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Would You Open Your Home To a Hacker – For Free?

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the are-you-including-stock-options? dept.

Google 118

coondoggie writes "What do you get when you mix access to Google's ultra-fast fiber network and old fashioned grass roots business ideas? Well, in this case you'd get someone living on your couch for free for three months. This week a group calling itself the 'Kansas City Hacker Homes' launched a program that calls on the good folks of Kansas City to open up their homes to entrepreneurs and developers who would live and work there for a period of three months, rent and utility free. They have to buy their own food."

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First (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122177)

Bitches!
 
  -- Ethanol-fueled

No (1)

xclr8r (658786) | about 2 years ago | (#41122185)

However, if I had some type of mother in law house/suite not being used then maybe.

Re:No (1)

joocemann (1273720) | about 2 years ago | (#41122327)

The pile of mountain dew cans they would leave behind is probably gonna be worth a couple hundred bucks. Nevermind it is on your living room floor.

Since they will, at least, buy their own food, its like getting free money back!

No. "Computer Enthusiast," Yes. "Hacker," No (-1, Flamebait)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | about 2 years ago | (#41122417)

Sorry, proto-geeks: Language Evolves. "Hacker" now equals "Guy Who Does Bad Things With Computer." And really, no amount of slashdot user-submitted headlines and sympathetic editors is going to change that. You'd have better luck returning "geek" to it's original meaning. (Look it up.)

Re:No. "Computer Enthusiast," Yes. "Hacker," No (1)

Score Whore (32328) | about 2 years ago | (#41122567)

Mmmm. Chicken...

Re:No. "Computer Enthusiast," Yes. "Hacker," No (2)

joocemann (1273720) | about 2 years ago | (#41122947)

No. Hackers hack. That doesn't mean it is bad. It sounds like you've redefined the tem, but a lot of people would disagree.

The common old terminology, where a programmer or writer were called 'hackers' is definitely replaced with the group of people that bypass security in pursuit of knowledge... but I don't agree that the common conception is that they are all doing bad things.

Re:No. "Computer Enthusiast," Yes. "Hacker," No (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41123173)

Well, try explaining the term "hacker" to the laymen. Their first impression of the term will be negative, thanks to the mass media/ culture.

Re:No. "Computer Enthusiast," Yes. "Hacker," No (1)

joocemann (1273720) | about 2 years ago | (#41124469)

When I explain complex facts to laymen, I don't try, I do it fully. I carefully walk them through the facts from their current knowledge to the new knowledge. Given clear communication and rational argument, most people are receptive and learn - fundamentalism is largely to blame for one not accepting the knowledge.

Re:No. "Computer Enthusiast," Yes. "Hacker," No (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 2 years ago | (#41126041)

Mention Windows to the layman and he will think it is the only OS in the world. What is your point?

Re:No. "Computer Enthusiast," Yes. "Hacker," No (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 2 years ago | (#41123881)

Hackers are people who make furniture with an axe. Let's have none of these neological redefinitions!

Re:No. "Computer Enthusiast," Yes. "Hacker," No (2)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 2 years ago | (#41126033)

"Sorry, proto-geeks: Language Evolves."

We don't mind that language evolves. We just wish that you would follow suit!

Hint: Language doesn't necessarily discard valid definitions when it evolves, and it certainly didn't in this case.

Sure, you can use the word to refer to crackers, but it remains a subset definition. Just as Jack The Ripper is believed to have been both a surgeon and a serial killer, referring to him as a surgeon doesn't mean that all surgeons are serial killers.

When people say a hacker broke into a system, that hacker is also a cracker. Just because the general populous doesn't understand this doesn't mean that we don't.

Re:No (1)

dj245 (732906) | about 2 years ago | (#41123091)

The pile of mountain dew cans they would leave behind is probably gonna be worth a couple hundred bucks. Nevermind it is on your living room floor.

Since they will, at least, buy their own food, its like getting free money back!

That would be funny if every state had a bottle deposit program. Most don't. Kansas does not. Even if we were talking about Kansas CIty, Missouri, they don't have a program either. Best you can hope for is scrap value (maybe $1) or recycling them for free.

cool idea (1)

glebovitz (202712) | about 2 years ago | (#41122187)

for bootstrapping kansas city's high tech industry

Re:cool idea (4, Insightful)

perpenso (1613749) | about 2 years ago | (#41122423)

for bootstrapping kansas city's high tech industry

How? Just how many startups require ultra-fast fiber at their development site? Wherever the startup hosts their public server(s) may already have such a connection.

