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Kindle Fire Is Sold Out Forever

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the knew-that-bezos-was-a-seller-outer dept.

Handhelds 309

An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from geek.com: "Amazon has released a rather bizarre bit of news today. The Kindle Fire has completely sold out. You can no longer buy one, and the wording of the press release suggests there won't be any more manufactured. In nine months on sale Amazon claims to have secured 22 percent of tablet sales in the U.S.. With that in mind, Amazon will definitely be selling more Kindle Fires, however, the next one you'll be able to buy will probably have a '2' at the end of the name. Jeff Bezos said that the Kindle Fire is Amazon's most successful product launch so far and that there's 'an exciting roadmap ahead.' He also confirmed Amazon will continue to offer hardware, but there's no detail beyond that." Also covered on Slashcloud.

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Slow news day? (5, Funny)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178385)

Product withdrawn from sale pending announcement of new product.

Film at 11.

Re:Slow news day? (4, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178431)

To be fair, most companies keep selling the old one until the new product is actually available though. Some even continue to sell the old model afterwards as a budget model.

Re:Slow news day? (5, Interesting)

Applekid (993327) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178463)

To be fair, most companies keep selling the old one until the new product is actually available though. Some even continue to sell the old model afterwards as a budget model.

I remember there was a lot of grumbling when the Kindle 3 came out like a week after the Kindle DX (based on the Kindle 2) did.

Meanwhile, back in the days when Apple products were announced AND were available in stores immediately, any pending orders would get upgraded to the new models automatically, which was pretty cool of them.

Re:Slow news day? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178533)

There is nothing cool about Apple. They are just as bad as Google and M$, if not worse.

Re:Slow news day? (4, Informative)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178953)

>>>any pending orders would get upgraded to the new models automatically, which was pretty cool of them.

Unless you didn't want the new models, then it would suck. For example I wouldn't want the new 4S phone because it has a dualcore that drains the battery faster than the old 4 model. If I order the "4" then that's exactly what I want..... not Apple to upgrade me.

Another example of this is where I ordered a stick-shift Beetle and the dealer "helpfully" upgraded me to the Automated Shift because "it gets +2 more MPG". Yeah. True. But I wanted to shift the car myself.

He lost a sale that day.
Then he begged me to keep the business.
So I told him to knock $1000 off the price. His foolish behavior cost him some cash. A customer wants Exactly what they what, not a a car dealer's or Apple's switcheroo.

Re:Slow news day? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179075)

I somehow think most customers would appreciate an upgrade at no cost, albeit with an option to refuse the upgrade if possible.

Also, don't let your self-righteous indignation impact your typing skills - it reflects badly on you.

get a real car (0)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179157)

stick shift -> automatic is rarely an upgrade.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

jnork (1307843) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179089)

Yeah, the old auto-shifter. The very idea makes my brain itch.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178545)

Some even continue to sell the old model afterwards as a budget model.

ie. They lose money.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178641)

They lose money.

I have a bridge to sell you.

Re:Slow news day? (3, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178659)

Some even continue to sell the old model afterwards as a budget model.

ie. They lose money.

Or gain market share.

In the case of a Kindle, the expectation is you'll be buying eBooks from Amazon.

The reality is, selling it at a loss is better than having unsold inventory you'll never sell anyway. So you might as well sell at a discount and recoup *some* of your costs, or you just end up with junk and recover none of your costs.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178693)

No one loses money on budget models, because by the time something has become a budget model the cost of production has decreased so much there's a healthy margin on the product.

It's the same with phones, tablets, and consoles. The PS3 and 360 both made hefty losses on release, but now make healthy profits per unit sold.

If you're still making a loss on your old model by the time it is actually old then you're doing something very very wrong.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

bigkahunah (1093791) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178913)

[citation needed] in the parent. Intuitively it seems ludicrous that reducing production would decrease the marginal cost.

Re:Slow news day? (2)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179165)

Intuitively it seems ludicrous that reducing production would decrease the marginal cost.

1. NRE and other sunk costs have already been amortized.
2. Component costs are lower
3. They don't have to reduce production: They can just do one last run at full production to use up their packaging, cases, PCBs and other components, and then sell from stock

Re:Slow news day? (2)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179229)

Intuitively it seems ludicrous that reducing production would decrease the marginal cost.

