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Iran and North Korea Team Up To Fight State-Sponsored Malware

Unknown Lamer posted about 2 years ago | from the supervillian-crossover dept.

Security 191

An anonymous reader writes, quoting the article: "At the start of this month, news broke that Iran and North Korea have strengthened their ties, specifically by signing a number of cooperation agreements on science and technology. The two states signed the pact on Saturday, declaring that it represented a united front against Western powers. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran's Supreme Leader, told Kim Yong Nam, North Korea's ceremonial head of state, the two countries have common enemies and aligned goals. On Monday, security firm F-Secure weighed in on the discussion. The company believes Iran and North Korea may be interested in collaborating against government-sponsored malware attacks such as Duqu, Flame, and Stuxnet."

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191 comments

superhero team (0, Troll)

noh8rz8 (2716593) | about 2 years ago | (#41218571)

thank goodness, like the fantastic four. now only if they would team up to fight nuclear nonproliferation! like atom man and fallout boy.

Re:superhero team (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218593)

Perhaps, but which OS does all this malware run on?

It's more than OS (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 2 years ago | (#41219875)

What the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the Islamic Republic of Iran are most interest on is not about malware

They are most interested on developing super-sonic anti-ship torpedoes ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval [wikipedia.org] ) which employs Russia's Supercavitation technology ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercavitation [wikipedia.org] )
 

Re:superhero team (0)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 2 years ago | (#41218839)

More like the Wonder Twins. Except I'm not sure which one gets to be the animal, and which would have to be the lame bucket of water.

Maybe Kim Il Sung will claim he invented the Wonder Twins - he's gotta start somewhere.

Hmm... (5, Insightful)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about 2 years ago | (#41218641)

I'm guessing that was an unintended consequence of those malware programs. Unless there's an advantage I don't see with Iran and North Korea strengthening ties.

Re:Hmm... (1)

Dyinobal (1427207) | about 2 years ago | (#41218673)

Ya I think driving Iran and North Korea into having stronger bonds is an unintended consequence. I also am not looking forward to the political mud slinging over this.

Re:Hmm... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218811)

Unintended, but hardly unforeseeable, so why would there be mudslinging? Any sort of broad-based sanction will likely lead to increased ties between people who can't do business anywhere else. National self interest is an older game than you seem to think.

Re:Hmm... (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | about 2 years ago | (#41218829)

Unintended, but hardly unforeseeable, so why would there be mudslinging?

'Cause that's what politicians and demagogues do.

Now you can blame your least favorite politician of the past 30 years for "allowing this to happen".

Re:Hmm... (1)

jd2112 (1535857) | about 2 years ago | (#41219181)

Unintended, but hardly unforeseeable, so why would there be mudslinging?

'Cause that's what politicians and demagogues do.

Now you can blame your least favorite politician of the past 30 years for "allowing this to happen".

Just 30 years? I want to blame all of them at least back to Nixon.

Re:Hmm... (5, Funny)

osu-neko (2604) | about 2 years ago | (#41219477)

Just 30 years? I want to blame all of them at least back to Nixon.

Wait a minute, it's been over 30 years since...? Aw frak...

Re:Hmm... (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | about 2 years ago | (#41219519)

Just 30 years? I want to blame all of them at least back to Nixon.

A bit over 30, but I don't think you can reasonably go back beyond when they kicked our buddy the Shah out.

Re:Hmm... (1)

Genda (560240) | about 2 years ago | (#41219233)

Allowing what to happen? Fred Flintstone and Barny Rubble become partners in building weapons of mass destruction? Oh be still my heart. Anybody with an IQ above small single digits should be able to manipulate this situation all day long to hilarious situation-comedic effect. Think of it as "Laverne and Shirley" with fissionable materials... "One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Schlemiel, Shlemazel, Hasenpfefffer Incorpor BOOM!

Re:Hmm... (3, Insightful)

Dyinobal (1427207) | about 2 years ago | (#41218935)

Republicans will say Obama, some how caused North Korea and Iran to hop into bed, and forget to mention that they would of followed the exact same policies or done worse and got us into another unfunded pointless war in the middle east.

I'm not sure if there will be any mud slinging about this before the election as I doubt the republicans want to draw attention to foreign affairs after Romney's rather terrible overseas trip and the fact his ticket has no foreign policy experience at all but still I can see it happen.

Re:Hmm... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219293)

his ticket has no foreign policy experience at all

In itself, not a major problem. That's why bureaucrats exist. To repeat JF Kennedy, there's no school for US president. The question is, what is their policy?

Romney is shouting more jobs but has not released a policy for it. Reagan shouted 'more jobs' and gave tax cuts to the rich. Bush Jr gave tax cuts to the rich. The current Republican policy is tax cuts for the rich. Romney is demanding affordable education but 2 months ago refuted capping the interest rates of student loans.

Re:Hmm... (0, Flamebait)

Genda (560240) | about 2 years ago | (#41219333)

And that would change anything how? The Reps are claiming Obama is the Antichrist and the Dems are calling all the Reps a bunch of Knuckle Draggers and Mouth Breathers. Two guys at the Republican Convention start throwing nuts at a black CNN camera person. When ask what they're doing they respond "Feeding the Animals." By the way, they got tossed out on their ears, but Sheriff Joe Arpaio, is there with a badge on declaring a special "Honorary". This ftom the guy who would hunt and skin Illegal Mexicans if they'd just stop classifying them as human. Forgive me but the Republican Convention just proved the Reps haven't got the vaguest clue how to fix the mess we're in (except rape the middle class and give their organs to the wealth), and that they don't care anything for the middle class save caring that the middle class think they care about the middle class. Now we get to see what a bunch of weenies the Dems will be roasting. Someone said you gotta have more than clowns to run a circus. I don't know if D.C. is proof or the exception.

Re:Hmm... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219661)

Well... glad to see this conversation eschewed hyperbolic rhetoric in favor of staying on the rails of constructive dialog.

