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GNOME 3.6 To Include Major Revisions

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the clamor-from-the-villagers dept.

GNOME 327

supersloshy writes "The launch of the GNOME 3 desktop environment sparked heated debate and criticism. GNOME developers have been listening to the concerns of its users and it is rolling out several significant changes in GNOME 3.6. The message tray, often called hard to use, was made much more visible in addition to being harder to accidentally trigger. The "lock" screen can now optionally control your music player, the system volume, and display notifications so you don't have to type in a password. GNOME will also support different input sources directly instead of requiring an add-on program. Nautilus, the GNOME file browser, is also getting a major face lift with a new, more compact UI, properly working search features, a "move to" and "copy to" option as an alternative to dragging and dropping, and a new "recent files" section. These changes, among many others including improvements to system settings, will be present in GNOME 3.6 when it is released later this month. Any other additions or changes not currently implemented by the GNOME team can be easily applied with only one click at the GNOME Extensions website."

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327 comments

Yawn... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253577)

Ha! Gnome. Worst Desktop ever.

All two (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253593)

GNOME 3 users are extremely excited!

Re:All two (5, Interesting)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253863)

I've been using it for about the last year (occasionally switching to Xfce or Unity when I feel like it), and I'm okay with most of it, happy with a few bits, and fairly excited by the changes. My main complain was *always* the ridiculous notification system. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to hide notifications? When I gen an email while the screen is off, or I'm not looking at it, I want to frikkin' see it. That's the whole point of a notification system. Having to actually see if I have any notifications is only minimally better than having none at all.

Anyway ... yeah, nice to hear. I'm pleased enough with the rest of it now than the extensions are available that it actually looks and works like I used to have Gnome 2 set up, other than the notifications mess.

I tried Unity again this week on a new development machine. I tolerated it right up until I added the extra monitors. Global menu is a very silly idea.

Re:All two (0, Flamebait)

epyT-R (613989) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253883)

The whole point of locking the screen is so that others can't see what's on it without your permission...that includes emails/messages and anything else. If you just want to see your messages and don't care about privacy or the lifespan of your display, turn off the screensaver and powersave features.

Re:All two (4, Informative)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253941)

You don't see the notifications at all (other than a toaster style warning the moment it happens). You have to 'ask' for them to be shown by putting the mouse in the bottom right corner of the screen. They hide them while the screen is *not* locked.

Re:All two (0)

epyT-R (613989) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254281)

I'm not sure I understand..(I'm not a gnome3 user). Everything should be hidden when the screen is locked. That's the point.

Re:All two (3, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254413)

I'm not explaining well. Everything is hidden when the screen is locked. Unfortunately, notifications are also not displayed when the screen is not locked. You actually have to do something to see any notifications that might have occurred when you were not looking at the screen. For me, this nearly completely defeats the point of having notifications. I would like to see at a glance that I have an email, or a chat request, etc.

Re:All two (1)

epyT-R (613989) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254545)

Usually, notifications can be set up to pop up for a time, then disappear, or have them stay up until they're dismissed. Gnome doesn't allow this choice?

Re:All two (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254595)

What if I'd like to lock my screen and not leak information to anyone that walks by when I leave the desk for a moment?

Shit sux (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253609)

It's still GNOME3. 'Nuff said.

Too late (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253623)

Over 6 releases to have them starting to listen to their user? I am out!

Re:Too late (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253715)

Over 6 releases to have them starting to listen to their user? I am out!

By the 8th release they'll take out the options so why bother in the first place ?

Re:Too late (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253735)

hmmm.... make it 3.

Re:Too late (3, Informative)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254491)

Over 6 releases to have them starting to listen to their user? I am out!

Ignoring the fact that Gnome Developers are Users too; There has only been 3 releases [Odd .1 are development releases]; You never had to run it with Mate; Unity; Cinnomom [my personal preference]. Where are you going to, Seriously put that install Ubuntu on that overpriced Apple now so you know what you are talking about :)

Iterations (4, Funny)

DeadDecoy (877617) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253643)

After a few more iterations, it'll look just like OS X.
:P

Re:Iterations (1)

Desler (1608317) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253689)

I realize this is a joke but why exactly is it claimed that GNOME Shell or Unity look like OS X? Unity has some superficial similarities but that's about it. GNOME Shell looks nothing like it.

