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Progeny Debian 1.0 Released

michael posted more than 13 years ago | from the apt-get-goodness dept.

Debian 167

martins99 writes: "Progeny was released today. It is a commercial dist based on debian but with lots of new stuff which Debian 2.2 (potato) or woody (testing) lacks like: support for 2.4, graphical installation, XFree86 4.02, glibc 2.2. Read more at" Since Stormix is ailing so badly, I hope Progeny can do better...

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Re:Progeny IS Supreme! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#305047)

Had the same problem on my Inspirion (5000 - no E) and that's the reason I'm using storm...finally found a distro that worked the magic foo, only to see them go by-by.

Debian install is easy as Pie. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#305048)

I came to Debian a rank newbie, and was a little
a little apprehnesive because of the install's
I read the install documentation a couple of times
crossed my fingers, and took the plunge.
Too my surprize I found a straight forward install
that went very smooth.
I even managed to install KDE with installer
because it asks you if you want to install any
extra software when you are choosing your packages.
True, I didn't just push a button, and go watch
TV, but after doing it, I kept wondering what all
the fuss was about.

Re:Woody does in fact (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#305049)

blah....nice graphical installer...GRUB included...commercial support...hmmmm...sounds like Mandrake to me.

Want some differences? How about...

  • apt-get doesn't do Mandrake Update's favourite trick: start mysteriously trying to upgrade the same five (up to date) packages every time you run it
  • no need for half-broken ThisDrake and ThatDrake configuration programs, since all configuration is done automagically in package postinst script
  • sane init scripts
  • update-menus actually works.

These are just a few of the reasons I abandoned Mandrake.

Progency Service Network (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#305050)

Simple question - no answer on the site: What will a subscription to the Progency Service Network cost?

they're the same (1)

|_az (87) | more than 13 years ago | (#305051)

They are the same, just a filename extension difference

You burn the .raw images just like you would burn a normal .iso image.


My car is orange, my sig is not.

Re:Progeny (1)

cduffy (652) | more than 13 years ago | (#305053)

You can put 3rd-party sources in your apt.sources list if you want to. Only thing is, if the sources there can't be installed in conjunction with a standard Debian installation (due to library conflicts or whatever else)... well, that's the problem of the alternate source, not Debian or apt-get.

Re:Progeny (2)

noahm (4459) | more than 13 years ago | (#305059)

Apt-get is great if all of your packages come from the same place. I have had problems installing debs from other distributions (tossing WordPerfect on my laptop from my Corel distribution). I don't think that there are easy ways around the problems.

But are the problems you had problems with the actual packages, with the archives themselves, or really with apt-get? I suspect it's more likely that the problems were related to Corel's archive. Perhaps they provided e.g. a version of libc that apt-get interpreted as being "newer". It's not apt-gets fault, it's that Corel didn't intend to make it easy for *Debian* users to get the package, they intended to make it easy for *Corel Linux* users to get the packages.

There are several lists available of unofficial apt sources. apt-get is designed to easily handle many sources, related or not. That doesn't mean it's immune to screwed up archives.


Re:Distro's (1)

enterix (5252) | more than 13 years ago | (#305062)

THANKS! I _still_ like Red Hat better than Debian... especially if I can get few enhancements from VA... ;)

2.4 support? (3)

Psiren (6145) | more than 13 years ago | (#305063)

Last time I looked the 2.4 kernels were in woody. In fact, I downloaded one the other day. So if this is the case I would assume all the other necessary programs have been upgraded to the relavent versions.

Poor business judgment (2)

JoeBuck (7947) | more than 13 years ago | (#305067)

Progeny should have set things up so that you can buy the boxed set a month ahead of it being available online, rather than vice versa (with any last-minute security bugs made available online immediately, as with

This is completely in keeping with the GPL, and would make it more likely that they will collect enough money to pay staff. The free-beer crowd would whine, but without some means of motivating people to pay up, Progeny has even fewer prospects for business success than the fifth dot-com to try to sell you pet food over the net.

Re:Huh? (1)

TrentC (11023) | more than 13 years ago | (#305072)

Debian does only have old packages... Have you recently installed a 2.2R2 system? Kernel 2.2.18? XFree 3.3.6. No version of KDE. Trust me, the lack of KDE keeps a lot of potential users using Mandrake. OpenSSH 1.? XMMS 1.01?

You're right, Debian stable has only older stuff. But if you get into your sources.list file and change "stable" to "unstable" and apt-get dist-upgrade, you get all of the goodies you desire (except for pre-compiled 2.4 kernels, but as someone pointed out, I'm going to recompile my kernel anyway -- and kmake-kpkg makes it pretty painless).

As for the stability of "unstable", well, Red Hat's x.0 releases wish they could be this "unstable". Honestly, when testing freezes (hopefully with a 2.4 kernel) I may just switch my sources.list back to "stable" and forget about needing the latest and greatest stuff every day...