Re:cool idea (1)

fa2k (881632) | about 2 years ago | (#41122547)

Just how many startups require ultra-fast fiber at their development site? Wherever the startup hosts their public server(s) may already have such a connection.

It's more about not having to worry about connectivity. When I do development work, I hate it when my SSH sessions time out after 40 or so minutes because I have a crappy NAT router at home. A lot of hackers will be attracted to having a connection they can trust. 1 Gbit vs. 100 Mbit will probably not make a huge difference, but being able to download VM images in seconds is one advantage.

Re:cool idea (2)

perpenso (1613749) | about 2 years ago | (#41122587)

And there won't be a crappy NAT router between you and the fiber?

Re:cool idea (1)

fa2k (881632) | about 2 years ago | (#41123447)

Sure, it would be a little crazy to not use NAT. Best case would be if Google provided a separate fibre to ethernet interface and router, then the "hacker" could have his own network and get a public IP address. Better for everyone involved. More likely is that Google provides a fibre interface / router combo and everyone has to use that. My thought was that any router both 1) approved by Google and 2) spec'd for 1 Gbit should be good enough to handle anything..

Re:cool idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122953)

But what speed and how congested is it at the other end and all hops in-between? My employer has two Tier providers linked at 10Gbps (well there may be 3, but I absolutely know of two). Depending on what server I choose, my speed on speedtest.net ranges from 10Mbps to 380Mbps. Obviously how many people are utilizing the network at my employer, plus all the traffic and capacity of all links in between me and the end point can really take a toll.

(Heck, even moving a VM image from one cluster in the building to another cluster in another building we have which is also linked via 10Gbps fiber takes a few minutes since the RAM on the VM is so high)

Hell no (-1, Flamebait)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | about 2 years ago | (#41122205)

This is the same pool you'd be drawing from:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57495650-83/sexism-and-the-single-hacker-defcons-feminist-moment/ [cnet.com]

In general its a bad idea to open your house for a stranger, but especially with this subgroup.

Re:Hell no (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122241)

Every claim in that article has already been discredited repeatedly by every party involved except two people. It was all the work of a liberal arts student trying to start a movement. "Hackers" are no different from any other group in the world.

Re:Hell no (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41125173)

So Freetards want me to work so stuff can be "Free'?

When will you Freetards understand that someone has to pay?

Buy your own food, candles and generate your own electricity and you're welcome. There's a bucket in the yard for washing if you know what that is.

Re:Hell no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41125923)

That has to be the worst ideas I've read. Namecalling and threats of violence, treating it like some kind of 'party foul'? The people who are going to be persuaded by cards aren't likely to be the kind of person who gropes someone from behind. Get security to throw them out and make sure they stay out, or call the damn cops.

Re:Hell no (1)

crutchy (1949900) | more than 2 years ago | (#41127139)

i'd let one of them stay... in exchange for finding all the security holes in my network and server

Don't think they know the meaning of room & bo (5, Informative)

rolfwind (528248) | about 2 years ago | (#41122221)

What you'll be responsible for:
Room & board
Utilities ... ... ...
Buy their own food

Someone tell them what the "board" in room & board means, I don't think they know.

Re:Don't think they know the meaning of room & (4, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 2 years ago | (#41122255)

This is America, chukco. We know what "Room and Board" is - that's what happens when they lock you up at Gitmo.

Really, please try and keep up.

Re:Don't think they know the meaning of room & (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122271)

It means you'll be required to listen to the hacker droning on about his amazing Instagram clone and his love of Star Wars.

Re:Don't think they know the meaning of room & (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122305)

Why do you always have to knock my Leiagram project?!

Re:Don't think they know the meaning of room & (1)

Penurious Penguin (2687307) | about 2 years ago | (#41122749)

In Kansas, the hosts are autotrophs and damned well expect others to be too. If guests want to engage in unnecessary self-munificence, they can pay for it on their own.

Re:Don't think they know the meaning of room & (1)

mysidia (191772) | about 2 years ago | (#41123465)

Someone tell them what the "board" in room & board means, I don't think they know.

So they're saying there is room and board, as long as the guest pays for the food..

That could mean the boarder has to buy all the food, and someone in the household prepares it for those that live there and the boarder

Re:Don't think they know the meaning of room & (1)

flimflammer (956759) | about 2 years ago | (#41124275)

That's really not what room and board means, though. The reality of it is the guy just didn't understand the meaning completely and thought it meant "a place to live" rather than "a place to live and meals" or revised his idea to exclude food and forgot to take the "board" out.

Sweet! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122231)

I've been wanting a different basement to spend my winters at.

