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ESR's Sex Tips For Geeks

jamie posted more than 13 years ago | from the soap-huh dept.

Hardware 197

An Anonymous Coward writes: "According to Eric S. Raymond in this article, 'hackers don't have to be helpless chum in the dating-game shark pool. We have some advantages; with a little understanding of human ethology we can learn how to use them effectively.'" Anyone who says brains aren't sexy doesn't get turned on by a liter of gray tissue.

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Re:I'm sure this guy gets all the babes... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#323301)

You're not looking at him through the eyes of a woman [] .

Some tips (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#323302)

(a) women do like long hair (provided it is well groomed, not greasy nor full of split ends). My husband used to have long curly hair, and would often be approached by girls in nightclubs stroking his hair!

(b) having more self confidence makes you instantly more attractive to girls. When my former boyfriend started going out with me, suddenly he found girls flirting with him rather than ignoring him as had previously been the case. Why? Because it was obvious that he wasn't interested - a challenge! So act like you've got a girlfriend (body language - posture, no staring at chests, etc., and bingo!)


Uh? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#323303)

April Fools? Geeks getting girls? Do u see a connection here?

field experience (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#323304)

I brought this girl home once (that wasn't the only time :-) and had a great time. A great time 'till next morning that is:
Girl: Can I check my email?
Girl:Ummm, I think your computer is broken. It says something about a Zoot. It wants me to "Login" to "Braveheart".
Me: Shit. Hold on a sec, let me add a user.
One minute later
Girl:What is this? This isn't one of those "free" operating systems is it?
Me: *grin from ear to ear* Why yes it is. Linux actually, my favorite...
Girl: What? Can't you afford Windows?
Me: Well. Yes, but...well, I mean....
five minutes later
Girl: Where the hell is the Start button?
Me: You see that picture of Jessica Alba in the lower right hand corner?

Re:pupils, shrink... from this advice. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#323305)

He: Oh, I see your pupils are contracting. I'll go away now.

She: No, I just took a couple of Percocets. They always make my pupils pin out. Wanna fuck?

Rohypnol: Better Loving Through Chemistry

Hmm.. (5)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#323306)

This article has been here for several minutes now, and still only about 10 comments.

Could it be that the average slashdotter is actually *reading* the article for once? :-)

Re:Sexism (5)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#323307)

When will people stop putting up with these stone age attitudes, and start demanding that women be treated as if they were actual human beings?

I don't know, when will women stop having sex with men who have stone age attitudes, and start having sex with men who treat them as human beings?

Hmm.. (1)

Nachtfalke (160) | more than 13 years ago | (#323308)

Did anyone else go to a scary visual place, too ?

Re:Getting laid? (1)

kju (327) | more than 13 years ago | (#323309)

> Now if you are a nice person any girl that

> really gets to know you and has had some

> experience with a*holes should be a target.

> Unfortunatly not all girls have that experience.

Sorry, but what kind of asshole are you? I hope that _no_ girl has to made experience with assholes just for my own success with her.

So: _Fortunately_ not all girls have (to make) that experience.

Re:pupils, shrink... from this advice. (1)

imroy (755) | more than 13 years ago | (#323310)

No, I understand this a real reaction. For an interesting application of this, read Larry Nivens A gift from Earth.

In A gift from Earth, the main character has the subconcious ability to make people become uninterested in him by making their pupils contract. It happened whenever he was scared, so he ended up as a twenty-something virgin (just to bring this back on topic!). i.e he would chicken out at the last minute and the girl would take an interest in *anything* but him.

Anyway, by the end of the book he not only learns how to control this ability (kinda), but how to do the reverse. i.e make a person fixate on him by dilating their pupils. But he's already gotten laid by that point :)

Re:argh (2)

acb (2797) | more than 13 years ago | (#323313)

It wasn't too frightening for
Doctress Neutopia [] . For a short while, RMS was a shoo-in for the post of Gaia Messiah. It didn't work out, she complained about the disgustingly filthy state of his keyboard and started comparing him to Bill Gates.

New Poll? Geeks and Polyamory/Polygamy (2)

Grue (3391) | more than 13 years ago | (#323314)

So here's a question I've been wondering about for a while. How many geeks consider themselves to be in polyamorous/polygamous relationships? I definitely see a higher percentage in the wiccan community, and I think I see it in the geek culture too.

I'm not advocating polygamous relationships, and I'm not criticizing them either. I'd just like to see what fellow geeks think.


I'm surprised... (1)

Jonathan (5011) | more than 13 years ago | (#323317)

that ESR didn't bring up his favorite subject, guns, in this context. Unlike most geeks ESR has the advantage in that he isn't the mild-mannered inoffensive sort of guy that women mock -- he's a mild mannered sort of guy who has enough firepower to take down most SWAT teams.

Re:I'm surprised... (2)

Jonathan (5011) | more than 13 years ago | (#323318)

Actually, I skimmed his whole article, but missed that line. It is hard to lampoon geek leaders like ESR or RMS because they are pretty good at sounding like parodies of themselves most of the time.

Re:I'm surprised... (2)

paul.dunne (5922) | more than 13 years ago | (#323319)

Didn't bring up guns, eh? Well, maybe that's because... hell, do it for yourself:

sed -e s/[gG]un/Penis/g \
-e s/[bB]ear/Dangle/g \
-e s/[aA]rms/Phalluses/g \
-e s/[tT]rigger/Glans/g \

And then go read the original source [] : plenty more where that came from.

