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Motorola Ordered To Recall Android Phones and Tablets In Germany

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the continuing-to-go-thermonuclear dept.

Android 190

puddingebola sends word of a German court decision yesterday which found that Google's Motorola Mobility must recall all of its Android tablets and phones that infringe on Apple's patent for "rubber-band" scrolling. From the Guardian: "The dramatic decision, the latest in an escalating war between Apple and the smartphone and set-top box company MMI, follows earlier cases in which Apple had to disable automatic "push" delivery of email to its iPhone and iPads after MMI won a separate patent fight in Germany. The recall will not take effect immediately because Apple will have to request a ban on specific products and provide a €25m (£20m) bond, while MMI can appeal. However, the court indicated that it was unlikely that an appeal against the validity of the patent would succeed. MMI, with Google's backing, is expected to continue the appeal. The court also ruled that MMI owed Apple damages for past infringement."

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190 comments

Stop supporting APPLE!! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336607)

Get a clue people. Apple just wants to corner the market and stop consumers of having choices, that are cheaper than theirs. WAKE UP STUPID PEOPLE!...

Stop buying Apple products...

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336713)

You're right. If that wasn't the goal, they wouldn't have PATENTED THEIR FUCKING IDEAS.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336755)

You can't patent ideas, just inventions.
And I thought the EU had banned software patents. What gives?

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (4, Interesting)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 2 years ago | (#41336987)

Look at the patent is question. It's an idea, not an implementation. I don't imagine Motorola copied Apple's code to implement it. This is the problem with software patents. Even if Motorola's implementation is vastly more efficient ... still 'infringing'.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (1)

reve_etrange (2377702) | about 2 years ago | (#41337113)

And the only real invention any of the implementations rely on is an instruction cycle machine. I wonder, are any of the universal algorithms patented?

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (2)

shine (1502) | about 2 years ago | (#41338277)

I gots me a patent on incrementing a counter by 1, does that count (no pun intended).

Stop making stupid typos. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337121)

"Look at the patent IS question."

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (2, Insightful)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 2 years ago | (#41337233)

Look at the patent is question. It's an idea, not an implementation. I don't imagine Motorola copied Apple's code to implement it. This is the problem with software patents. Even if Motorola's implementation is vastly more efficient ... still 'infringing'.

It's not an "idea". It is a user interface element that gives users intuitable feedback about what is happening, and that user interface element didn't exist before Apple invented it. And I thought by now anyone would know that for patents it doesn't matter whether you copy someone else's implementation, what matters is that your implementation does the same thing.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (3, Interesting)

N0Man74 (1620447) | about 2 years ago | (#41337489)

It is an idea. Patents aren't supposed to cover the result, but rather the implementation or the process of achieving that result. That process should be more specific than "with a smart phone".

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (3, Interesting)

makomk (752139) | about 2 years ago | (#41337763)

Actually, the user interface element in question did exist before Apple "invented" it, it's just that it hadn't been used on touchscreen phones or tablets yet because they didn't actually exist (and neither did the technology required to make them). In fact, all of the iPhone and iPod user interface elements Apple has patents on were originally invented by someone else.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41338057)

It's not an "idea". It is a user interface element that gives users intuitable feedback about what is happening, and that user interface element didn't exist before Apple invented it.

Don't be silly, that prior art is well known.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/15/3244581/samsung-expert-apple-bounce-back-patent-invalid [theverge.com]

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (-1, Flamebait)

alen (225700) | about 2 years ago | (#41336795)

damn and i just ordered an iphone 5 last night for my wife. i wish i would have found out about this boycott earlier

oh yeah, i checked out google play for TV/Movies. not only is the selection pitiful compared to itunes. the prices are higher and actually getting the media into your home or on your device is a lot harder and longer and using idevices and itunes

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336867)

Try Netflix or Amazon Prime.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336869)

How is it "harder"?

You install the Movie application (if it's not already installed)... or... you just visit the Play website with a browser. Then you click play.

How is this any different?

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336913)

Because he can't get it on his apple tv. /s

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (1)

alen (225700) | about 2 years ago | (#41337153)

unlike itunes i can't download a file to keep. i have to keep on downloading from play with my phone which takes long than copying over USB

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337543)

Actually, you can very easily. Any movies that you buy (not rent) on Play can permanently be downloaded to your device. You just click on the little push-pin icon and it will be downloaded and stored. I currently have 4 movies from Google play on my Nexus 7 and Asus Transformer that I can watch anytime, anywhere.

