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Another LulzSec Member Arrested

Unknown Lamer posted about 2 years ago | from the no-one-went-to-prison-in-wargames dept.

Sony 211

hypnosec writes "Raynaldo Rivera, aged 20, suspected member of LulzSec, has been arrested for his alleged role in the breach of Sony Pictures Entertainment last year. The first suspect, Cody Kretsinger, has already pleaded guilty and was indicted last September according to the FBI. Rivera, who also goes by names 'neuron,' 'royal,' and 'wildicv', surrendered to authorities and he has been charged with conspiracy and unauthorized impairment of a protected computer. The LulzSec member may be facing 15 years in prison if convicted." On the member who pleaded guilty: "Kretsinger, who pleaded guilty to the same two charges now facing Rivera, is slated to be sentenced on October 25. A federal prosecutor said he would likely receive substantially less than the 15-year maximum prison term carried by those offenses."

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Lulz (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41164949)

I read this for the Lulz.

Not so many lulz now (5, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | about 2 years ago | (#41164963)

Hopefully with these arrests and others a few months back, the keyboard warriors out there will start to realise that they're not untraceable and can't just do as they damn well please on the internet.

I'm no fan of Sony but I hope this guy is banged up for a long time for stealing all that private data. And before any wannabe heros mod me down you might want to consider that YOUR data could be part of it.

Re:Not so many lulz now (3, Interesting)

Shavano (2541114) | about 2 years ago | (#41165011)

And before any wannabe heros mod me down you might want to consider that YOUR data could be part of it.

Or next.

An exercise in futility!! (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165029)

Hmm.. hate to break it to you but there ARE ways to be untraceable.. just like any criminal who gets bored they also get sloppy and hence getting caught.

Re:An exercise in futility!! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166193)

That's right. I'm behind seven proxies. Come at me bro.

Clearly the work of ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166689)

Clearly the work of Anonymous!
You coward.

Click box to protect my secret identity.

Re:Not so many lulz now (5, Insightful)

fm6 (162816) | about 2 years ago | (#41165099)

I come at it from the opposite direction: I'm no fan of LulzSec, but Sony deserves to have its toenails removed for being so bloody sloppy about security.

Re:Not so many lulz now (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165573)

so all my neighbours that don't lock their doors deserve to be robbed? ok... that's a ridiculous thing to say. And girls with short skirts deserve... ??? really?

talk about blame the victim

Re:Not so many lulz now (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166053)

You're comparing a company who act as the custodians of our virtual identities to someone leaving their door unlocked, or even a rape victim?

Way to hyperbole your strawman

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166085)

If your neighbours were keeping other people's valuables and it was a widely known fact, you'd expect them to have the decency to have a decent security.
And if they were robbed by crackheads because they didn't even bother putting a sticker pretending to have a good alarm system, you'd expect some of the people who had your neighbours holding to their property would held your neighbour accountable. Even if they were the victims, they should have taken measures to protect the data of all these people.

Re:Not so many lulz now (3, Insightful)

Gripp (1969738) | about 2 years ago | (#41166337)

So, if your bank left your money sitting out front and people took it, you wouldn't blame the bank? That's effectively what sony did. Even better, they were WARNED they had left your money out. http://www.justpushstart.com/2011/02/is-your-private-information-safe-with-sony/ [justpushstart.com]

In my mind they are most definitely responsible. More so than the kids who took it (and apparently did nothing with it).

Re:Not so many lulz now (5, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | about 2 years ago | (#41166601)

I come at it from the opposite direction: I'm no fan of LulzSec, but Sony deserves to have its toenails removed for being so bloody sloppy about security.

Dead right, I don't know how you got modded down.

This was a SQL injection attack. Sony didn't follow that little rule about validating user input and should have known better. I'm not saying they deserved it because they didn't, but I'm saying it was bound to happen sooner or later.

Re:Not so many lulz now (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165175)

All data should be free.

Everybody's data (including thoughts) should be available to everyone, realtime, no exceptions.

Only then can we derive true morality.