I think the theory goes that by the time you're retiring a product (unless it was a complete flop), you're likely to have recouped the start-up and development costs, and then the cost of units after a certain point get cheaper per unit and you flip over into the black.

If the product was successful, you recoup your costs from the first units, and then start becoming profitable. Over time, by the time you're well into production, the unit cost of each item drops (because you account for your costs first).

Of course, if you lose money from the start, never sell enough units to recoup your costs ... well, then you have a net loss.

Nothing radical is being proposed here unless Amazon really shot themselves in the foot.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

Dog-Cow (21281) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178759)

You have a very strange idea of loss.

Re:Slow news day? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179095)

The poster doesn't have a strange idea at all. Do you realize that if they're set to release in a few weeks and have run out of old stock that they can't just call up Foxxconn and get a few thousand at the same price point that they could get a few million? If they plan on releasing a better model at $199 it may well cost them most than 199 to have a short run produced.
 
you do understand large scale production, don't you? You do understand why producing a limited number of units may cost you more, don't you? You do realize that someone at Amazon can't just pick up a phone and say "make another 50 thousand for Monday." Don't you? You do understand that some of the hardware may not even be available if the same suppliers have retooled for a new product and new parts, don't you?
 
I'm amazed by how short sighted Slashdotters are anymore and how they dismiss another post with a flippant remark instead of having some logic to back up their ideas.

Re:Slow news day? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179153)

Of course, IT administrators are the only smart people in the company after all.

In reality none of us has the internal financial data, if you're even commenting on these things as if you know something, you're a fool.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178849)

They were already losing money, the Fire is (was?) a loss leader [theatlanticwire.com] for Amazon. Hard to drop the price if you're already selling at a loss.

Re:Slow news day? (2)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179049)

Are they? "IHS iSuppli said the components that go into the Kindle Fire cost $191.65. Additional manufacturing expenses bring the total cost to $209.63."

Maybe Amazon negotiated a really good deal where the mysterious "additional expenses" are near-zero, and the Kindle costs less than the $199 pricetag. For that matter we don't know what the components really costs; I used to negotiate pricing and depending upon the day-of-the-week/supply/etc the total cost could fluctuate as much as $50.

Re:Slow news day? (2)

msauve (701917) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179135)

Now add packaging, shipping to warehouse, storage, order processing, shipping to customer, advertising/marketing, support, and corporate overhead costs, none of which iSuppli is concerned with.

Those would be "additional expenses", right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179273)

Or did you think that was something different?

Re:Slow news day? (1)

ILongForDarkness (1134931) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178807)

This is a much better way for them to do it I think. They don't want people to by a crappy device compared to what they can get at the same price point a couple weeks later. They are already not making a lot (or any depending on which tech news site you believe) on the device so dropping the thing to a budget model doesn't make sense. If the body or screen or something is in short supply why use it to make the old device when you need to ramp up for the new one? I think it is perfectly fine for a company to say "we aren't going to screw you over so sorry you can't buy this device this week. See you in a couple weeks with a more awesome device".

Re:Slow news day? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178929)

Problem being that anyone entering the market for a tablet in the interim will /definitely/ not buy an Amazon product. That is a poor business decision.

Re:Slow news day? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179359)

Problem being that anyone entering the market for a tablet in the interim will /definitely/ not buy an Amazon product. That is a poor business decision.

Yeah, I'm sure no one at Amazon ever considered the idea when making this decision. They should hire you!

Re:Slow news day? (5, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178857)

I don't think Amazon planned it this way. They stopped production on the older Kindle Touch and Fire, and sold-out faster than anticipated. That's all..... no grand conspiracy.

Re:Slow news day? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179013)

This is slashdot, we must fulfill by our duty as libertarians to spin everything as government's fault

Let me try:

If only there are no stupid government copyright and patent laws, somebody could just make a copy of the Kindle Fire and sell it, fulfilling market demand, and all tablets, ebook readers, smart phones, and everything else will be cheaper!

But noooo government has to defend copyrights and patents, so China gets to make bootleg smart devices while Americans are stuck with overpriced crap!

Re:Slow news day? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178459)

Yup, this is how you do it folks, unless you want to be Osborne.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178577)

It's scheduled to come out in two weeks.

typo (3, Funny)

noh8rz8 (2716593) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178507)

tfs:

Amazon will definitely be selling more Kindle Fires, however, the next one you'll be able to buy will probably have a "2 at the end of the name.