Re:Iterations (4, Insightful)

DeadDecoy (877617) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253843)

I said this half-jokingly as many of these disruptive changes have been made in response to Apple's popularity and explosion in the tablet/phone market.

I see these OSs merging in terms of how they perceive user tasks. The old Unix/Windows model was that you had a bunch of applications running simultaneously, which the user had to manage themselves. In Mac, it feels like the emphasis is on working with one application at a time. This can be seen when the (File, Edit, View, etc) menus change context with respect to the selected application. Unity, and it looks like Gnome 3, are moving in this direction.

For users who are used to one style, completely revamping the UI also means revamping and disrupting everyone's personal workflow. What if I want to browse and code simultaneously? If the UI prohibits such behavior, than I'll have a hard time getting work done.

I don't have a problem with the changes, but I do have a problem with these changes getting shoved down everyone's throat without proper support to revert to a classic look. A lot of the 'core' features that are being added, could simply be mods on top of the existing desktop instead of the buggy restructuring that's currently going on.

Re:Iterations (4, Informative)

uglyduckling (103926) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253991)

The menu bar following the app has always been a feature of the Mac OS. It's nothing to do with using one app at a time, it's to do with the muscle memory advantage of just shoving the mouse to the top of the screen regardless of which application you're using. It also saves screen space by avoiding having multiple near-identical menus all over the screen.

Re:Iterations (4, Interesting)

ArsonSmith (13997) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254187)

It also makes it almost useless to have apps on a second monitor. That "feature" was one of the reasons I moved away from OSX a couple of years ago.

Re:Iterations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254433)

Great point. The menu at the top was one of my primary sticking points when I play-tested a mac several years ago.

Re:Iterations (1)

aliquis (678370) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254765)

MacOS and AmigaOS also got unified menus. I like them. They save space.

And yeah, some programs on the Amiga ran in a screen of their own, some others in separate windows, all used the same menu method and just because one program such as a painting program or file manager ran in it's own screen didn't mean I couldn't switch to something else. Many X users like virtual desktops and separating tasks within different desktops themselves. It's imho just the same. I'd rather say I don't like how for instance Gimp spreads multiple windows on top of some other windows. I'd prefer one or a clean slate for the windows to show up in. Windows got their modal windows to.

To me it's also obvious that the Gnome people seem to want us to work in full screen mode. But on the other hand if you want multiple smaller windows you can have those in another desktop or you can tile two windows beside each other. And I suppose you can hold down a key and arrange them whatever way you want without them snapping to the screen edges and change shape automatically to?

Re:Iterations (0)

hairyfeet (841228) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254107)

I don't know, they sure look [ibentu.org] similar [idg.com.au] to me.

I can only speak about Gnome 2, since i haven't had a chance to play with any Gnome 3 desktops (been playing with Vector KDE Classic, its nice) but the problem with the whole menubar on top bit is cargo cult usability [piestar.net] where you copy the look without understanding WHY it looks like it does. in the case of OSX it is a application oriented desktop, the bar on top is supposed to be universal and changes depending on the app. With Linux you have a window oriented desktop where you have each window with its on controls AND the bar on top. It just makes no sense from a usability standpoint.

Personally I'm hoping we'll see some real innovation, I mean here we are, with systems so insanely powerful they would have been considered supercomputers a decade ago, and what do we get? It either rips off OSX, Windows, or cell phones...ugh. While I can understand where the classic desktop metaphor came from its 2012 folks, surely we can come up with something even better from a usability standpoint. Sadly though as long as iPhone and iPad are racking up the sales I think the only "innovation" is gonna be cell phone ripoff designs, which of course make no damned sense on a 27 inch monitor and is generally worse from a usability standpoint than the standard desktop metaphor.

Re:Iterations (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254581)

. Sadly though as long as iPhone and iPad are racking up the sales I think the only "innovation" is gonna be cell phone ripoff designs

I'm afraid both iPhone and iPad are losing market share. As for innovative, the Gnome 3 desktop is oozes innovation, that is not the problem. Your claim of it looking like an iPad is a little out of place...perhaps you had be better sticking those in the Samsung posts where you usually make them.