Re:Hmm... (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 2 years ago | (#41220051)

Forgive me but the Republican Convention just proved the Reps haven't got the vaguest clue how to fix the mess we're in (except rape the middle class and give their organs to the wealth), and that they don't care anything for the middle class save caring that the middle class think they care about the middle class.

I'm not sure how you managed it, but it appears that you went here [wikipedia.org] when you should have gone here [gop.com] for information on the Republican platform. See? No baby eating or organ selling.

Re:Hmm... (1, Insightful)

khallow (566160) | about 2 years ago | (#41219349)

I'm not sure if there will be any mud slinging about this before the election as I doubt the republicans want to draw attention to foreign affairs after Romney's rather terrible overseas trip and the fact his ticket has no foreign policy experience at all but still I can see it happen.

I on the other hand hope there's lots of mudslinging. There's no more truth or objectivity in placid campaigns than enraged ones. And the latter have a lot more spirit and engagement to them. Politeness is vastly overrated in politics anyway.

And "Romney's rather terrible overseas trip"? Ignoring that that's an awfully weak talking point, how is that worse than the typical Obama overseas trip? At least, he hasn't tried to insult his hosts or murmured the exact same platitudes to numerous different host countries.

Re:Hmm... (5, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 2 years ago | (#41218749)

I'm guessing that was an unintended consequence of those malware programs. Unless there's an advantage I don't see with Iran and North Korea strengthening ties.

The military-industrial complex needs enemies. I'm on the edges of the "cybersecurity" business and its been apparent for years now that there is a huge push to play up the risks with respect to national security because there are Cosmos-level contracting dollars at stake (i.e. billions and billions). This sort of escalation perfectly feeds that narrative.

Stuxnet is going to pay huge dividends for the company that wrote it, not because of the success in Iran, but because of the massive funding for the coming "cyberwar" that stuxnet provoked - imaginary or otherwise.

Re:Hmm... (2)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 2 years ago | (#41218959)

This sort of escalation perfectly feeds that narrative.

I'm afraid you're right. The call to war just might be more well received by the voters now. Exactly what the doctor ordered. It won't be limited to 'cyber' either. "This is WAR!" Hail, Hail, Freedonia, land of the brave and free...

the military industrial complex is evil (5, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 2 years ago | (#41218999)

but this does not mean that enemies are just made up hoaxes

the venom from north korea and iran is real. just ask a japanese, or a syrian

this is where you lecture me on how these are peace loving harmless countries that have been turned into monsters, just to slake a thirst to spend money by an industrial complex in the usa

you know, there are actually real breathing human beings in north korea and iran who think and have their own ideas, completely of their own will and independent volition. some of their ideas come from concepts they dearly believe that are older than the united states' existence. not just cardboard cut out reflections of some western propaganda from decades ago from a dead cold war era. maybe you should conceptionalize the fantasty that there exists real people outside the usa with their own agenda that did not start in washington dc

some of them have agendas that carry some malice for peace on this earth, not just malice for the economies of the west. what they believe and think is their own original creation, and may require defeat on a battlefield

i say that not because i love drinking oil from the skulls of dead children, or whatever nonsense you believe about someone like myself who would say such a thing, but because i understand, unlike you, that menace does not only flow from one place in the world, and the usa is not the only country with a military industrial complex

in fact, if you want to see the most complete representation of the idea of a military industrial complex controlling a country in all avenues of power, try pyongyang. tehran, not so much, but the revolutionary guard there is trying its best to defang the mullahs and be more of a direct military industrial complex dominating a country, just like pyongyang

so if you oppose the idea of the military industrial complex, you oppose north korea. unless your supposed principles are not so much real principles, just a thin veneer for the same old tired tribalism of hating a country or nationality such as the usa just out of the same old tired empty chest thumping avarice you believe you are above somehow?

Re:the military industrial complex is evil (-1, Troll)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 2 years ago | (#41219017)

but this does not mean that enemies are just made up hoaxes

the venom from north korea and iran is real. just ask a japanese, or a syrian

this is where you lecture me

Stupid war pig, tricks are kids.

Venom does not equal realistic threat. If it did, Osama would have killed millions and the KKK would have purified the country.

this is not a godwin (2)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 2 years ago | (#41219085)

he didn't they and they didn't because someone, somewhere, opposed them. their visions were not fulfilled because they were not in an environment of no effective opposition, like, say 1930s economically devastated germany

so: do you think the cliques in power in tehran and north korea should be opposed? if not, why not?

Re:this is not a godwin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219289)

...so: do you think the cliques in power in tehran and north korea should be opposed? if not, why not?...

Oh, so NOW you want to shed blood? But not to protect our civil rights [slashdot.org] ? do you know how bloody and how much suffering there is in that?

Yes, you are a stupid war pig! Thank you for proving it to us all.

i thought we were talking about malware (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 2 years ago | (#41219305)

the topic of the fucking story you are posting under?

where did i say anything about shedding blood asshole? i said OPPOSE. what does the verb "oppose" mean nitwit?

Re:this is not a godwin (2)

517714 (762276) | about 2 years ago | (#41219631)

Thanks for pointing to the earlier post, now we know he DOES have a shift key. Is there a way to filter e. e. cummings fanbois?

Re:this is not a godwin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219877)

...so: do you think the cliques in power in tehran and north korea should be opposed? if not, why not?...

Oh, so NOW you want to shed blood? But not to protect our civil rights [slashdot.org] ? do you know how bloody and how much suffering there is in that?

Yes, you are a stupid war pig! Thank you for proving it to us all.

We're still waiting for an actual answer to the question.
And just FYI, sitting down and having a rational debate is the exact opposite of going to war. However, calling people names when asked a question and refusing to discuss it is as close to being a "war pig" as you can get without actually shooting somebody.

Re:this is not a godwin (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 2 years ago | (#41219383)

so: do you think the cliques in power in tehran and north korea should be opposed? if not, why not?

