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OS X 10.8 vs. Ubuntu On Apple Hardware, Benchmarked

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the apt-get-me-a-new-version dept.

Graphics 130

An anonymous reader writes "OS X 10.8 has been benchmarked against Ubuntu Linux with some interesting results. From the tests on a Apple Mac Mini and Apple MacBook Pro, OS X Mountain Lion was clearly superior when it came to the graphics performance, but the rest of the time the operating systems performed quite closely with no clear winner. OS X also seems to have greater performance issues with solid-state drives than Linux."

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So... (0)

Razgorov Prikazka (1699498) | about 2 years ago | (#41098471)

OSX is bloated as well?

surprise surprise (5, Informative)

shentino (1139071) | about 2 years ago | (#41098477)

Apple hardware performs better when run by Apple device drivers.

News at 11.

Re:surprise surprise (1)

Sparticus789 (2625955) | about 2 years ago | (#41098501)

Stole my line....

Re:surprise surprise (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41098527)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We know. "It's teh Linux!!!onehundredeleven!!!"
 
Shut your gob, neckbeard.

Re:surprise surprise (1)

haystor (102186) | about 2 years ago | (#41098559)

No kidding.

What are the benchmarks on all the non Apple hardware platforms?

Re:surprise surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41098785)

That. Seems like kind of a no-brainer.

Re:surprise surprise (1)

Tamran (1424955) | about 2 years ago | (#41100145)

That. Seems like kind of a no-brainer.

I think that was haystor's point ... but in reverse.

Re:surprise surprise (2)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 2 years ago | (#41099481)

What would you like run? Pretty sure you can go do a little research at www.insanelymac.com or www.tonymacx86.com for example and see some benchmarks on hackintoshes.

Re:surprise surprise (1, Flamebait)

overmoderated (2703703) | about 2 years ago | (#41098807)

Apple is for boys who don't shave.

Re:surprise surprise (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41104355)

Apple is for boys who don't have anything to shave.

FTFY

Re:surprise surprise (4, Informative)

maccodemonkey (1438585) | about 2 years ago | (#41099211)

For graphics, what Apple device drivers?

The graphics drivers are written in house at NVidia and AMD. Apple doesn't actually write their own drivers. And the GPUs are just bog standard AMD, NVidia, and Intel GPUs (expect for some of the graphics switching.). There is not reason Linux should be at a disadvantage.

And if they did I'd expect worse performance. Back when Apple used to write their own drivers they were totally awful. Apple has less experience writing graphics drivers, I'm not actually sure why you'd expect Apple written drivers to perform better.

Re:surprise surprise (2)

SwedishPenguin (1035756) | about 2 years ago | (#41099303)

The hardware tested had an Intel HD 3000 integrated graphics, the Linux Intel drivers are known for being slow, but the Nvidia drivers are just as fast (or slightly faster in some cases) as the Windows-equivalent and presumably OSX as well. ATI I'm not sure, but they're at least closer to Windows performance than Intel is.

Re:surprise surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41100695)

The only reason is that they can throw $billions are getting the most experienced coders (e.g. from the linux community) to trim nanoseconds off the drivers they rely on most....

Re:surprise surprise (2)

maccodemonkey (1438585) | about 2 years ago | (#41101389)

The only reason is that they can throw $billions are getting the most experienced coders (e.g. from the linux community) to trim nanoseconds off the drivers they rely on most....

Not seeing how that matters. The end user experience is what it is. What you said is an excuse, not a solution.

Open source drivers (2)

Chemisor (97276) | about 2 years ago | (#41101093)

Intel graphics on Linux uses the open source Mesa/Gallium stack, which still has significantly lower performance than the proprietary drivers. Frankly, I'm wondering if the GPU is being used at all. I have a Radeon 6870, and with open source radeon driver I don't see any acceleration. For example, a full-screen xterm with Midnight Commander takes a full half-second to draw the frame with only 160x50 char cells. With fglrx 12.8, the drawing time is not noticeable at all. The Mesa radeon feature matrix says R600 should have full GPU acceleration for all X calls, but something is just not working right. I'm guessing something similar might have happened with the benchmarks.

Re:Open source drivers (1)

Vegemeister (1259976) | about 2 years ago | (#41103493)

Are you actually using xterm, or is it one of the libvte based terminals (gnome-terminal, xfce4-terminal, ect.)? I recently encountered some pretty serious performance issues with libvte. Try Konsole, or urxvt if you want something less heavy.

Re:Open source drivers (1)

Chemisor (97276) | about 2 years ago | (#41103887)

Are you actually using xterm, or is it one of the libvte based terminals (gnome-terminal, xfce4-terminal, ect.)?

