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Woz Applying For Australian Citizenship Because of the NBN

Unknown Lamer posted about a year and a half ago | from the australia-will-never-let-us-forget dept.

Australia 385

An anonymous reader writes "It's a well known fact that Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak is a fan of Australia and now we know why. He supports a national broadband network — a scheme being rolled out by the Australian government to provide fibre 'for everyone' — so much he's applying for citizenship, the Australian Financial Review reports. You can be assured that he's not giving up his American citizenship though, he told Brisbane radio." And for U.S. citizens: "Despite his status as a technology icon, Mr Wozniak said he was not connected to a broadband service in his home in California, classing the options available to him as a 'monopoly.' 'There’s only one set of wires to be on and I’m not going to pull strings to get them to do something special for me,' he said .... 'I've sat with our FCC commissioner and told him that story in his office, but it’s not going to happen. We just don’t have the political idea to bring broadband to all the people who are 1 kilometer too far away.'"

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385 comments

That's like applying to be Canadian... (4, Insightful)

Kenja (541830) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446177)

just cause you dont think health care should be a for profit industry... hum... never mind, perhaps Woz is on to something.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (3, Funny)

crafty.munchkin (1220528) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446315)

One would hope he's moving here for the beaches and beer as well as the healthcare and NBN!

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (2)

crafty.munchkin (1220528) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446353)

Also, in case he does actually read articles about himself - I also hope he's checked out where it's been rolled out to already and where it is scheduled to be rolled out to [nbnco.com.au] before purchasing/renting a house... because otherwise he will have to deal with Telstra instead.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (4, Insightful)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446425)

Or iiNet/Internode, who have actively worked to thwart bad internet regulations on behalf of their customers.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (1)

mjwx (966435) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446593)

Or iiNet/Internode, who have actively worked to thwart bad internet regulations on behalf of their customers.

Just to be pedantic, Internode is now iinet. So it's just iinet, Adam and a few others.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446375)

And the numerous hot chicks who will spread their legs for anyone with a North American accent.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446479)

Stop. Rewind.

Sooo... all those super hot Australian chicks have a thing for North Americans? And we can do dual-citizenship? And you have national broadband? Da fuck am I doing, sitting here waiting for snow?

Er, wait... did you guys do anything about all those deadly creatures crawling around your city streets?

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (2, Insightful)

crafty.munchkin (1220528) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446489)

Sorry, the deadly creatures and the super hot chicks are a package deal. ;)

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (3, Insightful)

Genda (560240) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446719)

You goof, the Hot Chicks, are the Deadly Creatures... leave it to a Slashdotter.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446505)

>Er, wait... did you guys do anything about all those deadly creatures crawling around your city streets?

What, Bogans? They only think that they're dangerous.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446545)

That is hilarious.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446563)

The chicks aren't that hot (sure we have a couple, but every country does). The lots of beaches mean they are more likely to take off their clothes though. Places like Finland and Estonia have the really hot chicks. The accent thing is also true, but same goes for most women and foreign accents.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446529)

Seriously? Because American chicks get the same way for Aussie accents. ...American and Aussie nerds should all get together and swap places so we can all get laid!

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (3, Funny)

Genda (560240) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446721)

Do not take this advice!!! Breeding Nerds would threaten the integrity of the Space Time Continuum... go back to reading "Onan the Barbarian" and pretend you never saw this.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446903)

Why is this modded -1? It's true.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446409)

How so? There are extraordinarily few similarities between Australia and Canada. Poles apart, almost literally.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (5, Insightful)

MachDelta (704883) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446853)

I'd argue that Canada and Australia, despite their vast physical separation, and despite variations in detail (eg: they love rugby and we love hockey - but we both love "our" sports) are remarkably similar in general. We share many themes (commonwealth, beer, sports, left/liberal/egalitarian society, native/aboriginal influences, native/aboriginal issues, sense of humour, cultural inferiority complex, etc) for being so very different in specifics. We're a sort of mirror image of each other, and there's almost a natural fit between the two nations as a result.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (0, Flamebait)

Mashiki (184564) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446705)

Except in Canada we do have for profit health care, it's regulated by the provinces under the each provinces healthcare act. We even have several for-profit clinics in operation or rather I should say we did, like Shouldice(hernias) which was one of the best in the world.

Meh let me point this out like I have several times in the past. The difference between Canadian healthcare and Obamacare is this: The provinces(aka state level) is responsible(unless something is seriously screwed up). Not the federal government, unless there are very specific cases(natives, or military or territories). Leaving the federal government in charge of something as important as healthcare is disastrous. Anyone who thinks that Obamacare is a good idea needs to get their head out of their ass.

