong with me?

Beats paying child support! (0)

voodoo cheesecake (1071228) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044013)

Also known as ripping your testicles off through your wallet.

Re:Beats paying child support! (0, Flamebait)

epyT-R (613989) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044109)

or you know, we could actually hold women accountable for the implied responsibility that comes with 'my body, my right,' instead of pulling his wallet in, involuntarily. Of course, in this culture, it seems like we can't hold women accountable for anything sexually related without being labeled misogynists..

Re:Beats paying child support! (4, Insightful)

Cazekiel (1417893) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044143)

What is this, this putting his wallet in involuntarily? Are you talking about the woman getting pregnant and the man having to pay child support? Well... um, if the man in this hypothetical situation was raped for that there sperm, then sure--he shouldn't pay a red cent. If he wasn't, then he needs to re-enroll in his sixth grade health class to learn that when you stick your junk in a vagina, it may produce a pregnancy.

Seriously. This argument is so old and so tiresome. If you get a woman pregnant, that's your kid. You need to take care of your kid. Is that too hard a concept to grasp?

Re:Beats paying child support! (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044321)

You see, that's why male contraceptives are a big deal. Currently, the only way for a man to have sex and have any say in whether the woman gets pregnant is either irreversible with some significant probability or ineffective with some significant probability: You can get snipped or use a condom. That's it. Woman can use the pill, and since that's a relatively reliable contraceptive that also doesn't prevent the woman from getting pregnant later when she wants to, it's the most widely used method of birth control. It's however 100% in the control of the woman, who can therefore basically unilaterally decide to get pregnant. So yes, it does take two, but the realities are such that women can and do get pregnant to get a commitment out of men, even if it ends up being just financial commitment.

Re:Beats paying child support! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044581)

If a woman gets herself pregnant, that's her kid. She needs to take care of her kid. So we just need to ban abortion and adoption.

Of course, I understand that there is 0% chance you will listen to your own argument when it's applied to women. But that makes you a big fat misandric hypocrite.

slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044033)

is the best birth control pill for males.

Wishful thinking (3, Interesting)

Cazekiel (1417893) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044063)

I get this strange, uncanny feeling that it won't catch on. From my own experience and opinion, men get squicked-out when it comes to changing one of their body functions. Women are "meh, okay," when it comes to oral contraceptives (in SOME cases--me, it didn't work out at all) simply because they have to put up with major, stupid-ridiculous body issues over their entire lives (menstrual cycles, D-cups, pregnancy, menopause--just to name a few) while a man's changes are more subtle, quicker, and easily controllable (facial hair, voice changes, etc.). It'd be nice to, as Samwise says, 'Share the load,' (har har) but it'd take some time and re-thinking of roles.

Re:Wishful thinking (1)

jamesh (87723) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044073)

I get this strange, uncanny feeling that it won't catch on. From my own experience and opinion, men get squicked-out when it comes to changing one of their body functions. Women are "meh, okay," when it comes to oral contraceptives (in SOME cases--me, it didn't work out at all) simply because they have to put up with major, stupid-ridiculous body issues over their entire lives (menstrual cycles, D-cups, pregnancy, menopause--just to name a few) while a man's changes are more subtle, quicker, and easily controllable (facial hair, voice changes, etc.). It'd be nice to, as Samwise says, 'Share the load,' (har har) but it'd take some time and re-thinking of roles.

Hell yes. Having a vasectomy was a bit of a mental hurdle to get over, although the difference there is it's permanent. Having had the vasectomy I'd still consider taking this if the smaller testes thing was a guarantee (and they didn't keep shrinking below the desired size), and they didn't result in any changes to sex drive.

Re:Wishful thinking (2)

Cazekiel (1417893) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044123)

I thought they could do a reversal for those who changed their minds? Either way, I think more and more men are evolving past their insecurities with body issues and it MAY catch on. Hoping so, anyway. Having more and more options on the table involving both sexes in preventing pregnancy, especially if either the man or woman can't DO oral contraceptives (as it was for me, previously stated) is a must, imho.

Re:Wishful thinking (2)

Captain Hook (923766) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044235)

I thought they could do a reversal for those who changed their minds?

Tthey can attempt to reverse the procedure but it's around 80% successful for getting viable sperm in the ejaculate and about 75% percent successful for get a pregancy after reversal.

