Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

How Microsoft Is Wooing College Kids To Write Apps For Windows 8

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the don't-take-candy-from-strangers dept.

Education 187

SquarePixel writes "Bloomberg has an interesting story about Microsoft's efforts to simultaneously woo younger workers and to get more apps into its Windows Store. Quoting: 'Microsoft, the world's largest software maker, designed Windows 8 for touch-screen technology included in the company's first tablet, Surface, and other devices coming this year. To gain share in tablets, a market expected by DisplaySearch to reach $66.4 billion in 2012, Microsoft needs enough apps to challenge the more than 200,000 available for iPad. Using student recruits is one way Microsoft can woo app developers who are used to building programs for mobile phones and tablets, where the company has little and no share, respectively. Luring programmers before graduation is particularly critical for recruitment in the U.S., which lags behind countries such as India and China in its ability to crank out qualified engineers.'"

cancel ×

187 comments

Visual Studio (1, Troll)

PieLala (2736201) | about 2 years ago | (#41413139)

I haven't noticed before, but MS offers free Visual Studio Express nowadays.. And Visual Studio coupled with XNA sure sounds better than how we had it back in the day. And with MSDN docs available and the whole internet to look and ask help from, it sure must be nice to be a kid learning programming in todays world.

Re:Visual Studio (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413243)

And Visual Studio coupled with XNA sure sounds better than how we had it back in the day.

Did you have to program in the snow? Uphill? Both ways?

Re:Visual Studio (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413291)

He's just a shill. Any story even halfway related to MS these days is hit by a marketer immediately, with the first comment invariably singing the praises of Visual Studio.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | about 2 years ago | (#41414577)

Why did someone mark the AC flamebait? Did anybody click on the guy's user ID? Personally I hate how the word shill is just thrown at frankly everyone that doesn't drink the koolaid around here but...damn, just damn. Every single post the guy has made has been pumping Visual Studio, Silverlight, and Windows mobile. It reads like somebody working at an Indian support center just going off one of those scripts.

And if anybody at MSFT is reading this? Dude quit with the fucking scripts already, nobody IRL talks like that, okay? Its as bad as the buzzword bingo your marketing drones put out, just laaaammmmeee.

So instead of scripts how about...get ready for this, its high concept time...you MAKE PRODUCTS PEOPLE WANT instead huh, huh? I know, total high concept, be sure to give me credit for the innovation there Ballmer!

Re:Visual Studio (5, Funny)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | about 2 years ago | (#41413737)

Well, back in *my* day, we didn't have any of those fancy, dancy Eye Dee Eees. We soldered together wires to our vacuum tubes from instructions sets carved in clay tablets. That's the way is was and we *liked* it!

Re:Visual Studio (3, Funny)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 years ago | (#41414277)

Wait - you're saying that Heathkit provided clay tablets? Since when?

Hell, back in my day, they tattooed the instructions on the flayed skin of an EE intern and sent that.

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41414399)

try and tell that to kids these days and they won't believe you

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413957)

Yes, but we used pee, so it was fun until the streams froze.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 years ago | (#41414307)

// *sigh*... stupid kids; gotta fix everything for 'em:

public:
virtual void Unlock(
        sUrine,
        nInchesSnow
)

Re:Visual Studio (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about 2 years ago | (#41414481)

Did you have to program in the snow? Uphill? Both ways?

Well, I had to walk to school in the snow, but it was flat, and programming was easy -- my first computer was a slide rule. Those things are uber-easy to program!

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413333)

Learning programming with Visual Studio sucks. Those kids will be braindamaged forever.

Re:Visual Studio (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413385)

The product is free and lacks a lot of very useful/needed things for a full-fledged development environment. Here's the list:

* No profiler support
* No 64-bit compiler (32-bit only)
* No resource editor (important for GUI-based bits)
* No MFC support (some may consider this a good thing, but MFC is still in use today, like it or not)
* No ATL support (less of a concern)

To me, the first 3 are absolute deal-breakers. So effectively what Microsoft has given the world for free is something that barely gets the job done -- and given that model, I would say it would definitely appeal to the same demographic they're advertising Windows 8 development to: college students.