Re:That's like applying to be Canadian... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446901)

Yeah, he's on to "make shitloads of money in the US based on entrepreneurship and lack of dancing skills" and then "move to another country when I'm richer than God and want to make a political statement and/or protect my assets".

sex with a fucking duck! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446193)

Welcome to Niggerbuntu

Niggerbuntu is a Linux-based operating system consisting of Free and Open Source software for laptops, desktops, and servers. Niggerbuntu has a clear focus on the user and usability - it should Just Work, even if the user has only the thinking capacities of a sponge. the OS ships with the latest Gnomrilla release as well as a selection of server and desktop software that makes for a comfortable desktop experience off of a single installation CD.

It also features the packaging manager ape-ghetto, and the challenging Linux manual pages have been reformatted into the new 'monkey' format, so for example the manual for the shutdown command can be accessed just by typing: 'monkey shut-up -h now mothafukka' instead of 'man shutdown'.

Absolutely Free of Charge

Niggerbuntu is free software, and available to you free of charge, as in free beer or free stuffs you can get from looting. It's also Free in the sense of giving you rights of Software Freedom. The freedom, to run, copy, steal, distribute, study, share, change and improve the software for any purpose, without paying licensing fees.

Free software as in free beer !

Niggerbuntu is an ancient Nigger word, meaning "humanity to monkeys". Niggerbuntu also means "I am what I am because of how apes behave". The Niggerbuntu Linux distribution brings the spirit of Niggerbuntu to the software world.

The dictator Bokassa described Niggerbuntu in the following way:

        "A subhuman with Niggerbuntu is open and available to others (like a white bitch you're ready to fsck), affirming of others, does not feel threatened by the fact that other species are more intelligent than we are, for it has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that it belongs to the great monkey specie."

We chose the name Niggerbuntu for this distribution because we think it captures perfectly the spirit of sharing and looting that is at the heart of the open source movement.

Niggerbuntu - Linux for Subhuman Beings.

Re:sex with a fucking duck! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446333)

What is the advantage of Niggerbuntu, which seems to be a fork of the for humans distribution Ubuntu rebuilt for niggers, as opposed to Linux for Niggers (http://linuxforniggers.us/) which was built by the niggers at the GNAA from the ground up with the needs of other niggers in mind?

Thats no way to be a good citizen (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446195)

Being a good citizen means fighting tooth and nail for what you want for your country. It doesnt mean jumping ship because it doesn't have this one thing you want. There is a lot not to like about America but to simply move to a whole different country after just some talks with local government? Seems like an overreaction.

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (2, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446265)

Being a good citizen means fighting tooth and nail for what you want for your country. It doesnt mean jumping ship because it doesn't have this one thing you want. There is a lot not to like about America but to simply move to a whole different country after just some talks with local government? Seems like an overreaction.

America won't have 100Mb/s broadband until the cable and telcos have finished squeezing ever last cent they can out of copper. (Or until someone comes along and starts taking their future profits away by building it now.)

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446279)

okay but what is he going to be doing in Australia with 100Mb/s that he cant do in America with a slower connection. Also I though Kansas was or someplace was using Google's fiber connection?

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (1)

Vectronic (1221470) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446421)

Who knows?...

I'll claim a surplus of ignorance about many specifics, but wouldn't:
1. An X/s optical connection be more consistent regarding speed?
2. Downloading a DVD in 7 minutes isn't really necessary... but it's nice.
3. If everyone/majority has Jigabytes of speed... how would that change the internet, what would become possible/everyday because of it?
4. Wouldn't it be... at least slightly... less prone to acts of God and his daggers of electrical wrath, waves of mutilation, pee... and such?

Probably less to do with "I need pr0n right MEOW!!!" and more about the fact it exists, so... why not?... and if everyone can have it, cool, lets do some shit.

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446451)

Or until someone comes along and starts taking their future profits away by building it now.

Yeah.. someone tried that, it didn't go so well [arstechnica.com] when they got sued by the Telco.

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446597)

I live in vermont and they have been laying fiber all over the state the last few years. A combined effort between U of Vermont, TDS communications o VT , Vtel of Southern VT. In 2014 we will have the most wire broadband state in the country. Direct fiber drops to every house that wants it and WOW ( Wide open Wireless ) to communities that they can not string the fiber to. Essentially 4G, All backed by fiber backbones.

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (5, Insightful)

steveaustin1971 (1094329) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446643)

I actually believe allegiance to country is a silly concept. I was born in Canada, but I have lived all over. I will go where I see the most benefit for me and my family. I have no allegiance to Canada beyond wishing her well. I have one life, I will not spend it fussing over imaginary lines in the dirt.

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (1)

Garridan (597129) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446783)

My biggest stumbling block to becoming a Canadian citizen is pledging allegience to the queen. It's mandatory for new citizens.

