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Flatlining User Base May Spell End of RIM

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the rim-edge-brink-what's-the-difference? dept.

Blackberry 180

Meshach writes "There is an article in the Globe and Mail that says that the user base for Blackberry has stopped growing for the first time in the company's history, and speculates that this is the beginning of the end of RIM. The main problem seems to be that RIM's new Blackberry models like the Bold and Torch are selling poorly, and their production costs are much higher than other products manufactured in China. A recent research report says that after BB10 the company will need to sell or drastically change its business model."

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RIM's Main Problem (0, Troll)

AndroidLover (2737833) | about 2 years ago | (#41435229)

RIM's main problem is that enterprise companies have started moving away from the platform. People don't want to carry around several smart phones and are much more eager to choose either iPhone or WP7 phones. Microsoft is known for being the office centric company and therefore has fantastic support for Exchange server and office apps. RIM lost the audience it had when Windows Phones were introduced (while Windows Mobile also had many work users, WP was a major improvement).

RIM basically lost all of its advantages to iPhone (home users) and Windows Phone's (work users). The only place I still see some Blackberries is the university students in Bangkok, Thailand (crazy adventures there, let me tell you).

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435251)

People don't want to carry around several smart phones and are much more eager to choose either iPhone or WP7 phones.

WP7? [citation needed]

Re:RIM's Main Problem (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435259)

I think it's safe to say he's a troll. The combination of the user name "AndroidLover" with the actual post pretending that Android doesn't exist and that WP7, of all things, is a major force in the market is... implausible.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (2, Interesting)

stokessd (89903) | about 2 years ago | (#41435653)

He may or may not be a troll, but I work for a HUGE company, and they dumped all the Crack-Berrys and went all-in on windows phones. I was not surprised that they did that, as we are microsoft to the core (with all the benefits that entails, like blue screens galore). Before the giant black-berry purge, I had not actually seen a windows phone in the wild.

Apparently our IT folks examined the smart-phone landscape and something (hopefully) smart pushed them to WP7. so the GP may have a point.

BTW, I hate the cut-off text of WP7, and would not buy one with my money.

Sheldon

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435771)

If they went to WP7 it must be because it doesn't support full device encryption (it only allows apps to encrypt their own data). And the encryption isn't available on their own built in mail client; you have to go with a third party like Good in order to get encryption. Apparently your IT people don't like encryption since everyone else (RIM, Apple, Android) offer it. Now, it is supposedly in WP8, but the comment was about WP7 which doesn't have it.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (2)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about 2 years ago | (#41436237)

Apparently they dont like a 30 minute server setup process, followed by no-hassle user adds (user needs to enter their email and the activation password) and device wipes.

Yes, Im sure something smart pushed them to WP7, but darned if I can figure out what it is. Oh wait, Im gonna go with "someone higher up doesnt care about email as much as he cares about 'slick' and 'can watch netflix'".

Re:RIM's Main Problem (4, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 2 years ago | (#41436411)

Why would you think the IT people had any real input into this decision?

Last time Microsoft made an aggressive push to counter Apple et. al. in the workplace, they didn't target us lowly peons - they wined and dined presidents and CEOs. I recall several Microsoft-centric directives, a few years ago, coming from the office of our university's president regarding things like setting up a campus-wide Exchange service; they came roughly six months after our central IT department announced we were moving campus mail to Google Apps.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (2)

JDG1980 (2438906) | about 2 years ago | (#41436089)

He may or may not be a troll, but I work for a HUGE company, and they dumped all the Crack-Berrys and went all-in on windows phones. I was not surprised that they did that, as we are microsoft to the core

The problem is that Windows Phones actually aren't any better at integrating with real Windows infrastructure than iPhones, Android devices, or BlackBerries are. If Microsoft had added real domain/GPO features to Windows Phones, they could have made a good business case. But as things are, everyone has ActiveSync (support for Exchange servers) so this is no advantage for WP.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435267)

Except all that's really left soon is Android phones. Only old people buy iPhones anymore. Windows phone? We'll have to see how it goes.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435295)

Bloody troll. GTFO.

(no not touchy isheep, you are just a troll)

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435343)

Don't knock the iPhones, my grandma has one and says it's the cats ass.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435279)

I'd speculate there are a lot more iPhone (work users) than Windows Phone...

Re:RIM's Main Problem (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435537)

I'd speculate there are a lot more iPhone (work users) than Windows Phone...

I guess, I mean.... if you work in a gay bar.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (5, Insightful)

Ironhandx (1762146) | about 2 years ago | (#41435287)

Don't forget that Android devices are ridiculously easy to lock down and set up with full encryption. There are actually companies out there whose entire business is doing just that for the corporate use scenario.

