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Apple Reportedly Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs

timothy posted about a year ago | from the cash-grass-or-apps dept.

Businesses 334

TechCrunch reports that Apple, facing a substantial backlash (and some snarky competitive advertising) over goofs in the mapping software included in iOS 6, is going after the problem with a hiring spree. Here's TechCrunch's lead: "Apple is going after people with experience working on Google Maps to develop its own product, according to a source with connections on both teams. Using recruiters, Apple is pursuing a strategy of luring away Google Maps employees who helped develop the search giant’s product on contract, and many of those individuals seem eager to accept due in part to the opportunity Apple represents to build new product, instead of just doing 'tedious updates' on a largely complete platform." Meanwhile, writes reader EGSonikku "Well known iOS hacker Ryan Perrich has gotten the iOS5 Google Maps application to run on iOS6 using 'a little trickery.' (YouTube demonstration.) He has not released it yet due to crashing issues but states 'it mostly works.'"

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334 comments

No thanks (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431287)

I for one am not interested in working for Zombie Steve.

Re:No thanks (4, Funny)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year ago | (#41431525)

Come on, think of the awesome sales pitch these guys are getting. "Don 't be Evil"? Screw that. Come to the dark side. You have no idea of the full financial advantage of the dark side. Watch those that believe in open standards tremble at your feet.

Re:No thanks (4, Insightful)

maccodemonkey (1438585) | about a year ago | (#41431883)

Come on, think of the awesome sales pitch these guys are getting. "Don 't be Evil"? Screw that. Come to the dark side. You have no idea of the full financial advantage of the dark side. Watch those that believe in open standards tremble at your feet.

Yes, because Google Maps is such an open standard. /s

frist psot! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431291)

what would apple do if samsung did this to them? what would the courts reactions be?

Hiring ex google employees? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431299)

That's innovative ...

iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431555)

I don't use Apple products, so maybe this isn't as surprising to others as it is to me, but why the fuck can't an app that ran fine on iOS 5 also run fine on iOS 6? Why is "a little trickery" needed, and even then there are still issues?

Furthermore, wasn't iOS 5 only released to the public in October of 2011? I mean, that wasn't even a single year ago! Is smartphone and tablet crap shat out so rapidly that backward compatibility can't be retained even after only 11 months?

How is it that Microsoft, who aren't exactly known for creating the most robust software, can maintain backward compatibility with operating systems released decades ago, but Apple (also a very well-funded company, with access to basically any talent they need) can't even manage to retain compatibility with a system released not even a year ago?

Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431635)

Maps is a core OS app, like Safari or Mail, and as such it gets used by other applications. It only gets updated when the OS gets updated.

Google reportedly has plans to release their own Maps application. This seems to be more about licensing then about compatibility. It's entirely possible this wasn't solely Apple's doing, but very well could've been due to Google's.

Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (4, Insightful)

king neckbeard (1801738) | about a year ago | (#41431655)

I suspect it's not a technical problem, but rather, a we-hate-google problem. As for why you need trickery to run it, it's probably related to the software being default software that was removed with the update.

Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (5, Insightful)

PixetaledPikachu (1007305) | about a year ago | (#41431673)

I don't use Apple products, so maybe this isn't as surprising to others as it is to me, but why the fuck can't an app that ran fine on iOS 5 also run fine on iOS 6? Why is "a little trickery" needed, and even then there are still issues?

Furthermore, wasn't iOS 5 only released to the public in October of 2011? I mean, that wasn't even a single year ago! Is smartphone and tablet crap shat out so rapidly that backward compatibility can't be retained even after only 11 months?

How is it that Microsoft, who aren't exactly known for creating the most robust software, can maintain backward compatibility with operating systems released decades ago, but Apple (also a very well-funded company, with access to basically any talent they need) can't even manage to retain compatibility with a system released not even a year ago?

this has nothing to do with backward compatibility, this is a solid case of "I don't want to pay you for features that my customers need, and I can't provide decent replacement, but my users will buy my stuff anyway, so why bother"

Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (5, Insightful)

NameIsDavid (945872) | about a year ago | (#41431933)

this has nothing to do with backward compatibility, this is a solid case of "I don't want to pay you for features that my customers need, and I can't provide decent replacement, but my users will buy my stuff anyway, so why bother"

No, it has to do with Google putting restrictions on the use of map data, including not allowing turn-by-turn navigation. Apple knew that it couldn't have a core feature of its product permanently beholden to a competitor and the restrictions it might impose down the line. So, realizing that bringing maps in-house would not get any easier down the line, it decided to rip off the band-aid now. Every other smartphone platform has done the same. Microsoft uses its own maps. Nokia owns Navteq and Google we all know about.