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (3, Insightful)

donscarletti (569232) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446435)

Australia is a nation built on immigration and welcomes those who aspire to the Australian way of life, in the same way as the Puritans, Unitarians, Amish and other religious folks left Europe for the American Colonies all those centuries ago, rather than fighting tooth and nail for religious freedom in the countries of their birth. Conversely, guys like Rupert Murdoch and Mel Gibson are also welcome to fuck off at their own pleasure.

American born Australians are welcome to participate and integrate fully into Australian public life, we even had an American born Premier of New South Wales recently.

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446553)

You do know history, right? since you qouted them, then you know of course when they came here, they tortured and killed people who didn't accpet them or insulted them or didn't convert to their religion......

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (5, Funny)

mjwx (966435) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446649)

Australia is a nation built on immigration and welcomes those who aspire to the Australian way of life, in the same way as the Puritans, Unitarians, Amish and other religious folks left Europe for the American Colonies all those centuries ago, rather than fighting tooth and nail for religious freedom in the countries of their birth. Conversely, guys like Rupert Murdoch and Mel Gibson are also welcome to fuck off at their own pleasure.

American born Australians are welcome to participate and integrate fully into Australian public life, we even had an American born Premier of New South Wales recently.

This is the Australia of the past, where the displaced Greeks and Itailians came in droves after the war, the 10 pound poms after them seeking a better life on our fair shores. All this started turning around in the 80s as demonstrated in the documentary Romper Stomper.

The Australia of today is a very different place where immigrants are treated with disgust and suspicion, the evil brown people are accused of turking jerbs, you're told to Fit In or Fuck Off, because all the immigrants need to Fuck Off Were Full, or so the stickers on the back of chevrodores keep telling us. I mean how can the Bogan have 3 kids and if we're that full. How can the Bogan afford his jet ski and McMansion if the Abbos keep taking all his tax money, after deduction he's already taxed at 20% which barely pays for the money the government gives him for child care.

How is the Bogan supposed to drink a bottle of Jimmy and threaten to "smash" everyone on his stumble home if this keeps happening. Wont someone think of the Bogan?

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (2)

humanrev (2606607) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446825)

All this started turning around in the 80s as demonstrated in the documentary Romper Stomper.

Ah yes, I remember that one. It's worth mentioning that one of the participants of that documentary (Russell Crowe) was a host on another documentary entitled "Fightin' Around the World with Russell Crowe". It was very educational. I remember this altercation:

Man: Oh my God! It's Russell Crowe!
Russell Crowe: (taunting) Oh my God, it's Russell Crowe! Oh my blah blah blah blah blah! (normal) Why don't you mind your own business, you scrotum? (attacks him)

Of course I'm already an Aussie so it's in my blood anyway. Time to fight cancer!

Re:Thats no way to be a good citizen (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446883)

Too right mate. I've watched this country go from multiculturalism and freedom, to a bunch of racists who want everything monitored and smothered with laws.

"Not giving up his American Citizenship" (0)

TinyPterosaur (2547992) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446197)

Yeah, cause the US allows you to hold dual-citizenship in a nation you weren't born in/claimed before you turned 18. Wait... The other thing. Or is that only a rule for poor people?

Re:"Not giving up his American Citizenship" (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446275)

You could Google dual citizenship and check the first result: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Re:"Not giving up his American Citizenship" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446511)

I'm a dual citizen with the US and Australia. The US doesn't disallow it, but also don't care. In their eyes you're always a US citizen. (You can't enter the US on your other passport, for example, whereas you CAN do that in Australia).

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

How is he going to become a citizen? (1, Informative)

pokoteng (2729771) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446231)

I thought Australian immigration requires anyone to be of at least 1 or 2 years (depending on few factors) as a permanent resident before they can apply to become a citizen, and becoming a PR in itself takes a while. Maybe easier to get the PR status for him due to his status and wealth, but citizenship is entirely different, I think? Possibly also requires certain amount of stay in the country to earn it. Would appreciate if any /.er has better detail on immigration requirements.

Because otherwise this just sounds like a really early non-news. Good on him for coming over to this side of the oceans though.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446255)

Sheesh anybody who's getting Dual Citizenship is just a whiney bitch. If you aren't willing to jump both feet in, then you shouldn't be qualifying for citizenship.

It's one of the reasons I haven't emigrated from the US yet. All the complaints I have about the US qualify for becoming a citizen of a foreign state (and all of them either have similiarly bad laws if different in topic and scope, or are working very hard to reach a similiar level as the US).