I also have 13 movies available from Flixster/Ultraviolet on my tablets because I started using them first.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337223)

How is it "harder"?

You install the Movie application (if it's not already installed)... or... you just visit the Play website with a browser. Then you click play.

How is this any different?

*sigh* Because Apple didn't approve of it. Duh.

Seesh, what part of your iEducation did YOU fail out of? Insufficient prayer directed towards One Infinite Loop renders your program invalid and unusable. This is basic computer science, people!

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336959)

Seriously? In Google Play to rent a movie, how can tapping a button to download (and play) the movie you just rented be that difficult?

Or has Apple now got a feature that automatically purchases content and plays it before you even think of it?

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337105)

I can plug my $105 android into anything with an hdmi connection. I can put movies on my android I already bought 15+ years ago. I have several choices for purchasing new media. I can use usb, sd or wireless to transfer files. It's fine if you like Apple, but itunes won't do anything for my tv

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (2)

SternisheFan (2529412) | about 2 years ago | (#41338183)

You know what pi**es me off about Apple and their new propietary connectors? Turns out the iphone5 that they sell in Europe comes with a USB adaptor piece, while in other parts of the world people will have to buy all new chargers, cabling, buy new alarm clocks, etc. So apple has always had the ability to have USB connection to transmit data, they're just taking Apple users for a money grab ride. That's why their devices have no SDminicard capability, you're forced to buy their overpriced, prone to breakage, connector cables. Why won't Apple offer that USB connector in the U.S.? Because their customers are 'trained' and resigned to having to buy Apple chargers over and over again? May be...

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (1)

larry bagina (561269) | about 2 years ago | (#41338359)

EU law requires phones to be chargeable via microUSB. US law does not. Are you also pissed off that Apple charges more in the EU than they do in the US?

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336829)

This isn't an Apple problem, this is a patent problem.

Google and Motorolla would enforce this patent on Apple if they happened to own it. They already enforced another equally trivial patent on push email, so that Apple devices can't use it in Germany.

These sorts of concepts are NOT novel and unique and should NOT be patented.

To use a car analogy, It's like going back in time 100 years and patenting "wheels made of rubber" and "automobiles that exhaust fumes to the air" and "the use of heating elements to warm a car interior" etc etc etc.

Not practical and counter to innovation.

Sad sad sad.

George Selden (4, Informative)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41337255)

To use a car analogy, It's like going back in time 100 years and patenting [...] "automobiles that exhaust fumes to the air"

Except George Selden [wikipedia.org] patented exactly that.

Re:George Selden (1)

Orga (1720130) | about 2 years ago | (#41337469)

TIL some of the earliest automobiles were electric

The Electric Vehicle Company was founded as a holding company of battery-powered electric automobile manufacturers made up of several car companies assembled by Isaac L. Rice beginning in 1897. It was taken over in 1899 by William C. Whitney and P. A. B. Widener's, thus forming the so-called "Lead Cab Trust," which hoped to develop a monopoly by placing electric cabs on the streets of major American cities.
The firm actually made and sold about two thousand electric cars (based on the Electrobat and Riker Electric cabs) as taxis to several American cities, but fell into hard times in 1900 after facing competition from gas-powered cars and legal problems stemming from monopolistic practices, as well as scandal surrounding the poor performance of its vehicles.

Oh how far we've come.

Re:George Selden (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41338361)

The Wright brothers also patented everything they could involving aircraft, including ideas first implemented by Chanute & Lilienthal. As a result, American aviation withered for a quarter of a century until the Wrights were forced to place their patents into a common pool.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337959)

This is an Apple problem. They are terrified of consumers having a choice, and they are systematically using trivial enhancements to existing idea as ammunition to block alternative products.

They could quite easily stock pile their silly little patents and use them as an arsenal against patent trolls that come after them. They don't have to remove other companies' products from markets.

It really is foolish. There might be some short term gains, but the customer will change their minds down the road, it's already happening. Sony are nothing like they used to be thanks to their attitude. Apple are accelerating down the same path.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (5, Informative)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 2 years ago | (#41337963)

Google and Motorolla would enforce this patent on Apple if they happened to own it. They already enforced another equally trivial patent on push email, so that Apple devices can't use it in Germany.