They should be opposed with a level of effort equal to their level of threat - not their level of venom.

Re:this is not a godwin (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 2 years ago | (#41219421)

You seem hung up on my word choice. I also question your judgment of what constitutes a threat. Regardless, we're just talking about malware here and you do agree a threat should be opposed and I can't fathom that you would think malware is provocative, so we're in the same ballpark at least.

Re:this is not a godwin (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 2 years ago | (#41219555)

You seem hung up on my word choice.

Your word choice is a nice compact version of how the "cyberwar" threat has been sold. I've been watching the PR on this stuff for years, and you do a fantastic job of mirroring the worst of it, non-sequitors and all. I criticize your word choice because it is the unpolished version of the script the vested interests use.

I also question your judgment of what constitutes a threat.

You are hysterical, not haha hysterical, but completely irrational-evalution-of-the-threat hysterical. All black and white thinking about how any threat is too big of a threat.

we're just talking about malware here

Yeah, that's all we are talking about here. Just a little virus, deletes some mp3s, spies on your bank account, no biggee. Just ask Japan, right? I guess you did add a new non-sequitur to the standard narrative after all.

Re:this is not a godwin (2)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 2 years ago | (#41219623)

I am not required to be a warmongerer to make a laughingstock out of someone who sees no threats from North Korea or Iran. Does one need a PhD in google search to review the recent history of those country's statements and actions? what is the magic exactly whereby you are convinced of the harmlessness of these countriesdespite the evidence of statements of intent and actions to obtain Capacity to fulfill intent?

Re:the military industrial complex is evil (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219511)

the venom from north korea and iran is real. just ask a japanese, or a syrian

Uh, Syria and Iran are great friends, and contrary to the very scripted one-sided narriative you've been receiving on what's happening there, most people support the Syrian government and are fighting against the coup that Israel and the US are funding there (and training jihadists on the Turkish border).
We didn't learn our lessons from Afghanistan when training jihadists to fight us. Guaranteed, there will be blow back any time they are recruited.

Re:the military industrial complex is evil (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219827)

Uh, Syria and Iran are great friends, and contrary to the very scripted one-sided narriative you've been receiving on what's happening there, most people support the Syrian government and are fighting against the coup that Israel and the US are funding there (and training jihadists on the Turkish border).

[citation needed]

Ask Japanese about Korea?? (4, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 2 years ago | (#41219921)

the venom from north korea and iran is real. just ask a japanese ....

 
Say what??
 
Ask Japanese about the Koreans?
 
For Your Information, it was the Japanese who invaded Korea multiple times throughout history
 
Not the other way around
 

Re:Hmm... (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | about 2 years ago | (#41219161)

In other words, same shit as always, but now with much lower body counts? And instead of developing better explosives, we'll be developing better software security that might actually have real uses?

Don't get me wrong, I hate to go on the internet and be optimistic, I know that's not cool, but this sounds positive...

Re:Hmm... (3, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 2 years ago | (#41219425)

In other words, same shit as always, but now with much lower body counts?

Depends on how you measure "body count" - if it takes death by kinetic weapon to qualify, then sure. If it means slow deaths, like losing 10 years off a person's lifespan due to poor medical care, malnutrition, environmental pollution or whatever because resources were poorly allocated then no.

Furthermore, just as tasers seem to encourage misuse because of their advertised non-lethality, we stand a good chance of finding escalation of international conflict because of the less-obvious lethality of this sort of engagement.

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219473)

... the massive funding for the coming "cyberwar"

I suppose the DHS had a limit on how much money they could earn for their job of 'scaring' terrorists out of the USA.

The problem with anti-terrorism is, soon one knows which organisations are terrorists, who could be a terrorist, and even who are FBI creations. Tracking that means a lot of employees but not big-money contracts.

But with the calculus of software, the number of algorithms that can be 'weaponized' is infinite. Building defenses means big money and will hopefully improve IT security. But that gives every terrorist/drug lord/pedophile an impenetrable system.

Re:Hmm... (4, Interesting)

gman003 (1693318) | about 2 years ago | (#41219073)

Unless there's an advantage I don't see with Iran and North Korea strengthening ties.

It's called the "Slytherin Plan" - gather all your troublemakers and ne'er-do-wells and put them in one spot, so you always know where the next attack is coming from (pro-tip: it's coming from the hive of scum and villainy you just made by doing so).

Re:Hmm... (1)

Genda (560240) | about 2 years ago | (#41219177)

I see this as an opportunity. Slip North Korea a couple faulty nuclear triggers and some time next week both county's nuclear programs should be lazily drifting downwind from a large blue glass ashtray. Whoops! Go straight from tickling the dragons tail to kissing its ass... can you say critical mass!

The best part is we can all just shake our heads and say "Hey, ya need a little technical assistance? We've done this before, be glad to help you bandage that owwy... 2,000 lbs of yellow cake? $10.5 million dollars. A uranium enrichment plant? $526 million dollars. An unplanned nuclear detonation in your nuclear bomb works? Priceless!

Oh, the Irony (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218645)

While I've not much of an idea of what goes on either on iran or north korea, even the daftest of the rednecks will notice that these two utterly unrelated countries are joining forces to defend themselves from the US and Israel.

These two are whole countries, and regardless of what the hell goes on, they must defend themselves from this and much, much worse bullshit. Why? Because they're evil that's why

Because america fuck yes, that's why.

My repugnance towards the US is as great as my appreciation of it was when I was a kid.

Re:Oh, the Irony (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218663)

Yawn.

Re:Oh, the Irony (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218717)

Get your popcorn. It's time to be reminded Americans are all fat and lazy warmongering idiots, are responsible for every single hardship, and are so biased and place every other nations in stereotypes. But it's okay, /all/ Americans are like that.

Re:Oh, the Irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218697)

If you think it was any better as a kid, you might want to quit huffing aerosol products long enough for a near-past history lesson.