I'm using xterm. gnome-terminal is actually faster because it uses Xrender to draw the text, while xterm relies on Xft. Under fglrx gnome-terminal is awesomely fast, with no flicker at all. Unfortunately, vte-based terminals flash the gray background when you switch to them. They also have that ugly resize handle in the lower right corner that nothing can remove. Oh, and gnome-terminal captures F10 (which you need to quit Midnight Commander). So, no thanks. With fglrx xterm is fast enough.

Re:surprise surprise (5, Insightful)

CAIMLAS (41445) | about 2 years ago | (#41104227)

The graphics drivers are written in house at NVidia and AMD. Apple doesn't actually write their own drivers. And the GPUs are just bog standard AMD, NVidia, and Intel GPUs (expect for some of the graphics switching.). There is not reason Linux should be at a disadvantage.

What, you mean aside from the fact that Linux drivers for all those respective device manufacturers don't really get a whole lot of attention from the developers compared to Windows and OS X?

But really, that's not important. What people need to pay attention to is that this is something done by Phoronix. This means you need to consider a couple things:

* This benchmark is almost meaningless. Time and time again, I have seen them (falsely) correlate data with an assumption.
* The review was done by someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about.
* These are synthetics. Without context or understanding of what the benchmarks are doing (there is no explanation) or what may have led to the
* The discrepancies are, in most cases, severe enough that you have to assume (at least) one of the following: their benchmark suite was not properly/identically configured for all architectures, or there are drastic implementation discrepancies within the benchmark tool they're using (eg. it wasn't designed but with a specific use case in mind).

The reason there is "no clear winner" is because it's all rubbish. They're throwing 100 things at two different targets and comparing what misses and saying "no conclusion". Really? You'd have better consistency with an ink blot test of random participants, with ink blots generated by a true random number generator.

Some of the graphics benchmarks don't stand out; the ones that stand out the most are the computational ones involving (very) standard libraries or frameworks which then contradict later results.

For instance, CompileBench and Threaded I/O Tester: OS X falls flat on its face. The threaded I/O tester I believe, because I've seen the same with db and server performance. But earlier, they've got bgbench giving OS X four times the performance for postgresql as Linux. Is that even rational, given that even FileMaker has shyed away from OS X as a preferred platform due to threading and filesystem performance?

Then, they go on to fail to explain these things and why they're fundamentally inconsistent. Not just "this doesn't quite line up, we can write it off due to different library version overhead" but in line with "this car goes faster because its engine is smaller". What?

On a more personal level, I have used their suite of benchmark tools and come away fairly underwhelmed by the results. They're inconsistent and inexplicable, such as those seen in this review.

Here's a hint, benchmarkers:

* when you benchmark something, you must compare things and try to figure out why they are performing as they do.
* If there are gross discrepancies which belay a reasonable expectation or contradicts other information, investigate it, because it's probably important
* Be sure of what you're comparing. If you've got (more or less) identical binaries on different platforms and the hardware, you're just comparing the kernel. Is that what's happening here? Are their tools linked against native libraries (which would, you know, be an honest benchmark of said platform) or do they use their own stack?

Anyway, I could go on, but you get the idea. This benchmark is stupid on its face. The only benchmarks I'd trust from this roundup here are those that are straight up "measure something real" (frames per second in x, time to complete concrete task y). They make a very different picture than when the synthetics are thrown in to the whole: overall OS X performance is pretty abysmal, but is marginally better at graphical things than Linux. This fits pretty close with my (personal) observation that OS X is about 10-15% slower than linux on general things, markedly slower on threaded things, and a dog at file manipulations while having a firm grasp on display management/graphical stuff - so it might just be my "uneducated Apple-hating bias" speaking. :)

Re:surprise surprise (1, Funny)

burne (686114) | about 2 years ago | (#41100105)

Intel HD 3000 or NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M graphics is Apple hardware? That would be real news...

Re:surprise surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41100681)

Um, you probably didn't think this through.

The hardware is COTS chips, so it's all about the quality of the driver, given the same chipset API. In most cases a coder with more experience in that chipset (e.g. because Dell were using it a year before Apple) will turn out a more mature, better, driver....

Obviously, the same is true in reverse - bad code in Linux, is still bad code, but Apple probably wouldn't allow it to persist for long if it really was bad.

Re:surprise surprise (2, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | about 2 years ago | (#41101003)

I just wish people would be happy with what they like instead of the constant "X is better than Y" flamewars. If OSX is to your liking and you think Apple hardware is worth the extra scratch? Then please enjoy, wish you nothing but luck. If you think Linux is worth the hassle, are a programmer and need the ability to script, or one of the lucky few that manages to find hardware that is never broken by an update? Great, I wish you nothing but luck and happiness. If you are one of those people for whom the large software library of Windows is required and are able to avoid the crappy releases like Vista and 8, or want to play AAA gaming? Please enjoy, nothing but luck to you.