(Yeah, right... who am I kidding? *grin*)

Jay (=

Re:Progeny (2)

SurfsUp (11523) | more than 13 years ago | (#305073)

I have been using Progeny Linux on my Thinkpad since RC2, and I have been very happy with it. I am starting to become a convert to apt-get, even though it does have some very odd little quirks. I think that Progeny needs a little bit of work before it becomes as user friendly as Mandrake 7.2.

Well I am very much a convert to apt-get. There's nothing like thinking of a package you don't have and just apt-get install'ing it. Works very reliably. My main beef is apt-get upgrade asking you every time if you really want to do it - that's just silly and there should at least be a way to configure that feature off.

I briefly used progeny before switching to debian unstable, and I'd recommend it for someone who wants a little handholding. It's a pretty safe way to be close to the bleeding edge. Personally, I like having the 100's of debian maintainers backing me up so I go with the real thing but if you aren't really hard core, Progeny is probably a better idea.

I agree with you about Mandrake - it's really easy to get started with, but doesn't have apt-get. You probably never considered Conectiva, the Brazilian distro but actually I think it's about the smoothest installing and best-configured Linux I've used so far, and it has a version of apt-get modified to use rpm's. Recommended.

I'm never up-to-date on these things (1)

dwlemon (11672) | more than 13 years ago | (#305074)

I just upgraded to Debian 2.2r2 on my new hard drive last week. I went to Progeny's page but at that time they only had a "release candidate".. oh well.

Installing 2.2 was a lot harder than it was to install 2.1 for some reason. Perhaps it was the fact that my old system was so customized and I had to start over with a default (crippled) setup.

Maybe I'll try upgrading to Progeny but I'm sick of installing stuff. And my 28.8 isn't up to a net upgrade.

Re:How open, really? (1)

eostrom (14923) | more than 13 years ago | (#305078)

This isn't interesting unless the page actually doesn't work on other browsers. The name they give their "everything but IE" stylesheet is just not that important.

Re:I hope it suceeds (2)

HiThere (15173) | more than 13 years ago | (#305079)

There's fake FUD and there's real FUD. To me this doesn't sound like either, but more of a personal preference. Which is fair.

OTOH, don't denegrate someone just because he is experiencing FUD. Real FUD exists, and is hard to get through.

The problem is so many fakers exist. It's the fakery that's the problem. And generally, though they spread FUD, they aren't even claiming to be experiencing it.

Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.

ppp? (2)

HiThere (15173) | more than 13 years ago | (#305080)

I'm not a Debian user, so I don't know. I've had problems with kernel upgrades removing ppp support (or maybe they just leave it so broken that it won't run... no difference to me). Do apt-get installs have this problem? It can be a bit hard to recover from. (Well, actually, I've always ended up going back to the prior kernel, and usually back to the CD.)

Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.

Alternative uses (3)

Grond (15515) | more than 13 years ago | (#305082)

One of the coolest things that can be done with Progeny is upgrade straight to "real" debian, since Progeny is (AFAIK/can tell) completely debian compatible. A simple sources.list edit and a somewhat lengthy apt-get update/upgrade later and bang! regular debian, with the benefit of a really keen graphical installer and a lot of the major packages already installed.

Even so, Progeny itself is quite cool, especially the commercial support aspects. Hopefully they can succeed where (in some sense) Storm Linux failed.

(interesting test of the strength of the apt/dpkg system: switch from progeny to unstable to stable and all the way back and see if stuff still works stably....)

Re:new and broken (2)

Chris Pimlott (16212) | more than 13 years ago | (#305083)

It's there. Along with X 4.x which is incompatable with all but the most expensive newest cards.

That's funny, it works fine with my old Matrox Millennium [] and the Chips & Technology 65550 [] in my old Libretto...

For the record... (5)

Chris Pimlott (16212) | more than 13 years ago | (#305084)

Debian Woody (aka testing) does have support for 2.4 kernels, glibc 2.2 [] and XFree86 4.0.2 [] .

It is correct that none of these are in Potato. However, there are unofficial packages for running 2.4 kernels [] and XFree86 4 [] in Potato, both provided by Debian developers.

Which 2.4 kernel is in Woody? (2)

cpeterso (19082) | more than 13 years ago | (#305085)

I'm thinking of moving from Potato to Woody, but I can't find which kernel version Woody uses.


Eh? (1)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 13 years ago | (#305086)

Wow. You must be smart, I bet they didn't know that!

Seriously. They just don't *care*. Or maybe it's that they only test with ie & netscape.. and the netscape one does okay for otehr browsers.

All it says is they called the second stylesheet for non-MS browsers 'nn_global.css'. It doesn't say 'if you don't have netscape, fuck off'

Besides.. I bet they don't care anyway.

Really? (2)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 13 years ago | (#305087)

Why not? It *IS* debian. It's 100% debian compatable, they just provide some extra packages to do things that are a pain with debian.

Really, it's just a pre-set confiuration of debian.

Re:Upgrading from potato? (2)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 13 years ago | (#305088)

It's not really an upgrade, just a new set of apt-sources and some neat packages for building a nice coherent desktop.