Re:Wishful thinking (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044107)

Actually, the problem is that it will reduce the need for condoms. Getting some deadly STD is a lot more life changing then an unplanned pregnancy. Especially in today's society when single parents are quite common.

Re:Wishful thinking (2)

Cazekiel (1417893) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044159)

Perhaps, but for a married couple who don't want any more kids, or ANY kids altogether, it can be beneficial to their love lives if one or both uses oral contraceptives. And really, MOST women (though not all, unfortunately) understand that birth control pills don't prevent STDs, but we take it anyway AND condom use is encouraged.

Re:Wishful thinking (2)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044113)

I was thinking the same thing. There's no way that the side effect they list at the end of the article isn't going to trigger all kinds of castration anxiety, even if it's perfectly safe and reversible.

Re:Wishful thinking (1)

Alomex (148003) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044535)

You forget that once you've been married for a few years you get used to feeling emasculated 24x7, which is why so many married men consent to readily consent to getting a minivans and a vasectomy..

I can totally see a married man taking those pills.

Re:Wishful thinking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044115)

"stupid-ridiculous body issues over their entire lives ("...D-cups,") "

Oh really? So D cups are "stupid-ridiculous body issues"?

Don't tell me, you're a breast reduction shill, carefully inserting your "big breasts are an 'illness'" bullshit into every topic of conversation.

Next it will be the 'lower back pain' myth, blah blah blah.

Tens of thousands of women have their once beautiful breasts BUTCHERED every year by hate-filled, jealous psychopaths, called 'surgeons', because of idiots like you.

Re:Wishful thinking (2)

Cazekiel (1417893) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044173)

I have DOUBLE-Ds, honey. E-cups when I was pregnant.

Re:Wishful thinking (1)

Cazekiel (1417893) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044181)

And may I add: by "stupid-ridiculous body issues" I meant an upheaval of your body's system. Getting boobs is a Big Deal. Try being a sixth grade girl with D-cups then get back to me.

Re:Wishful thinking (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044723)

And may I add: by "stupid-ridiculous body issues" I meant an upheaval of your body's system. Getting boobs is a Big Deal. Try being a sixth grade girl with D-cups then get back to me.

Try being a man in a job interview and having to rely solely on merit and get back to me. Try being a man and getting out of a traffic ticket and get back to me. Try being a man and actually having to take some risk and do some work just to have a relationship, let alone a good one.

Your one-time discomfort pays dividends way into the future.

Re:Wishful thinking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044259)

I'm not sure why you would hand-wave the face, body and head hair changes, the voice and adam's apple, the erectile dysfunction... For a great many men, and me personally, most especially, these things are the cause of an extreme amount of discomfort and anxiety.

Perhaps we don't actually give birth, but aside from that, the physical frustrations of our sexes are at least equal, any day.

Re:Wishful thinking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044523)

This drug seems that won't affect the testosterone production so none of your fears is justified.

In any case to ease your anxiety you should know that with a total testosterone suppresion, face, body and head hair changes will be verrry slow and can take years or decades. The voice and adam's apple won't change AT ALL unless you lack testosterone before puberty. The lack of testosterone does not cause erectile dysfunction, but only of spontaneous erections and definitely causes the almost total suppresion of semen production.

Re:Wishful thinking (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044405)

I don't disagree with you, and I will personally be a, er, late adopter of this sort of thing, but in terms of "squickiness" I can think of two examples:

* Vasectomy: I personally still cringe when I even hear about it, but men have been doing it for many years now. When one considers that they were not always reversible - and that even today there is no absolute guarantee that they are, and that even when they are fertility is more often then not reduced - it also says something somewhat "surprising" in terms of relationship commitment.

* AAS: there is a whole "subculture" - for lack of a better word - of men that mess with their bodies, doing multiple cycles of anabolic steroids. The side-effects include (but are not limited to), shrinking testes, mood swings, loss of hair, gynecomastica (due to the estradiol), the possibility of coronary problems, etc. The number of people that do this is higher than most people think and is *far* from limited to hardcore iron pumpers.

In any event, and even assuming that a male oral contraceptive works flawlessly, the "sharing of the load" will always be asymmetric: it will be, of course, the women that will end up pregnant, which makes this sort of oral contraceptive useful for men that are concerned about getting caught in an unilateral decision by women, or those in a stable relationship as an alternative to a vasectomy.

