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OpenSUSE 12.2 Is Out

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the lizard-people-conspiracy dept.

Operating Systems 96

First time accepted submitter jospoortvliet writes with news of a new openSUSE release. From the release announcement: "Two months of extra stabilization work have resulted into a stellar release, chock-full of goodies, yet stable as you all like it. The latest release of the world's most powerful and flexible Linux Distribution brings you speed-ups across the board with a faster storage layer in Linux 3.4 and accelerated functions in glibc and Qt, giving a more fluid and responsive desktop. The infrastructure below openSUSE has evolved, bringing in newly matured technologies like GRUB2 and Plymouth and the first steps in the direction of a revised and simplified UNIX file system hierarchy. Users will also notice the added polish to existing features bringing an improved user experience all over. The novel Btrfs file system comes with improved error handling and recovery tools. KDE has improved its stability, GNOME 3.4, developing rapidly, brings smooth scrolling to all applications and features a reworked System Settings and Contacts manager while XFCE has an enhanced application finder. Download openSUSE 12.2 from any of our mirrors."

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Can I connect to a wireless network without root? (2, Insightful)

MetalliQaZ (539913) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237143)

Also, has the Yast GUI been fixed to make some kind of sense?

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (0)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237519)

TFS says it runs different desktops; take your pick. The last time I tried Suse was ten years ago. I would have liked it if half of my hardware would have worked (especially the video card). I think I'll give it another try, I have to downgrade kubuntu anyway since the latest upgrade broke Flash, and Amarok now freezes the PC if I leave it running for more than a few days. If Suse gives me trouble I'll just reinstall the earlier kubuntu (I shouldn't have upgraded, it was working fine).

Yeah, I know, I need more memory... but this isn't Windows. It should just work, like Mandrake always did. Aramok needs to work on their memory leaks.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237539)

Yes, KNetworkManager has connected to wireless networks without root privileges since forever.

GUI - "some kind of sense" is subjective and vague. Here's a current screenshot from YaST 2.21.24 in openSUSE 12.1: http://i.imgur.com/06QLC.png [imgur.com] Point out what you don't like or what you think needs to be improved.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (1, Troll)

denvergeek (1184943) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237567)

I don't speak German you insensitive clod!

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237583)

I don't speak German you insensitive clod!

You could also read in silence.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (1)

TheNinjaroach (878876) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237737)

I haven't had to use a root password to change WiFi networks in... ever?

The latest software updates on my 12.1 (finally) removed the need to provide root password for VPN access.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41238015)

At least OpenSUSE will let you find out your IPaddr without root access. Try that with Ubuntu! (you can't).

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41238165)

That's funny, /sbin/ifconfig eth0 as a normal user works on Ubuntu.. and openSUSE, and Debian, and pretty much every Linux distribution, everywhere.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41239069)

Some distros have actually started replacing ifconfig (net-tools) with ip (iproute2). But yeah, you can use ip as non-root as well.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (1)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 2 years ago | (#41239107)

At least OpenSUSE will let you find out your IPaddr without root access. Try that with Ubuntu! (you can't).

Yes you can. "ifconfig" and "ip address" in a terminal work just fine for a standard user. The network control panels for the different DE's I've used in Ubuntu have always been able to provide this information, as well.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41238057)

thats cause you're using traditional network management... for wireless network without root you need to use network-manager based control... ie gnome-nm-applet or kde network applet.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41238399)

I think you misunderstand what Yast is these days. It's for the quickening of the tasks you might want to do as a sysadmin. Need to enable X forwarding for SSH? You can dig up the location of the config file, find the appropriate line, and type in the appropriate word to enable it (yes, enable, y, or on?) or you can go to Yast, hit SSH, check X forwarding and be done with it.
Need to run VNC like an X session? Yast can do it in about 3 seconds. The GUI makes more sense than googling around, editing a config file, cutting/pasting something you found on a forum, and crossing your fingers.
TV card not automatically detected? Easy with yast, no sudo modprobing blues.