I take it this is a typo... surely they meant 2", as in, Kindle Fire 2", Finally, a kindle fire that you can fit in your mouth!

Re:typo (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178523)

It's not referring to screen size. It's Bezos' dick size.

Re:typo (0)

Meski (774546) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178827)

Hmm, length, radius, circumference, diameter? :) Radius wouldn't be bad.

Re:typo (1)

pmontra (738736) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178815)

The Kindle Fire 1" could fit in an eye. Prior art against Google glasses!

Re:typo (3, Insightful)

jd2112 (1535857) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179151)

The Kindle Fire 1" could fit in an eye. Prior art against Google glasses!

And they could call it the 'EyePod'.

Re:typo (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179199)

There is plenty of prior art to google glasses, no need to make stuff up.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178537)

This means their sales projection was only off by one week.

They were trying to avoid ending up with a warehouse full of unsold Model Is, I'd say they did a pretty good job.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178565)

Why would they ever worry about this. They can always put a couple of pions on the job of creating a crappy ebay page and sell off the old stock under the name "Redneck Electronic Sellers Ltd."

Re:Slow news day? (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178647)

Why support a competitor when they have their own in-house "Redneck Electronic Sellers" Warehouse Deals [amazon.com] ?

Re:Slow news day? (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179101)

Maybe MickyTheIdiot..... never mind I can stop right there. LOL. Warehouse Deals has a lot of good bargains on products. However I still find a get better bargains through private sellers because so many of them are dishonest (describing used items as "new"), and therefore I can negotiate a refund to get the item free or 50% off.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178745)

Margins. With margins this low they can't afford to have any units left on "clearance" because they lose money on every one of those, and each one wipes out the profits from many successfully sold units.

Re:Slow news day? (1)

bws111 (1216812) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178839)

Are you kidding? They would be competing with themselves. Someone looking to buy one would have to decide "New model for full price, or steeply discounted old model". Why would you want to do that?

Re:Slow news day? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179261)

Can you stil buy a PC1 from IBM? Things move on and newer and better products emerge.

Kindle Fire 2.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178405)

.. Electric boogaloo?

Seriously, what a wierd way to market a product. You'd think they'd announce the launch of the successor before they stop selling.

I'd rather have that new google branded tab anyway.

Re:Kindle Fire 2.. (1)

jrmcferren (935335) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178427)

If you remember correctly, Amazon isn't the first one to do this. Apple did this as well with the first generation iPhone, the original iPhones were sold out before the launch of the iPhone 3G.

Re:Kindle Fire 2.. (1)

noh8rz8 (2716593) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178483)

they might have been sold out, but the understanding at the time that more stock was on the way... apple never said "we're not going to sell the iphone any more!"

Re:Kindle Fire 2.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179039)

So basically, Amazon's doing the same thing, only with a tiny bit of honesty? How dreadful!

you mean until next week (5, Informative)

milkmage (795746) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178447)

Re:you mean until next week (4, Insightful)

SailorSpork (1080153) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178569)

Great! Now that there is a temporary shortage of supply, I can sell mine and trade up to a Kindle 2 or a Google Nexus 7. Once the new ones are announced, I'm sure demand for the old ones will drop to zero. Thanks for the alert!

Re:you mean until next week (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178981)

My Nexus 7 rocks. It will be a screamin' upgrade from the Fire. You should definitely do this.

Re:you mean until next week (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179255)

Great! Now that there is a temporary shortage of supply, I can sell mine and trade up to a Kindle 2 or a Google Nexus 7. Once the new ones are announced, I'm sure demand for the old ones will drop to zero. Thanks for the alert!

Not really, there are enough people who probably are waiting for the KF2 to come out so they can pick up used KF's for under $100, hoping people will upgrade and force a glut on the market.

Of course, Amazon probably doesn't want to risk having ot sell out the old stock at super low prices that they can't make up the loss through content sales. Better to leave it to upgraders doing so as part of the early adopter premium.

They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire. (4, Insightful)

InvisibleClergy (1430277) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178453)

That's the only reason I can think of that they would stop making money. It's like how Microsoft used to lose money on every Xbox sold, or Sony and the PS3. They wanted a foot in the door of the market, and their next offering will be something that makes them money for each unit sold, rather than losing them money.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (1)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178493)

Ya that was my exact thoughts as well. I went the nook route rather than the kindle route, and I went with an actual Ereader than a tablet but I've played with the fire and it is a good tablet especially for its price.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178725)

"...but I've played with the fire..."