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446817)

Damn right the dualies are whiny bitches. I'm a triple citizen, sucka! I carry 3 passports, and I can work without a visa in the US, Canada, and the EU. Don't hate, citizenship isn't all about undying devotion. I'm sick of the crap that every country in the world pulls, but at least I get to vote in three of them.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446257)

Sponsor...It was an option for me. As was a marriage visa.

But being a permanent resident visa was easiest.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (1, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446271)

I thought Australian immigration requires anyone to be of at least 1 or 2 years (depending on few factors) as a permanent resident before they can apply to become a citizen, and becoming a PR in itself takes a while. Maybe easier to get the PR status for him due to his status and wealth, but citizenship is entirely different, I think? Possibly also requires certain amount of stay in the country to earn it. Would appreciate if any /.er has better detail on immigration requirements.

Because otherwise this just sounds like a really early non-news. Good on him for coming over to this side of the oceans though.

Well, the downside is they'll censor everything he likes about the internet. That's the major problem with the Aussie government, they don't feel like people should have rights.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (2)

1u3hr (530656) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446317)

Well, the downside is they'll censor everything he likes about the internet. That's the major problem with the Aussie government, they don't feel like people should have rights.

There are certainly people who have proposed to do that, as others have in the US and every other country, but so far it isn't in practice. If Woz really does become an Oz, then I'm sure he would be an activist on preventing this.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (1)

donscarletti (569232) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446367)

Oh, they definitely believe that people have rights.

They just believe that these rights should be determined and redefined by the federal and state legislatures pretty much whenever they feel like it.

I think it scares the crap out of pretty much everyone but the sitting government, but it is marginally less scary than the second amendment and the constitution does guarantee the right to pick a new bunch of oppressors every 3 years.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (2)

Narnie (1349029) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446507)

I don't know what's better, a government that determines and redefines your rights at their leisure or a government that defines your rights, and then passes secret and not-so-secret laws that supersede and suspend your rights for the government's convenience.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (0)

whoever57 (658626) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446355)

I thought Australian immigration requires anyone to be of at least 1 or 2 years (depending on few factors) as a permanent resident before they can apply to become a citizen,

Many countries have loopholes for people with enough money.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446581)

Australia likes immigrants to start paying taxes right away instead of bumming off down to centrelink for a dole cheque.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (1)

HJED (1304957) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446437)

My information may be a bit outdated, but you have to be a permanent resident (which also requires you to have lived in Aus for a number of year) and on a permanent resident visa stayed inside Australia for 5 years.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (1)

jampola (1994582) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446619)

You're almost right. It's usually 1 - 2 years you're on a bridging visa whilst your PR gets approved (bridging visa usually entitled you to work and gain a blue medicare card so you can claim medical benefits...really!)

After that point your PR gets approved, you're free to apply for Citizenship whenever you like. But to be honest, the Citizenship only gives you the option to vote and I think that's about it.

Re:How is he going to become a citizen? (1)

fm6 (162816) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446683)

I believe there are shortcuts, especially for rich people. Even if there aren't this is Steve Wozniak we're talking about. The prestige he brings with him is major in any case, and the suggestion that Australia network infrastructure is superior to American doesn't exactly work against him.

Legal roadblocks? You pass a private bill [wikipedia.org] creating a loophole.

'monopoly' (0)

mfwitten (1906728) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446259)

What bigger monopoly is there than Government? I'd rather my ISP not be an organization that can take my resources by threat of violence, especially when I disagree with what they're doing with those resources.

Re:'monopoly' (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446291)

Thank you. The US should look more to the source of its problems being government granting monopolies and mucking around forbidding "last drop" digital fiber to houses.

Re:'monopoly' (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446637)

Do you have any idea what the NBN is?

Perhaps if you were to Google it before worrying about "granting monopolies, you could have avoided looking very foolish. The NBN is an INFRASTRUCTURE project, along the lines of a replacement for the existing copper wires.

There will be many ISPs offering plans on the NBN backbone. No government granted monopolies.

Re:'monopoly' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446663)

" phew...

Re:'monopoly' (2)

TWX (665546) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446307)

Your ISP doesn't have to take your resources by threat of violence, they can *gasp!* get the government to take them on their behalf.

For a lot of essential services, you may as well take out the middle-man.

Or, require there to be more than one provider. I wonder how much Woz has looked into DSL, in that one may still have to get one's line from the local phone company, but one can steer one's account to a network of a different provider. Once that's done it's not a whole lot different that dialing into one's ISP by way of the telephone company was. For a time I had a DSL account that gave me eight usable static IPs at home with full reverse resolve and everything, with everything I wanted to run my own mail, FTP, DNS, and HTTP.

Re:'monopoly' (0)

mfwitten (1906728) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446381)

Therefore, the problem is still Government.