The only difference was it was much harder to find out about this kind of stuff in the past, and when you did it was often because journalists or whistleblowers put their career or life on the line to do so (not that that part is necessarily any different, just that the information can be disseminated without them HAVING to. Now whether it's credible without an acknowledged source is another matter.

Re:Oh, the Irony (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218711)

If you hate the US so much why are you using one of it's greatest achievements? (the internet)

Re:Oh, the Irony (0)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 2 years ago | (#41218763)

I hate the Nazi's too, but I (and I believe you) do enjoy some of their greatest accomplishments. In others words, there is nothing wrong with using someone's greatest accomplishments and at the time condemning them for their worst accomplishments.

Re:Oh, the Irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218799)

Out of curiosity: which Nazi innovations am I using right now?

Re:Oh, the Irony (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 2 years ago | (#41218861)

Launch vehicles, if you use any satellite tech at all. Also some medical experiments could be added to the list of Nazi tech we all use every day.

Re:Oh, the Irony (3, Funny)

Black Parrot (19622) | about 2 years ago | (#41218879)

Out of curiosity: which Nazi innovations am I using right now?

I'm pretty sure they made up the word "Nazi", which you just used.

Re:Oh, the Irony (3, Funny)

zill (1690130) | about 2 years ago | (#41219169)

Don't forget about grammar.

Anytime you done wrote a complete sentence with proper grammar means the grammar Nazis have won.

Re:Oh, the Irony (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 2 years ago | (#41218905)

I am actually hoping that it is impossible for Nazi Germany to have not contributed to something every person uses today. Of the top my head, I am thinking Rockets (and technology build over it), I remember magnetic tape (audio tape), turbine engines, microwave cooking, some medicines (sorry I dont have names or sources).

Breaking Nazi crypto (3, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41219025)

And if it weren't for trying to break Nazi crypto, the Allies probably wouldn't have invented computers as we know them.

Re:Breaking Nazi crypto (1)

jader3rd (2222716) | about 2 years ago | (#41219629)

And if it weren't for trying to break Nazi crypto, the Allies probably wouldn't have invented computers as we know them.

Are you saying that the Nazi's are responsible for Windows?

Re:Breaking Nazi crypto (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219823)

And if it weren't for trying to break Nazi crypto, the Allies probably wouldn't have invented computers as we know them.

Are you saying that the Nazi's are responsible for Windows?

He is obviously saying that Apple was created by the Nazi's.

Re:Oh, the Irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219071)

Mod UP!

Re:Oh, the Irony (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218923)

A lot of medical advancements were to do Nazi studies that could never be done with modern medical ethics. One example is hyperthermia, they would put prisoners in ice water then put then outside in the cold and monitor their body stats. In the process, they learned to revive someone in such a state.

Many of them are covered while I was in med school, at least they were when I went ('00-'04), with big disclaimers of course. No one likes using the info because of the way it was acquired, but there is no current safe, ethical, way to do many of them and the info is too valuable.

Re:Oh, the Irony (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219005)

The first programmable computer was created in Nazi Germany, and so was the first inflatable doll. Considering you're here, there's a good chance you're using both right now.

Germany's innovations during the war were amazing. They had many advances the Allies couldn't dream of (like night vision, for instance, and there were a few battles were they used tanks while their adversary had horses)... Point is, technology isn't everything, and there's nothing wrong in admitting someone evil did something that helped humanity - it doesn't make them a better person, what matters for that is their intention.

Re:Oh, the Irony (4, Interesting)

Genda (560240) | about 2 years ago | (#41219523)

Yeah, if you're doing anything that involves a satellite, there's some Nazi tech. Your country is holding back the dogs of war with nukes that contain Nazi tech. If you ever did anything that involved hypothermia, you have Dr. Mengele to thank, of course he got that very useful information by freezing hundred of Jews to death, which while useful makes it one of the hardest won pieces of medical information ever collected and forever Mengele a scumbag of monumental proportions.

In fact the Nazis were brilliant engineers and there are literally thousands of improvements in motors, cars, trains, heavy machinery, factories and engineering and applied sciences that are a permanent part of everything we do. That doesn't mean they weren't barbaric. It does mean that they produced some amazing technology in the headlong race to self destruction. Hmmmm, sound at all familiar?

Re:Oh, the Irony (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 2 years ago | (#41219583)

I wish I had not posted in this thread. I would mod both of your posts up if I could. Excellent points.

Re:Oh, the Irony (0)

Black Parrot (19622) | about 2 years ago | (#41218849)

If you hate the US so much why are you using one of it's greatest achievements? (the internet)

The internet??? I thought you were talking about Slashdot.

Re:Oh, the Irony (2)

Genda (560240) | about 2 years ago | (#41219467)

Yes, AC, of course... I know I shouldn't, but just a wee snack. As an American, I'm not very proud of the stupid things my government has done, for... oh, let's say the last 12 years or so. I voted against all of it, as did most of my friends, but its my country and I feel responsible when it screws up, even when it did it against my wishes or blessing (I'm guessing parents must feel this way about wayward children.)

That doesn't make America a bad place or Americans evil (well not all of us :-) There is plenty of dirty rotten to go around and some of the dirtiest and most rotten is coming from large monied interests in Western and Central Europe. The Saudis have been exporting the worst kind of Islamic poison for decades now. China has always been one of the top manufacturers of the most viscous weapons for international sale including mines designed to look like toys that children bring home and then explode killing the entire family. Like I said, there's plenty of rotten to go around. Fact is, wherever you find money grubbing, greedy, grind babies up for a buck scumbags, you find the kind of nasty I'm talking about, and sadly this in not a conversation limited by geography. There is sadly an abundance of human toxic waste on this planet and my guess is that I could find a couple examples of such talking with the same accent speak with, so hate America all you want, just remember, that we haven't got anything resembling a corner on the market of evil fscks.

