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Windows Phone 8 SDK — By Appointment Only

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the doctor-will-see-you-now dept.

Windows 153

mikejuk writes "Developers worried about the changes that might be waiting for them in the new Windows Phone 8 API are going to have to wait even longer to find out. Microsoft has just announced that the SDK will be available soon, but only to the developers it approves. If you already have a published app, then you can apply to be part of the program. The announcement says, 'But I do want to set your expectations that program access will be limited.' The public SDK will be made available 'later this year,' which is behind the timetable that developers were led to expect. As you can imagine, the developer community, judging by the comment stream, is less than happy. What makes this whole development even stranger is that the announcement was made on the day Nokia previewed a range of WP8 devices. The Nokia launch got most of the publicity, so perhaps the idea was that a little negative news wouldn't be noticed. The real question is: why the limited availability?"

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Google Does This Too (-1, Troll)

For Freedoms (2724795) | about 2 years ago | (#41260697)

Google also limits access to new services and even APIs. Google+ and Gmail were launched this way and the first still doesn't give all developers access to the Google+ apps API and services (you know, games and stuff on the platform).

I think this is right choice from Microsoft. They know what's best for us developers. Hell, they made the best IDE on planet - Visual Studio - too!

Re:Google Does This Too (5, Insightful)

wanderfowl (2534492) | about 2 years ago | (#41260789)

I think this is right choice from Microsoft. They know what's best for us developers. Hell, they made the best IDE on planet - Visual Studio - too!

I'm thinking that we need a new moderation: "-1 Shill"

Re:Google Does This Too (4, Insightful)

tnk1 (899206) | about 2 years ago | (#41260917)

I think this is right choice from Microsoft. They know what's best for us developers. Hell, they made the best IDE on planet - Visual Studio - too!

I'm thinking that we need a new moderation: "-1 Shill"

That or a sarcasm tag.

Re:Google Does This Too (1)

c (8461) | about 2 years ago | (#41261651)

> I'm thinking that we need a new moderation: "-1 Shill"

It'd be useful, but quite frankly I think the GP is more deserving of a "+1 Funny"...

Re:Google Does This Too (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41262293)

At least they could randomize the standard "visual studio is the best IDE" claim they've been putting on every first post of the last weeks here on slashdot. They would be less recognizable.

Re:Google Does This Too (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41260791)

Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of shill. Two comments in the poster's history, both off-topic rants about Google.

Re:Google Does This Too (0)

DingerX (847589) | about 2 years ago | (#41260799)

Yes, absolutely. Do these /. FPs help your stack racking?

Google+ and Gmail have had decades-long rollouts. New Mobile OS versions come out every 2 years. Well, make that a year for WP 7. Sorry to the idiots who bought that one.

Right choice or wrong, you have to wonder about a company putting out software so competitive, it kills the companies that make the hardware for it. So they have this dud, and they erect barriers to developers? Didn't The Great Chair-Thrower himself predict that the next breakthrough app will be on Windows Phone? Whom does he expect to develop that next breakthrough app?

Re:Google Does This Too (2)

Desler (1608317) | about 2 years ago | (#41260855)

Google+ and Gmail have had decades-long rollouts.

Decades? Google itself is only 14 years old...

Re:Google Does This Too (4, Insightful)

Reapman (740286) | about 2 years ago | (#41260857)

What are you going on about? Your comparing API access to G+ and GMail to an entire platforms SDK? Oranges and Apples. But you seem new to the internets, what with your only 2 posts ever made, so maybe you don't know how things work? Couldn't possibly be a shill..

The day Gingerbread/ICS/JB was announced I could develop for it - ok maybe there was a day or two while it was uploaded - but none of this "oh sorry, only a few developers are allowed to work on JB"

If anything wouldn't you want to get the SDK into developers hands ASAP so that, you know, apps can be written?

I'd be pissed if Google did this with Android 5.0, so why shouldn't developers for Win8 also be annoyed?

Re:Google Does This Too (4, Interesting)

jmorris42 (1458) | about 2 years ago | (#41261945)

This is even worse than it first appears if you get past the hype and look to history. In the past pretty much every developer Microsoft could find would have development tools a year before a new OS launched to ensure apps would be ready to drop on release day. Nokia just announced product with Windows 8 and select brown nose devs will be getting complete dev tool support SOON? What?

Balmer may still be there but he ain't the same Monkey Boy who did the sweaty, bouncy, "Developers! Developers! Developers!" dance. It is clear that not only the hardware partners are going under the bus, the future for 3rd party application developers is dimming. Which of course is the way it must be. Microsoft currently has as close to a total monopoly on the desktop with Windows and Office as can be. So if they are to grow the topline they won't be doing it by doing more of what made them big. So they have to take in the hardware profits and eventually try to suck in the rest of the application space's profits. Dell's profit margins aren't huge but it makes serious coin on the gross revenue line and it will look good on the topline to keep the institutional investors happy a few more years. Plus, in the long run it is probably the only way to truly lock the platform, which is the only way to cut off the penguin's oxygen supply.

They could take out Netscape by making IE free but that doesn't work with Linux since it is already Free. But what it does need is a plentiful supply of commodity hardware and thus that is it's oxygen. Cut that off and it dies. Android can be dealt with later, assuming they don't end up just monitizing it through patent trolling to the point it makes them so much money they can't afford to kill it.