It'll be tough. (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253649)

My Ubuntu box with Gnome 3 is sadly neglected - after I spent days laboriously recreating my working environment on OSX.

I use docky with Gnome 3. This makes them superficially similar. I re-built the key mappings that I live with.

We'll wait cautiously and see.

ah, Miguel... (-1, Troll)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253657)

...Microsoft's favoured bedfellow in the free software community.

Why is there no "year of Linux on the desktop"? Well, my friends, it is not because Apple are cunning this or Microsoft are abusive that. It is because no-one has yet come up with a compelling reason to deploy POS like GNOME outside the basement.

Re:ah, Miguel... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253703)

Mod parent up.

This guy knows things.

Re:ah, Miguel... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253967)

Oh man, and this AC above me is a genius! We should all donate money to their retirement fund!

Re:ah, Miguel... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254467)

Sorry, who do I make that check out to again?

BTW, I'm assuming POS = "Plain Old Software"?

Re:ah, Miguel... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253785)

That's part of it. The other part is that Ubuntu, the de facto consumer-grade Linux distro, doesn't use KDE by default.

Re:ah, Miguel... (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254377)

Don't forget the #2 distro, Fedora. They're giant supporters of GNOME, and not KDE. There's not many distros that feature KDE prominently, and the biggest one, SUSE, earned everyone's mistrust when they signed that deal with Microsoft.

Re:ah, Miguel... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254589)

slackware 14 RC4

kde goodness there.

Re:ah, Miguel... (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253841)

What I want to know is, when is it going to be the year of Windows on the desktop? With the new not-Metro interface, it looks like WIndows is getting pretty close to being as powerful and sophisticated as GNUStep...

Re:ah, Miguel... (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254637)

...Microsoft's favoured bedfellow in the free software community.

Why is there no "year of Linux on the desktop"? Well, my friends, it is not because Apple are cunning this or Microsoft are abusive that. It is because no-one has yet come up with a compelling reason to deploy POS like GNOME outside the basement.

...price :)

"... with only one click..." (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253667)

PFFFT!

Gnome 3.6 (4, Funny)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253701)

"Now with only ONE button".

Re:Gnome 3.6 (5, Funny)

Desler (1608317) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253733)

It has buttons? That clearly must be a mistake that they will quickly remedy.

Re:Gnome 3.6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254065)

"Now with only ONE button".

One too much.

Don't Care (2, Interesting)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253729)

Switching to Debian 6 XFCE.

You had your chance, GNOME, and you wasted it.

Re:Don't Care (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254295)

That is a silly way to live. Sure GNOME screwed up, but it isn't like you paid for it. Use your favorite and change if you see a better one.

the still-missing feature (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253745)

The one that makes me give a shit.

Canonical (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253751)

This is something Ubuntu (Canonical) never learned when they introduced Unity. Their attitude, according to their Reddit AMA, was basically "Fuck our users. We know what's best for them"

You know what's... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253761)

the window/desktop manager I'm still using?

WindowMaker.

As I have been since 1998 or so, whenever I originally started using X on linux. It was intended as a clone of the NeXT workspace, and was for a time the official windowmaker of GNUstep. And you know what? They haven't fucked with it beyond a few minor usability improvements in 10 years. Basically the only changes were adding truetype fonts (Which helped with a few font related issues on later X servers, but otherwise hasn't added much), 'live' editable menus (previously text files that required a restart to change the right-click/f12 menu layout), and some inter-desktop fixes that came out whenever the release popped up on slashdot earlier this year.

It doesn't have a desktop shell, and finding updated wmapplets can be a hassle, but the former can be fixed by borrowing thunar from XFCE, the latter by fixing them yourself (or suc...er 'convincing' someone else to), but it'll run on any computer you have dating back to at least the pentium era (and would probably run on older if it wasn't for the 'mandatory' freetype support.)

Point being: What has gnome offered in either the 2.x or 3.x releases that made it so much better than the original versions, and did any of those features make up for it's unusable bloat on legacy systems?

I know nobody bothers to code for legacy systems anymore, unless they already were, but the point is program efficiency and usability is being reduced by wasting cycles on things that.... don't add to the apparent front-end usability! A problem that the GNOME project seems to be embracing from the wrong end wholeheartedly.

