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Did Sweden Pay Cambodia For the Pirate Bay Co-founder?

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the money-makes-the-world-go-round dept.

Piracy 250

An anonymous reader writes "At the start of this month, news broke that The Pirate Bay co-founder Gottfrid Svartholm had been arrested in Cambodia. A bunch of updates followed, including that Svartholm would be deported to Sweden, and that the two countries of course collaborated on his capture. The latest tidbit, as of today, is the craziest one yet: Sweden essentially paid Cambodia tens of millions of dollars. The Government of Sweden has agreed to give 400 million Swedish Kronor ($59.4 million) to Cambodia for various reasons, including democratic development, human rights, education, environment protection, climate change, sustainable development, and poverty reduction. You name it (just don't say international arrests)."

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Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243619)

Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care - Government & Stealth Malware

In Response To Slashdot Article: Former Pentagon Analyst: China Has Backdoors To 80% of Telecoms 87

How many rootkits does the US[2] use officially or unofficially?

How much of the free but proprietary software in the US spies on you?

Which software would that be?

Visit any of the top freeware sites in the US, count the number of thousands or millions of downloads of free but proprietary software, much of it works, again on a proprietary Operating System, with files stored or in transit.

How many free but proprietary programs have you downloaded and scanned entire hard drives, flash drives, and other media? Do you realize you are giving these types of proprietary programs complete access to all of your computer's files on the basis of faith alone?

If you are an atheist, the comparison is that you believe in code you cannot see to detect and contain malware on the basis of faith! So you do believe in something invisible to you, don't you?

I'm now going to touch on a subject most anti-malware, commercial or free, developers will DELETE on most of their forums or mailing lists:

APT malware infecting and remaining in BIOS, on PCI and AGP devices, in firmware, your router (many routers are forced to place backdoors in their firmware for their government) your NIC, and many other devices.

Where are the commercial or free anti-malware organizations and individual's products which hash and compare in the cloud and scan for malware for these vectors? If you post on mailing lists or forums of most anti-malware organizations about this threat, one of the following actions will apply: your post will be deleted and/or moved to a hard to find or 'deleted/junk posts' forum section, someone or a team of individuals will mock you in various forms 'tin foil hat', 'conspiracy nut', and my favorite, 'where is the proof of these infections?' One only needs to search Google for these threats and they will open your malware world view to a much larger arena of malware on devices not scanned/supported by the scanners from these freeware sites. This point assumed you're using the proprietary Microsoft Windows OS. Now, let's move on to Linux.

The rootkit scanners for Linux are few and poor. If you're lucky, you'll know how to use chkrootkit (but you can use strings and other tools for analysis) and show the strings of binaries on your installation, but the results are dependent on your capability of deciphering the output and performing further analysis with various tools or in an environment such as Remnux Linux. None of these free scanners scan the earlier mentioned areas of your PC, either! Nor do they detect many of the hundreds of trojans and rootkits easily available on popular websites and the dark/deep web.

Compromised defenders of Linux will look down their nose at you (unless they are into reverse engineering malware/bad binaries, Google for this and Linux and begin a valuable education!) and respond with a similar tone, if they don't call you a noob or point to verifying/downloading packages in a signed repo/original/secure source or checking hashes, they will jump to conspiracy type labels, ignore you, lock and/or shuffle the thread, or otherwise lead you astray from learning how to examine bad binaries. The world of Linux is funny in this way, and I've been a part of it for many years. The majority of Linux users, like the Windows users, will go out of their way to lead you and say anything other than pointing you to information readily available on detailed binary file analysis.

Don't let them get you down, the information is plenty and out there, some from some well known publishers of Linux/Unix books. Search, learn, and share the information on detecting and picking through bad binaries. But this still will not touch the void of the APT malware described above which will survive any wipe of r/w media. I'm convinced, on both *nix and Windows, these pieces of APT malware are government in origin. Maybe not from the US, but most of the 'curious' malware I've come across in poisoned binaries, were written by someone with a good knowledge in English, some, I found, functioned similar to the now well known Flame malware. From my experience, either many forum/mailing list mods and malware developers/defenders are 'on the take', compromised themselves, and/or working for a government entity.

Search enough, and you'll arrive at some lone individuals who cry out their system is compromised and nothing in their attempts can shake it of some 'strange infection'. These posts receive the same behavior as I said above, but often they are lone posts which receive no answer at all, AT ALL! While other posts are quickly and kindly replied to and the 'strange infection' posts are left to age and end up in a lost pile of old threads.

If you're persistent, the usual challenge is to, "prove it or STFU" and if the thread is not attacked or locked/shuffled and you're lucky to reference some actual data, they will usually attack or ridicule you and further drive the discussion away from actual proof of APT infections.

The market is ripe for an ambitious company or individual to begin demanding companies and organizations who release firmware and design hardware to release signed and hashed packages and pour this information into the cloud, so everyone's BIOS is checked, all firmware on routers, NICs, and other devices are checked, and malware identified and knowledge reported and shared openly.

But even this will do nothing to stop backdoored firmware (often on commercial routers and other networked devices of real importance for government use - which again opens the possibility of hackers discovering these backdoors) people continue to use instead of refusing to buy hardware with proprietary firmware/software.