Putting it another way: were I a woman I would not outsource the responsibility of something that will ultimately affect my body so easily, even because it's easier to forget about something when the main immediate implication rests upon others.

Re:Wishful thinking (2)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044733)

I really just don't get why. My wife had a contraceptive implant. One needle in the arm, bam, protected for 3 years. Because it introduces the drug into the bloodstream in a slow continuous way, rather than in one big hit each day with the tablets, side-effects are generally much milder. When we wanted to have kids, we took it out - just one needle. When we want to permanently not have any more kids, I'll have a vasectomy.

I mean, I understand some women have reactions to the pill, even in the implant-form. But there's already such a wide variety of contraceptive methods, for both men and women, that you're sure to find one you can deal with. Why such effort to produce an oral one for men? At the very least, you can know if a man's wearing a condom. Who knows if he's actually taken the drug, even if he says he has?

Growing a beard on a penis head? possible? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044087)

Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care - Government & Stealth Malware

In Response To Slashdot Article: Former Pentagon Analyst: China Has Backdoors To 80% of Telecoms 87

How many rootkits does the US[2] use officially or unofficially?

How much of the free but proprietary software in the US spies on you?

Which software would that be?

Visit any of the top freeware sites in the US, count the number of thousands or millions of downloads of free but proprietary software, much of it works, again on a proprietary Operating System, with files stored or in transit.

How many free but proprietary programs have you downloaded and scanned entire hard drives, flash drives, and other media? Do you realize you are giving these types of proprietary programs complete access to all of your computer's files on the basis of faith alone?

If you are an atheist, the comparison is that you believe in code you cannot see to detect and contain malware on the basis of faith! So you do believe in something invisible to you, don't you?

I'm now going to touch on a subject most anti-malware, commercial or free, developers will DELETE on most of their forums or mailing lists:

APT malware infecting and remaining in BIOS, on PCI and AGP devices, in firmware, your router (many routers are forced to place backdoors in their firmware for their government) your NIC, and many other devices.

Where are the commercial or free anti-malware organizations and individual's products which hash and compare in the cloud and scan for malware for these vectors? If you post on mailing lists or forums of most anti-malware organizations about this threat, one of the following actions will apply: your post will be deleted and/or moved to a hard to find or 'deleted/junk posts' forum section, someone or a team of individuals will mock you in various forms 'tin foil hat', 'conspiracy nut', and my favorite, 'where is the proof of these infections?' One only needs to search Google for these threats and they will open your malware world view to a much larger arena of malware on devices not scanned/supported by the scanners from these freeware sites. This point assumed you're using the proprietary Microsoft Windows OS. Now, let's move on to Linux.

The rootkit scanners for Linux are few and poor. If you're lucky, you'll know how to use chkrootkit (but you can use strings and other tools for analysis) and show the strings of binaries on your installation, but the results are dependent on your capability of deciphering the output and performing further analysis with various tools or in an environment such as Remnux Linux. None of these free scanners scan the earlier mentioned areas of your PC, either! Nor do they detect many of the hundreds of trojans and rootkits easily available on popular websites and the dark/deep web.

Compromised defenders of Linux will look down their nose at you (unless they are into reverse engineering malware/bad binaries, Google for this and Linux and begin a valuable education!) and respond with a similar tone, if they don't call you a noob or point to verifying/downloading packages in a signed repo/original/secure source or checking hashes, they will jump to conspiracy type labels, ignore you, lock and/or shuffle the thread, or otherwise lead you astray from learning how to examine bad binaries. The world of Linux is funny in this way, and I've been a part of it for many years. The majority of Linux users, like the Windows users, will go out of their way to lead you and say anything other than pointing you to information readily available on detailed binary file analysis.

Don't let them get you down, the information is plenty and out there, some from some well known publishers of Linux/Unix books. Search, learn, and share the information on detecting and picking through bad binaries. But this still will not touch the void of the APT malware described above which will survive any wipe of r/w media. I'm convinced, on both *nix and Windows, these pieces of APT malware are government in origin. Maybe not from the US, but most of the 'curious' malware I've come across in poisoned binaries, were written by someone with a good knowledge in English, some, I found, functioned similar to the now well known Flame malware. From my experience, either many forum/mailing list mods and malware developers/defenders are 'on the take', compromised themselves, and/or working for a government entity.