Traditional wisdom would recommend against such actions.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179311)

That new Nook Glow is pretty sweet, but I went with the Kindle e-ink because it was cheap ($70) and it's the only one that has a subscription to Fantasy & Science Magazine for a mere $1/month (instead of $3). I couldn't pass up that bargain.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (1)

iceperson (582205) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178573)

All of the examples you give are closer to a razor and blade business model I think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebie_marketing

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178581)

Or at least, they must not have been making much. If they can increase the specs slightly and the profit significantly that's enough reason to bring out a new edition. There's a zillion tablets out there now, so they could have a rebranded whatsit with a slightly modified bezel and a different rear panel sticker with little agony on their own parts.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (1)

Swampash (1131503) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178629)

Either that or they're just plain shitting themselves that Apple is about to eat their lunch.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (4, Interesting)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178701)

You can get a cheap, no-name, Android tablet with a capacitive touchscreen for less than $150 and the KF's specs were always fairly low. The CPU's OK, but the screen is 1024x600, there's stereo speakers but no microphone, there's no camera, and the only ports are audio out and micro USB - no video, no audio in. Oh, and it has a whopping 6G of RAM.

I suspect, actually, the KF does cost less than $200 to build. Not much less, but enough for it not to make a loss if someone buys one and never buys a single app or piece of music.

This development strikes me as a classic "Build anticipation for KF2" thing, not a "Phew, we got rid of the things. They were taking up space" type complaint.

Bear in mind that if the KF2 is a sub-$100 device, or alternatively is a $200 device with specs rivaling the N7, people who just bought a KF1 a few days before are going to be very upset with Amazon unless they issue free upgrades. Older Slashdotters may remember Amstrad's CPC664 fiasco where Amstrad replaced a 64K home computer with a 128K one over night, and the resultant bad press it got Amstrad! Consumers think they're being ripped off if a manufacturer makes their brand new device obsolete.

I'm very interested to see what the KF2 will be. Are Amazon going to go for cheap, or are they going to go for a Nexus 7 competitor?

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178889)

You can get a cheap, no-name, Android tablet with a capacitive touchscreen for less than $150 and the KF's specs were always fairly low. The CPU's OK, but the screen is 1024x600, there's stereo speakers but no microphone, there's no camera, and the only ports are audio out and micro USB - no video, no audio in. Oh, and it has a whopping 6G of RAM.

6 gig of "RAM"? If you have a geek card, you need to turn it in, dude.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179057)

Brain fart. Yes, I meant flash, or whatever it is you youngsters call non-volatile memory used for long term storage these days.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (2)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179155)

And maybe not. The original Kindle sold for around $500. Do you think they felt "ripped" off when Amazon released the K2 for $250? Or the current base version for $79? Another example: I know many people who paid $25,000 for their Echo-style Priuses but a year later a dealer offered me one for a mere $18,000 because he knew a Prius 2 was coming soon. When you adopt something early, you should understand that you are paying a premium price and that later versions will be cheaper.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (1)

bws111 (1216812) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178895)

The headline of the article is "Kindle Fire 2 expected next week". Why would they deliberately increase the stock of the current generation, when they are going to have to sell them at a discount when the new generation comes out, thus competing with themselves?

The ideal situation for a manufacturer to be in is to sell out all of his old stock exactly when the new product is available. Next best is to have a small gap between product availabilty, building a little pent-up demand. Worst is having excess stock of the old product which must be dumped on the market.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (1)

demonbug (309515) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178961)

Based on the fact that they have some sort of event scheduled for next week, I'd guess that they ordered what they thought would be enough units from manufacturing to hold them over until the KF2 is released, but ran out. Rather than order a whole new manufacturing run to tide them over for a week, looks like they just decided to wait for their new product launch.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179055)

They are probably releasing the Kindle Fire 2 next week [reuters.com] . Most likely they incorrectly managed their supply lines, didn't order enough Kindle Fires, and now don't want to order more.

Re:They must have been subsidizing the Kindle Fire (1)

bws111 (1216812) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179117)

Incorrectly managed their supply lines? Sounds damn near perfect.

