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Torque 3D To Be Released On Github Under the MIT License

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the tux-racer-reboot-please dept.

Open Source 54

New submitter iamnothing writes "Eric Preisz, CEO of GarageGames, announces, 'Eleven years ago, The GarageGames founders did an incredibly innovative thing when they sold a full source game engine for $100. We are excited to continue in their footsteps by announcing that we will be releasing Torque 3D as the best open source game technology in the world. Once again, GarageGames will be changing game development.'"

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Finally, I can now achieve my goal. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41298919)

Making the first WOW-Killer.

It'll do things nobody has ever done before...just as soon as somebody else thinks of them.

First (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41298931)

Interesting, guess unity and such ate into too much of their market for it to remain profitable?

Re:First (2)

mehemiah (971799) | about 2 years ago | (#41299029)

agreed. Also, I HATE that engine, Have you ever used it? Imagine if Powerpoint or flash moved all your elements slightly esque every time you pushed the play button!

Re:First (0)

mehemiah (971799) | about 2 years ago | (#41299069)

Also, Unity3d is much prittier. After Unity3d became freeware, tourque3d (not tourque2) was completely useless.

Re: Unity (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41300155)

No source code with Unity. Not free to publish, only to tinker. If your happy with just scripting, knock yourself out.
T3D is open source (MIT at that).

Re: Unity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41305309)

Correct that there is no source code with unity (I'm not sure why you'd need it unless you're doing something really out there)

It IS most definitely free to publish (unless you make more than $100k/year, and then you can probably afford the $1500 license)

Unity is one of those things for people who actually care more about making games rather than dicking around in code. Yeah, you can't do everything that you can in OpenGL. But that's not what game design is about. If you have a multi-million dollar budget, sure, roll your own (nobody with this much money does.. they use UDK or CryEngine), but if you don't have that kind of capital, Unity lets you focus on the meaningful bits (making the game fun) for little or no money.

Re: Unity (1)

mehemiah (971799) | about 2 years ago | (#41306665)

I never said that Unity3d was open source (though you do get a source licence with the pro licence, I said that Unity3d was far supurior BEFORE it was open source. Its like saying, "but Star office is open source," the DAY it goes open source.

Re: Unity (1)

iamnothing (178490) | about 2 years ago | (#41312217)

You do not get a source license with Pro. You get SDK access to the binary engine, similar to what UDK has out of the box. A source license costs a lot of money (just like UDK).

Blender3D is better (1)

mehemiah (971799) | about 2 years ago | (#41306735)

Please, BLENDER 3D is better than this crap! All you need is the blender starter kit BGhelper [] , (something that needs to be better advertised) thanks Solar Lune. Its in a decent scripting language (python) it has a 3d world editor where everything stays put! All this for beginners, if you want more, you can learn about shaders, extend it in python OR C++, AND it's open source! GPLv2 (licence arguments aside) but your games can be any licence unlike tourque (pre open source) OR Unity. Besides, its like saying, "but Star office is open source," the DAY it goes open source

The fuck? How did you get that? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41299531)


I'm assuming you meant to write "askew". How the hell did you fuck it up so badly?

Re:The fuck? How did you get that? (1)

mehemiah (971799) | about 2 years ago | (#41306827)

thanks, i deserve that lol.

Re:First (1)

ConceptJunkie (24823) | about 2 years ago | (#41319451)

It took me quite a while to realize you meant "askew".

slashdotted... (1)

drakaan (688386) | about 2 years ago | (#41298995)

EXCEPTION: (index.php): Could not connect to any databases in file /var/www/ on line 91 from URL /community/blogs/view/21876

#0 /var/www/ Data::_getDatabaseConnection()
#1 /var/www/ Data::_getDatabaseConnection()
#2 /var/www/ Data::_getDatabaseConnection()
#3 /var/www/ Data::connect()
#4 {main}

Hope it's better than their website (1)

MadCat (796) | about 2 years ago | (#41299013)

Hope the engine code is better than their website code, seems the site's down, and the proper slashdotting hasn't even started yet...

(yes I'm being sarcastic, relax...)

Re:Hope it's better than their website (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41299035)

Trust me .. it's not ( been a licensee for some time )

That would change gaming... (3, Informative)

eagee (1308589) | about 2 years ago | (#41299023)

If Torque wasn't kind of a crappy game engine... I mean, I've worked in Torque, and it was pretty rinky dink by comparable standards.