4.0 is a major problem (1)

bliss (21836) | more than 13 years ago | (#305089)

Why can't the X people be bothered to actually include support for the older cards that they said they would put back into the original source? My S3 Trio64 chip isn't supported and therefore prevents the newly hyped release.

Re:It is targetted as home beginner (1)

reaper20 (23396) | more than 13 years ago | (#305090)

I tried Progeny Beta 3 but unfortunately, ppp didn't work 'out of the box', I guess I just used to being pampered, anyone know if there is a 'dial-up workstation' option during install?

Re:new and broken (2)

Fluffy the Cat (29157) | more than 13 years ago | (#305094)

Along with X 4.x which is incompatable with all but the most expensive newest cards.

Pretty much the only vaguely common cards that XFree 4 doesn't support are the old S3 Trios (not the Trio3D, which is supported). Still, if you do own some ancient crufty thing, the Debian packagers have thoughtfully included modified XFree 3 packages that only support the cards that XFree 4 doesn't.

Note that pretty much every cheap graphics card on the market for the past 5 years is supported by XFree 4. Note also that the new Vesa driver in XFree 4 means that pretty much every graphics card on the planet is supported to some degree, something that wasn't true under XFree 3.

Re:It is targetted as home beginner (1)

ajakk (29927) | more than 13 years ago | (#305096)

Actually, it is targeted for use in networked workstations. It works well as a distro for beginners, but Progeny wants to be able to create clusters of workstations.

Re:KDE2? (2)

ajakk (29927) | more than 13 years ago | (#305097)

It has an older version of KDE 2.0. It is really targeted to working with Gnome, not KDE. KDE doesn't come installed by default, but you can easily install it using apt-get.

Progeny (3)

ajakk (29927) | more than 13 years ago | (#305098)

I have been using Progeny Linux on my Thinkpad since RC2, and I have been very happy with it. I am starting to become a convert to apt-get, even though it does have some very odd little quirks. I think that Progeny needs a little bit of work before it becomes as user friendly as Mandrake 7.2.

Re:Progeny (3)

ajakk (29927) | more than 13 years ago | (#305099)

Apt-get is great if all of your packages come from the same place. I have had problems installing debs from other distributions (tossing WordPerfect on my laptop from my Corel distribution). I don't think that there are easy ways around the problems. You really just have to get used to how apt-get does things. I was very happy that I could upgrade from Progeny RC2 to Progeny Release (53 package updates) with one command.

Huh? (3)

expunged (30314) | more than 13 years ago | (#305100)

I don't know what debian you're using (you're probably not), but I run nothing but debian and I have kernel 2.4, glibc 2.2, and X 4.0. All from debian packages (the kernel was source, but compiled using make-kpkg).

It is nice to see a "friendlier" debian-based distro "for the masses" but that doesn't excuse people from the usual "debian is slow" and "debian only has OLD packages" crap.


Re:Difference between .raw and .iso (1)

Flower (31351) | more than 13 years ago | (#305101)

Change .raw to .iso and burn away.

I have no clue why they do that. It's like when they released RC2 and named the installation diskettes *.img instead of .bin. rawrite wouldn't recognize the extension. And nothing in the release notes to explain it either.

A newbie shouldn't feel the need to call Miss Cleo on something like that.

Re:How open, really? (1)

Flower (31351) | more than 13 years ago | (#305102)

Funny, I find it more interesting that, if you accept the default, Opera 5.0b7 for linux it will identify itself as IE5.0. Considering that isn't preventing me from browsing the web and Progeny's site isn't booting me I don't see what the big deal is.

Re:How open, really? (1)

generic-man (33649) | more than 13 years ago | (#305103)

The name of the university which I attend is "Carnegie Mellon." Please be sure to follow proper hyphenation and capitalization rules in the future.

You may, if you wish, refer to such orthographical conventions as "hyphecap." This will save some typing in the future.

Upgrading from potato? (1)

LinuxTek (36519) | more than 13 years ago | (#305104)

According to their download page, you can even upgrade from an existing debian installation (in this case, 2.2 potato).

However, why would I want to do that? I'm happy with debian, and actually I no longer have potato, since I'm using woody to get X4.02 and KDE2.1.

Please someone enlighten me.

Re:No troll: they will fail within four months (1)

Malcontent (40834) | more than 13 years ago | (#305105)

Oh I thought is was here []

good try but... (1)

Juln (41313) | more than 13 years ago | (#305106)

Sorry, tell that to the folks working on Khtml!
Recently konqueror has gained an option allowing you to use the mozilla engine to render pages, instead of khtml, but anyhow, you are mistaken about konqueror, right about galeon.

Wrong (2)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 13 years ago | (#305108)

Progeny is to Stormix like a modern distro is to slackware. It's just taking what was good of Stormix and making it better, while changing the negative things.

Being that Stormix doesn't exactly exist as a commerical entity, Progeny effectively replaces it.