Search enough, and you'll arrive at some lone individuals who cry out their system is compromised and nothing in their attempts can shake it of some 'strange infection'. These posts receive the same behavior as I said above, but often they are lone posts which receive no answer at all, AT ALL! While other posts are quickly and kindly replied to and the 'strange infection' posts are left to age and end up in a lost pile of old threads.

If you're persistent, the usual challenge is to, "prove it or STFU" and if the thread is not attacked or locked/shuffled and you're lucky to reference some actual data, they will usually attack or ridicule you and further drive the discussion away from actual proof of APT infections.

The market is ripe for an ambitious company or individual to begin demanding companies and organizations who release firmware and design hardware to release signed and hashed packages and pour this information into the cloud, so everyone's BIOS is checked, all firmware on routers, NICs, and other devices are checked, and malware identified and knowledge reported and shared openly.

But even this will do nothing to stop backdoored firmware (often on commercial routers and other networked devices of real importance for government use - which again opens the possibility of hackers discovering these backdoors) people continue to use instead of refusing to buy hardware with proprietary firmware/software.

Many people will say, "the only safe computer is the one disconnected from any network, wireless, wired, LAN, internet, intranet" but I have seen and you can search yourself for and read about satellite, RF, temperature, TEMPEST (is it illegal in your part of the world to SHIELD your system against some of these APT attacks, especially TEMPEST? And no, it's not simply a CRT issue), power line and many other attacks which can and do strike computers which have no active network connection, some which have never had any network connection. Some individuals have complained they receive APT attacks throughout their disconnected systems and they are ridiculed and labeled as a nutter. The information exists, some people have gone so far as to scream from the rooftops online about it, but they are nutters who must have some serious problems and this technology with our systems could not be possible.

I believe most modern computer hardware is more powerful than many of us imagine, and a lot of these systems swept from above via satellite and other attacks. Some exploits take advantage of packet radio and some of your proprietary hardware. Some exploits piggyback and unless you really know what you're doing, and even then... you won't notice it.

Back to the Windows users, a lot of them will dismiss any strange activity to, "that's just Windows!" and ignore it or format again and again only to see the same APT infected activity continue. Using older versions of sysinternals, I've observed very bizarre behavior on a few non networked systems, a mysterious chat program running which doesn't exist on the system, all communication methods monitored (bluetooth, your hard/software modems, and more), disk mirroring software running[1], scans running on different but specific file types, command line versions of popular Windows freeware installed on the system rather than the use of the graphical component, and more.

[1] In one anonymous post on pastebin, claiming to be from an intel org, it blasted the group Anonymous, with a bunch of threats and information, including that their systems are all mirrored in some remote location anyway.

[2] Or other government, US used in this case due to the article source and speculation vs. China. This is not to defend China, which is one messed up hell hole on several levels and we all need to push for human rights and freedom for China's people. For other, freer countries, however, the concentration camps exist but you wouldn't notice them, they originate from media, mostly your TV, and you don't even know it. As George Carlin railed about "Our Owners", "nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care".

[3] http://www.stallman.org/ [stallman.org]

Try this yourself on a wide variety of internet forums and mailing lists, push for malware scanners to scan more than files, but firmware/BIOS. See what happens, I can guarantee it won't be pleasant, especially with APT cases.

So scan away, or blissfully ignore it, but we need more people like RMS[3] in the world. Such individuals tend to be eccentric but their words ring true and clear about electronics and freedom.

I believe we're mostly pwned, whether we would like to admit it or not, blind and pwned, yet fiercely holding to misinformation, often due to lack of self discovery and education, and "nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care".

##

Schneier has covered it before: power line fluctuations (differences on the wire in keys pressed).

There's thermal attacks against cpus and temp, also:

ENF (google it)

A treat (ENF Collector in Java):

sourceforge dot net fwdslash projects fwdslash nfienfcollector

No single antimalware scanner exists which offers the ability to scan (mostly proprietary) firmware on AGP/PCI devices (sound cards, graphics cards, usb novelty devices excluding thumb drives), BIOS/CMOS.

If you boot into ultimate boot cd you can use an archane text interface to dump BIOS/CMOS and examine/checksum.