But please just stop with the ridiculous notion that what works for you will work for everyone else because ya know what? It don't. If the programs I need run on Windows then Linux really isn't gonna help. If my workflow is built around OSX then Windows is gonna drive me batshit and if I need to be able to futz with the low level internals than Windows and OSX is gonna be worthless.

I do have to wonder though, who in their right mind is gonna pay the extra cost associated with Apple hardware to run...Ubuntu? That don't make no damned sense at all, if you want to run Ubuntu you can buy any OEM, many of which has better hardware specs than Apple for cheaper, or even better buy a machine actually BUILT for Ubuntu from someone like System76 and support a market for FOSS systems. Paying all that extra money just to run on a free OS on Apple gear just seems...well kinda retarded to me.

Re:surprise surprise (4, Interesting)

shentino (1139071) | about 2 years ago | (#41102313)

I love how you're biased in calling linux a hassle to program and saying that one must know how to script to use it properly.

There are actually, contrary to rumor, a few user friendly distros out there that don't require a PhD in computer science to make use of.

And Microsoft at least HAS been caught hiding APIs that gives its own programs a performance advantage.

My comment isn't about which is better, anyway. It's about which ones cheat on their benchmarks by giving themselves a proprietary boost not available to the competition.

See also the scandal of either nvidia or ati making its own hardware's performance deliberately go down the crapper when it detected the competition's chips.

Re:surprise surprise (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41104163)

I love how you're biased in calling linux a hassle to program and saying that one must know how to script to use it properly.

the gp said neither of those. they presented a (non-exhaustive) list of three alternative (note "or") reasons one might use linux:

      * the person in question considers it worth the hassle
      * the person in question is a developer and needs to be able to script
      * the person in question is lucky enough to have found hardware that is never broken by an update

these are obviously to be interpreted from the point of view of the hypothetical person making these choices, not from the point of view of the gp. i.e. the gp isn't saying linux is a hassle; the gp is saying some other person might think linux is a hassle and yet still worth using. that's hardly bias against linux.

at no point was "linux is a hassle to program" asserted. see those commas in gp's post? yeah.

at no point was "one must know how to script in order to use [linux] properly" asserted. in fact, gp's assertion was the opposite of this: if one needs to be able to script, one must use linux (rather than windows or os x).

now, that last point about windows/os x being presumably unscriptable is, of course, up for debate. but if you're going to come wading in to disagree with something someone says, wouldn't you be better off first being clear on what they actually said?

meaningful debate starts and ends with engaging your opponent's argument in good faith. as soon as you start reinterpreting their argument and arguing against your own reinterpretation, you're not debating anymore, you're just making an annoying fucking noise.

Re:surprise surprise (2)

epyT-R (613989) | about 2 years ago | (#41104383)

..the bias shows because his initial point is that all of them are hassles to different people, then he explicitly suggests linux is a hassle by default.

Re:surprise surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41101645)

Apple hardware performs better

Quick, make a list of "Apple hardware":

Clue: the list will contain no items. Apple computers contain commodity hardware.

Re:surprise surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41102031)

Most of the hardware is not from Apple, tho. Makes your argument trollish at best. Apple merely makes the motherboard. News at 11.

Re:surprise surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41104041)

What apple hardware

Bottom line.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41098491)

You'll still get AIDS and die like Steve Jobs.

Re:Bottom line.. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41100029)

Not if the cancer gets you first.

and...? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41098533)

How is any of this surprising and/or news? Mac OS X has been designed with the graphics card of MacBooks in mind. Other parts of the hardware don't require as much magic, so there's less difference...

Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (4, Interesting)

MrEricSir (398214) | about 2 years ago | (#41098545)

I made the mistake of "upgrading" two Ubuntu 12.04 desktops to solid state drives, only to find the performance increase was trivial.

What gives? The difference between magnetic drives and SSDs on OS X is incredible. Is this a driver issue, or what?

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (5, Interesting)

Sparticus789 (2625955) | about 2 years ago | (#41098645)

PEBKAC. When I upgraded my Ubuntu laptop to SSD, boot time was under 10 seconds and my battery life while surfing the internet went from 3 hours to almost 5 hours. Not all SSDs are made the same, you have to research the performance of each, power draw, etc.

That being said, I bought the SSD with the second-lowest power usage and middle-of-the-road performance.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (4, Informative)

Hatta (162192) | about 2 years ago | (#41098681)

Linux caches disk reads pretty aggressively. If you have plenty of RAM, you might only notice a difference the first time you start an app.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (5, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#41098731)

That's Not what the article said. It said OS X had performance issues with solid state drives.

Also I'm kinda curious: Why would spend twice as much to buy an Intel Mac PC if they're just running linux? I'd buy a regular PC for 1/2 to 2/3rd the cost.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41099195)

Also I'm kinda curious: Why would spend twice as much to buy an Intel Mac PC if they're just running linux? I'd buy a regular PC for 1/2 to 2/3rd the cost.