Re:Not so many lulz now (2, Insightful)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 2 years ago | (#41165335)

All data should be free.

Everybody's data (including thoughts) should be available to everyone, realtime, no exceptions.

Only then can we derive true morality.

I disagree. Your theory is sound, but in practice Twitter and Facebook didn't result in more morals.

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165463)

I'm fairly certain that the AC was making a dark joke. Something about thoughtcrime or whatever such Sci-fi word it is.

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165617)

Facebook and Twitter are far from "all" data though, nothing stopping anyone from just lying, or hiding behind veils of anonymity. Not only that not everyone has a Facebook or Twitter account.

It would need to be *everybody* to give up *everything* simultaneously for it to work. Like a giant hive mind, a real hive mind. Maybe once we can transfer consciousness to a computer then it'll work (but only if everybody does so).

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

travbrad (622986) | about 2 years ago | (#41165415)

I guess you won't mind sending me all of your passwords then?

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165747)

I'd happily send all of my passwords to everybody in the world when everybody in the world shares their passwords and everything else with each other. Until that moment happens we will all remain selfish.

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165653)

All data should be free.

Everybody's data (including thoughts) should be available to everyone, realtime, no exceptions.

Only then can we derive true morality.

Oh yeah?

For access to your tangibles may I have all your bank account numbers, social security number, telephone number, and address? To supplement that information I'm gonna need all of your passwords, the name of your first grade teacher, your favorite pet's name, your mother and father's middle/maiden name, etc...

With regards to your thoughts how about you tell us what you really think of your boss, wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend/animal soulmate, parents and grandparents, in-laws, etc..... If you're your own boss then what do you think about your clients? And I'm gonna need contact information for all of those people so we can spread these freely available opinions?

Now, if this post causes your nuts to swell up so large that you (anybody) feel like you need to prove a point by posting the requested information, i'm going to go ahead and call you out for being a fucking liar..... and that's OK!

Now seeing as how you posted as a coward i'm going to assume that this is/was a BS post. However, there ARE people out there that actually believe this shit and they should stfu and get real. We've seen time and time again how the uninhibited sharing of information hurts people in their relationships, jobs, and life. Information in itself is not dangerous, but how people utilize that information is; and until everybody around the world can stop being cruel, insensitive, maniacal, self-serving assholes, some information will need to be protected.

To quote the wise Mr. Mackey - "People are bad mmmkay?"

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165209)

I hope they found the data and returned it to its rightful owner. I mean, with it being stolen and all.

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165389)

I'm sick and tired of this "it's just bits, you can't steal it" bullshit. Hey, Dumbass, it turns out that my information, my fucking data can be stolen. It turns out that you can steal my data and use that to make real-life impacts. Fuck off - people like you make it impossible to make a case for file-sharing. All you want is free entertainment - and if you look deep down, that's all your "activism" is - you just don't want to pay for music/movies/games. Grow up.

Re:Not so many lulz now (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165639)

All you want is free entertainment

No, some of us are legitimately concerned about the concentration of information into powerful hands - be they corporate or government. I'm not sure it's the best approach, but 'stealing' that information and putting it into the wild gets peoples attention regarding how data is collected, used and stored.

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166559)

> it turns out that my information, my fucking data can be stolen

no it can be copied and deleted, not stolen.

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165269)

Things are not what they seem.

Re:Not so many lulz now (4, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#41165299)

You don't have to be a fan of Sony, to see what these guys are doing is wrong and criminal.

Sony says we we want to run our business this way. The hackers go we don't like it. So except for just informing the public on their opinion (freedom of speech) they bring down the site, because for some reason we think that Our Ideas are right and any disagreeing idea is somehow motivated by some corrupt cause.

If you are Pro-Choice then those Pro-Life people are trying to keep Women rights down.
If you are Pro-Life then those Pro-Choice people are trying to make a world where woman don't need to have any consequences for their actions.
If you are Republicans those Democrats are trying to keep the People addicted to government services so you can better control them.
If you are Democrat those Republicans are trying to brainwash people to keep buying crap from these companies so they no longer need to innovate.