Re:I'm surprised... (1)

Lazy Jones (8403) | more than 13 years ago | (#323321)

Oh, but he did... Read the whole article! ;-) (the bit about dating)

there are brainy women out there... (1)

Lazy Jones (8403) | more than 13 years ago | (#323322)

... but with the common stereotype of attractive women on TV (interests: looking good, getting laid by manly guys), those of them who do have brains, often try to hide the fact.

[Unless they're so ugly that they can't get any attention otherwise. :-)]

Seriously, many intelligent women do not try to impress with their physical beauty, even if they could.

Oh, and I'm sure that 7of9 only gets so much attention because of her cleavage.

Hardware? (2)

Lazy Jones (8403) | more than 13 years ago | (#323323)

Why has this been filed under "hardware"? :-)

Re:argh (2)

deusx (8442) | more than 13 years ago | (#323325)

Heeheehee... my favorite line of this message [] comes right at the end:

Hey, this is a funny thing. Did you know that the name of Bill Gate's wife is Melinda? Isn't that the name of your virtual sweetheart?


silly joke. (2)

eshefer (12336) | more than 13 years ago | (#323327)

free software people don't kill people...

Open souce people kill people.

Re:Hmm.. (2)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 13 years ago | (#323331)

Could it be that the average slashdotter is actually *reading* the article for once? :-)

Hey, this is REAL news for nerds...


It's the date, isn't it? (1)

thefallen (16891) | more than 13 years ago | (#323335)

Date as in time.

Re:argh (2)

abelsson (21706) | more than 13 years ago | (#323337)

Not to mention imagining RMS having sex. That is a truly frightening thought.


A cynical opinion ! (1)

Khalid (31037) | more than 13 years ago | (#323344)

>Honesty and being nice are the best two things a
>geek can do to attract females.

Alas this a widely spread misconception. To pick up girls being too honest is often a bad strategy! Being as you really are might make girls run away. Don't forget that girls LOVE to dream, and have often an idealistic view of the man of her dreams (prince charmant syndrom) you must understand what she is looking for and make her feel that you are absolutely the man of her dreams. Sorry guys this absolutely cynical! But this is really the way it works, use you fabulous geek brain for this absolutely strategic social skill :) . I have observed a lot of people with a lot of success with girls and this absolutely the way they act.

Second, Honesty and being too nice may end being absolutely dangerous, as many women will consider you as a "good friend" but not one they consider sexually attractive.

Alas, Women thinking has often nothing to do with Honesty and kindness at least during the dating process, while they may consider this as good family values they are looking in a good husband, but to simply bring them to your bed, it's often useless, or nearly useless. Yes with women YOU NEED to be somehow cynical, and this is something very difficult for many geeks.

Saw an early beta of this document... (2)

mav[LAG] (31387) | more than 13 years ago | (#323345) my house last year when ESR was staying with me [] . Doesn't look like it's helped AJ much though.

Yes, that is a real lion.

Uh... (1)

Penrif (33473) | more than 13 years ago | (#323348)

This has been some guy's sig for the past few weeks (at least). I can't believe you missed it.

Re:chix 101 (1)

Symbiosis (39537) | more than 13 years ago | (#323352)

Be wary of the Quake match, she may beat you... :-)

I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.

Best line... (1)

Symbiosis (39537) | more than 13 years ago | (#323353)

..."be yourself". If yourself is chronically inept with attractive women, this advice sucks.

Don't be yourself unless you're all ready somebody people would like :-)>

I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.

Re:I'm surprised... (1)

Symbiosis (39537) | more than 13 years ago | (#323354)

for those too lazy to read the whole article:

One of the most successful dates I ever had started with dinner at a Mongolian-barbecue place and followed with a visit to a gun range, where I taught the lady basic pistol technique

I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.

Re:I'm surprised... (1)

Symbiosis (39537) | more than 13 years ago | (#323355)

I was not insinuating that you were to lazy read it, I merely offered the quote as a service to those who are. :-)

I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.

Intelligence (5)

Talisman (39902) | more than 13 years ago | (#323356)

Brains are not a turn-off. Intelligence, used correctly, may be the fastest way to seperate a girl from her clothing. Instead of wowing your date by repeating an entire Star Trek episode from memory, why not use your considerable intellect to learn French? Girls really dig that stuff, unless of course she happens to be from France...

But anyway, you know what I mean. Use your abilities to learn things that will impress girls. Memorize every work of Mozart and Beethoven and learn to play a few. Teach yourself a spoken language. Use your brain for something other than learning another programming language or OS.

Another thing, clean up your act. Work out. Get a tan. Pay attention to your wardrobe. You know those hot little sexpots you see bouncing around with their flat stomachs and perky asses? WTF makes you think they want some slouch with a beer keg for a stomach that dresses like their little brother? Most guys can clean up their acts to a very respectable degree, if they put forth the effort. So the 'terminally ugly' defense is rarely true. You, yes YOU, can look much better than you look right now.

Is it shallow? Maybe. But so what? If it gets you what you want, mission accomplished! It's a means to an end. I promise, you'll not feel shallow the first night you bed a really attractive girl.

Re:Hmm.. (1)

mikestro (60854) | more than 13 years ago | (#323366)

Now THAT'S funny.