Not really a news story (4, Insightful)

Dyinobal (1427207) | about a year ago | (#41431311)

I don't really see how this is a news story. I mean it makes completely sense to try and lure away experienced professionals away from another company on a similar project.

Re:Not really a news story (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431391)

Of course it does, which is why most companies make you sign non-compete agreements when they hire you. I'm not sure of California's rules on non-competes, but this seems to fit, as they are working directly on the exact same project as the one they are leaving.

Re:Not really a news story (5, Informative)

tysonedwards (969693) | about a year ago | (#41431515)

Typically, contractors are exempt from such agreements as it would violate their ability to seek gainful employment upon completion of their agreement with the original company.

Non-Compete Agreements are intended to protect trade secrets from being shared with a third party while the content of them would be reasonably considered still valid.

If Apple were attempting to attract current, full-time employees than the Non-Compete argument still applies as long as it's content reasonably enables them to continue to seek gainful employment to which they are qualified.

Re:Not really a news story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431795)

Non-compete agreements are intended to prevent employees from working for other companies who want to pay them more than their current employer is paying them. It's that simple.

Re:Not really a news story (4, Informative)

Guy Harris (3803) | about a year ago | (#41431529)

Of course it does, which is why most companies make you sign non-compete agreements when they hire you. I'm not sure of California's rules on non-competes

At least as of 2008, they had no legal standing, with some narrow exceptions [arstechnica.com] (Edwards v. Arthur Anderson LLP).

Re:Not really a news story (3, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about a year ago | (#41431591)

ianal, but I was under the impression that calif was a right-to-work state. a company saying you can't work in your field, even if its just 1 other company (especially in this economy!) IS actually denying you your right to earn a living. suppose that was the only offer you could get? (I've been in the job market and this is not at all farfetched).

lots of bullshit is seen on calif employment contracts. it only matters if the company tries to sue you; and most of the time, they won't bother. the negative PR, should you fight back, would be a career limiter for folks IN the company who pushed you into this.

Re:Not really a news story (1)

king neckbeard (1801738) | about a year ago | (#41431721)

It doesn't appear to be on Wikipedia. Also, given that Hollywood is based there, I'm quite sure it's not a right-to-work state. There are lots of film-related guilds and unions there, after all.

Re:Not really a news story (2)

notdotcom.com (1021409) | about a year ago | (#41431881)

Exactly this. I had signed a "non-compete" agreement with an employer, and I wanted to move. Not only did they officially void the non-compete, but they also told me that it was "essentially impossible to enforce" - particularly in a right-to-work state.

It was intended to intimidate. It failed.

Re:Not really a news story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431929)

California employees and contractors are not bound by non-competes, even if the contract orginated out of state. The are illegal according to the Civil Code, dating back more than a century, and the California Supreme Court upheld the law in 2008.

Re:Not really a news story (5, Insightful)

Tough Love (215404) | about a year ago | (#41431393)

it makes completely sense to try and lure away experienced professionals away from another company on a similar project.

The story is that a company known for boasting about its innovation prowess and suing the rest of the industry over imitation is doing this.

Re:Not really a news story (-1, Troll)

Swampash (1131503) | about a year ago | (#41431851)

And it achieves this innovation by having the best people. Again, why is this news?

Oh, I forgot. It's Slashdot. There's an "Apple Story" daily quota for SEO and ad-whoring.

Re:Not really a news story (1)

stephanruby (542433) | about a year ago | (#41431459)

I don't really see how this is a news story. I mean it makes completely sense to try and lure away experienced professionals away from another company on a similar project.

It's only news, because it's a rare event when corporations actually follow the law [redorbit.com] -- instead of just paying lip service to it.

Re:Not really a news story (1, Informative)

MightyMartian (840721) | about a year ago | (#41431527)

Particularly when said employees worked on a successful mapping project and the pathetic half wits on your project deserved to be dropped out of a tenth storey window.

