Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Raspberry Pi For the Rest of Us

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the bootstraps-for-all! dept.

Programming 170

mikejuk writes "The Raspberry Pi might be a cheap and reasonably powerful but it has a tough learning curve due to the Linux OS it uses. Adafruit, better known for their hardware, are working on a WebIDE which you can use to program the Pi without having to set things up. You write the code in a browser and run it on the Pi using a web server hosted by the Pi. It sounds crazy but if it can make the Pi more approachable then perhaps it could turn out to be an educational powerhouse."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Be nice when they deliver it. (0)

Dark$ide (732508) | more than 2 years ago | (#41404911)

I've only been waiting TWELVE weeks for the delivery of my Pi.

I'm not pissed off, of course.

Perhaps when they get round to delivering it, I'll be able to try some of this stuff.

Re:Be nice when they deliver it. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41404979)

If your order is through RS, cancel it immediately and order through Farnell. Farnell actually has their act together.

Re:Be nice when they deliver it. (4, Informative)

neurojab (15737) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405375)

+1 to the parent.

RS does not have any Raspberry Pis... Newark/Farnell/Element14 have them. I cancelled my RS order and got it in 4 days from Newwark. Newark is showing 100 in stock right now.

Re:Be nice when they deliver it. (2)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405455)

I concur. I got mine from Newark in 2 days and I'm in Canada. This was just a couple of weeks ago.

Shipping to Canada is $12 including duty and brokerage, so make sure you call them to place the order vs. going online. It's $24 to ship if you use the online method.

Re:Be nice when they deliver it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405097)

I got my Pi back in July through RS...

Re:Be nice when they deliver it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405137)

Ordered mine from element14/newark on thursday, had it booting on monday.

Re:Be nice when they deliver it. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405411)

The really great thing about them is that 20% don't work when you do get them...

Raspberry tincture (3, Funny)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405723)

I've only been waiting TWELVE weeks for the delivery of my Pi.

That's about right: take 1kg raspberries, 0.5kg sugar, 0.5l 95% alcohol, put into a jar. Four months later, filter out the fruit (give it to your mom/wife/grandma for a cake, or whatever). Let the liquid sit for eight more weeks. Filter again, pour into bottles. Ready to drink.

This one is so much simpler than my family's usual tincture recipe that takes multiple steppings and eight months, and for raspberrries, gives good results.

Re:Raspberry tincture (1)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406773)

Er, s/four months/four weeks/, sorry for breaking the joke.

Re:Be nice when they deliver it. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405827)

Just shut up. You're not going to do jack shit with it. Go back to sucking dicks.

Re:Be nice when they deliver it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405899)

I just ordered one from MCMElectronics.com earlier this week; got a tracking number the next day and it's set for delivery on Tuesday.

Cancel your order and go elsewhere.

Evil learning (5, Insightful)

fisted (2295862) | more than 2 years ago | (#41404913)

Oh no, a steep learning curve on a device which is intended to encourage learning. Seriously.

Re:Evil learning (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405005)

If I'm going to teach my nephews python, I don't necessarily need them to learn all the intricacies of building and the device today. It's just an affordable platform.

I welcome this project, and fart in your general direction.

Re:Evil learning (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405101)

Well and, more specifically, "steep learning curve" != effective learning.

Most learning is done in order from simple to complex. What you're learning will always be a challenge, but sometimes unrelated barriers aren't helpful.

Re:Evil learning (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405163)

You don't know what you're talking about. If your nephew has any PC built in the last 5 years to use as a client to this thing then they can run a Linux VM on it and use any number of open source tools to achieve the same thing. You don't need a Pi if you're in the west and are going to be just teaching yourself to code. If you're an engineering student and are looking at doing something cool with the USB interface *maybe* just *maybe* thats ok but you can do that with your desktop/laptop already with VM. I assure you that installing a basic Ubuntu OS on a VM is *far* easier and cheaper than purchasing a Pi. Heck - run any modern Python IDE on windows - you get a fully integrated debugger and python console. Pisses all over your fsckin' web interface. Use the Pi for teaching electronics and systems in engineering classes, for hobbyists to connect home automation and robotics, for third world/developing nations that can't afford full PCs - but its not a glorified IDE just cause you can.