This is a very bad thing (3, Insightful)

maxbash (1350115) | about 2 years ago | (#41218689)

You think 1930s Germany and Italy working together was bad. This totally freaks me out.

Re:This is a very bad thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218779)

No shit. Two of the very worst cases of extremist idiocracies that actually have a bit of weight in their pants, teamed up. Nothing good will come of this.

Re:This is a very bad thing (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | about 2 years ago | (#41218919)

Two of the very worst cases of extremist idiocracies that actually have a bit of weight in their pants

In the front of their pants, or the back?

Re:This is a very bad thing (2)

Genda (560240) | about 2 years ago | (#41219549)

The back of the pants was Italy, the front of the pants was Germany, and they had to bring Japan in to provide the reach around... and now you have the complete "Axis Powers as Gay Porn, Analogy".

Re:This is a very bad thing (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218875)

This is not similar - at all - to the Axis. The Axis were the attackers, whereas the Best Korea and Iran are defending. There's nothing wrong with forming an alliance to defend against a common enemy, and defending from computer threats should worry no one (well, no one but the malware writers, anyway).

What really surprises me is that the Best Korea has computers. I always thought the Great Leader himself did all the computation on his head and telepathically sent the output to trillions of Best Koreans.

Re:This is a very bad thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219451)

These two were named as part of the Axis of Evil. Forget Nazis and Fascists. They're in league with the Legion of Doom.

Re:This is a very bad thing (1)

Genda (560240) | about 2 years ago | (#41219581)

North Korea has a nuke but no delivery. The current plan is call South Korea for Korean Barbeque take out and tip the delivery boy with a nuke and detonate it after he crosses the border. Iran has missiles but no nuke. It wants to drop a warhead into the middle of Tel Aviv that opens up and shout "Psych!!!!" Together, they bother me. They are both incredibly inept, but they bother me. What do they say "Even the blind squirrel occasionally find a nut..." We need to play these bozos off one another hard. Its time for a little political intrigue and social engineering.

Re:This is a very bad thing (2)

bmo (77928) | about 2 years ago | (#41219891)

When you have two stupid people, they don't add up to one smart person. Two people with an IQ of 75 does not add up to 150. Consider that IQ is actually a percentage where 100=100 percent or 1. For typical meetings of people who have above average IQ, this increases the total IQ by multiplication. When you combine two stupid people you also multiply their IQs, but since their individual IQs are less than unity, the IQ of the system drops. For example: if two people meet and they both have an IQ of 75, the combined IQs of two people is .56, with one of them saying "Hold my beer" and "watch this."

Combining Iran and North Korea does not get you pre-war Nazi Germany. What it gets, I'm not sure, but whatever it is, it ain't smart.

--
BMO

P.S. Business meetings do not follow the above rule. A business meeting is always as dumb as the dumbest person there at a maximum.

P.P.S: I have not yet factored in what is called "retard strength" - you may make your own assumptions about this.

Re:This is a very bad thing (2)

Black Parrot (19622) | about 2 years ago | (#41218901)

You think 1930s Germany and Italy working together was bad.

To a pretty close first approximation, "Germany and Italy working together" = "Germany".

Re:This is a very bad thing (2, Informative)

Animats (122034) | about 2 years ago | (#41219117)

More like Israel and South Africa working together [guardian.co.uk] to build nuclear weapons back in the 1970s.

Bullshit. (4, Insightful)

bmo (77928) | about 2 years ago | (#41219781)

What are they possibly going to do? They are outgunned in every respect - technologically, economically, and militarily by everyone who won't put up with their shit. Pre-WWII Germany had built itself back up to a manufacturing and academic (well, before they chased out the jewish PhDs) powerhouse. Meanwhile we've got the Mullahs afraid that people might actually learn things while at university and a North Korean populace that is reduced to eating grass every 10 years or so. Comparing Iran and North Korea to pre-war Nazi Germany doesn't even pass the belly laugh test.

Did you even see the ludicrous North Korean attempt at a supposed satellite launch? What about the photoshopped missile launch test from Iran?

Compare and contrast to the years between WWII and Yeltsin shelling Parliament when I would see maps in the Providence Journal of what would happen if a nuclear warhead detonated over Quonset Point Naval Air Station - an actual, credible, threat. That's what gets me about this "war on terrorism" and "axis of evil" bullshit which chews up trillions of dollars and ruins soldiers' lives for few actual results over imaginary threats to the US. We're supposed to soil our underwear over some technologically backwards regimes who don't even have actual long-range missiles and their medium range missiles leave much to be desired?

You want cyberwar? How about "accidentally" "dragging an anchor" over an undersea cable in the Persian Gulf or off the coast of North Korea? Because that's what our response is going to be if Iran and North Korea become offensive with malware botnets and they can do fuck-all about it. It's not like it hasn't happened before.

Threat? Please.

What fucking threat?

The people playing up this "threat" of Iran and North Korea are a bunch of pants-wetters and chickenhawks with only one thing in mind - making money off the unjustified fear and advancing the ideologies of PNAC and FPI banging the drums for boots-on-the-ground war with Iran and probably NK. Dan Senor isn't exactly a "potted plant" to take a term from Ollie North's lawyer.

Oh yeah, and guess who Dan Senor works for?

--
BMO

Oh shit! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218765)

The Blunder Team has clawed its way out of Hell and it's coming for you, USA

Where does North Korea get its computers from? (2)

fufufang (2603203) | about 2 years ago | (#41218769)

Considering all the trade and economical sanction, and the collapsed economy, where does North Korea get its computers from? People in that country are starving, and they cannot afford computers. That reduces the talent pool for the malware defence team. Also I don't think communism ethos is compatible with hacker culture, so the people who get to use computers are as thick as wooden planks...

Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (5, Funny)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 2 years ago | (#41218857)

Considering all the trade and economical sanction, and the collapsed economy, where does North Korea get its computers from?

Well up until recently, Kim Jung Il designed and built them all himself.

Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (2)

Black Parrot (19622) | about 2 years ago | (#41218867)

Considering all the trade and economical sanction, and the collapsed economy, where does North Korea get its computers from? People in that country are starving, and they cannot afford computers. That reduces the talent pool for the malware defence team. Also I don't think communism ethos is compatible with hacker culture, so the people who get to use computers are as thick as wooden planks...

Sanctions are disproportionately passed on to the little guy, after the Glorious Leader and his military get their cut of whatever's left.

Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (4, Informative)

Guppy06 (410832) | about 2 years ago | (#41218871)

where does North Korea get its computers from?

Probably from the same place they got their nuclear technology: our dear friend and ally Pakistan.

Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (-1, Troll)

aliquis (678370) | about 2 years ago | (#41219031)

Lame.

So who gives Israel their weapons, nukes (?) and what not?

Who mess up the middle east in the first place?

Who's alright supporting anyone as long as it fits the current agenda?

Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218917)

From the same place they get everything else: China.

Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (2)

fnj (64210) | about 2 years ago | (#41219183)

From the same place they get everything else: China.

You mean, from the same place everybody gets everything: China.

Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (1)

Mashiki (184564) | about 2 years ago | (#41218929)

They get them from China. The elite are very well off, it's very similar as to how it was in the USSR. The peasants are broke, poor, and downtrodden, but the elites? You know, they get a pat on the head and a few hours of luxury. And if you're in the inner circle, you get even more privileges.

Don't worry though, through years of careful brainwashing they teach that the western world is out to "steal" their(n.korean) paradise.

Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (1)

c0lo (1497653) | about 2 years ago | (#41219009)

Considering all the trade and economical sanction, and the collapsed economy, where does North Korea get its computers from?

Up until recently, I don't know... however, I can guess that they'll mostly get them from Iran from now on.

Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219531)

Considering all the trade and economical sanction, and the collapsed economy, where does North Korea get its computers from?

Probably the Chinese landfills where most of our 3-year old computers end up.

in other words (2, Funny)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 2 years ago | (#41218865)

the enemy of my enemy is my friend who has a BSOD just like mine

FreeBSD (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41218921)

Oh, to be a fly on the wall when those two get together one weekend to install FreeBSD for the first time.

Re:FreeBSD (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219855)

Wouldn't they be more likely to install OppressionBSD? [ducks]

Who's surprised (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41219091)

... the two countries have common enemies and aligned goals.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Why are the US and UK so surprised? In 1941 the USA declared Communism (and Russia) an enemy of the state. In WW2 they used the Russian infantry for most of ground-combat against the Nazis.

Re:Who's surprised (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 2 years ago | (#41219147)

Osama and Saddam was all ok until they was not to. Right?

All because they use American Computer software... (2)

msevior (145103) | about 2 years ago | (#41219135)

It's all pretty funny really. They have malware because they're heavy uses of American Software. ie They NEED their hated enemy to make their software.

Worth a laugh (1)

fnj (64210) | about 2 years ago | (#41219173)

This is like two clinically brain damaged boxers, one with delusions of grandeur, the other with terminal paranoia, both apoplectic with grotesque rage, each reeling and barely able to stand, stammering and slurring the simplest verbalizations, unable to sign their own names or feed themselves, hands shaking so badly they can't wee on their own without soaking the whole bathroom, bumping gloves and (attempting to unsteadily) stand together, thinking "NOW we'll show the bastards!".

I doubt this is going to strike fear into the champ. Might make him determined to really stomp both of them the next time all three enter the ring, though.

Re:Worth a laugh (1)

Areyoukiddingme (1289470) | about 2 years ago | (#41219457)

Seriously. They don't speak the same language, they don't look the same, their cultures are both extraordinarily xenophobic, and both of them are perceived on the world stage to be technologically incompetent. In Iran, the education system was there, but it's being rapidly dismantled, and anyway the mullahs make sure Iranians who learn things aren't allowed to do anything with what they learn, and North Korea is, well, a collection of peasants.

Punchdrunk boxers indeed.

New antivirus software industry in Iran, DPRK? (2)

acidradio (659704) | about 2 years ago | (#41219231)

I could see an ironic twist to all of this. Iran and North Korea could end up pooling all of their resources and make really cutting-edge antivirus and antimalware software. We've seen other countries put government money behind a problem (ie. Japan funded research to make better car factories) and solve it in this way. And when Iran and North Korea make this wonderful new software the rest of the world might just line up to to buy it. Who knows what else they will innovate. We could be creating a monster here!

Open Doors (1)

Boronx (228853) | about 2 years ago | (#41219355)

This will probably make their cyber defense efforts easier to infiltrate.

Oh no (1)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | about 2 years ago | (#41219449)

It's the Axis of e-Evil.

We should be proud (1)

mathfeel (937008) | about 2 years ago | (#41219859)

that we manage to get an atheist state and a theocracy in bed with one other.

North Korea will share the secret with them (1)

Hentes (2461350) | about 2 years ago | (#41220001)

North Korea has already developed an unbreakable defence against cyber attacks: they don't have internet or computers strong enough to run a modern virus.

PRK passwords... (1)

jimmydigital (267697) | about 2 years ago | (#41220017)

In related news.. no one was surprised that the master password to the top secret PRK government networks is 1-2-3-4-5. Iran couldn't be reached for comment but was seen to be changing the combinations on all the official state luggage.

Government & Stealth Malware (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41220029)

Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care - Government & Stealth Malware

In Response To Slashdot Article: Former Pentagon Analyst: China Has Backdoors To 80% of Telecoms 87

How many rootkits does the US[2] use officially or unofficially?

How much of the free but proprietary software in the US spies on you?

Which software would that be?

Visit any of the top freeware sites in the US, count the number of thousands or millions of downloads of free but proprietary software, much of it works, again on a proprietary Operating System, with files stored or in transit.

How many free but proprietary programs have you downloaded and scanned entire hard drives, flash drives, and other media? Do you realize you are giving these types of proprietary programs complete access to all of your computer's files on the basis of faith alone?