Litigation stifles Innovation. (1, Offtopic)

geekmux (1040042) | about 2 years ago | (#41122257)

So, care to tell me who pays the lawyers fees when said "entrepreneur" injures themselves on your private property and decides to sue?

This is one example. You think anyone is gonna step right on up to the plate on all the other bullshit we have to thank our litigious society for?

Sure, I'll allow them in my home...as soon as they "innovate" a way around my liability.

Yes, yet again, litigation stifles innovation...even before it can start.

Re:Litigation stifles Innovation. (5, Informative)

SunTzuWarmaster (930093) | about 2 years ago | (#41122419)

This post removes moderation effort in this thread.

You can issue a very simple document saying that the person waives their right to sue in the event of injury. Cave owners do it all of the time when cavers wish to enter their property. For example:
http://www.caves.org/grotto/jamesrivergrotto/JRGCaveTripReleaseForm.PDF [caves.org]

Rental property does it:
http://monkeyshines4kids.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Monkey-Shines-4-Kids-LLC-General-Liability-Release.pdf [monkeyshines4kids.com]

and you can get a free one from nolo here:
https://www.rocketlawyer.com/secure/interview/new.aspx?id=154&utm_source=103&try=1&v=3&gclid=CPuF3peHg7ICFQmpnQodiCwAcw#q1 [rocketlawyer.com]

Shut up and start helping people.

Note: I have put my money where my mouth is. I live with two foreign PhD students who pay drastically reduced rent. They are also the nicest people people that I have lived with.

Re:Litigation stifles Innovation. (1)

timholman (71886) | about 2 years ago | (#41122583)

Shut up and start helping people.

Note: I have put my money where my mouth is. I live with two foreign PhD students who pay drastically reduced rent. They are also the nicest people people that I have lived with.

"Helping people" and "behaving sensibly to protect yourself and your property" are not mutually exclusive goals. I believe in helping people to, but that doesn't mean I invite total strangers to live in my home, or pick up hitchhikers at 2 a.m. in the morning.

Those two Ph.D. students you live with were vetted by the university that admitted them, and by the government agency that issued their student visas. That is a far cry from inviting some person into your home with no credentials beyond he chooses to tell you.

And as for liability waivers that you download from the web, I'll just pass on what a lawyer friend once told me: "Free legal advice is worth every penny you pay for it."

Re:Litigation stifles Innovation. (1)

SunTzuWarmaster (930093) | about 2 years ago | (#41122669)

The goals of "helping" and "protecting" can both be fulfilled at once.
You are correct that the students have been thoroughly vetted (foreign Government, US Government, State college, and personally).
To be fair, I did not use a freely downloadable template, and instead opted for a lawyer-produced one from a lawyer connection (still free).

In the "open your home to a hacker that lives on your couch" model, I would think that the homeowner would not follow it altruistically. If I were in the position, it would involve background research (a PI?) and either a share of the profits from the business that they are starting, a benefit from the services they provide, an amount of chores performed about the house, or, of course, rent. And, in nearly a decade of living with roommates, I would NEVER, and I mean NEVER live with someone without meeting them. You only make that mistake once.

Re:Litigation stifles Innovation. (1)

TwineLogic (1679802) | about 2 years ago | (#41123577)

Wait, you talked to a lawyer, and the lawyer told you the only good legal advice is the kind you pay for? Sounds unbiased to me!

Re:Litigation stifles Innovation. (2)

jittles (1613415) | about 2 years ago | (#41122991)

This post removes moderation effort in this thread.

You can issue a very simple document saying that the person waives their right to sue in the event of injury. Cave owners do it all of the time when cavers wish to enter their property.

I'd be willing to bet that your contract there isn't even enforceable in a lot of areas. People can sue you for damages that occur to them while they are breaking into your property, stealing your stuff, or otherwise causing mischief and mayhem to the person they are suing. And they'll win, too, if it can be shown that you should have resolved the problem that they are suing you over. You can sign those contracts all day long, but still sue the caving company under the right circumstances. Same with the home owner. You'd have to be an idiot to do this with people you do not know, and have no way of trusting.

At least your foreign PH.D Students are unlikely to know their way around the local legal system, and are likely to be responsible and caring people. For all you know that hacker that is moving in with you just got kicked out of a homeless shelter for assaulting another inhabitant.

After hurricane Katrina, a brother of mine let some refugees stay in his house in Texas. These people stole things from him, damaged his property (the physical structure), and ruined furniture and bedding. I'd trust these Kansas City hackers less than a refugee.

Re:Litigation stifles Innovation. (0)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 2 years ago | (#41123483)

Your brother had never visited New Orleans? He learned a valuable lesson. One less democrat.