Re:You know what's... (3, Interesting)

aliquis (678370) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254289)

Yeah, WindowMaker has always been pretty nice and worked. Can't say I've used it "since" 1998 though. My experience with it may have been just before but I haven't been very loyal to anything.

Haven't really been an active Linux/*BSD user for the last 5+ years either so until very recently my last real experience was KDE 3.5.

Anyway. WindowMaker works.

Personally I think Enlightenment17 is pretty interesting to. It's fast, configurable, most likely coded by someone who knows what he's doing rather than experiment with it. But then it depends on what software and toolkits you bring to your desktop.

Personally I think Gnome 3 shell is pretty interesting but I've got a Razer mouse which multiclicks so it's not very usable atm. KDE4 seem so heavy on my machine and imho KDE applications look like a mess. I know about the QT XML projects and such which was for a very short while the future of Nokia and I just wish someone made better looking QT applications. I think having one tool kit and an integrated desktop would be pretty nice but I don't want to have to be tied down to poor applications. Guess that's one advantage of the Windows and OS X desktops.

And I've seen clips on YouTube where they boot a Macintosh Classic (?), fire up ClarisWorks, type something, save it, quit and power down and compare that to a (then) modern PC laptop and the PC was slower. I think it's pretty disturbing a machine with 1 GB of RAM runs slowly now and then I see screenshots of Directory Opus 4 running on the Amiga with 770kB of RAM available. Of 1 MB..

It's amazing how much crap you can throw into software without increasing usability.

Had some old simple-wm (don't know what one, there's plenty now anyway, scrotwm, i3, ratpoison, the likes) screenshot with a terminal, screen, mutt and some others (centericq and some command line MP3 playing "service" I think?) and mutt is always such a beauty. And it makes you long back =p, should design a standard reply template for HTML mails which put the reply in a 15x3 characters iframe or something such with a headline informing the reader that's about how readable their HTML mails is in a text based mail client. However today with advertisement it make sense and rather HTML than something application specific / new I suppose.

I currently have Bodhi Linux installed but I suppose a bigger distribution with Enlightenment would work as well / even better. But that Bodhi comes with some touches (like GTK theme) which make it look nicer together.

Kinda not that you expected back then / just after the year you mention? That Enlightenment would be one of the lighter window managers in the future..

Re:You know what's... (1)

aliquis (678370) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254317)

Btw, awesome drivers for AROS would be awesome. Linux community seem to hate Nvidia and maybe AROS got good Intel drivers to? Or at least can borrow or benefit from them. Personally I've always liked Nvidia drivers since they was available for so many OSes and quick.

Then if Steam decided to make games for AROS rather than Linux and got some developer support I could finally had come back home =P

Miss you Amiga :)

Nautilus? Compact? No. (4, Informative)

MrEricSir (398214) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253773)

Nautilus, the GNOME file browser, is also getting a major face lift with a new, more compact UI...

Actually they removed compact view. [gnome.org] To say it's "more compact" is the opposite of what happened.

Re:Nautilus? Compact? No. (4, Insightful)

A Friendly Troll (1017492) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253929)

Good lord... One of the developers says that horizontal scrolling is "horrible", and the other says the comments are unhelpful and tells people to go away.

Is there even a point in using GNOME when shit like this happens and with people in charge being such enormous assholes?

Re:Nautilus? Compact? No. (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254723)

Good lord... One of the developers says that horizontal scrolling is "horrible", and the other says the comments are unhelpful and tells people to go away.

Is there even a point in using GNOME when shit like this happens and with people in charge being such enormous assholes?

I have to say I agree that "Compact View" is a waste of time. I personally will not miss 2 panes, because I have always found that a bizarre concept in a Desktop environment.

Now personally I object to them removing the up directory, because its something I use all day long.

PS. I think its kind of ironic that you calling people "enormous assholes" for telling people to go away

Re:Nautilus? Compact? No. (2)

slashmaddy (964291) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254101)

Until now, I had be indifferent to the "radical" changes in gnome 3, thanks to gnome-tweak. Although, thanks to your link, MrEricSir, I now have a faint idea of why there's so much opposition to gnome 3. Left a comment there. Although, personally, I don't know where I'd move from gnome 3. I was never a fan of KDE, and I have tried xfce and lxde, but didn't like them much. Gnome 2 was perfect and if they continue in this direction, all my hopes towards keeping linux as my main desktop would die. After a lot of effort, I was able to convince mom to start using FC17, and with changes like this, it's just a matter of one update when she orders me to install windows on her computer again. Please gnome 3 devs, don't make me commit this blasphemy.