If you are an atheist, the comparison is that you believe in code you cannot see to detect and contain malware on the basis of faith! So you do believe in something invisible to you, don't you?

I'm now going to touch on a subject most anti-malware, commercial or free, developers will DELETE on most of their forums or mailing lists:

APT malware infecting and remaining in BIOS, on PCI and AGP devices, in firmware, your router (many routers are forced to place backdoors in their firmware for their government) your NIC, and many other devices.

Where are the commercial or free anti-malware organizations and individual's products which hash and compare in the cloud and scan for malware for these vectors? If you post on mailing lists or forums of most anti-malware organizations about this threat, one of the following actions will apply: your post will be deleted and/or moved to a hard to find or 'deleted/junk posts' forum section, someone or a team of individuals will mock you in various forms 'tin foil hat', 'conspiracy nut', and my favorite, 'where is the proof of these infections?' One only needs to search Google for these threats and they will open your malware world view to a much larger arena of malware on devices not scanned/supported by the scanners from these freeware sites. This point assumed you're using the proprietary Microsoft Windows OS. Now, let's move on to Linux.

The rootkit scanners for Linux are few and poor. If you're lucky, you'll know how to use chkrootkit (but you can use strings and other tools for analysis) and show the strings of binaries on your installation, but the results are dependent on your capability of deciphering the output and performing further analysis with various tools or in an environment such as Remnux Linux. None of these free scanners scan the earlier mentioned areas of your PC, either! Nor do they detect many of the hundreds of trojans and rootkits easily available on popular websites and the dark/deep web.

Compromised defenders of Linux will look down their nose at you (unless they are into reverse engineering malware/bad binaries, Google for this and Linux and begin a valuable education!) and respond with a similar tone, if they don't call you a noob or point to verifying/downloading packages in a signed repo/original/secure source or checking hashes, they will jump to conspiracy type labels, ignore you, lock and/or shuffle the thread, or otherwise lead you astray from learning how to examine bad binaries. The world of Linux is funny in this way, and I've been a part of it for many years. The majority of Linux users, like the Windows users, will go out of their way to lead you and say anything other than pointing you to information readily available on detailed binary file analysis.

Don't let them get you down, the information is plenty and out there, some from some well known publishers of Linux/Unix books. Search, learn, and share the information on detecting and picking through bad binaries. But this still will not touch the void of the APT malware described above which will survive any wipe of r/w media. I'm convinced, on both *nix and Windows, these pieces of APT malware are government in origin. Maybe not from the US, but most of the 'curious' malware I've come across in poisoned binaries, were written by someone with a good knowledge in English, some, I found, functioned similar to the now well known Flame malware. From my experience, either many forum/mailing list mods and malware developers/defenders are 'on the take', compromised themselves, and/or working for a government entity.

Search enough, and you'll arrive at some lone individuals who cry out their system is compromised and nothing in their attempts can shake it of some 'strange infection'. These posts receive the same behavior as I said above, but often they are lone posts which receive no answer at all, AT ALL! While other posts are quickly and kindly replied to and the 'strange infection' posts are left to age and end up in a lost pile of old threads.

If you're persistent, the usual challenge is to, "prove it or STFU" and if the thread is not attacked or locked/shuffled and you're lucky to reference some actual data, they will usually attack or ridicule you and further drive the discussion away from actual proof of APT infections.

The market is ripe for an ambitious company or individual to begin demanding companies and organizations who release firmware and design hardware to release signed and hashed packages and pour this information into the cloud, so everyone's BIOS is checked, all firmware on routers, NICs, and other devices are checked, and malware identified and knowledge reported and shared openly.

But even this will do nothing to stop backdoored firmware (often on commercial routers and other networked devices of real importance for government use - which again opens the possibility of hackers discovering these backdoors) people continue to use instead of refusing to buy hardware with proprietary firmware/software.

Many people will say, "the only safe computer is the one disconnected from any network, wireless, wired, LAN, internet, intranet" but I have seen and you can search yourself for and read about satellite, RF, temperature, TEMPEST (is it illegal in your part of the world to SHIELD your system against some of these APT attacks, especially TEMPEST? And no, it's not simply a CRT issue), power line and many other attacks which can and do strike computers which have no active network connection, some which have never had any network connection. Some individuals have complained they receive APT attacks throughout their disconnected systems and they are ridiculed and labeled as a nutter. The information exists, some people have gone so far as to scream from the rooftops online about it, but they are nutters who must have some serious problems and this technology with our systems could not be possible.

I believe most modern computer hardware is more powerful than many of us imagine, and a lot of these systems swept from above via satellite and other attacks. Some exploits take advantage of packet radio and some of your proprietary hardware. Some exploits piggyback and unless you really know what you're doing, and even then... you won't notice it.

Back to the Windows users, a lot of them will dismiss any strange activity to, "that's just Windows!" and ignore it or format again and again only to see the same APT infected activity continue. Using older versions of sysinternals, I've observed very bizarre behavior on a few non networked systems, a mysterious chat program running which doesn't exist on the system, all communication methods monitored (bluetooth, your hard/software modems, and more), disk mirroring software running[1], scans running on different but specific file types, command line versions of popular Windows freeware installed on the system rather than the use of the graphical component, and more.

[1] In one anonymous post on pastebin, claiming to be from an intel org, it blasted the group Anonymous, with a bunch of threats and information, including that their systems are all mirrored in some remote location anyway.

[2] Or other government, US used in this case due to the article source and speculation vs. China. This is not to defend China, which is one messed up hell hole on several levels and we all need to push for human rights and freedom for China's people. For other, freer countries, however, the concentration camps exist but you wouldn't notice them, they originate from media, mostly your TV, and you don't even know it. As George Carlin railed about "Our Owners", "nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care".