Ya know, if you're a gazillionaire like ESR.... (3)

smirkleton (69652) | more than 13 years ago | (#323369)

...writing "Sex Tips for Geeks" is made considerably easier by the fact that anything you do will be considered sexy if it is behind the wheel of an Italian or German-made exotic automobile.

"You know, you might think picking your nose while driving around in your car is about as declasse as it gets. But I've had women wave, wink and smile suggestively at me, even while in the midst of a serious nasal mining expedition. I think it's because they saw the LinuxFish on my bumper and realized, 'Hey- this guy must be a smart programmer type.'"

I have, fortunately or unfortunately, many friends who became multimillionaires in the midst of the dotcom run-up. Now even their flatulence smells to some women sweeter than "Obsession". So picking up chicks isn't really a problem for them any more. Now the problem is filtering out the ones who would've loved them when they slept in $300/mo campus housing and drove a Gremlin.

(Of course, I hope for ESR's sake that he managed to dump some of that VA Linux stock back in the day [] . What was once worth to him $36M would I think now be worth less than $500K... And losing over 95% of your personal wealth in less than two years is DEFINITELY not a good way to appear sexy to chicks, ESPECIALLY if you're a geek.)

sometimes the old ways are best (1)

Teratogen (86708) | more than 13 years ago | (#323380)

What happened to conking her on the head with
a club and dragging her back to the cave?

it's him again... (2)

weinford (97037) | more than 13 years ago | (#323383)

...and I admire him for that. ESR makes us read his writings, as he made us read the "Cathedral". First he makes some fun (and has fun, obviously) talking about how we could be more sexy, but it's only in the last three chapters that he gets to the core. Does noone ask the question: Is having a sexual relationship with a random, good looking girl really what we want? Is this about "looking sexy" in the end, about "getting chicks into my bedroom"? Or, rather, how do I find out which of the tremedous amount of good looking females is the right for me to hold me in her arms when I'm tired? Of course, the main reason of us being here is reproduction... sure.
It's the last chapters that are really interesting, and really important. Read them.
And don't care about my .sig...

The REAL thing... (1)

active8or (98950) | more than 13 years ago | (#323384)

I don't know if this is supposed to be a april's fool (or whatever you call it in english), but don't throw it all away...

There is one single factor that matters when it comes to being successfull with the oposite sex: sef-confidence.

Now, this is not very easy to get if you're low on it, but it is a decisive factor, no doubt in my mind...

It is also a thing that differs from situation to situation, as you may INSIST you are right when it comes to the best way of doing an linked list in C++ for a specific app, but when it comes to the ladies, you may fall down of the high place pretty quick. (mey depend on what part of the body we are thinging of...*cough* sorry...)

But hey, fellow geeks: build up that self-confidence if you lack it. And the article has a point to say that you may actally work up you self-confidence with starting on "easy targets"... (moderatly pretty people whom you don't fear)

- Knut S.
May just be me being lame

PS: sex is not nessesearily the only thing to look for you know... (=

Here's the original (1)

bartyboy (99076) | more than 13 years ago | (#323385) [] has had the Dating Guide For Geeks for a couple of years now.

April Fools? (2)

jw3 (99683) | more than 13 years ago | (#323386)

I mean, is that a kind of an overblown April Fools day or something? Or is it really that bad in the geek community? I mean, if you haven't figured most of it during the first 20 years of your life, I do not think this will help you. Or anything else, by that matter.


argh (5)

The_Messenger (110966) | more than 13 years ago | (#323390)

The frightening thing is that those tips are real... hell, I first saw them six months ago. I'm not sure why posting them on the front page counts as an April Fool's joke, maybe Jamie thinks ESR is having some April 1-Fun, but that's not the case.

I beg of you, do not read ESR's Sex Tips. I was plauged for months afterward with dreams (nightmares, if anything) of ESR... (shocking!)... with no clothes... (scary!)... doing sexual things! (Now I'm scarred for life!)

It's worse than, I swear. the tips themselves are fine, but the thought of ESR and -- *shudder*


Are you crazy??? (1)

nordicfrost (118437) | more than 13 years ago | (#323392)

If so, you may be taking dating advice from guy []

Re:Sexism (1)

Nastard (124180) | more than 13 years ago | (#323393)

Damn good answer. Someone mod this up.

c'est vraiment (1)

fluxrad (125130) | more than 13 years ago | (#323394)

les femmes trouvent le francais supercool.

After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network

Re:cathy, gale, and amy... (1)

Doctor Faustus (127273) | more than 13 years ago | (#323396)

I thought Gale was actually very cute...

tips... (5)

legLess (127550) | more than 13 years ago | (#323398)

From the article:
"Fact: Women love long hair! It's an instant chick magnet. It's better than walking puppies in the park! Wash it and wear it down. Toss it around on your shoulders a lot. When my guy does this, women will just walk up and start touching his hair! Wouldn't you like this to happen to you?"
Guess that means John Romero [] gets more ass than a toilet seat, eh? And I'm going bald ... sigh. John's gonna steal my wife, I just know it.

question: is control controlled by its need to control?
answer: yes

The art of the pickup? (5)

HerrGlock (141750) | more than 13 years ago | (#323399)

Is this for Geeks or Rednecks?