Re:Google Does This Too (1)

mystikkman (1487801) | about 2 years ago | (#41264127)

>The day Gingerbread/ICS/JB was announced I could develop for it - ok maybe there was a day or two while it was uploaded - but none of this "oh sorry, only a few developers are allowed to work on JB"

I know this is Slashdot's bash MS article of the hour but citation please?

We're talking about a pre-release version. Was there a prerelease version/SDK of ICS distributed to OEMs or public outside of Google/Samsung? Even Windows beta versions are released to the public, unlike Google's completely closed development of Android(source code is thrown over a wall at release time, unlike Linux, Firefox etc.)..

Re:Google Does This Too (0)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41261163)

I don't recall Google stifling Android like this. Nothing to worry about. Microsoft can do what it likes. Android and iOS have such commanding leads that Microsoft is likely irrelevant.

Re:Google Does This Too (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 2 years ago | (#41261695)

Microsoft seems to think Apple nailed everything. Perhaps someone should shout "developers, developers, developers" in Balmer's ear.

Makes sense (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41260723)

Nobody's buying WPhones, so by forcing developers to apply you get names of bona fide idiots and know whom never, ever to hire.

BUT WILL ANYONE CARE ?? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41260725)

Show of hands !!

I said, Show of hands !!

Re:BUT WILL ANYONE CARE ?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41263669)

I've been using Metro since getting a used HTC HD7 second hand a year ago and Windows 8 since the very first preview dropped some months back. Metro has got to be the most retarded worthless excuse for an interface since the NES Powerglove. It is ugly for one thing. It looks like unicorn shit viewed through a kaleidoscope in a funhouse mirror blended with unicorn shit. As bad as it was with windows phone 7 they've now made it worse with multiple size squares that make absolutely no sense. You can make the fucking icon tiles bigger than the hub tiles. WTF?? There is no rhyme nor reason. It makes moving from Windows 8 workstation to another like learning a new OS. Thankfully at least they still have search, e.g., the command line interface, because without it every so-called modern version of Windows since Vista is too confusing to every dig down through the multiple level menus within menus to actually find something useful like, oh I don't know, the fucking FONT SIZE. But I digress.

Windows Phone 8 and the new Nokia Lumias are bigger let-downs than the MS faithful could ever have feared. Worthless expensive accessories like 300 dollar monaural speakers for the Lumia phones (WTF??) all the way to the completely and incompetently faked 920 Pureview demo. And the lame excuse was? "Oh, uh, we were just showing what it could be, you know, if we actually had the technical chops to execute on it." Well, fuck, I'm going to demo everything from now on with an attachment that makes ready to eat hot pockets appear on demand. I mean, fuck it, I don't have to actually be able to make it happen, I'm just showing what could be done. Right? Right?? Wow, tell me another one Microkia.

And the interface of the phones? Ugly same-old-shit. Looks just like wp7 except, oh, now the tiles are different sizes and more confusing. And somebody saw the light and threw that "negative space" hipster bullshit out the window and actually centered the home screen. That's the most "innovative" thing they did. Ape iOS and Android and actually made the interface not look fucked up and lop-sided. Well, guess what, fuckboys... Aping the competition ISN'T ENOUGH. Why should I give up my Galaxy Nexus and my iPad for your shite? I don't know because you want even let developers write anything for it. Your shit is vaporware.

And before I end this I just want you all to know that there were some things I liked about my HD7. I did see potential in what MS was doing even if I fundamentally disagreed with the enforced walled-garden and the fact that it was so tyed in to MS' other platforms like Windows and XBox. That being said, I now see my optimism was misplaced and MS has no clue what to do in the mobile space and are more than happy to take down Nokia with them. Nokia, you could have gotten back on top. You used to be the king of smartphones with Symbian until the iPhone and by extension Android came and stomped you in the ground and showed people what a real smartphone should look like. But you had a potential winner in your back pocket the whole time. You released the N770 with Maemo in 2005. You actually got it right with that one. It was golden. Just add the inspiration of a cpacitive screen and multi-touch and you would have dominated 7 years ago. The N900 and N9 are two of the best phones the world has ever seen. The N9 sales towered over the Lumia line for a bit despite you doing everything in your power to make that not happen. Little to no advertising, not releasing in the major markets like the US, publicly demonizing it by no less than the CEO himself. And yet it sold millions. Why? Because people liked it. Maemo/Meego/Tizen whatever you want to call it could have been the cornerstone for your iPhone. But you let the fox in the henhouse and now look at you. An also-ran with an OS that is a never-was.

Like someone involved with an actual successful mobile OS once said, "Two turkeys don't make an eagle." Can anyone really deny this now?

Hidden Fortressed Garden (5, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | about 2 years ago | (#41260735)

