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Apple: First to Latest

michael posted about 13 years ago | from the too-much-time-on-their-hands dept.

Apple 143

athagon writes: "Being a rabid MacOS fan, I recently tripped over an amazing site on the 'net: Apple History. Intrigued, I continued onward and found a host of information, "codenames", photos, and tech info in general (all who knew that the G4 AGP was codenamed "Sawtooth" raise your hand!). Interested? Check out the site." Random thought: how long before Trivial Pursuit comes out with an edition specializing in technology/computer/internet subjects?

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Frustrating situation (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#305989)

(all who knew that the G4 AGP was codenamed "Sawtooth" raise your hand!). Interested? Check out the site.

I can't check out the site, my hand is up.

Re:Nice site... but.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#305990)

Let me get this straight..... You have a friend that is into Macs and he is JEALOUS of your PC running windoze 2000. Well, here is my config G4 Sawtooth, ADP Graphics, 512M RAM (the same RAM you have in peecees), two ATA hard drives (same hard drive in Peecees) two USB ports, two firewire ports, a cd burner attached to the firewire port, an HP 1200 lasrerjet. I am running OS X which allows me to run BSD/GNU software, classic apps. My G4 comes also comes with Openfirmware (the same as on a Sun Workstation) do you think I am going to look at any W2K box with wonder? Please explain "all the good stuff" I am missing?

Re:Not to speak ill of the dead... (1)

dair (210) | about 13 years ago | (#305992)

The original code name for the machine was "Carl Sagan", but when this news got to the late Mr. Sagan, he sued Apple, and the code name was changed to BHA, or "Butt-Head Astronomer"

Although you can see his point - the other two machines in the same range were "Piltdown Man" and "Cold Fusion", neither of which you would really want to be associated with as a scientist...

-dair (you've got to love the judge's conclusion though: "One does not seriously attack the expertise of a scientist using the undefined phrase 'Butt-Head'" :-)

Re:What about Software? (1)

gavinhall (33) | about 13 years ago | (#305995)

Posted by Nr9:

Mac OS X 10.0.0 = Cheetah
the older mac os series from 7.6 on are a bunch of musical terms.

*raises hand* (5)

alewando (854) | about 13 years ago | (#305996)

G4 AGP was codenamed "Sawtooth" raise your hand!


That one's actually easy, since MOSR [mosr.com] had been repeating the name "Sawtooth" for months in advance of its release.

What's much more interesting (and which most people don't know) is why the Lisa got its name.

Before Wozniak joined with Jobs to found Apple, he was something of a studmuffin (certainly by any standard that encompases Bill Gates, at least), but he had a little trouble "keeping his dick in his pants" as we like to say at the MUG. At times, he was going through three girlfriends a week (and twice as much vermouth and heroin).

Lisa was the one who finally set him on the straight and narrow, because it was her experience in getting an abortion that showed him he wasn't cut out for parenthood and had other things he wanted to accomplish first. He was seventeen at the time.

When the marketers were trying to decide what to name the hot new prototype, one of them recalled Wozniak's motivational story about his torid past and so named it "Lisa".

I'm glad there's now a site to chronicle these events. You can learn a lot about a bit of technology by examining where its inventors came from and what they had to overcome in order to bring it to market, at least in a predictive sense of foreseeing where the company and its technology will go.

Re:Lisa? (2)

Ryano (2112) | about 13 years ago | (#305998)

The Lisa's name has nothing to do with either of the Steves. It is a popular myth that Jobs named the computer after his daughter, but at the time it was being developed Jobs didn't acknowledge that he had a daughter called Lisa. He only later accepted paternity.

Lisa was the name of the daughter of one of the hardware designers on the project, whose name escapes me. Remember that at this time Apple was already a massive company, although many people seem to retain the vision of Woz designing every motherboard, and Steve drawing up every marketing campaign.

Read any of the excellent books on the era for background (Jim Carlton's Apple, for example).

Re:Hardware-oriented (2)

Ryano (2112) | about 13 years ago | (#305999)

Check out his bibliography [apple-history.com] for some reading material. In addition to this stuff, there are some great books which give (often contradictory) accounts of the software projects you mention, as well as some unconfirmed "skunkworks" projects which never saw the light of day. The most interesting of these is "Star Trek", an effort to port Mac OS 7 to Intel hardware, cosponsored by Intel and Novell. The team developed a proof of concept, were given a holiday as a reward, and came back to discover the project had been killed.

The books I've read and can recommend are Jim Carlton's Apple, John Sculley's Odyssey and Gil Amelio's In The Firing Line. The last two are insider's accounts, which doesn't make them any more trustworthy. However, coupled with some independent background material, they make fascinating reading. All available at Amazon.

Re:Innacuracies (3)

Ryano (2112) | about 13 years ago | (#306000)

"...it's not a particularly rigorous piece of historical documementation or even good basic journalism."

Actually, this site is one of the best places to point people if you want to explode the myths surrounding the development of the GUI. Buried deep within the site is this page [apple-history.com], which reprints a discussion between Bruce Horn and Jeff Raskin, two of the Mac's many parents, as to the ins and outs of the GUI development. They don't agree with each other on many issues, but one thing which comes across clearly is that the "urban legend" surrounding these events is just too simplistic to be true.

One thing these discussions reveal is that the story of Apple swiping the concept wholesale from Xerox is simply an impossibility. Like the Internet, many of these concepts had been floating around since the 1960s, when neither Apple nor Xerox PARC existed. What's more, further key concepts were dreamt up entirely by Apple, such as "drag and drop", and others seem to have been arrived at independently at several sites.

Here are some quotes from Raskin taken from this discussion:

As I said in my history of the Mac Project ... the Mac was by no means the work of one person, but the combined efforts of thousands in hundreds of companies large and small. It was not, as many accounts anachronistically relate, stolen from PARC by Steve Jobs after he saw the Alto running SmallTalk on a visit.