This is new? (3)

RubberDuckie (53329) | more than 13 years ago | (#305111)

Interesting, I'm running sid with a 2.4.2 kernel and XFree 4.02. Still, it will be nice to see improvements in the Debian installer. The Debian installations have always been a bit 'rough'. Once you get it working however, keeping updated with apt-get is a piece of cake (well, mostly). I figure I spend much more time keeping a working system updated, than I do installing one, so I really appreciate apt.

This should make convincing the PHB's that Debian is a viable solution vs. RedHat. Now, we have a vendor to go to for Debian as well. It's not a selling point to me, but the bosses seem to like the fact that a Linux distributions is 'supported'.

Can I go back to potato? (3)

game (62990) | more than 13 years ago | (#305112)

I mean if I upgrade to Progeny, and decide to go back to plain old potato can I do that? Or can I go back to testing(woody) from which it was created?

I'd really like to check it out, but I also want safe path back.

It is targetted as home beginner (3)

hub (78021) | more than 13 years ago | (#305121)

What the article does not show is that Progeny is aimed at simplifying Debian GMU/Linux distribution so that beginners can simply use. Consider it as a MandrakeDebian :-)

Ah and to provide commercial support on Debian based system, which is not a bad idea.

Re:default wm/desktop (1)

1%warren (78514) | more than 13 years ago | (#305122)

Full plate and packing steel! -Minsc

The differnce between Progeny & Woody (1)

1%warren (78514) | more than 13 years ago | (#305123)

Is that Progeny isn't missing little bits here & there. Did an apt-get dist-upgrade Potato-->Woody ~2 days ago - debconf slang frontend broken, X configuration broken.... Potato-->Progeny went smooth as silk. Doing an apt-get upgrade to 1.0 at the moment. N.B. a developer in #progeny reccommended adding:
deb updates/newton/
to /etc/apt/sources.list
Full plate and packing steel! -Minsc

Re:I hope it suceeds (2)

ArtDent (83554) | more than 13 years ago | (#305124)

...I think it's text based installation is a pain in the ass (and I'm not even a newbie - I started with slackware many years ago).

If you find that the instructions are unclear, the choices ambiguous, the order illogical, or something like that, I could see the problem. But, the only "problem" you describe is that it's text based.

Why is that a problem? What is so intimidating about a text interface? It's still got buttons and menus -- it's not like you have to edit configuration files. Does the average new user even know what the difference between text mode and graphics mode is?

I've always thought that this obsession with installers that run in graphics mode has been a red herring.

Re:It is targetted as home beginner (1)

billyhoward (98385) | more than 13 years ago | (#305127)

Speaking of mandrake, cheack out the new mandrakefreq iso. Nice release to tide you over till mandrake 8.0 comes out. I tried the progeny beta and it would lock up during install, so i got that beast, and its quite nice.

Re:It is targetted as home beginner (1)

billyhoward (98385) | more than 13 years ago | (#305128)

I couldnt get 8.0 beta 3 to install either, i too have a scsi card, ill have to try taking it out. Its a tekram 395uw or something. I think if you find something comparing redhat to debian it would mostly aplly to mandrake too, at least for file locations and such. Other than that, how you like mandrake so far?

Progeny is a very good thing (2)

steveha (103154) | more than 13 years ago | (#305130)

Progeny is just a particular set of packages for Debian, with a nice installer. This is a very good thing.

The Progeny guys don't support the full 3000+ packages available for Debian. (Right now if you were to burn CDs for the latest version of Debian it would take 4 CDs to hold all the packages; Progeny fits on a single CD.) They have put together a working, tested set of packages that make a pretty darn nice installation, and they will keep it up to date. For many people Progeny will provide them with everything they will ever need.

Since Progeny is still Debian, you can easily add packages from the main Debian distribution if you want something that Progeny doesn't provide. And if you ever tire of Progeny or they ever disappear, you can just switch smoothly over to using the main Debian distribution. So there really is no down side to choosing Progeny.

And, by the way, Progeny is donating all their new stuff back to the Debian community. So the improved installer should find its way to Debian. (Probably not for the Woody release, but the one after that should have it.)

For my friends who get interested in Linux, I am burning Progeny CDs and giving them away.


Re:Can I go back to potato? (5)

steveha (103154) | more than 13 years ago | (#305133)

I'd really like to check it out, but I also want safe path back.

The important thing about Progeny is this: it is Debian.

They didn't screw anything up or glue in something proprietary. It's just a particular set of Debian packages with a nice installer.

Thus, once you have Progeny set up, you can point your sources.list file at a Debian mirror, and start using apt-get against the Woody package set, and you are using Woody.

Their installer does create a few icons on the desktop that say Progeny, but if you were really gung-ho about having a non-Progeny Woody system you could delete those.

As for going back to Potato, it would be just the same as taking a Woody system back to Potato. I have never done it but it would be possible. Just point sources.list at a Potato package set, and use apt-get to get the Potato packages. You will have to force apt-get to "downgrade" since the versions of the packages will be older, but that functionality is supported. It would be something of a pain, and I don't know why you would bother; I'm running Woody unstable and I'm extremely happy with it.


Re:default wm/desktop (1)

ArtPepper (106669) | more than 13 years ago | (#305134)

gnome or kde.

it's on the website.