Its so stupidly easy to integrate Android with all of their existing email and even internal messaging apps(most of which are written in Java and trivially ported to native) that it beggars belief that they would consider much of anything else.

iPhone doesn't allow the kind of direct control that Corporate security demands, and WP7 has such a low penetration that no one is asking for it anyways. Android, even though there could definitely be better solutions, is currently the only real choice for corporate america. The worker drones get something that does everything an iPhone does(in some cases does it better, in some cases worse, but the important things are roughly the same, except for the GPS nav on android is much better) and they get their security.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435313)

>iPhone doesn't allow the kind of direct control that Corporate security demands
Yes, it does. You just don't know it any better. But don't let facts hit you in your face in your pursuit of iHate.

>Android, even though there could definitely be better solutions, is currently the only real choice for corporate america.
Illusional DroidTard.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (0)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 2 years ago | (#41435411)

>iPhone doesn't allow the kind of direct control that Corporate security demands
Yes, it does. You just don't know it any better. But don't let facts hit you in your face in your pursuit of iHate.

I'm guessing by "direct control" he means the ability to actually read and adjust the sourcecode and the ability to guarentee that the OS isn't secretly tracking users despite promises by the OS vendor and disabling all such functionality.
A closed source product like iOS requires security to be entrusted to it's vendor. This may not be desirable for all levels of security requirements. Governments and big companies may be able to audit closed source code, but if you're $billion company, chances are you won't.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435429)

Wow, thanks for that instructive and factual retort. The name callingsure does help the cause of you and your ilk.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435457)

And your answer is sooooo good and comes in a nice rounded corners package, when you explain what kind of controls you get with iStuff, iSerf

Re:RIM's Main Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435517)

Herpa derp. How is it being 20 and an anecdotal expert on absolutely everything. One day you'll grow up and stop making such sweeping generalizations. And "worker drones"? Nice touch at being out of touch with humanity.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

DrXym (126579) | about 2 years ago | (#41435803)

I have a Playbook and the app store is pretty desperate. It's not hugely difficult to port apps to the Playbook - it has an Android runtime, QT, Java, C, HTML APIs etc but not many devs bother and those that do stick a premium on to cover their efforts.

It's actually a very robust device and barring some annoyances (some of which are very annoying) the OS is attractive, intuitive and the hardware is great. But it's not Android and lack of apps kills it.

I personally think RIM's future should be on Android. Dump QNX and Playbook OS. Produce a Playbook / BB 10 OS runtime for Android and then move house over to it. Make money by selling security hardened Android devices and value added apps that sit on top.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

rvw (755107) | about 2 years ago | (#41435943)

I personally think RIM's future should be on Android. Dump QNX and Playbook OS. Produce a Playbook / BB 10 OS runtime for Android and then move house over to it. Make money by selling security hardened Android devices and value added apps that sit on top.

And they should offer phones with hardware keyboards. I bet there is a market for it. Keep offering services like ping - kids here love it. All kids in high school here (Netherlands) have blackberries. Once they have money or go to university, they buy an iphone or android phone. BB should find a way to keep them instead.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about 2 years ago | (#41436351)

Android simply isnt designed for hardware keyboard use the way Blackberries were. RIM could try to do something with android, and it would still be a touch device first. It would also lose all of the benefits of BES that make RIM different and desirable.

Im really not clear why anyone would get a RIMdroid.

To port to PlayBook you have to own a PlayBook (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41436383)

It's not hugely difficult to port apps to the Playbook [...] but not many devs bother

A developer can't very well port an application to a device that he doesn't have.

and those that do stick a premium on to cover their efforts.

How much of that premium is to cover the cost of buying a PlayBook on which to test?

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | about 2 years ago | (#41435971)

iPhones can be locked down and controlled to some degree. Enough for some corporations to allow confidential email and contact info on personal iPhones. What I'd like to see on the iPhone is a completely separate "work" sandbox. Doesn't BB offer this already?

Re:RIM's Main Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41436005)

Only the recent crop of premium Android devices support these features. I have a shiny new 2.x Android device which only supports application-level encryption through third-party apps. I'm pretty new to Android, but it's important not to mislead people on this.

The same is true of iOS. You need the new stuff to have these features. I would argue that features like remote wipe, manditory encryption and whitelisting apps is much easier in iOS 5 than on Android, although I haven't looked at iOS 6 yet though.