Except that Google and Motorola have only started to enforce their patents against Apple after Apple started to sue every Android manufacturer in sight.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (-1, Flamebait)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about 2 years ago | (#41336897)

It's for the best. Android phones are full of malware. So this will make germany a little safer.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337083)

And who do you expect me to support, the Motorola idiots or the Google creeps?

--

I'm a professional professional asshole [mailto] !

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (2)

lunatic1969 (1010175) | about 2 years ago | (#41337357)

The problem is, this is a game everybody is playing and we can't seem to make it stop. The only hope as I see it is to encourage these lawsuits. Sue everyone, sue frequently. Let the corporations bleed tons and tons of money. When the corporations decide it's a bad idea because they've gone broke, things will change -- they won't change until then.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (1)

davester666 (731373) | about 2 years ago | (#41338031)

Except this 'game' is one we [the people] EXPLICITLY created, to aid in the creation of new products. It is used every day by big companies and individuals to create products that otherwise may not exist, and sometimes it even protects the little guy from being wiped out by the big guy.

Without patents, lots of technology would instead be covered by trade secret instead, and corporate espionage would be all the rage [well, more than it is now].

If there were no design patents, lots of industries would be wrecked, from clothing to furniture to watches and jewelry, cars. It's just that all those industries have been around for a long time and have gone through the lawsuits and figured out roughly what's OK and what's not [hell, there was just a lawsuit over red high-heel shoes, won by the defendant because the whole shoe was a particular shade of red including the sole, and not just the upper part (I think that's how it went)].

This really is just the case where one company rewrote the rule book for an industry by making a product that looked and worked completely differently from what all the other major companies were making, made a shitload of money because it was a better product, and now everybody else has jumped onto the gravy train. Some jumped too close to Apple, and like EVERY OTHER GLOBAL INDUSTRY [fashion, automobiles, accessories, furniture, lots of others] lawsuits ensued.

It's like bizarroland now, that what Apple created is somehow obvious, yet smartphones looked and worked MUCH differently before the iPhone was released. Apple still has to pay patent fee's to others, or not do various things that others have patented, but Apple's stuff, covering the same level of details that everybody else in the industry has patented before [eg, RIM has design and utility patents on their keyboards, you can't copy them without paying], but it looks and works so great, everybody should be able to use them without reservation.

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (1)

JackieBrown (987087) | about 2 years ago | (#41338055)

Will the price of Samsung Tablets drop due to the extra inventory?

Re:Stop supporting APPLE!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41338473)

I support Apple. At least they actually try to make decent products instead of tracking everything I do, even when I opt out.

Get a clue STUPID FANBOY!!!!!

Sense? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336613)

So they are forced to recall their devices because of a GUI animation effect? How the hell is that proportionate? Was that a major advertised feature or something?

Re:Sense? (2)

edxwelch (600979) | about 2 years ago | (#41336857)

A company holding the patent for button pressed / unpressed animation could theoretically prevent all software in existance from being sold.

Re:Sense? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337027)

I write all my software with libcurses you insensitive clod.

Re:Sense? (0)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#41337011)

The judge probably has no clue the "stolen" feature copied from Apple can be disabled with a software update. Or maybe he does understand but wants to use the recall as a form of punishment. ASIDE: Ever read the Wright Brothers' history on wikipedia? They experienced this same nonsense where people stole their patented ideas on the airplane, and they had to waste time suing the infringing companies. Patent trolling/theft/lawsuits have been going-on for a long time.

Re:Sense? (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | about 2 years ago | (#41337091)

Are you implying the wright brothers, who came up with a working airplane design after others had been trying for HUNDREDS of years, were patent trolling?!?

Re:Sense? (1)

toriver (11308) | about 2 years ago | (#41337789)

They built on the work of others and made it fly longer than the others did. But they built something innovative and patented that so they were not patent trolling.

Re:Sense? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41338415)

The end result is that they very nearly destroyed a fledgling industry in their attempt to create a monopoly.

Look at the Wright aircraft after ~1909 - they STOPPED evolving, and by the time WWI started they were hopelessly outclassed. The same will happen to Apple - patents ENCOURAGE people to milk the same work for years.

Re:Sense? (1)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 2 years ago | (#41337157)

The judge probably has no clue the "stolen" feature copied from Apple can be disabled with a software update.