Re:Litigation stifles Innovation. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41124363)

I'd be willing to bet that your contract there isn't even enforceable in a lot of areas. People can sue you for damages that occur to them while they are breaking into your property, stealing your stuff, or otherwise causing mischief and mayhem to the person they are suing. And they'll win, too, if it can be shown that you should have resolved the problem that they are suing you over. You can sign those contracts all day long, but still sue the caving company under the right circumstances. Same with the home owner. You'd have to be an idiot to do this with people you do not know, and have no way of trusting.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of lawsuits you're talking about. The issue you're describing is where someone breaks into your house and you otherwise do something to them that would be considered "excessive" over what their legal punishment would have been for the crime. For example, someone breaks into your house, you catch them and stab them 12 times all over their body. Unless they were assaulting you (letting you plead self defense) then that is excessive. Merely breaking into your property does not give you the right to butcher them or otherwise destroy their life (brain damage, etc)

This is why they say if you are going to take out a weapon in these situations, shoot to kill.

These liability contracts are completely valid. If they hurt themselves they are shit out of luck to collect unless you were seriously negligent and caused them serious injury (dropping a knife/brick/whatever on their head or something).

Re:Litigation stifles Innovation. (1)

geekmux (1040042) | more than 2 years ago | (#41126701)

This post removes moderation effort in this thread.

You can issue a very simple document saying that the person waives their right to sue in the event of injury. Cave owners do it all of the time when cavers wish to enter their property. For example: http://www.caves.org/grotto/jamesrivergrotto/JRGCaveTripReleaseForm.PDF [caves.org]

Rental property does it: http://monkeyshines4kids.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Monkey-Shines-4-Kids-LLC-General-Liability-Release.pdf [monkeyshines4kids.com]

and you can get a free one from nolo here: https://www.rocketlawyer.com/secure/interview/new.aspx?id=154&utm_source=103&try=1&v=3&gclid=CPuF3peHg7ICFQmpnQodiCwAcw#q1 [rocketlawyer.com]

Shut up and start helping people.

Note: I have put my money where my mouth is. I live with two foreign PhD students who pay drastically reduced rent. They are also the nicest people people that I have lived with.

Thanks for the papers and links. Too bad no one shows up in front of a judge with just papers in their hand, especially with a multi-million personal injury dollar lawsuit at stake.

But in the off chance that you do, then prepare for an immediate recess to be called, while the judge and the opposing legal team visit the restroom, to proceed to laugh and wipe their ass with your "defense".

My point about legal costs still stands. Yet again, who wins in that scenario. Sure as hell ain't me, regardless of outcome.

And don't bitch at me. I sure as hell didn't write the rules. I'm simply a bit more of a realist when it comes to our legal system and how screwed up it really is.

Re:Litigation stifles Innovation. (1)

turkeyfeathers (843622) | about 2 years ago | (#41123203)

Not to mention what happens when Mr Hacker uses your ultra-fast fiber to download everything on PirateBay to his hard drive and the lawyers track it to your door...

Not a very smart idea for the average homeowner (4, Interesting)

timholman (71886) | about 2 years ago | (#41122261)

While I can admire the idealism behind this concept, from a practical viewpoint it leaves much to be desired.

For example, will Kansas City Hacker Homes bond and insure the hackers, so as to indemnify the homeowners against theft or lawsuits from their "guests"? Very doubtful, which means the burden falls on the homeowner (and his/her insurance policy).

What happens to the homeowner if the hacker decides to skirt the law (e.g. breaking into someone's network, taking drugs, or downloading copyrighted material) while living in the house? What if he runs up hundreds of dollars on your cable bill watching pay-per-view movies? How do you get your money back? Can you even evict him on the spot, or will local laws give him "squatter's rights" for a limited time, as they often do for non-paying renters?

You wouldn't really know anything about this person in your house, besides what he told you. Will Kansas City Hacker Homes provide you with a background check of the hacker's criminal and civil record? Again, highly unlikely.

So basically you're rolling the dice with some total stranger, taking all the risk, and with no promise of getting anything in return. Not a smart move for any homeowner.

Re:Not a very smart idea for the average homeowner (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 2 years ago | (#41122323)

So basically you're rolling the dice with some total stranger, taking all the risk, and with no promise of getting anything in return. Not a smart move for any homeowner.

So, basically it's just like renting a room to anyone else, except they're knowledgeable about technology...

Hell, I've even figured out how to solve the food issue: Feed them the previous hacker.

Re:Not a very smart idea for the average homeowner (4, Informative)

nedlohs (1335013) | about 2 years ago | (#41122347)

And they don't pay rent, which makes it a little different from "just like renting a room to anyone else".