It's not hard to find this information: http://www.apple.com/iphone/business/integration/ [apple.com]

Re:RIM's Main Problem (2)

PNutts (199112) | about 2 years ago | (#41436317)

Only the recent crop of premium Android devices support these features. I have a shiny new 2.x Android device which only supports application-level encryption through third-party apps. I'm pretty new to Android, but it's important not to mislead people on this.

The same is true of iOS. You need the new stuff to have these features. I would argue that features like remote wipe, manditory encryption and whitelisting apps is much easier in iOS 5 than on Android, although I haven't looked at iOS 6 yet though.

It's not hard to find this information: http://www.apple.com/iphone/business/integration/ [apple.com]

iOS and iPhone hardware have supported the features you mentioned for a long time. However, only in iOS 4.x have all the features been accurately reported.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (3, Informative)

PNutts (199112) | about 2 years ago | (#41436181)

Don't forget that Android devices are ridiculously easy to lock down and set up with full encryption. There are actually companies out there whose entire business is doing just that for the corporate use scenario.

Its so stupidly easy to integrate Android with all of their existing email and even internal messaging apps(most of which are written in Java and trivially ported to native) that it beggars belief that they would consider much of anything else.

iPhone doesn't allow the kind of direct control that Corporate security demands, and WP7 has such a low penetration that no one is asking for it anyways. Android, even though there could definitely be better solutions, is currently the only real choice for corporate america. The worker drones get something that does everything an iPhone does(in some cases does it better, in some cases worse, but the important things are roughly the same, except for the GPS nav on android is much better) and they get their security.

The iPhone Configurator allows corporations to manage iPhones. But even with that, the iPhone's data-at-rest encryption and Activesync compliance hisorically gave them a heads-up over other BYODs. In addition, third party apps for iOS / Android have provided more granular and non-managed security features. For Android it filled in encryption feature gaps which is no longer an issue on the latest devices. On the iPhone the biggest benefit of these apps was to sandbox corporate data from personal, including a remote wipe.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41436205)

Caldav doesn't work on android.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (3, Insightful)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about 2 years ago | (#41436313)

Don't forget that Android devices are ridiculously easy to lock down and set up with full encryption....

is currently the only real choice for corporate america.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you need to get a third party product to manage that centrally (would be interested to hear how youre doing it if not). Blackberries are STILL a good choice for corp america, if you really care about security.

You really cant compare Android's email security to BES's; Android can be tricked into disclosing email with ANY legit-signed SSL cert with the proper FQDN-- even if it was issued by the DOD or one of China's authorities. You CANNOT fool BES devices in the same way-- you must either crack the AES encryption on a per-device basis, or grab all the per-device keys from the server.

I get the whole "Oh noes BES is dying" thing, but they still have superior management, and they still have superior security. Perhaps thats not what is in vogue, and failing to adapt will kill BES, but lets not go overboard by comparing Android security to Blackberry.

Mod parent as shill (-1, Troll)

CRCulver (715279) | about 2 years ago | (#41435303)

Yet another Slashdot first post that touts a Microsoft product while giving a modicum of lip service to a competing product in order to cover up shilling.

ASTROTURFER (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435309)

"AndroidLover" really needed to insert that Microsoft compliment on an RIM article.. and on your first post ever.. and your the first to reply. nicely done troll.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (4, Informative)

teg (97890) | about 2 years ago | (#41435327)

RIM's main problem is that enterprise companies have started moving away from the platform. People don't want to carry around several smart phones and are much more eager to choose either iPhone or WP7 phones. Microsoft is known for being the office centric company and therefore has fantastic support for Exchange server and office apps. RIM lost the audience it had when Windows Phones were introduced (while Windows Mobile also had many work users, WP was a major improvement)..

While you present an interesting theory, reality is that noone is using Windows Phone [bgr.com] . They had a market share of 3% of smartphones shipped. iPhone in particular [networkworld.com] and Android are the ones eating Blackberry's lunch. To make this even worse, this quarter Windows Phone is currently only sold on known obsolete phones [arstechnica.com] . I'm glad I didn't get suckered into buying a phone that obsolete immediately, unlike Nexus Phones and iPhones.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (-1, Troll)

sjwt (161428) | about 2 years ago | (#41435359)

I'm glad I didn't get suckered into buying a phone that obsolete immediately, unlike Nexus Phones and iPhones.