*Setting: Microsoft executive officers meeting*
Steve Ballmer: Alright you dumbshits, I've been up all night reading about this new "walled garden" thing that Apple has and I want one for Microsoft!
Executive #1: Are you serious? Why play their game? We've been gaining developers by opening up to the community and ...
Steve Ballmer: Shut up and get out, you're fired. Anyone else want to call me a copycat?
Executive #2: We could ... we could cancel our "free" express version of Visual Studio?
Steve Ballmer: That's a good idea but we need something better, something that sends a message to developers developers developers developers that we don't even need them. It used to be about the developers developers developers developers but maybe -- just maybe -- they're like women and you gotta hit 'em a little bit so they appreciate when you're nice to them. I don't just want a measly walled garden, I want a fortressed garden with turrets that shoot anything that moves and has a Guantanamo Bay garden where no one has any rights and developers developers developers developers are tortured while we urinate on copies of the GPL and ...
Executive #3: Well, my division's about to release the Windows Phone 8 SDK, we could, say, charge $100 for people just to see the API?
Steve Ballmer: That's good but it's not quite there yet. That sounds like those Member's Only jackets that weren't really "members only" and anyone with a bennie could pick one up. I mean when I was an up and coming star in this company I bought one and thought that it was a mark of success and then there I was in McDonald's ordering my daily seven quarter pounders with cheese and this fucking teenager has a Members Only jacket on. And so I ask him what club he's a member of that he thinks he can wear this piece of clothing around and he laughs and says 'Dude, it's 2005, every thrift store in the world sells these for $5, it's like, ironic, you know, hipster' and so then I just reach over the counter to strangle the last breath out of his ...
Executive #3: *AHEM* Wellllll, we could actually make this "members only" and send out invitations to participate in the release of the Windows 8 SDK.
Steve Ballmer: YES! That's what I'm talkin' about. That's the kind of innovation and vision this company needs! You just won the income of this dumbass over here ...
Executive #1: What?! You can't do that!
Steve Ballmer: Oh I can. In fact, fuck it, it's retroactive for this fiscal year. You'll get a bill in the mail. Cheer up, your taxes just got a whole lot easier.
*huffing and puffing, Ballmer drags a stack of chairs up to the conference table next to the shocked first executive*
Steve Ballmer: ... or do we have a problem?

Re:Hidden Fortressed Garden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41260805)

AWESOME! I can't wait for the movie!!

Re:Hidden Fortressed Garden (1)

tnk1 (899206) | about 2 years ago | (#41260967)

AWESOME! I can't wait for the movie!!

I hear Michael Bay is directing.

Re:Hidden Fortressed Garden (1)

Desler (1608317) | about 2 years ago | (#41260995)

With a soundtrack by Michael Bolton.

Microsoft has a new business model!! (1)

swschrad (312009) | about 2 years ago | (#41261407)

they're copying RIM

jackets (1)

hAckz0r (989977) | about 2 years ago | (#41262317)

in the light of that saga, shouldn't all straightjackets come with a monogramed MS logo on it? Or should they give out a free straightjacket to all members of the Exclusive Club they are now forming?

Hopefully MS was never trained how to correctly secure a real straightjacket, the true excape artists just hate when that happens. Note to self, never volunteer to help in a magic act again.

Re:Hidden Fortressed Garden (1)

kaizendojo (956951) | about 2 years ago | (#41262557)

If there's ever a ./ hall of fame, I'd like to nominate this post.

'You know the problem with the other app stores?' (5, Funny)

queazocotal (915608) | about 2 years ago | (#41260775)

'Too many apps'.

Re:'You know the problem with the other app stores (1)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | about 2 years ago | (#41261151)

Too many apps

Maybe there's an app for that?

Re:'You know the problem with the other app stores (1)

firex726 (1188453) | about 2 years ago | (#41261205)

Seriously, that's basically what sells a smartphone platform now.

You can have the greatest HW ever but if there are no apps to take advantage of it...

Something about apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41261441)

Eight....minute....apps....

Re:'You know the problem with the other app stores (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41261661)

'Too many apps'.

Have you honestly never felt that way? How many apps have you seen and thought "Umm, this is just a website. Why does this exist?"

Re:'You know the problem with the other app stores (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41262647)

'Too many apps'.

I think that's actually the driving force behind a lot of Microsoft's behaviour lately: to limit the number of programs that are available.

I assume MS would rather have only a single, paid app for any given use. Without competition from smaller app developers, they can make more money than with the current Windows software ecosystem; especially if they can establish a seller-monopoly like Apple's iTunes for iDevices. One way to do this is to raise the barrier of entry, so that only a few big players get in.

Re:'You know the problem with the other app stores (0)

jo42 (227475) | about 2 years ago | (#41263479)

You meant to write "Too many crapps".

Who cares (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41260783)

And all 5 Windws Phone developers are devastated.

Re:Who cares (1, Interesting)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41261021)

Yes. I own one and am currently working at a Microsoft consultancy and am MS cert, yet I doubt I'll poke it with a stick or buy another one.

Android next time...

Re:Who cares (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41261079)

Basically, you've just told us all that you're a retard. That's not something i would've admitted.

Re:Who cares (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41261239)

Basically, you've just told us all that you're a retard. That's not something i would've admitted.

Well since he's seen the light, I wouldn't call him a retard.
Now those that continue using WP, those are certified retards.

Re:Who cares (1)

oakgrove (845019) | about 2 years ago | (#41261341)

Irony is better when you don't overdo it.

Re:Who cares (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 2 years ago | (#41261833)

Yeah, less starch next time.

Re:Who cares (0)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | about 2 years ago | (#41261175)

"Who cares?"

That is the real question.

Warning: Link autoplays ads at full volume (1, Offtopic)

Painted (1343347) | about 2 years ago | (#41260851)

Probably too late, but be aware that the "developers are less than happy" link in the summary autoplays an ad for some marginally NSFW topics (not really NSFW but enough to make some uncomfortable- frank discussions of teen sex, etc.)

WHAT?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41260953)

not really NSFW but enough to make some uncomfortable- frank discussions of teen sex, etc.

I code for a teen sex site, you insensitive clod!