Re:Not a very smart idea for the average homeowner (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 2 years ago | (#41125767)

Well then accept a rent of a dollar per month.

No. I have a contract with my renter and... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122357)

I get to meet the renter before they sign and get them to sign all sorts of other stuff and I have various legal protections (and responsibilities) as a land lord.

As a real land lord I also get *paid* to take on the risk of having someone live in my property as well as first & last month's rent to cover cleaning and normal damages.

The only thing you got right was the food situation options.

Re:Not a very smart idea for the average homeowner (1)

perpenso (1613749) | about 2 years ago | (#41122381)

So, basically it's just like renting a room to anyone else, except they're knowledgeable about technology...

Some of the legal concerns addressed by the GP will be covered in the lease the renter will sign, thereby offering the landlord some protection. Plus part of the rent goes to buying insurance, further protecting the landlord.

Re:Not a very smart idea for the average homeowner (1)

hawk (1151) | about 2 years ago | (#41122653)

>Plus part of the rent goes to buying insurance, further protecting the landlord.

With any insurance company I've ever met, part of zero doesn't buy much coverage . . .

hawk

Re:Not a very smart idea for the average homeowner (1)

perpenso (1613749) | about 2 years ago | (#41122681)

>Plus part of the rent goes to buying insurance, further protecting the landlord.

With any insurance company I've ever met, part of zero doesn't buy much coverage . . .

hawk

Re-read the thread. "Rent" is referring to traditional renters who sign a lease and make payments, its not referring to the visiting hackers.

Re:Not a very smart idea for the average homeowner (1)

Desler (1608317) | about 2 years ago | (#41125481)

So, basically it's just like renting a room to anyone else, except they're knowledgeable about technology...

And they aren't paying rent.

Fine Print (4, Funny)

bobstreo (1320787) | about 2 years ago | (#41122315)

Should also have a Bathing Clause.

Re:Fine Print (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122393)

Should also have a Bathing Clause.

Not if they expect the program to lure hackers...

Re:Fine Print (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122657)

Count me out! --RMS

HAHAHAHA.....no (3, Insightful)

brillow (917507) | about 2 years ago | (#41122325)

Why would anyone do this? Why would I invite a stranger to live in my house for free?

Also, what kind of startup are you doing where you need incredibly high download speeds? Seriously. There is nothing you could do which would be using such large files that this is an issue and be processable on a laptop.

Re:HAHAHAHA.....no (2)

cowboy76Spain (815442) | about 2 years ago | (#41122387)

My thoughts exactly. What a hacker needs to succeed should be in his/her brain; a network connection is needed but bandwidth is not the bottleneck.

Unless by hackers someone means "Kim Dotcom wannabes".

Re:HAHAHAHA.....no (3, Interesting)

timholman (71886) | about 2 years ago | (#41122421)

Also, what kind of startup are you doing where you need incredibly high download speeds? Seriously. There is nothing you could do which would be using such large files that this is an issue and be processable on a laptop.

Excellent point. Ultra-high bandwidth would certainly be useful for startups specializing in (for example) virtual / augmented reality applications, virtual environments, or remote sensing / control. But a guy sitting on your couch in his dirty underwear is not going to be doing stuff like that on his laptop.

On the other hand, there are many not-so-nice things he could do with that extra bandwidth, e.g. download/host lots of torrented movies/music/pr0n, manage attacks and exploits against remote systems, etc. And guess whose door the authorities will come knocking on if he chooses to do so?

Re:HAHAHAHA.....no (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122481)

Also, what kind of startup are you doing where you need incredibly high download speeds?

Porn reviews. Seriously.

Re:HAHAHAHA.....no (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41123753)

Maybe good for people who need some help unwedging their computers?

Re:HAHAHAHA.....no (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41123897)

If I can do the following I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Background checks
Credit check
3 month room lease agreement
Deny people based on the project. I'd want them working on something I personally thing is cool. We don't need anymore instagram clones or another pinterest.

I'd get the following benefits.

Meet some interesting people.
Get to invest in something that might be worth while
Help a fellow entrepreneur achieve their dream a little bit easier than I had it
Get to mentor a kid about the business side of his future business. Something they'll really need. I doubt they understand about incorporating, cpas, hiring people, and all that other non-fun stuff.

I could list more things, but I'll leave it at that. With all of the precautions in place above it really should limit the damage that could possibly be caused by the person. Someone that's early 20s and has never been arrested probably isn't going to steal from you. If they have no credit or just slight dings (medical bills etc) the chances from them stealing from you go down as well.