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413471)

* No 64-bit compiler (32-bit only)

The rest is true, but you can compile 64-bit if you install the Windows SDK. It's kind of a pain in the ass, but... hey, free is free.

Re:Visual Studio (5, Interesting)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about 2 years ago | (#41413589)

So effectively what Microsoft has given the world for free is something that barely gets the job done -- and given that model, I would say it would definitely appeal to the same demographic they're advertising Windows 8 development to: college students.

As a college student I take great offense at the thought that pile of kludge is aimed at me. I have only met one person (in meatspace, all others I view with suspicion that it might be Balmer just trolling forums) that tried the windows 8 prerelease and liked it. (before that i thought he was a bit odd anyway but that just cemented it.)

Re:Visual Studio (5, Informative)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 2 years ago | (#41413607)

Your last 3 points are irrelevant for Win8 apps - you don't write them in MFC/ATL, and you don't use Win32 resource files for them. 64-bit is also not needed.

Also, IIRC, there's a basic profiler in 2012 Express.

Re:Visual Studio (2)

genghisjahn (1344927) | about 2 years ago | (#41413765)

Plus, no version of Visual Studio is 64bit.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2516436/visual-studio-64-bit [stackoverflow.com]

Re:Visual Studio (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 2 years ago | (#41413809)

He was referring to the ability to compile 64-bit apps, not to VS itself being 64-bit.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | about 2 years ago | (#41414145)

That may be the case. However, how are we supposed to trust a software company that can't (or won't) create 64 bit versions of their tools at this point in time?

Re:Visual Studio (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41414369)

The stupid - it is strong in you...

Re:Visual Studio (4, Informative)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 2 years ago | (#41413861)

It should be noted that students have access to the full Visual Studio suite, alongside the Expression suite and Windows Server (I think it goes back to 2003 up to 2012) through DreamSpark [dreamspark.com] . I've used it in the past and I have to say this is one of the nice things Microsoft does in comparison to, say, Adobe. Autodesk also provides free educational software, but theirs is branded as such whereas Microsoft's stuff seems like the full Professional versions with no strings attached.

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413993)

It's been awhile since I've checked but installing the Windows Platform SDK gives you both x86 (32-bit) and X64 (64-bit) compilers. Of course, these are command line only tools but it is free. One is free to do the software development and debugging using the IDE with its the x86 compiler. Once the project is running reasonably well in 32-bit mode, it would be a simple task to create the necessary nmake files and re-compile the source code to generate an X64 binary. It could be nicer but it is free.

It's still better than the old days when there were almost no free tools for developing on Windows.

better than nothing (5, Interesting)

rgbrenner (317308) | about 2 years ago | (#41414239)

When I was 13/14 and used win9x and wanted to learn to program, there was no visual studio express at all. Only paid tools costing hundreds of dollars.

So you know what I did?

Switched to Linux.

Even today, I have no idea how to write a Windows program (managed to write a DLL I needed a few years ago though.. using Visual studio express C++).. but I've been writing Linux/BSD software in C for 15 years.

Point is, Visual Studio express may be crap.. but if they had it 15 years ago.. I'm sure I would have learned to program in Windows instead. Might never have switched to Linux at all.

So IMO, it's a smart/critical piece of software from MS. It's a bit much to expect people who are learning to program to immediately spend hundreds of dollars.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

hobarrera (2008506) | about 2 years ago | (#41414437)

I can deal with no profiles, but the second point makes it completey useless, unless you fall into a portal to 2002.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

hobarrera (2008506) | about 2 years ago | (#41414451)

*profiler

Re:Visual Studio (1, Insightful)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about 2 years ago | (#41413481)

Only to grow up locked into an MS language which could be dumped as quickly as Silverlight.

Nice try shill.

Re:Visual Studio (0)

PieLala (2736201) | about 2 years ago | (#41413671)

Dump Silverlight? Well in that case I have good news for you as Silverlight is still widely used and on huge websites. It's not going anywhere.