Cav Pilot's Reference Page []

Re:Saw an early beta of this document... (2)

BitchAss (146906) | more than 13 years ago | (#323401)

pre-release versions of dead-tree documents are called drafts. Draaaaaafts

Re:Intelligence (2)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 13 years ago | (#323404)

The old sagging bodies of Jack Nicholson, Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart and Rupert Murdoch have not stopped them getting partners that we would kill to have. Looks are an incredibly small part of getting there, self-confidence is the major and, therefore difficult, part of it. Assertiveness training and cognitive therapy of some kind are much better steps in the right direction than having a wardrobe full of Armani and a chest you could crack rocks on.

Re:Are you crazy??? (2)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 13 years ago | (#323405)

The way Mick Jagger looks doesn't stop him getting laid either.

Why? (2)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 13 years ago | (#323406)

Is it always the man's responsibility to make the first move? Women are missing out on a great deal of nice guys by standing in the corner and hoping that something will happen. How many single men would react like a lot of single women - with obnoxious scorn? At worst you'd get a smile and an apology for not being interested. The problem isn't just with men being shy, it's also knowing that 90-95% of the time the girl will be rude or offhand, which can get frustrating after a while.

Re:chix 101 (2)

Twisted Mind (155678) | more than 13 years ago | (#323408)

Damn! There *is* a howto. Lost one excuse

Loaded Statements... (2)

redragon (161901) | more than 13 years ago | (#323409)

This guy was absolutely full of remarks that if any self respecting woman heard would want to shove back down his thoat.

Like: don't rape, because you wouldn't want to be raped. Most people don't have any trouble following that one.

The United States is a RAPE PRONE society. "Most" people may not have this problem, but it's still epidemic because of the social impression that men are supposed to be dominant and agressive, which this article supports. More than too many of my close female friends have been victim of this sort of activity. I've been a part of Rape Awareness coalition, and it IS F*CKING EPIDEMIC.

Take a look at: RAINN [] : It's amazing just how bad it is.

Prudes jump right from this one to "never have casual sex"

Let's just use inflamatory language here. Yea, so if a girl wont screw you on the first date she must be a prude. Language like this leads to "dominant male" attitudes towads women.

Articles like this are interesting, becuase I think it's important for "geeks" to become more social than they often seem to be now. Social does not equal sex. Sex can become something that happens when you're social, and his points to be safe and thoughtful are great. However it's still full of all the old sexist stereotypes that I would hope the more intelligent (?) readers of Slashdot would be able to pick up.


Re:c'est vraiment (1)

rovfrukt (164932) | more than 13 years ago | (#323410)

Non, de femmes et de filles trouve que hommes qui parlez francaise est silly.

Getting laid? (4)

Britz (170620) | more than 13 years ago | (#323414)

OK I am not a geek. But I know some geeks and I get really impressed by most of them, because of their brains. Don't mail me I am male!!! Strangely the first person I met in person apart from LUGs that could make a decent Linux install was a girl! Her looks are really sweet. She studied computer science, can code, writes Tex... Even tries her own port of Linux to some wiered DEC platform. As I stated I am not a geek and therefore can't even code decently. Btw, she already has a nice boyfriend, now chance! Now to your problem. Most male geeks I know don't have girlfriends. This applys also to some other guys I know (I currently don't have a girlfriend either). The problem is not limited to geeks and not all geeks have that problem. The real question should be how to get singles together. Also you really shouldn't focus on getting laid. Sex in a realtionship involving love and trust can be so much better!! So focus on getting a girl. Now if you are a nice person any girl that really gets to know you and has had some experience with a*holes should be a target. Unfortunatly not all girls have that experience. Some go for nice guys naturally, but not all. If you are not a nice guy (go ask someone to be honest, is you are nice. best would be someone who doesn't like you. Yourself or your friends are not a reliable source on that, because they tend to focus too much on your qualities). If you are not a nice guy work on yourself or try to make the girl you are with pregnant ASAP. This highers your chance that she stays with you even so you are an a*hole. Back to the nice guy: Now you know you are smart (geek) and a nice guy. Go for any tips how to meet girls. On the Internet the ratio is very bad. Try focussing on places where you have better chances. Get yourself some nice clothes (again ask somebody else what they think you should wear best would be a girl in the same social cirlces / age group that you want your girlfriend to be) Shower! Shave! Hairdresser! (if you want your girfriend to do that you should do that, too. Fair is fair) Hardest part is going up to girls and talk to them. Don't focus on anything other than to get to know girls for the sake of it. As you talk to them you learn more about them and maybe someday you girl is among them and you already have build enough confidence to not embarres yourself. Sounds like a lot of work? Consider the benefit. Someday a lifelong partner. No worries about getting someone any more and you can finally focus on geek things again. Try not to forget your girlfriend though.

Geek Dating Manifesto (3)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 13 years ago | (#323416)

NetSlaves [] has something similar called the Geek Dating Manifesto [] , which is less in the for of a classic how-to, and more of the form of a chat with someone who has been there. One point is that it hits on the typical reasonable sounding illogic that geeks often bring to dating.

However, it doesn't have the pedigree of the Raymond peice. A quick sample:

This is the logic of "geekboy dating":

+ Want someone
+ Can't get them immediately (at all)
+ Declare that you don't want them after all
+ Repeat

If that reads like shampoo instructions, you're getting the picture. If you think that's normal or healthy, you're missing the point.