But that's not the reason to use openSUSE. The reason to use openSUSE is you can go to http://www.susestudio.com and spin your own distro in about 10 minutes running every piece of software you want and no software you don't.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (1)

Javaman59 (524434) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243825)

Also, has the Yast GUI been fixed to make some kind of sense?

It always made sense to me. It's one of the top 3 reasons I stick with openSuse. The "pattern" concept in recent YaSTs is a little confusing at first (only because it complicates the GUI) - but once you've used it you don't want to go back.

YaST seems to combine the best of Windows style configuration GUI's, with a better view of the underlying mechanisms, and it put's everything in one place in a way that I've not encountered elsewhere in Windows or Linux.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (1)

pnutjam (523990) | more than 2 years ago | (#41246473)

I also like that YAST is consistent with GUI or console. I haven't tried the webyast tet.

Re:Can I connect to a wireless network without roo (1)

Javaman59 (524434) | more than 2 years ago | (#41253677)

I also like that YAST is consistent with GUI or console. I haven't tried the webyast tet.

Good points! You reminded me of the console YaST. I use that often to do some admin on a server through ssh, without starting the GUI. It's a brilliant tool.

I didn't know about webyast. Thanks for the tip.

A horrible UI (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237153)

I don't know why these guys think I want metro but I can say, as a slashdot computer expert, that metro is the worst UI ever and now microsoft will go bankrupt because I don't like it.

If I wanted my computer to be easier to use i wouldnt be using linux in the first place.

When will they just fucking learn and create awkward disjointed and confusing interfaces that make me feel smart and compensate for my actual lack of computer programming skills?

Fucking astroturfer mod points all modding me down and affecting my important linux karma, its all bullshit.

Re:A horrible UI (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237283)

I agree, and as an autist sperglord, I demand that my release summaries contain as many acronyms as possible. Crapple iSheeple iDiots, hold on while I remove my battery from my Samsung Galaxy S III 4G One X Nexus Epic Touch Prime MAXX LTE with Beats by Dre since it froze up again.

GNOME? (2)

fustakrakich (1673220) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237157)

FOOD FIGHT!

Re:GNOME? (1)

Goodyob (2445598) | more than 2 years ago | (#41239009)

But they fixed GNOME3, it's working fine now

Re:GNOME? (1)

f16c (13581) | more than 2 years ago | (#41242009)

I thought Gnome was permanently broken... Which is why we use KDE or LXDE at my house. Which Gnome anyway? Didn't Ubuntu kill the current one off?

I have three GUI setups on this system: KDE, LXDE and Enlightenment. The wife and kids use KDE. I use LXDE and Enlightenment.

BTRFS in your face (1)

ne0n (884282) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237179)

Snapper looks like a nifty tool, but does using it still open up the user to constant ENOSPC denial of services? Still have to constantly rebalance your BTRFS when using RAID?

Not 2008 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237223)

The headline speeches last night in Charlotte were a mayor nobody has heard of and First Lady Michelle Obama. Last night and this morning, the media are tripping over each other to heap praise on Mrs. Obama's speech, which was mostly a rehash of her speech in 2008, albeit with newly remembered money struggles. She gave a strong performance, but, unfortunately for the Democrats, not many people saw it. Overall, the speech attracted around 11 million viewers on the three broadcast networks. That's about 400,000 fewer viewers than watch Ann Romney's speech. But, the really bad news for Obama, is the massive drop in viewers from 2008.

NBC won the coverage, as it did for the RNC last week. But, its viewership was down 24% from 08. For its RNC coverage on the first night, its viewership was actually 8% higher than 08. CBS and ABC have even starker declines, dropping 45% and 38% respectively, compared to 08. Their coverage of the RNC was down also, but a more modest 25% and 38% from 08.

Obviously, people don't only view these events on the three broadcast networks. There is C-SPAN and a number of cable news stations also carry the speech. Still, the apples-to-apples comparison is striking. So, on the three broadcast networks, the RNC had more viewers. This, mind you, is before counting the viewers who watched on Fox News.