Many people will say, "the only safe computer is the one disconnected from any network, wireless, wired, LAN, internet, intranet" but I have seen and you can search yourself for and read about satellite, RF, temperature, TEMPEST (is it illegal in your part of the world to SHIELD your system against some of these APT attacks, especially TEMPEST? And no, it's not simply a CRT issue), power line and many other attacks which can and do strike computers which have no active network connection, some which have never had any network connection. Some individuals have complained they receive APT attacks throughout their disconnected systems and they are ridiculed and labeled as a nutter. The information exists, some people have gone so far as to scream from the rooftops online about it, but they are nutters who must have some serious problems and this technology with our systems could not be possible.

I believe most modern computer hardware is more powerful than many of us imagine, and a lot of these systems swept from above via satellite and other attacks. Some exploits take advantage of packet radio and some of your proprietary hardware. Some exploits piggyback and unless you really know what you're doing, and even then... you won't notice it.

Back to the Windows users, a lot of them will dismiss any strange activity to, "that's just Windows!" and ignore it or format again and again only to see the same APT infected activity continue. Using older versions of sysinternals, I've observed very bizarre behavior on a few non networked systems, a mysterious chat program running which doesn't exist on the system, all communication methods monitored (bluetooth, your hard/software modems, and more), disk mirroring software running[1], scans running on different but specific file types, command line versions of popular Windows freeware installed on the system rather than the use of the graphical component, and more.

[1] In one anonymous post on pastebin, claiming to be from an intel org, it blasted the group Anonymous, with a bunch of threats and information, including that their systems are all mirrored in some remote location anyway.

[2] Or other government, US used in this case due to the article source and speculation vs. China. This is not to defend China, which is one messed up hell hole on several levels and we all need to push for human rights and freedom for China's people. For other, freer countries, however, the concentration camps exist but you wouldn't notice them, they originate from media, mostly your TV, and you don't even know it. As George Carlin railed about "Our Owners", "nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care".

[3] []

Try this yourself on a wide variety of internet forums and mailing lists, push for malware scanners to scan more than files, but firmware/BIOS. See what happens, I can guarantee it won't be pleasant, especially with APT cases.

So scan away, or blissfully ignore it, but we need more people like RMS[3] in the world. Such individuals tend to be eccentric but their words ring true and clear about electronics and freedom.

I believe we're mostly pwned, whether we would like to admit it or not, blind and pwned, yet fiercely holding to misinformation, often due to lack of self discovery and education, and "nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care".


Schneier has covered it before: power line fluctuations (differences on the wire in keys pressed).

There's thermal attacks against cpus and temp, also:

ENF (google it)

A treat (ENF Collector in Java):

sourceforge dot net fwdslash projects fwdslash nfienfcollector

No single antimalware scanner exists which offers the ability to scan (mostly proprietary) firmware on AGP/PCI devices (sound cards, graphics cards, usb novelty devices excluding thumb drives), BIOS/CMOS.

If you boot into ultimate boot cd you can use an archane text interface to dump BIOS/CMOS and examine/checksum.

The real attacks which survive disk formats and wipes target your PCI devices and any firmware which may be altered/overwritten with something special. It is not enough to scan your hard drive(s) and thumb drives, the real dangers with teeth infect your hardware devices.

When is the last time you:

Audited your sound card for malware?
Audited your graphics card for malware?
Audited your network card for malware?

Google for:

* AGP and PCI rootkit(s)
* Network card rootkit(s)
* BIOS/CMOS rootkit(s)

Our modern PC hardware is capable of much more than many can imagine.

Do you:

* Know your router's firmware may easily be replaced on a hacker's whim?
* Shield all cables against leakage and attacks
* Still use an old CRT monitor and beg for TEMPEST attacks?
* Use TEMPEST resistant fonts in all of your applications including your OS?
* Know whether or not your wired keyboard has keypresses encrypted as they pass to your PC from the keyboard?
* Use your PC on the grid and expose yourself to possible keypress attacks?
* Know your network card is VERY exploitable when plugged into the net and attacked by a hard core blackhat or any vicious geek with the know how?
* Search out informative papers on these subjects and educate your friends and family about these attacks?
* Contact antimalware companies and urge them to protect against many or all these attacks?

Do you trust your neighbors? Are they all really stupid when it comes to computing or is there a geek or two without a conscience looking to exploit these areas?

The overlooked threat are the potential civilian rogues stationed around you, especially in large apartment blocks who feed on unsecured wifi to do their dirty work.

With the recent news of Russian spies, whether or not this news was real or a psyop, educate yourself on the present threats which all antimalware scanners fail to protect against and remove any smug mask you may wear, be it Linux or OpenBSD, or the proprietary Windows and Mac OS you feel are properly secured and not vulnerable to any outside attacks because you either don't need an antivirus scanner (all are inept to serious attacks) or use one or several (many being proprietary mystery machines sending data to and from your machine for many reasons, one is to share your information with a group or set database to help aid in threats), the threats often come in mysterious ways.

Maybe the ancients had it right: stone tablets and their own unique language(s) rooted in symbolism.