There doesn't need to be more than one provider; there just needs to be no provider that decrees my resources to be its resources.

Any organization—any organization at all—that confiscates resources by threat of strike-first violence is a "governmental" organization. When one such organization becomes a monopoly, we call that organization "Government".

Government is simply a bad company that doesn't go out of business because it is able to confiscate your resources by threat of violence; it doesn't give you the goods and services for which you personally think you are paying, but you have to pay them anyway—it's totally absurd and unconscionable.

It is not a modern value to coerce resources from people by threat of violence. So, in fact, governments are actually the last barbaric vestige of a pre-modern civilization.

Re:'monopoly' (1)

similar_name (1164087) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446525)

I'm curious how you picture society without a government at all.

Re:'monopoly' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446633)

Easy. Think of the regions of Mexico controlled by the drug cartels. Everyone there is free from government influence and can do anything they want so long as the local boss wants that done.

Re:'monopoly' (0)

mfwitten (1906728) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446695)

So, at worst , you end up with Government.

Here, you brush up against one truth: What determines the success of a society is its culture—that is, the shared values that have been internalized by each individual in a given population. This is why it is impossible "to export Democracy" to third-word theocrats (especially by bombing their villages); they just don't have the culture to support it properly.

However, voting in a western democracy isn't magical; it requires the men with guns to have a culture that values voting, which is no more special than to have a culture that values, say, the libertarian philosophy's Non-aggression Principle (which leads to anarcho-capitalism).

Re:'monopoly' (3, Insightful)

meglon (1001833) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446647)

Yes, you can redefine any word to mean anything you want.... it really doesn't help your case in the eyes of rational people.

A private company isn't bound by the Bill of Rights, and it can refuse to serve you if it wants. Only one ISP in your area.... and they choose to refuse service to you? Too fucking bad, you're SOL. That is the cornerstone of the free market. That doesn't make them a government organization, and anyone who thinks that's what it means is a fucking idiot.

If you really hate governments so much, move to a country where what little government there is has no power... like Somalia. There you can bitch and complain that the local "monopoly" on rules and regulations, AKA: private criminal organization, will shove their AK's up your ass if you don't do what they say. At least you won't have a "government" to protect your basic rights.

Government isn't a company. It can't be run as a company, and works in a role pretty much opposite of what a business does.

You have not been coerced into using roadways, breathing clean air, drinking clean water, eating safe food, using safe products, or the myriad of other services you use EVERY SINGLE DAY that are provided BY THE GOVERNMENT; but you are expected to help pay for those.

The problem is: there too many idiots who have their heads stuck up their ideologies asses in this country.

Re:'monopoly' (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446725)

The cornerstone of the free market is that if there is only one ISP in your area you can open a competing ISP. It is goverment enforced monopoly arrangements that prevent this.

Re:'monopoly' (4, Informative)

HJED (1304957) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446443)

NBN is a wholesaler they are specifically forbidden by legislation from becoming an ISP, all ISPs (E.g. Telstra, Optus, iiNet) can resell on the NBN network.

Re:'monopoly' (1)

mfwitten (1906728) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446467)

That's irrelevant; it's ultimately smoke and mirrors.

Re:'monopoly' (1)

HJED (1304957) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446559)

Considering that the copper network is already owned by one company (Telstra), the creation of the actually changes this for the better, because Telstra is an ISP (although they where required to sell space at there exchanges and lines to other providers) and they where quite anti-competitive.The Internet is now considered an essential service and this allows everyone to have access to it. (And FYI NBN is required to make money after a few years.)

Re:'monopoly' (1)

mathew42 (2475458) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446785)

Totally wrong! The only major transformation in the broadband market has been by RSPs installing their own DSLAMs in exchanges and leasing Telstra's copper line. Instantly we went from 1.5Mbps to the best the copper would support (up to 24Mbps).

There is this misconception that NBNCo management will be different compared to Telstra, but human nature is such that monopolies tend to deliver poor value over time. We have already seen this through NBNCo attempting to prevent wireless operators from promoting their service as a competitor. The ACCC mandated 121 separate networks (PoIs). A more sensible option would be for the government to invite tenders to run each of the PoIs for a fixed period of time (5-10 years). This is done in other industries (e.g. public transport) where a natural monopoly exists or a monopoly exists.

NBNCo wholesale charges will be the biggest single cost to RSPs. RSPs will have no alternative but to pay. NBNCo have in their wisdom chosen to charge a sliding scale for speed (AVC) and for data (CVC). The effect of this is that we are going to have fibre capable of 1Gbps to which half the country connect at 12/1Mbps (NBNCo Corporate Plan). I can appreciate the need to charge for data, because that is what places the load on the network, but if you are restricting consumption through data there is no need to restrict speed.

