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Intel CEO Tells Staff Windows 8 Is Being Released Prematurely

Unknown Lamer posted about 2 years ago | from the release-early-release-often dept.

Bug 269

An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from Geek.com: "Intel CEO Paul Otellini may be getting an angry phone call from Steve Ballmer today after it was revealed he told staff in Taiwan Windows 8 isn't ready for release. Otellini's comments were made at an internal meeting in Taipai, and he must have naively thought they would never become public knowledge. We don't know if he went into detail about what exactly is unfinished about Windows 8, but others have commented about a lack of reliable driver support and supporting applications. For many who have picked up previous versions of the Windows desktop OS early, this probably isn't coming as a surprise."

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Been testing Windows 8 (-1, Troll)

devlil (2739741) | about 2 years ago | (#41463105)

I've been testing Windows 8 for some while and I must say it's borderline awesome to use.

It is ugly though in Desktop mode. (3, Interesting)

MnemonicMan (2596371) | about 2 years ago | (#41463173)

Aero looks much, much nicer than a flat rectangle that is one color. It's too bad that the window chrome got bashed so bad. Of course a likely reason for it is that tablets will run primarily on battery and Aero might be a drain on that.

Re:It is ugly though in Desktop mode. (0, Troll)

devlil (2739741) | about 2 years ago | (#41463205)

I have been enjoying the flat interface of Visual Studio (yes, really). I think it looks very nice and simplified. It's weird that Slashdotters now want Aero, especially after saying Aero was so bad and they continued to use the old windows classic theme,

Re:It is ugly though in Desktop mode. (4, Insightful)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#41463291)

I think Aero just took a while to get used to. When I first started using Win7, I disabled it. It wasn't until I got some hardware with enough power that Aero's extra resources were negligible that I gave it a chance; I still don't love it, but I don't mind having it on. Whenever Windows does the next big UI change, people will probably wonder why they can't stick with the Win8 design.

"Slashdotters..." (1)

MnemonicMan (2596371) | about 2 years ago | (#41463323)

Any caricature is bound to be inaccurate to actual individuals contained within it. Yes, I read Slashdot, yes, I run Linux - typing this on that right now, and yes, sitting right next to me is my other machine which is running Windows 7. Linux is for everything but games, and Windows 7 is for games. I also happen to have an aesthetic streak and like my systems to look good. Custom Xfce theme that looks good on Linux and Aero looks good on Windows 7. I don't fit into the "slashdotter" mold that you have roughly sketched out in your own mind.

Re:It is ugly though in Desktop mode. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463415)

Are they still putting the menu names in ALL CAPS? Because if so, I'm skipping that version of VS.

Re:It is ugly though in Desktop mode. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463585)

It takes about 1 day to get used to it. Then try tuning off the all-caps menus in the registry. I would bet money that you switch back them because they are easier to read.

Re:It is ugly though in Desktop mode. (-1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | about 2 years ago | (#41463689)

Aero is too distracting and not terribly aesthetically pleasing. It is probably even worse than OSX.
Call me nuts, but I like the classic Windows98/Win2k look the best.

Now this new look, too far in the other direction, way to minimalist.

Re:It is ugly though in Desktop mode. (1)

fast turtle (1118037) | about 2 years ago | (#41463891)

I find that some of the Aero features are nice but I don't use the compositing features normally as I don't care for the damn eye candy. Simply put, give me the translucency effects, thumbnail previews of open apps otherwise get the hell out of my way. What I wish MS would do is use the lest needed effects and make it easy for us to add those we want instead of insisting the god damn UI is a game.

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (5, Funny)

chill (34294) | about 2 years ago | (#41463179)

Well, the saying "the line between genius and insanity is thin" can probably be modified slightly here to something like "the line between awesome and steaming-pile-of-frustrating-monkey-shit is thin".

Then your statement makes more sense.

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (5, Insightful)

Seumas (6865) | about 2 years ago | (#41463183)

Yes, but have you used it on a computer?

Is that awsomely good? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463211)

or just awsomely bad.

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463219)

I've been testing Windows 8 for some while and I must say it's borderline awesome to use.