..it is perhaps understandable that people would find it necessary to invent a history that derives the Mac's genesis from the nearest similar work. The honest intellectual debt the Mac owes to the work at PARC was not a case of highway robbery.

The OS wars are over ... (1)

Stan Chesnutt (2253) | about 13 years ago | (#306001)

... and only the die-hards are still fighting them. Wake up and smell the coffee! In the late eighties, the wars shifted to the applications arena. Companies lived, fought, and died over such things as word processors (AmiPro, WordStar, MacWord, Word, EdWord, etc), spreadsheets (Wingz, 1-2-3, SuperCalc), and office suites.

The application wars are essentially over. Guess what ... microsoft mostly won! The browser battles are also fading into the past.

The next war is fought over network services. Microsoft has started the Battle of the Bulge with DotNet/Hailstorm, so man the defenses!

Stop quarreling over OS superiority ... it reeks of the stale vi/emacs flamage, or tops-20 vs vms, or dos vs. cp/m

Re:Do the math (1)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | about 13 years ago | (#306002)

Wow, what an amazingly bad post.

128 * 2 = 256

512kB is four times as much as 128kB. Which doesn't matter a hell of a lot, b/c IIRC the Lisa shipped with a full MB in '83. That little feat wouldn't be equalled until the Mac Plus came along. (barring various hacks) Really the Mac should've shipped with 256 - 512kB when it came out - especially given how much they were overcharging for it.

Re:First with the mouse- (2)

maggard (5579) | about 13 years ago | (#306004)

Unfortunately you're wrong (or at least innacurate.)

The Xerox "Star" preceeded Apple's "Lisa".

However as the Star cost decidely more (even more then Lisa's steep $10,000) it wouldn't classify as a consumer-OS. Therefore the Lisa can lay claim as the first "Consumer-OS with a WIMP (Window Icon Mouse Pointer) interface."

Unfortuntaly the Star had Xerox's top-notch non-sales team behind it & while a first & technically interesting (bitmapped display, portrait display, initial use of Ethernet, etc.) it never to succeed in any large scale.

By the way for those who want to repeat the old urban-legend about Apple "stealing" Xerox's ideas actually the Lisa concept was well developed before the Apple folks ever visited Xerox PARC.

Re:Innacuracies (2)

maggard (5579) | about 13 years ago | (#306005)

I'm going to correct myself here: The website does get it right in a couple of places, notably in the hardware timeline where it has an extensive set of links under the heading Xerox GUI.

However the year-by-year business timeline is significently flawed & leaves the misimpression I noted.

Re:First with the mouse- (2)

maggard (5579) | about 13 years ago | (#306006)

Hey Duuude - that was the case back then.

The Xerox Star went for $25,00-$40,000 a station. The Lisa shipped for $10,000. Early Macs cost $4,000 (yeah those little toaster-Macs.) Since you couldn't buy the OS separately from the hardware the costs can't be broken out.

Just for comparison my originial IBM XT cost in the neighborhood of $10,000 too (in early-80's money!) It had:

  • 16 bit 8086 (better then the previous 8088s)
  • A 5.25" 360KB floppy
  • A massive 10MB Winchester drive
  • Built-in tape-drive port on back (for making backups to a modifed audio casette recorder)
  • 64MB RAM (woohoo!)
  • 13" IBM Monochrome Display with a Hercules card (oooh! The GeForce 3 of it's day)
*&*
  • IBM Color Card with a 13" IBM Color display (COLOR!)
That was a totally studly system for back then. Came with a choice of UCSD-Pascal or DOS 2.1. My box was even tricked out with a "Baby Blue II" card allowing it to run CP/M on an onboard z80 processor (there wasn't much stuff out there for DOS or 8086's.)

Back to the Apppe Lisa costing 10 grand, yeah, that's why it's little cousin the Mac sold so well. It didn't have all of Lisa's advanced features like multitasking, bigger monitor, etc. but it cost less then half as much & got you most of the goodies. That's why today folks buy Mac's & the last couple thousand Lisas were consigned to a landfill in Arizona.

Innacuracies (5)

maggard (5579) | about 13 years ago | (#306009)

Just to give folks a reminder: Just 'cause someone put it on a web-page doesn't mean it's true...

For example the web-site linked to claims that it was a visit to Xerox PARC that inspired the Apple Lisa. Rather the Lisa was well along it's development (with the GUI close to it's final form) before the famous trip.

While it's become geek-folklore to assert Apple "stole" the GUI from Xerox PARC you'll note that none of the folks involved have ever said so & indeed often go to lengths to point out the differences between the Xerox Star & what Apple shipped as the Lisa & Macintosh. Indeed this would be more accurately labelled an "urban legend".

Overall the web-site is a nice one & presents lots of information (none of it particularly unknown but still nice to see out there) however it's not a particularly rigorous piece of historical documementation or even good basic journalism.

Re:First with the mouse- (2)

unitron (5733) | about 13 years ago | (#306010)

If you count stuff produced for in-house use instead of just what's offered for sale to the general public I think the Xerox Alto got there first.

Re:Geek Trivia (why engineers don't do well on Jeo (1)

Splat (9175) | about 13 years ago | (#306012)

"I'll take Macintosh Codenames for $400, Alex"
"This 13.6 pound Mac with 32-bit clean ROMs was originally nicknamed "Stingray""
"What is the Mac IIci?
"Correct!"

Re:Plagurism!! (1)

GiMP (10923) | about 13 years ago | (#306014)

Just for those of you interested.. the exact page(s) on apple-history.com which is suspect is here [apple-history.com]

The text does look a little too professional for Tom's site.. but apple-history.com is not the most professional of sites either. Someone is lying, not that I really care who it is :)

Plagurism!! (2)

GiMP (10923) | about 13 years ago | (#306016)

I was looking for some information on the history of Apple today, for ammunition against some trolls lurking on irc.. I found this [iquest.net] page, when I saw this link.. I realized that the history section is lifted directly off of the page I had seen earlier.