Of course, close observers of the political race shouldn't be surprised. The Democrats have been facing a very significant enthusiasm gap among their voters. Obama's rallies take place in venues far smaller than those in 2008. This morning, the Dems even cancelled their plans for another big-stadium Obama speech to close out the convention. Of course, they cite the 30% of rain in the forecast as the reason for the move to a much smaller venue. Its a convenient excuse since there had been reports organizers were struggling to fill the stadium.

2012 really is shaping up as the year of the Democrat downgrade.

Re:Not 2008 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237309)

Such a hoot you losers are. You do understand these are facts don't you? And you mod down FACTS?

Suck it up commies.

Re:Not 2008 (1)

maeglin (23145) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237719)

Such a hoot you losers are. You do understand these are facts don't you? And you mod down FACTS?

Suck it up commies.

Huh? Only one bit was actually numbers (actually somewhat interesting numbers, if true). The rest was opinion -- some of it conflicting. E.g., so does the writer think the speech was a rehash being overly praised, or a strong performance? I can't tell, both are stated.

Anywho, it doesn't matter as it has nothing to do with SuSE. It should be down-moded, as should yours as well as mine. If you want to be a dipshit political nonsense troll, go over to WaPo forums or the DailyKos. You'll have more fun over there and /. readers will enjoy their afternoons free of numbskulls that don't even know their target audience (victims) well enough to know that there needs to be an Apple, Google or MS tie-in.

E.g., Have you noticed how RNC podium was rectangular with rounded corners but the DNC podium was not. Makes you think... I know for sure I won't be voting for the anti-IP "Google" party.

Re:Not 2008 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237745)

maeglin why dont you fuck off to cambodia you stupid commie egg sucker

Re:Not 2008 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237867)

No, comparison of viewership of 2008 and 2012 speeches at party conventions is the point of the post and takes up most of the post - hardly a 'bit'. And yes these are facts.

I don't want to go to WaPo forums or the DailyKos, I want you commies to read this (you meaning the general not the specific you).

And hey genius, there is an Apple, Google or MS tie-in, if Obama wins he taxes them all to death, if he loses we have a chance to keep these companies.

I will post wherever I want. Suck it up.

Re:Not 2008 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41238171)

you are probably gay. you will post wherever you want. lol. wow you must feel so powerful, a change from your day to day as jizzmopper, glory hole attendant, power bottom. I bet you wear a cape while you troll.
fact

Re:Not 2008 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41238345)

Why do you hate our country?

Re:Not 2008 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41239339)

Because it's home to idiots like you.

Where is the new XFCE iso? (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237273)

I see new versions for everything except XFCE

Re:Where is the new XFCE iso? (5, Informative)

houghi (78078) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237369)

There never WAS an official XFCE ISO. There are several way to get XFCE without installing the rest
1) Download the DVD and do the installation. During installation you select Other instead of KDE/GNOME and select XFCE or LXDE there
2) Do a network install and select XFCE or LXDE just like above
2a) http://www.houghi.org/ssh/install.php [houghi.org] and then do the same as above. Basically this is a network install without the iso.
3) Wait for http://susestudio.com/ [susestudio.com] to have 12.2 available and make your own image.

openSUSE 11.4 is better (2)

garglblaster (459708) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237307)

haven't tried 12.2 yet and guess I won't:

DID try 12.1 quite a lot and was terribly disappointed.

Reformated harddrive and reinstalled 11.4 - and HAPPY!

WHY?

11.4 has GNOME 2 - Now THAT's a GREAT UI.

(At least when seeing the alternatives)

Re:openSUSE 11.4 is better (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237389)

Shut the fuck up, fanny bandit. Stop being a cock-smoking teabgager and pay your fucking $699 licensing fee!L

Re:openSUSE 11.4 is better (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237495)

Its not as good as metro or an iphone you poseur faggot trying to sound smart on slash dot

Re:openSUSE 11.4 is better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237683)

I'm glad I don't have to put up with that Linux nonsense. What's all this Gnome crap about anyway? If I'm using a Unix-like OS I want command line, dagnabbit!