Re:That would change gaming... (1)

cod3r_ (2031620) | about 2 years ago | (#41300353)

T3D is different and mor bettar

Re:That would change gaming... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41300879)

Torque has always been more of a "Lets throw all this code in and hope people can make a game with it" type of engine. This is great if you want something to build off of, though not so great if you want something clean and consistent.

Re:That would change gaming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41303917)

Same, it's not even the abysmal quality of their products, it's that they lie repeatedly. Each time Eric Preiz says something you can be sure it's probably a lie, the bit about it being the best open source game engine being the likely candidate for the lie portion of his latest quote.

Honestly, I was a customer of theirs for years, but for over a decade with nearly every product they released they'd lie about what features it would have and simply never deliver. Some never even got close to the promised features and they wouldn't give a reason either. The RTS kit never got finished as promised, Torque3D never got finished as promised, TorqueX, never got finished as promised.

Their company has been through numerous owners as they've repeatedly gone bankrupt, I'm amazed anyone even cares what they think or say anymore.

The only thing it'll change is to poor more gullable sods to their company which effectively amounts to a scam operation where they repeatedly promise and never deliver.

It's a shame, because I think Torque as an indie engine when it originally became so was actually done with noble goals, it was a good thing, an excellent boost for indie gamers. Nowadays? what has now become GG? It's just a major joke and these incompetent piss takers at the company now are just taking people for a ride.

Re:That would change gaming... (1)

iamnothing (178490) | about 2 years ago | (#41306019)

Same, it's not even the abysmal quality of their products, it's that they lie repeatedly. Each time Eric Preiz says something you can be sure it's probably a lie, the bit about it being the best open source game engine being the likely candidate for the lie portion of his latest quote.

Interesting. It seems like you've never actually met or listened to Eric. I'd be interested to know what lies you think he has told.

I'm used to seeing the usual Torque vs. Unity/UDK/CryEngine hate on forums (like much of what is in this thread), but I usually don't see people troll on Eric much.

We're so excited... (2)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about 2 years ago | (#41299025)

We forgot to cluster the webserver

Eh? (4, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | about 2 years ago | (#41299075)

"Several notable commercial titles developed using the Torque engine include Blockland, Marble Blast Gold, Minions of Mirth, TubeTwist, Ultimate Duck Hunting, Wildlife Tycoon: Venture Africa, ThinkTanks, The Destiny of Zorro, Penny Arcade Adventures and most recently, indie video games S.P.A.Z. and Frozen Synapse."

Sorry, but apart from the last two (who don't exactly excel in their fields, though FS is a good enough turn-based shooter to be fun in multiplayer), that's not a good advertisement.

And a game engine is a game engine. It just takes work away from programmers who already know how to write one, if they could be bothered, so they can focus on the game itself rather than trivialities (and lots of indie studios make their own engines because it's just that much easier if you keep it all in-house and know what every line does). It's a time-saving device, not a miracle of engineering.

To say the article summary has some hyperbole is to understate it dramatically.

Re:Eh? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41299299)

The engine also powered Tribes and Tribes 2 but in earlier stages (technically the engine that was used for Tribes 1 was called Darkstar I think...but from what I understand that basically evolved into the v12 engine which powered Tribes2...which was then renamed Torque when it was released for $100. I think at the time GarageGames actually wanted to open source it, but due to some issues with Sierra/VUG, they had to charge $100 for it)

Re:Eh? (2)

taktoa (1995544) | about 2 years ago | (#41299901)

Open source Tribes 2 would be freaking awesome. That game was fantastic... it had a mod called Construction Mod that effectively mimicked Minecraft / Garry's Mod (albeit with somewhat different mechanics), except it was released in 2003 (GMod was 2006, Minecraft was 2009). I played that mod extensively - it was very fun. Even vanilla Tribes 2 was great - IMO Tribes 2 and Battlefield 2 were some of the most groundbreaking multiplayer FPS's.

Re:Eh? (1)

Thalagyrt (851883) | about 2 years ago | (#41302759)

I'll just leave this here: [] []

We still play. Our pub (Goon Haven) has between 10-20 players on at any given time. Even have ladder matches going on pretty regularly!