You mean "I'm glad that I didn't get sucked into buying a phone that is obsolete before it came out, like the IPhones"

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

Servaas (1050156) | about 2 years ago | (#41435373)

That doesn't even make sense!

shippedh != sold (1)

SgtChaireBourne (457691) | about 2 years ago | (#41435727)

That's 3% shipped, not sold. They'll often talk about shipped units to make the numbers bigger, but actual sold units is an even smaller number. It's a phone no one wants.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

DrXym (126579) | about 2 years ago | (#41435989)

I think Windows Phone will stand a better chance when Windows RT and 8 release.

While Android is an excellent OS, it really sucks in some ways too. In particular it sucks with mouse and keyboard support. The experience of my Asus TF300 wouldn't hold a candle against a $200 netbook. Stuff like tabbing and cursor navigation / selection is horribly inconsistent and sometimes even missing from some apps (e.g. Polaris Office). I can easily imagine that Windows 8/RT is going to take off in offices because it won't suck with mouse and keyboard. Managers like these things because they're portable but they can be dropped into a cradle / dock / whatever and they act like traditional PCs. On top of that they'll have a proper office suite instead of the crappy offerings seen on Android and iOS at present.

Windows Phone 8 will get a bounce from that if nothing else.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41436415)

Stuff like tabbing and cursor navigation / selection is horribly inconsistent and sometimes even missing from some apps (e.g. Polaris Office).

Did you try reporting the inconsistency to the developers of those applications?

Re:RIM's Main Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435335)

Can anyone give some examples of Win7/8 phones with full keyboards? Im a BB user primarily bec of the full keyboard. If there were good Win phones with similar I would consider them too.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

Tridus (79566) | about 2 years ago | (#41435697)

There aren't any WP8 phones with full keyboards. None. It's one of the things that Nokia watchers shake their heads at and go "WTF?"

Re:RIM's Main Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435415)

"Windows Phone's (work users)".

Haha - no. I work for a monstrously large company, and we can choose iPhones or one of several Android phones. Windows phones are not an option.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (2)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#41435493)

Your troll was too subtle, to be funny.
"RIM's main problem is that enterprise companies have started moving away from the platform." While obvious, usually on par with the average Slashdot informative moderation.

"People don't want to carry around several smart phones and are much more eager to choose either iPhone or WP7 phones." This statement begins as true (insightful moderation) and if you changed WP7 or added Android. It would complete it. Your troll is based on skipping Android phones which are actually far more popular then WP7.

"Microsoft is known for being the office centric company and therefore has fantastic support for Exchange server and office apps." Being that Apple Purchased the license from Microsoft to support exchange is one reason why RIM is in trouble on the enterprise market, as a lot of companies do use Exchange (Rightly or Wrongly).

"RIM lost the audience it had when Windows Phones were introduced (while Windows Mobile also had many work users, WP was a major improvement)." This is pointing out a correlation, however you don't see the numbers showing that Windows Phone is taking over their market, it is more likely due to Microsoft jumping onto to Smart Phone Band Wagon.

"RIM basically lost all of its advantages to iPhone (home users) and Windows Phone's (work users). The only place I still see some Blackberries is the university students in Bangkok, Thailand (crazy adventures there, let me tell you)."
I haven't seen that much effort in Microsoft trying to take over the business market with Windows Phone, but trying to attract the consumer market. Apple and Android had already gotten the consumer market and are now working on making it more business friendly.

While saying anything nice about Microsoft on Slashdot can get some troll moderation, also adding Apple and ignoring Android as a competitive product helps. You just didn't get it right. You had the pieces to make a good troll, but you didn't put it together correctly, It is like a white nerd trying to talk street to look cool. You say all the right words but you end up looking even more out of place.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

Tridus (79566) | about 2 years ago | (#41435709)

Oh look, it's another first post at exactly the same time the article went up, and it's another user with no other posts, and it's another post talking about how Windows Phone shill post.

Man, Microsoft's PR department really gives us no credit at all.

Re:RIM's Main Problem (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about 2 years ago | (#41435899)

Well hello there, Mr. Ballmer! Glad to meet your acquaintence. That was the most blatant shill I've seen in a long time, the shills are really getting thick lately. How fucking stupid do you think we nerds are, anyway?

iPhone and Win7 when Win7's market share is tiny and Android has three times the sales as iPhones, and you omit Android? Again, Redmond, why do you think we're so damned stupid? Thank you for reminding me how evil MS is and to avoid their poorly designed, user-unfriendly software and OSes.

Now go tell your boss the slashdot nerds outed you, dumbass.

rim was the stopgap between pagers and smartphones (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435247)

they are just not needed anymore...

In the environment of.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435255)

all the lawsuits and rioting....

We'll all be back to sending smoke signals and slinging feces in no time at all!.