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Baloroth (2370816) | about 2 years ago | (#41413833)

Dump Silverlight? Well in that case I have good news for you as Silverlight is still widely used and on huge websites. It's not going anywhere.

Haha. HAHAHA!! Way to prove you're not a shill. Haha, that was funny. Oh and since OP was your second post on Slashdot and was posted at the exact same time as the story went live: you're very very definitely a shill, probably a paid one. So... go away, I hear Twitter is nice to your kind.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

zippthorne (748122) | about 2 years ago | (#41414187)

Silverlight is used by Netflix. Are they not a huge website?

Re:Visual Studio (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | about 2 years ago | (#41414327)

Yes. Website, singular. It's the only major site I'm aware of that uses it, which is a really really bad sign for Silverlight. And it only really worked for Netflix (IMO) because there wasn't a lot of serious competition in that field (unlimited streaming in addition to DVD rentals, although those are now split, they weren't at the time), so people could complain, but not really chose another option.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

bmo (77928) | about 2 years ago | (#41413947)

>new account
>come out swinging to support Microsoft in *every* message you post

Shill.

By the way, I believe I already "foed" one of your other "pie" sock-puppet accounts, Mr. PieDode.

--
BMO

"used on huge websites" (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 2 years ago | (#41414095)

Well yeah, it's used by Netflix, and um... well no, the iPad doesn't use it, nor do any of the dedicated hardware devices that support Netflix but. ah...

Sliverlight rules!

*runs away*

Re:Visual Studio (1)

sjames (1099) | about 2 years ago | (#41414155)

I have NEVER run across one.

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413695)

Get over yourself. Language is ultimately unimportant. Learning HOW to design, architect, and program is important. Having access to extensive documentation, code samples, active communities, and a modern IDE will help more people achieve success. And before you say [insert your favorite language here] has all that and is open source; I don't really care. More options for everyone to choose from. You made your choice and have apparently also chosen to be bitter toward others. Good for you. I'll make my choice and not insult other people's choices.

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413707)

Holy Kneejerk Reaction, Batman!

All he said was with the free tools available now, it's easier to learn programming now than 10 years ago. Replace Eclipse with VS, and the statement is just as true... but this is about Windows programming so that would make as much sense.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41414207)

Replace Eclipse with VS

A null operation, since he didn't mention Eclipse.

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413487)

I haven't noticed before, but MS offers free Visual Studio Express nowadays.. And Visual Studio coupled with XNA sure sounds better than how we had it back in the day. And with MSDN docs available and the whole internet to look and ask help from, it sure must be nice to be a kid learning programming in todays world.

Sadly, a lot of the help being asked by people learning to program still seems to be more of the "do my homework for me" type.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

morgauxo (974071) | about 2 years ago | (#41413815)

Have you read MSDN documentation lately? How anyone can cram so much information on a page while answering nothing but the most obvious questions... Yes, it is WAY better than what we had in say the 80s with basica for 'free' or C/Assembler for an arm AND a leg and what is documentation? But I'll take a google search about an OSS friendly language any day over the MSDN docs. Granted, there is a lot of RTFM replies, asking questions in the wrong place, re-asking way too common questions, spam and etc... crap to filter out but once you train your brain to do that OSS forums answer 90% of my questions very quickly. MSDN rarely has the answer to anything I need. disclaimer, I am a C# .NET programmer by day.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

TemporalBeing (803363) | about 2 years ago | (#41413911)

I haven't noticed before, but MS offers free Visual Studio Express nowadays.. And Visual Studio coupled with XNA sure sounds better than how we had it back in the day. And with MSDN docs available and the whole internet to look and ask help from, it sure must be nice to be a kid learning programming in todays world.

They've had Visual Studio Express for a few years now. I think VS2005 or VS 2008 first had it - namely to try to keep people from moving to the GCC Suite on Windows I think. It's okay - the compiler can technically do anything the professional version can; but they set some arbitrary rules within the IDE itself to keep from making certain things - like plug-ins for VS, SCC providers, etc.