Re:Eh? (1)

Adriax (746043) | about 2 years ago | (#41308885)

Yeah, I tried that a year ago or so. At first I was happy to get to play tribes again, then I quit after my entire team started berating me for not knowing bombers were glorified missiles used to fly into the enemy base, not over it...

Re:Eh? (1)

Thalagyrt (851883) | about 2 years ago | (#41312153)

Yeah, some of the players that have stuck around seem to think that the way people do things in comp are the only way to do things, and have completely lost sight of the fact that it's a game that's meant to be fun first and foremost.

Re:Eh? (2)

X0563511 (793323) | about 2 years ago | (#41299337)

That's a direct quote from the wikipedia article on the engine [] and is not in the summary. If you don't like it, feel free to edit it or discuss it on the talk page.

Ethernet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41299793)

Forgetting commercial titles for a moment, does this mean that Revenge of the Cats could be completely Free soon? Is this the torque engine it uses? []

Re:Ethernet (1)

iamnothing (178490) | about 2 years ago | (#41303207)

I believe RotC was released with TGE. Depending on the version, we could definitely work with them. If it was one of the later versions, then we would have to remove some proprietary code. But it's definitely in the realm of possibility.

Re:Eh? (4, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | about 2 years ago | (#41299897)

Sorry, but apart from the last two (who don't exactly excel in their fields, though FS is a good enough turn-based shooter to be fun in multiplayer), that's not a good advertisement.

If you can make a complete game in it, it's a good game engine. If the game sucks, that's the designers fault, not the engine's.

Re:Eh? (2)

Ignacio (1465) | about 2 years ago | (#41300823)

Sure, but there's a difference between making a great game in 1 year with a great engine, and making a great game in 3 years with a poor engine.

Re:Eh? (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | about 2 years ago | (#41301229)

If the game's graphics and input and sound sync suck because the engine sucked, that's the engine's fault (and the developer's for choosing it).

I'm not saying that's the case with Torque, I'm just saying that engines have limitations that can cause a game to suck independently of the skills of the programmer using it.

Re:Eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41302019)

And every Turing complete programming language is a good language? Some tools are better than others depending on the job, and some take much more effort than others to complete common jobs. Some will be cleaner and make maintaining a project easier.

Re:Eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41300217)

and vside [] .

GitHub link (1)

monkeyhybrid (1677192) | about 2 years ago | (#41299077)

Nothing made public on there yet but presumably this is where it will be:-

GarageGames GitHub Respositories []

Re:GitHub link (1)

xxdinkxx (560434) | about 2 years ago | (#41299303)

i wish they would just drop the code already and let their traffic go there rather than hammering their sad ci page. It looks like they didn't tune or cluster their database very well

Re:GitHub link (2)

iamnothing (178490) | about 2 years ago | (#41303237)

Yup. That's where we're going to house it. We're still cleaning up the repos some. We had to make sure to pull anything that was proprietary. We're most of the way through our code review now. It will be live as soon as it and the site problems everyone has noticed are taken care of.

Awesome (2)

Georules (655379) | about 2 years ago | (#41299257)

I learned a lot tinkering with one of the older Torque engines when I was young. The community was very helpful and accepting of those with little to no programming experience. This should be a great addition to open resources.

Re:Awesome (1)

asylumx (881307) | about 2 years ago | (#41302199)

What were some good starting points? I've tinkered with 3D a few times but never got very far (I'm mostly an enterprise web guy). I never was able to find my way into the community.

Re:Awesome (2)

Georules (655379) | about 2 years ago | (#41304023)

From what I remember, I compiled the engine and then tried to tinker with it. I wanted to try to do things, like add a weapon bar or ammo counter, so I would search the forums and community resources [] to find tutorials about how to modify the code. Most people on the forums were happy to chat about adding features and many of the resource tutorial developers would provide help with the code they provided.

Slashdotted.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41299313)


Content creation pipeline? (4, Interesting)

Seriman (775126) | about 2 years ago | (#41299547)

No matter how a person might feel about the games using the engine or the engine itself, this is a good thing. If it does something wonderful for open source gaming, however, it will be through a more competent content creation pipeline. There are loads of excellent open source engines out there but getting your content into them can be a serious challenge. If it isn't released with solid import options and content creation tools it will just be another engine choice in a growing pool of already competent engines. Again, that's not a bad thing at all, it just isn't anything new.