Re:WHAT?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41261139)

I code for a teen sex site, you insensitive clod!

Luciano Ammenti, is that you?

Re:WHAT?! (2)

Desler (1608317) | about 2 years ago | (#41261153)

Roman Polanski, maybe?

Re:Warning: Link autoplays ads at full volume (1)

hobarrera (2008506) | about 2 years ago | (#41261061)

a) Why don't you use adblock!?
b) Why would you have flash installed AT WORK? With no adblock?

Re:Warning: Link autoplays ads at full volume (1)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | about 2 years ago | (#41261173)

Because work forces IE8 on everyone and forces Flash install. I'd love to have AdBlock, it's so weird here compared to home.

If I could, I'd use something safer, but it's not my department.

Hell, I was using IE6 up until last year. But then, I can actually look at Slashdot at work, so there's that.

(First world problems.)

Re:Warning: Link autoplays ads at full volume (1)

cbhacking (979169) | about 2 years ago | (#41263339)

IE has what amounts to a built-in Flashblock.

Tools (gear icon) -> Manage Add-ons -> select Shockwave Flash Object -> More Information (hyperlink text in the lower panel) -> Remove all sites. (These instructions are from IE9 but I believe it's the same on IE8; I just don't have a handy install of the latter).

This prevents Flashplayer from loading without you first granting it permission to do so. The grant is domain-wide, so it's less fine-grained than true Flashblock, but it does consider the source domain rather than the current page domain, so you can allow first-party Flash content while still blocking third-party ads.

You can actually turn the "InPrivate Filtering" (not to be confused with the completley unrelated "InPrivate Browsing" a.k.a. pr0n mode) into a half-decent ad blocker as well, since it will block third-party content and you can add all advertising domains to the blocklist, but that's somewhat more hassle.

Re:Warning: Link autoplays ads at full volume (1)

tooyoung (853621) | about 2 years ago | (#41262833)

My local newspaper's website used to automatically play audible ads, which was extremely annoying when I would be reading the news in the morning while my wife was still sleeping. Especially because I tend to have the computer's volume turned up loud enough for listening to music while I'm doing other stuff.

I've been told that they stopped this practice some time back. I wouldn't know as they lost me as a customer permanently for doing this.

Obviously not ready (5, Insightful)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41260853)

It's obvious: WP8 isn't really ready yet. They gave a sneak preview a while back that only contained a few features, they've been coy about when the damn thing will be released, they only showed off a couple additional features at the Lumia event, and they still won't tell us when they'll be showing off the rest of the features (BUILD 2012? who knows?), when phones are being released, which carriers will be getting them etc. Look, I like WP, and I like developing for WP, and WP8 will be my next OS, but this is getting beyond stupid.

Re:Obviously not ready (0)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 2 years ago | (#41261095)

Releasing things that aren't quite ready? Microsoft? Never!!! Sounds like that Vanity Fair piece was more right than nought. MS is behind when it comes to smartphones/tablets. They blew a huge lead. To catch up you would think that they would get on track when it comes to execution, but no.

You would think that they would work on execution.

Re:Obviously not ready (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41261235)

The shareholders are going to want to work on execution once Win8 lands with a thud. And they're going to want to start by executing Ballmer.

Re:Obviously not ready (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41263619)

The shareholders are going to want to work on execution once Win8 lands with a thud. And they're going to want to start by executing Ballmer.

I've been using Metro since getting a used HTC HD7 second hand a year ago and Windows 8 since the very first preview dropped some months back. Metro has got to be the most retarded worthless excuse for an interface since the NES Powerglove. It is ugly for one thing. It looks like unicorn shit viewed through a kaleidoscope in a funhouse mirror blended with unicorn shit. As bad as it was with windows phone 7 they've now made it worse with multiple size squares that make absolutely no sense. You can make the fucking icon tiles bigger than the hub tiles. WTF?? There is no rhyme nor reason. It makes moving from Windows 8 workstation to another like learning a new OS. Thankfully at least they still have search, e.g., the command line interface, because without it every so-called modern version of Windows since Vista is too confusing to every dig down through the multiple level menus within menus to actually find something useful like, oh I don't know, the fucking FONT SIZE. But I digress.

Windows Phone 8 and the new Nokia Lumias are bigger let-downs than the MS faithful could ever have feared. Worthless expensive accessories like 300 dollar monaural speakers for the Lumia phones (WTF??) all the way to the completely and incompetently faked 920 Pureview demo. And the lame excuse was? "Oh, uh, we were just showing what it could be, you know, if we actually had the technical chops to execute on it." Well, fuck, I'm going to demo everything from now on with an attachment that makes ready to eat hot pockets appear on demand. I mean, fuck it, I don't have to actually be able to make it happen, I'm just showing what could be done. Right? Right?? Wow, tell me another one Microkia.

And the interface of the phones? Ugly same-old-shit. Looks just like wp7 except, oh, now the tiles are different sizes and more confusing. And somebody saw the light and threw that "negative space" hipster bullshit out the window and actually centered the home screen. That's the most "innovative" thing they did. Ape iOS and Android and actually made the interface not look fucked up and lop-sided. Well, guess what, fuckboys... Aping the competition ISN'T ENOUGH. Why should I give up my Galaxy Nexus and my iPad for your shite? I don't know because you want even let developers write anything for it. Your shit is vaporware.