Likely shill... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413977)

Parent poster has 1 post outside this thread. All other posts are attached to this article and are in support of MSFT. Likely shill.

Re:Visual Studio (1)

sjames (1099) | about 2 years ago | (#41414083)

Throw in the source code that actually implements the API and the ability to email the person who wrote it directly and you've got yourself a deal! :-)

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41414129)

Well be thankful for the rise of free software, else proprietary stuff would be more pricey,less performant, more difficult to keep up to date without forking money

Re:Visual Studio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41414275)

First, I'd read (and try to understand) the EULA and see if giving away ALL of my rights appeals to me.

How about not screwing your App Store Customers? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413165)

I loved losing apps I paid for on Windows Mobile Marketplace.

NEVER AGAIN.

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (-1)

PieLala (2736201) | about 2 years ago | (#41413203)

Proof? Also Windows Mobile is different than W8 and/or Windows Phone 7/8

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (0)

i kan reed (749298) | about 2 years ago | (#41413295)

I think we have a "reputation manager" here. I'm not certain cause only 3 post history, but it sure seems like.

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 2 years ago | (#41413397)

You spelled shill wrong.

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about 2 years ago | (#41413585)

God, aren't scare quotes enough for you people? Do I have to actively denigrate people I'm not certain of the motivations of?

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 2 years ago | (#41413665)

Letting those folks frame the discussion means letting them win.

Call a spade(shovel) a spade(shovel).

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (2)

i kan reed (749298) | about 2 years ago | (#41413733)

But that's the concern. I have a thing I can barely see the outline of, and it might just well be a rake. Do you really insist I call a rake a spade(ethnic stereotype)?

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 2 years ago | (#41414203)

Spade is not an ethnic stereotype in that saying. It predates the english language.

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (2)

mister_playboy (1474163) | about 2 years ago | (#41414331)

Do you visit often? This pattern of posting has been going on consistently for some time now.

It may be shilling. It may be trolling. One thing it is not, however, is honesty and constructive commentary.

Your objections are naive.

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413403)

Gosh I don't know, May 17th when Windows Marketplace closed and shit I paid for was forcibly uninstalled.

When I called MS about it they told me to "just upgrade", so I did, to an Android device.

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413795)

Windows Mobile is different than W8 and/or Windows Phone 7/8

Yes it is different. It's better.

As for the GP, all of the GPL'ed software I installed on my WinMo 6 phone still works fine. Opera (the only non-GPL'ed software I instsalled on it) too. You should have avoided Windows Mobile Marketplace.

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413953)

"You should have avoided Windows Mobile Marketplace."

You got that right, but I didn't, I was one of the fools who bought into it and got burnt.

I actually see the same problems forming all over again, low number of apps and the ones that are there aren't all that compelling.

So lesson learnt, never again.

Re:How about not screwing your App Store Customers (4, Funny)

morgauxo (974071) | about 2 years ago | (#41413859)

Liar! You must be an anti-microsoft shill. I know because nobody ever bought anything from the Windows Marketplace!

Free VS and... (1)

jasper160 (2642717) | about 2 years ago | (#41413167)

The universtiy my wife works at offers W2k8 for free to its students along with VS.Besides it is better than working at Foxconn.

Technet + Dreamspark (1, Troll)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41413237)

Strange how an article about Microsoft wooing college kids fails to mention technet and dreamspark. VS 2012 and Windows 8 are now on dreamspark for students. Making this stuff available for free is a big boost over Apple, where I have to purchase at least a $500 mac mini to gain access to iOS development tools.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 2 years ago | (#41413273)

Right because no college kids have macbooks.

That'd be unheard of.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (3, Interesting)

sbditto85 (879153) | about 2 years ago | (#41413439)

+1 to above

I'm the college kid, with the macbook pro, in the computer science class.