Definitely worth a read

Check out the Vinny the Vampire [] comic strip

A few general comments from a female (1)

Ami_Chan (188543) | more than 13 years ago | (#323417)

This article has a few tips that I would agree with, but please don't base your entire dating strategy off of it. For me, I love computer geeks (more specifically, my computer geek.) I find his ability to learn and to apply it to something practical is much more attractive than the stereotypical "hunk" who walks around without his shirt. From my experience, those types of males tend to attract the more shallow women; those who only care for looks. I would bet that most geeks would prefer a woman who can carry on a decent conversation, so bulking up and showing off your body isn't necessarily the way to go for you. Intelligence and its applications are the best way to attract intellectual females.

I also don't agree with the long hair comment made on the "How To Be Sexy" page. Long hair can be nice on a few males. A selective few, IMO. It definately isn't the be all and end all of sexiness.

On the other hand, I agree that it is incredibly sexy when men take what they have and "clean up," even just a nice pair of khakis and clean shirt.

Re:it's all about common interests (2)

GlassUser (190787) | more than 13 years ago | (#323418)

You say you're in south carolina? (in fact you say you go ocean kayaking, so you have to be near . . .) There's beach there, with at least a bit of tourist-trappy-places. Hang out on the beach, learn to make sand castles, walk a dog, liberate a younger sibling or cousin for the day. The sun will do you good too :)

Also consider the grocery store. Ask your mom (if you're still at their house - it's not an insult, I live next door to my parents) for her shopping list, pick stuff up. Cute chicks are drawn to young guys with full shopping carts.

You probably won't like this one, but look around for a religious meeting place. Churches are great places to meet women, most of them are young and single. A tip from a professing young single Christian: avoid like the plague both "singles" classes (eg religious meetmarkets) and Bible-thumping congregations (oddly, a good many SBC congregations do not fall into this group). Put on your good manners for the older crowd, smile, talk with the seniors there (LEARN from them, things are not as different now as both you and them might think - some most relevant advice I've received is from an older person wistfully recalling a story about how things were so different back in the day).

Do you really have to have a woman who knows computers? Can't she just have a positive vague opinion of them? Diversity in a relationship is a good thing, IMHO.

Even if you don't find the kind of chick you're looking for in these circles, don't hesitate to make friends, take a female or two out for dinner or something. Girl WILL spread the word that you're a nice guy, and networking is a good thing. It seems that girls instinctively try to hook people up. Once they know what a nice guy is looking for, they will begin to do the searching and interviewing for him. Don't be surprised when they pointedly parade their single, intelligent friends before you.

Take me as I am or don't take me at all (2)

fenux (193823) | more than 13 years ago | (#323419)

You really have to change just to get a girl??, i don't think so... I,as a geek, don't feel the urge to really really need a girl, in contrast to some of my none geekisch friends who also don't have a girl... It would be a surpluss, but if it would mean i would have to leave my pc yust to spend time with her, then rather not... Why do so many people think that geeks don't have a girlfriend just because they don't know how to get one, i don't have one, just because i'd rather spend my time (and money) in my pc than in someone i know for certain wcould never be the right one... i just don't need one that only consumes my time thats all. if only my friends would undertand this in place of trying to push me to get a girl

ESR should read The Selfish Gene (1)

sillysally (193936) | more than 13 years ago | (#323421)

his page on promiscuity says:

Evolutionary biology teaches us that humans being, like other animals, are adaptive machines; "feels good" is simply instinct's way to steer us towards behaviors that were on average successful for our ancestors.

That statement indicates that he does not understand evolution. We are not the "average" of what came before. Each of us has a very distinct lineage. "feels good to us" represents some particular gene's survival strategy that has worked so far, not for us, but for that gene.

Erroneous belief in evolution is very widespread, and that's ironic because it is particularly silly to call creationists "ignorant" from a position of ignorance. Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene" is a great way to get educated.

Re:Uh... (1)

sillysally (193936) | more than 13 years ago | (#323422)

"Love can not be much younger than the lust for murder" -- Sigmund Freud

I have a feeling that must have been .sigmund who said that, but in any case, unless you are sort of twisted, shouldn't it be "Love cannot be much older than the lust for murder"?

Re:pupils, shrink... from this advice. (1)

sillysally (193936) | more than 13 years ago | (#323423)

No, I understand this a real reaction.

dude, I didn't say it wasn't a real reaction, I said thinking about it is having your mind on the wrong things. And you've brought us to lesson two: in a mating/dating/meeting situation do not jump in to argue the merit of scientific claims, and particularly, do not use science fiction as an example of anything.

pupils, shrink... from this advice. (3)

sillysally (193936) | more than 13 years ago | (#323424)

Watch for pupillary dilation; if they get wider when she looks back at you, you're winning. Conversely, if her pupils shrink you are probably better off looking elsewhere.

... or maybe the bright light is behind you?

the sort of advice he dispenses indicates exactly why geeks should not think to hard about trying to pick up girls. if you are measuring her pupils, you are not in the game.

voulez-vous manger "gach" avec moi, ce soir? (5)

sillysally (193936) | more than 13 years ago | (#323425)

Instead of wowing your date by repeating an entire Star Trek episode from memory, why not use your considerable intellect to learn French?

Wow, this is good advice. Anybody know where I can get a Klingon-French dictionary? I'm going to make her shiver...