I agree with the previous post - WTF is wrong with learning?

Unicycles and juggling.. thats all you modern hipster developers want..

Re:Evil learning (2)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405715)

You don't need a Pi if you're in the west and are going to be just teaching yourself to code.

I mostly agree with you, but I bet there are kids in the West who aren't allowed to screw around with Mum and Dad's PC, and the family can't afford a PC for them to mess around with.

OK, maybe $25 would buy a used Pentium. But I'd rather have a Raspberry Pi just because it's easy to carry around and I can buy storage in supermarkets.

Re:Evil learning (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406761)

But I'd rather have a Raspberry Pi just because it's easy to carry around and I can buy storage in supermarkets.

announcing the TUPPERpi. it seals in freshness!

Re:Evil learning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41406603)

Right, because they'll have a lot of fun lighting up LED's with the GPIO's on that VM. And yes, opening a browser and clicking a bookmark is much easier than operating a VM, navigating by CLI, writing their code in [editor of choice] and running it manually. None of that is necessary to get a kid interested in programming.

I've been teaching people to program for years. Don't assume you know what everyone else is trying to do, as you're obviously not a teacher.

Re:Evil learning (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406619)

Unlike myself, young folks these days aren't pinned by the constraints of a limited system. Something like the Pi is like throwing a 386 at them and telling them to do something useful with it. It is possible, and it runs a much more capable OS than the DOS I had to deal with

Re:Evil learning (0)

jhol13 (1087781) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406649)

"to connect home automation"

Is the PI reliable enough? Unless you mean data collection only, any device connected to home automation, e.g. keeping up the home above zero when you go to vacation on winter must be extremely reliable. I do not think PI is anywhere near, not the HW and not the SW.

Re:Evil learning (2)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405185)

You clearly have a PC with a browser they can use. Why not give them a Python interpreter on there?

If you're worried about them breaking the PC, give them a VM.

Re:Evil learning (4, Funny)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405653)

If I'm going to teach my nephews python

Damn you! Just one misplaced apostrophe and I could have had an amusing joke about how snakes- and python's in particular- are incapable of learning anything more complicated than Javascript.

But nooooo..... you had to be gramatically correct. Spoilsport! Where's an illiterate when you need one?! :'-(

Re:Evil learning (4, Funny)

kat_skan (5219) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406395)

Where's an illiterate when you need one?!

Fret not! I found one for you:

python's in particular

Re:Evil learning (1)

Lennie (16154) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405655)

And learning Python is also something you in a browser:
http://www.pythontutor.com/ [pythontutor.com]

Re:Evil learning (1)

kiddygrinder (605598) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405069)

steep learning curves discourage learning

Re:Evil learning (1)

fisted (2295862) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405203)

That's mostly true for those who would quickly abandon the whole thing anyway. To me, a steep learning curve rarely played a role when i was truly interested in something. Best example is vim, i guess.

Re:Evil learning (1)

rk (6314) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405311)

I never really thought of vim's learning curve to be steep. A long curve, to be sure, but never steep.

Re:Evil learning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405775)

it's steep. you aren't thinking about it correctly.

Re:Evil learning (2)

ubrgeek (679399) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406401)

And apparently when my dad was my age and learning it it was a long steep curve, uphill, both ways, in the snow.

Re:Evil learning (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#41407071)

And apparently when my dad was my age and learning it it was a long steep curve, uphill, both ways, in the snow.

I concur... supplementary, the wind was always blowing in your face.

Re:Evil learning (1)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406135)

Kids are more likely to quickly abandon things with steep learning curves.

Re:Evil learning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405109)

You start slow, then step it up.