Remote deletion (5, Interesting)

CelticWhisper (601755) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178485)

I'll consider the KF2 if Amazon can prove they've permanently removed the ability to remotely delete files from it. No "Sorry (that we got caught)," no "We really truly promise, cross our hearts and hope to die, that we won't use this remote-kill feature which we've conveniently left fully intact and operational on our store servers." I'm not settling for anything less than "We're sorry we fucked with your property, we were wrong to do it irrespective of any licensing disputes, and we've irreversibly crippled our own ability to ever do it again. Here's proof and here's the list of files to rename or delete on your own device to make sure that even if we change our minds, we won't be able to do it to you ever again." Otherwise, I'll keep steering people toward Nook, BeBook, Onyxbook, Kobo, and other brands. Except Sony, of course.

I'm unwilling to buy a device that I end up not truly owning and controlling. I consider the lack of WLAN connectivity on my BeBook to be a feature after what Amazon pulled with 1984.

Re:Remote deletion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178571)

I'm unwilling to buy a device that I end up not truly owning and controlling.

Then your choices are becoming increasingly thin, because selling devices users don't own or control is the direction of the entire industry. And people rush to buy those devices, so they sell like hotcakes, so the trend will only continue.

Re:Remote deletion (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178881)

It's pointless to try to swim against the tide and, yes, tablets are getting more and more locked down. There's still jailbreaking, rooting, and Nexus devices though. The really funny thing is that if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly the most open tablets will be the new Windows 8 stuff coming (not RT obviously). Crazy talk.

Re:Remote deletion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178591)

Just back up your books with Caliber, if you're so worried about it. You should be doing so anyway, so that you're protected in the unlikely event that Amazon suddenly goes belly-up.

Re:Remote deletion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178935)

One word: DRM. Calibre will not touch DRM-ed .azw files. The so-called plugins available do not work either.

Re:Remote deletion (3, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178729)

Why not just get a Google Nexus 7? It seems to tick all those boxes and is, IMO, a nicer device to boot.

I agree (1)

daninaustin (985354) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179003)

The Nexus 7 is a great device. It's nice to be able to run the latest software without having to jailbreak/root the device sine most MDM software checks for this and disables your access to corporate data. So far I couldn't be happier with mine.

Prime Lending Library (2)

brunes69 (86786) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179347)

Access to the prime lending library is the thing keeping me with Kindle at the moment.

Re:Remote deletion (1)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178915)

I'll consider the KF2 if Amazon can prove they've permanently removed the ability to remotely delete files from it. No "Sorry (that we got caught)," no "We really truly promise, cross our hearts and hope to die, that we won't use this remote-kill feature which we've conveniently left fully intact and operational on our store servers." I'm not settling for anything less than "We're sorry we fucked with your property, we were wrong to do it irrespective of any licensing disputes, and we've irreversibly crippled our own ability to ever do it again. Here's proof and here's the list of files to rename or delete on your own device to make sure that even if we change our minds, we won't be able to do it to you ever again." Otherwise, I'll keep steering people toward Nook, BeBook, Onyxbook, Kobo, and other brands. Except Sony, of course.

I'm unwilling to buy a device that I end up not truly owning and controlling. I consider the lack of WLAN connectivity on my BeBook to be a feature after what Amazon pulled with 1984.

Actually, one of the points agains the Kindle Fire in my book was that it offloaded so much to the Amazon servers. Who needs to remotely delete files when they're not really local to begin with?

I'd scratch Nook from that list if I were you, though. The color/tablet Nooks do not allow access to local book storage the way the original Nook did. So your local copy is now more imaginary than real.

Re:Remote deletion (4, Interesting)

Sarten-X (1102295) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179011)

I'm not settling for anything less than "We're sorry we fucked with your property, we were wrong to do it irrespective of any licensing disputes, and we've irreversibly crippled our own ability to ever do it again. Here's proof and here's the list of files to rename or delete on your own device to make sure that even if we change our minds, we won't be able to do it to you ever again."

Because of course it's perfectly reasonable to expect Amazon to keep up with every licensing lawsuit running through the courts in every jurisdiction. It's apparently also perfectly reasonable to want Amazon to release source code "proof" for a proprietary product, and openly endorse users screwing around in the filesystem of a device they support, opening up their technical support to infinite variety and infinite complications.