--wmbetts

Re:HAHAHAHA.....no (1)

swillden (191260) | more than 2 years ago | (#41127061)

Also, what kind of startup are you doing where you need incredibly high download speeds?

I think it's more likely that the goal is incredibly high speeds up and down. Think about Google's beginning, hosted in a dorm at Stanford. They needed to be able to download the whole Internet, and to serve searches to everyone. They needed extremely fast Internet service, but they also had no idea how to make any money at it, so being able to get essentially free very high-speed (for the time) Internet was essential to being able to start their business.

It's worse than that... (3, Funny)

Troyusrex (2446430) | about 2 years ago | (#41122365)

Free would be a huge step up! Since I use Windows I am, in fact, inviting hackers into my system every day and paying for the privilege.

Re:It's worse than that... (1)

ericloewe (2129490) | about 2 years ago | (#41122503)

Free would be a huge step up! Since I use Windows XP I am, in fact, inviting hackers into my system every day and paying for the privilege.

FTFY

Re:It's worse than that... (0)

MacGyver2210 (1053110) | about 2 years ago | (#41122651)

XP/Windows in general is only insecure if you use it in an insecure manner.

I am on XP, because Win7 uses double the ram just to display the desktop, and programs I compile on 7 don't work on previous versions of Windows.

Do your worst, hackers.

Re:It's worse than that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41123749)

and programs I compile on 7 don't work on previous versions of Windows.

Your build system sucks.

Re:It's worse than that... (1)

Pseudonym Authority (1591027) | more than 2 years ago | (#41126403)

because Win7 uses double the ram just to display the desktop

That's called caching, to speed things up in case you need them. If you need the RAM and it's not available, whatever is cached will be freed and pipes.scr can have it.

If you don't want Windows to use the RAM available and want it to sit idle, then you can open your computer, pull out a chip of RAM, and put that chip in a drawer until you need it.

Re:It's worse than that... (1)

TwineLogic (1679802) | about 2 years ago | (#41123615)

Are you suggesting that versions of Windows subsequent to XP are secure? I ask because that assertion would be: False.

Re:It's worse than that... (1)

ericloewe (2129490) | about 2 years ago | (#41124007)

So what's safer? OS X?

Re:It's worse than that... (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | more than 2 years ago | (#41126085)

Selectric.

Mom's basement (1)

Chemisor (97276) | about 2 years ago | (#41122379)

Isn't this what parents are for?

Why not just a co-located server? (4, Insightful)

GrandCow (229565) | about 2 years ago | (#41122403)

This program is supposed to get entrepreneurs and developers access to high speed fiber, I understand that; but why do they have to live there? Not that I'd allow anyone onto my network either way, but if the end result is getting some of these awesome startups on the net with a good connection, I'd be a lot more willing to let them put a server in an out-of-the-way place in my house. I don't ask to set up a bed in my data co-location center, why do they need a bed in these houses? They can even have access to their hardware whenever they want, provided it's supervised and at an appropriate time. Also, my electricity isn't free. I'd sure like some small kind of cut from the profits (assuming they make a profit sometime).

Re:Why not just a co-located server? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122485)

"Your Google Fiber account is for your use and the reasonable use of your guests".

Sounds like it's work just fine.

As for the server clause, that sucks.

I guess no skype, hosting of an internet game, p2p. They are both clients and servers.

Re:Why not just a co-located server? (1)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about 2 years ago | (#41123941)

maybe you'd want to make a startup based on the idea that the consumer does have fiber at home. all kind of new stuff becomes possible, the latency is lower because there's no modem, the upload bandwith is increased a lot, maybe 100x.

the exact applications of this, we maybe don't know all the new scenarios. but it may involve a windows PC with 3D acceleration and sound, or a linux desktop with a 1080p webcam, etc. You can't really test or demonstrate your concept with the end user gear locked in a colo center.

if only Kansas City wasn't total shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122461)

Why would I want to move from NYC to Kansas City? To hang out with a bunch of moron Republicans in the middle of no where? Yeah, I'm gonna pass, thanks tho.

Re:if only Kansas City wasn't total shit (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | about 2 years ago | (#41123727)

Kansas City always votes democrat, Most of the larger cities in the midwest do. Its the suburbs/rural areas that vote Republican, FYI.

Plus Kansas City has much, much, much better barbecue than NYC.

Re:if only Kansas City wasn't total shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41123929)

Kansas City BBQ is awesome. It's one of the only reasons for most people to visit imo. If you ever get a chance to stop while traveling through stop and eat some.

I live in Kansas City (5, Informative)

crazyprogrammer (412543) | about 2 years ago | (#41122463)

I live in Kansas City although not in one of the first phase of fiber hoods. On a local forum we had a discussion about this site already and I brought up the terms of service for residential fiber service.