This. (4, Funny)

Tastecicles (1153671) | about a year ago | (#41431315)

Re:This. (2, Interesting)

garcia (6573) | about a year ago | (#41431431)

Can we just post this link in the blurb on every Apple story so that we don't need to waste mod points on all the karmawhores?

Re:This. (-1)

AmberBlackCat (829689) | about a year ago | (#41431737)

Apple bashing will continue to get +5 and any negative comment about Google will continue to get -1 as long as Google has control of Slashdot. This [slashdot.org] is going to happen over and over again to anybody who dare speaks against Google.

Re:This. (4, Insightful)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | about a year ago | (#41431923)

I see this kind of comparison a lot, so I'll help you understand how it works: Apple bashing gets modded up because of patent lawsuits, high prices, abused workers at third-world manufacturing plants, common or old features being touted as crazy innovations and all of the above combined with gigantic lines for their products, which implies their typical customer's perceived affinity with technology. Google bashing, on the other hand, is often modded down because it happens mostly on comments pertaining to Apple stories. Which means they are probably flamebait and certainly offtopic, thus the rightful moderation. Your example fits nicely. On the other hand, on stories about either Google, privacy concerns or driverless cars, Google bashing is often modded up, so if that's what you fell like doing, lurk for a while and select your stories with more care in the future.

On a related note, X fans will always think that X's competitor Y is being given an unfair advantage, so a wiser approach would be to just let it go.

Re:This. (4, Interesting)

exomondo (1725132) | about a year ago | (#41431457)

Between that, the stupid 'card view' app store layout, music app problems, wifi login issues and the battery life, iOS Vista really needs some work to get it up to scratch.

Re:This. (1)

Blue Stone (582566) | about a year ago | (#41431633)

What you don't realise is that Apple is averse to having their stuff copied, and a cartographer's trick is to "make shit up" to put in their map, so that when it's copied, they can tell and sue for infringement: the supposed crappiness of Apple's OS6 maps is actually a form of copy protection.

Well, either that or they decided the best way to make sure nobody copied their maps app was to make sure nobody would ever want to.

And that... (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#41431641)

Well if that link is going to be every Apple story so is this one:

What mapping company is perfect? [searchenginepeople.com]

Detailing some nice fails on Google's part in mapping.

Apple is somewhat behind, no question - but Google was never perfect. Mapping is hard, you have to put maps out there and let people correct them.

Also another thing that seems really stupid to complain about is flat satellite data warped in 3D mode. You are getting something you could not see before on mobile devices, a cool terrain deformation that actually lets you see hills (useful when planning biking routes) and you just bitch about the projection onto that surface? Talk about #1stworldproblems! terrain deformation seems to register highly in these Apple Map "fails" even though to real users, it is a win.

Re:And that... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431829)

Nobody said Google's maps were perfect. What people are saying is that Apple's replacement for Google Maps is very poor as compared to Google Maps. Just because Google Maps has flaws doesn't mean Apple shouldn't be criticized for putting out an inferior product as a replacement.

Re:This. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431711)

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/11/05/21st-century-war-google-maps-error-leads-to-nicaraguan-invasion/
http://www.maproomblog.com/2010/09/google_maps_errors_and_disappearing_cities.php
http://www.maproomblog.com/2010/06/more_fun_with_google_maps_errors.php
http://www.maproomblog.com/2010/05/saint-pierre_and_miquelon_are_apparently_underwater.php
http://www.firegang.com/google-maps-showing-errors/
http://www.martijnbeijk.com/google-maps-errors-caused-by-teleatlas/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjdelc/92865795/
http://www.nodalbits.com/bits/google-maps-new-changes-new-errors/

Unfair (1)

Kohath (38547) | about a year ago | (#41431331)

Unfair. Those litigious monsters at Apple are hiring guys away from Google. Google should sue them to protect their vital IP.

Also unfair: companies mutually agreeing not to poach each others' employees. And we don't believe in imaginary property.

Employees get to be arms dealers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431337)

Take a look at one of those rare instances where the employees win. In an arms race, the only winners are arms dealers. Those with the expertise are dealing. Let the poaching and pre-emptive salary and benefit increases begin.

Wait a second... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431343)

Wait, didn't Google do something similar and than Apple and Steve Jobs got their panties in a bunch over it? Or was that Microsoft that did that? Either way, nice hypocritical move, Apple.

I thought he died (5, Funny)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#41431345)

Apple Reportedly Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs

What did they do, prop him up and pull a string wrapped around his wrist to beckon them over?