Even if they did offer such proof that the original system was removed, any mechanism for remote code execution (whether intentionally present or not) could be abused to reimplement the same function, so the proof itself is meaningless. Even a promise not to do it again is meaningless, because a court order could trump that.

They don't even have a reason to be sorry for altering "your" property. There's a nice "terms of service" contract that you agreed to by using the product, and those terms let Amazon do whatever they want. They had your permission to do what they did, so why should they apologize for it now that somebody regrets that contract?

I'm unwilling to buy a device that I end up not truly owning and controlling.

And manufacturers aren't willing to support or in any way deal with the inconsistent administrative mess of letting you control the devices. Nobody really cares if you buy a device for the hardware, mod it 'til your heart's content, and never let the company know it was turned on. The moment your untrusted device starts dealing with their network, though, you become a threat. So go ahead, and use your offline reader. The companies that offer connected devices don't want to deal with your need for "control", anyway.

Re:Remote deletion (4, Insightful)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179235)

We are well beyond the "if things arent exactly as i demand, i wont participate.". Like it or not, we are not the drivers of tech anymore and our influence in telling people not to buy spy machines is gone. THe only path left is RMS style or else a doctrine of mitigation like stripping DRM yourself, and backing up on your personal network.

Re:Remote deletion (0)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179243)

They can only rip you off if you Let them rip you off. Amazon screwed me over a couple years ago. Sent me a product that did not match what was advertised, and refused to offer me a discount or refund. (It was a Gamecube Bundle and it came with none of the games Amazon advertised; they called it a "typo" and did nothing to make it right.)

So I just screwed them back: Dear Amazon: I returned the Gamecube, but you never issued a refund. Here's my proof: Tracking number 0123456789. "We're sorry sir. We'll issue you a refund immediately."

Meanwhile the Gamecube is sitting under my television. A corporation can only screw you if you LET them screw you. Learn to fight back. In my view Amazon is a THIEF that falsely-advertised a product & refused to make it right, so they deserved to have some karmic payback.

Just as if I see someone stabbing a citizen in a street, I won't hestiate to pull-out my gun and kill the stabber immediately. Don't mistreat people. Payback's a bitch.

I'd like to see.. (3, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178557)

An all season, outdoor weathersealed version. Probably won't happen, but it would be more useful to me than one which shorts out in a light drizzle (the ones they've been making.

Re:I'd like to see.. (1, Insightful)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178655)

An all season, outdoor weathersealed version. Probably won't happen, but it would be more useful to me than one which shorts out in a light drizzle (the ones they've been making.

Most people, and I do mean most people - read indoors when it's raining.

Hopeless edge cases like yourself are often left on their own to sink or short out.

Re:I'd like to see.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178987)

put it in a ziplock bag.

Ziplock (1)

jbeaupre (752124) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179139)

Using a ziplock bag seems like a reasonable hack for some people. I even confirmed it works just now. Grabbed a bag from the cabinet, shoved a Kindle Fire in the bag (case and all), turned it on, and proceeded to use it without a problem.

I also just tried a Kindle Touch and LeapPad. Both work fine (though the LeapPad stylus is awkward).

Buy a good ziplock bag and you should be fine even if you go swimming.

A bit of a mouthful (1, Offtopic)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178595)

With that in mind, Amazon will definitely be selling more Kindle Fires, however, the next one you'll be able to buy will probably have a "2 at the end of the name. Jeff Bezos said that the Kindle Fire is Amazon's most successful product launch so far and that there's 'an exciting roadmap ahead.' He also confirmed Amazon will continue to offer hardware, but there's no detail beyond that."

Huh. I don't really think that an Amazon Kindle Fire 2 at the end of the name. Jeff Bezos said that the Kindle Fire is Amazon's most successful product launch so far and that there's 'an exciting roadmap ahead.' He also confirmed Amazon will continue to offer hardware, but there's no detail beyond that. is a particularly catchy name for a tablet, but I'm sure Amazon have done their market research and focus groups.

Re:A bit of a mouthful (2)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179277)

Amazon Kindle Blaze
Amazon Kindle Bonfire
Amazon Kindle Campfire
Amazon Kindle Charring
Amazon Kindle Combustion
Amazon Kindle Conflagration
Amazon Kindle Embers
Amazon Kindle Flame
Amazon Kindle Flare
Amazon Kindle Heat
Amazon Kindle Inferno
Amazon Kindle Scorching
Amazon Kindle Searing

Hope it has a media slot (5, Insightful)

identity0 (77976) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178601)

I know Amazon is trying to get everone to store everything in the cloud, but I really hope they put a media slot (micro or regular SD) on the new Kindle.