Think of it like this: You won't run a marathon the first time you step out of your mom's basement, will you? Probably not.

BUT, what about two years from now when you have shaved your neckbeard? Well, maybe, but probably not, still.

Re:Evil learning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405213)

Well, no. It reminds me of what Eric Redmond said in his magnum opus The Cathedral and the Bizarre:

Linux is only free if your time has no value

Truer words have never been spoken. Linux developers must simply make Linux...more simple.

Re:Evil learning (2)

zaft (597194) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405373)

The Cathedral and the Bizarre? Was that the sequel to ESR's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar"?

Re:Evil learning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405397)

Well, no. It reminds me of what Eric Redmond said in his magnum opus The Cathedral and the Bizarre:

That's what we call IIIIIIRONYYYYY.

Re:Evil learning (1)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405475)

Linux was a very different beast when Raymond wrote that.

Linux now is no more difficult than Windows. If you know Windows already, of course the differences are problematic. The same thing applies the other way (on Windows I always try a bunch of ERASE, DELETE, DEL commands until eventually hitting the right one).

The *one* thing that has always been tricky with Linux, is repartitioning a Windows machine and setting up dual boot. This is seldom necessary any more. Most Linux boxes don't dual boot. A Raspberry Pi certainly wouldn't. If Windows is your primary OS and you want to use Linux, VirtualBox is a better solution than dual-booting today.

Re:Evil learning (2)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405689)

The *one* thing that has always been tricky with Linux, is repartitioning a Windows machine and setting up dual boot.

It's a lot easier to do this with Linux based tools than it is with Windows based tools.

With Linux: Step 1, boot a gparted live CD and shrink your NTFS partition and create an ext3 partition. Step 2, Install Linux.

With Windows: Step 1, try to find a Windows equivalent to Gparted. Difficulty, Partition Magic is discontinued. Step 2, Install Windows. Step 3, boot a live Linux CD and reinstall grub because Windows overwrote your boot manager.

Re:Evil learning (2)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406559)

Runas administrator CMD.exe
Diskpart
Select disk 0
Select partition 1
Shrink desired=%AmountToShrink
Quit
Exit

Tada. Now you have %AmountToShrink disk space at the end of the drive you can invest an ext filesystem with.

(Note, you should select the partition you want to shrink. You can list the partitions for selection with LIST PARTITION.)

You may need to start from the recovery partition or install disk to futz with the system volume, as it probably has files open, and is mounted.

Re:Evil learning (1)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406205)

If Windows is your primary OS and you want to use Linux, VirtualBox is a better solution than dual-booting today.

Unless your reason for running Linux is to do processing and not just run some arbitrary piece of Linux-only software. Then you want to run as close to bare metal as possible.

Re:Evil learning (2)

Twinbee (767046) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405451)

The difference is learning idiosyncrasies and pretty arbitrary knowledge due to the kludges and historical baggage of Linux (not saying any other OS is much better). An OS should mostly be transparent to the user, enabling him/her to get on with actually being productive.

Linux won't be around forever (at least not close to its current state), but math and science will.

Re:Evil learning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405613)

Due to... Linux? Oh slashdot no wonder i rarely come here anymore...

Re:Evil learning (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405771)

Putting everything behind a GUI doesn't so much flatten the learning curve as make it irrelevant, because you don't have to know as much about how the system works. Which makes the idea even dumber than you suggest.

I'm reminded of the character on the Simpsons who thought that 5+2=LO BAT

Re:Evil learning (1)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405971)

I disagree. If you want to start learning a high level language, you shouldn't need to learn a bunch of other stuff first. If you want to learn that stuff, then fine. But you shouldn't need to.

If you can boot a machine and get a text editor into which you can type Python, and a simple way to execute it, that's great for learning Python.

If you wanted to learn to paint, would you insist on knowing how to manufacture oil paint, and stretch canvas? Would you refuse to learn to play a guitar you hadn't built yourself?