Of course, the page I found could be the counterfeit one, but I don't see why the personal homepage of an apple employee would need to copy this from another site!

The page I linked to is written by a Tom Elam, while Apple-history.com claims that all material was written and copyrighted by a Glen Sanford!

You can never be too careful with information you find on the web, it may not be from who you think it is

Wait for the slashdot effect ... (1)

Roy Ward (14216) | about 13 years ago | (#306017)

From the site:

"The main site was down for a few hours, as we maxed out our bandwidth for the month. We've transfered over 12GB in the last two weeks! I've worked out a way to make sure that if we max out our bandwidth in the future, we just pay more, instead of the site going down..."

They are _really_ going to thank slashdot for this story being posted.

I hope everyone uses the mirrors where appropriate.

Roy Ward.

Re:thought everyone knew this one (2)

Zico (14255) | about 13 years ago | (#306018)

Apple is now cool for being the largest installed user base of a single Unix distribution.

Only problem: It isn't.


Cheers,

Geek Trivia (why engineers don't do well on Jeopar (3)

weston (16146) | about 13 years ago | (#306019)

A couple of years ago, I was watching Jeopardy. An engineer who'd been playing had done really well -- won several games, in fact -- and Alex Trebek said to him "You know, traditionally, engineers don't do so well on the show, but you've been doing great. Why is that?" He replied: "Well, Alex, the reason most engineers don't do so well on the show is that you're missing categories like 'differential equations' and 'rotational kinematics'".

I'll take "regular expressions" for $400, please.......ah, "What is the /eeg
modifier?"

--

Re:Oh... G4/AGP is aka Sawtooth? OH! (1)

ihxo (16767) | about 13 years ago | (#306020)

Anyone who follows apple's product close enough should know what are their software/hardware's codename.

Not to speak ill of the dead... (3)

bbk (33798) | about 13 years ago | (#306022)

But check out the Powermac 7100 page... The original code name for the machine was "Carl Sagan", but when this news got to the late Mr. Sagan, he sued Apple, and the code name was changed to BHA, or "Butt-Head Astronomer".. No joke. You can check out the whole story here:

http://www.macspeedzone.com/articles/appleconfid en tial/sagan.shtml

BBK, random fact monkey

Re:Lisa? (1)

kephunk (35920) | about 13 years ago | (#306023)

I backup Tom on this one. In "Fire in the Valley" it's stated that Lisa was the name of his daughter (and first born child I believe)

ke-PHUNK!

Re:Where's the part (2)

macpeep (36699) | about 13 years ago | (#306024)

Offtopic? How was the parent post offtopic? I also just (30 seconds ago) saw a post on the advertisements in games that was "redundant" even though it was a perfectly good post about Wipeout and in-game ads. As far as I could tell, nobody had mentioned it before that. Moderation used to be bad and misplaced but now it's downright WRONG.

Now.. go ahead and moderate *THIS* post as "offtopic" because this one (my post) really is offtopic.

Re:Great Apple history (1)

WillAdams (45638) | about 13 years ago | (#306025)

For an alternative view of how Newton came to be, look at Jerry Kaplan's _Startup_, the story of Go Corp. PenPoint, and how Taiwan's MITI came to own a 32-bit, object-oriented, pre-emptive multi-tasking OS.

The short version is Kaplan came up with the idea (first published in Niven & Pournell's _The Mote in God's Eye_, I believe) of commercializing a pen slate computer, Mitch Kapor (and others) bankrolled it, and they had an Apple engineer sit in on the original bull session sketching out the company concept.

::still kicking myself for getting rid of my NCR-3125 running PenPoint, and wish someone would make a pen slate I'd be interested in buying::

William


--
Lettering Art in Modern Use

face it, the web sux (2)

QuantumG (50515) | about 13 years ago | (#306028)

if we were all using Freenet (or something with the same technology but lacking the idiology that without anonymity the technology is useless) then the "Slashdot effect" would be a non issue. Then again, I suppose it might manifest itself in other ways, like all that talk about "unpopular data just disappearing off freenet" might have even worse ramifications when a piece of data becomes popular in a very short period of time and then not so popular after a week or so.

Re:thought everyone knew this one (2)

QuantumG (50515) | about 13 years ago | (#306029)

Checking X is one thing that Apple can get away with because there's no-one standing around (and not doing anything themselves mind you) saying "but X is great because of network transparency and my never-touch-the-mouse window manager" and shit like that. Apple doesn't have to convince anyone that dumping X is a good idea because the people who use their OS have never seen X (and hopefully never will).

Re:Where is Jobs great quotes? (2)

QuantumG (50515) | about 13 years ago | (#306031)

How about.. "You've been awake for 36 hours straight? I dont care! This shit sux!"

Re:AROS and more important stuff (2)

QuantumG (50515) | about 13 years ago | (#306032)

Fuck animals and frankly, fuck you. If you think AROS is the bomb (and frankly there aint much competition about) get your ass into gear and make something out of it. Wannabe operating system toting son of a bitch.

Re:Innacuracies (2)

QuantumG (50515) | about 13 years ago | (#306033)

Some reason I dont think there will be too many victims of the crime lining up to sue this site for revisionist history. The past is alterable man. Just repeat the same lie enough times and have it documented by journalists who are too lazy to do their own research and it soon becomes fact. That's the way the US single handedly one the second world war didn't you know.

Re:thought everyone knew this one (2)

QuantumG (50515) | about 13 years ago | (#306034)

I hear ya man.. but people dont want to. They like their stupid little window managers. Not that many people who run linux actually use gnome and kde and all that crap. There are literally thousands of apps written for motif that people use. All of them could be ported to gtk or qt or something but are they? No. Once again, what becomes popular has nothing to do with what is good. It has to do with "network effects" as we all used to say 3 years ago.