The real attacks which survive disk formats and wipes target your PCI devices and any firmware which may be altered/overwritten with something special. It is not enough to scan your hard drive(s) and thumb drives, the real dangers with teeth infect your hardware devices.

When is the last time you:

Audited your sound card for malware?
Audited your graphics card for malware?
Audited your network card for malware?

Google for:

* AGP and PCI rootkit(s)
* Network card rootkit(s)
* BIOS/CMOS rootkit(s)

Our modern PC hardware is capable of much more than many can imagine.

Do you:

* Know your router's firmware may easily be replaced on a hacker's whim?
* Shield all cables against leakage and attacks
* Still use an old CRT monitor and beg for TEMPEST attacks?
* Use TEMPEST resistant fonts in all of your applications including your OS?
* Know whether or not your wired keyboard has keypresses encrypted as they pass to your PC from the keyboard?
* Use your PC on the grid and expose yourself to possible keypress attacks?
* Know your network card is VERY exploitable when plugged into the net and attacked by a hard core blackhat or any vicious geek with the know how?
* Search out informative papers on these subjects and educate your friends and family about these attacks?
* Contact antimalware companies and urge them to protect against many or all these attacks?

Do you trust your neighbors? Are they all really stupid when it comes to computing or is there a geek or two without a conscience looking to exploit these areas?

The overlooked threat are the potential civilian rogues stationed around you, especially in large apartment blocks who feed on unsecured wifi to do their dirty work.

With the recent news of Russian spies, whether or not this news was real or a psyop, educate yourself on the present threats which all antimalware scanners fail to protect against and remove any smug mask you may wear, be it Linux or OpenBSD, or the proprietary Windows and Mac OS you feel are properly secured and not vulnerable to any outside attacks because you either don't need an antivirus scanner (all are inept to serious attacks) or use one or several (many being proprietary mystery machines sending data to and from your machine for many reasons, one is to share your information with a group or set database to help aid in threats), the threats often come in mysterious ways.

Maybe the ancients had it right: stone tablets and their own unique language(s) rooted in symbolism.

#

I'm more concerned about new rootkits which target PCI devices, such as the graphics card and the optical drives, also, BIOS. Where are the malware scanners which scan PCI devices and BIOS for mismatches? All firmware, BIOS and on PCI devices should be checksummed and saved to match with others in the cloud, and archived when the computer is first used, backing up signed firmware.

When do you recall seeing signed router firmware upgrades with any type of checksum to check against? Same for PCI devices and optical drives and BIOS.

Some have begun with BIOS security:

http://www.biosbits.org/ [biosbits.org]

Some BIOS has write protection in its configuration, a lot of newer computers don't.

#

"Disconnect your PC from the internet and don't add anything you didn't create yourself. It worked for the NOC list machine in Mission Impossible"

The room/structure was likely heavily shielded, whereas most civvies don't shield their house and computer rooms. There is more than meets the eye to modern hardware.

Google:

subversion hack:
tagmeme(dot)com/subhack/

network card rootkits and trojans
pci rootkits
packet radio
xmit "fm fingerprinting" software
"specific emitter identification"
forums(dot)qrz(dot)com

how many malware scanners scan bios/cmos and pci/agp cards for malware? zero, even the rootkit scanners. have you checksummed/dumped your bios/cmos and firmware for all your pci/agp devices and usb devices, esp vanity usb devices in and outside the realm of common usb devices (thumbdrives, external hdds, printers),

Unless your computer room is shielded properly, the computers may still be attacked and used, I've personally inspected computers with no network connection running mysterious code in the background which task manager for windows and the eqiv for *nix does not find, and this didn't find it all.

Inspect your windows boot partition in *nix with hexdump and look for proxy packages mentioned along with command line burning programs and other oddities. Computers are more vulnerable than most would expect.

You can bet all of the malware scanners today, unless they are developed by some lone indy coder in a remote country, employ whitelisting of certain malware and none of them scan HARDWARE devices apart from the common usb devices.

Your network cards, sound cards, cd/dvd drives, graphics cards, all are capable of carrying malware to survive disk formatting/wiping.

Boot from a Linux live cd and use hexdump to examine your windows (and *nix) boot sectors to potentially discover interesting modifications by an unknown party.

#
eof

turkey headed penis for president!