We rarely ever get arguments anymore stating I understand your view, but I think my advantages may outweigh the disadvantages that you brought up. But we have moved to a world where a disagreement means your oponent has some Evil motive behind them. If you think your Ideological Opponent is evil then you feel justified hurting them in one way or an other.

Re:Not so many lulz now (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165481)

And what is your opinion of Sony putting a rootkit on your machine?

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#41166099)

I don't like the process... But... I knew about it and didn't buy a root-kitted product.
However what we call a root kit, others call a tool to help support the problems.

I don't think the benefit of better support justifies the increased security risk on your PC.
But is it really worth some holy crusade of breaking into their computers just so you can laugh at them and say Good you Deserve it?

Re:Not so many lulz now (4, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | about 2 years ago | (#41166679)

You don't have to be a fan of Sony, to see what these guys are doing is wrong and criminal.

But that's not why they're going to jail. Sony has done plenty of wrong and criminal things in their time, and no one there has gone to jail for it. Selective enforcement of the law is not justice.

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

1s44c (552956) | about 2 years ago | (#41166683)

That is the best argument I've read all week.

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

Alex Belits (437) | about 2 years ago | (#41166853)

Understanding someone's view is one thing, treating objectively wrong claims about reality as if they are valid, is something completely different.

Re:Not so many lulz now (2)

mcgrew (92797) | about 2 years ago | (#41167205)

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I'd be all for this guy going to jail if someone from Sony would have gone to jail for XCP, which vandalized thousands of their paying customers' computers. As it is, I say payback is a motherfucker and Sony got what was coming to them when this guy brok in to their systems. Actually, they deserve more. They deserve to be run out of business completely.

Yes, I was a victim of Sony's hacking. Put Sony's president in prison and I'll be all for putting this guy in prison.

Re:Not so many lulz now (5, Insightful)

mvar (1386987) | about 2 years ago | (#41165355)

I definitely believe criminal activity should be punished but sending in prison a 20-year old for 15 whole fucking years and treating him as if he is a war criminal or serial killer, for simply hacking into a computer of a multi-billion-dollar company (which as it seems didn't care to invest some of it's awfully lot of money in protecting it's customer's data) , is a little too much. Especially when at the same time there are other criminals out there who roam free thanks to their financial status.

Re:Not so many lulz now (3, Insightful)

mvar (1386987) | about 2 years ago | (#41165403)

not to be misunderstood here: this kid should be punished but 15 years is just madness

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166149)

It's just to deter other people who might want to do the same kind of things. And when it doesn't work (it never does), lawmakers will just up the ante. By the turn of the century, cybercriminals will all face the death penalty.
At least, if they get caught in the wrong state of the US.

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166345)

I agree, cruel and unusual punishment.

Re:Not so many lulz now (2)

1s44c (552956) | about 2 years ago | (#41166783)

I agree, cruel and unusual punishment.

It's just too great a quantity of punishment for the crime being punished.
It's not about the punishment being cruel or unusual, only that there is too much of it.

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 2 years ago | (#41165437)

...he keyboard warriors out there will start to realise that they're not untraceable and can't just do as they damn well please on the internet.

What they have to realize is to trust no one.. Most of these guys get caught because somebody snitched, and of course because they can't keep their own mouth shut and have to brag about their exploits. But informers are a greater threat than government tech and spying.

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165469)

I am no fan of hackers either, but we need to realize that if these guys are hacking in, then these systems are vulnerable. Personally I want to know when a system that contains my data is vulnerable.

Re:Not so many lulz now (2)

bws111 (1216812) | about 2 years ago | (#41165623)

OK, I'll help you out with that: EVERY system that contains your data, including the systems you personally control, is vulnerable.

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165641)

Personally, I'd rather his prison space was kept free for a murderer or rapist. There has to be a better way to rehabilitate/punish non-violent criminals than 15 years in the (probably already overcrowded) clink.

Re:Not so many lulz now (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41167351)

No problem. Just let the dirt-bag share the cell with a rapist or a murderer.