Woz is wise in moving to Australia, because the rich will have their fast 1Gbps connections (at least $250/month) subsidised by the poor with their 12/1Mbps connections ($50/month). If it wasn't a national roll out, then it would be too expensive to roll out just for those prepared to pay for a 100Mbps or faster connection. A similar situation exists with electricity infrastructure where transmission lines have been upgraded to support MacMansions with multiple air-conditioners. The cost of the infrastructure upgrades are then shared across the network, including those too poor to pay the running expenses for an air-con.

Re:'monopoly' (1)

norpy (1277318) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446627)

Are you saying you would prefer competition at the last-mile infrastructure level?

Doing that you will either end up with many small regional monopolies with no incentive to offer the best service because of their captive audience AND lose efficiencies of scale.
    - OR -
You will have multiple sets of last-mile infrastructure which are horrendously expensive to build and maintain, which means that you will end up higher prices and/or longer payback times on your capital expenditure.

NBNCo is only providing network between the customer and the nearest of 120 points of interconnect, the ISP is tasked with renting/purchsing/installing backhaul from there to their own network. They are also responsible for marketing, peering, international transit, connecting voip calls and all the other things that an ISP does that are above the last mile layer2 network.
They have set pricing that is available to any ISP that wishes to purchase from them, just becuase they will be a monoply (because nobody would be stupid enough to try and compete with them just like nobody is stuipd enough to overbuild telstra's PSTN copper) does not mean they are not a wholesaler only.

Re:'monopoly' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446523)

And now you know why you have participatory government. That means you get a chance to participate.

You do not get unilateral decision making power though, such ultimate consensual ideas are the idea of certain anarchist and libertarian groups, but they haven't gained traction yet for various reasons.

Sorry, but the rest of us aren't going to sit and suffer because you decide to be a curmudgeon for whatever reason.

Dumb (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446261)

If you apply for Australian citizenship on those grounds (the NBN fail) you are a bloody idiot.

Re:Dumb (4, Informative)

jonwil (467024) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446411)

As someone who is currently watching Telstra upgrade the infrastructure (pits etc) on my street in preparation for the NBN roll-out in my area, I can say that the NBN is most definatly NOT a fail (not compared to the Liberal alternative of fiber-to-the-node or the current situation of ADSL if you are lucky, overpriced 3G if you are not)

+1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446287)

Finaly somebody says it plain. +1 for Woz

Really (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446345)

Woz needs to get with Groggy and ask him about his pain! Or get with Assange and ask about the listening in on his email and IP/Voice conversations.

With all due respect to the Woz (1)

Compaqt (1758360) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446373)

Despite his status as a technology icon, Mr Wozniak said he was not connected to a broadband service in his home in California, classing the options available to him as a 'monopoly.'

The National Broadband Network does not seem to be a plural.

Re:With all due respect to the Woz (4, Informative)

HJED (1304957) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446457)

The NBN is a wholesaler, they are forbidden by legislation from becoming an ISP and all ISPs can sell through them (E.g. Telstra, iiNet, Optus)

and will he like monitoring and censorship? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446385)

Our governments failed bid to push through mandatory internet censorship based on a secret blacklist using categories similar to how movies are rated is going to be pushed through once they have a monopoly on the network. The existing blacklist was reversed engineered and included political discussions, satanic websites, "vanilla" gay porn, fetish web sites, even an australian dentist had been blacklisted for months.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/censorship-the-real-sleeper-in-the-governments-43bn-nbn-chaos/story-e6frg9bx-1225942946358

http://www.internetblackout.com.au/

Or how about mandatory ISP level data retention? Every thing you read and view on the internet will have its address stored and logged against your name and address in a format accessible to the government and its agencies. They will log who you communicate with.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coalition-mps-hit-out-against-data-retention/story-fn59niix-1226471898912

http://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/protect-us-but-respect-us/discussion-paper

The NBN in australia is a joke. It will become a monopoly as soon as our government changes and the equivalent of your republicans get into power and sell it off to be a private asset, as they did with out telephony network, which was a shambles.

So secret censorship. Mandatory data retention for years including what sites you visit and who you email. And a large monopoly public funded network which will be handed to private business on a silver platter.

You're welcome here Woz. I'll swap you for your american citizenship.

stupid (0)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446447)

I'm all pro-internet and stuff, obviously, but before a government gets fiber to everyone in a country, maybe they should get everyone an emergency kit, basic medical care, a place to live, proper nutritional assistance, their own bomb shelter for nuclear war, a gun, a more efficient car, a water filtration system, money off their taxes, a vote that actually counts, additional insulation, their own surveillance and security system, or just money. I don't actually think they should buy them those things but they'd certainly come before fiber to the household.
Well, sorry that you're susceptible to a global warming-induced global food meltdown but at least your internet went from 5Mbps to 50Mbps. Oh and those homeless kids, well, at least they can go to the library and play minecraft with no lag. Seriously! This is a completely unacceptable thing for any government to spend money on right now.