So what happened to katnal1 male pill? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044089)

In Other news... (1)

lordfoul (108260) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044111)

In other news it turns out that Men can not actually give birth.

Re:In Other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044629)

Sure they can't - but men currently have no reproductive rights whatsoever.
This would (finally) give men reproductive rights.
Just think about it: the time of "oops.. I forgot the pill so now you'll just have to give up your dreams and ambitions to function as my personal atm for the next 18-23 years" might be at an end !
This will change the world.

With no mention.... (1, Funny)

meglon (1001833) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044127)

.... of hammers or knives anywhere. (that hurt to write, yes)

Always close, never quite there. (2, Interesting)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044147)

I researched the availability of male birth control after the first time I ended up in the bedroom with a woman who was all "Oh you don't want kids, that's okay, I'm on the pill. No need to use a condom. NO. NO CONDOM! OKAY THEN, BUT USE THIS CONDOM, NOT YOURS! YOURS IS TOO UNBROKEN!"

Sounds silly, right? Apparently it's not that rare, and the older I get (or rather the older the girls I date get), the more common it gets.

So, I had to choose between exclusively dating girls half my age, find a way to put birth control under MY control since I don't want to procreate, or well, just live with it. A lot of guys choose the latter, which I suppose is why a lot of guys become fathers once their luck runs out. I'm not that kind of stupid.

So I just went with the other two options. Girls half my age are usually quite happy when they hear I've had a vasectomy, while a lot of older girls suddenly remember they need to wash their hair this saturday. Sunday. Every day. Every possible day I could ever meet them on, ever. They will have the cleanest hair ever, but they're not risking having sex with an infertile guy. Even though they supposedly are okay with that I don't want kids.

And women are surprised that we're confused by their behaviours...

Anyway I probably would have gone with the vasectomy anyway, but it would have been awesome to have a pill for when I was too young to legally do so. (25 here in Sweden.) So I really do hope that this thing takes off... This time. In difference of all the other ones, that have been in development for decades, and even undergoing human trials.

On the flip side that whole shrinking testes thing is a bit of a marketing problem if it persists in guys. Not for me per se, but generally guys seem to put a lot of stock in their nuts. I mean it's even made the language: "You've got balls." Having smaller balls makes you less of a man. No logic about that either... So most guys wouldn't buy this pill, even if it did work.

And men are surprised that women are confused by their behaviours...

Re:Always close, never quite there. (1, Insightful)

Mindcontrolled (1388007) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044191)

Gotta wonder how much of an asshole you are in person so that you only find girls like that who would endure staying in a room with you. Oh wait, you are just a misogynist idiot and your stories are mostly anally extracted...

Re:Always close, never quite there. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044209)

Well, although his story is almost certainly embellished, in my opinion you can't take on trust a woman's use of birth control - and as it's so much better without a condom, a male pill would be very useful indeed.

Re:Always close, never quite there. (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044241)

Only find that type? I think you are overlooking the obvious here. When I find one that isn't, I keep her. Hence why I've spent about three quarters of my adult life in long term (2+ years) relationships. When I find a woman who genuinly didn't want to have kids, and who matched me well in most other ways, I even married her. Five years later, and we got divorced... She wanted more big city life, I prefer the countryside. These things happen. Now I'm dating again, and oh look... Girls my age (30+) either have kids or are pretty desperate... with a few exceptions. So far I haven't found one that matches me in any other ways.

So if you want to find out how much of an asshole I am in person, you're welcome to come over so I can laugh at your face. And bring your Agricola, it is better as toilet paper than it is as a book anyway.

Re:Always close, never quite there. (1)

Mindcontrolled (1388007) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044341)

Not my experience, to be honest. I am in the mid thirties myself. You may have been unlucky. I uphold the accusation of assholery on your opinion regarding Tacitus, though ;)

Re:Always close, never quite there. (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044393)

Well, of course our experience would differ - we are very different people clearly, with very different search criteria. Let's say you look for girls of type U. Since girls of type T and V are similar, you'll dismiss all other girls, but you'll end up having to look closer at girls in the group TUV in order to find the ones that match best - the Us. Meanwhile I look for girls of type maybe I'm looking for type V, but since type U and W have similar characteristics, I dismiss all other girls and end up looking closer at girls in the group UVW. And thus there are girls I look at that you never meet, and girls you look at that I never meet. Because we dismiss them offhand due to other more immediate reasons.