Scamineya Lab's AI Parot DORK 3D ! (AIP3D) (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41299955)

$39,95 a seat now that would SELL!! lol

Come on MF'ers laugh, the world is going to hell fast now!
What is anything worth?

Entertainment Guidance Systems on top of Communications and Awareness Systems = Slavery, Murder, War, and Backstabbing.

Nostalgia (1)

Guru80 (1579277) | about 2 years ago | (#41300583)

That's about all it's worth. It was the first engine I ever used in-depth nearly a decade ago. I then found Unity 3d several years ago and that was a true game changer. I will take a look at it again since it is being open sourced but I can't imagine ever using it for more than the educational value of knowing how they did certain things.

Torqued Off (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41300777)

As someone who paid full price for Torque 3D, and also ShiVa, I can say without a doubt that I am very pleased to have gone on and purchased Unity3D for over five times the price of Torque. It was a lesson in where the minimum bar is for a competent product platform. Even more so since with Unity 4 my app should be portable to support Linux with only a bit of work. So if you're doing any serious development, understand that free is too expensive.

Best Open Source Game Engine (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41300797)

At the end of the day, it is the best open source game engine available today. That isn't saying much for open source game engines, but can anyone honestly name one that is better. Them going with MIT is a big plus too. My question is whether it will get ongoing support from GarageGames to keep it a viable open source project, or if it will just wither and die. One of T3Ds biggest failings is documentation. You can see from their own demos that they can do some pretty cool stuff with it (check out the ocean waves and vegetation in Pacific), but hopefully with a bigger open source audience, docs and tutorials will sprout up so that mere mortals can use it. Also, rendering on the Mac is limited and buggy. I'd like to see that get dealt with once and for all - a perfect fit for open source community.

Re:Best Open Source Game Engine (1)

Keerok (870468) | about 2 years ago | (#41306745)

What about Blender Game Engine?

A better open source engine (3, Informative)

Da_Slayer (37022) | about 2 years ago | (#41301845)

I would just like to point out the OGRE - Open Source 3D Graphics Engine [] which is MIT licensed and has been around since 2001. OGRE is a better built system and the games in the gallery show this off.

Re:A better open source engine (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41302639)

Not to burst your bubble, but the video showcase in Features on the Torque3D site has much better graphics/physics features to show.

Re:A better open source engine (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41302721)

OGRE is a graphics engine, it provides a rendering pipeline. Torque is a game engine, so it provides graphics, audio, networking, physics modelling, etc.

Too bad... (1)

csumpi (2258986) | about 2 years ago | (#41303085)

...that most torque users jumped ship to unity a long time ago, because torque sucked. And there's no reason to go back.

Good news, I was getting depressed about GG (1)

rastoboy29 (807168) | about 2 years ago | (#41304485)

I am a longtime Torque user (see my free game and I must say it is the best prototyping tool out there, at minimum.  But in recent years the inexpensive licenses did not include source, which is essential if you're really serious about making a game.

And that was a big deal because the community on the GG forums are one of the biggest benefits to using the engine.

I am well pleased by this move. 

Misconceptions about T3D vs Unity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41324955)

Folks on here slating T3D and claiming Unity is better don't really know what they are talking about. I suspect that most of them are just script kiddies.
Unity IS easier to use, but it is NOT better graphically. Most of the time, what people think is a better engine in terms of graphics just comes down to better art. But go look at some of T3D's demos and you can see it clearly matches or exceeds Unity - just look at the T3D Pacific demo, or China Town.

Its very simple. Both engines are roughly equal, but Unity is much much much easier to use. In certain areas Torque is far superior, like it's networking layer.

The problem with T3D is that it is harder to use. It's poorly documented. It's scripting layer is outdated and weak compared to Unity. But the actual performance and capabilities of the engine are just as good as Unity, and in many cases better. If you are a scripter, Unity is your only choice. You pretty much have to be a C++ programer to really use T3D. I think this makes it a great candidate for open source. I applaud Garage Games for ripping off the band aid and going full open source with MIT. Who knows, maybe someone will add support for a standard scripting language. Hopefully a larger open source audience will lead to more tutorials and better documentation. It's not inconceivable that T3D could even surpass Unity. I'd love to see that happen. It would be a huge win for the open source community.

For me personally, I'll probably still prototype in Unity, but T3D is definitely worth a look and this is great news for all indies.

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