Surprisingly macbooks are becoming more popular yet our teachers still insist on using MS products and languages. I know in the *real* world there are a lot of MS jobs etc, but there are also a lot of cross platform jobs too (i'm a php developer, dont judge). Drives me nuts when I have to spin up a VM just to use a program thats Windows specific because the requirements for the project/program/lesson are for a windows machine. Some teachers are willing to accept alternatives, but not all.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (3, Funny)

PieLala (2736201) | about 2 years ago | (#41413499)

I'm the college kid, with the macbook pro, in the computer science class.

So you're him!

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (2)

xclr8r (658786) | about 2 years ago | (#41414029)

At my university we keep stats on what students are connecting to our network. As far as wireless connections go trend is now 60% macs to windows laptops. Disclaimer (It's a private institution so that could explain some of the higher apple product numbers)

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (1)

xclr8r (658786) | about 2 years ago | (#41414037)

edit: to 40% windows laptops.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about 2 years ago | (#41413311)

Er, Windows PCs don't come much cheaper than that. Is the complaint here "I need to buy a computer in order to develop software"?

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413415)

No the complaint is the walled garden. With a PC I can write software for any platform (that ever existed) but iOS.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (1, Insightful)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 2 years ago | (#41414565)

If your statemnet = true, then a mac can write software for any platform (that ever existed) and iOS too! Using your logic, mac computer is best computer.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41413421)

Sorry, I didn't realize Mac Minis start at $599, not $500. Desktop PCs start at about $300, with some respectable specs these days (dual core 2.7 Ghz, 4GB RAM is enough for an entry level development machine), and I can build one myself for even cheaper. Can't build a Mac... I guess I could build a hackintosh though, although from my experience with those a couple years ago I wouldn't do it again: many incompatibility issues and eventually completely unusable for iOS development after about a year due to required Xcode/OSX updates.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (1)

Drago3711 (1415041) | about 2 years ago | (#41413451)

Er, Windows PCs don't come much cheaper than that. Is the complaint here "I need to buy a computer in order to develop software"?

No, the complaint here is "I need to buy another computer unrelated to the one for which I want to develop software". When developing for mobile devices you're cross-compiling anyway, so why shouldn't we be able to work in an environment we prefer (linux or windows)?

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (1)

dark12222000 (1076451) | about 2 years ago | (#41413399)

Welcome to programming? Lets you see develop windows applications without buying a 400$+ windows PC, or even Linux applications without a machine that runs Linux. If you buy a mac, all the programming tools are free, all the documentation is free, and you don't even need to show student ID.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41413535)

96% of incoming students have their own computer (at least at my past unis). Yes, disproportionately many have a Mac compared to the general population, but they are usually in the arts and humanities. In computer science (again at the 4 unis I've attended) the vast majority have PCs (as opposed to Macs), and the software the university requires for technical majors (engineering, comp sci) is only provided for Windows. The students most likely to develop for these platforms are those in comp sci and technical programs, who get free access to tech net and dream spark, and who have access to development machines in linux and windows even if they don't have a computer. I've never seen OSX based development machines at any University, as macs usually tend to be in public-facing locations like libraries, and are not set up for development.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (4, Informative)

dark12222000 (1076451) | about 2 years ago | (#41413639)

What University do you go to? CS at my Uni is 80% Macs, 10% Linux machines (disproportionately Ubuntu, for better or for worse), 5% Windows machines, and the rest never bring laptops (and borrow a mac from the Uni to do work on).

Again, all of our software is either on a central server that can be SSH'd to with X access (and thus any machine can be used to get to it), it's cross platform, or it's OS/X or Linux. I can only think of maybe one specific class that you *must* have a windows machine for (and it's like a C# class or something) and even then, I think they meet in a computer lab of Windows machines.

Any mac can be setup for development trivially quickly and easily. I'm not at all a mac fanboy (quite the opposite) but Apple did figure out how to treat their developers well. It wouldn't surprise me if a great amount of Universities are pretty Windows leaning, but it's not the de facto standard by any shot. OS X has a good hold on the Universities (and most programmers) and I strongly suspect it will continue grow. (Personally, they can have my Arch laptop when they can pry it out of my cold dead hands).