Sorry. I need sleep. Or help.

Re:I thought he died (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431623)

"wrapped around his wrist"?

Use with hook to troll for bottom feeders.

Stink bait can be useful on them...

Future looks bleary (-1, Flamebait)

Compaqt (1758360) | about a year ago | (#41431361)

A $100 billion behemoth throwing its weight around. Anybody who dares to compete is obliterated and banned (see Samsung).

Unlike with M$, throwing money at a business until it succeeds, Apple will succeed.

Walled gardens, "trusted" computing, vetted apps, commissions for Apple, my way or the highway are the future.

Apple is a cunt. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431365)

Apple is a cunt. Anyone who works for Apple is a cunt. Don't be a cunt.

$85K is a lot of money? (2)

hawguy (1600213) | about a year ago | (#41431367)

The referenced article mentions:

The position sounds like a product development manager position, and will pay him $85k+ and all the moving expenses from the East Coast. He’s gone through 2 rounds of interview and seems like a frontrunner to land that position.

Is $85K a lot of money for a product development manager? I know some IT Helpdesk staff that make nearly that much in Silicon Valley.

Re:$85K is a lot of money? (1)

Greyfox (87712) | about a year ago | (#41431411)

If it's the hiring bonus, maybe. I've seen a lot of manual tester positions recently starting about there.

Re:$85K is a lot of money? (1)

DerekLyons (302214) | about a year ago | (#41431715)

This should come as no surprise, but salaries vary with location based largely on the cost-of-living. Silicon Valley and the Bay Area are some of the most expensive places to live in the US.

Re:$85K is a lot of money? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431771)

No.

Salaries have been stagnate for years; which flies in the face of their being "shortages" or "difficulty in finding qualified people".

Or let's put it this way: if things were as bad as some employers would have us beleive, salaires would be well over $200K/year. But they're not - and they're mostly under $100K.

The market says there are plenty of tech workers.

Here's a story of two tech guys. One, was a TECHIE - no business shit for him! And in the late 90s doing pretty well for himself as a contractor.

The other guy, went into management as soon as he could. In the 90s, the TECHIE was feeling real smug that he was making so much more then the management loser. Then 2002 came. The techie had no more lucrative contracts. A LOT of stuff was going over seas because of the "shortage".

Management guy was now a director who's job was to move techie stuff overseas. He did a hell of a job, got promoted to VP. He then quite and is now in a nice cushy low-mid-six figure government consulting job in DC.

The TECHIE is working $8/hr in a UPS store and helping little old ladies find their grandkids photos on their Dells.

Use STEM jobs as a steppingstone to something bigger and better and GTFO ASAP!

Data (5, Interesting)

Dan East (318230) | about a year ago | (#41431369)

Apple's problem is primarily with the data, not the actual mapping application. Considering how deep Apple's pockets are, I'm really surprised they weren't able to license a better / larger set of GIS data. There are number of competing mapping companies out there, so I have a hard time believing that, given enough money, one of them wouldn't have provided Apple with what they needed.

Now as for the actual application, I believe Apple's map application is superior to Google's in a number of ways. I've always preferred vector / real-time drawn maps over pre-rendered tiled raster maps (which is what Google's are).

So as for Google maps, why hasn't Google released a stand alone app yet? After all, that's all Google Maps are with Android is an app on the marketplace. Is Apple blocking Google, or is Google (perhaps wisely) letting Apple go it alone for a bit so people will miss the functionality Google provided, then they can step in and save the day (before Apple has a chance to improve their product enough)?

Re:Data (4, Insightful)

QilessQi (2044624) | about a year ago | (#41431449)

I respectfully disagree that the primary problem is the data. Have you seen the comparisons of Apple's "virtual flyover" with Google's "street view"? Flyover looks nice for certain scenes, but others are full of bizarre Dali-esque digital artifacts and distortions.

Give me real photos from street level, any day.

Re:Data (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431569)

Google street view is fucking useless. Low resolution, out of date images usually obscured by trees or other obstacles. It painfully slow to navigate.

Give me three dimensional fly over, any day.

Re:Data (1)

joh (27088) | about a year ago | (#41431713)

I respectfully disagree that the primary problem is the data. Have you seen the comparisons of Apple's "virtual flyover" with Google's "street view"? Flyover looks nice for certain scenes, but others are full of bizarre Dali-esque digital artifacts and distortions.