...Unless you have a written agreement with Google Fiber permitting you do so, you should not host any type of server using your Google Fiber connection...

... or use your Google Fiber account to provide commercial services to third parties (including, but not limited to, selling Internet access to third parties).

and here [google.com] is the page containing those rules. So without a written agreement you can't run a server. The "providing commercial services" part most likely means no sharing your gigabit connection, not "you can't work from home". I don't think google wants their residential fiber service to be used to start the next facebook.com. They want those entrepreneurs to pay a more for the business service. Whenever google fiber was first announced and what we heard on the local news was something to the effect of it's going to be an experiment by google to see what people will do with a giga-bit connection. At first that sounded like (to me anyway) that they would let us run our own web servers from home, but now it looks more like they just want to offer a web browsing only service for residential customers(like Time Warner).
 
My question to anyone who has an answer: How could someone use google fiber residential service to get their startup off the ground without breaking the terms of service?

Re:I live in Kansas City (1)

turkeyfeathers (843622) | about 2 years ago | (#41123237)

Whenever google fiber was first announced and what we heard on the local news was something to the effect of it's going to be an experiment by google to see what people will do with a giga-bit connection. At first that sounded like (to me anyway) that they would let us run our own web servers from home, but now it looks more like they just want to offer a web browsing only service for residential customers (like Time Warner).

What they want is to collect hard data on how much it costs to really run a network, so they can use the data to support their network neutrality efforts. This is one of the times that they aren't being evil.

Re:I live in Kansas City (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | more than 2 years ago | (#41126107)

Rights, that's why they are restricting your ability to run a server...

Re:I live in Kansas City (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41127153)

Will Google care if you violate IT? BTW Larry Page hates the no server clause. The lawyers added that in case someone abuse it big time (big data centers). Same story on the 7-year free 5 Mbps Internet. The lawyers say Google cannot commit forever even if that is the plan. Google doesn't plan to go after servers.

Hell NO! They'd slow down my torrents! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41122483)

Hell NO! They'd slow down my legal ISO torrents, rip off my 5TB music collection on the SAN and, if history is any guide, they'd start to smell after 3 days!

Hell No!

If they want to pay for the ISP and let me have 50% of their bandwidth, access to all their games, pron, and sports car, perhaps we can talk.

I'd need to kick out my 22 yr old, CS major, son to make room. Thinking about this a little more, it sounds like a great idea - I might get more of my bandwidth back after that other slacker is finally gone.

missing the point (1)

uniquegeek (981813) | about 2 years ago | (#41122513)

Allow them in my house? Maybe. Allow them to use my internet connection, which I subscribe to under my own name? Hell no.

Offensive Chutzpah (1)

Improv (2467) | about 2 years ago | (#41122541)

So you get a leech living in your house that should be able to get a job paying for an apartment, and get no personal benefit. No equity, no repayment, nothing. Who would be so daft as to sign this agreement?

Re:Offensive Chutzpah (1)

stephanruby (542433) | about 2 years ago | (#41122591)

Give the kid a break, he's just trying to move back with his parents now that he heard they're getting Google fiber.

Let then hole up in an empty prison cell (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 2 years ago | (#41122597)

Three hots and a cot. Who could ask for more? Really, what kind of crap is this? Give Google free stuff, and get very little in return. Fucking companies are blackmailing the country into reducing their taxes to nothing with their constant threats of relocating.

Re:Let then hole up in an empty prison cell (1)

MacGyver2210 (1053110) | about 2 years ago | (#41122693)

It is profoundly clear you have no idea what this article, discussion, or any prior comments are about. It is unlikely you actually read any part of this article/discussion.

Your signature is about the only thing that applies to a hacker sleeping on someone's couch to borrow free internet provided *BY* Google to a resident. This has nothing to do with companies ripping people off, and in fact, it is about companies providing a valuable commodity to people for free.

Re:Let then hole up in an empty prison cell (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 2 years ago | (#41124929)

It's bogus and it's exploitation. And the article said nothing I didn't already know. The comments in the link were more enlightening. Bit feel free to carry on with your crass assumptions.

Let me reply with an observation (1)

Casandro (751346) | about 2 years ago | (#41122665)

I've been at one of the smaller hacker camps in Europe recently. There were literally stacks of notebooks lying around. Not a single one got stolen or damaged or whatever.

Of course I cannot speak for US hackers, I have read articles praising DRM in 2600, so it might be different there.

Re:Let me reply with an observation (1)

TwineLogic (1679802) | about 2 years ago | (#41123635)

I have read articles praising DRM in 2600

What article was that? I have a feeling you misunderstood some legally circumscribed sarcasm.