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (2)

mrjimorg (557309) | about 2 years ago | (#41413491)

So, instead you have to spend $500 for a cheap PC to build windows apps on? Windows doesn't offer Visual Studio on the Mac just like Apple doesn't offer XCode on Windows. XCode is a free download btw.
Having said that, I've programmed on both environments and this is what I've found:
1. Programming for C# has been a joy. It's easy to go from C,C++ or Java and pick up on what's different. The additional features make sense and are simple to use and well documented. Programming for ObjC has been really ugly- the language is combination of 2 languages in the same way that two cars hitting each other become one - the result is just an ugly mess.
2. Visual Studio Express may be free, but it does have some missing features. For instance, in much older versions of VS you could load in a binary file and look at the bytes in hex. Not true in this latest version. I'm not sure about the $1000 version though.
3. XCode is about as buggy as iTunes. They release version frequently and you can expect the bug that are frustrating you to go away, but you can be sure that newer more annoying ones will appear. One version I downloaded would show you incorrect values in the debugger. Pretty sad.
4. XCode was written for 2 groups of people - 1- those who know nothing about programming, and 2- those who are developers. This means that there are 2 ways of doing everything. These 2 methods are incompatible with each other and the gui is clumsy and confusing.
5. Apple apps crash. I've used a LOT of apps and almost every one of them has crashed at some point. Even the "Settings" program that's part of the phone! This seems to indicate to me that either 1- The IOS environment is flawed, or 2- The programming environment is exceedingly difficult to write to without creating issues that cause it to crash.
In conclusion, in my experience C# has a better environment to program to, and you can now use Mono to run apps on Linux (Free) and Mono-Touch (though very expensive) to port apps to iphone. I makes me almost want to buy a Windows mobile device..... almost, but not quite.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413573)

So, instead you have to spend $500 for a cheap PC to build windows apps on?

$200 is a cheap windows PC. $600 (entry price of mac mini. OP was wrong) is a mid-range PC, and you get a free 360 if you buy a $700 PC. but you do not even have to buy a PC as computer science deparments usually have development machines you can code on, and they typically are not macs.

Re:Technet + Dreamspark (1)

coinreturn (617535) | about 2 years ago | (#41413549)

Once again counting the cost of hardware against iOS development. Fail. You must have computer to develop software. Many college students have macs, FYI.

Quantity over quality? (5, Insightful)

Roobles (1880882) | about 2 years ago | (#41413253)

When I look back at the code I created in college, compared to what I was capable of after a few years of real world development experience... The difference is pretty stark. I understand the get-em-while-they're-young approach, to influence development decisions later in life. But if they're betting the success of their platform on the output of students with limited-to-no real world experience, I fear for the quality of the apps in their store.

Re:Quantity over quality? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413335)

No wonder 99% of FOSS is fucking terrible!

writing software != writing code (2)

peter303 (12292) | about 2 years ago | (#41413661)

In college maybe 80% of the time was spent writing code and 20% in design, testing, fixing bugs, archiving, documentation and sales. In the real world this ratio is reversed. Especially when you count team members whose main duties are non-coding.

Re:writing software != writing code (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413749)

MS is looking for the next Facebook from these students. Unfortunately, my experience with many S products is that, while easy to develop, really try to lock you down on the platform. Even Web applications written by MS enthusiasts usually only work on IE and are then fixed to work on other browsers/platforms. With MS's soft presence in the mobiles, it's tough for a Win mobile app to gain traction.

Re:Quantity over quality? (1)

TemporalBeing (803363) | about 2 years ago | (#41413943)

When I look back at the code I created in college, compared to what I was capable of after a few years of real world development experience... The difference is pretty stark. I understand the get-em-while-they're-young approach, to influence development decisions later in life. But if they're betting the success of their platform on the output of students with limited-to-no real world experience, I fear for the quality of the apps in their store.