Give me real photos from street level, any day.

Yes, but at least in Europe Google has already stated that it won't update StreetView. Won't happen. People don't like companies driving along in front of their houses and snapping photos. It's over. I don't know where you live, but in my city Streetview is already getting stale.

I think the next level is drones flying over the landscape and doing something like flyover from 300 feet. Next level, please.

Re:Data (3, Interesting)

mattsday (909414) | about a year ago | (#41431845)

A Google van drove past me about 2 weeks ago here in the UK, which last I checked is part of Europe.

Re:Data (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | about a year ago | (#41431803)

I respectfully disagree that the primary problem is the data. (...) Flyover looks nice for certain scenes, but others are full of bizarre Dali-esque digital artifacts and distortions.

And Flyover data is not data?

Re:Data (1)

es330td (964170) | about a year ago | (#41431817)

I respectfully disagree that the primary problem is the data.

The complaints aren't so much about the pictures as the location data. Since upgrading to iOS6 I have been frustrated several times when stores I needed to look up simply weren't in Yelp's database. I wanted a store five miles from my house and its best suggestion was one 15 miles away. I don't care about the pictures; what I want is to know the best route through Houston to a place I have been previously but have never driven to from where I happen to be.

Re:Data (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431561)

"Apple's problem is primarily with the data, not the actual mapping application."

Yes and no. There does appear to be problems with the data (left/right geocoding attributes appear to be way, way off), but issues like having roads go through a lake or (my personal favorite) an airport having the topography of a small mountain range screams someone fucked up defining (or even taking into consideration) the geographic projections of each layer on Apple's end.

Re:Data (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | about a year ago | (#41431819)

"Apple's problem is primarily with the data, not the actual mapping application."

Yes and no. There does appear to be problems with the data (left/right geocoding attributes appear to be way, way off), but issues like having roads go through a lake or (my personal favorite) an airport having the topography of a small mountain range screams someone fucked up defining (or even taking into consideration) the geographic projections of each layer on Apple's end.

This "Apple's end" is still the data on Apple's servers, not the app itself.

Re:Data (0)

MightyMartian (840721) | about a year ago | (#41431577)

Have you used the app? The quality of the satellite images are atrocious and there's no street view equivalent. Bad data is only part of the problem. If this was any other company it would be considered an alpha release. Google Maps is so superior in every respect that Apple's app is like holding up a grade schooler's crayon-and-construction paper art project up to a Cézanne and claiming "he just needs to draw sharper lines."

3D flyover can replace street view (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#41431667)

The quality of the satellite images are atrocious

Only in some areas. In others they have higher resolution satellite images.

there's no street view equivalent

That's what 3D flyover mode is for. I prefer it to Steetview as you can see more of the area at once, the current problem is limited availability of cities that have 3D data (I have not seen an exact list anywhere yet) .

If this was any other company it would be considered an alpha release.

Having used it for a month or so I would say beta, not alpha.. it's way beyond alpha. It really doesn't crash, the map rendering works well, and searches for standard stuff mostly work OK day to day.

It's quite usable, really the main issue is sometimes searches do not find what you want when you know it should. That's the angle they need to attack first and strongly.

Re:Data (0)

should_be_linear (779431) | about a year ago | (#41431599)

So as for Google maps, why hasn't Google released a stand alone app yet? Perhaps because Apple is bullying Android producers, so Google decided that enough is enough. Apple is perhaps lucky that at least web search is still on. Maybe we will see improvement in iOS7, with iSearch that cannot find a damn thing.

Re:Data (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | about a year ago | (#41431833)

Perhaps because Apple is bullying Android producers, so Google decided that enough is enough.

That's why there's Google Earth for iOS since ages (and hasn't gone anywhere) and Google has just released its own YouTube app for iOS...

Re:Data (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431661)

It googles stand alone map app is anything like their new youtube app, nobody is gonna be missing anything.

Re:Data (2)

xaxa (988988) | about a year ago | (#41431789)

Apple's problem is primarily with the data, not the actual mapping application.

OpenStreetMap has better data in plenty of regions (there have been many examples of awful data in big European cities, which is where OSM is better than anything the commercial mappers provide), so I think there's more to it than simply data.

Now as for the actual application, I believe Apple's map application is superior to Google's in a number of ways. I've always preferred vector / real-time drawn maps over pre-rendered tiled raster maps (which is what Google's are).