Re:chix 101 (1)

mayar (204675) | more than 13 years ago | (#323426)

Nr one for instance works on us geek chix! Dateing non-geeks is way to complicated! Geek-girl alreadly spoken for.

very true (1)

serlo (206060) | more than 13 years ago | (#323427)

erics article is very close to reality!

Grey Tissue? (2)

Basalisk (215292) | more than 13 years ago | (#323432)

Personally, I wouldn't find a liter of grey tissue sexy. Firstly, Why are the tissues grey? have they been used? and secondly why is there a liter of them? Why are you using a fluid measure for discrete objects. Unless of course they were all wet... Eugh.

Userfriendly (1)

ExTycho (218077) | more than 13 years ago | (#323433)

Uh.. wasn't this LOTD at userfriendly a few days ago? oh well.. we can never have too many geeks breeding.. (without it, who will play D&D when we're gone?)

In my opinion (1)

James Foster (226728) | more than 13 years ago | (#323434)

Honesty and being nice are the best two things a geek can do to attract females.
Be honest about everything and be yourself (except for the geek talk -- DON'T talk about computers constantly). I guess that kinda depends on who "yourself" is but it usually works best compared to the macho idiots that most non-geeks (and some geeks, sadly) pretend to be.
Don't be afraid to say "I'm a computer geek" but make sure to mention that you're more than that.

Johnny's Guide To Dating (2)

Johnny Starrock (227040) | more than 13 years ago | (#323435)

Home truths learned for 20 some odd years in the midwest:
  • Women are gold-diggers. It's all about the bottom line, which I can actually respect.
  • Women want to be treated badly. Ignore them. Tell them how attractive their other female friends are. Get real drunk and humilate them while hitting on everything in sight. They LOVE it! It gives them something to complain about. Guys who respect women and are nice to them are BOR-ING!
  • Intellegence is NOT sexy to women. It's scary.
  • Size isn't everything, it's the only thing ;)
Nightclub fun:
Going out to a night club? Here's guarenteed ways to hook up!
  • Be at least 6' 6", own a leather jacket, be prepared to discuss your new SUV and your position at the GaP at length.
  • Write 10 digits on a napkin, give it to a girl. She doesn't want your phone number? That's not your phone number, that's your net worth. Compare and contrast the results of differn evenings.
There are, of course, exceptions. I know a few myself. (in fact they're among others on their way over for a big drunken cookout) Feel free to disagree, but this is what I've learned. Besides, we don't have to agree for me to be right. =)

Re:Intelligence (1)

sheetsda (230887) | more than 13 years ago | (#323437)

Is it shallow? Maybe. But so what? If it gets you what you want, mission accomplished! It's a means to an end. I promise, you'll not feel shallow the first night you bed a really attractive girl.

Sure, if your only goal is to get laid, but you can't have a meaningful relationship based on lies. If only we could attract more women to this industry. :\

"// this is the most hacked, evil, bastardized thing I've ever seen. kjb"

Re:Hardware? (1)

shik0me (235948) | more than 13 years ago | (#323438)

I think the picture of a nut is a visual metaphor :)

Re:Intelligence (1)

MaxQuordlepleen (236397) | more than 13 years ago | (#323439)

why not use your considerable intellect to learn French? Girls really dig that stuff, unless of course she happens to be from France...

If you try to learn French to pick up chicks, take a trip to Montreal. Everyone there speaks english, so you don't have to really learn it all that well, and there will probably be some babes who find a french-speaking Yankee just delightful...

But do NOT try this in Quebec City or Baie Comeau or Hull etc., etc., it's pretty much a Montreal-only kind of thing...>

Re:argh (1)

stud9920 (236753) | more than 13 years ago | (#323440)

and if you want pictures, you can go to

Get the girls (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 13 years ago | (#323444)

OMG. It never fails to amaze me. I was there... making out "girls" to be the holy grail.

Last things first -- judge women on the same scale as you judge men. These ideals concern honor, goals, direction, methods and manners, tactics and all that stuff. How on EARTH do you expect to live with someone (long term) that you cannot identify with. And never fall back on "well? she's a woman? what can you expect?" You have already disrespected women by expecting less from them. Expect more and get more. Also, never let her become a "weight" in your life. When you see signs of this occuring, take measures to remedy or just bail...but let her know about it before-hand...give her a fair chance to straighten out and if she's smart, she will and you'll both be happier people for it.

First things last -- NEVER worry about long-term relationships. If a relationship is going to last, then the chemistry and other random circumstances will fall into place to make it happen. NEVER worry about how much time you have "invested" in her. (*DO* worry about how much money you have spent on her however.) If she is going to use you, make sure you get what you want from her too...keep it equal. (the exception is when use becomes abuse -- in that case, make sure abuse from you is mental rather than's harder to be put in jail and the damage is longer lasting.)

NEVER EVER EVER get hooked up with the first girl you have sex with. Women are NOT the holy grail... it gets old eventually though you never stop needing it. So you damned well better make sure you have something to talk about between sessions.

If you hate me for saying this, you're either a woman or you're a pussy-whipped male likely raised exclusively by your mother. I make no apologies, because I was once the second category before I started to really figure things out. And for the record, most of the time, I get more than I know what to do with now... I don't know why exactly but I can advise you to simply go with your instincts and it helps to have a sense of humor.

Hasta, fellow geeks...