Re:Nautilus? Compact? No. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254615)

If GNOME 2 was perfect for you, then why not move to the MATE desktop? It's a fork of GNOME 2. I have used it and it feels just like using GNOME 2.32.

Re:Nautilus? Compact? No. (1)

aliquis (678370) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254823)

Damn that chat bar was a waste of space:
http://afaikblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/message-tray2.png?w=640&h=400 [wordpress.com]

Especially on a wide screen.

Not really a fan of notifications either. In KDE the device information just goes away and I have no idea where to and how to access it again =P, and if they stayed on the screen and wanted me to click them it would suck if say someone pasted something in an IM client.

What about scrolling a message somewhere and light up an icon to inform me something has happened. Then say left click to show notifications, middle click to clear the icon/message queue and right click to pick what applications I got notifications from with simple list of applications + check marks in front of them for instance.

Why we can't have nice things. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253859)

Hipsters and people that sway easily to trendiness, are why computers are starting to suck. Whoever let these monkeys program needs to be drawn and quartered. "Oooh, let's take the close button, and not actually close or exit the application, let's just make it disappear but still running in the background, because users don't know what they want to do anyway." (Banshee, Pidgin, just to name a few). Let's just throw away 40+ years of HCI and ergonomics because touch screens are the new rage.

Re:Why we can't have nice things. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254167)

they get that behavior from copying os x. if you want to quit an app on os x you use cmd + q not the mouse. the "close" button just closes that specific window not the app. i like it because i know the key commands for os x but i'm always saddened to see even "pro" users like photographers or designers who don't realize hitting the "close" button only closes the windows and doesn't quit the app! i hit cmd + tab on their workstation and there's like 6 adobe apps running in the background. i realize if you're a photographer or graphics designer you don't need to know all the nitty gritty unixy details of os x but you should at least understand how the desktop works! *sigh*

Re:Why we can't have nice things. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254443)

The worst part is that the GNOME team never, ever learns from past mistakes. After all the negative criticism they've gotten since the launch of GNOME 3 they still pull shit like this [gnome.org]. Seriously, I don't even know where to begin with that one. Apparently they think it's too much work to navigate a filesystem so they removed the left directory navigation pane. WHY?!! If it's there - they'll make sure to break it (or remove it) just so they can show off some bizarre "idea" about how things should work in la-la-land. If they had just ported Gnome 2 to Gtk+3 and reworked some stuff under the hood, like replacing CORBA and gconf with something sane, they'd still be the most widely used *NIX desktop. But, no - they had to reinvent Gnome 3 into some pretentious bullshit GUI they have to brainwash people into liking.

Re:Why we can't have nice things. (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254763)

Agree 100%

> Whoever let these monkeys program needs to be drawn and quartered.
And flogged.

I'm looking at you Skype ... and all the retarded UI designers ...

Copy to.... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253897)

I'm glad to see GNOME finally adopt Copy To and Move To in their file manager. That was one feature which I loved in KDE and drew me away from GNOME, oh, about ten years ago. Odd it has taken them this long to include the feature, but I'm glad they finally did. The summary doesn't mention it, but have the developers finally enabled the shutdown button by default? The "press ALT to show" concept was really silly.

This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (0, Troll)

InvisibleClergy (1430277) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253913)

...and Gnome in specific.

Some rogue programmer often makes it his or her holy mission to force everybody to use the software the same way that THEY USE IT. This means that something I've used for a while might suddenly lose functionality in the name of a "bugfix". Also, these programmers almost never consult usability groups in order to figure out how peopole ACTUALLY use the software.

And yes, I realize that this is going to be -1 (troll) within a ten minutes. I do not care.

Re:This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41253983)

It's not the programmer, if it was just one lunatic, then there would be other sane who would counter him. No, the problem is people like these on /. who criticise everything. Eventually, they'll give in and do as the "users" tell them.

The most vocal are usually the fanboys from whatever fringe cult, and manage to make it look how they wanted, then they start bashing it for looking too much like whatever they were thinking of.