Of course more likely you look for girls in the group ABC and I look in the group XYZ, but that's largely another story. Even in my subset these women are not the majority, but since they WILL lie and deceive to get their goals, they are over-represented in the girls that get past the first checks and balances.

So getting a vasectomy for me was a simple choice and an easy solution. I don't want to procreate, and telling girls that up front had no result. But telling them up front that I've had a vasectomy and CAN NOT procreate, well that is a new check that weeds out any of these crazies quickly, efficiently, and decisively.

And you can call me an ass-hole all you want, I still say Tacitus is overrated. :P

Re:Always close, never quite there. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044661)

So having a desire to have reproductive rights as men is met with accusations of being a misogynist idiot with stories that have been "anally extracted" ?

Jeez .. perhaps you should get a shrink to examine your condition - I believe it might be serious.

Re:Always close, never quite there. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044751)

Don't assume that just because they're half your age they won't try this shit. My ex-girlfriend who was supposedly infertile, but WAS on BC decided to drop off it without telling me a year and a half into our relationship. Then when her menstrual cycled missed (due not to being pregnant, but rather due to hormonal imbalance that was the reason for her potential infertility) she paniced, made a big deal out of it, and told all her family, BEFORE we went to the Doctor's to get a pregnancy test done.

Long story short, it turned out she wasn't, she demanded MORE commitment out of me (despite my ass not dumping her then and there.) and eventually led to me breaking up with her in a rather drama free way (much less drama free over the coming months as she'd call me up to bum rides or visit, then send me hateful letters/voicemails after blaming me for a whole variety of things.)

Long story short this would be my second choice behind 'just not having sex' to avoid another drama situation like that again. And that was a mid twenties girl with an early thirties guy.

And judging by the women around here with multiple children by their early 20s I think your attitude is dangerously optimistic.

Any ladies who'd like to vouch for this in regards to friends or just gossip would be much appreciated.

YMMV, IANAG, IANAWP.

Small testes (2)

Orphis (1356561) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044201)

A good way for women then to check if men are using the pill or just don't care!

Re: (5, Funny)

TheInsani7y (2711037) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044203)

Meh. Smaller potatoes make the steak look bigger.

Re: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044357)

or sausage depending on your particular morphology...

Being married and thus not having sex (3, Interesting)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044237)

Makes the whole thing a bit redundant.

This will change everything. (4, Insightful)

diakka (2281) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044251)

It's estimated that 1/2 of all pregnancies in the US are unplanned. Really, every child should be wanted by both parents. Willing parents are the best parents. If this world only had children that were wanted, the quality of child rearing that each child gets is going to be far better. Population explosion could possibly come under control as well.

Re:This will change everything. (4, Insightful)

markdavis (642305) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044587)

+1 on your post. It is just as important for men to have control over reproduction- modern society demands they are 50% liable for children (with which I do agree).

I would only add that there should also be no financial rewards to women having children, making sure it is the CHILDREN that are wanted, not the money from the government (yes, this is a big problem with certain socioeconomic populations).

Re:This will change everything. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044609)

unplanned does not mean unwanted but you are in big part right.

I have the perfect drug for male contraception (5, Funny)

Tastecicles (1153671) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044281)

it's called try being married for twelve years.

There's an option that's much closer to approval (4, Informative)

guises (2423402) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044303)

Have a look at RISUG:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_inhibition_of_sperm_under_guidance [wikipedia.org]

Development is much further along than this drug, RISUG could be available within the next five-ten years. It's available right now if you're in India and willing to be a guinea pig. No testicle shrinkage, though the Wikipedia article say there might be other drawbacks. The article says that there's no evidence for adverse effects though... which makes me wonder why it brings that up at all.

We already have a usable male contraceptive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044329)

Its called testosterone.

It can be used as oral, patch or probably best a some injection. The studies noted a number of side effects that apparently have to be over come before it can be approved:

1. Increased libedo
2. increase in lean mussle mass
3. increased focus and drive
4. improved self image/confidence

The amounts we are talk or far from bodybuilding abuse amounts, but understably the side effects are too extreme. More likely the idea that men would say they don't want children and then do something about it in advance of the inception even might change society in as great a way as contraception has for women.