Re:[low] IQ (2)

QuantumG (50515) | about 13 years ago | (#306037)

Actually it's a quote but seeing as I cant actually point you at the person who said it I guess I'll just have to accept your critisism. Now if you were really smart (which you obviously think you are) you would have said "that's because they didn't poll you", but I guess that's too much to ask of one man's grasp on statistics. Think a bit longer before making inane observations, k? Thanks.

Re:Innacuracies (1)

Oniros (53181) | about 13 years ago | (#306039)

That's indeed a urban legend. You can see the history of the creation of the LISA as well as screenshots at:
http://home.san.rr.com/deans/lisagui.html

One interesting site with extensive and seemingly accurate information is:
http://library.stanford.edu/mac/index.html

Re:Great Apple II history sites (1)

volpe (58112) | about 13 years ago | (#306041)

Yeah, that last one is really cool. I stumbled on to it a while ago when I did a web search for my name and discovered that they cited me on Page 3 (footnote 8). What a blast from the past.

Re:MOSR (1)

k_187 (61692) | about 13 years ago | (#306042)

V'Ger was the code name for the G4+ or G4e or PPC7450. Now if you really want to get technical, what was the code name for the 10x multiplier rev of the Amumnium(I know that's spelled wrong, get over it) G3?

Re:thought everyone knew this one (2)

krmt (91422) | about 13 years ago | (#306046)

Yeah, that's very true, and the fact that apple has such control lets them do things that /.'ers (particularly trolls) only dream about.

Personally, I don't love X in the slightest, but I think that the fact that it's a workable system gives it a lot of clout. While I wish it had more of a tiered approach (there was some comment about the Networking built on top of the GUI, not vice-versa that I loved) I think that the libraries that are built on top of it should give everyone a real impressive reason to keep going with it. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't chuck X, just not run around screaming to throw it away before actually having something really good in it's place. I'm just waiting patiently for Berlin :-)

"I may not have morals, but I have standards."

Re:thought everyone knew this one (3)

krmt (91422) | about 13 years ago | (#306047)

Yeah, I think it's the first on the choices. The fact that the Mac has UNIX under the hood and they managed to do the impossible by chucking X (an idea that I think has been blown way out of proportion.) For the first time, the Mac isn't just "the computer for the rest of us", but the computer also for the UNIX hacker in the rest of the rest of us.

"I may not have morals, but I have standards."

Lots of mirrors (5)

jpatokal (96361) | about 13 years ago | (#306050)

In a rare case of foresight, the site has official mirrors around the globe:

Gotta love that front page note though, dated January 30th:

The main site was down for a few hours, as we maxed out our bandwidth for the month. We've transfered over 12GB in the last two weeks! I've worked out a way to make sure that if we max out our bandwidth in the future, we just pay more, instead of the site going down...

Baaaaaaaad move...

Cheers,
-j.

Mirrors! (5)

Xenex (97062) | about 13 years ago | (#306051)

From Apple-History.com [apple-history.com]'s front page:

1/30/01

The main site was down for a few hours, as we maxed out our bandwidth for the month. We've transfered over 12GB in the last two weeks! I've worked out a way to make sure that if we max out our bandwidth in the future, we just pay more, instead of the site going down... I've also moved the movies and most of the images to a seperate server.

As always, please use one of our mirrors [apple-history.com] if possible.

And this was back at late January...

This time the Slashdot effect isn't just funny or stupid. It is going to cost a fan that is dedicating their own money for no profit.

For the love of god, do them a favour, and use theirmirrors [apple-history.com]!

Incase you missed that:
MIRRORS!! [apple-history.com]

Re:Innacuracies (1)

bonoboy (98001) | about 13 years ago | (#306052)

Read Infinite Loop. It gives a very interesting perspective on this. I believe it was actually Jef Raskin that had been working on this theory while he was doing his Masters before even entering the industry. He knew he wanted to develop the Lisa with a GUI, and took the rest of the Lisa engineers to PARC to convince them of it.

Though, I must admit, I may have mixed up Raskin with someone else here. Either way, apparently the engineers took the trip, and Steve ad to be convinced it was his idea much, much later. Apparently this is the best way to get Steve to do anything.

Re:Where's the part (2)

T.Hobbes (101603) | about 13 years ago | (#306053)

yeah you're a troll, but for those who haven't read the article (which, incidentally, was posted here earlier today..) .. the article is total bs. it takes a few quotes from a book that linus wrote where he puts mach down. since osx is already out, and there's actual current news about it, they invent stories to start flamewars, making them edgy. so long as you click a few more banners...

Do the math (2)

mapinguari (110030) | about 13 years ago | (#306055)

Interestingly, the Lisa had 512K of RAM (in 1983), four times more than the Mac

Last time I checked, 512 was only twice as much as 128. The first Mac had 128 [apple-history.com], not 64, and was soon upgradable to 512 (aka Fat Mac).

How long? (1)

shpoffo (114124) | about 13 years ago | (#306056)

Random thought: how long before Trivial Pursuit comes out with an edition specializing in technology/computer/internet subjects

A. as long as it takes one of their execs to read this article...


-shpoffo

Hardware-oriented (3)

Animats (122034) | about 13 years ago | (#306059)

I'd like to see more software history, such as the story of the abandoned OS projects (the Microkernel, Copland, Bedrock, etc.) What went wrong? How far did those projects actually get? Was it a management problem or a technical problem? An insider's retrospective on those would be valuable.

Nice site... but.... (2)

Darth Turbogeek (142348) | about 13 years ago | (#306061)

I never really got into Apples after the Apple II. I never liked the GUI and I certainly never liked their all in one "You must buy Apple hardware and software" ideas.