If you want a high-reolution display, Apple is unfortunately the only game in town.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (2)

ByOhTek (1181381) | about 2 years ago | (#41099291)

True for notebooks, but I've know a lot of people who've gotten mac displays and put them on PCs... Though, there is some competition now, if you don't mind spending some absurd money. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002660 [newegg.com] Not sure how it's image quality compares with an Apple monitor though - usually you can't do better, only get parity.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41099411)

What about Dell Ultra Sharps? I thought they were actually the same display as Apples. Once upon a time anyway.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (1)

Daas (620469) | about 2 years ago | (#41101489)

They still are but the 27" is in the same price range as the Apple. (Especially if you consider the purchase of the Dual-Link DVI Adaptor)

You can buy some cheap 27" displays shipped from Korea for about 350$ that use the same panel as Apple and Dell. The stands are crap but the display itself looks amazing.

Re: Why an Intel Mac PC to run linux? (5, Informative)

sl956 (200477) | about 2 years ago | (#41099461)

Also I'm kinda curious: Why would spend twice as much to buy an Intel Mac PC if they're just running linux? I'd buy a regular PC for 1/2 to 2/3rd the cost.

I looked for a silent small footprint linux pc. I was unable to find one. That's why I bought a Mac Mini. It runs Linux flawlessly... and silently thanks to the fanless design and SSD.

People wanting an HD screen on a laptop might also have to buy Apple hardware even though they plan to use only Linux.

Re: Why an Intel Mac PC to run linux? (2)

dfghjk (711126) | about 2 years ago | (#41100487)

Mac Minis are not fanless designs nor are they silent.

Re: Why an Intel Mac PC to run linux? (4, Informative)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | about 2 years ago | (#41101085)

I have the older style Mini and when the HDD goes to sleep and it runs on SSD-only it's damn near completely silent. The fan will only come on when really stressing the cpu.

Re: Why an Intel Mac PC to run linux? (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 2 years ago | (#41102353)

I have the older style Mini and when the HDD goes to sleep and it runs on SSD-only it's damn near completely silent. The fan will only come on when really stressing the cpu.

Psh, that's not fixing the real issue. You should solve the problem at it's source. My heatsink fans could be a pair of turbo props, and I still wouldn't hear it them.

Now, where was I? Look, I don't know or care if this is my lawn or not, but you better get to stepping!

Re: Why an Intel Mac PC to run linux? (1)

gerardrj (207690) | about 2 years ago | (#41103599)

The fan is ALWAYS on. I think idle for the older Mini's fan is 1,200 RPM and max of about 5,500RPM.

Re: Why an Intel Mac PC to run linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41102059)

ive a 1080p 13 inches sony vaio... and it runs linux.. i happen to type on it ;-)

Re: Why an Intel Mac PC to run linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41102617)

Err, an HD screen on a laptop? Other than the new retina displays, Apple has always had the worst resolution of any given size option. 15", why that will be 1440x720. 1080p? What madness is that, this is a Macbook sir.

Re: Why an Intel Mac PC to run linux? (1)

SimonTheSoundMan (1012395) | about 2 years ago | (#41103193)

Apple have had either 1440x900 or 1680x1050 for their 15 inch line.

Re: Why an Intel Mac PC to run linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41103043)

My answer: While no longer available, Dell Mini 9. Defaulted to Linux. Currently running Ubuntu 10.04. Quick boot. And has absolutely no operation moving parts (SSD, fanless design) allowing for true silent running. And for years I could run close to 5 hours on a charge before requiring the battery recharged. Took until this last month for me to need a new battery.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (3, Interesting)

willy_me (212994) | about 2 years ago | (#41099551)

I would guess it is because OS X defragments the drive as it is being written. The overhead is largely not noticed when writing to a traditional hard drive while. Due to SSDs greater speed, it will make it appear that OS X has performance issues. The thing about performing inline defragmentation is it improves speed as the computer ages and as the HD begins to fill. Because all of the benchmarks were performed with fresh systems, the benefits of a defragmented drive would not be noticed.

The question I have is with the low seek times of SSDs, is there still a need to defragment drives? Probably, but to what degree as it surely is not as important as when one is using a traditional hard drive.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (4, Informative)

Sparticus789 (2625955) | about 2 years ago | (#41099849)

Defragmenting SSDs is not recommended, as it causes unnecessary use of the storage transistors. The speed associated with a SSD is a result of any block of data being accessible at any time, no hardware movement required.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (5, Informative)

omnichad (1198475) | about 2 years ago | (#41100289)

Hope you mean TRIM and not defragmenting, which occurs when a file is deleted on an SSD, not when one is written. You don't defragment an SSD, as there's no gain at all.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (1)

reallocate (142797) | about 2 years ago | (#41100493)

I sure wouldn't buy a new MacBook to run Linux. But, I might switch this one to Linux if/when it can't handle a new OS X release.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (1)

SatiricComet (1337631) | about 2 years ago | (#41100575)

Isn't it obvious? Because you like the design of the hardware, and feel that the price difference is worth it. It's precisely the same reason someone would go buy a ThinkPad or similar upper-tier laptop and run Linux on it.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (3, Insightful)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | about 2 years ago | (#41100983)

Footprint, noise (or lack thereof), the ability to run all major OS (OSX, Windows, Linux) on the same machine, low power usage and nice looking sturdy construction. If you're going to be putting it on a desk the Mini is a nice little package.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (5, Informative)

0123456 (636235) | about 2 years ago | (#41099049)

I made the mistake of "upgrading" two Ubuntu 12.04 desktops to solid state drives, only to find the performance increase was trivial.