Google's maps have been vector-based on Android since, apparently, 2010, and for a while on a WebGL browser too. http://www.techoncept.com/google-maps-android-app-now-has-amazing-vector-graphics-content-available-offline [techoncept.com]

Re:Data (5, Informative)

De Lemming (227104) | about a year ago | (#41431831)

Google has a maps app ready, and it's already submitted to Apple. The only thing holding it back is Apple approving it. So that may be next week, in a year (like they did with Google Voice [mashable.com]) or never (under the "duplicates a native service" rule).

Sources:
http://9to5mac.com/2012/09/20/google-has-an-ios-6-maps-app-awaiting-approval-it-is-solely-up-to-apple-to-approve/ [9to5mac.com]
http://mashable.com/2012/09/20/google-maps-ios-6-apple-approval-report/ [mashable.com]

Coming soon: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431377)

Mon, Sept 23 2013 Headline News: Apple Sues Google for copying their iMaps program. The Steve Jobs clone goes on the record: "Obviously the Google hired the same developers as Apple to create their map software. This is theft and will will destroy them." When the question was raised who the developers worked for first, Jobs stated "Apple does not adhere to linear timelines."

Honestly... (3, Insightful)

joh (27088) | about a year ago | (#41431387)

I'm not an Apple fanboi but the rap Apple is getting about that maps app (and the data behind it) is just unreasonable. I'm totally happy with another big company trying to gear up here. Having only Google as a supplier of that would be just sad. What's wrong with competition? Let Apple try and top Google or at least get far enough to be as usable as Google maps is. And really, it's not as if Google had no screw-ups ever. Google for it (lol).

Sometimes I look at comments everywhere and it seems as if people would be totally happy to see nothing but Google and Android everywhere. Be careful what you wish for! Competition is good. Luring away employees is good. I love to be lured away from the job I'm doing. Give me a better job and a harder task to solve and I'm happy.

I'm sure that Apple going for a solution of its own will make even Google better. There's nothing good about the complacency of being a monopoly. Really. Grow some brain, guys.

Re:Honestly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431479)

Totally agree (rah-rah competition, market forces, etc), but with one important caveat: while I want those companies to do what you outline, I don't want them to pretend that don't (or worse, outright lie about it), I don't want them to bitch when the other team does as well, and I sure as shit don't want them to have a leg to stand on when they try to co-opt the legal system to prevent the anyone else from doing it.

Re:Honestly... (3, Insightful)

joh (27088) | about a year ago | (#41431605)

I understand what you're saying, but: Isn't this just business? Yeah, it may look childish now and then but do you really expect multi-billion companies fighting over multi-bilion markets not trying to get in the lever at every crack they see?

Personally I think even all these silly lawsuits are basically a symptom of civilisation. There're are lawyers making lots of money here, yes. But isn't this basically a good, civilized way of fighting and of money well spent? Better than going and killing people anyway. Better than almost everything that was common in the past. Better than any *real* war. No people are losing their limbs or being killed here. No widows, no orphans, no people being pushed around in wheelchairs. Just business and things to bicker about on Slashdot.

What's wrong about that? I love it. Give me more of that and more competition and more lawsuits. And less war and money spent on weapons instead. The day that wars will be fought and won or lost in a court will be the victory of civilisation. Give me more that and more different smartphones and tablets and map apps and whatever.

Re:Honestly... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431501)

Apple releasing a map apps is completely fine. Making it not possible to use Google Maps, when in fact the Apple app sucks balls and the Google App is pretty awesome is what the problem is. Apple could at least have waited with blocking Google Maps until their own app wasn't so horrendous compared to the real thing.

Re:Honestly... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431585)

You can use those piece of shit google all you want. maps.google.com

Personally I relieved that I'll never need to use that steaming pile of google crap ever again.

It is possible to use Google maps (2)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#41431593)

Go to maps.google.com in the Safari browser.

At this point it's not Apple's choice to be able to use the old map app - the license with Google is expiring so Apple cannot keep providing that app.

There's no reason to think Apple would block a Google written map app considering there are scores of other map applications in the App Store - including the Bing app [apple.com] (which includes Bing maps).

Re:Honestly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431553)

I'm actually really glad as well.
Maybe it will force Google to actually get data that isn't ancient.