I'm more concerned about new rootkits which target PCI devices, such as the graphics card and the optical drives, also, BIOS. Where are the malware scanners which scan PCI devices and BIOS for mismatches? All firmware, BIOS and on PCI devices should be checksummed and saved to match with others in the cloud, and archived when the computer is first used, backing up signed firmware.

When do you recall seeing signed router firmware upgrades with any type of checksum to check against? Same for PCI devices and optical drives and BIOS.

Some have begun with BIOS security: []

Some BIOS has write protection in its configuration, a lot of newer computers don't.


"Disconnect your PC from the internet and don't add anything you didn't create yourself. It worked for the NOC list machine in Mission Impossible"

The room/structure was likely heavily shielded, whereas most civvies don't shield their house and computer rooms. There is more than meets the eye to modern hardware.


subversion hack:

network card rootkits and trojans
pci rootkits
packet radio
xmit "fm fingerprinting" software
"specific emitter identification"

how many malware scanners scan bios/cmos and pci/agp cards for malware? zero, even the rootkit scanners. have you checksummed/dumped your bios/cmos and firmware for all your pci/agp devices and usb devices, esp vanity usb devices in and outside the realm of common usb devices (thumbdrives, external hdds, printers),

Unless your computer room is shielded properly, the computers may still be attacked and used, I've personally inspected computers with no network connection running mysterious code in the background which task manager for windows and the eqiv for *nix does not find, and this didn't find it all.

Inspect your windows boot partition in *nix with hexdump and look for proxy packages mentioned along with command line burning programs and other oddities. Computers are more vulnerable than most would expect.

You can bet all of the malware scanners today, unless they are developed by some lone indy coder in a remote country, employ whitelisting of certain malware and none of them scan HARDWARE devices apart from the common usb devices.

Your network cards, sound cards, cd/dvd drives, graphics cards, all are capable of carrying malware to survive disk formatting/wiping.

Boot from a Linux live cd and use hexdump to examine your windows (and *nix) boot sectors to potentially discover interesting modifications by an unknown party.


Re:Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244077)

yeah but can you use a HOSTS file to help? C'mon APK sing the virtues of HOSTS files! It's important (soo very important) and I don't remember. Remind me! For the good of the internets!

but I mean .. if you can't do it you can't do it.

Re:Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244397)

Not to mention, who's to say your boot sector's being modified if you've got malware in your firmware? All that shits loaded at boot son!

Even if you buy a safe system, like a 286, and throw an old Minix on there, and manage to modify your 286 and Minix to look at today's devices... who's to say they ain't got a little extra code in there to see if they're in the middle of booting or in the middle of forensic analysis and shit and drop the right code on you for the occasion?

What you got to do is build your own router from -scratch-. I mean solder that shit right on the board! You implement your own CPU, your own memory, and you handcode the fucker from toggle switches like it's a motherfucking Altair. ICs are for chumps! Make it know what authorized traffic is and what ain't, and have it give you a big ol' klaxxon and shit when it sees something phoning home.

That's where the fuck it's at. Playin with live cds and shit, that's level 1 thinking. You gotta go 8-bit, motherfucker, right to the roots!

It's Sweden, again !! (5, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244511)

If the allegation of Sweden paying Cambodia, for them to body snatch a single person, - Gottfrid Svartholm, - so that they can then "deported" the guy back to Sweden - We would know what will happen to Mr. Julian Assange when he step on Sweden's soil --->

Mr. Assange will end up be "sold" to USA, just like Mr. Svartholm was sold to Sweden

so messed up like jelly on a hot god (1, Funny)

laserdog (2500192) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243621)

dumb sweden i bet 90% of their income is taxes made off of minecraft

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244171)

dumb sweden i bet 90% of their income is taxes made off of minecraft

no they have lots of jews and they really like the jew way of jewing things up.

so they have lots of banks. they're the banking capital of no-questions-asked jew bankville.

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244445)

So we have Bankcraft to look forward to? Loved Minecraft, but to be honest this sounds even cooler.

What's my interest rate on savings? Do I take a chance on risky mortgages or don't I? That... to be honest is about my total understanding of banks, but add a modifiable environment and working inventory system and it sounds like something I could sink another 200 hours into easy.

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god (4, Informative)

metacell (523607) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244519)

You're probably thinking about Switzerland (a republic situated in the Alps in Central Europe, known for its chocolate, watches and banking system).

Sweden (a constitutional monarchy in Northern Europe) is not known for its banking system. We do have Volvo, Ericsson and The Pirate Bay, though.

Damn Neutrals (2)

gijoel (628142) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243627)

What makes a man turn neutral Kiff? Is it lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutral?

Re:Damn Neutrals (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244633)


Greased palms (4, Informative)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243633)

Well, that kind of money should reduce the poverty of one or two government officials...

Re:Greased palms (1)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244081)

You really don't have a clue what strings come with Swedish (or other Northern Europe) money attached.

Re:Greased palms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244333)

You really don't have a clue what strings come with Swedish (or other Northern Europe) money attached.

Ones that can very easily be ignored without consequences?