I was very happy when, after they made Gnome 3 managed to stayed with it for so long. They were truly making a path unique to Gnome.

Compare this to games developers that give in to their fans and give them whatever they want, usually go bankrupt.

Re:This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (4, Interesting)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254045)

No, the problem is people like these on /. who criticise everything.

That's stupid. You're stupid. Everything is stupid. Nyah :P

Compare this to games developers that give in to their fans and give them whatever they want, usually go bankrupt.

Like how Valve started circling the drain the moment TF2 went free to play?

Re:This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254015)

1. Write post

2. End with "I'll probably get modded -1 troll for this..."

3. ...

4. Profit!

Re:This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (3, Funny)

poisonborz (2676611) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254063)

I don't want to mention the Apple Effect, but still, I mention the Apple Effect: it's the Apple Effect. Developers think more and more often that there exists a holy path of usage, one that is so smooth, elegant and minimal that everyone finds it pleasing. Mayor usage patterns are becoming linear, and the user is left with the fact that changing background, color, and font-size are now billed advanced and sophisticated personalization options. Less options, less support problems, less things to understand.

Re:This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (0)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254773)

I don't want to mention the Apple Effect, but still, I mention the Apple Effect: it's the Apple Effect.
Developers think more and more often that there exists a holy path of usage, one that is so smooth, elegant and minimal that everyone finds it pleasing. Mayor usage patterns are becoming linear, and the user is left with the fact that changing background, color, and font-size are now billed advanced and sophisticated personalization options. Less options, less support problems, less things to understand.

...but that is not what is happening or has happened. Its nothing to do with Apple. In fact the Human Interface Guidelines are written by people [Gasp] with nothing to do with Apple. What Gnome is doing is removing clutter...and having sensible defaults, and on the whole I would say they have done an excellent job until recently.

Re:This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254129)

You should be labeled troll, because this is a problem with software everywhere. Apple one day woke up and decided they wouldn't support any software compiled before 2006. OK, now there's nothing you can do about it. This happens with closed source and open source.

The difference is, with open source, you can actually do something about it if you're willing to put in the effort.

Re:This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254363)

You only should be labeled troll if you are actually trolling, not giving your opinion.

Re:This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (2, Insightful)

sjames (1099) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254203)

Fortunately, FOSS provides a solution as well, called forking. For example, MATE [mate-desktop.org] is a fork from GNOME 2.0 and will continue development the way GNOME SHOULD have.

Unlike proprietary software where the users may find themselves at the mercy of a chair throwing nut case, nobody can actually force the users to follow them down the rabbit hole.

As for usability groups, they must have an uncanny knack for never including people who think the way I do in their focus groups because I find FOSS much easier to use in most cases.

But if neither MATE nor GNOME is your cup of tea, there's also KDE, XFCE, FVWM, and a great many others you can try. This isn't some sort of one size fits none dictatorship, you have choices.

Re:This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254267)

Same thing with commercial software. Some company forces Metro down the throats of most of the world and most of the world has no choice but accepting it. BTW, you got +5 Insightful, maybe I'll get -1 Troll if anybody notices this AC post.

Re:This is my problem with F/OSS in general... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254299)

What? The majority of F/OSS projects do not suffer from this "my way or the highway" attitude. I've really only seen the attitude when it has to do with (G)UI design (presumably because it is so subjective). And there are a TON of different "desktop environments" that cater to our individually different tastes, so its OK. Heck, even GTK and QT apps get along pretty well nowadays. Tolerance and coexistence are the values we need to promote, so that diversity can thrive (without weakening the ecosystem). Of course, it would be best if we could avoid duplication... but that's another discussion.

Re:And the other side of the problem... (1)

Chemisor (97276) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254569)

As a "rogue programmer who forces everybody to use the software the same way that I use it", I also have a complaint from my side of the story. Every time I make a UI change that I believe makes the software easier to use, you complain that you can't keep doing things exactly the way you have been doing. And it's true, you often can't; but the other side of this complaint is stagnation. If you are not interested in trying something new that may give you a way to do things faster and easier than you are currently doing, why are you using my new UI? It's either innovation and having to learn new things, or the stagnation of keeping things exactly as they used to be. While you're thinking about this choice, keep in mind that I'm not holding your nose here; you are free to use a multitude of alternative applications, or to keep the application version you currently have. If you dislike GNOME 3, use Xfce or whatever GNOME 2 fork suits your taste. Why are you trying to force us all to keep using the same UI you are using just because you're so used to it?