The judge may or may not know that, but it doesn't matter. The point is that the feature _is not_ disabled. Motorola is free to change their phones.

Re:Sense? (2)

EdIII (1114411) | about 2 years ago | (#41337485)

How the hell does a recall even work? Does the customer get compensated? Is it just the government stealing property from the citizens?

I understand a recall in the auto industry, but that seems to be voluntary on the part of the consumer. If this is voluntary then it is hilarious. Does the judge think people will just give up their property without a fight and go purchase Apple products?

Re:Sense? (1)

erroneus (253617) | about 2 years ago | (#41337695)

A "recall" can come in many forms. When there is a recall on a "defective product" it is not always "users must return this to the manufacturer." In fact, it almost never means that. It usually means "users are advised to bring this thing in for a fix or update." And this is usually voluntary on the part of the users and a requirement of support by the vendor.

A recall is probably the most appropriate remedy. A bad on a product is probably the least appropriate remedy since we're talking about software where features can be changed or removed with an update.

Re:Sense? (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 2 years ago | (#41337611)

So they are forced to recall their devices because of a GUI animation effect? How the hell is that proportionate?

Proportionate isn't generally relevant in patent cases.

Theft? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336641)

Taking the phones and tablets out of people's hands. That's one way to kill the competition, also any good will towards your company too.

Crawl back under your bridge, Apple!

Re:Theft? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337039)

That is the beauty of it, friend AC. The Apple has transcended the need for good will. They are The Apple. They have become the Alpha and the Omega. There is no longer any dark before time, or any scary after time. There is only The Apple. All what remains is the extermination of all heretical followers of the Green Beast, and then the Rounded-Corner Age of iGlory may begin.

Give yourself to The Apple. The Apple is your friend and mine.

Re:Theft? (1)

An ominous Cow art (320322) | about 2 years ago | (#41338255)

Resistance is futile. You will be Appsimilated.

my order. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336649)

i would order a new penis because mine is too small to find in the dark when i want to wack off to the hot chicks in world of warcraft when i am playing at night after dinner and after my parents go to bed.

i would prolly request the size of an african american's johnson, which i have heard is around 14inches, aka, the size of a premature baby. this would allow me to carry out my wacking off at night after dinner. however, i would probably want small testicles since I do not want to clean up a huge load.

so, put me down for a beef log and raisins.

What if customers just kept their Samsung phones? (1, Interesting)

denis-The-menace (471988) | about 2 years ago | (#41336651)

Would they send cops after them like they do for stolen stuff?

Re:What if customers just kept their Samsung phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336697)

I'm pretty sure this means they have to recall the phones from stores and other sales channels, not customers who have already purchased one...

Re:What if customers just kept their Samsung phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336747)

Owning one would not be a crime.

Re:What if customers just kept their Samsung phone (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336859)

It's a little known fact about patent law that merely using a patent infringing device is itself patent infringement.

However, this is a civil matter so the police wouldn't be involved. Apple could sue you personally (and win) for using an Android tablet but the negligible damages and appalling publicity mean it's really not worth their while.

Re:What if customers just kept their Samsung phone (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about 2 years ago | (#41336915)

They'll send soldiers around at night to bust into your home and take it.

Re:What if customers just kept their Samsung phone (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 2 years ago | (#41336945)

Well, Apple did do that in the US, so it's not out of the question.

Re:What if customers just kept their Samsung phone (1)

PPH (736903) | about 2 years ago | (#41337173)

They'll send militia wearing brown shirts.

Just a sec. I think I hear Mr. Godwin knocking on my door.

Re:What if customers just kept their Samsung phone (1)

Cajun Hell (725246) | about 2 years ago | (#41337101)

Nobody is going to bother to try to track down the users. Technically, though, those users really would be violating the patent every time they scroll, and there's no other party to indemnify them. Theoretically, should one of them ever anger a Power, the power could point them out to Apple and get sued.

I honestly believe Apple would not follow through, though: the PR hit would be too damaging. Even Apple's evil has practical limits. Threatening users is for companies that have no other business plan (e.g. SCO), and Apple makes serious money in legitimate (if distasteful) sales.

Re:What if customers just kept their Samsung phone (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about 2 years ago | (#41337289)

Nobody is going to bother to try to track down the users. Technically, though, those users really would be violating the patent every time they scroll, and there's no other party to indemnify them.