I already found a source of imagery better from a company that does aerial photography with pretty damn good accuracy.
I use that now if I ever want to look up places in closer detail.
Harder to navigate it since it is designed for getting prints, but hey, still better than ancient data for a mapping service.
We are speaking at least 10+ years. There's a wooden kids playhouse out my back garden that was away 10+ years ago.
That is just nuts.

And I'm not exactly in some tiny crap village or anything.
I am in a popular-ish seaside resort that is stepping on the line between large town and city.

Re:Honestly... (1)

downhole (831621) | about a year ago | (#41431575)

Seems reasonable to me... Though I'm a longtime Android user, I have no problem with the idea of Apple trying to do their own thing and create a separate system. A little competition is good for everyone and all that. I know that Apple has a hard problem on their hands in creating a new mapping system - there's just an insane amount of data and tedious labor in creating really good global maps, and it takes years and many millions of dollars to get it right. But I'd still be pissed if I was an iPhone user who just lost a bunch of functionality because of the Apple-Google pissing match. Perhaps they should have at least spent a little more time and money on it, maybe had some sort of open beta phase for a year or two. Oh well, I'll just be glad that I'm on Android for now.

Re:Honestly... (4, Interesting)

should_be_linear (779431) | about a year ago | (#41431677)

Sometimes I look at comments everywhere and it seems as if people would be totally happy to see nothing but Google and Android everywhere.

If Apple and Microsoft PR departments only thought about all consequences of suing people around and behaving unethically in all cases where ethics remotely mattered ... You cannot expect /. crowd to forget in weeks what is their default corporate behavior.

Re:Honestly... (1, Funny)

joh (27088) | about a year ago | (#41431759)

God, going from Score:3 (default) to Score: 5, Insightful to Score: 3 within minutes REALLY seems as if people don't like reasonable comments.

Reminds me of getting a dozen thumbs down on The Register just for pointing out that the iPhone 4s was eating every other smartphone for lunch in GPU benchmarks along with a link to Anandtech proving it answering comments that that iPhone were tech of yesteryear (and I even don't own an iPhone 4s).

Apple Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs' corpse (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431415)

That's right, you can jump in a casket with Steve Jobs' corpse for seven minnutes of heaven.

Great! (1, Interesting)

stephanruby (542433) | about a year ago | (#41431417)

Finally, Apple and Google are now poaching each other's employees/contractors. Remember this story [redorbit.com].

Perhaps now, this will force Google to offer permanent positions and better salaries to some of its better contract programmers. Also now that Apple is going after Google's employees, Apple can't really complain if Google makes a targeted effort to hire away some of Apple's top designers.

Permanent Beta! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431439)

They should do like Google. Name everything permanent beta. Get-out-of-jail-free-card for every fail.

About the alleged hiring/luring: It's not like this doesn't happen all the time. Companies are constantly luring away employees from other companies. But of course, in the light of the Apple maps broohaha I guess this is unexpected and kinda newsworthy.

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431451)

Did you hear me? TWENTY PERCENT LIGHTER. We had to dig really deep this time to have such a major improvement in weight. We stripped out the irrelevant detail from the shitty Google maps application. Infact, we should have thought of this earlier. Google really does increase the weight of the phone with all that searching, mapping, navigation...

Trust in Apple!

Everything I've read about Apple (1, Troll)

rsilvergun (571051) | about a year ago | (#41431463)

suggests it's one of the worst companies to work for this side of Cannon (famous for installing sensors to track how fast employees go to the bathroom). From what I understand it was the weird cult of personality around Jobs that let them do that. With Steve gone, are they gonna be able to pull that off?

What other company? (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#41431723)

From what I understand it was the weird cult of personality around Jobs that let them do that.

Not from talking to anyone I've ever known that worked at Apple.

Apple is paranoid and a bit of a slave driver. BUT currently they are the thought leader in the mobile industry. What other company could you work at where so many projects are used by hundreds of millions of users? Where potentially you might be working on new projects with the same range.

If you care about work being used, Apple is a pretty compelling draw... even moreso than at Google where yes some of the projects have that range of use, but not all of them.

Whatever happened to, "It just works?" (4, Insightful)

bogaboga (793279) | about a year ago | (#41431565)

I thought Apple never did wrong because every pundit was detailing its so called, "attention to detail...". So what happened?