And before I end this I just want you all to know that there were some things I liked about my HD7. I did see potential in what MS was doing even if I fundamentally disagreed with the enforced walled-garden and the fact that it was so tyed in to MS' other platforms like Windows and XBox. That being said, I now see my optimism was misplaced and MS has no clue what to do in the mobile space and are more than happy to take down Nokia with them. Nokia, you could have gotten back on top. You used to be the king of smartphones with Symbian until the iPhone and by extension Android came and stomped you in the ground and showed people what a real smartphone should look like. But you had a potential winner in your back pocket the whole time. You released the N770 with Maemo in 2005. You actually got it right with that one. It was golden. Just add the inspiration of a cpacitive screen and multi-touch and you would have dominated 7 years ago. The N900 and N9 are two of the best phones the world has ever seen. The N9 sales towered over the Lumia line for a bit despite you doing everything in your power to make that not happen. Little to no advertising, not releasing in the major markets like the US, publicly demonizing it by no less than the CEO himself. And yet it sold millions. Why? Because people liked it. Maemo/Meego/Tizen whatever you want to call it could have been the cornerstone for your iPhone. But you let the fox in the henhouse and now look at you. An also-ran with an OS that is a never-was.

Like someone involved with an actual successful mobile OS once said, "Two turkeys don't make an eagle." Can anyone really deny this now?

Re:Obviously not ready (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41261701)

It's obvious: WP8 isn't really ready yet

they still won't tell us when they'll be showing off the rest of the features (BUILD 2012? who knows?)

and WP8 will be my next OS

So you don't know what the features are yet it will be your next phone and you tirelessly come on here (and Engadget) to attack Android. Thanks for confirming you are little more than a sheep fanboy who's opinions are completely worthless.

Re:Obviously not ready (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41263721)

So you don't know what the features are yet it will be your next phone

Yes, based on my satisfaction with the current platform, the leaked SDK, the information that's been released so far, and the fact that I develop software for the platform, I don't see why it's unreasonable to anticipate WP8 will be my next platform.

you tirelessly come on here (and Engadget) to attack Android.

I'd love for you to point me to this tireless attack on Android... I have a measly 400 total comments on Engadget over the course of like 3 years. So tireless!

Thanks for confirming you are little more than a sheep fanboy who's opinions are completely worthless.

And who exactly are you, AC? Try logging in first and then talk to me about reputation.

Re:Obviously not ready (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41264637)

Yes, based on my satisfaction with the current platform,

But this isn't the current platform we're talking about. Remember when MS went from Windows (Phone) 6.5 to 7? You would be a fool to base your purchase of a future version of MS' mobile product on what is currently available. And 8 is to be a significant departure from 7.x so comparing it to the 6.5 > 7 scenario is quite apt.

the leaked SDK

MS is notorious for cutting features from the operating systems. Remember Longhorn and the fabled database file system? We still have seen hide nor hair of this. Basing your enthusiasm on the leaked SDK is ludicrous in light of MS' history.

the information that's been released so far

Like what? That the squares will be resizable? None of these little details matter until we have the official units in hand and have put them through their paces. You have no idea beyond the basics what features will be in store and you have no way of knowing if the features that do ship will integrate well or offer anything really compelling to develop against.

and the fact that I develop software for the platform

Without the official SDK, you develop nothing for Windows Phone 8. Windows Phone 7 apps don't count as you might as just stick with your Lumia 900 since they run on it just as well. And if you're counting web "apps" then you're developing for all platforms unless you're needlessly making dependencies for some MS specific feature, i.e., you're a dumbass.

I don't see why it's unreasonable to anticipate WP8 will be my next platform.

Hold up, sparky. I didn't say it was "unreasonable". You can anticipate anything you want as your next platform. Hell, you can go all in on a Neo Freerunner for all I care. But when you make those kind of statements on the tail end of a post detailing how disappointed you are at the lack of dev tools, and feature details for any platform then it is reasonable for me to point out that you are by definition a "fanboy" so you're opinions are pretty much worthless as they will always be colored by your irrational enthusiasm for one particular platform.

I'd love for you to point me to this tireless attack on Android... I have a measly 400 total comments on Engadget over the course of like 3 years. So tireless!

400 posts the vast majority being one note MS boosterism and Android detraction. If a story on Engadget has anything to do with Windows Phone, you are quite often there to defend it and present its competition in a negative light. This post here is the most critical thing I've ever seen you say about the platform but it still closed on how you were just going to buy a wp8 phone "anyway". That's just blind fanaticism and it's sad.

And who exactly are you, AC? Try logging in first and then talk to me about reputation.

I can't log in on this computer for a variety of reasons but I'll be sure to attach a comment to one of yours on Engadget later to clue you in.

Re:Obviously not ready (4, Interesting)

SpzToid (869795) | about 2 years ago | (#41262937)

It's obvious: WP8 isn't really ready yet.

Not only that, but the rapid path to market that Microsoft promised Nokia, was the excuse Nokia's CEO Stephen Elop wrote as the reasoning behind the 'Burning Platform' memo in February 2011. Since then Elop has gone out of his way to fire any in-house developer that is not assigned to work on Windows phones. Elop burned all that Linux expertise, because of the Microsoft Fast-track promised. Nokia also burned all those QT developers, Intel, etc. after Elop went gangbusters for Microsoft. In fact at the time Elop said the amount of bugs to ship a Linux platform was greater than the Windows Phone fast-track, (nevermind the Nokia N9 team totally proved him wrong by delivering a most-excellent phone, before they were all fired by Elop).