Re:It is targetted as home beginner (1)

emir (111909) | more than 13 years ago | (#305135)

i switched yesterday from debian (been using debian since 1.3.1) to mandrake (8.0 beta 3). mandrake install crashed several times during install and installed first after i pulled out my scsi card. it seems that it was missdetecting my scsi card and trying to load wrong drivers.
now to my question :), do you know any web resources / docs that contain list of differences between mandrake and debian ? i'm feeling kinda lost. lots of things are slightly different and i feel like i dont have any control over my system.

default wm/desktop (1)

emir (111909) | more than 13 years ago | (#305136)

anyone knows what default desktop/wm progeny is using? i've been trying to find some info about that on their site but couldnt find any.

Watching the Slashdot effect in action (1)

zniper (117838) | more than 13 years ago | (#305139)

Started downloading the ISOs with 220kb/s, currently half that and dropping. Wonder how fast it'll be in five minutes time when more readers start downloading ;)

Re:what about ReiserFS (2)

autechre (121980) | more than 13 years ago | (#305140)

There are 2 projects, both of which provide Debian installer disks with support for Reiserfs. Yes, they're Potato disks, but there are no "woody" disks yet anyway; you'll have to install potato and apt-get dist-upgrade no matter what.

Sotto la panca, la capra crepa

According to (4)

autechre (121980) | more than 13 years ago | (#305141)

Woody(testing) does have XFree 4.02, and glibc 2.2. And while there are no kernel-image packages for 2.4, the kernel certainly works just fine (and really, I wouldn't use anything other than a custom-compiled kernel anyway).

That being said, I see Progeny as a definite Good Thing. Personally, I don't have any problems with the Debian installer, but I understand that some people do; different people approach things from different directions(thus explaining the many window managers in the *nix world). From my experience, Debian is much easier to keep up-to-date once it is installed than any RPM-based distribution, and if more people find that it's also easy to install, great.

Sotto la panca, la capra crepa

Re:Difference between .raw and .iso (3)

Cloud K (125581) | more than 13 years ago | (#305142)

XCDRoast uses .raw files... in fact, it won't see anything else. You could say they provided Progeny as .raw to avoid questions about how to record an ISO file in xcdroast - but then, everyone else in the world will be asking them how to burn a .raw file *shrug*

I wish people would agree to the same extension!
I also wish they'd stick to the same boot procedure (SysV?), but that's a different story.

Re:KDE2? (1)

Mr.Phil (128836) | more than 13 years ago | (#305143)


RedHat 7, w/ all upgrades, 2.4.2, XFree86 4.0.3 and KDE2.1.1 compiled from CVS

works fine on my two linux machines, no problems at all.

Libranet URL (2)

Jagasian (129329) | more than 13 years ago | (#305144)

For those who want user-friendly slashdot posts, here is a link to Libranet's site: []

Re:Progeny (2)

Drone-X (148724) | more than 13 years ago | (#305149)

My main beef is apt-get upgrade asking you every time if you really want to do it - that's just silly and there should at least be a way to configure that feature off.
I have the habit of typing "apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade -y", this way I don't have to sit by the keyboard to answer "y".

Re:Progeny (2)

Drone-X (148724) | more than 13 years ago | (#305150)

You can install pacakes from other sources as long as those sources behave, if they have packages with names identical to ones from the official Debian sources then those packages should provide the same files, have the same dependencies and correct version number, etc.

For a list of unofficial sources see urces/ [] .

Re:Wrong (2)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 13 years ago | (#305151)

Running 'make install' on Mandrake installs the various files to /boot. Isn't that where they're supposed to go?

Re:Wrong (1)

Twisted Mind (155678) | more than 13 years ago | (#305152)

Actually, I liked Storm. I moved from SuSe to Storm (and Debian on my other box) because of it. Bof apt-get, deb etc., my Storm installation is slightly transformed in an Debian installation, there's not much difference anyway.

Re:Wrong (2)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 13 years ago | (#305153)

Progeny is to Stormix like a modern distro is to slackware.

Are you saying slackware is not a modern distro? I am sorry but nobody can contest that slackware has the best free support system anywhere. It offers new packages in binary format sooner than almost any other distro (even though most slackers compile themselves). And slackware follows standards better than any of your "modern" distros! It is like one of the only systems where you can install the linux kernel with "make install" instead of copying it to some silly place Linus doesnt intend it to be in.

Slackware not a modern distro. Go boil your bottom you stupid son of a silly person. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time-e!

Re:Progeny IS Supreme! (1)

King_B (161639) | more than 13 years ago | (#305154)

FYI - I have been using debian 2.2 potato from images followed by upgrade to woody on my 5000e without a problem since day 0.

Re:Progeny (1)

lonenut (165873) | more than 13 years ago | (#305155)

I installed Progeny beta, and everything worked great. The install went very well, and I was extremely happy.

However, when I used apt-get to uprade to RC1 it tried to upgrade the running kernel. Being new to Debian I followed the warning and cancelled the kernel update, but was surprised to find that doing this cancelled the remainder of the upgrade as well.