Re:And the other side of the problem... (3, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254711)

If you are not interested in trying something new that may give you a way to do things faster and easier than you are currently doing, why are you using my new UI?

Because you stopped supporting the old one.

Re:And the other side of the problem... (3, Interesting)

Chemisor (97276) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254927)

If you are not interested in trying something new that may give you a way to do things faster and easier than you are currently doing, why are you using my new UI?

Because you stopped supporting the old one.

Support is not free. You want to keep your old ways, while I want to move on. If I am a commercial developer, I'd weigh the value of keeping you as a customer and offer you a support contract to compensate me for the work required to keep you comfortably in the past. If I am an open source developer, you are not likely to be interested in paying for my efforts, so what incentive have I to do things your way when I believe I can do things better my way? That's what forks are for. GNOME 2 has been forked and people like you who love the old interface can keep working on it. GNOME 3 in the meantime can continue trying new things that may bring about an easier and more comfortable future for users who are not already set in the ways of GNOME 2. If you want GNOME 3 developers to instead support your old ways, why not put your money where you complaints are? How much are you willing to pay for continuing GNOME2-style UI support? Nothing? Well, what did you expect for that? Slavery is not cool.

Performance? (4, Insightful)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about a year and a half ago | (#41253981)

Nowhere in the post does the word performance even come up. As computers become faster, there are those of us who want to use that increased speed and power for the applications we run (whether it is video processing, video games, or just a ton of youtube tabs open in our bulky web browser of choice). Don't get me wrong, we want a desktop environment that is aesthetically pleasing and intuitive to our workflow. I just don't see why we need to keep significantly bumping up the performance cost of the desktop to get there.

Re:Performance? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254061)

i wish they stuck to ripping off windows 98. seriously, windows 98 might have been missing some "pro" features but the desktop was lean and mean. now with windows 8 on the horizon i bet a lot of people are going to have nostalgia for the good ol' windows 98 design. trying to copy windows 98 made you think about how good linux is, trying to copy os x just makes you think how shitty open source desktops are. i'd rather have a better windows 98 than a shittier os x, know what i mean?

Windows 8 (4, Insightful)

Un pobre guey (593801) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254021)

Please enforce a 12 month moratorium on copying anything, absolutely anything, from Windows 8 that is not already in common usage. Do not under any circumstances tolerate or condone Windows 8 penis envy.

Why Linux? (1, Troll)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254023)

Why are you using Linux desktop? Windows 7 and MacOS X deliver you a premium experience without having to worry about broken shit like this.

Re:Why Linux? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254131)

Proprietary software is evil.

Re:Why Linux? (4, Funny)

theskipper (461997) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254137)

Protip: The "Post Anonymously" checkbox is located above Comment Subject ;)

Re:Why Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254209)

If you can't stand by your statements, don't say them.

By a guy without a /. account

*Waves finger at all the people complaining about data mining while using named accounts*

Re:Why Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254195)

Get back to me when Windows can run WindowMaker, OpenBox, e17 or Awesome.

Re:Why Linux? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254257)

Because OSX has a shit window manager. (Although Gnome 3 also has a mediocre one.)

Re:Why Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254311)

I left Windows at its XP iteration and Gnome 2 was so much better at that time. Don't know about Win7 but who cares, my Linux desktop (Ubuntu 12.04 Classic Desktop camouflaged as Gnome 2) is doing everything I need.

OSX always had a broken UI as far as I'm concerned.

Re:Why Linux? (2)

collet (2632725) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254379)

Why are you using Linux desktop? Windows 7 and MacOS X deliver you a premium experience without having to worry about broken shit like this.

Premium experience? More like "experience forced for every single user because they all totally use computers in the EXACT SAME WAY".

Where are "extensions for OSX", eh? I have to use an iMac in my design class and I really, really would take Windows 95 over that "experience".

Re:Why Linux? (1, Insightful)

cecom (698048) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254533)

You don't really realize what a premium experience means... I don't want to restart the OS when I install a browser, for example. Don't get me wrong, the Linux desktop has way too many kinks, but the problem with the Windows mono-culture is that people don't even see the huge problems because they are so used to them.