[3] http://www.stallman.org/ [stallman.org]

Try this yourself on a wide variety of internet forums and mailing lists, push for malware scanners to scan more than files, but firmware/BIOS. See what happens, I can guarantee it won't be pleasant, especially with APT cases.

So scan away, or blissfully ignore it, but we need more people like RMS[3] in the world. Such individuals tend to be eccentric but their words ring true and clear about electronics and freedom.

I believe we're mostly pwned, whether we would like to admit it or not, blind and pwned, yet fiercely holding to misinformation, often due to lack of self discovery and education, and "nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care".

##

Schneier has covered it before: power line fluctuations (differences on the wire in keys pressed).

There's thermal attacks against cpus and temp, also:

ENF (google it)

A treat (ENF Collector in Java):

sourceforge dot net fwdslash projects fwdslash nfienfcollector

No single antimalware scanner exists which offers the ability to scan (mostly proprietary) firmware on AGP/PCI devices (sound cards, graphics cards, usb novelty devices excluding thumb drives), BIOS/CMOS.

If you boot into ultimate boot cd you can use an archane text interface to dump BIOS/CMOS and examine/checksum.

The real attacks which survive disk formats and wipes target your PCI devices and any firmware which may be altered/overwritten with something special. It is not enough to scan your hard drive(s) and thumb drives, the real dangers with teeth infect your hardware devices.

When is the last time you:

Audited your sound card for malware?
Audited your graphics card for malware?
Audited your network card for malware?

Google for:

* AGP and PCI rootkit(s)
* Network card rootkit(s)
* BIOS/CMOS rootkit(s)

Our modern PC hardware is capable of much more than many can imagine.

Do you:

* Know your router's firmware may easily be replaced on a hacker's whim?
* Shield all cables against leakage and attacks
* Still use an old CRT monitor and beg for TEMPEST attacks?
* Use TEMPEST resistant fonts in all of your applications including your OS?
* Know whether or not your wired keyboard has keypresses encrypted as they pass to your PC from the keyboard?
* Use your PC on the grid and expose yourself to possible keypress attacks?
* Know your network card is VERY exploitable when plugged into the net and attacked by a hard core blackhat or any vicious geek with the know how?
* Search out informative papers on these subjects and educate your friends and family about these attacks?
* Contact antimalware companies and urge them to protect against many or all these attacks?

Do you trust your neighbors? Are they all really stupid when it comes to computing or is there a geek or two without a conscience looking to exploit these areas?

The overlooked threat are the potential civilian rogues stationed around you, especially in large apartment blocks who feed on unsecured wifi to do their dirty work.

With the recent news of Russian spies, whether or not this news was real or a psyop, educate yourself on the present threats which all antimalware scanners fail to protect against and remove any smug mask you may wear, be it Linux or OpenBSD, or the proprietary Windows and Mac OS you feel are properly secured and not vulnerable to any outside attacks because you either don't need an antivirus scanner (all are inept to serious attacks) or use one or several (many being proprietary mystery machines sending data to and from your machine for many reasons, one is to share your information with a group or set database to help aid in threats), the threats often come in mysterious ways.

Maybe the ancients had it right: stone tablets and their own unique language(s) rooted in symbolism.

#

I'm more concerned about new rootkits which target PCI devices, such as the graphics card and the optical drives, also, BIOS. Where are the malware scanners which scan PCI devices and BIOS for mismatches? All firmware, BIOS and on PCI devices should be checksummed and saved to match with others in the cloud, and archived when the computer is first used, backing up signed firmware.

When do you recall seeing signed router firmware upgrades with any type of checksum to check against? Same for PCI devices and optical drives and BIOS.

Some have begun with BIOS security:

http://www.biosbits.org/ [biosbits.org]

Some BIOS has write protection in its configuration, a lot of newer computers don't.

#

"Disconnect your PC from the internet and don't add anything you didn't create yourself. It worked for the NOC list machine in Mission Impossible"

The room/structure was likely heavily shielded, whereas most civvies don't shield their house and computer rooms. There is more than meets the eye to modern hardware.

Google:

subversion hack:
tagmeme(dot)com/subhack/

network card rootkits and trojans
pci rootkits
packet radio
xmit "fm fingerprinting" software
"specific emitter identification"
forums(dot)qrz(dot)com

how many malware scanners scan bios/cmos and pci/agp cards for malware? zero, even the rootkit scanners. have you checksummed/dumped your bios/cmos and firmware for all your pci/agp devices and usb devices, esp vanity usb devices in and outside the realm of common usb devices (thumbdrives, external hdds, printers),

Unless your computer room is shielded properly, the computers may still be attacked and used, I've personally inspected computers with no network connection running mysterious code in the background which task manager for windows and the eqiv for *nix does not find, and this didn't find it all.

Inspect your windows boot partition in *nix with hexdump and look for proxy packages mentioned along with command line burning programs and other oddities. Computers are more vulnerable than most would expect.

You can bet all of the malware scanners today, unless they are developed by some lone indy coder in a remote country, employ whitelisting of certain malware and none of them scan HARDWARE devices apart from the common usb devices.

Your network cards, sound cards, cd/dvd drives, graphics cards, all are capable of carrying malware to survive disk formatting/wiping.

Boot from a Linux live cd and use hexdump to examine your windows (and *nix) boot sectors to potentially discover interesting modifications by an unknown party.

#
eof

I don't know nor care what you think (1)

OhANameWhatName (2688401) | about 2 years ago | (#41220037)

But 2 of the EVILESTEST countries in the WHOLE WORLD corroborating to DEFEND THEMSELVES is provocation enough! The time for talk is over! We need to stop IRAN from threatening the peace of the world. It's too late for invasion, we MUST make IRAN the ultimate sacrifice!

I have an idea (2)

slashmydots (2189826) | about 2 years ago | (#41220071)

They should buy out McAfee. Everyone already hates McAfee so it'd be a perfect fit. By the way, nobody in human history has teamed up to stop malware in any form ever. They'd have to fire all their human employees and get rid of all their computers, lol.
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