Being a bonehead I restarted the upgrade and agreed to the kernel update. Everything appeared to update ok, but upon my next reboot I found that none of the kernel modules I had been using with the initial install were available to the new kernel. At this point I powered off and decided to wait for the production release.

My question to the Debian folks is: What did I do wrong, and can I fix the system or should I just install again?

Woody does in fact (3)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 13 years ago | (#305156)

Have everything the poster listed except for the graphical installer and that is being worked on. Nonetheless good job. This will make commercial support for Debian improve which when trying to sell a client on it is an important. Thing. Also GRUB is nice very nice.

Re:Watching the Slashdot effect in action (1)

martins99 (168363) | more than 13 years ago | (#305157)

Use the mirrors! For people in Europe the mirror rocks.. I downloaded the iso's at 20Mbit :)

So can you use kernel 2.4 from installation? (2)

Rushmore (172963) | more than 13 years ago | (#305158)

So what does Kernel 2.2.18 (2.4 option included) really mean? Can we install kernel 2.4 from the distribution?

I hope it suceeds (3)

felipeal (177452) | more than 13 years ago | (#305162)

I've been using Mandrake for years now and, although it's a good distribution, it's hard to upgrade the big guys (like X 4.0.3 or kde 2.1.1). I recently tried debian 2.2 to try out the famous apt-get, but I think it's text based installation is a pain in the ass (and I'm not even a newbie - I started with slackware many years ago). In my opinion, a distro with an easy installation system and a smooth way to upgrade is the way to go. Will Progeny do it? I hope so...

KDE2? (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#305163)

Anyone know what version of KDE this thing is running? KDE2? I tried to get details from the website but couldn't find a package list.

If it has KDE2 I'm game.

Re:KDE2? (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#305164)

As an aside, has anyone been able to install KDE 2.0 or 2.1 to RedHat 7.0 without crashing the system on startup?

Debian Installer (3)

wytcld (179112) | more than 13 years ago | (#305165)

Where the Debian installer is especially rough is if your install skids off the straight-and-narrow path it hopes to find. For instance, if it doesn't see your network card (maybe it wasn't supported in the included kernel modules) it halts setting stuff up in the middle, with no option to override this and no option to restart at that point (say, after you compile a module for the card). The maintainer replies to suggestions for improving this with "Whatever it doesn't do is purposely unsupported."

I've nothing against non-GUI installs, but I'm all against routines that are inflexible and brittle - that fail in the (not so) exceptional cases. That, and developers who think the exceptional cases are the user's fault. Difficult to walk into a client's shop to do a new install using Debian, when you know you might end up looking dumb and swearing at the machine if it happens to be hardware for which the Debian install derails; at least with Red Hat you know, despite the trade-off in long-term maintainability, you're going to look efficient as you install it. So I'd say putting a solid installation routine on the front of Debian could just be brilliant.

Distro's (1)

august70 (209266) | more than 13 years ago | (#305166)

I recently found on Va-linux's site there nice little fixed up version of Red Hat 6.2,
Which they are calling
"Red Hat Linux 6.2.4 with VA Linux"
Va-Linux []

Dammit, not another stupid GUI?! (1)

bziman (223162) | more than 13 years ago | (#305167)

I've been running linux for years now, started with Slackware, upgraded to Red Hat "'cause that's what everyone else has". After trying to upgrade from Red Hat 5.2 to Red Hat 6.0 and watching my machine fry on the same level as a Windows upgrade, I decided to switch to Debian. The only glitch I had was that the book I bought had a bad install CD... so I downloaded the Potato CD image from a Debian mirror, and had not another second of trouble. Installing an OS shouldn't be mind-numbingly simple... if it is, that means that it will invariably do something mind-numbingly wrong. If I wanted cutesy easy crap, I'd stick with Red Hat or Windows. I don't and I won't.


Re:not enough. (1)

mbanck (230137) | more than 13 years ago | (#305168)

doesnt seem there is enough extra to make it worth paying for, but what is these days. =]

I guess I'll buy it for the fact alone that they hired several Debian "Senior" Developers like Branden. Thanks to them, those can now work on Debian-related stuff 24/7. And they give back their enhancements to the community.

quick question.... (1)

SGDarkKnight (253157) | more than 13 years ago | (#305173)

what kind of software support does it have? can't say i've used it much, so im just a little curious.

Re:Progeny ---DEBIAN--- (1)

Quietti (257725) | more than 13 years ago | (#305178)

Calling it Progeny Debian makes perfect sense given that Ian Murdoch (yes, the Ian who started Debian) is behind Progeny. Also, it clearly identifies the distribution as being Debian-based, as opposed to being yet another Red Hat derivative.


Re:I hope it suceeds (1)

IanA (260196) | more than 13 years ago | (#305180)

I first used debian when I was 12, with Debian 2.0. Stop with the FUD when it's your own damn fault.