I don't believe that is true. You can violate a patent by making an infringing product, but can you really violate a patent by using a device someone else made and which you bought?

It just seems completely irrational the end-user could be violating a patent they know nothing about and had nothing at all to do with violating.

Just like if someone violated Amazon's one-click patent nobody would start suing the customers of whoever violated it.

But, it's patent law ... for all I know someone could construct an argument that says the individual users infringed on the patent.

Me, I wouldn't give a second thought about it as it affects an end user -- "your honor, why should I know or care about such things? I bought this at Wal Mart. It's not my problem if they have a legal dispute between themselves."

Re:What if customers just kept their Samsung phone (1)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 2 years ago | (#41338369)

I don't believe that is true. You can violate a patent by making an infringing product, but can you really violate a patent by using a device someone else made and which you bought?

If you couldn't, then you could get around any patent by setting up a company that creates the infringing product, sells it to you, and goes bankrupt. But as an end user, you may not actually be infringing. For example, a customer wouldn't be infringing on Amazon's one-click patent.

Re:What if customers just kept their Samsung phone (1)

moronoxyd (1000371) | about 2 years ago | (#41337557)

re: subject

This isn't about Samsung.

thamls (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336703)

okay thank you for this subject test http://nws.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/nwsexit.pl?url=http://www.scorpbeats.com&cache=yes

One more step towards the end of Fuckle Assdroid!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336725)

Fuckle and their faithful corporate lapdogs blatantly copied Apple's iOS as well as every feature and design element of every iOS device. Here's to every government taking the profitability away from every corporation that has leached from Apple's success.

Obligatory (1)

XaN-ASMoDi (894073) | about 2 years ago | (#41336753)

All your phones are belong to us!

Let me be the first to say (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336771)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpc5_3B5xdk (non-rickrolling, promise. But not far behind...)

Apple is a cunt (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336789)

Anyone who buys their products is a cunt. Don't be a cunt.

Fuckle is a cunt (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337285)

Anyone who buys any product with Fuckle Assdroid is a cunt. Don't be a cunt.

Sounds easy to fix (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336837)

They just have to remove that rubber-band scrolling with a firmware update.

Bounce is obvious to any engineer (5, Interesting)

Solandri (704621) | about 2 years ago | (#41336841)

Any engineer worth his salt was taught about the time response of second order linear systems [wikipedia.org] - spring, mass, damper. The scroll bounce is just the transient response of such a system to a step function when tuned to be slightly underdamped [wikipedia.org] (light blue line in the figure).

It's obvious as hell and the only reason I can fathom why it's being upheld is because its merits are being judged by people who are clueless about math or engineering. This is as bad as the XOR cursor patent [google.com] , which was also a patent on the graphical representation of a function widely known and commonly used in the respective industry.

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (4, Insightful)

mclaincausey (777353) | about 2 years ago | (#41337103)

I am not an IP advocate, but I'm not sure that logic applies. Just because something is obvious in the physical domain, applying it to a control on a device isn't also obvious necessarily... it's not a skeumorphism for a spring or something, for example, which might make this connection less tenuous. Not defending the IP or IP-based attack, just don't necessarily trust your rationale for saying it's an obvious invention.

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337803)

I was taught to model UI interactions after physical interactions to make them more intuitive to the user...

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (2)

Threni (635302) | about 2 years ago | (#41338157)

> Just because something is obvious in the physical domain, applying it to a control on a device isn't also
> obvious necessarily

Sure it is. You just go `i'll do a code version of that`. You see slide-to-unlock on a front door - you do a code version of it. What's not obvious about it? Even if you argue that the first instance of something from the real world being copied on a computer is original and not obvious, the second you see it you should go `ah, yes, I can model other computer visual phenomena on physica, real-word events/objects`.

I wouldn't mind if patents lasted one year, or the fine for breaching them for £50 or something. You can't pull a companies products from market from something obvious and simple. It's just wrong.

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337179)

It's obvious as hell and the only reason I can fathom why it's being upheld is because its merits are being judged by people who are clueless about math or engineering.

I'm not defending Apple's actions, but user interfaces had scrolling for over 25 years before Apple added the rubber band effect. If it "was obvious as hell", one would have expected somebody else to have long since added it to their own products. This is where prior art is all about, and while it would be great if someone could legitimately claim to have predated Apple's use of the technique, for the nonce it's likely that Apple is correct in claiming that they invented the feature (regardless of the ethical merits of the patent) .