Re:Not so many lulz now (2)

mcgrew (92797) | about 2 years ago | (#41165769)

I'm no fan of Sony but I hope this guy is banged up for a long time for stealing all that private data.

I thank the guy for hacking Sony. Nobody from Sony went to jail when Sony vandalized my and thousands of others' PCs with their XCP trojan rootkit, why should this guy go to jail?

Where's the justice?

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166019)

This. Who got arrested for "unauthorized impairment of a protected computer" for releasing their damned rootkit into the wild? I'm not (necessarily) defending this guy's actions, but this is just another example of one "justice" system for non-rich humans, and another for corporations.

At least these incidents have convinced me to never buy another Sony product again. I'm still allowed to say stuff like that, right? Wouldn't want to get arrested for impairing corporate profits or anything.

Re:Not so many lulz now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165867)

Who's to say they got the right guys, And not some framed kids?

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

jb11 (2683015) | about 2 years ago | (#41166081)

Because one pleaded guilty and the other "surrendered to authorities." I don't know about you, but if I was framed I would be fighting the charges.

Re:Not so many lulz now (2)

Sancho (17056) | about 2 years ago | (#41166269)

That's easy to say when you aren't being threatened with 15 years in prison. I'd imagine that innocent people plead guilty when they can't afford a good lawyer, or when they think that they are likely to be found guilty anyway and the plea deal is considerably better than the maximum sentence.

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

jb11 (2683015) | about 2 years ago | (#41166847)

How do you know it is "easy to say" for me, or that I have not experienced being threatened with prison time? While, admittedly, your comments are valid and I can understand how innocent people can be found (wrongly) guilty, that doesn't change the fact that I would fight the charges.

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

1s44c (552956) | about 2 years ago | (#41166817)

Because one pleaded guilty and the other "surrendered to authorities." I don't know about you, but if I was framed I would be fighting the charges.

Actually lots of people plead guilty to things they didn't do. There are lots of reasons people do this not just pressure from the police.

Small percentage face "justice" & not everywhe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166043)

Your looking at reality from a warped perspective. The Internet isn't just in rich nations. It's everywhere and the majority of the world isn't prosecuting these people. All one has to do is look at spam. It's easy to do, easy to do from anywhere, and while some people within the US have been targeted there are those in Russia, China, and elsewhere that continue to profit from it. In fact it's protected by the Russian government. I really don't see how your going to take down one of the biggest powers in the world. We haven't exactly succeded in Iraq/Afganistan and your suggesting we are going to succede at tackling Internet crime? Or for that matter even make a dent in it? No. It's not happening. We will catch a few easy targets in the UK/US/and a few other cooperating countries.

However in the larger scheme of things the "crimes" will go on because where there are thousands of different laws and no enforcement in some places it'll be easy to skirt by someone somewhere. Not to mention we have GOVERNMENT funded hacking. What do you think "cyber war" is all about?

We shouldn't be going after people committing crimes on the Internet. We should be improving the systems which we connect to the Internet so they aren't vulnerable in the first place. We aught to eliminate law enforcement from having access to computers and technology and spend that money on mandating the source code be released for all critical components. Then fund review and analsys of free software.

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | about 2 years ago | (#41166519)

Hopefully with these arrests and others a few months back, the keyboard warriors out there will start to realise that they're not untraceable and can't just do as they damn well please on the internet.

Funny how different opinions can be. I just hope they'll be more careful in future.

Re:Not so many lulz now (2)

1s44c (552956) | about 2 years ago | (#41166545)

I'm no fan of Sony but I hope this guy is banged up for a long time for stealing all that private data. And before any wannabe heros mod me down you might want to consider that YOUR data could be part of it.

Well that's the thing. If he is proved guilty in a fair trail he should be punished but isn't 15 years too long?

He didn't kill anyone, he didn't physically hurt anyone, nor did he do anything terribly bad with that data. All he did was embarrass a company that should have been taking better care of the data. Sony was going to leak all that data anyway if they hadn't already.