Re:Evil learning (2)

fm6 (162816) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406059)

If you want to start learning a high level language, you shouldn't need to learn a bunch of other stuff first.

Absolutely true. Which is why the Pi is a bad choice for somebody whose first goal is to learn a HLL.

Cool, or (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41404945)

Just try to see if web2py works well, it's similar.

Two words that never go together (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41404985)

Educational
Powerhouse

Sort of like these two

Intelligent
Republican

Set things up? (4, Interesting)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#41404987)

Isn't the point of the Pi that you can just dump an image onto an SD card and have a fully working environment? Just how bad are the Pi distros?

Re:Set things up? (5, Informative)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405073)

They aren't. The Debian install boots directly into LXDE. The "tough" learning curve is illusory and can easily be overcome in the environment the Pi is used in without suddenly needing two computers rather than one.

Re:Set things up? (1)

rasmusbr (2186518) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405621)

Another to thing to keep in mind is that the learning curve is not only a function of the inherent difficulty and amount of work involved in getting started but also a function of the difficulty in finding good tutorials and finding people who can answer specific questions. If everyone who's learning to program on Raspberry Pi is using the same stuff (Debian, LXDE, Python for example) and the same beginner's tutorial then you'll 1) get lots of feedback to the tutorial maintainers on the tutorial and 2) get users who can help one another because they're all up against the same problems and challenges.

When it comes to getting started with stuff, unity is good and fragmentation is bad. The standard free software way of doing things where there are N different distros with P different environments and Q different languages is perhaps nice for experienced people who have developed a taste, but it's certainly not ideal for beginners.

I think the number one thing that the Raspberry pi has going for it besides the low price is that there's only one (or two) hardware versions being made at any one time. I hope they'll be able to get the vast majority of beginners onto the same distro, environment and language / script language.

Re:Set things up? (3)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405121)

And why would a distro with this Web app installed be easier to set up than a distro that boots into a GUI?

And if you have something that can run a browser, why do you want to run your code on a RPi?

It's all really odd.

Re:Set things up? (2)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405583)

It's all really odd.

The reasons why you might want to use this make no sense whatsoever until you realise that they started with something they wanted to build and then tried to think of reasons why people might want it afterwards. It's a solution in search of a problem. They couldn't find any problems it's suited for, so they've resorted to gobbledegook for marketing.

Re:Set things up? (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405607)

Are you referring to the Pi or the OS from Adafruit?

Re:Set things up? (1)

jdeisenberg (37914) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406255)

Exactly. Make a distribution that boots directly into Scratch [mit.edu] or [[insert name of your favorite programming language IDE here]].

Usability curve? (1)

lattyware (934246) | more than 2 years ago | (#41404991)

It's just a slightly different graphical environment. I think the latest versions of OSes for it have dropped having to manually do a 'startx', so there is nothing there a child can't learn by doing.

Re:Usability curve? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405437)

If the child doesn't have a certain mindset, there might be things that the child can't learn by doing.

Oxymoron (2, Informative)

GigaBurglar (2465952) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405089)

If you're not prepared to learn Linux then your should be prepared to - give up pursuit of programming embedded/small devices.

Re:Oxymoron (4, Insightful)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405319)

I don't accept that. The point of the Pi is to replicate the "turn it on and start coding" spirit that us 8 bit kids grew up with.

What a BBC Micro had, that a modern PC doesn't is this: you turned it on, and 3 seconds later there was a BASIC prompt. Page 1 of the "learn to program" book tells you to type:

10 PRINT "Hello World"
20 GOTO 10

If you screw up, you turn it off and on again, no harm done.

20 minutes later, an inquisitive 7 year old will have:

10 PRINT "Hello World"
20 c% = RND(8)
30 COLOUR c%
40 PRINT "Slim is Rad!!!!!!"
50 GOTO 10 ... and they build up from there until 11 years later they're doing a CS degree.

There's no "oh, the install is too difficult? Oh bad luck 7-year-old, you've not got it in you."