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (1)

zzsmirkzz (974536) | about 2 years ago | (#41337809)

This is where prior art is all about, and while it would be great if someone could legitimately claim to have predated Apple's use of the technique, for the nonce it's likely that Apple is correct in claiming that they invented the feature (regardless of the ethical merits of the patent) .

The point is "obvious to one skilled in the art" so that the "invention" is novel. Being able to code a scroll-page so that it bounces after you hit the bottom is pretty obvious to any programmer which "should" deny this "invention" any patent protection whatsoever. Ideas are not patentable, inventions are and this is not an invention. Being the first to think of the concept or idea does not make the concept or idea novel. It only does so if the implementation itself would be non-obvious to anyone skilled in the art which it is not.

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (1)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 2 years ago | (#41338245)

Coding it is not the problem. Figuring out that you _want_ the page to bounce that way, without anyone showing it to you, that is the invention.

And I think you are thinking about the wrong invention. The invention is not an implementation of "bouncing after you hit the bottom". The invention is an implementation of "giving the user some very intuitive and obvious feedback after they hit the bottom, so they know what's going on". You are free to create your own implementation of "giving the user some very intuitive and obvious feedback after they hit the bottom, so they know what's going on".

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41338065)

"Nobody used it before" is not grounds for patent. "Being novel and non-obvious" is.

Elastic bounce was in all UI animation libraries since ever, idea of overscroll isn't new as well. So, which part of this is novel and non-obvious except for "on touchscreen device"?

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337845)

No need for engineering degrees, that was in all animation effects scripting libraries for ages as "elastic bounce easing".

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (1)

toriver (11308) | about 2 years ago | (#41337871)

It's obvious as hell

Thirty years of UI interface design where the obvious thing was to stop abruptly when you came to the beginning/end say: WHAT?

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (2)

lexman098 (1983842) | about 2 years ago | (#41338027)

Those were not touch screens though where the idea tends to be that you're physically manipulating simulated objects with your finger. This "obviously" leads to more simulation of basic physics principles.

Think of it another way: Motorola might have to recall their phones because their shit goes "bounce" when it scrolls. It's intuitively ludicrous without any logical deduction.

Re:Bounce is obvious to any engineer (1)

Solandri (704621) | about 2 years ago | (#41338187)

Thirty years of UI interface design where the obvious thing was to stop abruptly when you came to the beginning/end say: WHAT?

Try 25 years of UI interface design when computers didn't have power to spare to do anything more profligate than stop abruptly when you got to the end of a scroll. Smooth scrolling is relatively new too. Do you think it's worthy of a patent just because nobody had the spare CPU cycles to do it before?

A recall? (1)

mark-t (151149) | about 2 years ago | (#41336845)

Would that not mean that cell phone providers would be obligated to discontinue carrier service to customers who had purchased one through them?

Software patents in Germany? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41336901)

I'm curious how this came to be. I thought Germany had no software patents?

Re:Software patents in Germany? (1)

reve_etrange (2377702) | about 2 years ago | (#41337235)

I think Germany still has its own patent system. There are no software patents in the EU system, but there are in Germany. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:Software patents in Germany? (0)

moronoxyd (1000371) | about 2 years ago | (#41337619)

Your wrong.

Re:Software patents in Germany? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337969)

Your wrong.

He asked to be corrected if wrong, aka give the right answer. I would love to hear any input on that from you

Too much (5, Funny)

hawguy (1600213) | about 2 years ago | (#41337009)

Geeze, first I thought I had to buy Samsung products to support them in their fight against Apple, now I have to buy MMI products too? I'm going to go broke trying to support companies that anger Apple. Maybe it's cheaper and easier to just go to the dark side and buy an iPhone and move into the Apple Ecosystem.

Re:Too much (1)

the_B0fh (208483) | about 2 years ago | (#41337331)

I wish I have mod points :) Funniest comment in this thread.

Re:Too much (2)

toriver (11308) | about 2 years ago | (#41337903)

You can justify it by saying you are buying an iPhone to support Apple in their fight against Motorola?