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

Hatta (162192) | about 2 years ago | (#41166653)

the keyboard warriors out there will start to realise that they're not untraceable and can't just do as they damn well please on the internet.

I'm no fan of Sony

If you are Sony, you can do just as you damn well please on the internet. Still no arrests made for the rootkit fiasco, and that was every bit as illegal as this.

There is no rule of law in America.

Re:Not so many lulz now (1)

Alex Belits (437) | about 2 years ago | (#41166991)

And before any wannabe heros mod me down you might want to consider that YOUR data could be part of it.

I would prefer if my data on insecure servers was taken by someone who widely announces the problem, rather than by someone else who would do it in secrecy and cause me some serious trouble.

big negative (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41164997)

Where one falls, three more will rise to take his/her place. Locking up LulzSec will be an exercise in futility much like the American "War On Drugs"

Re:big negative (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165035)

Keep believing that. Report back here in five years to see if you are right.

Re:big negative (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#41165139)

There is a different.
We have Anonymous and LulzSec as partially organized organizations. There is a particular group of criminals that can do the attack on.

The "War On Drugs" is trying to stop the supply of a product that is in demand. The US can crack down on the big Drug Lords, but won't stop the flow of drugs because there will always be the smaller ones shipping the same product.

Big attacks like Anonymous and LulzSec have a loose organization structure going enough to get a targeted attack... That means the government once they put their mind to it, can start kicking off these hackers. These people are petty criminals, not Hero's. Once people realize that they could get caught hacking, such large attacks should reduce down, because there is more risk in this type of vandalism.

Re:big negative (1)

robmv (855035) | about 2 years ago | (#41165341)

"When one rapist falls, three more will rise to take his/her place", So lets declare surrender and stop wasting money capturing them. What dump mentality these days

Re:big negative (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 2 years ago | (#41165391)

Where one falls, three more will rise to take his/her place. Locking up LulzSec will be an exercise in futility much like the American "War On Drugs"

No, that was never true. LulzSec was too closed an operation to say such things, especially after they pissed off lots of Anonymites. In the end everyone hated the douche bags, and no one wants to carry their Flaming Asshole Torch.

Re:big negative (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165795)

A better analogy would be terrorism and how killing a few insurgents in an attack only angers the civilians who are often collateral damage, and thus for each insurgent killed 3 more rise up.

This is not about file sharing or fun or teenage rebellion. This is about freedom and privacy. Remember when Sony went after Geohot and in doing so, tried to establish a precedent that what they sell you remains their property and you aren't free to use it privately any way you want? Remember when the RIAA and MPAA pushed for SOPA because their profits were more important than our right to online privacy? Remember when they tried to acquire the power to censor ANY website if they simply accused it of being infringing on some copyright, thus threatening freedom of speech? Remember when they tried to make linking to stuff illegal? Remember when the DOJ seized all these domains without a trial "because piracy" and many were found innocent? Remember the "pay up or else letters" that were ultimately ruled to be extortion? Remember the dirty stuff that the Wikileaks documents uncovered about the US government and many corporations?

These are the things people are fighting against today. It affects everybody, so everyone and anyone has the potential to join the fight. And then you have to take into account that teenagers today were born with the Internet, file-sharing technology seems natural to them and they will never understand why artists have to keep making millions when anyone can record a song and sell it online or why there has to be a publisher standing between the customer and the artist and who is leeching most of the money. They also won't understand different release dates around the world, DRM, lack of availability for music and movies, prices above $1 for a song, etc. They will never understand any of that, just like today's 40 year olds would never understand having to pay a fee every time they ask a stranger for directions in the street. A lot of people disagree with file-sharing - I get that. But the point is, you will never convince the younger generations to see it differently.

As for going after members of Anonymous and Lulzsec, it just angers people further. They might not agree with Lulzsec's methods, but Lulzsec does try to defend these people's interests. So these people, they will take anything done against Lulzsec as an attempt to violate their rights, freedom and privacy further.

So in light of all this, I agree, I think it's very likely that for every Lulzsec member taken down, 3 will take his place.