One did not need elementary school education to realise that its maps iteration was not just crazy, but it was just bizzare, showed incompetence and was taken as a reckless joke by many of us.

So again, what hapened to, "It just works?"

What Happened (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#41431703)

Apple produced a whole mapping app from scratch, including data that mostly works well, and has a cleaner view on maps.

Then the Internet Trolls such as yourself decided that 3D deformation of terrain looked "funny" in areas with only 2D data, and decided to make fun of a feature that had not existed in built in mobile mapping applications before Apple shipped it.

When people actually realize Apple maps are usable, as usual the troll fever will subside somewhat.

Re:What Happened (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431813)

and has a cleaner view on maps.

Yes, displaying less information often has that effect.

Re:What Happened (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431857)

Legitimate criticism = trolling

Re:What Happened (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431859)

Search is completely broken. Completely. Sure, looking at 2D imagery stretched over 3D terrain (in the 99.9% of the world where Apple doesn't have full 3D models) is fun, and the aerial imagery is a little patchy (around here we get a mix of black and white high-resolution images and incredibly pixelated colour images), but the real killer is the awful search. The only way I've been able to use it (for "real" purposes like navigating to a new supermarket and the airport last weekend) is to search Google for the postcode and then give that to Maps. With the postcode it works pretty well (revealing its TomTom heritage). Without, not so much. A search for my local train station gives no hits within a mile of the station, but does give one hit in the SEA. And guess what field Google has a 15-year headstart in

Re:What Happened (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | about a year ago | (#41431899)

As an OSM contributor myself, I agree that a few misplaced points of interest are not so incredibly bad as internet trolls say it is. Sure it's not great but as long as there is a committed team working on the data, the kinks will be sorted out rather quickly. Apple should've stayed with OSM data for countries with good OSM coverage instead of licensing (broken?) data from TomTom.

What you are wrong about, though, is the claim that Apple Maps is the first with 3D maps. Google Maps has a very similar feature since quite a while. Check out the first screenshot: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-earth/id293622097 [apple.com]

HA HA! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431567)

The iPhone 5 is shit. Now Apple admit it by trying to hire the competition to make it better.

Ex-Google employee: Hi Google, I've just been offered $50 to make iOS6 maps better
Google: OK, see ya, here's $100 while you're at it to secretly make it worse without them knowing it.
Ex-Google employee: Google is AWESOME, fuck Apple, let's work for Apple and Google at the same time!

the app is not the problem (0)

dnaumov (453672) | about a year ago | (#41431571)

The app itself is not the problem, in fact, the Apple Maps app seems to be faster than the Google one. The problem is the source data and no amount of software engineers hired is going to be able to solve this.

Re:the app is not the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431885)

No, but Apple is in the relatively rare position of having vast amounts of cash to throw at the problem. Send a billion-dollar drone army (or manned planes if it's cheaper/more efficient) to get accurate aerial imagery and 3D models of EVERYWHERE, and another billion-dollar army of people to map out the roads and landmarks, OpenStreetMap-style. (The latter would have the advantage of creating a lot of jobs, albeit mostly temporary.) This, combined with a half-decent search algorithm (since they have tagged ALL the places, they don't need the search to be as contextual as Google's), will give them an absolutely killer app. 3D view would almost be able to emulate Street View by moving the viewport close enough to the ground, with the only problem then being the amount of data it would need to load (textures all the way to the horizon).

I would have like to have watched the video (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431587)

But the YouTube app was removed from my iPad with iOS 6. [rimshot]

Patensts? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431625)

I hope Google have lots of patents on their mapping

For goodness sake Apple, are there no limits to how low you will stoop?

Re: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431699)

But Jobs is gone! What's the lure now!!!

GREAT IDEA! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41431823)

Step 1: Get rid of Google Maps on iPhone.

Step 2: Try to do our own maps thing and [bleep] it up.

Step 3: Try to steal Google (or EX-Google) Mappers/ to make maps.

Step 4: Yaaaaay?

New people needed? (2)

notdotcom.com (1021409) | about a year ago | (#41431903)

My current job said it best: "What we need is not new *people*; we need new *ideas*.

Wouldn't you know it, they are willing to pay for both!

Samsung Add (1)

EEPROMS (889169) | about a year ago | (#41431941)

Samsung should do an advert now while the iron is hot. Showing hipsters stumbling around banging into buildings and going to the wrong place. "our phones wont leave you lost".
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