I've got no problem with fiber backbone upgrades though, just needless residential connections.

Re:stupid (1)

1u3hr (530656) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446533)

I'm all pro-internet and stuff, obviously, but before a government gets fiber to everyone in a country, maybe they should get everyone an emergency kit, ...

Yeah, because governments can only do one thing at a time. They only have one department that can either provide health care or internet, but not both.

The reason NBN is a priority is that it is expected to boost economic productivity. If it works out, it will help finance all the other things on your list. Worst case, it will boost the technology sector and give some people jobs laying fibre at least. the investment is relatively small compared to universal health care, defence, education, roads ...

Re:stupid (0)

kwiqsilver (585008) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446699)

Yeah, because governments can only do one thing at a time. They only have one department that can either provide health care or internet, but not both.

Well, they haven't solved all the other problems: many people don't get adequate medical care in a timely fashion, kids go to bed hungry, people still live on the streets, etc.
I'm also not suggesting that the government should supply any of these things, because government does a crappy job at a higher price. But if they are going to steal my hard earned money to pay for it, I'd prefer they pay for a necessity for the lower class, not a subsidy for the upper class masquerading as a luxury for the middle class.
Fortunately for me, I'm an American; my government mostly spends the borrowed savings of Chinese and Japanese people, and will never pay back more than a fraction of the original amount, so when they waste billions, I'm not on the hook.
I suspect part of the reason for this push (if Australia's government is anything like the USA government...and it is) is that some private corporations wanted to expand their holdings, but didn't want to have to actually pay for it, so they called some friends in Parliament and wrote some checks, and voila! And the MPs probably didn't complain when they heard that they would be able to control the single, centralized network for spying, censorship, or other nefarious purposes.

Re:stupid (3, Insightful)

1u3hr (530656) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446751)

they haven't solved all the other problems

They never will. So we shouldn't try to solve any problems at all. Just give up because perfection is impossible.

Re:stupid (5, Informative)

Bremic (2703997) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446661)

Emergency Kit = Australia has extremely good emergency response (SES, Fire Services, Police, Ambulance Services) for everyone.
Basic Medical Care = Medicare. Quality health care for anyone all billed directly to the government.
Place to Live = Low homeless rate and good quality government housing.
Proper Nutritional Assistance = Covered under Medicare
Bomb Shelter = We aren't paranoid.
Gun = Don't want em.
Efficient Car = Some excellent cars available if people want them, but many still drive SUVs or low efficient cars through choice.
Water Filtration System = We have excellent tap water in most cities. One exception, and they have alternatives in place.
Money off their taxes = We have a AAA economy still.
Vote that actually counts = Compulsory voting and our representatives will generally talk to us if we need them to.
Additional Insulation = Been there, was a waste of money.
Own surveillance and security system = What now? See point 1.
Money = AAA economy. Strong dollar.
Food talks = We produce most of our own food and export almost as much again.

Looks like we covered your bases. Time to build us an Internet that's better.

Want fiber (4, Funny)

kamapuaa (555446) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446461)

This sucks, in Tokyo they've have fiber for years. I can illegally download a movie in a minute instead of like three minutes.

Sorry, Woz (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446517)

Woz, I used to have a great deal of respect for you. It's obvious that you've had the wool pulled over your eyes on more than one front.

Mr Wozniak told The Australian Financial Review in Sydney that he had spoken to Communications Minister Stephen Conroy and was in support of the federal government’s fibre rollout. “I spoke to him and they plan to roll it out to everyone in the country,” Mr Wozniak said.

Bullshit. 95% of the Australian population has cellular coverage at the moment because that proportion of the population is congregated in the coastal areas where it's easy for the telcos to provide cellular towers. Only 90% of that proportion of the population is going to be anywhere near the National Broadband Network. I live in Mount Gravatt (QLD, 4122), within a couple of kilometres of the nearest telephone exchange and have to put up with shitty ADSL courtesy of the encumbent ex-government telco, Telstra. The NBN is not scheduled to be rolled in our suburb any time within the next three years. Maybe 30-40% of the greater Brisbane area will have NBN coverage in the next 3 years. REF: http://www.nbnco.com.au/rollout/rollout-map.html [nbnco.com.au]

And Stephen Conroy wants to put internet censorship in place on the Australian networks. The list of censored sites are protected secrets under law and there is no process to appeal if your business happens to wind up censored. Doctors, dentists and family welfare groups got blackballed during the trials in Tasmania, so you don't have to be pushing porn or terrorist materials to get sunk. Is that the kind of country you want to live in?