Re:big negative (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166175)

You sound pretty sure. They've all been getting collected and sent to prison for what, a year now? Things have been relatively quiet since the first one was caught and went turn-coat on the rest.

Re:big negative (1)

gsslay (807818) | about 2 years ago | (#41166749)

I'd like to know where you get your figures. I would think that having been shown the very real risks of a lengthy stretch on prison, you'll find those willing to 'replacing' those who 'fall' are in the decline.

There will always be criminals, does that making locking up criminals futile? Should we just give up on doing that?

The "War On Drugs" is an example of what happens when you try to legislate against market demand. There is a demand for drugs, there will always be those willing to sell to that market. On the other hand, there is no market demand for self-righteous, self-appointed internet vigilantes.

Good work Sabu? (1)

L3sT4T (856344) | about 2 years ago | (#41165001)

I wonder if that's another arrest they made thanks to Sabu's cooperation, if so, that coop was the best thing the FBI could have done in this whole mess of so-called "hacktivism"

Re:Good work Sabu? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165309)

Sabu is selling out his former comrades for the lulz.

See, information is free, including information on who his accomplices are.

Re:Good work Sabu? (1)

1s44c (552956) | about 2 years ago | (#41166907)

Sabu is selling out his former comrades for the lulz.

I doubt lulz come into it. I'm sure he is scared into submission and will do whatever he is told to.

It's the FBI's turn to have lulz now.

What a surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165101)

Did these fucking kids really think that just because the cops weren't kicking in their door the next morning they wouldn't be caught? That is an impressive display of ignorance on how law enforcement actually works. It's as if the 90s never happened.

no sense of proportion, no justice (2)

udachny (2454394) | about 2 years ago | (#41165135)

Raynaldo Rivera, aged 20, suspected member of Lulzsec has been arrested ....

charged with conspiracy and unauthorized impairment of a protected computer. The Lulzsec member may be facing 15 years in prison if convicted....

accused of hacking Sony Pictureâ(TM)s Web site in June 2011 through use of SQL injection attack and downloading thousands of records containing names, birth dates, addresses, e-mails, phone numbers, and passwords. The hacker after posting all the data onto Pastebin, announced the hack through a tweet.....

"Hey @Sony, you know we're making off with a bunch of your internal stuff right now and you haven't even noticed?"

The hacking collective claimed that they had managed to grab information of more than a million people whereas Sony countered the claims saying that only 37k records were actually stolen.

there is no sense of proportion here, it's not justice. Maybe it is the people, whose records were stolen, that should be outraged, not Sony, Sony as a company should be humble about it and do whatever to mitigate the problem their lack of interest in security may have caused.

But because large corporations like Sony are in bed with large governments, there will be no justice. Sure, send these guys to prison for 15 years because a company is outraged. How about company's clients?

My point is - this is none of government's business, it is up to the market to solve theft crimes. If these guys caused damage to private individuals, private individuals should take them to court (and maybe they should take Sony to court), but this has nothing to do with government, why is government throwing these people to jail?

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (3, Insightful)

bws111 (1216812) | about 2 years ago | (#41165345)

So to sum up your position: victims of crime should bear the full responsibility and costs associated with finding, trying, and punishing the criminals. Gee, I can't imagine why the rest of society does not agree with you.

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (1)

udachny (2454394) | about 2 years ago | (#41165567)

and to sum up your position, not only the victims of theft should be not compensated by the perps, but they should then bear responsibility to pay for imprisoning these thieves both, with their taxes and by having bigger government that is given this function, and thus having less freedoms eventually, because all growth of government leads to fewer individual freedoms.

My position is that the people who have something stolen from them should be in a position to recover what is stolen, this is a private, civil matter, perps should be forced to return the goods, or to work to pay back for what was stolen plus damages (maybe a couple of times the value of the stolen goods) and there shouldn't gov't throwing people to jail for theft, taxes shouldn't be collected and spent on this.