The Wookie Who Shagged Me (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243637)

Memorable quotes for
Looker (1981) []

"John Reston: Television can control public opinion more effectively than armies of secret police, because television is entirely voluntary. The American government forces our children to attend school, but nobody forces them to watch T.V. Americans of all ages *submit* to television. Television is the American ideal. Persuasion without coercion. Nobody makes us watch. Who could have predicted that a *free* people would voluntarily spend one fifth of their lives sitting in front of a *box* with pictures? Fifteen years sitting in prison is punishment. But 15 years sitting in front of a television set is entertainment. And the average American now spends more than one and a half years of his life just watching television commercials. Fifty minutes, every day of his life, watching commercials. Now, that's power."


"The United States has it's own propaganda, but it's very effective because people don't realize that it's propaganda. And it's subtle, but it's actually a much stronger propaganda machine than the Nazis had but it's funded in a different way. With the Nazis it was funded by the government, but in the United States, it's funded by corporations and corporations they only want things to happen that will make people want to buy stuff. So whatever that is, then that is considered okay and good, but that doesn't necessarily mean it really serves people's thinking - it can stupify and make not very good things happen."
- Crispin Glover: []


"It's only logical to assume that conspiracies are everywhere, because that's what people do. They conspire. If you can't get the message, get the man." - Mel Gibson (from an interview)


"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William Casey, CIA Director


"The real reason for the official secrecy, in most instances, is not to keep the opposition (the CIA's euphemistic term for the enemy) from knowing what is going on; the enemy usually does know. The basic reason for governmental secrecy is to keep you, the American public, from knowing - for you, too, are considered the opposition, or enemy - so that you cannot interfere. When the public does not know what the government or the CIA is doing, it cannot voice its approval or disapproval of their actions. In fact, they can even lie to your about what they are doing or have done, and you will not know it. As for the second advantage, despite frequent suggestion that the CIA is a rogue elephant, the truth is that the agency functions at the direction of and in response to the office of the president. All of its major clandestine operations are carried out with the direct approval of or on direct orders from the White House. The CIA is a secret tool of the president - every president. And every president since Truman has lied to the American people in order to protect the agency. When lies have failed, it has been the duty of the CIA to take the blame for the president, thus protecting him. This is known in the business as "plausible denial." The CIA, functioning as a secret instrument of the U.S. government and the presidency, has long misused and abused history and continues to do so."
- Victor Marchetti, Propaganda and Disinformation: How the CIA Manufactures History


George Carlin:

"The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.

You know what they want? Obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club.

This country is finished."


We now return you Americans to your media: Corporate, Government sponsored and controlled (rigged) elections..

Most of you are all so asleep it's time you woke up!

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me (2)

Baseclass (785652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243727)

You spelled Wookiee wrong.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244089)

No worries. George Lucas is bound to call them Wookies in a remastered edition sooner or later.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244345)

This has what to do with Cambodia or Sweden again? I swear, there has got to be a new vocabulary word for self-centered Americans who think every single discussion is about their country.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me (1)

metacell (523607) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244565)


Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me (2)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244591)

The thinking would be, that Barrack Obama RIAA/MPAA stuffed department of in-justice put the hard word on Sweden via that political hooker Hilary Clinton, for totally screwing up the Julian Assange thing and making both the UK and US government look pretty ridiculous, that Sweden had better make that Pirate Bay guy. Campaign dollar pressures.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244665)

Uhhh...last I heard Sweden didn't have a giant world reaching film and music industry, so you can be pretty sure it was the *.A.A pulling the strings. That is what happens when wealth becomes too concentrated in the hands of too few, you get these multinational monsters that can slip some money in the right pockets anywhere on the planet and get what they want.

Conspiracy or not (4, Insightful)

Isbiten (597220) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243639)

I highly doubt that the Swedish government would have such a great interest in Svartholm that they would pay to get him extradited. Also how much aid was given to Cambodia before Svartholm was arrested? Unless that figure was close to zero I fail to see how Sweden payed for his extradition.

Re:Conspiracy or not (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243779)

I don't read Khmer but on page 2 of this PDF document [] there's a table of what looks like some or all aid provided by Sweden to Cambodia over the past few years.

Re:Conspiracy or not (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243951)

Of course they did not pay, the thought is absurd. Then again, if Cambodia gets regular aid from Sweden they have an interrest in not upsetting Sweden, which might make them more cooperative.

Re:Conspiracy or not (4, Insightful)

Mr. Wok (2723821) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244091)

It's beyond stupid to suggest that Sweden paid Cambodia for TPB admin. Why would they do that? It's not personal. And this is Cambodia we're talking about. There would be no need to pay $40 million to the whole government, just a little to one or two people with connections to immigration office.

Re:Conspiracy or not (2, Informative)

Zemran (3101) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244201)

Total previous budget 3.5 million SEK, new budget for today 400 million SEK - no anomaly there...

Re:Conspiracy or not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244657)

[citation needed]
According to SIDA the Swedish government have given between 100 and 200 million SEK, yearly the last few years.
Please let us know where you get the number 3.5 million SEK from.