If a process isn't disk-intensive, an SSD will make no difference. If it's not seek intensive, a cheap SSD may actually be worse; if I remember correctly, sustained reads from my 'Green' hard drive are 80-100MB per second, whereas one of my SSDs only gets about 40MB per second.

The big benefit is reduced seek time, and a lesser benefit from faster sustained reads on the more modern and/or expensive SSDs. It won't make games run faster unless they're streaming from disk, or improve CPU-intensive 3D rendering, or anything much else that doesn't require a lot of disk seeks.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (1)

0123456 (636235) | about 2 years ago | (#41099093)

Oh, and that cheap and crappy SSD cut my Ubuntu netbook's boot time from about 45 seconds to about 15 seconds.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41099223)

If you're only getting 40MB/sec from you SSD, ask someone who knows what they're doing to fix your machine. SSD offers near instant parallel access and very fast read/write. You fscked up.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (1)

farble1670 (803356) | about 2 years ago | (#41099361)

If a process isn't disk-intensive, an SSD will make no difference

and almost all apps are relatively disk intensive (vs. CPU intensive) and hence IO bound. unless you are running something like BOINC that just crunches numbers.

on my mac laptop (without SSD), the only time i see the CPU go above ~20% is when i start eclipse, and that's with 16GB of RAM.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41100817)

Yes, eliminating the seek cost is a big benefit of SSDs and, for disk intensive activities, it does make a difference. But I've found the biggest benefit of SSDs is that they're always available. The power saving features that spin down traditional hard drives can be painful during everyday use. If your HD is in power-saving mode, it introduces a noticeable latency when you want to launch an app or save a file. The SSD is always in the ready state, so you never see that delay.

The other big benefit is not having to worry about damaging the drive if your computer gets bumped while the HD is spinning. Those sudden impact sensors helped the situation somewhat, but I've still found SSDs to be much more reliable in laptops where the drive doesn't operate in an entirely stationary manner.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (2)

idsfa (58684) | about 2 years ago | (#41099183)

Linux default config is optimized for spinning platters. You have to tweak a few things [howtogeek.com] to get the best performance.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | about 2 years ago | (#41099283)

noatime

Mounting filesystems with atime imposes a 15-20% penalty on IO due to increased writes. Troll the linux kernel lists for details.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (1)

hobarrera (2008506) | about 2 years ago | (#41099699)

Some applications might break (such as mutt), though it's generaly safe.
It should be noted that linux now uses relatime by default, which seems to be more efficiente than atime, but not break anything (like noatime).

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (1)

Richard_J_N (631241) | about 2 years ago | (#41099971)

Just double-check your BIOS: are you using the SSDs in the SATA native (AHCI) mode, or the old fashioned IDE mode? Also, are you using a SATA II (or III) rather than SATA I port? Remember that SSDs shine on random reads and writes: if you try to benchmark with something like hdparm -tT. you won't see much improvement.

Re:Why is Linux's SSD performance so terrible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41102875)

I believe you have to set some options in /etc/fstab if I remember correctly , search "ssd fstab" on Ubuntuforums, there's a solution I'm pretty sure.

I don't have an ssd, just remember seeing it somewhere,,,

Summary of tests? (5, Interesting)

GoNINzo (32266) | about 2 years ago | (#41098605)

15 pages of a review, with a poor summary of the results, results in the most number of page views. It would have been nice if they had some sort of summary or benchmark to compare the two against rather than individual tests spread across this. Perhaps a summary chart?

Also, comparing a well tuned video device driver versus the (usually) hastily written Linux one is a poor comparison.

I really doubt people choose a mac over Linux over this kind of test. There more solid reasons to choose one or the other.

Re:Summary of tests? (2)

butalearner (1235200) | about 2 years ago | (#41098673)

15 pages of a review, with a poor summary of the results, results in the most number of page views. It would have been nice if they had some sort of summary or benchmark to compare the two against rather than individual tests spread across this. Perhaps a summary chart?

Funny, I never bothered looking at the link, but from this comment alone it was obvious that it's a Phoronix article.