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (1)

bws111 (1216812) | about 2 years ago | (#41165793)

Yes. We live in a civilized society. Being in a civilized society means we all get benefits from it, and we all have responsibilities in it. What those benefits and responsibilites are is certainly subject to debate, but there is pretty much no modern society that places the onus of crime on the victim. If you don't want to live in such a society, remove yourself from it. There is plenty of wilderness in the US, go live in it.

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (1)

udachny (2454394) | about 2 years ago | (#41166055)

I don't see it as being civilized at all - sending people to prison for 15 years because they copied something off an unsecured server and placed it on some web page.

Is that civilized? I don't think so. It's barbaric. It would make much more sense for the clients of Sony to sue them and get damages if the courts find that damages were caused, but 15 years in prison because Sony is in bed with politicians?

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (2)

bws111 (1216812) | about 2 years ago | (#41166391)

They haven't been tried, convicted, or sentenced yet, so your hysterical '15 years!' crap is way premature.

'Sony is in bed with politicians' - now we are really off in tin-foil hat land. Other than creating a law prohibiting unauthorized use of computers, how exactly are politiicians involved in this? And what makes you think Sony had any hand in crafting that law, or that the overwhelming majority of Americans don't support that law?

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166843)

And what makes you think Sony had any hand in crafting that law, or that the overwhelming majority of Americans don't support that law?

It's easy to explain why he thinks that. Refer to what I wrote here:

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3080385&cid=41166413 [slashdot.org]

See, according to us libertarians, most taxes come from the rich (Sony and other corporations), not the poor (the majority of Americans). So obviously Sony has a hand in writing the laws - they paid for them. Whether the rest of the population agrees with the law is merely coincidence

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (1)

rullywowr (1831632) | about 2 years ago | (#41165799)

My position is that the people who have something stolen from them should be in a position to recover what is stolen, this is a private, civil matter, perps should be forced to return the goods, or to work to pay back for what was stolen plus damages (maybe a couple of times the value of the stolen goods) and there shouldn't gov't throwing people to jail for theft, taxes shouldn't be collected and spent on this.

So you are saying Bernie Madoff should not have been jailed and instead he should have worked to pay back a couple of times the value of the $$$ he stole and no longer had?

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (1)

udachny (2454394) | about 2 years ago | (#41166001)

Sure, what's the purpose of him being in jail exactly? What is he going to do there? Why are you, as a tax payer, forced to subsidize his living accommodations? His possessions should be confiscated and sold off, but it's not a gov't problem, it's a private problem. People who lost money with him didn't do due diligence and bought into his scam, so what's your particular problem with him, did you lose money because of him?

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41167063)

The purpose of him being in jail is to remove him from the society whose rules he does not follow.

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about 2 years ago | (#41165883)

I think you're missing the point where you can go and beat up twenty grandmas and end up with less time.

or alternatively steal 500 million dollars from grandmas.

it was still a pretty lulzy run, tbh.

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (1)

bws111 (1216812) | about 2 years ago | (#41166067)

15 years is the MAXIMUM sentence they could receive. They have not even been convicted yet, much less sentenced, so you have no idea how much time they will actually get. And I am pretty sure the MAXIMUM sentence for beating up twenty grandmas or stealing 500 million dollars is at least 15 years.

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165365)

>why is government throwing these people to jail?
Because of over-reaching and vague 'hacking' laws.

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (1)

wed128 (722152) | about 2 years ago | (#41165503)

Are you saying that LulzSec does nothing wrong? If an irresponsible bank teller leaves my social security number on her desk, It's OK for someone to snap a picture of it? We have these laws for a reason. Granted, i'd never go back to the bank, but i'd like my information protected any way that is feasable.

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165461)

LOL what?

If someone breaks into your apartment and carries off your TV, your recourse is to find out who did it yourself, and sue them for the price of a new TV?

They committed criminal acts. The civil lawsuits will come later, though you cant get blood from a stone, and these kids future earning potential is probably near that of a potato.

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165711)

LOL what?

If someone breaks into your apartment and carries off your TV, your recourse is to find out who did it yourself, and sue them for the price of a new TV?

They committed criminal acts. The civil lawsuits will come later, though you cant get blood from a stone, and these kids future earning potential is probably near that of a potato.