“I’m not an expert on banking but bankers have told us how important this technology is to them and it is one of our big customer areas,” he said. “Some success in banking is all done in computers nowadays, not through humans, and milliseconds matter, the speed of transactions matter to them.”

More bullshit. Banks still take 3-7 days to clear a cheque (check, if you're a yankie), same as 100 years ago. Nearly-instant transfers are not applied for the benefit of customers.

Fuck off! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446539)

Let me be the first one to say fuck you yer cunt

Reall? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446541)

Does he know how much the net is censored in Australia?? whats the use of having a the fastest net connection available, when you can't go anywhere

Asset (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446585)

Woz will surely be a welcome asset to our country.

Woz 4 Oz! (1)

klingers48 (968406) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446635)

As an Aussie, I say bring on the Woz! Total validation for our fantastic NBN and potentially a great addition to our national IQ.

Australian citizenship. (5, Informative)

SteveWoz (152247) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446671)

This "well known fact" is news to me.

I have not applied for Australian citizenship but have taken some first steps towards it. I would very gladly be a devoted and loyal Australian. This has nothing to do with the NBN, which I do praise in concept, regardless of whether it even exists. I would love to be an Australian even with lower bandwidth like I have today in the States. I do applaud any attempts toward inclusion of all. For things as important as broadband, we should deal with our fellows as family and take care of those who just live in the wrong place. That's my personal opinion but it has nothing to do with why I would love to reside in Australia.

Cheers, mates

Re:Australian citizenship. (1)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446765)

For things as important as broadband, we should deal with our fellows as family and take care of those who just live in the wrong place.
 
First of all, hi Woz if that's really you :) I don't know about your family, but in mine we don't force everybody to help less fortunate country dwellers get broadband where they live, especially since they don't help us, city dwellers, pay our rent and other higher costs of living. There are pros and cons to living in the middle of nowhere, and yet for some reasons the cons (high cost of mail delivery, higher cost of phone, electricity, water and now broadband hookups etc) need to be subsidized by us even though the overall cost of living is still MUCH lower than say in NYC. Can they also treat me like family and pay half of my $2000/month rent?

Re:Australian citizenship. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446891)

We welcome you Woz, but you better start practising for the Citizenship test. :)

http://www.citizenship.gov.au/learn/cit_test/practice/

Pot, kettle... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446723)

He bemoans the options available for his internet connection as a "monopoly", but Apple strives to be one when it comes to available content from the 'net. Think the lock-ins for iTunes and Apple Store to name just two.

Why not Europe instead? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446743)

Australia seems like a bad choice. Regulated Internet, bad latency to pretty much everything, nasty wildlife, religious christian zealotry among times. But nice weather I guess?

Come to the Netherlands Woz, here you can get cable Internet via multiple providers, DSL (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL2) via multiple providers, fiber-to-the-home in many cities (again with your own choice of provider). I had VDSL2 (50/5Mbps) when the city council decided that everyone should have the option of FTTH within 4 years. Now I'm on 100/100 FTTH. In some placed my ISP of choice is experimenting with providing 500/500Mbps. That's half a Gbps.

NBN Snooping (1)

CuteSteveJobs (1343851) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446855)

Someone tell Woz we Australia doesn't have a Bill of Rights and the government is busy taking away the few rights we have. Does anyone else think one of the reasons the gov't is pushing the NBN is because it provides a bottle-neck for them to snoop on us?

Choose: 1. Freedom and ADSL2+ or 2. the NBN

I pick 1.

Filtered/monitored Internet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446859)

Doesn't Australia have their internet networks filtered and monitored?

A Hero Falls (1)

FrankDrebin (238464) | about a year and a half ago | (#41446889)

Woz was a great engineer, and has always had his eccentric side, but this is borderline kooky. Acquiring citizenship is not like changing cellular carriers, even if you are rich or famous. And while NBN may be a laudable notion, has he considered the internet censorship [wikipedia.org] that may well hamper its use?

Hey Woz, it's not all it's cracked up to be (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41446907)

I live in rural Australia, 50 km from a regional centre and 20 km from the nearest town. Not exactly the middle of nowhere. There are no plans to roll out the NBN to my area. None at all. If they finally get the NBN satellites up, I may be able to get something a little better than the really slow, unreliable 3G wireless "broadband" I get now, but that will be in a few years' time, if ever. Meanwhile, there is just one supplier who covers this area - a true monopoly - and they charge accordingly - $90 per month for a 15 Gb download (and upload) limit, typical speeds about 500kb/sec.

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