Re:Summary of tests? (1)

styrotech (136124) | about 2 years ago | (#41101519)

Funny, I never bothered looking at the link, but from this comment alone it was obvious that it's a Phoronix article.

I find you can usually pick them by the Slashdot article title alone.

If it is the latest Ubuntu benchmarked against anything else, or comparison benchmarks of some recent GPU on Linux or the latest Xorg drivers etc - 98 times out of 100 it will be Phoronix.

Nobody else ever bothers - or if they do, it never makes it to slashdot. Which is a shame, it would be nice to see those comparisons done properly.

Re:Summary of tests? (1)

farble1670 (803356) | about 2 years ago | (#41099391)

I really doubt people choose a mac over Linux over this kind of test.

i really doubt many people would be dull enough to pay top dollar for mac hardware just to run linux.

Re:Summary of tests? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41100129)

Well, Linus Torvalds is apparently "dull enough" to use a Macbook Air.

Re:Summary of tests? (1)

farble1670 (803356) | about 2 years ago | (#41100297)

and linus torvalds has the same sensibilities and motivations as the average consumer, right? sheesh.

also, did you know bill gates is running windows on his laptop? did you know sergey brin has an android phone? other shocking facts omitted for brevity.

Re:Summary of tests? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41103773)

and linus torvalds has the same sensibilities and motivations as the average consumer, right? sheesh.

If you'd ever bothered to read Torvalds' own words about why he often buys Macs, it boils down to "they're small, quiet, fast, and well built, and none of the crap available from PC vendors does all of these things at the same time". (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist.)

So what you're saying is that average consumers do not like small, quiet, fast, and high quality computers, I guess? What color is the sky in your world anyways?

Re:Summary of tests? (1)

wile_e_wonka (934864) | about 2 years ago | (#41099395)

comparing a well tuned video device driver versus the (usually) hastily written Linux one is a poor comparison.

Uhhhh, why? That was the point of the test. Same hardware, different software, what is the performance difference?

Re:Summary of tests? (1)

GoNINzo (32266) | about 2 years ago | (#41101245)

Uhhhh, why? That was the point of the test. Same hardware, different software, what is the performance difference?

Er, the point of the test was to generate page views. But yes, a graph showing the clear winners and losers at the end in the summary would have been helpful. At least with Tom's Hardware, they put a summary of the different pages.

Re:Summary of tests? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41099399)

15 pages of a review, with a poor summary of the results, results in the most number of page views.

Welcome to Phoronix!

Re:Summary of tests? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41100723)

What kind of a moron would voluntarily choose Linux over OS X? Seriously, you just spent good money on the best hardware for the job, why would you ruin that investment by not using the best software for the job? Linux is, by any measure you can come up with, a god awful, terrible operating system. Full of bugs, inconsistencies, and barely even supplying the minimum functionality expected of any modern OS. Fuck, even Windows is much better than Linux, and not surprisingly even Windows works better on a Mac than Linux. So again, why would you spend good money on good hardware and then put terrible software on it?

Think different.
Think BETTER.
Think Apple!

Re:Summary of tests? (1)

savuporo (658486) | about 2 years ago | (#41101867)

Also, comparing a well tuned video device driver versus the (usually) hastily written Linux one is a poor comparison.

I read this as : Linux is not for critics [penny-arcade.com] , because hastily written graphics drivers that mostly suck is what you get with it ?

tl;dc;sa (0, Troll)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 2 years ago | (#41098717)

Too long; don't care; Slashdotted anyway

Graphics (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41098981)

The graphics tests were run with Intel graphics. Linux results may have been more competitive if AMD or Nvidia graphics were used. Ubuntu 12.04 has gotten a large FPS jump in some games using AMD or Nvidia. I don't have the magazine in front of me right now.

Worthless... (5, Insightful)

Thinine (869482) | about 2 years ago | (#41099281)

Yet another worthless benchmarking from Phoronix (Moronix, amirite?). They switch between compilers, compiler versions, and even use Xcode itself for some of these comparisons, which make it essentially worthless. Add to that absolutely zero investigations of the reason for differences between the platforms (aside from the obvious mention of graphics drivers) and this is yet another piece of benchmark porn from a site dedicated to it.

Re:Worthless... (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | about 2 years ago | (#41104141)

They're the OSNews of the 2010 decade.

No shit sherlock (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41099627)

another ifanboy pretend benchmark

Wrong interpretation of the results, favors OSX (3, Informative)

tstrunk (2562139) | about 2 years ago | (#41100049)

If you read the whole article you will see that there are many computing intensive benchmarks, where Linux outperforms OSX by nearly a factor of two. Saying that there is no noticeable difference is simply wrong (see Page 11, Page 12).

Re:Wrong interpretation of the results, favors OSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41100165)

way to cherry pick results and ignore the overall scores.

Re:Wrong interpretation of the results, favors OSX (1)

tstrunk (2562139) | about 2 years ago | (#41100611)

way to cherry pick results and ignore the overall scores.