Hey if no one else wants it, that's for me! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435265)

Just like os\2, palM, winmo, kin, winpho, ugly betty, all once mine. Rim is fine until I get one then it's curtains for sure.

Beginning (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435285)

THIS is the beginning of the end of RIM?

It began a long time ago...

RIM Indian Mobiles (2)

unixisc (2429386) | about 2 years ago | (#41436169)

Wasn't there a story not so long back about how India is one of the few markets RIM is still thriving? In India, while people pick up quickly Western technology trends, they are not so fast in leaving it. Right now, Blackberries are one of the leading phones there, and that market's not going away. So if RIM disappears elsewhere, they may end up becoming a purely Indian mobile company, similar to Karbonn or Micromaxx.

Android with BB flavor (5, Interesting)

Andrio (2580551) | about 2 years ago | (#41435289)

1. Use Android
2. Enhance security; add exclusive BB apps.
3. Profit

No, no ??? needed. Just go straight to profit.

Re:Android with BB flavor (2)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 2 years ago | (#41435481)

That sounds completely reasonable and obvious. The problem with RIM isn't their product, it's their entire business model being outdated.

But RIM comes from a (short) history of dominating the smart phone business. I wonder if they can be rational enough to opt for a smaller marketshare of standard commodity smartphones instead of trying to regain that past glory. Perhaps RIM would be best served by simply selling their apps on all phones and get out of hardware alltogether. My guess is they'll keep trying to relive their past for a few more years, then disappear altogether or be bought.

Re:Android with BB flavor (2)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#41435579)

The problem with RIM isn't their product, it's their entire business model being outdated.

Get a government contract and hang on forever? I donno thats doing pretty well elsewhere...

RIM is already dead (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435299)

Why certain companies don't just die quickly, instead of going through long pains.
Is there any doubt still, that RIM is dead?
Heck, it was dead 5 years ago.

Re:RIM is already dead (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435363)

RIM was hardly dead 5 years ago. Android wasn't out 5 years ago, it didn't come out until 2008. 5 years ago the iPhone was just coming out and it was hardly a business ready device. Do you remember the state of Palm phones and Windows Phone 5 years ago? I doubt it.

I really enjoyed my BlackBerry 5 years ago, it was an impressive device. Heck I enjoyed my BlackBerry 10 years ago. RIM was on top of the world. Shame its basically the same thing they sell today. Arrogance, ignorance, whatever their failing was. They're done today. Had they done something good 2 years ago, maybe a different story, but 2 years is a long time in this market.

Re:RIM is already dead (0)

Barryke (772876) | about 2 years ago | (#41435799)

I declared Blackberry dead over 7 years ago.

Having experience with a SonyEricson and Windows5 phone, i found the Blackberry devices cumbersome and prehistoric, even back then. It was easyer to just carry a laptop around. To me it was clear RIM could not innovate or keep up with the features the market demanded despite their name "research in motion". Their infrastructure design was cool for the beginning of the 90's, but was only a burden afterwards.

Re:RIM is already dead (2)

JoeMerchant (803320) | about 2 years ago | (#41435875)

What kind of world is it that a company is "dead" the first quarter they don't grow their user base?

Here's a prediction: IBM is dead, it's only a matter of time, they're already slipping into obscurity.

And, while we're at it, how about Linux? I mean, really, with that pitiful market share, how long can they possibly last?

Just because Palm flamed out spectacularly doesn't mean that every handheld device maker will follow in their image when they lose market share. RIM is no longer going to conquer the whole world, but they probably have a viable customer base and market share for many years to come.

Then why are they recruiting? (2, Interesting)

stevegee58 (1179505) | about 2 years ago | (#41435301)

I was just contacted by a RIM recruiter through a certain job site. (Of course it involves moving to Canada.)

Word is out up here (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435381)

Canada doesn't have a good tech community so anyone worth their salt is getting out while the getting is good. You don't want to be in the glut of hires that'll be dumped on the market when the inevitable happens.

That said, if you want to make a quick buck and know QNX..

Re:Then why are they recruiting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435395)

I'm sure anyone who can is bailing out, and some of them will leave behind jobs that still need to be done... for awhile. Don't take that job unless you're prepared to be back out on the street soon.

Re:Then why are they recruiting? (3, Insightful)

Aqualung812 (959532) | about 2 years ago | (#41435421)

Because the people closest to the situation have decided to leave.

Re:Then why are they recruiting? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435969)

Because everyone likes a good RIM job.

Re:Then why are they recruiting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41436153)

So they can lay you off next month and claim cost saving.

cyanogenmod (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435305)

Please, just create the first official cyanogenmod phone, and promise updates for at least 3 years....