Re:openSUSE 11.4 is better (1)

icebike (68054) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237703)

Yes the 11.2 and 11.4 were very good releases. But that is pretty normal for OpenSuse. Really good releases interspersed with an occasional not so good developmental release.

I suspect 12.2 will be pretty good based on all the fixes applied and lessons learned from the early 12.x versions.

Re:openSUSE 11.4 is better (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 2 years ago | (#41238265)

Early 12.x releases? There was only 12.1. And release versions are just numbers. They have nothing to do with release version numbers that people think. That is also the reason they stopped using the X.0 release.

People thought that that meant something and it didn't. The first release was 4.2 for S.u.S.E. with version 0.42 version of YaST.

I personally liked 12.1 better then 11.4. So obviously YMMV.

But then I run XFCE and not their flagships KDE or GNOME who are both horrible in my not so humble opinion.

Support? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237973)

And how much longer is 11.4 supported? Quick google of wiki suggests that ends next month...

This could form the basis of an Ask Slashdot: Since there's a whole lot of love here for Gnome 2.x, what's the distro that'll be last standing for that GUI?

Disclaimer: I'm using Ubuntu 10.04, which means I'll finally have to decide what GUI to jump to next in April.

Re:Support? (2)

Shimbo (100005) | more than 2 years ago | (#41238759)

And how much longer is 11.4 supported? Quick google of wiki suggests that ends next month...

2 later releases + 2 months [opensuse.org] -> 5th November 2012.

Re:Support? (1)

mikechant (729173) | more than 2 years ago | (#41246515)

Since there's a whole lot of love here for Gnome 2.x, what's the distro that'll be last standing for that GUI?

Probably RHEL or clones CentOS etc.

E.g. RHEL 6 and CentOS V6, with Gnome 2, are supported until November 2020

If you want something a bit more up-to-date with out of the box multimedia support etc. then the LTS version of Mint with Gnome 2 'clone' MATE is supported until April 2017 (and it's probable/possible MATE will work with the following LTS version, due Apr 2014 and supported until 2019).

Babies and bath water (1)

JOrgePeixoto (853808) | more than 2 years ago | (#41240915)

DID try 12.1 quite a lot and was terribly disappointed.

Reformated harddrive and reinstalled 11.4 - and HAPPY!

WHY?

11.4 has GNOME 2 - Now THAT's a GREAT UI.

If you hate Gnome 3, it is better to switch to XFCE, or LXDE, or KDE than to cling to an obsolete OS.

Re:Babies and bath water (1)

ssam (2723487) | more than 2 years ago | (#41247197)

> If you hate Gnome 3, it is better to switch to XFCE, or LXDE, or KDE than to cling to an obsolete OS.

i respectfully disagree, GNOME2 (or MATE) has a lot of features that are missing in XFCE and LXDE. Its also had millions of man hours more testing, and so is very stable and works deep into corner cases. In a few years time XFCE or LXDE may catch up with GNOME2 in terms of features (if thats what they want to do (i am not sure it is)), or GNOME3 might be customisable to please the grumpy old men^{tm}. Until then i dont see any harm in sticking with what works. There are several distros where it easy to run MATE with a new kernel and everything else.

Actually MATE development is quite active, it has picked up some interesting features, and is gradually porting to newer libraries. it can't be to long before people get grumpy with the changes in MATE and create a new fork :-)

Anecdotal works-well (4, Interesting)

Beleglin (88115) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237405)

It seems that it was worth it to delay the release with few weeks. This 12.2 release works really well on brand new Ultrabook (in this case Samsung Series 5). Recent hardware including Intel HD 4000, and new chipset - I guess it is thanks to Intel's open source drivers (and of course hard work of packagers) that experience is this good.

Maybe Year of Desktop Linux is near?