Re:Conspiracy or not (3)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243937)

I don't know how much Sweden give as aid to Cambodia normally, but the Swedish government spend several hundred times more per capita in international aid then US do both as government aid and as given by people and non-governmental organisations, add to that, Swedes privately gives as much per capita in charity as the US population gives privately per capita (this is of course comparing bananas to apples, since most US charity is done for tax purposes and is highly ineffective as anything but constructions to avoid tax), most of the charity in US is donated by a handful of people, while the Swedes have an even distribution of giving charity among the population (poorer Swedish people give, proportional to their income, considerably more then rich people in charity, on the other hand, low income receivers in Sweden have an income comparable to the lower middle class in US).

This of course means that many governmentss, and people, around the world, act very favourable towards the Swedish government and Swedish people (heck, older Dutch people still loves us passionately for the aid we gave during just a couple of critical months in 1944, and older Greeks and Turks still loves us for the aid (and political refugee) we gave during their junta regimes and in the development after the juntas (meanwhile, the US governemnt aided the Greek and Turkish junta to oppress (and kill, torture, imprison, starve et c.) the common people)). Being a Swede on a trip abroad is usually really nice compared to being of some other nationality (cough, USian) visiting that same area. Another source of the strong Swedophilia around the world, is that until a few years ago, the Swedish educational system was open to, and free of cost, to anyone applying from around the world, and accepted students purely based on academic merits. Unfortunately, this practise was not allowed within EU and discontinued some years after Sweden joined EU. Interesting in this case is that many higher government officials and bureaucrats in influential African countries have received their education in Sweden.

Bullshit, figures please. (-1, Flamebait)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244003)

the Swedish government spend several hundred times more per capita in international aid then US do both as government aid

Yes, I believe that.

and as given by people and non-governmental organisations

That I do NOT believe. There is no way that even per captia, Sweden is donating more money for foreign aid than all of the private charities JUST spending money on foreign aid in the U.S. put together. Even just naming one - Red Cross - would seem to obliviate what you are saying, never mind thousands more.

You need to provide some solid figures here.

Re:Bullshit, figures please. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244039)

you do realize what "per capita" means, right?

Re:Bullshit, figures please. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244087)

I know these figures when they were up in the news, they came from Swedish Red Cross.

Your Bullshit is Bullshit (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244113)

How about you provide some facts before calling bullshit?

Here are the figures for 2002:

Combining government and private assistance, Sweden provided 62cents per capita, US 18cents.

Re:Your Bullshit is Bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244359)

Both being dwarfed by Norways 102c.

Re:Your Bullshit is Bullshit (1)

metacell (523607) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244579)

Norway is a very rich country these days, due to their oil income.

Re:Your Bullshit is Bullshit (2)

brit74 (831798) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244505)

To be fair, the original statement was dramatically wrong. That statement was "Swedish government spend several hundred times more per capita". The actual number from your provided statistics is "3.44 times more per capita".

I know that Sweden gives more per capita in government aid than the US. However, claiming that it spends several hundred times more per capita immediately raised by BS detector, too. My first impulse was to verify it because I didn't believe it.

Re:Conspiracy or not (0, Flamebait)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244373)

Between defeating the Communist block, rebuilding the western Europe, including Germany, as well as Japan after the WWII and then protecting them militarily (as well as many other countries, S. Korea, Israel, etc etc) for over 50 years, thwarting countless dictators and having an instrumental and unique role (unfortunately without much help from Europeans) in transforming the world from the one in which majority of people lived under dictatorships, only a few decades back, to the current world in which majority of people live in freedom, the US has benefited the world in more ways than any single country in history. Not to mention providing a shining example of 250 years of unbroken stable, free, democratic government, while various European countries lurched from absolute monarchies, to fascism (in Spain and Greece into the 1970s) and communism (in half of Europe into the 1990s). You and the other psychotically anti-US Europeans are a bunch of ungrateful cunts even if you are too ignorant too realize it.

Re:Conspiracy or not (1)

ByronHope (2669333) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244559)

The South Americans may disagree with your version of history...

Re:Conspiracy or not (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243949)

As the article does not give away any source I cannot find exactly who or what in sweden that pays out the money, or why.
I can see the numbers on SIDA (Swedish foreign Aid) which shows that Sweden have been given between 100 and 200 Million SEK to Cambodia the last few years;

Currently it shows "only" 138 MSEK for 2012 so I am not sure if the money goes through SIDA (as it should) or if the page is slow to update, but as the article does not mention any sources I find it hard to make anything out of it.
A random blogpost without proper quotation is unfortunately not the best news source.

Re:Conspiracy or not (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243963)

I found which claims to show the aid given to Cambodia since 1980. I don't know if there's an English version of the page.

Re:Conspiracy or not (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244057)

According to Sweden gave 2011 184 million SEK in total. This year they've given 138 million in and promised 300 million SEK 2012-2015 for "Democracy development" which is an up from 2011 where they gave 175 million SEK for that. That alone is an up of 125 million SEK (300-175) but less per year average than 2011-2012 (175-100).

I think they decided to continue the "democracy development program" and invest another 100 million SEK/year in the program for 3 years. If anything this is the bribe. To be sure about this, one has to access the program records, achievements, look at the goals and when the program was intended to end. That is to see if anything changed between 2010 and 2012.