And that's what the Raspberry Pi is intending to replicate.

(But I don't think this browser thing is the way to do it)

Re:Oxymoron (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405465)

I don't accept that. The point of the Pi is to replicate the "turn it on and start coding" spirit that us 8 bit kids grew up with.

What a BBC Micro had, that a modern PC doesn't is this: you turned it on, and 3 seconds later there was a BASIC prompt. Page 1 of the "learn to program" book tells you to type:

10 PRINT "Hello World"
20 GOTO 10

Ok, it won't be 3 seconds, but make an sd image that boots to, say, tclsh.
Done. (okay, okay, so tcl won't teach the youngsters GOTO, but it's considered harmful anyway, so I'm cool with that.)

More sensibly, since youngsters are accustomed to GUI=computer, and the system has more than enough horsepower to run one... boot to lxde (as the current debian image for the pi does) and have an icon there to open a freaking xterm with tclsh? Replace "turn it off and on" with "close and reopen the terminal", and they'll get more-or-less the same type of experience we did.

Hey, if the standard is BASIC, even bourne shell isn't so horrible, but tcl's a much better language, both because it's easier to learn, more general purpose (and yes, pdksh/bash/your-favorite-korn-derivative has more general-purpose programming ability built-in -- but at the cost of being way more complex to learn to learn the entire language), and more likely to be useful in the future.

(But I don't think this browser thing is the way to do it)

Agreed.

Re:Oxymoron (2)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405541)

I think we're agreeing with each other. You don't need to "learn Linux" to program on a RPi: that was my point. Boot, GUI, click an icon to get into your training-wheels IDE.

But tcl? EEEEW!

Scratch for 5 year olds.
Python or Ruby as a next step.

Re:Oxymoron (2)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405513)

Infinite Insightfuls to you, slim.

I've been programming since I was eight (Coco2 and BASIC), I've got an EE degree, I'm "better than most" embedded coders you'll find, and some of the build instructions for Linux are so obtuse that I can't figure out what the fuck is going on.

So let's get the kids in on that. Right.

Re:Oxymoron (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405809)

I don't accept that. The point of the Pi is to replicate the "turn it on and start coding" spirit that us 8 bit kids grew up with.

Huh? Have you seen [raspberrypi.org] the thing? It doesn't even come with a system case. This is not a turnkey system.

Re:Oxymoron (2)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405941)

It doesn't *need* a case. A case would bump it over the price point.Plug it in without a case, and get coding.

In the primary school environment it's intended for (sorry, I don't know what American is for Primary School), an early "OK Kids, today we're going to make a case for our Raspberry Pi out of egg cartons" would be entirely appropriate.

I've got one on order because I need something cheap to run Logitech Media Server. I probably won't bother with a case, or if I do I'll make one out of cardboard.

Re:Oxymoron (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41406539)

A case would bump it over the price point.

Which was entirely arbitrary and can't be achieved due to taxes and shipping.

And which also led to a focus on low-cost versus quality of components.

Re:Oxymoron (3, Interesting)

trickydisco (2735495) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405973)

It's early days yet, but this is what we're trying to develop at http://curiouschip.com/ [curiouschip.com] - a self-contained modern machine that boots straight into a programming environment that promotes exploration and experimentation. We had our first prototype units on show at the Brighton Mini Maker Faire a couple of weeks ago and had an awesome reception; more details will be released in the coming weeks.

Bad assumptions (1)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405093)

This seems like it's based on bad axioms. "a tough learning curve due to the Linux OS"? What OS is easier? Bear in mind that the the Pi distros to be used for education will boot to a GUI.

The focus at the moment seems to be on Scratch - great for kids as young as five.

Re:Bad assumptions (2)

scdeimos (632778) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405313)

I think they meant "familiar" instead of "easy" - heaven forbid anyone should ever have to contend with anything new or different. Like you'd want to spend $150 or more to put Windows on a $25 computer, ffs, even if it had an ARM build that worked.