Re:Anecdotal works-well (1)

f16c (13581) | more than 2 years ago | (#41242115)

That's good to hear. I've skipped every other release and only done the upgrade after the system was getting real crusty. I have a nice backup setup now and upgrading every other year or so seems pretty reasonable as long as the system still makes sense. I've stuck with Suse since 1998 or so. Back then it was the distribution that was the most complete out of the box.

I'll wait for the core to stabilize for a few months and then do the update during the winter break. Setting up openSuse 12.1only took a few hours to get the final pieces to work and was mostly flawless. Best in a long time for me. 11.4 gave me headaches because of the NVIDIA open source driver and the crap I went through to switch to the proprietary X drivers. They may get it stable some day but I actually USE my system.

KDE 3 Support? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237653)

Does 12.2 still support KDE 3? In 12.1 you could install KDE 3 as a supported desktop environment and it was way better than of the new DE garbage out there.

Re:KDE 3 Support? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237791)

Yes! It ships KDE 3.5.10 with improvements to make it work with upower and udisks.

Geico (5, Funny)

puddingebola (2036796) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237665)

Why does Geico have a Linux distro?

Re:Geico (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237885)

The gecko Geeko [opensuse.org] has been the SUSE mascot since a long time.

Re:Geico (1)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237903)

"I'm an aspie who can't spot a joke."

Re:Geico (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41241101)

Everybody on Slashdot is a self-diagnosed aspie.

"Asperger's Syndrome": The one pseudo-condition that all geeks crave for themselves.

Geek: "I am an aspie. No, really, I am. Now shut up and smell my geek cred! Ahhhhh...."

Re:Geico (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41242117)

"Asperger's Syndrome": The one pseudo-condition that all geeks crave for themselves.

A men.
Too bad we are just two AC's flailing in the wind, the truth will be buried in the slashtarded muck.

Aspie==Jerk. There is no condition here. move along....yes, asshole, even you. Stop being a jerk, hoping for pity sex.

Plymouth is 'newly matured', eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237687)

Certainly, less than two months ago one person's verdict on the Ubuntu distribution of Plymouth [adams.edu] was that 'clearly at least one Ubuntu maintainer is smoking crack'. One hopes the OpenSUSE situation is a more sensible one...

Re:Plymouth is 'newly matured', eh? (1)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237861)

Lucid is from April 2010. That's not 2 months ago.

Re:Plymouth is 'newly matured', eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41240159)

Last edited Mon 30 Jul 2012 04:17:23 PM MDT

From less than two months ago. And the most recent comments on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/556372 are from last month.

More Informative Title (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237695)

"OpenSUSE 12.2 is Out" is a notice, not a news story title. A better title: "A Review for the Just Released OpenSUSE 12.2."

Woohoo! (2)

TheNinjaroach (878876) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237757)

OpenSUSE is my favorite distro by quite a bit. I look forward to using 12.2 the next time I install Linux.

My favorite was 10.3 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237865)

it had KDE3

apparently kde is still available (1)

Chirs (87576) | more than 2 years ago | (#41238217)

in 12.2. See earlier comments.

Re:apparently kde is still available (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41245879)

Indeed KDE is available, no one said the contrary. Anyhow, the support for KDE is the main reason I have using SuSE / OpenSuse for 12 years now.

It's such a great piece of software that I have even "joined the game". KDE users: have you?

Great news! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41237905)

I'm sure that both users will be very excited.

Re:Great news! (1)

Stachybotris (936861) | more than 2 years ago | (#41237957)

I wish I was joking, but I have clients who insist on running OpenSuSE. I think their justification had something to do with mono... Fortunately I don't manage their servers, so it never comes up except when they lock themselves out.

i'm making it my linux (5, Funny)

shadowrat (1069614) | more than 2 years ago | (#41238043)

I've been using ubuntu because their silly alphabet animal names were entertaining. I don't know why i never really thought about opensuse before though. Their little chameleon logo is CUTE AS A BUTTON! I'm a convert!