Re:According to (1)

IanA (260196) | more than 13 years ago | (#305181)

ultima:~# apt-cache search 2.4 | grep kernel | wc -l 45

Whats missing in woody? (1)

IanA (260196) | more than 13 years ago | (#305182)

ultima:~# apt-cache showpkg xfree86-common
Package: xfree86-common
4.0.2-13(/var/lib/apt/lists/ ian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages)(/var /lib/dpkg/status)

ultima:~# apt-cache showpkg libc6 | more
Package: libc6
2.2.2-4(/var/lib/apt/lists/ an_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages)(/var/ lib/dpkg/status)

and kernel 2.4 support
ultima:~# apt-cache search kernel 2.4 | wc -l

Two points on that (1)

Niscenus (267969) | more than 13 years ago | (#305183)

First, most distros tend to add a little something to the kernel to help the system work better as whole, not unlike the NSA release 2.2 SE. This is especially noticable when some creates a worm that only effects distros using those specifications, usually with Red Hat and its descendants.

Second, thought Woody does use 2.4, it's not the "officially stable" release of 2.4, and those test implementations combined with the test implementations from Debian for the system as whole does cause the overall distribution of Woody to experience problems, and often with the graphical X-drivers.

Err...not that I didn't hear that from me...I'm a Red Hat man...yeah....

So...who's up for volleyball!?

Bug left-over from the days of Mosaic (1)

Niscenus (267969) | more than 13 years ago | (#305184)

The last development before MS bought that cute toy from Spy Glass was the continuous page recognition ability. As a result, bug or not, the scroll bar causes some script information to misplace. No biggie really, unless you'd prefer to believe it's a MS conspiracy to prevent you from contacting people in the world of Linux...

Suggestion (1)

Niscenus (267969) | more than 13 years ago | (#305185)

You could search slashdot for an article about "journaling file systems." There was an article, I don't think even two months ago, that discussed which distros have provided, recently provided, and will be providing similar file systems like ReiserFS.

Double Wrong... (1)

Niscenus (267969) | more than 13 years ago | (#305186)

Stormix is commercial, and Slackware is Phat. Now, that we have that out of the way, who's up for golf?

Well, there's something you can do (1)

Niscenus (267969) | more than 13 years ago | (#305187)

Next time you install any distro that dual-boots to windows, you need to make an adjustment to Scandisk. Under "advance", click "Prompt before fixing errors. Then, when it asks if you want to fix an error the master boot record, click NO! If you don't, you will lose your ability to goto Linux.
Worry not, for someone, somewhere, is finding a way to trick Scandisk into allowing the changes created by LiLo or GRUB.

M$-affiliated & a moron? (1)

Niscenus (267969) | more than 13 years ago | (#305188)

I'm sure that's redundant.
Reference: Any Ziff-Davis article that made it to Slashdot.

Don't feel stupid (2)

Niscenus (267969) | more than 13 years ago | (#305189)

This is a common mistake to new linux users, as well as, people doing their first dual-boot with Windows. I've been using Linux since Red Hat 4.0, but when I tried a dual boot on Windows, I got Scandisk-scammed myself twice. That's when I learned the importance of backing up partition tables and making boot disks and recovery disks, even for "toy boxes," if you get my drift.

I've just run scandisk so I can show exactly what you can expect and recognize the "I hate Linux" warning signs. This will appear as a slightly smaller window (dialogue box) over the main window of scandisk.

ScanDisk Found an Error on Local Disk (C:)____[?] [X]
________________________________________________ __ ___
This drive's boot area contains important information that is damaged
or invalid. This can cause Windows to report the drive's free space
incorrectly or slowly. ScanDisk repairs the boot area by recording the
correct values in this area

O Repair this error.
O Ignore this error and continue.

[___OK___] [_CANCEL_]

Click, of course, Ignore, and it'll come up telling you, "Scandisk found errors on this disk, but did not fix all of them," followed by your disks statistics. That is nothing to worry about, because neither LiLo or GRUB are errors;)

Happy computing,
.oO(By Linus, I actually just said that...By Linus, I just said "By Linus!")


Here Here! (3)

Niscenus (267969) | more than 13 years ago | (#305190)

Progeny is to Debian what Mandrake is to Red Hat. Doesn't make it worse or better, and if you've been updating properly, you should be around 2.4.2 with X 4.2. In my opinion, Debian is the fullfillment of the ideals of the GNU Project, and, quite frankly, pretty darn good one. Furthermore, there ARE several groups developing a graphical install for those who are a little slower on the pick up.

Though, I guess it's hard to answer the question, "What kind of tech support does it have," with, "There are people all around the world with way too much time on their hands willing to help out on USENET and bboards scattered throughout the Linux world."
As I read at an anti-linux site*, PHB's seem to be looking for someone to sue.

*two friends of mine seem to enjoy sending me tidbits from anti-linux sites. that's not as bad as "Microsoft's PenguiNT"...

Re:Not for me (1)

Glanz (306204) | more than 13 years ago | (#305191)

Good luck on the Peanut Installation. I couldn't stop it from deferring to Windows; I mean the double boot worked once or twice, then it bowed to windows as if the mbr were totally ignored; as if it were designed by Gates to discourage potential Linux users. Look, just do a "minimal" Debian installation. Go get it piece by piece from the Debian site. You'll be better off.