Re:Conspiracy or not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244059)

Sweden is a US collaborator on torture - sorry 'extraordinary rendition'. The Swedish prime minister is best buddies with Karl Rove. Enough of a clue?

Re:Conspiracy or not (1)

Pav (4298) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244119)

This story is spreading circumstantial evidence very thin, and is definitely on the other side of the "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" boundary. In the Assange case there are so many strange facts that the burden of proof has been shifted... not so here.

I WOULD say it's possible though. It's not like the Swedish administration isn't hiring an ex Bush administration official who resigned under a cloud after trying to corrupt US Department of Justice [] .

Re:Conspiracy or not (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244383)

In the Assange case there are so many strange facts that the burden of proof has been shifted... not so here.

I assume that you haven't had time to read up on the way the Pirate Bay trial was handled. (Police paid by Warner Brothers, Judge part of a pro-copyright organization, takedown requested by government officials and a lot more neat stuff.)

Re:Conspiracy or not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244537)

It's RIAA, MPAA money of course.

Yeah, and? (3, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243641)

Wait, are you telling me that corporations paid the government to do what they couldn't do themselves? That's almost like saying that the government sometimes pays corporations to do what they can't do themselves... and we all know that never happens. Hangon, my cell phone is beeping... huh... I wonder why the GPS icon is blinking....

Re:Yeah, and? (1)

Mr. Wok (2723821) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244287)

huh... I wonder why the GPS icon is blinking....

You do understand that GPS is one-way communication only?

Re:Yeah, and? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244369)

You realize that the phone can communicate the GPS coordinates it receives via other means?

Crazy Swedes? (1)

Dripdry (1062282) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243655)

"Government funded, Samuel Hubinette approved."

Well come on, I couldn't think of a Soviet Russia joke!

Re:Crazy Swedes? (3, Funny)

lexa1979 (2020026) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244209)

"In Soviet Russia, government pays you" ?

Assange and Ecuador? (3, Interesting)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243687)

You have to wonder how "flexible" Ecuador would be if Assange ever made it there and USAID shows up with an offer of "development dollars".

Re:Assange and Ecuador? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243899)

They wouldn't accept it since the US went the other way and funded a police backed coup back in 2010. President Corea has hudge balls standing up to the US.

Re:Assange and Ecuador? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243939)

I think you meant "fudge balls"?

Re:Assange and Ecuador? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244027)

You can suck on my chocolate coated fudge balls.

Re:Assange and Ecuador? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244299)

Don't hold your breath, all South American countries have backed Ecuador over the situation and they (plus China) can easily counter any offer made by the yanks. Svartholm is insignifcant to the big players but Assange is a different case altogether... Americans have always had an us vs them attitude and that's finally dragged the whole world into a global conflict.

Makes you wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243691)

How much the USA has promised for Assange?

Re:Makes you wonder... (1)

Wandering Voice (2267950) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243781)

I wonder how much of what Sweden paid, was actually paid for by the US?

Re:Makes you wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243821)

I wonder how much of what Sweden paid, was actually paid for by the US?

Me too...

No, you tell me. (5, Interesting)

loshwomp (468955) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243709)

Did Sweden Pay Cambodia For the Pirate Bay Co-founder?

Why are you asking me? You're the one writing the article, so how about answering some questions and providing factual information instead of weaseling around with headline questions?

Re:No, you tell me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243959)

Why are you asking me? You're the one writing the article, so how about answering some questions and providing factual information instead of weaseling around with headline questions?

If you had read the fucking article... you would see they *did* provide some factual information. It's just not reliable enough by itself to make a definitive statement... hens the use of a question mark next to their statement.

Betteridge's law of headlines (2, Interesting)

Kergan (780543) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243961)

Meh the answer is No in all likelihood.'s_Law_of_Headlines []

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines (1)

loshwomp (468955) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244009)

Thank you. It is nice to know I'm not the only one bothered by this trend. It was starting to get lonely.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines (2)

Twisted64 (837490) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244627)

I am so sick of seeing this. It's the latest "correlation is not causation" (previously godwin's law) that somebody now feels the need to put into every god damn article with a question for a headline.

Nothing against the parent personally, and nothing will stop it from appearing again, just wanted to vent.

Re:No, you tell me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243973)

A headline with a question mark at the end means, in the vast majority of cases, that the story is tendentious or over-sold. It is often a scare story, or an attempt to elevate some run-of-the-mill piece of reporting into a national controversy and, preferably, a national panic.

- Andrew Marr (via WP)

Re:No, you tell me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243975)

Yellow journalism and purple prose. I think they should all wear yellow with purple dots/stripes clothing.

Re:No, you tell me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244273)

The daily show coined this rhetoric 'the Cavuto' after a fox news personality who used it a lot. Any time I see it, I'm always reminded of the bit:

What kind of dumbass... (4, Funny)

outsider007 (115534) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243715)

goes to Cambodia for asylum? Seriously.

Re:What kind of dumbass... (1)

Kergan (780543) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243919)

Why not? Have you ever lived there? Where should one go according to you? The US?