Re:i'm making it my linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41238291)

and they got plushies!

Re:i'm making it my linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41239809)

Are you trolling or do you actually pick your distro based off of it's name/logo?

Re:i'm making it my linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41245747)

It's as good a criterium as any.

Plymouth & grub2, no thanks (2, Insightful)

GrumpyOldMan (140072) | more than 2 years ago | (#41238353)

Maybe I'm just old and grumpy, but all of this fancy new crap that obfuscates the boot process really ticks me off. If a machine has trouble booting, the last thing I want is some fancy gui with a pretty stop-watch ticking endlessly at me, rather than seeing "NFS server foo not responding" in black and white. So now rather than having just the actual problem to fix, I've got to use a second machine to figure out how to shut off the god damned gui (or how to get into the grub menu) before I can even get a hint what the actual problem might be.

Now get off my lawn.

Re:Plymouth & grub2, no thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41238611)

The BSDs are a great fit for you then. Bootsplashes aren't exactly what are prioritised in BSD-land.

Re:Plymouth & grub2, no thanks (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41238771)

Press esc.
Now get out of the way of progress

Re:Plymouth & grub2, no thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41286963)

I take it that you haven't actually tried your own recommendation.

I totally recognize grandparent's woes. When I press escape on my system, there is a blank screen for the duration of the boot. Then just before X starts, I see some text flashing by. The flash of text is visible for about one frame (1/60 second), not quite enough to be useful. This is on Ubuntu 11.4 (which also uses Plymouth).

Re:Plymouth & grub2, no thanks (2)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 2 years ago | (#41238801)

Or you could hit the escape key.

Re:Plymouth & grub2, no thanks (1)

syntap (242090) | more than 2 years ago | (#41239223)

Agreed, I preferred it when my hosed system just froze on bootup, stopping at "L I ".

Re:Plymouth & grub2, no thanks (1)

jonadab (583620) | more than 2 years ago | (#41242573)

I can understand the objection to Plymouth. (Animations on the boot-up screen? Seriously? Are we making a distro for nine-year-old girls now, or what?) Hopefully that's optional.

Grub2, however, doesn't seem like a problem to me. It's been in the distro I use (Debian stable) for seven months now, and I've got it on my main workstations at home and at work, two desktops I maintain that are used by other people (*numerous* other people), six special-purpose kiosks (used by the general public), a web server, and a mail server. If it made boot-time problems hard to diagnose, I think I'd have probably noticed by now. Admittedly, the servers and my workstations don't reboot often, but the other systems all get turned off at night. Some of them are running on fairly old hardware (I believe the oldest kiosk is vintage 2003), so there _have_ been occasional issues that I had to resolve. I don't think Grub2 complicated this at all.

Re:Plymouth & grub2, no thanks (1)

jospoortvliet (1613525) | more than 2 years ago | (#41249563)

I tend to agree and disable plymouth on my systems. I also use Dracut (from factory, to test it) which makes that easy and makes booting even faster :D

Re:Plymouth & grub2, no thanks (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 2 years ago | (#41282901)

Both are optional. Grub1 is still available. In fact Grub is not touched at all when upgrading.

Open bug list is scary (3)

stan_qaz (2482542) | more than 2 years ago | (#41238461)

Check the bug tracker here: https://bugzilla.novell.com/buglist.cgi?&query_format=advanced&order=Importance&field0-0-0=op_sys&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=openSUSE&resolution=---&product=openSUSE%2012.2&classification=openSUSE [novell.com] - Lots of critical and major bugs left that can leave you with an unusable system until you figure out the poblem and find the work-around for it.

Re:Open bug list is scary (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41238843)

I installed the Release Candidate for 12.2 about 3 weeks ago on a new machine. Been really smooth so far. KDE with sandybridge graphics is a really good, glitch free desktop. One amusing issue its the notification applet producing a popup to announce that konsole has rung the bell.