FWIW, Elop has also demonstrated zero Plan B, because no doubt he doesn't expect to be there for Plan B should the Plan B option even exist once he's finished.

Re:Obviously not ready (1)

SQLGuru (980662) | about 2 years ago | (#41263223)

I'd be more inclined to think that it's because too many announcements have been leaked because people picked apart the SDK. (i.e. the 9-pin Apple connector)

Limiting the SDK release would likely minimize these types of leaks.

Re:Obviously not ready (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 2 years ago | (#41263719)

The number of developers they can release it to before every detail is out is approximately one.

In other words.... (4, Insightful)

romanval (556418) | about 2 years ago | (#41260861)

we're rushing as fast as we can to put out the OS even if it's not entirely finished, but we'll gladly sell the phone anyways cause that's what software updates are made for.

It's probably not a huge deal since Apple didn't release a iPhone OS SDK until a year and a half after the iPhone was introduced.... except MS will needs every advantage they can get to make WP8 have a dent in the phone market...

Re:In other words.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41261345)

It's probably not a huge deal since Apple didn't release a iPhone OS SDK until a year and a half after the iPhone was introduced..

Apple figured that it would take their fanbois at least this much time to take their precious out of the fancy box.

Re:In other words.... (2)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 2 years ago | (#41261521)

For Apple it wasn't a big deal as iOS and Android were not established. For MS releasing things halfway doesn't win them any converts as if their adoption rate wasn't already bad comparatively.

Windows phone isn't news for nerds. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41260867)

It isn't news for anyone, except people that don't know any better and accidentally buy it. Everyone knows Microsoft has the best marketing engine in the world, but I'm surprised windos phone is being seen on slashdot every day, maybe I need a better news site.

Re:Windows phone isn't news for nerds. (1)

Desler (1608317) | about 2 years ago | (#41260907)

Everyone knows Microsoft has the best marketing engine in the world

You're joking, right? Microsoft has some of the worst marketing ever. Their ads and marketing campaigns are terrible...

Re:Windows phone isn't news for nerds. (1)

denis-The-menace (471988) | about 2 years ago | (#41262129)

but I bet they now where to take you out to wine and dine to into signing contracts with them.

Re:Windows phone isn't news for nerds. (1)

Radres (776901) | about 2 years ago | (#41260919)

"Everyone knows Microsoft has the best marketing engine in the world..."

BAHAHAHA!!!

From the geniuses that brought us this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11NOblvuEpU [youtube.com]

Re:Windows phone isn't news for nerds. (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41261357)

I disagree. I don't think Microsoft has a good marketing division any more, or at least it's too overloaded to do any good. I would say Apple's marketing easily exceeds Microsoft's in competency and charisma.

There is no room for error that I can see. Microsoft is years late to this party, and to be pissing off developers is insane. This isn't 1995 any more, where Microsoft's market share basically gave it carte blanche to do whatever it likes to developers and customers.

If the 8 isn't ready soon, then so far as I can tell there will be no reason to complete it at all. Developers have no lack of options these days.

Everything about this OS is insane. No AD integration, when that is the one thing that would have made corporate customers stand up and take notice, and now developers being given the cold shoulder. Just bizarre.

Re:Windows phone isn't news for nerds. (2)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 2 years ago | (#41261591)

I don't think MS ever really had good marketing to consumers. MS made their fortune selling to businesses (even to OEMs). Selling to consumers requires a different approach.

A: Developers, developers, developers! (2)

sjames (1099) | about 2 years ago | (#41260969)

Q: Who are you going to shit on next?

Re:A: Developers, developers, developers! (1)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about 2 years ago | (#41263449)

One of the reasons that Windows was so successful was that there was such a low buy-in cost to become a developer.

One of the reasons that OS/2 was such a failure what that there was such a HIGH buy-in cost to become a developer. Well, that and some backstabbing from Microsoft.

The only reason Windows 8 has a shot at becoming the #3 portable device OS platform after iOS and Android is that the other competitors are downright puny in comparison. Things like WebOS, Symbian, and so forth were already failing.

Microsoft learned this from Apple... (0, Troll)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41261003)

Microsoft learned this from Apple i.e by treating their developers like crap.

People are bailing out of Microsoft's development ecosystem quite rapidly at the moment. If you beat 'em with a stick like this, they ain't crawling back this time for the next VS release as they'll have Eclipse down and writing Android apps before you can burp the alphabet.

Re:Microsoft learned this from Apple... (2)

Desler (1608317) | about 2 years ago | (#41261131)

Learned what from Apple? All Apple get early access to pre-release iOS versions and SDKs. This is pretty much the opposite of what Apple does. But don't let facts get in the way of your Apple bashing.

Re:Microsoft learned this from Apple... (1)

Desler (1608317) | about 2 years ago | (#41261149)

"All Apple" should be "All Apple registered iOS Developers"

Re:Microsoft learned this from Apple... (1)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41261213)

No I'm 100% right. Apple developers pay for the privilege to develop on the platform, then get screwed, apps pulled etc. Apple has never been about developers. I dumped the platform in 2008 as it was a risky bet. Microsoft are copying this model.

I'm not talking about SDK distribution. The Windows Phone SDK is pay to deploy as well (even on your own device).