HP to the Rescue! (5, Funny)

seven of five (578993) | about 2 years ago | (#41435311)

1. Buy RIM for $10B
2. Sit on technologies for 3 years
3. ???
4. Sell what's left for 75 million
5. Profit!

3. ??? (5, Funny)

xtal (49134) | about 2 years ago | (#41435443)

Hire Carly?

Re:3. ??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435533)

She's the queen of business!

She's got great business experience! We need politicians like that. It must of been the damned liberals that kept her out of office.

Re:HP to the Rescue! (1)

JoeMerchant (803320) | about 2 years ago | (#41435887)

You forgot: Short HP.

1. Buy RIM for $10B

2. Sit on technologies for 3 years

3. ???

4. Sell what's left for 75 million

5. Profit!

Their product is done. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435315)

I recently took a job with the government - and that means I got my BlackBerry. Yay.

The products are inferior. I unfortunately selected a Torch. This thing would have been great, five years ago. The touch screen is slow to respond and the algorithm to detect touch is in need of refinement - iOS and Android are much snappier and better.

I don't know how people can type on these stupid keyboards. They're a joke. Unlike the touchscreen keyboards, they don't have any way to detect false presses easily. I've tried to get used to it. The Bold is a little better; but I stupidly went for the Torch model. The keyboard is smaller and very awkwardly placed in the model.

I also was issued a Playbook as part of a pilot. That product is so flawed as to be a joke. The wifi routinely drops or won't associate. The unit bricks itself if you leave it go dead, which happens frequently, as you're not going to be using it much.

Seriously, RIM, wtf.

All the inept management from Nortel ran to RIM. You deserve what's happening, and let this be a warning to anyone who sees Nortel and RIM management. These were two once good companies utterly shattered by inept middle management.They let this happen twice - and they'll hire their friends all over again.

Investors beware!

Alternatively (5, Insightful)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | about 2 years ago | (#41435341)

Alternatively RIM has all but stopped creating new legacy phones, and anyone who *is* interested (at least in the north american market) is pretty much waiting for BB10 devices at this point.

Financials are out this week; it'll be interesting to see if global growth did actually stop.

Re:Alternatively (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435447)

This is the correct answer. Right now, it's been over a year since RIM has updated their flagship phones. You can get a bold 9900 or a Torch 2 - and they're still fine to use - but you're paying a premium for old technology. When you add the fact that nothing they're currently selling will get an update for BBOS 10, it's pretty hard to justify a new blackberry purchase right now.

At work we've been rolling out only iPhones for the last six months. If the next range of blackberry handsets turns out decent we'll probably buy them, but right now they're making it damn difficult to be a customer.

Re:Alternatively (1)

acoustix (123925) | about 2 years ago | (#41435571)

The parent is correct. They will have an explosion of new users once BB10 devices arrive. I have a 9930 and I can't wait to upgrade.

Re:Alternatively (2)

Tridus (79566) | about 2 years ago | (#41435747)

People waiting to upgrade are not new users. They're existing users buying new phones.

That will lead to sales, but not growth in the user base.

Re:Alternatively (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41436077)

RIM abandons all their old customers by passing the buck to the telcos, so I don't expect them to support my phone anwyay. I'm not sure why you think the 9930 won't be abandoned too.

I had to upgrade my 9700 with a leak from Bittorrent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_OS [wikipedia.org] "While RIM develops and releases updated versions of its operating system to support each device, it is up to the individual carriers to decide if and when a version is released to its users."

Actually QNX could be the best ever (1)

DABANSHEE (154661) | about 2 years ago | (#41435947)

QNX/BB10 has the potential to be the best ever mobile phone OS. Of course that means close to naught in regards market-share in the tech world.

Restructure (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435357)

RIM has needed a bit of restructuring for some time. I remember reading an open letter a while back from one of the upper middle unit managers a while back -you may recall it as well. It seems like the corporate culture is directionless and myopic, as well as a bit disorganized. I think RIM and Blackberry can survive but they have to shake the "that's so 2004" shadow. Apple did it after a long slump, but they did it by really innovating, not merely copying too many years too late.

stagnation due to saturation (3, Interesting)

e**(i pi)-1 (462311) | about 2 years ago | (#41435365)

since when is stagnation the beginning of the end? We have saturation and the mobile market become more and more an upgrade game.

Re:stagnation due to saturation (2)

rgbrenner (317308) | about 2 years ago | (#41435511)

the smartphone market has grown by 38.8% in the past year [bgr.com] .