Last Friday I got caught out though. I had created an LVM snapshot of the root file system and it seems the dm_snapshot module has been omitted from initramfs. The kernel won't mount a volume from which a snapshot is derived (because the kernel is obligated to COW segments to maintain the snapshot) without that module so the system was unbootable.

Took a bit to figure that one out. Boot the live CD, delete the snapshot and all was well.

I'd give it a month or two if you're not ready to cope with stuff like that. Otherwise I agree with the characterization from the story; 12.2 looks like a good release.

Do not want (0)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | more than 2 years ago | (#41239447)

I read "revized filesystem heirarchy" and recoiled, this is code word for "Lets change all of the layout to confuse everyone for no good reason becasue we are trying to be cute, using directory names like /OpenSuse System/My Wonderful Applications/Mozilla Firefox/Mozilla Firefox.exe, and /All of My Application Configuration Files/Mozilla Firefox, and all sorts of long names, that are a pain to type, and as well, perhaps confusing things and making things hard to find by failing to keep things well categorized like Unix has been known for.

Basically the directory heirarchy is fine and there is no reason or need to change it so anyone who says they want to change it is creating more problems for users because they think its a good idea to force their whims on everyone else.

Most common users won't use the heirarchy since they will launch programs with the start menu and most applications they use have a series of quick link buttons such as for Documents directory on the left side of the file dialogs anyway.

Re:Do not want (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41239867)

I believe this means they're implementing the draft version of FHS 3.0, which hadn't been changed since 2004.

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/lsb/fhs-30-draft-1

Re:Do not want (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41240355)

Actually it just means they're eliminating the distinction between /foo and /usr/foo, which has always caused more problems than it solved (quick, is "#! /bin/env" or "#! /usr/bin/env" correct? What about for bash?) -- but don't let mere facts get in the way of a good rant.

Re:Do not want (1)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | more than 2 years ago | (#41241505)

This served a purpose. it kept the core utilities seperate from the add-ons, so you had a seperate directory with a core system needed to have a basic running system with a command line, like ls, seperate from all the other stuff like Openoffice and Firefox. You should be able to have a minimum useable system with just /foo directories, for instance. This can help with troubleshooting purposes, and possibly allowing these to be placed in seperate disks, you could copy out /foo and place it on a small disk and then you could mount /usr/foo later.

If you think that this seperation is not useful,. you clearly do not know what you are talking about. It also shows that OpenSUSE people are just messing things up because they dont know what the hell they are doing.

Re:Do not want (1)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | more than 2 years ago | (#41241559)

As for your other concern, symlinking the items in /bin to /usr/bin could address that, or sh-bang feature like #!bash or #!(allpaths)bash that would just then search all of the paths for bash.

Re:Do not want (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243811)

Er, the shebang trick you are looking for is "#!/usr/bin/env bash", and it has been there for like forever. There might be an awful lot of scripts to comb through and fix, because nobody is in the habit of doing shell scripts that way. It's frequently seen in python scripts.

I Guess I'll Have To (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41240337)

I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and perform this gut wrenching upgrade. I'm presently running 11.3 and they've dropped support for a while now. I just hate the upgrade process.

1. Oh, you should really install from scratch. We wouldn't want anything bad to happen to your upgrade.(and it will)
2. Everything you spent days getting to work last time will be broken again. Audio, video, fonts, Plymouth(what the fuck for?)...
3. You'll love the way that KDE and Gnome have changed absolutely everything so the default apps are all new(read broken and incomplete and the old apps are incompatible).

I swear to God I'm seriously thinking of going to Windows for the first time since 1998. But, that pile of crap is about to do the exact same shit with the release of Windows 8. Perhaps it's time to buy a Mac. Oh for God's sake! Has it really come to this?