Re:Microsoft learned this from Apple... (1)

Desler (1608317) | about 2 years ago | (#41261309)

So despite referencing the topic at hand, which was solely about tool access, you weren't talking about the topic at hand but wanted to throw Apple in for no good reason? Ok...

Re:Microsoft learned this from Apple... (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 2 years ago | (#41261659)

With Apple you pay for the right to deploy to a device. To code and develop to an eumlator you need to register.

Re:Microsoft learned this from Apple... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41261251)

If you beat 'em with a stick like this, they ain't crawling back this time for the next VS release as they'll have Eclipse down and writing Android apps before you can burp the alphabet.

But but but the first post shills Microsoft hired to troll Slashdot keep saying VS is the bestest IDE ever in the whole wide world EVER! And that all the heathens will bow before the Shrine of Ballmer in Redmond, WA! And they get FIRST POST! Are... are you trying to say... that a first post shill is... is... wrong somehow?

MyCleanPC and GameMaker (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41261463)

But but but the first post shills Microsoft hired to troll Slashdot keep saying VS is the bestest IDE ever in the whole wide world EVER!

Other shills claim that YoYo's GameMaker is better than Pygame. Still other shills claim that MyCleanPC is better than backing up the documents, wiping the computer, and putting on Xubuntu.

Are... are you trying to say... that a first post shill is... is... wrong somehow?

Umm... yeah.

Re:Microsoft learned this from Apple... (1)

JDG1980 (2438906) | about 2 years ago | (#41261961)

Microsoft learned this from Apple i.e by treating their developers like crap.

But the difference is that Apple was pretty much breaking new ground with the iPhone and iPad, so they got to set the terms. (Note that the "treat developers like crap" strategy wasn't, and isn't, really all that successful on the desktop versions of MacOS.) These devices sold like mad, so if developers wanted access, they had to play by Apple's rules. Microsoft does not and will not have that advantage with Windows Phone. In fact, they're going up against two entrenched competitors (iOS and Android). They have to convince developers to build stuff for their platform; they can't expect developers to beg for the privilege. If anything, they should be paying the developers of popular apps to port their stuff to WP8, as a loss leader to bring in more potential customers for the OS.

Re:Microsoft learned this from Apple... (1)

fermion (181285) | about 2 years ago | (#41262091)

On the Apple ][ basic was included and third party compilers were very affordable. On the Mac up OS 9 documentation for the API was more complete than MS ever was, and compilers were very affordable. There was never the idea that developers had to pay for acces to the API use or information, as in MS charging $500 then $1000 for MSDN. For OS X he compiler was free, paying extra got real perks, not just access to a website. When the iPhone came out, the ability to code for the phone was included in the compiler, $99 a year to run the app, which is bargian. I know that some people say that MS gives away visual studio, but anyone who says that has not tried to write a non trivial app using the free version.

MS is just doing what it always does. Nickeling a diming consumers, pitting developers against each other, and making a killing in the proces.

Re:Microsoft learned this from Apple... (1)

JDG1980 (2438906) | about 2 years ago | (#41263071)

There was never the idea that developers had to pay for acces to the API use or information, as in MS charging $500 then $1000 for MSDN.

Win32 API documentation is available for free on the MSDN website [microsoft.com] and has been for years. There's no need to pay for any subscription. If you do a Google search for a Win32 API function name, the first result will usually be the official documentation for that function.

I know that some people say that MS gives away visual studio, but anyone who says that has not tried to write a non trivial app using the free version.

What specifically can't you do with the free version? I know it doesn't support MFC, but hardly anyone ever uses that any more anyway. If you want to work with the bare metal you code to the Win32 API, otherwise you use C#/.NET, both of which are fully supported in VS Express.

Possibly,... (3, Interesting)

wbr1 (2538558) | about 2 years ago | (#41261051)

They want there store filled with there own apps and selected others first? The power of the default optipn is strong.

Re:Possibly,... (1)

Voyager529 (1363959) | about 2 years ago | (#41262011)

Except that, if my RTM build of Windows 8 courtesy of the MS VLSC is any indication...it's not filled with much of anything. No Netflix. No Pandora (though there is Slacker). No FTP clients. No IRC clients. None of the Angry Birds games (though there is Cut the Rope, and it's free). No other applications that seem to take advantage of a desktop being more powerful than a last-gen Lumia. Really, it's a pretty experience that has little of actual value. If they want to be first in...basically any category, they need to get programming themselves because no Microsoft titles are there, either.

Re:Possibly,... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41264285)

Windows 8 does not equal Windows Phone 8... they don't run the same apps period.. The SDK in question is for Windows PHONE 8 and it uses a different API than Windows 8. I actually do not remember what it is called but Phone 8 does not use WinRT.. it's a subset of WinRT and the calls are actually handled differently..

Missed Opportunity (1)

flar2 (938689) | about 2 years ago | (#41261063)

Crazy. I thought Microsoft, although very late to the game, had a legitimate chance to break into the tablet and phone market.

But isn't having apps the key to their potential success?

  There must be big problems at Microsoft

Time to move on (2)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about 2 years ago | (#41261081)

If developers would stop developing on the asshat platforms, they wouldn't have to put up with it. The only reason this kind of crap goes on is because people allow it.

When all platforms are asshat (0)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41261351)

If developers would stop developing on the asshat platforms, they wouldn't have to put up with it.