How about playing up their sympathy? (1)

invalid_user (253723) | more than 13 years ago | (#323445)

Like, you know, the way Hollywood would have us believe... like in "Forrest Gump", or "There's Something About Mary", or "Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo".

Anybody scored with that one yet?

Huh? No?

I knew you would say that. It's a plot. Hollywood wants all of us to behave stupid... then one day, they sneak in and snatch all our females!

Yes... and finally I can write

"all your female are belong to us." - Hollywood


Re:get off your ass..... (1)

invalid_user (253723) | more than 13 years ago | (#323446)

blah blah blah i think unless you get out there and actually start doing shit

I thought you're supposed to "start digging"... not "doing shit"! My Gawd!

Re:April Fools? (1)

jmitchel! (254506) | more than 13 years ago | (#323447)

When I was a teen I read the Jargon File religiously. A few months ago I met ESR at a dinner as well. The bits I read seem entirely authentic.

As for the actual content, I see it as Mr Raymond's latest pass at writing a quick, practical guide to a topic that many find confuddling.

ESR's article is on the money (1)

awatters (256109) | more than 13 years ago | (#323448)

But the most important thing to do is get your appearance right, because that affects other areas:

- Take a photo of yourself on a typical day. This will be your "before" picture.
- Cut your hair short, so it looks neat and clean. This cut is low maintenance and is in style right now.
- Set aside about $1000 to play with-- for your new "gear."
- Contact a friend from college who had style and invite him/her to go shopping with you.
- Visit [] and get a pair of black boots.
- Dig out your best sport shirt and a nice pair of blue jeans from your closet. Wear contacts.
- Go to your local Nautica Store [] and pick out a few buttondown sport shirts and sweaters that you like. Get some khakis and jeans too. Review them with your friend. About $300 should do it here.
- Go home, wear your new clothes for the next week, and be happy.
- Now that you look and feel better, go to Nordstrom the following week and get new Nordstrom socks, undershirts, CK underwear, a canvas clubbing jacket, dress shirts, maybe a leather jacket, and a nice belt. You already have a kickass pair of shoes, but another pair couldn't hurt.
- You might consider going into "The Rail" at Nordstrom and asking them their advice, since those people usually have a clue.
- Take a photo of yourself a week later, and compare it with "before." I'll bet you changed a whole lot.

Most importantly, keep in mind that these changes are gradual and that there is no instant solution. I was hopeless until I went shopping with my friends, and since then I have had an eye for good clothing. It's not that I'm shallow, it's just that knowing you look good is the biggest self-confidence booster. You also have to look in the right places. Bars are ok when you go with friends, but if you are alone then work is probably the best place, especially if you work in a large company with a lot of young available females. If you think in terms of marketing-- selling yourself to potential customers-- you are on the right track. Have confidence and be whatever you want to be.

Re:Grey Tissue? (1)

Paul the Bold (264588) | more than 13 years ago | (#323450)

Brains, he's talking about human brains. They are grey, and the volume inside your skull is more or less 1 liter (in your case, probably less).

Re:Hardware? (1)

flynn_nrg (266463) | more than 13 years ago | (#323452)

Why has this been filed under "hardware"? :-)

Love is the software part and sex is hardware. That's also why most people prefer them to go together. :)

Blah, blah, blah. (1)

Icephreak1 (267199) | more than 13 years ago | (#323453)

Raymond's writeup is borderline scientific babble. Need something more practical? eduction.html


chix 101 (5)

deran9ed (300694) | more than 13 years ago | (#323455)


Show them your T1 lines and your modifications to the Linux kernel -- they'll be very impressed.

Grunt when they say anything to you -- remember, avoid eye contact at all costs.

Never leave your home -- any babes worthy of your attention will come knocking on your door.

Surf the net for porn, so you know what real women should look like.

Test whether they really love you; never, ever shave or shower.

Don't exercise -- the weak, pudgy mess that you are will evoke maternal feelings of sympathy.

If they talk to you, it means that they love you.

Remember, girls always prefer email to real mail.

Sitting three seats behind them on the bus is a good start.

Become a billioniare -- trade money for babes.

Write the next, killer software app -- your fame will draw them to you.

Remember, what's cool to your geek friends is cool to babes too.

Make them understand that you are more evolved than that hunky football star.

Declare that you are homosexual -- that never fails to interest them; pounce when guard is down.

Babes always go for the stronger man -- duke it out over a game of Quake.

Write a geeky web page.

Use mnemonics to aid communication e.g. Hello == main(){, Goodbye == }

Increase your "reproductive fitness" -- become the Alpha geek of your pack

The woman you're talking to on the net really is female and most likely a babe -- and remember, cybersex is as good as real sex.

chix dig us []

ESR is jobless (1)

poojyum (302222) | more than 13 years ago | (#323456)

dont u guys think ESR has got nothing better to do than write this kind of shit?

and if i read that shit, i am even worse. poojyum

Re:Why? (1)

shaunak (304231) | more than 13 years ago | (#323457)

I agree and second that. Most girls really _ARE_ rude. Maybe, someday, there'll be a girl who goes "That is nice, thank you. But I'd rather not"

I've got an interesting idea. (1)

skarzin (314685) | more than 13 years ago | (#323470)

We could all get together, and write about 5 or 6 manual pages on interesting topics as "sex tips for geeks", etc. Allowing the eager user to type "man sex" and learn the lost art of the geek.