It couldn't have happened to a "nicer" company (1, Troll)

Miamicanes (730264) | about 2 years ago | (#41337053)

I shouldn't take so much pleasure from Moto's misfortune, but fuck it. Motorola are evil bastards, and they deserve to burn for their crimes against Android and humanity. A company that burns with such pure evil, Google's had to send in the entire Vatican several times to try and exorcise the company's senior management... and had to guarantee the Pope himself tickets to Google IO for the next 5 years to get them to come back after the casualties they suffered during last month's attempt.

I'd be *thrilled* if there were a recall of my old Photon. It's been dead to me since Motorola cruelly locked its bootloader back in May, and I'd love to get a forced refund to buy some nice, new toys for my new, open, non-bootloader-locked Galaxy S3.

And if Apple tried to force the recall of my reflashed S3, they'd have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.

No more IPJ! (1)

h8sg8s (559966) | about 2 years ago | (#41337099)

Apple's looking much less interesting to me since their IPJ (Intellectual Property Jihad) began. Honestly, even the fanboi hordes are starting to wonder what Apple is afraid of. Cross-license and move on..

Firefox? (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | about 2 years ago | (#41337115)

The recent version of firefox has this on by default. Should every Firefox user be forced to return their computer now?

Flash the phones on first boot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337131)

Maybe if this bullshit continues, the cell phone carriers will eventually decide to make the first boot of the phones out of the box a barebones linux distro like busybox. Configure it to do nothing on first boot but download an OTA update that installs their flavor of Android. This separates device sales from software sales and allows them to claim they aren't profiting from the infringement.

IP is clearly killing healthy gadget evolution (5, Insightful)

klek (1237566) | about 2 years ago | (#41337207)

All these microscopic patents on tiny "innovations" are preventing the positive evolution of excellent devices. Our devices should be getting better (easier to use, more capable, etc) by using the earlier innovations that truly work better. Yet these copyright battles force companies to create clunky workarounds... Windows GUI is a great example. Why can't we find a way to credit the creator, and still make the best and widespread use of the innovation? Gaah!

Patent Reform (1)

CanEHdian (1098955) | about 2 years ago | (#41337269)

While we're at reforming copyright and related rights, might as well reform patents, especially software patents, registered designs, and any other kind of IPR-related name-it-and-there-is-some-right-for-it as well. Consumers are the ones losing out here, lawyersharks and the "pilot fish" around them for the smaller scraps the only winners.

Fuck it all (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337303)

I doubt I can take much more of all this bullshit. who want s to invent anything anymore?

Bounce didn't work so well on the iPhone 4*... (1)

theswimmingbird (1746180) | about 2 years ago | (#41337417)

since it's made out of glass and all.

This is stupid, Apple is damaging itself for real. (1)

goruka (1721094) | about 2 years ago | (#41337513)

Software patents suck, but even if the patent system can't be changed and even if their patents are found valid, the patents Apple is using to litigate are extremely easy to work around or have already been worked around in the latest versions of stock Android. Then what will they do?
So, in the end, Apple is spending a lot of money in lawyers, in counter-lawsuits and damaging it's own image and brand (even if only in vocal minorities) trying to fight a situation that will obviously be impossible to revert (Android overtaking the market and becoming the leader in innovation), and Google is coming out as the clear winner because of all the free press where it appears as a victim.
I'm pretty sure that Apple has realized this and is trying to negotiate behind the scenes, but for companies like Samsung or Google it will end up being cheaper to pay Apple whathever the courts say than negotiating an agreement where they give Apple access to patents or pay them fees for them.

Won't next Android revision remove this feature? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41337517)

I sounds pretty trivial, something we could all do without and barely even know the difference!

Even if Apple removed every competitor... (2)

blind biker (1066130) | about 2 years ago | (#41338033)

Even if Apple removed every competitor from the market, I'm not buying any of their products. I don't want to turn into a moron. [youtube.com]

Rotten Apple (1)

oleop (974651) | about 2 years ago | (#41338111)

Become a poisonous drug. Need to add cobra or rattlesnake to their logo.

Fantastic news! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41338433)

The only thing more I could have hoped for would have been for the judge to also order those fucking IP THEIVES at Craporola to give a brand new iPhone 5 to each and every one of their customers.

Regardless though, the vast majority of the people who are now being fucked over by Craporola will no doubt chose an Apple product to replace their broken by design lamedroid phone, so here's a huge THANKS to the judge for doing the right thing.

Think different.
Think BETTER.
Think Apple!

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