Let me read the article for you, if you don't believe me. Btw. there are no overall scores, there's just a biased conclusion.

Page 11 and 12 were simple examples, where there was a factor of two.
Page 1: no benchmarks
Page 2: Ubuntu is faster in three benchmarks, two ties
Page 3: Graphics, OSX wins
Page 4: Graphics, OSX wins
Page 5: Ubuntu loses in all SciMark benchmarks, wins in two others (once by a factor of 4)
Page 6: Ubuntu wins in Imagemagick (against 10.8) loses in Php compilation (but not by much)
Page 7: Ubuntu wins by a large margin twice, loses by a small margin twice
Page 8: Ubuntu wins by a large margin twice
Page 9: Ubuntu, tie, win, big win
Page 10: Graphics, OSX wins
Page 11: Tie, big win, big win, tie
Page 12: 4*Tie, big win
Page 13: Tie, win, win, lose/tie(12.04/12.10)
Page 14: Tie, big win, big win
Page 15: conclusions.

So let me tell you: All the "big wins" are DEVASTATING for OSX. They mean that you need to wait DOUBLE the time for your results.
I did not contest that OSX won graphics wise, but it is very clear that linux won the number crunching.

Re:Wrong interpretation of the results, favors OSX (2)

tlhIngan (30335) | about 2 years ago | (#41100477)

If you read the whole article you will see that there are many computing intensive benchmarks, where Linux outperforms OSX by nearly a factor of two. Saying that there is no noticeable difference is simply wrong (see Page 11, Page 12).

That makes sense. Mac OS X is a "microkernel" based system and does a lot stuff passing around Mach messages.

OS X is also inefficient in that each process gets its own address space - for a 32-bit process, that's 4GB of address space it can use all of (no 2/2 or 3/1 user/kernel split - every process, including the kernel gets it's own independent 4GB area). The problem with this is that in order to access application buffers (system calls, say), the kernel must map the buffer into its address space first, which is far more expensive than translating a pointer and dereferencing that.

OS X should be slower purely because it's a higher overhead OS.

Re:Wrong interpretation of the results, favors OSX (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | about 2 years ago | (#41104309)

The whole thing is a sham, but you're right: aside from the graphics drivers, Linux hands OS X its ass.

Look through it again (with adblock on, don't let those bastards have another cent of deceptively gained ad revenue), this time mentally excluding all of the synthetic benchmarks (which all seem to be grossly wrong on this review, in favor of OS X). What do you notice? Aside from a couple linear and potentially single core tasks, OS X gets trounced. They were probably paid for these modifications to skew towards OS X - or they had a hidden desire to favor OS X. That, or they wanted more page views and to do that, they needed a controversial article...

Stupid test (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41100211)

This is a stupid test, because the test should focus on completing certain tasks. The beauty of the Mac has always been, and still is, that even if you lose a few seconds here or there, you gain DAYS by not having to constantly struggle to get things to work. I remember spending a weekend trying to get my Windows PC to pair with my bluetooth phone. Then a friend paired it with his Mac in seconds. That was it - I switched and never looked back. I'll take losing a few seconds on some obscure benchmark in exchange for whole days.

Isn't Hybrid Video the Big MacBook Issue for Linux (1)

reallocate (142797) | about 2 years ago | (#41100581)

Isn't the biggest video hassle with Linux on MacBooks the hybrid graphics?

Rather than being able to switch back and forth, I'd prefer just disabling use of the onboard Intel graphics altogether, assuming fan control was well in hand.

Re:Isn't Hybrid Video the Big MacBook Issue for Li (1)

jo_ham (604554) | about 2 years ago | (#41100721)

Isn't the biggest video hassle with Linux on MacBooks the hybrid graphics?

Rather than being able to switch back and forth, I'd prefer just disabling use of the onboard Intel graphics altogether, assuming fan control was well in hand.

That will affect battery life though, assuming that matters to you. For day to day desktop tasks, the HD3000/HD4000 is more than adequate and sucks down much less power than the dedicated GPU. Were I running Linux on a hybrid GPU system I'd want it to be able to use the integrated GPU when the demand was low.

Re:Isn't Hybrid Video the Big MacBook Issue for Li (1)

reallocate (142797) | about 2 years ago | (#41101709)

Battery life isn't an issue for me. I'd rather have a stable system that defaulted to one or the other GPU than a flaky one that tried to do the automatic switch.

Re:Isn't Hybrid Video the Big MacBook Issue for Li (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41104347)

I think it's lame that they didn't use bumblebee to do the benchmarks. they mentioned it in a way by saying something to the effect of "in a seamless way", but readers didn't visit for a useability study they went to see how the two performed with the hardware. Unless something has happened to bumblebee recently than they could have easily switched between the onboard and discrete cards with merely a click or two and we would have had our damn results. i won't try to guess why they didn't...