Re:Progeny is dying... (1)

Glanz (306204) | more than 13 years ago | (#305192)

The reason for there being fewer BSD posts in user groups is simple: there are fewer problems with BSD. No problem=no post. Therefore, following your line of "flying-by-your-balls" logic, Mandrake posts are higher au prorata to the number of its confused users. You don't hear any screaming fron the BSD side of Geekdon not because it's dead, but because it isn't in pain like any Linux distro not based on Debian. And as far as Red Hat goes. I'll leave that for the money makers and center-of-the-universe servers of porno sites and used car salesmen with web sites.

something you can do (besides feeling stupid) (1)

Glanz (306204) | more than 13 years ago | (#305193)

I don't know how to thank you, even though I'm feeling kinda dumb right now. I have been so trained by M$ (like a little doggy) to click YES to something that seems as drastically important as fixing errors (such as not wanting to use Windows), I just did it automacially, like an idiot trying to solve a problem that didn't exist. Thank you again! This has brought to mind hundreds of similar errors on my part. Never again.... Yours truly (stupid), Glanz

the Ximian of distros (1)

tortap-0 (306464) | more than 13 years ago | (#305195)

I think this is great news. It was to bad that Corel Linux wasn't a hit, more people should be basing their distro on Debian instead of RedHat. Debian is to distros what Gnome is for desktops. Ximian and Eazel is building ontop and making Gnome better for all, giving almost everone what they wants be it a better free desktop or commersial support.

Although Mandrake seemingly does a helluva job making a desktop RedHat they are also competitors. No one is a competitor to Debian, you can only add to Debian much like you can only add to Gnome, you are taking away users perhaps but that doesn't matter that much for the debian developers. The worst thing that could happen with Progeny is that not enough debian developer gets paid to work on it but thats OK, they didn't get paid before either.

Re:the Ximian of distros (1)

tortap-0 (306464) | more than 13 years ago | (#305196)

I said you can only add. You can't take anything away. Even if they didn't give away their software (that they rightfully own) they will make debian better by making sure packages work and are updated, otherwise they will go out of business.

Some might see this as profiting on other peoples work, but that is the very idea with GPL software. I see it as they will only make money on the added value they provide over debian. Besides no one is making lots of money selling CDs with any dist, it's the services that generate the income.

what about ReiserFS (1)

thopo (315128) | more than 13 years ago | (#305198)

Does Progeny support first time installation on ReiserFS (like SuSE does)?
Is there actually any other distro than SuSE that lets you install on ReiserFS?

Re:I hope it suceeds (1)

whanau (315267) | more than 13 years ago | (#305199)

Ive also been using mandrake for a while. The easiest way to upgrade the big guys i.e kde2.1.1 is to skip the rpm upgrade command. just uninstall kde ignoring any errors and replace it with fresh mdk packages. load upyour old .kde directory and it will work in no time

Progeny IS Supreme! (3)

kerneljacabo (320052) | more than 13 years ago | (#305201)

I've been using Progeny since beta 2 on my Dell Inspiron 5000e. Yes you heard right, Dell Insipron 5000e. I tried every distro out there and sent bug reports to every company. There was a problem with X compatability with my Video Chipset. Progeny was the only company that gave a damn to work with me on fixing the bug with their distro. Frankly, I'm disappointed at Red Hat. BTW, thanks ian and branden from progeny for giving a damn to help users. PROGENY KICKS SOME SERIOUS ASS, ESPECIALLY WITH HELIX GNOME!

Our Salvation has arived. (1)

modman (321805) | more than 13 years ago | (#305204)

now we may all be a part of the best distobution on the planet!!

no more $$Red Hat$$ or mandrake(which never seems to work the way it is intended to.) or all the so-so distros out there.

I am so excited!!

Thank-you Ian!

Re:Progeny is dying... (1)

modman (321805) | more than 13 years ago | (#305205)

ok...can some one please kick this trolls ass?

He has got to be from M$ and a moron to because this is the exact same post made about a week ago refering to linux insted of progeny.

Re:you'll be modded down for this (1)

modman (321805) | more than 13 years ago | (#305206) theory Communism works, unfortunatly when you reach the dictatorship of the proletariot you run into a nasty thing called human nature. I mean how would you expect a person to take complete control over a society to guide it to the true communist dream and when it is reached, just step down and let society go about its merry way?

Re:Why is this insightful? (1)

Tech187 (416303) | more than 13 years ago | (#305211)

There was support for the Trio64 cards in earlier versions of XFree. Nobody is asking the maintainers to add new hardware. The request is rather that they not break support for existing hardware.

I know it used to work, because back in the day I specifically bought an STB card that had a Trio64 chip on it in order to run X.

not enough. (1)

pr0nomatic (441866) | more than 13 years ago | (#305212)

doesnt seem there is enough extra to make it worth paying for, but what is these days. =]
the pr0n-o-matic. []
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