Good point. Apple's AppStore generally has very good quality apps. The Google's PlayStore/Android MarketPlace has not; thus if you want to stand out on Android you really have to make a quality app - especially if you want to be paid for it. The same will be true for Microsoft's App Store (whatever they call it). Just stuffing it with apps won't make any difference.

the apps in the store suck (4, Insightful)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41413293)

Literally all of the apps in the windows 8 store suck terribly. I've tried a good portion of them. I don't see how wooing 200k apps out of people who've never built something significant is going to change this fact. I think this is a way of desensitizing future developers with respect to a walled garden app store and closed platform with proprietary tools. nothing good can come of this. For ref i sit in front of visual studio for 5 hours a day at the moment so I'm not some crazy zealot. Crazy perhaps.

Re:the apps in the store suck (1)

fermion (181285) | about 2 years ago | (#41414527)

But now, like the Apple store, the MS Windows store will have 50,000 fart apps, 50,000 track your drinking app, 50,000 rate-your-hooks-up and 50,000 top-pick-up-lines-for-geeks. Right there MS will match the number of apps in the Apple store.

What I notice about the Apps in the store over the past year is the barrier to entry is much greater, not because there are more apps, but because the quality has increased substantially. This is no longer a numbers game. Apple has never been about numbers. Apple never competing with MS based on number of Applications. It competed on key applications, like the spreadsheet, the desktop publishing, the touchscreen.

Qualified Engineers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413355)

I can't see the US behind China and India when it comes to *qualified* engineers. Unqualified, yes. Incompetent, yes. Willing to work for cheap, yes. Qualified, no.

Re:Qualified Engineers? (1)

MNNorske (2651341) | about 2 years ago | (#41413967)

You made the point for me... I have a lot of engineers working from India and the quality of work and experience varies greatly. We get them early, break them in, and when they finally know a bit of what they are doing they leave for something else. Then we're back to the pool fresh from school. It's no different than the US market ten years ago when companies here actually hired people out of school and took the time to train them up. But, now every CIO seems to think they can just "buy" the labor they need when they need it figuring someone else will have trained up folks in the market.

why not free (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413357)

I am surprised microsoft doesn't offer a significant - practically free - discount to university students (branded as a benefit to society of course) surely would increase overall sales and long term buy in. or maybe that would be anti competitive depending on how it was pitched and the official 'intent'

MS did this when I was in College (4, Informative)

stevenfuzz (2510476) | about 2 years ago | (#41413393)

You know, 12 years ago. Not exactly new news. They gave us tons of free development software and tools. It was amazing. Most of it got re-sold on ebay to pay for beer.

Just suck less (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413395)

And all your problems will fix them self.

Who Cares? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413429)

The last computer I bought with any version of Windows was in 2006.

Irrelevant software company woos college kids into writing apps for irrelevant operating system isn't news worthy.

Re:Who Cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413889)

89% of market share is irrelevant?
what exactly IS relevant then?

Stop reinventing the turnign machine! (2)

scorp1us (235526) | about 2 years ago | (#41413431)

And by turning machine, I mean wheel.

I saw Microsoft do it in 2001 with .NET, now they attempt to do it again. It's not a shortage of languages or toolkits. This is about platform lock-in as always. I can understand if PC programming (native apps) and Web apps don't get unified to the vastly different architectures (monolithic PC vs Client/server) , but in this day and age, what is going on?

Why can't I just import the Win8 libraries into Python? Or Java, or .NET (C#)? Or Qt's QML? HTML5 is not a save-all, and I'm ok with that, but why won't we make it easier on each other and admit the emperor is just wearing different clothes. Why for that matter won't WP7 apps run on WP8?

There was a time when MS has tweaks for every program and backwards compatibly was preserved, but those days are long gone. To keep their market share, they have to keep everyone upgrading into the Microsoft corner, fracturing the market place, which sets us back.

Re:Stop reinventing the turnign machine! (4, Informative)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 2 years ago | (#41413645)

Why can't I just import the Win8 libraries into Python? Or Java, or .NET (C#)? HTML5 is not a save-all

Technically, since Win8 libraries - if you mean Windows Runtime (WinRT) - have a well-defined ABI, it's certainly possible to project them to Java or Python. They are already projected to C# and C++, you're not restricted to HTML5/JS (for some reason it seems to be an oft-recurring misunderstanding that you can only write Win8 apps in that - it's completely wrong).