I stress, this is my opinions. The only things I liked Apple for was the graphics and video editing abilities, but not much more. Apple themselves could have had the market much like Microsoft does IF they ported their OS to different hardware or allowed less restrictive licencing. It could have happened - Apple does have a great deal of good will thru it's history that Microsoft never had. What Microsoft had tho, was the ability to market and place it's products (be it legal or illegal - however it did I wont comment on here, that fact is they have) far better than Apple have. it seems to me apple have been obsessed with being better looking and just cooler. Might work for the hardcore fans, but for the Great Unwashed? "Hey I heard these eye-Macs come in different colours" - and then go buy the latest Intel based box with Windows

IMO, apple had the world in their grasp. They failed to seize the opportunity when they had it and even now they just dont see the way to spread their products further than their current share, which I understand is still declining.

It sort of sums it up when my former flatmate, an real Apple evangelist, looked at my W2K box and wonder why he cant have all the good stuff - hardware, apps etc. I had. Even he realises Apple have dropped the ball and badly.

Is OS X going to change anything? I dunno. Hope so. Sadly, I dont think so. In five years, I just dont see Apple being part of the picture any more in reality than they are now

Re:Not to speak ill of the dead... (1)

stokes (148512) | about 13 years ago | (#306062)

He was alive at the time. I'm not sure whether or not it was Sagan being a butthead or just not understanding things. His lawsuit was based on the idea that Apple was going to be selling a product with his name, which he did not endorse. "Sagan" was only the codename, but it had been leaked and widely published, so one could understand the misunderstanding.

OT: That's not to say that Carl wasn't prone to buttheadism. My brother, who went to Cornell, told me a story about him. Carl Sagan lived next door to a frat, and one night the fratboys invited him to dinner. He came and they all had a grand ol' time. A few weeks later, the frat received a letter from Mr. Sagan. What they assumed was a thank-you note turned out to be a very large bill for the 'speaking engagement.'

yes we know "sawtooth" (1)

bmidgley (148669) | about 13 years ago | (#306063)

It used to be that few people knew the code names for apple models. Then apple decided that it would stop changing the name of a machine when it changed the architecture. For a while, you could use the cpu speed to identify it uniquely but that's precarious.

Use of the code names became commonplace when arch changes became significant. For example, when sawtooth was new, two models both claiming to be G4 (yikes/sawtooth) were so different that the linux kernel ran fine on one but needed massive changes before it would run on the other.

Re:What about Software? (1)

minimis (151116) | about 13 years ago | (#306065)

Blue and Pink, based on the color of Post-its used to brainstorm ideas on the future of the MacOS, blue for stuff that could be added, and pink for stuff that needed a complete rewrite. Blue became System7 (hence Bluebox and TruBlueEnvironment for MacOS X's "Classic" environment.) and Pink became Taligent (a "set of object-based system service frameworks built on top of an enhanced version of the Mach 3.0 microkernel", sound familiar?).

Opus - A 68k Microkernel from 1988, the original host for TAE (Taligent Application Environment) frameworks.

Copland - Replacement for TaligentOS, apart from preemptive multitasking most of Copland's tech became MacOS 8 (userland) and MacOS 9 (kernel).

Gershwin - Projected successor to Copland, no actual coding.

Star Trek - Apple & Novell's MacOS for Intel.

Road Warrior - System 7.01 (first PowerBook OS)
Cube-E - System 7.1
Jirocho - System 7.1 Pro
Mozart / Capone - System 7.5 (Capone vs Chicago)
Marconi - System 7.5.2
Unity - System 7.5.3
Buster - System 7.5.3r1 (Gil Amelio's childhood nickname)
Son of Buster - System 7.5.3r2
Harmony - MacOS 7.6
Ides of Buster - MacOS 7.6.1
Tempo - MacOS 8.0
Bride of Buster - MacOS 8.1
Allegro - MacOS 8.5
Veronica - MacOS 8.6
Sonata - MacOS 9.0
Fortissimo - MacOS 9.1
Moonlight - MacOS 9.2
Rhapsody - MacOS X Server 1.0
Cyan / Siam - MacOS X (a different shade of blue)
Kodiak - MacOS X Public Beta
Cheetah - MacOS X 10.0
Puma - MacOS X 10.1
Jaguar - MacOS X Server 2.0

Walkabout - Location Manager
Amber - OpenDoc
Warhol - Quicktime 1.0
Dali - Quicktime 1.5
Biscotti - Quicktime for Java

Pigs in Space - A/UX 1.0
Space Cadet - A/UX 2.0
Hulk Hogan - A/UX 3.0

Re:MOSR (2)

minimis (151116) | about 13 years ago | (#306066)

And how many know what has the code name SteveJobsLivesInMyClosetAndTellMeThings.com [mosr.com]?

This isn't a good site, many people will remember when someone doctored a shot of a new Nokia product and Meader ran it as "Top Secret iPhone revealed by our Apple sources", or the whole UMA-1 vs UMA-2 bullshit that he's been plying for years.

What he has called UMA-1 in the past was really called Core99 and Apple has even used this "codename" in public, and yet when Apple finally moved the January2001 iMac to a new architecture, where "UniNorth" (north-bridge) and "KeyLargo" (south-bridge) were combined into Pangea [apple.com] he didn't even notice!

You seem unaware that trolling MacOS Rumors [mosr.com] is a popular pastime among knowledgeable Mac users, and alledgedly even Apple staff?

Re:Mirrors! (1)

RESPAWN (153636) | about 13 years ago | (#306070)

This is why I've said before that we the slashdot readers should institute a system of mirrors for sites linked to in postings. Usually, the only effect is that many people who don't refresh every five minutes usually have to fight through the slashdot effect in order to view the material. But sometimes there are cases such as this where this poor Apple fan might have to pay out the wazoo for our slashdotting.