Re:Bad assumptions (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405705)

If you're paying $150 for Windows you're a chump. Plain and simple.

Re:Bad assumptions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405783)

If you're paying $150 for Windows you're a chump. Plain and simple.

If you're not paying for Windows you're a thief, plain and simple.

Re:Bad assumptions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41406033)

If you're not paying for Winfows you're a the moment a lost sale, but surely after you build your brain wires the windows way, you're a locked in next customer. Plain, simple and sad.

FTFY

Non-Coders Shouldn't Write Code (0)

Wireless Joe (604314) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405105)

"The rest of us" shouldn't be coding. At least according to the article directly before this one. http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/09/20/2015204/why-non-coders-shouldnt-write-code [slashdot.org]

Re:Non-Coders Shouldn't Write Code (1)

ilikenwf (1139495) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405303)

Ha! Beat me to it.

Apparently, non-coders (aka mostly stupid people) shouldn't write code. Though, in truth, learning to code is something that about anyone should be able to do.

*Sniff* *Sniff* (2)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405147)

...

I smell me a slashvertisement...

Rather thinly veiled one, at that.

Expensive hardware to use cheap hardware (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405161)

If you need a more expensive host to run the web browser to develop code for the cheap RP, doesn't that defy the entire point of being a cheap educational tool for underprivileged youth?

This sounds significantly less useful than self-hosted development. It sounds like it's inspired by Linux-phobes who are phobic for no particular reason.

Can't we ask for at least... (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405179)

...a decency of not programming an embedded Linux device from a Windows desktop? Seriously, what is wrong with those people?

Re:Can't we ask for at least... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405381)

...a decency of not programming an embedded Linux device from a Windows desktop? Seriously, what is wrong with those people?

Epic fail: It's not a real embedded device.

Re:Can't we ask for at least... (2)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405483)

Yes, it is -- it has a SoC originally intended to be HDMI video decoder, with various serial and GPIO interfaces exposed, and without expandable CPU bus. Just because it can be connected to a keyboard and a monitor, does not make it any less embedded.

Re:Can't we ask for at least... (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405519)

H.264 video decoder with HDMI output, to be precise.

Re:Can't we ask for at least... (1)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405671)

I couldn't come up with a solid definition of "embedded" myself, so I asked Wikipedia, which said:

"An embedded system is a computer system designed for specific control functions within a larger system, often with real-time computing constraints.[1][2] It is embedded as part of a complete device often including hardware and mechanical parts. By contrast, a general-purpose computer, such as a personal computer (PC), is designed to be flexible and to meet a wide range of end-user needs. "

I think the Raspberry Pi is a general-purpose computer. It's running a full Linux distro. If you want to run OpenOffice on it, you can. If you want to run Quake on it, you can. If you want to call it an embedded system, give me a definition of "embedded" that fits.

Re:Can't we ask for at least... (3, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406791)

embedded as in controller.

you can boot and run the Pi 100% headless, have it boot right into a control program and then start watching 'pins' for changes of sensors, or spinning motors with an h-bridge or servo.

does not need even a 'proper' boot media.

and its small and runs on single voltage.

to me, that meets enough of the practical def for embedded use.

Re:Can't we ask for at least... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41407151)

embedded as in controller.

you can boot and run the Pi 100% headless, have it boot right into a control program and then start watching 'pins' for changes of sensors, or spinning motors with an h-bridge or servo.

does not need even a 'proper' boot media.

and its small and runs on single voltage.

to me, that meets enough of the practical def for embedded use.

All of that applies to the desktop that I'm typing this on:
It can boot headless, and it can run a number of control programs, then watch for changes through a bunch of different interfaces.
It doesn't need a 'proper' boot media either, it can boot off USB, HDD, SD card, CD, DVD, you name it.
It's small and runs on a single voltage.

Terrible definition. NEXT!

Re:Can't we ask for at least... (0)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405739)

It's not embedded, it's an android tablet without the touch screen. Just because there's GPIO doesn't make it any more embedded. It's a general purpose computer until you actually embed it in something.