Among video game playing devices that come with a gamepad, all well-known platforms are asshat: PS3, PSVita, Wii, 3DS, and Xbox 360 all require code signing. And among smartphone platforms, Apple has been waging patent warfare against the only major non-asshat platform. One Slashdot regular has repeatedly told me to just accept the situation, pay my dues, and work with the asshats rather than around them; I can provide details on request.

In Soviet Russia (1)

mcwop (31034) | about 2 years ago | (#41261103)

Windows SDK makes appointment with you!

Start Button (2)

puddingebola (2036796) | about 2 years ago | (#41261157)

They forgot to include the start button. It will be available for $4.95, or its free if you buy a new XBOX 360.

It Only Makes Sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41261199)

They don't have multi-core support, NFC support, encryption, et al?

Why would anyone want an API without these features in today's competitive landscape?

Quit trolling (4, Insightful)

DJ Jones (997846) | about 2 years ago | (#41261215)

The summary is misleading. There's no "by appointment only" system. If you RTFA it says microsoft is releasing the API to all developers who have previously released apps. I don't think this is such a big "FU" to developers as you're making it out to be. If anything, they probably did it to reward early adopters which should be applauded. It's like saying "Hey, we're sorry we've gone and modified the entire API after you built an app so we're giving you a little extra time to upgrade your apps so that some other hot shot company can't come in and steal your product before you get a chance to upgrade". I see nothing wrong with this.

Chicken and egg (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41261399)

If you RTFA it says microsoft is releasing the API to all developers who have previously released apps.

How does one make and release an app without having the SDK?

Re:Chicken and egg (5, Funny)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 2 years ago | (#41261715)

How does one make and release an app without having the SDK?

Immaculate Compilation

+1 Interesting / Insightful / Informative / Funny (1)

zooblethorpe (686757) | about 2 years ago | (#41262391)

Gah, where are my mod points...

:-P

Re:Quit trolling (2)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41261449)

It's a liiiiiittle bit more than that.

Next Wednesday I’ll share detailed instructions on how current Windows Phone developers with published apps can apply. But I do want to set your expectations that program access will be limited. (emphasis added)

So it's restricted to developers with published apps and only a limited subset of them... maybe first come first serve, who knows. They're being very coy about this whole thing, which is what makes it that much more frustrating. They say: "The full Windows Phone 8 SDK will be made publically available later this year when we unveil Windows Phone 8." Well *when* is that? October? November? December 31 11:59:59 PM?

Obvious reason (1)

rickb928 (945187) | about 2 years ago | (#41261233)

WM9 is on schedule.

Hacking prevention (1)

cunamara (937584) | about 2 years ago | (#41261295)

Maybe they are (probably in vain) trying to keep the API out of the hands of malefactors so that there aren't a raft of zero day exploits waiting when Dub-8 hits the streets.

Likely the SDK just isn't 'ready'. Seen it before. (3, Interesting)

Sarusa (104047) | about 2 years ago | (#41262119)

I've seen this so many times before, from both sides. When the SDK is usable but not 'done' (locked down, polished up, fully documented) you restrict it to eager early devs with caveats like 'API calls subject to change!' The early devs also act as free beta/QA testers, which is the single biggest reason to do the pre-release at all. Then when it's Finished finished you release it to the wilds.

This doesn't tell you whether just the SDK isn't done or whether the OS APIs aren't locked down yet either. The latter would be bad if they're intending to get the SDK out this year.

MS jumping on yet another bandwagon (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41262285)

Sorry, Microsoft. I know you want to be the next Apple and therefore seek to become as evil as them, but there's a flaw in
your plan: Apple is the new Microsoft and therefore seeks to become as evil as you. And they're faster than you,
except for the important cases where whoever is first, loses.

Apple didn't really invent the idea of telling developers to go fuck themselves. (Which is also a way of telling
users to fuck themselves too, since an enlightened user will want a free market in their available
application software to exist. But fortunately, Apple courts the kind of users where, when you say "fuck you" to
them, they hear "You're so beautiful, I want to fuck you.")

Apple copied the Fuck You model from the videogame console guys, whose evil you already ripped off
when you created the XBox. That's right, MS, you were already here first. (And even the videogame console
guys merely stole their evil from 1960s IBM. This shit can probably be traced back to medieval guilds, if you're
careful enough.)

You can't impress us with your "But we're as Evil as Apple now" statement, because you were hated before it was
cool to be hated. That makes you: Not Cool.

Sounds like they want to head off homebrew (1)

sethstorm (512897) | about 2 years ago | (#41262707)

The last time around, they just bought off the developers and closed the hole off.

This time around, they're making sure nobody exists that has to be bought off.

The "It's not ready" calls sound like they're apologizing for such actions.

too much apps waiting in approval queue (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41262739)

in this period you may have to wait up to 20 days before having your application certified while other apps are approved in 3 days.

I think there are a lot of applications stuck in the queue and they probably need to clear the backlog first.

Windows Phone dev planning (1)

Azathfeld (725855) | about 2 years ago | (#41262913)

"We're way behind in the app game. How do we encourage developers?" "Whatever you do, DON'T LET THEM WRITE ANY APPS!"

That's odd... (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 2 years ago | (#41264165)

When I pointed out in another article that the death of Windows Phone 8 would be because it had no apps, I was told that there would be plenty of apps, because all the Windows 8 apps would *be* Windows Phone 8 apps. But if that's true, why is there even a Windows Phone 8 SDK? Won't they all just be using the Windows 8 SDK? Or could it be that developing for a smartphone *is* different from developing for the desktop, after all?

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