I'm seriously considering the nook tablet over the Kindle or Nexus 7, because I can't imagine doing anything on a tablet that really pushes the CPU/GPU, but I can see needing more than 16gb of storage. And not having a nearby wifi spot for the cloud, or the patience to download everything over wifi instead of swapping out a memory card.

Re:Hope it has a media slot (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178829)

as an owner of a kindle fire i would seriously consider upgrading even if the only improvement was an sd card or microsd card slot.

Re:Hope it has a media slot (2)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179249)

Media slots are fading, not growing. Expect to see less and less of them from the big players. They dont want you to 'side-load' content.

Out before the iPad mini (2, Insightful)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178649)

Good timing for Amazon if they can sell out their existing inventory before Apple moves into the 7 inch device market. Perhaps Amazon has seen the writing on the wall. I expect many players will be forced out of the market.

If Amazon does a Fire 2 it will need to be more than a vanilla Android with a custom GUI. 7 inch devices are about to become a market requiring innovation, not just low pricing.

Re:Out before the iPad mini (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178761)

Good to know there's no innovation in the 7" tablet market until Apple arrives :P

Re:Out before the iPad mini (4, Funny)

Pikoro (844299) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178907)

Just you watch.. Someone will claim that apple invented the 7" tablet form factor...

Re:Out before the iPad mini (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178997)

They have had to. They have a 4ish ipod touch and a 10ish ipad, its preposterous, they didn't invent everything in between. Sheesh, yous peoples...

Re:Out before the iPad mini (1)

Bigby (659157) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179203)

I don't care what the iPad "Mini" does, price is always the #1 factor when it comes to market dominance. Based on prior prices by Apple, Amazon won't have a problem selling 7 inch tablets. You have to be joking if you think a several hundred dollar tablet can compete with a $100 or $200 tablet.

Re:Out before the iPad mini (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179237)

I like the Fire because of size and price. I bought a refub for $140 as an alternative for time when the iPad was too big, such as late night reading. It was money well spent. The Fire is a well designed Android device, makes little effort to be a iPad, but is integrated well with Amazon content. I don't know if I would be interested in a small iPad.

The only problem i have with the Fire is the battery life and the choice of USB. I only charge my devices overnight, and mostly they can last all day. Yet the Fire often is not able to last all day, even if minimal use. I have seen battery reports as little as three or four hours. This is unacceptable and make the fire not suitable as a primary device. I know the issue is the wireless, but really, am I going to manually turn on the wireless as I need it and off when I don't? If they are going to have a new Fire they need to have a rated battery life of at least 10 hours, not the current 8.

Re:Out before the iPad mini (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179241)

They should focus on e-ink tablets instead of trying to compete with Apple. Because if you're not Apple, then you're competing with everybody else on the price tag. And low-cost Android tablets are already available [amazon.com] for under 100$ and I don't think Amazon can beat companies like Coby on pricing.

What we need is the next step, color e-ink Kindles. I they can keep wi-fi and the Webkit browser in the new e-ink Kindles, it's a plus. It makes a very nice low-power and long battery life portable browser.

Kindle Fire 2 (4, Insightful)

Danzigism (881294) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178813)

Why would you continue to make an old product when your new product (Kindle Fire 2) is scheduled to be released any day now? Nothing about that seems bizarre to me.

Keyboard? (1)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 2 years ago | (#41178847)

Still want Kindle Keyboard v2. Browsing dictionary via or typing on touchscreen is quite cumbersome. I read mostly foreign language books - a real keyboard is a big deal to me.

Somewhat relevant VGCats reference: (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41178875)

No Touchy! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179017)

Anyone else notice the Kindle Touch is also "out of stock" ?

That makes my shopping simple (1)

MAXOMENOS (9802) | more than 2 years ago | (#41179103)

Barring some announcement from Amazon, my next tablet will be the Google Nexus 7.

I don't want a Kindle Fire 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179177)

I want a Kindle with a good color e-ink display. And not washed-out colors either.

who cares about amazon? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41179283)

Fine for ecommerce but as a device manufacturer? Tine to backout of that strategy, mr bezos....

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