Re:Can't we ask for at least... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41406551)

Yes, it is -- it has a SoC originally intended to be HDMI video decoder, with various serial and GPIO interfaces exposed, and without expandable CPU bus. Just because it can be connected to a keyboard and a monitor, does not make it any less embedded.

You seriously think the Raspberry Pi is an embedded device? AHAHAHAHA!!! From a three digit nonetheless. This is a freetard epic fail indeed.

Happy 15th Aniversery! (4, Funny)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405385)

Slashdot: news for non-nerds that don't want to have to deal with linux.

Raspberry PI isn't Android, iOS or Windows Phone 8 (0)

LandoCalrizzian (887264) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405409)

The article states "Currently [Adafruit] are working on how to make the Raspberry Pi, the $25 one board computer, easier to use. The problem is that currently it all works with Linux which not every potential user knows or wants to learn just to be able to program the device.".

That one statement takes away from a good article about the Raspberry PI Web IDE. If you're going to learn to "program the device" which I"m assuming means embedded systems then why wouldn't you learn Linux. If you aren't using the gpio outputs to work with hardware then you might as well use the cheaper alternative of your own computer and a bootable usb stick with a distro of your choice. The Raspberry PI is relatively new so stay away if you don't want to get your hands dirty. If you want to stick to software then learn to program with a mobile OS.

tl;dr - startx

Re:Raspberry PI isn't Android, iOS or Windows Phon (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405509)

good

Web IDE

lol wut

Re:Raspberry PI isn't Android, iOS or Windows Phon (3, Insightful)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405587)

The Raspberry Pi isn't an Arduino either. It's not "embedded".

The whole point of the Pi is that it's a fully-fledged standalone system (once you add keyboard/monitor/mouse) - but cheap and robust.

The idea is that a schoolkid -- even one from a family that's not wealthy - can have a Raspberry Pi of their own do mess with as they please. Depending on the distro, it boots to a GUI, you can go straight into an IDE, and if you screw anything up it's easy to start again from scratch.

Re:Raspberry PI isn't Android, iOS or Windows Phon (1)

LandoCalrizzian (887264) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405905)

The Raspberry Pi isn't an Arduino either. It's not "embedded".

The whole point of the Pi is that it's a fully-fledged standalone system (once you add keyboard/monitor/mouse) - but cheap and robust.

The idea is that a schoolkid -- even one from a family that's not wealthy - can have a Raspberry Pi of their own do mess with as they please. Depending on the distro, it boots to a GUI, you can go straight into an IDE, and if you screw anything up it's easy to start again from scratch.

You are correct that the PI itself isn't a true embedded system like the Arduino but the site references Adafruit. Adafruit's whole business model is based around the maker community and they have step by step tutorials for embedded programming w/ the PI.

Re:Raspberry PI isn't Android, iOS or Windows Phon (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406781)

it has semi easy i2c and spi. that almost counts for embedded these days. and somewhat easy onboard serial, as well.

IPython Notebook (1)

braddock (78796) | more than 2 years ago | (#41405709)

Sounds exactly like IPython Notebook, which is awesome in power and ease of use.

Faulty premise (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405835)

The premise of the article appears to be that
A) A Linux distro that boots into a graphical interface is hard to learn
B) Kids who can learn Python can't figure out how to use LXDE.

Both of these ideas are, well, silly. The solution to these "problems" are actually more complicated than just using a plain Raspbery Pi.

Not new (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41405855)

This is not new nor crazy.

BeagleBone folks already do this with Cloud9 IDE and node.js

Very cool, but one small catch. (0)

Lime Green Bowler (937876) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406013)

I was excited up to the point where I read "Oh, and all of your code is stored in the cloud."
Not likely, sorry.

Re:Very cool, but one small catch. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41406587)

HP's cloud [theonion.com] is the best

Does not compute. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41406173)

I don't get this project at all.