Come on, now - be reasonable. There's always male prostitution.

Re:no sense of proportion, no justice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166413)

Nope, justice is being served

See, all the hacker did to private individuals is copy some of their data, but as we libertarians say: copyrights and patents are bogus. There's no damage done in copying!

The only damage the hacker did is to Sony. Sony's reputation is damaged, which hurt their business. Ergo, Sony is the one that's outraged

So Sony should be the one paying for the persecution of the hacker. Well, they already did: they paid and bought government. That is why government is arresting and putting the guy on trial.

Remember that like half of the US population don't even pay income taxes. It's corporations like Sony who pay the bulk of the taxes. Sony's taxes is the one paying for the jails, not us. So it's perfectly reasonable that government works on Sony's behalf.

Beavis summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165157)

"How do you please to these charges...." --Beavis and Butthead

sad (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165161)

I know that it's good they caught the criminals and stuff but man I feel so sorry for these kids, it's going to ruin their lives.. :(

Re:sad (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165387)

They chose to ruin their lives by being criminals. Why feel sorry for them?

Re:sad (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165861)

Because there should be a sense of proportion. 15 years is way too much for what they did.
If you don't understand that, then please leave this planet.

Pleased (1)

Taibhsear (1286214) | about 2 years ago | (#41165273)

Pleaded at the quality of the proofreading as usual. Keep up the good work, editors.

impairment of a "protected computer"..? (1, Interesting)

who_stole_my_kidneys (1956012) | about 2 years ago | (#41165343)

really...come on really, was it that "protected" ?

Re:impairment of a "protected computer"..? (1)

bws111 (1216812) | about 2 years ago | (#41165543)

Uh, yeah. "Protected" means protected by the law, not technical measures.

Re:impairment of a "protected computer"..? (1)

SJ2000 (1128057) | about 2 years ago | (#41166807)

Depends on jurisdiction though, there are some western jurisdictions where lack of a published policy and access control mechanisms can imply open access which is enough to argue in court.

LulzSec going down (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165645)

lulz

Suprise! (1)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | about 2 years ago | (#41165739)

I was surprised to see they are still making arrests. I had expected all those involved were already in federal "pound me in the ass" prisons. Obviously I overestimated our law enforcement.

Re:Suprise! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166207)

I see it as them taking their time to build a solid case, so as to not waste time and money.

Re:Suprise! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41166237)

cool, so you support punishment of minor crimes by traumatic sexual assault. What's it like back there in the fifteenth century?

Free The Lulzsec & GNAA Heroes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41165771)

Free Jeremy Hammond! Free Weev!

Wait a second... (0)

akilduff (2523374) | about 2 years ago | (#41166325)

SQL injections? You mean those things I learned from YouTube when I was 12?

Re:Wait a second... (1)

Alex Belits (437) | about 2 years ago | (#41166769)

SQL injections? You mean those things I learned from YouTube when I was 12?

No, SQL injection IS WHAT YOU ARE, little Bobby Tables!

I love my country (0)

buck-yar (164658) | about 2 years ago | (#41166393)

America, where killing someone gets you less years than sending text to a computer (sql injection).

Re:I love my country (3, Insightful)

jpmorgan (517966) | about 2 years ago | (#41167193)

In the US, generally the maximum penalty for killing someone is death, which I think most agree is more severe than 15 years.

As a matter of course, most people convicted of killing someone else don't get the death penalty, and neither is this man is likely to face 15 years in prison. Those are both the maximum penalty.

Re:I love my country (0)

bws111 (1216812) | about 2 years ago | (#41167337)

Oh lookie, another idiot parroting some stupid meme without any thought at all.

15 years is the MAXIMUM sentence that can be handed down for violating unathorized use of computer laws. The ACTUAL sentence (if convicted) can range anywhere from probabtion up to 15 years.

The MAXIMUM sentence for intentionally killing someone (depending on jurisdiction) is either life in prison, life in prison without possibility of parole, or death.

Your idiotic meme is just plain bullshit.

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