I might be wrong (1)

Casandro (751346) | about 2 years ago | (#41123779)

I think it was Spring 2011 "Why I like E-Books".
There's also the case of hackers working for the military in the US. This is seen as something highly immoral in Germany. You just don't do that by accident or if you are a sociopath.

There's even the idea that if you have some, let's say IT security company, you're better off not having a customer than a governmental customer. Since when you are not having a customer you can at least search for customers, whereas if you have a governmental, perhaps even military customer, it will be much harder to get other customers.

On the bright side... (1)

Orphis (1356561) | about 2 years ago | (#41122869)

If it's already open, they won't look into how to break in and lose interest!

Only if I would've done it anyways (1)

davidwr (791652) | about 2 years ago | (#41123099)

If we are talking about high-school exchange students who happen to be able to put that fiber to good use, or "get back on your feet" housing programs run by established non-profits who screen their clients and one of them happens to be a geek, well, maybe.

But in the case of college students and especially in the case of adults who could get a job and rent their own place or split the costs with a roommie, I'm going to charge market rates and make sure that's enough to cover my costs, including legal costs.

Maybe (1)

mysidia (191772) | about 2 years ago | (#41123319)

I would be amenable to this, but require an ownership interest in any intellectual property developed, and an equity share in any business developed, commensurate with the importance to the development of the idea/business of having that place to use at such an early stage.

(In other words, I would be taking a big risk, that I gave free space and utilities, and receive nothing of monetary value, but if the business were successful, the amount due to me would be orders of magnitude more $$$ than a few months rent)

Re:Maybe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41127857)

So you are one of those abhorant creatures who are always looking to cash-in big on someone else's value. Go buy a lotto ticket and crawl back under your rock, you slimey sleazebag.

usa trying anythingto not look like the nasguls (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41123401)

nice try but i dont want to live with stiffs either

H.A.G.S.S.
Hackers against geeks in snowmobile suits

FUCK NO. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41123557)

If they aren't able to pay rent they deserve to starve and die.

The end.

No Way! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41124979)

I've heard that all hackers are filthy!

What a lovely idea! (1)

Kamamura (235695) | about 2 years ago | (#41125305)

People have a lot of space they scarcely/ever use. But why just hackers? When we start doing good, let's extend it to other professions. In no time, you will have two attorneys in the attic, a group of gangsters in the garage, a Romanian refugee in the refrigerator, an established loan-shark in the lounge, few pick-pockets in the patio, a visionary in the vestibule, and maybe even a killer in the kitchen.

But what if those people start interacting with each other?

Re:What a lovely idea! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41125741)

The Romanian witnesses the pick-pockets stealing from the loan shark and then the visionary witnesses the robbery of the pick-pockets by the gangsters. The gangsters then use their stolen money to hire the killer to take out the visionary who witnessed their robbery. But unbeknownst to the killer the Romanian sees that act. Soon the cops show up and haul away the gangsters, loan shark, pick-pockets, and one body. The two lawyers will represent the defendants in each case and will call the Romanian as the only witness at the trials. So if you had all these people in your house and they all started interacting with each other, your house would soon be empty as they would all be in the court house(and one in the morgue).

No - and you might as well change the title (2)

MindPrison (864299) | about 2 years ago | (#41125809)

...to: Would you open your house to a homeless person?

I wouldn't even share a hotel room with a total stranger, let alone my entire house. I've given food and money to homeless persons, but there is where my "openness" ends. Letting someone you don't know into your life, 24-hours-a-day, is a HUGE risk, no matter how well educated they are, people are still people...and knowing people as I do, I know most people have at least ONE dark secret, and you may not want that secret to be a part of your life, I know I wouldn't.

People do the weirdest stuff in their privacy, believe me - you don't really want to know, we're talking spitting on the floor, peeing fetiches, shooting boogers here and there, messing around with your stuff, stealing little by little, lying about not having broken stuff, and that's just the Safe-For-Work stuff.

Watch the program "The worlds worst tenants" for some happy inspiration, also - watch caught on the job, and you'll see what people are. These are also the people we consider good, the only tolerable people to have in my home (for me) would be close friends, and family - and yes...they too have these weird habits, admit it...you have at least one too.

Think about that before you open your door, sweet dreams ;)

Isn't that called... (1)

Xacid (560407) | more than 2 years ago | (#41126119)

Isn't that called their mother's basement?

I totally understand free usable work spaces but lodging too? If you don't have your shit together to take care of yourself what would make me even come close to thinking you can manage your own project?

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