Are you using a computer or smart phone?

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463269)

Already got your monthly astroturf paycheck?
S.B, would like to thank you for licking his albanian car. (TopGear UK viewers will know what I mean)

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (2)

Joce640k (829181) | about 2 years ago | (#41463411)

Didn't people learn anything from Windows Vista?

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (3, Funny)

somersault (912633) | about 2 years ago | (#41463511)

Well, it seems that Microsoft didn't.

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (0)

joaosantos (1519241) | about 2 years ago | (#41463637)

They didn't learn anything from either Vista and Millenium so they will probably not learn much from 8 too.

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | about 2 years ago | (#41463763)

... Don't install Windows Vista?

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (5, Funny)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 2 years ago | (#41463969)

... Don't install Windows Vista?

The first rule of Windows Vista is: You do not install Windows Vista.

The second rule of Windows Vista is: You DO NOT install Windows Vista.

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463509)

Ugg... stop it with the shill accounts, Microsoft. They're too transparent for anyone to take seriously.

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (1)

beachcoder (2281630) | about 2 years ago | (#41464299)

A little too obvious. Is anyone anti-shilling yet?

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (3, Funny)

ByOhTek (1181381) | about 2 years ago | (#41463665)

They don't let you use forks and knives when you eat, do they?

Re:Been testing Windows 8 (5, Interesting)

Naatach (574111) | about 2 years ago | (#41463933)

It has some definite elements of awesome, but it's interface is such a turd that it's hard to look past that. I've been developing a Windows 8 class for Support staff. There's been so many times when I exclaim "Cool! That should have been in Win7". Then I have to go back to that duct-taped construction paper and glue start screen and the mystique fades away. After using it for a few weeks, I don't hate it as much as when I started, but I still wouldn't load it on my personal machine.

taipai (-1, Offtopic)

zrbyte (1666979) | about 2 years ago | (#41463139)

typo

Re:taipai (1)

GuJiaXian (455569) | about 2 years ago | (#41463177)

Correct. It should be spelled Taibei.

I agree with Intel... (-1, Flamebait)

sudden.zero (981475) | about 2 years ago | (#41463201)

...because Windows 8 burnt my $300 video card up while I was beta testing the release client. Then when I bitched at Microsoft about it they said "It is NVidia's fault for making shitty drivers." FU M$!

Re:I agree with Intel... (3, Insightful)

devlil (2739741) | about 2 years ago | (#41463255)

Why were you beta testing on a production machine?

Re:I agree with Intel... (2)

Foxhoundz (2015516) | about 2 years ago | (#41463313)

"...I was beta testing the release client."

You don't say...

Re:I agree with Intel... (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | about 2 years ago | (#41463709)

That happens on beta tests, if you don't want to take the risk, get the hell over it.

That's one reason I only beta tested it on a VM.

Re:I agree with Intel... (0)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 2 years ago | (#41463897)

Haha you use windows

I can only imagine.. (1)

Severus Snape (2376318) | about 2 years ago | (#41463207)

What he thought of Vista when that was released. Microsoft have learned from their past mistakes. It's a good OS, The only major sub-system rewrite has been audio, and driver support is looking pretty good now. I've certainly not had any problems on my 3 machines.

Re:I can only imagine.. (1)

devlil (2739741) | about 2 years ago | (#41463297)

Vista was quite good OS too, it was just the driver support that lacked. They rewrote the whole driver tech so manufacturers had to add new kind of support for Vista and that wasn't ready when consumers tried to use Vista.

Re:I can only imagine.. (2)

Jeng (926980) | about 2 years ago | (#41463365)

There are a number of programs that I can get to load on Windows XP and Windows 7, but not Windows Vista.

Vista has a lot more problems than just drivers.

[Balmer] can only imagine.. (2)

ByOhTek (1181381) | about 2 years ago | (#41463717)

Inventing a throw-a-chair-over-the-telephone device.

one bug I noticed in developer preview (5, Funny)

tverbeek (457094) | about 2 years ago | (#41463231)

Apparently the Start Menu isn't working yet. I can't even find the Start Button.