Re:I Guess I'll Have To (2)

fnj (64210) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243971)

Gee. Isn't life tough. As I remember from eons ago, Windows is AT LEAST as wrenching. If you're REALLY serious about stability, reliability and freedom from bloat a la systemd, udev, plymouth, la de da, and are willing to invest time up front in return for that continuing stability, allow me to suggest trying out FreeBSD [freebsd.org] or its desktop friendly derivative, PC-BSD [pcbsd.org] . This would require some real dedication to learn the idiosyncracies. Just to clear one thing up, FreeBSD isn't rocket science to install a DE on. I was doing it a decade ago without much trouble. It doesn't hold your hand and automate everything like PC-BSD does, though.

If you mostly just want a linux desktop that doesn't put you through effing with big changes every year to stay supported, you could do what I did. Install Redhat Enterprise 6 or any of its free derivatives (notably CentOS [centos.org] , Scientific Linux [scientificlinux.org] , PUIAS Linux [ias.edu] ). That way you're good to stay on the same major release, fully supported, hardware-and-feature-back-ported, bug-fixed, and security-updated with good old GNOME 2.32 to at least 2017. I'm a little worried about what RHEL 7's default desktop will look like when it rolls out maybe some time during 2014, but I'm very confident you'll just be able to choose Xfce (as you can now in 6), and anyway there's really no need to make the jump from 6 to 7 until 2017.

Re:I Guess I'll Have To (1)

mikechant (729173) | more than 2 years ago | (#41246671)

with good old GNOME 2.32 to at least 2017

2020 according to this:
http://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/General#head-fe8a0be91ee3e7dea812e8694491e1dde5b75e6d [centos.org]

Re:I Guess I'll Have To (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 2 years ago | (#41257209)

Upstream (the hat that is red) drops software enhancements and some of the new hardware enablement in the middle of year 6, drops minor releases and all new hardware enablement in the middle of year 7, and drops essentially (but not QUITE) everything at the beginning of year 10 - notable security fixes and bug fixes. It is unlikely in the extreme that any downstream guy is going to step up to fill in the voids. They never have so far with RHEL 6.

So it depends on what you are relying on. I chose the middle-of-year-7 crippling as the operative cutoff point most users will key on, though yes, some will want to hang on until year 10 since they are still getting security fixes. Though three years with no hardware enablement is going to turn off the enthusiast.

Even 7 years is still pretty damn good, though not as long as the anomaly that is XP, and even 10 years won't match XP's 13.

Re:I Guess I'll Have To (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41245727)

From 11.3? Your upgrade will fail, unless you work through each upgrade manually (11.3-11.4->12.1->12.2), otherwise various conversions will not be done. You need a clean install.

Tried it last night. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244309)

It's rubbish. As expected.

They should change its name to "openShithead".

Re:Tried it last night. (1)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | more than 2 years ago | (#41255593)

Some verifiable facts, examples and explanations, or you're full of shit.

Re:Tried it last night. (1)

baileydau (1037622) | more than 2 years ago | (#41257925)

Some verifiable facts, examples and explanations, or you're full of shit.

My money's on the latter ...

SUSE & OpenSUSE? (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#41245177)

This is one distro I've not followed. What's the difference b/w SUSE & OpenSUSE?

Re:SUSE & OpenSUSE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41245953)

It's the same thing. SuSE used to have a more closed developmental process, but some time during Novell's ownership, it become fully open-source and renamed the community version to OpenSUSE. Novell (which was acquired by Attachmate) sells a commercial version, SUSE Linux Enterprise. You should try it out some time. I like it a lot because it arguably has the best KDE experience with the latest releases, but its GNOME, XFCE and other environments are also great, even for power users.

Re:SUSE & OpenSUSE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41246941)

SUSE is mainly SUSE Linux Enterprise which is comercial distribution with less packages and much longer support. openSUSE (mind the lowercase o at the beggining) is community driven distribution SLE is based upon

Re:SUSE & OpenSUSE? (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 2 years ago | (#41282975)

This is one distro I've not followed. What's the difference b/w SUSE & OpenSUSE?

The same as Red Hat (Enterprise Linux) and Fedora.

Opensuse 12.2 (1)

Atyq (2733523) | more than 2 years ago | (#41379083)

It took a long time to finish the version...
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