Re:Why Linux? (0)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254805)

Why are you using Linux desktop? Windows 7 and MacOS X deliver you a premium experience without having to worry about broken shit like this.

Because they don't offer me a premium experience. They offer me an expensive underwhelming experience.

Excellent For Student/Office Trolls (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254145)

Why even have a lock screen if you can do things on it under the current user?

The point of a lock screen is to prevent other people from using your computer while you're away (if you're not away, then why was it locked?) Say I'm playing some music then pause and lock the computer to go do something. It sounds like another person can just walk by and resume my music and turn up the volume. Not good.

A person could also come by and max out the volume on all locked computers. What a way to troll someone. This feature lets someone physically damage the user's hearing! User keeps his/her volume low as the music is very loud or his headphones amplify the sounds. User pauses music, locks screen and gets up for a break, stupid student/co-worker/random cafe person comes by and maxs out the volume while leaving no traces, user comes back puts on headphones, and unlocks the screen. Then he un-pauses his music expecting it to be as he left it, but BAM! HAY HAY HAY, [NOW YOU HAVE HEARING DAMAGE] GOODBYE

Do people no longer think about their changes or why things are the way they were?

Re:Excellent For Student/Office Trolls (2)

PrimaryConsult (1546585) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254465)

It's an optional feature, just don't enable it.

I would say the volume control's true benefit is being able to lower/mute the volume while locked. Handy situations?
-You want to play mp3s while reading a book / cooking / whatever, but having to type your password to adjust the volume is a chore.
-your alarm clock is an mp3 played by cron (I solve this by turning off my speakers, not really an option for laptops).
-you are in a lecture, the lock screen has come on, and that web page with randomly cycling ads has just started playing a loud flash ad (current solution: pull battery).
-a metal/rock/etc song somehow made it into your "nature sounds for sleeping" mp3 list, somewhere around two hours into the list. You need to lower the volume to avoid pissing off neighbors. The act of entering your 16+character passphrase with requisite numbers and special characters is enough to bring you back to "fully awake".

Major Revisions? (1)

Bill Hayden (649193) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254179)

I'd prefer it if it included major reversions... of all the bad ideas that have crept in over the last couple years.

I hear all these people switching to OSX. (4, Informative)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254201)

And I start to wonder if these are just Apple Trolls. Listen, It's easy enough to switch to KDE or XFCE. I run Mandriva 2011. I use KDE. I have my own custom KDE theme installed with rpm. It works fine. There is no reason to abandon Linux because Gnome sucks, just run whatever programs you please under XFCE or KDE if Gnome is so awful.

You are an idiot if you switch to OSX or Windows over this.

Re:I hear all these people switching to OSX. (2)

butchersong (1222796) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254435)

Would you consider them to be idiots if they got pissed off and decided to switch to a distro that focused on another desktop environment? Run FreeBSD instead? How about Darwin? I did recently switch to KDE and after some initial pains I'm finding that I like it quite a bit. It will probably be my new DE for a while now. I'm looking at new laptops though and seriously considering a macbook. I don't think I could bring myself to run OSX on a desktop but my next laptop? Maybe. Note I have absolutely no prior exposure to or fondness for OSX.

So what ? (1)

formfeed (703859) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254497)

I don't care all that much if application "foo" now comes with a "bar" button, or if the "fubar menu" has the item "dingbat" in it.

I want a project that welcomes users to play with it. Something like:
"We think that most people don't need the "dingbat" item, which is why we left it out in the default, but if you need it, here's the config file and here's the man page."
not the gnome way: "noone really should use foo, so we removed it. -oh, wait - we got so much bad press, we'll put foo back. (for now)"

move to/copy to (1)

beep54 (1844432) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254797)

Why it has taken so long to have 'move to' and 'copy to' implemented has always been a mystery to me. That has really been a major reason I have kept using Windows and even then you have to hack the registry to get that.

Re:move to/copy to (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254883)

Hack the registry? It's on the menu by default.

Nobody has commented on the name (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#41254841)

Ignoring the usability issues. Love the renaming of Nautilus to files. They need to continue on that trend

Titanic. Deck Chairs. Re-arranging. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41254843)

Seems like.

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