Re:Isn't Hybrid Video the Big MacBook Issue for Li (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41102885)

I have an i5-based Dell laptop with hybrid graphics. Kubuntu handles it great.

OS X Mountain Lion was clearly superior (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41100663)

LOL. Lin-sux loses AGAIN. Time to give up, dipshits. Open source should be renamed open failure.

Think different.
Think BETTER.
Think Apple!

Re: OS X Mountain Lion was clearly superior (2)

jo_ham (604554) | about 2 years ago | (#41100735)

LOL. Lin-sux loses AGAIN. Time to give up, dipshits. Open source should be renamed open failure.

Think different.
Think BETTER.
Think Apple!

I think you're trying too hard, kid.

0/10.

Re: OS X Mountain Lion was clearly superior (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41101921)

Nice "comeback". I notice you didn't disagree with anything I said though. Very telling.

Think different.
Think BETTER.
Think Apple!

Re: OS X Mountain Lion was clearly superior (0)

jo_ham (604554) | about 2 years ago | (#41103093)

Nice "comeback". I notice you didn't disagree with anything I said though. Very telling.

Think different.
Think BETTER.
Think Apple!

You forgot to log in kid.

As for "not disagreeing" with what you said, I didn't think it was necessary since you're obviously trolling.

For the record, I think Open Source is great and use many different open source programs from a number of different sources. I also run Linux one one of my machines, so I wouldn't want Linux developers to "give up". I certainly don't think Linux developers are "dipshits" - at least, not all of them (I don't know them all personally).

As far as "thinking better", there are some things I think Apple does better than other companies, and some things I think it does much worse, and your attempt to create a binary position where only one company has the "right way" is hilariously childish.

The only telling thing about this exchange is that you're clearly following the conversation, despite not being logged in so you must be actively checking back for responses to your AC trolling. That's... a little pathetic.

If you log in, then slashdot will send you an email when someone replies to your comment - it's really convenient! You should try it sometime.

Lots of graphs, worthless analysis (3, Insightful)

CadentOrange (2429626) | about 2 years ago | (#41100981)

The compilation benchmarks are not comparable as the compilers are different, not only in version number but in architecture! OS X ships with llvm-gcc, which is a different compiler from GCC. Think of it a LLVM pretending to be GCC (accepting GCC options, etc) for backward compatibility. This would explain the huge discrepancies between the results of the compilation benchmarks

Disk performance is another thorny issue. The Postmark benchmark shows Ubuntu 12.04 being 3x faster than OS X 10.8 (246 tps vs 80 tps), yet the postgresql database benchmark shows OS X to be 3x faster than Ubuntu. No explanation is even attempted. Why? Readers would like to know! How can OS X be faster at a database benchmark when a raw disk benchmark shows it to be a lot slower than Ubuntu?! Perhaps there's something screwy with the configuration of Postgres on Ubuntu? Does this mean that OS X is *THE* choice for hosting busy databases? My suspicion is that this is due to fsync (http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/static/runtime-config-wal.html). If fsync is enabled, the database waits for the transaction log to be flushed to disk every time a transaction is committed. It's basically down to defaults, and who knows what the default values are for Postgresql on OS X vs Ubuntu?

The graphs raise far too many questions that are not addressed. Many of them should have raised warning flags, like the one about disk performance vs actual database performance. As such, the results are thoroughly suspect and no reasonable conclusions can be drawn. Pity, because they clearly have the kit just not the knowhow.

Re:Lots of graphs, worthless analysis (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41101433)

Pity, because they clearly have the kit just not the knowhow.

I've been running clang on linux since well before Apple bundled it with XCode (an IDE I find unusable anyway). Since a database can never be faster on a microkernel based OS, we know the benchmark is flawed without going into specifics. It's not knowhow that's lacking, they're utterly clueless.

BTW: Anyone tell me if I'm correct in the assumption that Apple have an OpenGL driver for intel graphics chipsets while linux is falling back to MESA on the CPU?

Dropping OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41101081)

Hi, I used Macs since the G3s. To me, my silver iMac feels slower and slowe with each OS X update. They seem to also add features I don't want, along with making the interface different from app, to finder, to Apple app, etc.

So recently I was trying Linux distrobs via PC emulator on my Mac.

So how about my case? Running OS X or a slim, but very usable modern Linux?

thanks!

Apple is heading toward oblivion. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41102587)

Apple is heading toward the abyss of mediocrity with its
plans to force all its devices to mimic the iOS devices,
EVEN WHEN the devices are quite physically dissimilar
so it doesn't make sense to do it.

This more than anything else will force me to consider
both non-Apple hardware and non-Apple software for
my next purchases. And I strongly suspect I am not unique
in having these preferences.

Now do this... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41102607)

Put OSX and Ubuntu on a PC based system then compare, or better yet: compare the averages. This would be a more accurate comparison.

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