If anybody is willing to organize a system of mirrors for slashdot, I would be willing to contribute what resources I can. Namely, my web space and bandwidth from two different accounts here at my university. Hell, I'd even offer to server the stuff off my own box if it weren't for the fact that I still have to boot to Windows for a few select pieces of software and games.

If anybody wants to attempt to set up a mirror system, give me an email: caldwell@NOSPAM.eecs.tulane.edu. And remove the obvious to mail me.


--------------------------------------

Donate to Apple-History! (5)

Rura Penthe (154319) | about 13 years ago | (#306071)

If you go to this site and like it please consider donating [apple-history.com] to Apple-History to help them stay alive. Especially considering what a heavy strain slashdotting the site is going to be on the financial resources of the site owner. :/

Re:Mirrors! (1)

kirkb (158552) | about 13 years ago | (#306072)

Why? We all know that mac folk (escpecially the self-proclaimed "rabid" ones) have lots of money to burn.

Re:Not to speak ill of the dead... (1)

kirkb (158552) | about 13 years ago | (#306073)

...but when this news got to the late Mr. Sagan, he sued Apple...

I don't know if I'm more shocked that Mr. Sagan can somehow act from beyond the grave, or disappointed that our legal system allows deceased people to file lawsuits.

Mmm... Trivial Pursuit & Monopoly ".com" edition (2)

Misch (158807) | about 13 years ago | (#306074)

Some good a Trivial Pursuit for the Internet would be... Real world updates way too fast. I remember when Monopoly came out with the ".com" edition. No sooner had it arrived on store shelves then, *poof*, one of the businesses on the board goes under. So much for dead-tree in the Internet.

Oh how obscure!? (3)

table and chair (168765) | about 13 years ago | (#306075)

all who knew that the G4 AGP was codenamed "Sawtooth" raise your hand!

Um, doesn't pretty much everyone distinguish the AGP G4's from the PCI G4's by referring to them as Sawtooth and Yikes? It's not like this is some obscure bit of insider trivia... my Blue and White G3 has the word "Yosemite" on a sticker affixed in a plainly visible spot on the motherboard, a practice I'd assume continued to the G4's.

Since any real Mac user would have known that and chosen something more appropriate to call to our attention, I suspect the person who submitted this story is in fact a closet MacOS freak, who likes to prance around in thick guiliciousness when nobody is looking, with the ocassional bout of exhibitionism, as we can see here. Most of the time he can be found stroking his Start button with a pitiful expression of desire and self-loathing on his face..

"But everyone will laugh at me if I say I want a Macintosh!"





Great Apple history (4)

piecewise (169377) | about 13 years ago | (#306077)

I too am fascinated with the history of Apple. They're reall an American icon, and a great success->failure->success story. Think about it.. Apple was one of the first true tech stocks. Apple started the personal computer industry. Apple made the first PDA. In fact, thereis a GREAT book called Defying Gravity on how the Newton was made. Fascinating book.

I'll share a tidbit about Newton, then, for all of you to enjoy.

The Newton was developed by Michael Tchao.. But he was awfully afraid to present the idea to then-CEO John Sculley, in fear of him thinking it was stupid or risking his job.

They were all on a trip to Japan for Macworld, and Michael's collegues felt it an appropriate time to mention it to Sculley.

Michael did so.. and Sculley, ever eager to learn, began brainstorming with him. Two years later, it was a product.

I think this is a good example of Positive Environment. When you work at a company where you can openly talk about a product idea, and get the ball rolling, that company in the end will be very successful.

I have friends who work at Apple, and they always say what a positive environment it is. How positive the OS X engineers are.. how helpful the OS 9 engineers are.

In fact, if you look at apple.com/jobs (not Steve Jobs, but rather employment ;-) -- it says Apple is looking for "cool, talented people"

How COOL is that?!
:-)

thought everyone knew this one (3)

firewort (180062) | about 13 years ago | (#306079)

All apple-heads know of this site... and it gets regular linkage from lowendmac.com

The only reason I can fathom that this article got posted was-

Apple is now cool for being the largest installed user base of a single Unix distribution.

Apple makes nice hardware (and some jerk always says he can get a junkbox x86 cheaper) even if the previous OS was always a kludgey sort of cooporative tasking thing. (amazing how it made the transition from 68k to PPC, tho...)

Apple got slammed by Linus recently, so anything Apple is newsworthy here.

Well, it's always good to see a site like apple-history.com get noticed. They've set a goal for the type of content they want and always delivered it with complete information, never half-baked, always quality.



A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close

Trivial Pursuit: (3)

Alien54 (180860) | about 13 years ago | (#306080)

Random thought: how long before Trivial Pursuit comes out with an edition specializing in technology/computer/internet subjects?

Well, there is this User Friendly cartoon sequence on Geek Jeopardy [userfriendly.org]

"I'll tale Obscure Modem Commands for 300, Alex"

(there are several of these in the following week or so of cartoons)

Check out the Vinny the Vampire [eplugz.com] comic strip

Re:Innacuracies (1)

logiceight (187269) | about 13 years ago | (#306083)

Just to give folks a reminder: Just 'cause someone put it on a web-page doesn't mean it's true...

WHAT!?! NO!! That's a lie!

Absolute crap (1)

sh00z (206503) | about 13 years ago | (#306086)

Let's see: the first topic on the site is the domain owner's sale of his personal hardware. Later down the page, there are Paypal and Kagi links where I can make a $5 donation to "support" the site. This is EXACTLY the kind of site I usually avoid. And yes, I *did* know abouy "Sawtooth." All True Believers (tm) should have been up on that about 16 months ago.

MOSR (1)

KurdtX (207196) | about 13 years ago | (#306087)

Mac OS Rumors [macosrumors.com] - For any Apple fanatics out there, here's a good site, although they are a little starry-eyed. I've been reading them for a year or two, and they knew all about Sawtooth (and a host of other code-names). Do you know what had the code name "V'Ger"?