Even when the US becomes saturated, there are still international markets.

and finally, even though you are right: stagnation does not necessarily mean the end.. stagnation often does mean exactly that.

The problem is, when a company does not grow, it is essentially sitting in limbo until one of it's competitors kills it ... either by finding the next big product; or by growing large enough to enable economies of scale that the ungrowing company cannot match; or when tastes of consumers adjust, etc. It is essentially sitting still while the world and its competitors move forward.

That does not mean the company will fail... RIM could create the next great new product, and everything will be fine for the company.

Does that sound hard? It should. Which is exactly why stagnation OFTEN means eventual death.

Re:stagnation due to saturation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435927)

Wait. You mean RIM is a failing company because it has stopped making as much money as it used to? A lot of businesses would be happy to be in the black this year, but RIM is dieing because they aren't hemorrhaging cash, but hemorrhaging profit margins. Sounds like they need to release a new product and are a bad stock buy unless dividends are good, but they could be around for another decade or two at this pace.

Re:stagnation due to saturation (1)

CMYKjunkie (1594319) | about 2 years ago | (#41436031)

Agreed. And when one stagnates when your "killer new product" is not going to be out for another 4+ months... it's time to start measuring them for a casket. That timeline is assuming they don't slip again.

Terrible Phones, Anyways (0)

patchouly (1755506) | about 2 years ago | (#41435367)

Wanting to save some money, I got a Blackberry, instead of an iPhone or Android. It was a stupid mistake. The phone's quality is sub-par (I had to send it off to be repaired after the screen snapped under the pressure of my thumb, from picking it up). The menus are complicated and convoluted; nothing is where you'd think it should be and somethings need to be adjusted from several different locations (and I'm good with menus. I work with computers all day). On top of all of that, the audio, on my phone model anyway, is terrible. It's muffled and hard to hear. As soon as my commitment on this phone runs out, I am ditching this thing and never looking back.

curve (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435451)

The only reason I bought (well it was actually a free upgrade) my curve was it was one of the few remaining phones with a physical keyboard.

Re:curve (1)

nedlohs (1335013) | about 2 years ago | (#41435763)

If I go to verizon's web site there are 4 android phones with slide out physical keyboards, and 4 blackerry phones with physcial keyboards.

MAY??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435461)

May spell the end of RIM?? MAY??? Seriously, are people not paying attention?? RIM has been in a death spiral for about two years now. Their failure to recognize the impact the iPhone was going to have on the entire smartphone industry and their refusal to adapt to that change once it was undeniable already spelled the end of RIM. We're just now working through any residual momentum they have left before they either completely collapse under their own weight or sell off their assets and effectively vanish. RIM is done and has been for a long while. Anyone who's paid even a hint of attention to the industry has known this for a while.

And, yes, I know many people love Blackberrys and many people hate virtual keyboards and many people think that RIM is the pinnacle of mobile security and neither iOS nor Android can touch it but, sorry, you're in the minority now and your darling company is dead. Accept it. Everyone else has.

Re-learning the lessons of Atari (1)

concealment (2447304) | about 2 years ago | (#41435465)

Atari computers, back in the early 1980s, showed us the problem of rolling your own hardware, operating system, and software.

Any change you need to make will be (a) huge (b) require 400 internal departments to agree and (c) baffle users.

My suggestion for RIM: just go ahead and fire 2/3 of management and consolidate 2/3 of your internal teams. Then focus on using as much open source hardware and software as you can to reduce costs.

If they start doing this today, they might be able to save themselves from Chapter 11 by Christmas.

Re:Re-learning the lessons of Atari (2)

JoeMerchant (803320) | about 2 years ago | (#41435893)

And, Apple is unlearning that lesson, or what?

Re:Re-learning the lessons of Atari (1)

JDG1980 (2438906) | about 2 years ago | (#41435937)

Atari computers, back in the early 1980s, showed us the problem of rolling your own hardware, operating system, and software.

They didn't. Atari 8-bit computers used CPUs and interface chips from MOS Technologies (which was actually owned by their competitor Commodore), though they did have some ICs like the POKEY sound chip custom-fabbed. The BASIC interpreter was licensed from Microsoft, just like on Apple and Commodore computers, though all of these companies made their own customizations.