It really is good advice (2)

sagacious_gnostic (319793) | more than 13 years ago | (#323475)

There are a couple of basics every guy should know. You want to take on the body language of relaxation and confidence -- so speak softly, and move gracefully and deliberately. Use the lower end of your normal vocal range; high notes come from a tense throat.

This is what I have been saying for ages. Grace is the key. This is why you will see me at parties walking around gracefully, like a ballerina, in my pink armour. I also tend to speak softly, but in a low low voice... It really turns them on. "Hey baby... wanna dance?" /me winks and walks gracefully away, swaying his hips in his pink armour... (that'll get her *wink* *wink*)

Paper hats are a good tip as well (2)

sagacious_gnostic (319793) | more than 13 years ago | (#323476)

Something that ESR didn't mention, but should be included is something that Linus, in all his wisdom, knows without even thinking about it... wear a paper hat.

Re:Sex tip: (2)

UltraBot2K1 (320256) | more than 13 years ago | (#323477)

All your vagina are belong to ESR!

it's all about common interests (1)

emn-slashdot (322299) | more than 13 years ago | (#323479)

I just don't have any common interests with 95% of girls. Therefore I have nothing to talk about with them, and I don't even get to use these sex tips I've all but memorized. I think I'm attractive. I bathe (at least every 2-3 days). I even do some ocean kyacking. I just can't seem to find a girl because the only places around here that girls may be found are clubs. I hate house music. The only girls I've found that are even remotely intelligent, and interested in computers are fat, ugly, hairy, and mean. In South Carolina... there just isn't that much of a geek-chick population.

Anyone got some tips? Places that might be cool to hunt for a chick?

a.k.a. Joseph Nicholas Yarbrough
Security Grunt by Day
Programmer by Night

Re:Off topic, but so what! (1)

RoundSparrow (341175) | more than 13 years ago | (#323482)

haha true.

Re:Intelligence (1)

jessielu (403866) | more than 13 years ago | (#323483)

You're definitely right about not being able to have a meaningful relationship based on that guy's advice. But I don't think the shortage of women in the computing industry is necessarily the problem. I'm a woman studying computer science and I don't magically drift to dating men also in my field -- in fact, my current boyfriend is in ergonomics. What matters to me more is intelligence -- it would matter to me what area he was knowledgable about as long as he is smart. So, if you're confining yourself to only considering computer women, or you think that they are the only ones who would be into you, that's not true. The most important things, at least to any woman worth your while, are intelligence and confidence. Trust me.

Re:Intelligence (1)

jessielu (403866) | more than 13 years ago | (#323484)

Note: In my previous reply I accidently wrote, "It would matter to me what area..." That was supposed to be WOULDN'T. :)

Re:A cynical opinion ! (1)

jessielu (403866) | more than 13 years ago | (#323485)

That is definitely not true. Yes, there are women who consider nice guys only as friends and for some reason crave guys who mistreat them. But there are a lot of women who are not like that also. You are just making generalizations. I agree that honesty and being nice are very important -- but intelligence and confidence also matter a lot to women. It's pretty disturbing that you're telling guys that they have to basically train themselves to be cynical about women in order to get them to bed. What kind of attitude is that?

Uhmm... I've seen ESR in person. (1)

gmplague (412185) | more than 13 years ago | (#323487)

Excuese me... I've seen ESR speak in person, and lets just say that he's not quite the ladies man the article would have you believe. Not exactly the man I'd take sex tips from.
Take comfort in your ignorance.

Re:Because she wouldn't respond well to software (1)

sharlin (412383) | more than 13 years ago | (#323488)

Just cause you pulled last night! Give it a week or so, you'll be back to a pathetic nerd like the rest of us.

Sexism (1)

terri rolle (413434) | more than 13 years ago | (#323489)

The frightening thing is ESR's complete objectification of women. When will people stop putting up with these stone age attitudes, and start demanding that women be treated as if they were actual human beings?

Sex tip: (1)

Another boring name (413714) | more than 13 years ago | (#323492)

Goat sex!

Re:Sex tip: (1)

Another boring name (413714) | more than 13 years ago | (#323493)

Yeah, Stallman is much more active [] in that area.

get off your ass..... (4)

Gigadafud (413848) | more than 13 years ago | (#323494)

blah blah blah i think unless you get out there and actually start doing shit, you will not learn a thing. you can read outta a book all day, but unless you actually start trying you aint got a thing!

Guys like brainy-women (1)

adric22 (413850) | more than 13 years ago | (#323495)

Truth is, maybe women don't find brains attractive, but men find brains in women attractive. Why d'you think Seven of Nine gets so much attention? Sure, she has a great body but so do a lot of other actresses out there. Her character makes her more attractive. If you ever saw Jerri Ryan in person or out of character (I have) you'd think of her less as "Seven of Nine" and more of a bimbo who can act well. The real Jerri Ryan never even used to watch Star Trek (too nerdy for her) until she hired on! My point is (not to try to be sexist) but there aren't that many genious women out there.. The ones that are look like men or worse. A woman who is both a genious and a gorgious babe is a rare thing indeed, and very much sought after.

Because she wouldn't respond well to software (2)

Clyde Radcliffe (413851) | more than 13 years ago | (#323496)

although I hear it happens to all men at somepoint in their lives...

Excuse my laughing - I'm still trying to get over the premise that slashdotters actually *have* sex.
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