Kurdt

What about Software? (1)

pfistech (211622) | about 13 years ago | (#306088)

Now that we know all about Apple's codenames for hardware, what about software? I'm sure there are lots of not well known codenames for Mac OS or Quicktime releases, especially for the various Mac OS X builds. Anyone?

I hope things are much better :) (2)

2nd Post! (213333) | about 13 years ago | (#306089)

Very nice comment, sympathetic, nostalgic, conceding, yet still ending with a note of doom.

As long as Apple continues to make a profit, it can survive. That's necessary, but not sufficient. Apple also needs to continue gaining/getting developer support. It needs to get commercial apps.

It's already got the Microsoft products, so it's not being kept out of the office. It's got the Adobe products, so it's still strong in the graphics industry. It's got the BSD OS in OS X, so hopefully they can woo and attract the large and diversified Open Source guys.

Apple's strength and hope is diversification. It can, right now, tackle multiple growth points; the development community who prefer a Unix workstation (at commodity prices with a slick if unoptimized UI), the education community which has traditionally worked with Macs, the business community with it's full suite of M$ Office programs and sealed box hardware, the Good Looking People, with the Titanium powerbook and the Cube, the graphics and DTP community as a traditional stronghold for Macs, and the consumer market, with it's pretty and stylish iMacs.

Apple just has to be smart enough to choose 2 or 3 of the fastest growing markets and jump in; will it be people who, having become saturated with cheap fast computers, desire style and flash? Will it be the education market, as schools start to get networked and connected as never before? Will it be the business industry, as the economy recovers and gets back on track? Or the development community, as the economy recovers and everything tech becomes hot again? Or the home market, with the push for digital content, digital hubs, and digital media?

Hopefully Apple will choose wisely, because it would be nice to see what other cool stuff they can pull off in six years :)

Geek dating! [bunnyhop.com]

pretty interesting... (1)

kstumpf (218897) | about 13 years ago | (#306090)

Its amazing how dramatic the evolution of computers in this area has been. I didn't realize Microsoft's trademark 'borrowing of ideas' went back quite that far. Windows XP is the same old game too.

That movie 'Pirates of Silicon Valley' has been on TNN recently also. Its kind of crusty, but an interesting dramatization nonetheless.

Doug's Demo (1)

3G (220614) | about 13 years ago | (#306091)

True. The Xerox-style GUI was well known for a decade before the Lisa used it. Its creator, Douglas Engelbart, demoed it in 1968 [brown.edu].

It really sucks that he doesn't get more mention when people talk about the whole Xerox-Apple story.

First with the mouse- (2)

3G (220614) | about 13 years ago | (#306092)

Not a lot of people know that the Apple Lisa [apple-history.com] was the first personal computer ever with a GUI, and be sold with a mouse. Most people assume it was its descendant, the Macintosh.

Interestingly, the Lisa had 512K of RAM (in 1983), four times more than the Mac had when it came out over a year later.

Problem with it, though, was that it also came with a $10,000 price tag. In 1989, Apple finally junked thousands of unsold Lisas [sunder.net] in a nearby landfill.

Some codenames (1)

SpyceQube (224045) | about 13 years ago | (#306094)

"all who knew that the G4 AGP was codenamed "Sawtooth" raise your hand!"

That's easy! Now, who the hell knows what the codename of the "digital audio" G4 (The new ones) is?

I list machines by code name in my inventory database and no one will tell me what the new one's are called. I got "Shark"s and "Sawtooth"s and "Mystic"s (and "gossamer"s, "yosemite"s, "lifesaver"s, "columbus"s, "pismo"s, "lombard"s, "wallstreet"s, and even a lone old "cold fusion") but I have naught to call the new 733 jobbie.

Re:Apple Codenames (1)

SpyceQube (224045) | about 13 years ago | (#306095)

And those bastards at Chevy with their so-called "Corvette". There are 5 or 6 different cars all with the official name "Corvette". That confuses everybody so technichal manuals start talking about "C4s" and "1994 1/2s". Since these are utterly retarded product names, the Chevy drivers have pretty much fallen back to the code names. So when you look on carpoint you see all these ads for "Stingray Corvettes" and the like. Which of course makes zero sense to someone not inbred (sic) into the Chevy community.

Re:I'm surprised... (1)

decaying (227107) | about 13 years ago | (#306099)

It probably went through an MS Passport service at some stage.... therefore making it MS's IP.

Re:The OS wars are over ... (1)

FrostedChaos (231468) | about 13 years ago | (#306100)

It's true, Microsoft has the money and the market share to crush anyone who tries to take a slice of the OS market. Think about Be.

Apple, I believe, is only kept alive to create the illusion of choice. They have made deals with Microsoft before. Microsoft knows that by and large, they have little to fear from an os running on expensive proprietary hardware. Meanwhile, any advantages Mac might once have had are long gone.

Linux is a greater threat to microsoft than anything apple might do. However, technical hurdles will probably keep linux right where it is now... marginal. Applications developers have no real reason to support it, even if hardware companies like AMD are interested.

Network services pretty much will belong to megacorporations in any case. Only large companies have the clout to bring these plans to fruition. In any case, the idea isn't as great as the hype surrounding it would lead you to believe.

Btw, the AC who responded to this earlier is just sexually frustrated. Don't pay any attention to him.

Tom Elam (1)

phillymjs (234426) | about 13 years ago | (#306101)

...is quite possible one of the most annoying people ever to plague comp.sys.mac.advocacy. Considering how frequently he makes Mac- and Apple-bashing posts in there, I'm surprised he has anything like this at all on his personal site.

~Philly

Re:Frustrating situation (1)

Thaidog (235587) | about 13 years ago | (#306102)

What happened to your other hand? Which hand? You know you have to have thumbs the have a hand...