Re:What kind of dumbass... (1)

siddesu (698447) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244095)

I hear South Africa is a favorite destination for various convicted Eastern European mafiots due to their accommodating extradition rules. I was there for a few weeks in 02 and I think it was a lot more pleasant place to be than Cambodia, which I visited around 06.

Re:What kind of dumbass... (4, Interesting)

Mr. Wok (2723821) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244223)

I have lived there. There's lots of corruption. TPB admin also had huge drug problem, which most likely is why he chose Cambodia. He didn't go there for any kind of political asylum, he went there to hide from Sweden and to use drugs.

Read khrem440 forums or ask any expat living there.. everyone knew about his drug problems. He also lived in an apartment that cost $750 a month. That's huge rent for a country where people earn like $30 a month.

Re:What kind of dumbass... (0)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244441)

Why not? Have you ever lived there?
No, but I've been there and its basically a shithole in more ways than you can imagine.
  Where should one go according to you? The US?
Depends on who/what is one running from. If you are a dissident escaping from a tyranny like N. Korea or Cuba, then, yes, the US is the place to go. If you are running from the law in Sweden, then the US is the wrong place as you will likely get extradited.

Can you spell Wikileaks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243723)

After this, do we have any illusions that Sweden would not extradite Assange to the US to face "treason" chargers? Their government has become incontrovertibly corrupt...

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks? (2)

siddesu (698447) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244123)

Well, one has a sentence, and the other still hasn't got one, so the situation is not quite the same. BTW, the word "sentence" reminds me that sentences are still shelled out more or less according to laws in the West, and that you can still try to influence with some degree of success the process of lawmaking in your own country. What have you done to help the unjustly accused and the jailed because of unfair laws?

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks? (1)

fredprado (2569351) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244371)

Your first statement is truth in most cases, but usually fail when there are enough interests against you. Sentences are indeed shelled out according to laws, unless the government wants the opposite badly enough.

The second statement is an illusion. You, I and people like us have absolutely no way of influencing the process of lawmaking in our countries.

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks? (1)

siddesu (698447) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244407)

Well, I have influenced the lawmaking process in my country, so it isn't as hopeless as you imagine it to be. The less you try, though, the harder it gets, that I agree with.

So? (5, Insightful)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243755)

Governments do this all the time. Jimmy Carter's famous Camp David Accords peace treaty between Sadat and Begin wouldn't have happened unless Carter bribed Egypt with $1.3 billion dollars per year in "aid". Not to be left out, Israel received a $3 billion bribe, I mean, foreign aid, for their part in the peace treaty. For accepting these bribes, Begin and Sadat shared a Nobel Peace Prize. Suddenly, everyone is shocked, shocked to find that aid is going on here?

Try this from now on: any time you hear the word "foreign aid", mentally substitute the word "bribe". You'll see it's a quite normal state of affairs among nations.

Re:So? (1)

outsider007 (115534) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243803)

You really had to dig deep there for something that goes on all the time.

Re:So? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243945)

The Camp David Accords happened a long time ago, but it's hardly "digging deep." It's certainly one of the most famous examples around. Other famous and more recent examples include Russian nuclear disarmament, North Korean inspections, and setting a "proper" budget to get EU or IMF funds. Treatment of, say, US soldiers on military bases facing local legal trouble, commitments on ICC enforcement, concessions on trade disputes, and other similar items often "influence" foreign aid decisions.

TFA offers no evidence, beyond a clear sense that the writer can't imagine anyone cares about Cambodia more than they care about the Pirate Bay founder. So a little hard to figure out how outraged I'm supposed to be. If you want my opinion, a comment during aid negotiations strikes me as totally normal; an explicit quid-pro-quo to get planned aid seems excessive; and tossing in an extra 10 million or something would be a bribe. But for all that's been presented so far, this could have been even *less* than the minimum at that list--a normal request from a bureaucrat Sweden. Those get listened to sometimes, too.

Re:So? (1)

outsider007 (115534) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244211)

Of course it happens all the time, but citing as the only reference something that happened 40 years ago undermines the argument if anything. That's all I'm saying.

In related news... (1)

phx_zs (1772496) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243789)

Secretary of State Clinton, after being asked on her way out of an industry conference hosted by the MPAA, assured reporters that the US's recent $60MM contribution to "strengthen ties" with Sweden was completely unrelated.

That's how the cookie crumbles (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243793)

Haha! You thought that the rule of law applies and that justice prevails! You're so cute!

You must be new here. (1)

DeTech (2589785) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243797)

This is how modern diplomacy works. Welcome to Earth, we have Cheetos.

Simply put... (4, Funny) (882444) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243843)

Wikileaks released cables that showed the US had threatened to put Sweden on the WTO’s black list if they refused to deal with the Pirate Bay 'problem'.
So either Sweden actually stood to lose more than the 59.4m by doing nothing or the money came directly from the US.
Either way, the US is being a bully once again.

This is why everyone should vote Romney. While he is just as much of an asshole as Obama and many others before him, at least he'll burn the country to the ground for good.

Re:Simply put... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243911)

Nah, Mittens is just a start.

To get a really good burn going, you need someone more committed to the cause, not some wishy-washy flip-flopping politico. I nominate the chairman of the Discovery Institute.