It's like people are trying to create problems, then attempting to use the Pi as a solution for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. Case in point, why is Adafruit making a web-based IDE for the Pi? They could run that off their own servers or you could run it locally and achieve the exact same thing. Why do you need a Pi in there to complicate things?

People keep saying that these things are educational, but I don't see how when it uses binary blobs to boot. Want to write your own operating system? Tough shit, you can't without this proprietary binary data here. And it's probably illegal to reverse engineer that so don't even trying.

If you want an educational platform, then build something that comes with a BASIC or Forth interpreter in the boot PROM (similar to OpenFirmware), with the option to load up an OS off internal or external flash media and go from there. Make the hardware totally 100% open- I don't care if that means you have to sacrifice your lame ass hardware mpeg-4 decoder to do that and go with the modern day equivalent of a S3 VGA card. Just make it open, then provide the documentation for everything.

That would be a nice platform to "learn from". Thus far, the only things I've seen that are worth learning from the Pi is how not to do things.

"Linux OS" == "I don't know shit" (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41406303)

I've always found that the phrase "Linux OS" was sufficiently highly correlated with people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about that it can be used as a indicator. Anyone who says it has had their heads filled with corporate junk and white papers.

hmm, simplicity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41406609)

yet I'm still amazed that many CS students don't know the basic steps in compiling a program or even realize that their source code is indeed just a simple plain text file. Many think that all these projects and things they need for their IDE are required without realizing that it's just added stuff for their over-complex text editor...

it makes me sad to see that people only know how to click buttons nowadays without understanding what happens in the background

browser-based programming open source project (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41406635)

I received a my Rasp Pi in the mail a few months ago. It is a bit underpowered for IDE programming, and no way a beginner will use the command line. Scratch comes preinstalled and seems to be what most kids use. Python with an IDE is preinstalled too and is fine, but it's hard to do anything except console apps. I think kids like to see graphics, colors, and maybe write a game, right? Running apache, and likely php for this WebIDE is a bit much for the Pi. Things will be sluggish.

To my surprise, the Pi comes with a very capable HTML5 browser called Midori, which seems to run OK. To support the Pi and re-live my fun days of learning to program on TRS-80s (see "slim" above) I started an open source browser-based programming environment (https://github.com/tbensky/pi80) that uses Javascript in the browser as "the language," but js is kind of ugly and awkward for the beginner. So, the project has a preprocessor that tames javascript down a bit, to make it more like BASIC--gets rid of the { and } and other unnecessary punctuation. You can jump right in and write a single line that draws a circle or prints text to the screen, all in the browser. Trying to make it better--anyone want to help out? Try it here: http://www.codebymath.com/pi80/.

Huh? It is designed to teach kids programming (1)

krelvin (771644) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406903)

The whole point (from the Raspberry Pi Foundation point of view) is to teach kids programming?

You get a RPi, with a SDcard already with the OS on it, plug it into the monitor, keyboard and mouse and go.... Covering all that up with a web interface which just adds another layer of stuff doesn't make sense. Personally, I prefer to use it command line, no GUI and get right into code.

As for delivery... if you are still waiting for one, you bought it from the wrong place. You can order them now and get them in a week or less. I got one in 3 days.

BTW I don't speak for the Foundation...

Its easy to get working; ships (relatively) fast (3, Interesting)

StealthHunter (597677) | more than 2 years ago | (#41406945)

I ordered my Pi from Element14 on Aug 14th and it shipped on Aug 28th. I don't know what you are doing wrong such that you haven't received yours yet.

Once my Pi arrived, I downloaded an SD card image, wrote it to a card using dd, added power to the Pi and everything worked straight away. The parts that took the most effort were retrieving my spare cell phone charger and finding an HDMI cable to connect it to my TV.

Where is all the hate coming from?

That's weird (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41406959)

I thought this article was going to list a place to buy a RPi where you can actually get it before next year. 4 months and waiting....

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?