Re:We already have a usable male contraceptive (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044443)

The testosterone undecanoate that is the longest acting testosterone esther commercially produced is not good enough to effectively supress endogenous serum LH and FSH production in a significat amount of people. And you must get a whooping 4ml deep intramuscular shot every 10-12 weeks.

A somewhat longer acting esther with a better pharmacokinetic profile is the testosterone buciclate but so far seems that the WHO couldn't find any commecial partners to keep developing and testing it. In any case with these steroid treatments the sperm production falls from 20M/ml to ~ 0.2M/ml IIRC for most males.

Re:We already have a usable male contraceptive (1)

trout007 (975317) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044737)

I get monthly allergy shots that total 1.8ml. Can I add this to the mix?

Not my problem. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044333)

Responsibility. if it's gonna be YOUR problem. it's YOUR responsibility.

Abortion - a womens decision. not mine.
Child support - women win. i don't.
Divorce laws - Half your shit! FUCK!
False rape charges - Haha my life is over. Damm bitch.
Every guy is a pedo - Damm just can't win bein a guy.

Fuck you women. You got all the power. yet keep sayin you want 'equality'.
Well piss off. I'm keepin this one.

Birth control is your problem. I gave you a fake name and phone number.
Why? Because fuck you that's why.

STDs? (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044421)

Is is really a good thing to give people more options to only block pregnancy instead of pregnancy and STDs?
Blocking pregnancy is really not good enough for any contraceptive. When/if this came out I predict a significant increase in STDs.

Also we men really do not have the best track record for honesty related to sex. And "I am on the pill" is a statement that cannot be verified.

Re:STDs? (0)

markdavis (642305) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044611)

Women trick men into having children without men's consent ALL THE TIME, throughout history.

I think there is a smaller risk of men trying to trick or just lie to women about being "on the pill." There are two main motivations for women to lie about being on the pill- to try to get pregnant without permission, or to avoid the use of condoms because either she doesn't like them or she knows/believes he doesn't. For men, usually only the latter would apply.

As far as having more options that do not address STD's- yes, it is a good idea. More options are ALWAYS better. There probably aren't going to BE any more options that can block STD's AND pregnancy- only condoms (or abstinence).

MCFLY? HELLOO??? MEN DONT NEED BIRTH CONTROL! (1, Interesting)

geohump (782273) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044431)

Wonderful idea.
Won't catch on

Too many men identify themselves as men through their ability to father children.

Re:MCFLY? HELLOO??? MEN DONT NEED BIRTH CONTROL! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044529)

Complete bs. Men hate having to use a condom. Men hate having to pay child support for a child they never wanted. Men love the idea of being able to have sex without worrying about that stuff.

Still need a helmet . . . (1)

indytx (825419) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044507)

Because, as the news keeps reminding us, it's a scary world out there. Drug-Resistent Gonorrha [wired.com] If you need me, I'll be in my parents' basement.

but I like sperm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044543)

I don't want this drug for the same reason I don't want a vasectomy. I love the feel of the sperm leaving my body.

Don't go telling me spermless liquid will feel the same. I don't believe you.

I'll stick with condoms and "Hey, it's your body, I can't tell you whether to have an abortion. But be aware that I wont pay a single penny towards a child that doesn't live in my house."

So when do we see (1)

sd4f (1891894) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044597)

the new pill in spam emails?

Fuck Women (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41044655)

Bunch of gold-diggin' pieces of shit. This is awesome because it will take some of the power away.

"Yeah I'm on the pill! Fuck me! Fuck me like a dog because I'm a worthless piece of shit with no sense of self-worth! Fuck me hard! Fuck me like Daddy used to!"

"Oh, you remember when I said I was on the pill? Well, I lied. I'll take $1500/mo in child support from you now. Oh, and by the way, I'm going to make sure you can never see them. Thanks for the paycheck, asshole!"

My balls are too big anyway (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044691)

I hope they hang lower when they shrink due to less static acceleration of the ball bag.

Troll Alert: What will lazy women do for $$$? (1)

trout007 (975317) | more than 2 years ago | (#41044713)

Right now one big social problem is unwanted kids, public welfare, and family courts. The problem is there are lots if incentives for poor single women to get pregnant. They get better preferential treatment for things like housing, WIC, college, ect. If there was a male pill or reversible chemical vasecomy the change in social dynamics would change as severely as when the pill for women came out.

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