They are still the only ones outside the duopoly?? (1)

Herve5 (879674) | about 2 years ago | (#41435479)

Well I for one recently bought my very first Blackberry device (a 64-Gb Playbook, when the prices fell) for a very simple and clear reason: I want to stay out of Apple/Google duopoly.
I have been waiting for a linux tablet for a couple of years; now I feared to really turn too old before they come (I swear, I'll buy one anyhow).
While I am a bit pissed off by the ultraserious security and obviously definitive user-won't-ever-be-root feature, I find it has some positive side effects (you can lose the machine: nobody will access your data, and just buy another, all your bought applications are back).
Above all, I discover something I just didn't expect: concerning software availability, it indeed has reached, for me, the minimum level of 'floatability': various browsers of which one features adblocking, honest offline RSS viewers, a port of the Android Eye-fi receiver that does backup all my DSLR photos in the minutes I take them, young but reasonable file managers handling ftp and all your cloudy private equivalents, offline wikipedias...
So, yes, last year's Blackberry tablet is indeed bearable, for me. And does not belong to a monopoly.
I fully understand, to devs it's obviously more interesting financially to work for Apple or Android.
It's just I'm really concerned about monopolies, I suffered from some personally, and it's something I still cannot describe easily, and wouldn't wish to my worst enemy.

Flatlining sales? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435491)

If sales of blackberries are really flat lining due to market saturation does this mean next week we will be seeing headlines claiming we live in a post-mobile world?

Add me to the RIM refugees list (1)

alphadogg (971356) | about 2 years ago | (#41435559)

Have stuck it out long enough. I don't even mind the lack of apps, it's the lack of even halfway decent web access that is the killer for me. Contract ends in December, time to move on

The Solution (2)

Murdoch5 (1563847) | about 2 years ago | (#41435563)

1) Meet Deadlines!
2) Make good software!
3) Follow trends and don't attempt to set them!

If Rim just got there act together and started running like a mature company and not a cutting edge start up then they might be able to turn around.

Or maybe... (1)

Tastecicles (1153671) | about 2 years ago | (#41435587)

...it's purely down to being that everyone who *wants* a Blackberry *has* a Blackberry.

Re:Or maybe... (0)

Barryke (772876) | about 2 years ago | (#41435847)

Replace "a" with "the latest model of" and you have Apple covered as well.

RIM is already dead... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435645)

RIM is already dead and is no longer worth even posting to /.

The carcas may still have some warmth but there is no hope for revival now. There are reasons why some humans tend to hang on to things during times of mourning but it does not change the cold fact that the world has moved on.

Please consider posting ropics relevant to 2012.

Retail already knows (1)

BumpyCarrot (775949) | about 2 years ago | (#41435683)

I've never seen so many Playbooks sold as we have recently. Why? Because the price is rock bottom. This IS the end of RIM in its current guise.

May spell the end? lol.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435837)

...anyone with a brain could tell you RIM was finished years ago. If you buy a blackberry you are retarded.

RIM has one thing the other manufacturers don't... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435863)

A secure, carrier-independent global network with ridiculously configurable security policies for corporate use (via BES). That's what RIM should be banking on, and let other companies develop RIM-network smartphones for them. But it seems like too little too late though, despite the major internal progress they've made in the past year, they held onto their two stubborn CEO-duo for way too long.

Re:RIM has one thing the other manufacturers don't (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41435995)

In other words, a fragile single-point-of-failure. We already know how many times that worked out.

Re:RIM has one thing the other manufacturers don't (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41436107)

If you're going on actual history instead of magic pixie dusted history, their network hasn't gone down completely, ever. There have been a few largely-covered outages (largest being one of their primary datacentres in Eurpoe last year), but how many times has your carrier's data network failed this year?

What sort of corporate security infrastructure does any carrier have available for their devices, other than leaning on the RIM network through BIS? There's a lot more to corporate smartphone policy than being able to run TrueCrypt on your SD card.

(For the record, I own an Galaxy S3).

They aren't doing anything to help themselves (2)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 2 years ago | (#41436027)

RIM is doing a terrible job of marketing the bold and torch, which are both really good phones. They don't have them particularly widely available - and perhaps even worse, well advertised - in the US. Ask an average US consumer if they've heard of an iPhone, they'll answer yes. Heard of an android smart phone, they'll answer yes as well. Heard of a blackberry torch, they'll likely say no.

If they want to expand their user base, they should try selling phones directly to users. It works well for Apple, there is no reason why it couldn't work well for RIM as well. They don't even need to open their own stores, they could sell them through best buy, target, walmart, radio shack, etc. Sell unlocked phones with manufacturer warranties, there is a market for that if they can hit a reasonable price point and free consumers from having to sign 2-year contracts to buy a new phone.

Good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41436361)

To be honest, RIM and Blackberries aren't really that great and RIM has an antiquated and silly setup. The sooner they are gone the better.

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