Re:Simply put... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243921)

Or it's just that Sweden have been giving development aid to Cambodia since 1979 (when Sweden switched from emergency relief aid to development aid).

Occams razor, try it.

Bin Laden (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243979)

Remember Bin Laden's ransom we had? $25m. How much did he cost the US in damages? Trillions (2 wars) and thousands of American, and over 100,000 Iraqis.
Yet, we put a higher ransom on a guy who created a torrent site?
I don't want to live on this planet anymore...

Re:Simply put... (1)

gagol (583737) | more than 2 years ago | (#41243991)

How about no one votes for republicans and democrats for a change... they are both two sides of the same coin: the super rich lobby.

Who cares? Sweden has become a joke. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41243877)

Utmeskiten [] .

A buck says (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244001)

the USA paid the Swedes to pay Thailand...

Sweden’s development aid to Cambodia began i (3, Informative)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244007) []

"Sweden’s development aid to Cambodia began in 1979. Humanitarian efforts have gradually given way to long-term cooperation. In the current cooperational strategy (2008-2010) our cooperation is focused on supporting reforms for decentralization and democratization, and human rights through support for the development of civil society and education."

Since 1979? Hmmm. It has not been that effective.

Re:Sweden’s development aid to Cambodia bega (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244529)

The lack of effectiveness must've been the reason they very, very recently allegedly decided [] to increase their support a hundredfold.

Seems it's already getting results.

I know it's not politically correct but.... (2)

Grayhand (2610049) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244041)

Okay you piss off billionaires and the countries behind them then squeal like pigs when they come after you? I think "dah" is a simple answer to the situation for both he and Assange. Sure in an ideal world you can say it wouldn't work this way but why is anyone surprised that that powerful people want them off the street??? If you try to fuck the bear in the ass he's likely to chase you up a tree. Why is this shocking? They are talking tens of millions but they are multibillion dollar a year industries. If you piss off the right people there's no where you can hide. Say this isn't the way it's supposed to work all you want but in the real world this is reality.

He broke the law (according to court) (1)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244061)

....aaaaand that's pretty much it. I (as regular Pirate Bay user) won't give into discussion about how it's unfair (life's unfair), how court was bought (again, prove this), etc. As I have understood, Pirate Bay founders/owners maitained civil disobedience during investigation and trial. They think law is unfair. Yet, they broke current law - according to court, again - and that's where we land. Cambodia don't even care about this small print, Sweden has legimitate order, they want him - they sure will get him.

Leave selective truth, propaganda and conspiracy theories to the Fox News, please. I know geeks are so much better and above this (also Assange). I know world sucks. I know fight with IPR megacorps and ideas are heavy. But no one promised easy walk in the park.

Good Swedes .. (1)

bothandeach (2706475) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244117)

was a theme of my childhood and up until now. 64 stupid years, as I will be pretty damn soon.

Swedish aid to Cambodia began in 1979 (2)

emakinen (875208) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244215)

Swedish development aid to Cambodia began in 1979 [] . Since then Sweden has given millions of dollars to Cambodia. The article by The Next Web and Torrent Freak have no evidence at all to back their claim. It's biased reporting, based on no research and strong prejudice. It is ridiculous to claim that Sweden would use millions of dollars to arrest a man, who is, from government perspective, a petty criminal.

why (1)

nancyfromafrica (2706953) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244239)

why is everyone after the torrent sites these days

No, it was the MAFIAA (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244377)

Sweden didn't pay for it. If anyone did pay, it was the MPAA/RIAA black ops funding who did it, probably through numerous lobbyists and other corrupt government bodies. Just like back in 2006, when it was revealed that the raid on TPB was in fact ordered by a swedish minister, after having been told to do it by the media mafia.

It's easy to see. Just look at who would have the most to gain, and the answer is obvious.

Hey, this is new! (1)

macraig (621737) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244381)

So... some powerful influential people with personal, emotional, reputational axes to grind with a clever fellow who escaped their "justice" are willing to squander an astronomic amount of money they didn't earn in order to make the clever fellow pay dearly for being more clever than them?

Yep, that's new!

Re:Hey, this is new! (1)

macraig (621737) | more than 2 years ago | (#41244401)

... clever fellow who escaped their control....

There, fixed that for myself....

Azerbaijan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244399)

Azerbaijan secretly promised to buy Hungarian bonds for releasing Ramil Safarov. But now that it happened they won't. A lot cheaper solution.

I don't think so (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41244455)

I think the US put pressure on the Swedish government to open investigations on this. This is pretty much proven by leaks. Question is if they bribed the responsible minister directly or not (he has since moved to the US...) but that isn't sure.

I beleive the "media maffia" bribed the police (Keyzer? Keyser?) responsible for investigations by offering him a high paying job in the maffia that he got even before the investigation was finished.

I also think the judge in the first trial was "corrupt", maybe not by direct bribes but certainly by being in the same "gang" as the maffia (member of copyright organisations and so on).

But that Sweden paid for Svartholms arrest and extradition. No, the Swedish goverment isn't that clever in "getting" people.

And if the rumors of Svartholms drug addiction is correct, maybe he can benifit from staying a year in prison detox.

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