As for Qt, it's a library that does its own widgets down to drawing and input handling. If they want to port it to Win8, they can.

Why for that matter won't WP7 apps run on WP8?

They will. What made you believe otherwise?

Re:Stop reinventing the turnign machine! (2)

Valtor (34080) | about 2 years ago | (#41414011)

...

Why for that matter won't WP7 apps run on WP8?

They will. What made you believe otherwise?

Win7 apps won't run on Windows RT (Windows 8 for ARM CPUs). But yeah they run just fine on Win8 with x86/x64 CPUs.

Re:Stop reinventing the turnign machine! (1)

Shados (741919) | about 2 years ago | (#41414589)

WP7, not Win7. That is Windows Phone 7 -> Windows Phone 8.

Qualified Engineers (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413447)

I've worked with hundreds of Indians over the years, I would not even call most of them compent much less qualified!

Have your best ms programers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413449)

Post youtube tutorials would do more.
All your tips and tricks

Legacy of NeXT's InterfaceBuilder.app? (5, Insightful)

WillAdams (45638) | about 2 years ago | (#41413469)

How much of Apple's App Store success is brought about by the development tools and niceness of Object-oriented programming / interface design?

I'm biased, since for a long while a NeXT Cube was my primary machine (and for a while, I had access to machines running Windows, Mac OS and NeXTstep all w/ similar processor and memory specs), but some of the nicest applications I've ever used began on NeXTstep, and pretty much all the apps I have a real fondness for were heavily influenced by OO-environments (FutureWave Smartsketch which became Flash, but started on Go Corp.'s PenPoint):

  - Altsys Virtusoso (which became FreeHand v4)
  - TeXview.app (TeXshop.app was inspired by it)
  - Lotus Improv
  - Mail.app
  - TouchType.app
  - a bunch of other apps / utilities which no longer exist / are remembered
  - Doom (okay, I'm reaching, but it was initially developed on NeXTstep)

Would there be as many IOS apps if XCode didn't benefit from decades of NeXT/OPENSTEP development and user-interface design work?

William

Re:Legacy of NeXT's InterfaceBuilder.app? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41414507)

Don't forget Diagram! poorly copied as Visio.

Maybe not such a good Idea (5, Insightful)

Vince6791 (2639183) | about 2 years ago | (#41413767)

If you read the Microsoft metro app store policy you will start laughing, especially at "3.2 Your app must not stop responding, end unexpectedly, or contain programming errors", I mean look who's freaking talking here. Windows 1 to Windows 7, office 1 to office 2010, all had and have freaking issues(freezing, crashes, bugs, glitches) xbox 360 hardware failure, and yet they got the balls to tell you not to fuck it up. Shit, how many freaking times my windows 7 kept freezing because i did not set the storage(both winodws & amd SB drivers sucked) configuration from ide compatibility to ahci in the bios while the linux distros had no issues with this.

Microsoft also has the right to cancel your account and wipe all your apps off from the store any time if they think you are not conforming to their policy. For students, learning c & c++ would make it easier for them to adapt other languages much quicker. Writing efficient and inventive Algorithm's is the most important aspect of any programming language.

Doomed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413895)

All you're going to get is a shitty app 99% of the time.

Wait... what? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41413989)

lags behind countries such as India and China in its ability to crank out qualified engineers

Uh... what? This is the first time I've read or heard that statement. Sure, India and China crank out more kids who know how to code Hello World, but they most certainly don't crank out more Engineers, let alone qualified Engineers. I've met plenty of brilliant qualified Engineers from India and China, but they are drowning in a sea of incompetent countrymen-colleagues.

At the AT&T store two days ago... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41414483)

out of curiousity and because I had a 30 minute wait, I decided to have a look at Windows phones they have on display in the store.
There were 5 different devices, I picked one up ... it was crashed.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...