Trivial pursuit (1)

CrimsonHat (245444) | about 13 years ago | (#306106)

Random thought: how long before Trivial Pursuit comes out with an edition specializing in technology/computer/internet subjects?

This will happen when /. has a topic asking for trivial pursuit questions. /. will then publish the cards to the world. Of course /. readers will have an unfair advantage, as they do in most intellectual challenges.

Re:Great Apple II history sites (1)

CrimsonHat (245444) | about 13 years ago | (#306107)

This is some great history for me! The first computer that I really used was an Apple IIc. I used that thing for about 8 years, until my dad finally shelled out the money for a 386 20Mhz with 8MB of RAM!!! Funny how a 386 used to be a huge step up in the world. I remember when I tried taking a game over to my friend's, who had an apple IIE. The game wouldn't run because he only had 64K of ram. What a pour soul. Don't you guys remember the great games on those machines? I won Might and Magic I and II on that old beast of a machine. How about the birth of Ultima? These were really awesome machines for the day. I think that they really were the birth of the PC age.

Yeah, there was the commodores(god I hated those tapes); My dad ended up making a sprinkler system out of a commodore 64. I played my first moon lander game on a commodore. What ever happened to them anyway? I really wasn't very into business in the 80s.

I learned how to program basic on apple computers. Now I know how evil that GOTO statement really is. Apples were the first computers that were widely used in schools. In the schools I went to, we used Apple IIe's through 9th grade. I really can't count the number of games that I have played on an apple II. There were so many educational and entertainment games written for the apple II. I wish that I could list them all. Lode runner, snake, pirates, endless text based games, Might and Magic, ultima, EPYX Summer games, winter games, california games, and street games. Did EPYX get bought by somebody or did they just go out of business?

I really miss the antique days of PCs. Well, back to programming drivers tomorrow. I don't think I ever imagined the day where I'd be surrounded by 4 monitors in a cubicle. 1 develpment machine, 1 test machine with a regular monitor and a monochrome monitor for softICE(sorry I program windows drivers), and a monitor for watching the bus.

god I love nostalgia!

Apple Codenames (2)

Petrophile (253809) | about 13 years ago | (#306111)

Actually, if you want to deal with Apple products, you pretty much have to know the codenames.

For example, there were 3 or 4 different G3-based PowerBooks, all with the official name "G3 PowerBook".

Well, that confused even Apple, so the technotes start talking about "G3 PowerBook (bronze keyboard)" and "G3 PowerBook (firewire)".

Since these are utterly retarded product names, the Mac users have pretty much fallen back to the codenames. So when you L@@K at eBay, you see all these ads for "WallStreet PowerBook" and the like. Which of course also makes zero sense to someone not inbred into the Mac community.

Re:IBM XT (1)

blamanj (253811) | about 13 years ago | (#306112)

my originial IBM XT [... had ...] 16 bit 8086 (better then the previous 8088s)

Time to replace those RAM chips in your skull, old boy. The XT used an 8088, not an 8086. The 8088 had the 16-bit architecture of the 8086 but an 8-bit external bus. This allowed it to be used as an upgrade in the 8080/8085/Z80 hardware world.

Re:Great Apple II history sites (1)

tb3 (313150) | about 13 years ago | (#306114)

Lucky bloody you. I started programming on an 8K Commadore PET with cassette tape storage. Type "load" press "play aon the cassette deck and wait fifteen minutes. Amiazing the amount of code you could cram into 8K (or 16 or 48) in those days. Now you've got crap like IBM WebSphere that wants 512Meg of RAM to run. Sigh.
-----------------

Pirates of Silicon Valley (1)

tb3 (313150) | about 13 years ago | (#306115)

The great thing about that movie was the characterizations of Jobs as an obsessed megalomanic and Gates as a greedy, socially inept creep. At least Jobs has a sense of humor. At a Mac conference a while back he had Noah Wiley (who played Jobs in the movie) come out and start the show. Then Jobs himself came out and basically interupted 'himself'.
I can't imagine Bill inviting Anthoy Michael Hall to a Microsoft presentation until Hailstorm freezes over.
-----------------

Tech trivial pursuit? (1)

gregfortune (313889) | about 13 years ago | (#306116)

Finally, a trivial pursuit for which I can actually answer some questions :) Really, who cares about the name of the 4th movie that starred Denise Richards (doh, bad example...) Maybe they'll even put questions in like "What year did Guido and Larry Wall join forces to produce the ultimate language, Parrot?" Now there's a question I can answer!

Missing a great pun... (3)

CyberDawg (318613) | about 13 years ago | (#306117)

This site omits what I thought was one of Apple's best puns.

When I got my first Apple///, it came with a pre-release version of their new operating system. On the front cover of the manual, it was plainly labeled as the Sophisticated Operating System, or Apple SOS.

I still have that manual, and a couple of Apple///s, too.

Oh... G4/AGP is aka Sawtooth? OH! (1)

strictnein (318940) | about 13 years ago | (#306118)

(all who knew that the G4 AGP was codenamed "Sawtooth" raise your hand!)

Me was under the impression that it was common knowledge.

Re:Mirrors! (1)

sagacious_gnostic (319793) | about 13 years ago | (#306119)

Ooops. I clicked on the link from the front page before reading the comments. My bad. Maybe a link to the mirrors would be nice in the story headline.

Re:Plagurism!! (1)

glen_sanford (441908) | about 13 years ago | (#306129)

This certainly isn't the first time somebody has stolen my content. Do a seach on google using any sentance from my site, and you will find a number of sites using plagiarized content.

Unfortunately, there isn't really any way to restrict usage of internet content, so I have to rely on people's good intentions...

For the record I wrote every word of that history, and it pains me to see my writing as misused as it is on Tom Elam's site. Halfway though he starts to add in his own writing, and it is painfully clear from Elam's additions that the writing above is not his own.

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