Re:one bug I noticed in developer preview (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463275)

Trolling??? Its not there unless you hack to add it.

Re:one bug I noticed in developer preview (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463781)

woosh!

Re:one bug I noticed in developer preview (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463853)

It isn't trolling if it's funny. Then it's called "joking".

Re:one bug I noticed in developer preview (5, Informative)

ledow (319597) | about 2 years ago | (#41463319)

Someone broke it off and it landed up over here:

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

Re:one bug I noticed in developer preview (5, Funny)

Hillgiant (916436) | about 2 years ago | (#41463633)

And it asks me to tap the screen whenever I plug in a USB device. Doesn't do anything when I do tap the screen. Except leave fingerprints.

Perhaps Microsoft will get into the lucrative (?) microfiber cloth market.

Dunno what beef is - already using 8 in production (1)

xxxJonBoyxxx (565205) | about 2 years ago | (#41463281)

>> the operating system lacks a wide range of robust applications

Kudos to Microsoft for not making this a false chicken-and-egg problem. The OS needs to get out there so developers will target it. In fact, any developer worth his paycheck has probably been playing with the OS and maybe even Visual Studio 2012 for months.

>> PC makers haven’t had enough time to work out kinks with so-called drivers, which connect software to such hardware as printers

On nos - HP isn't going to have enough time to gen up its usual 500MB driver install for Windows 8?

We've already flipped half our Windows desktops and laptops to Windows 8. Except for a utility to put the start menu button back, we're not looking back.

Re:Dunno what beef is - already using 8 in product (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 2 years ago | (#41463999)

n fact, any developer worth his paycheck has probably been playing with the OS and maybe even Visual Studio 2012 for months.

Because all developers are windows developers?

Re:Dunno what beef is - already using 8 in product (0)

pclminion (145572) | about 2 years ago | (#41464221)

No, not all developers are worth their paychecks. Ooooh! Burn!

Re:Dunno what beef is - already using 8 in product (2, Funny)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 2 years ago | (#41464317)

Yeah, the ones who work on windows and windows software.

Re:Dunno what beef is - already using 8 in product (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41464043)

I agree and more importantly solving the chicken and egg problem for multiple input types. Between hardware, OS and applications someone had to go first. I think Windows 8 is exciting with where Microsoft is trying to lead.

Driver support (5, Insightful)

Murdoch5 (1563847) | about 2 years ago | (#41463299)

Has windows ever been released with full driver support? Windows 7 still has driver issues, XP had driver issues for years etc.... I'm not sure what his point was if he mentioned driver support.

Ya that seems kinda funny (4, Interesting)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 2 years ago | (#41463503)

Driver support ALWAYS lags because some companies are lazy. The big guys, Intel, AMD, nVidia, all seem to have drivers out on time and Windows 8 is no exception. You can get 8 drivers from them, life is good. However more specialty companies often lag badly. There's no Windows 8 drivers for any pro audio interfaces I can find, but that's no surprise I remember that it took M-Audio the better part of a year for Windows 7.

There's just never going to be good driver support for a new OS on account of companies not wanting to bother. Even if the drivers don't need any changes, just testing and re-certification it can take time or just not happen at all.

Re:Ya that seems kinda funny (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 2 years ago | (#41463573)

Of course there are no new drivers!

Why would you buy their new and improved "Ready for Windows 8!" kit if your old-but-perfectly-functional kit worked just as well?!

Re:Ya that seems kinda funny (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 2 years ago | (#41464067)

This is how I got quite a few free printers and scanners. They don't work with Vista + but my linux machines like them just fine.

This is why drivers made by someone other than the hardware maker is the way to go.

Re:Ya that seems kinda funny (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41463739)

I don't have any graphics drivers for my system, but installing the Windows 7 drivers in Windows 7 compatibility mode worked fine. This should work for a great majority of drivers. My dual graphics card on my laptop are working in Windows 8. On my tablet PC, the digitizer, thumb strip, and wwan card are all working, which I usually have a problem getting drivers for.

The driver model changed very little (2)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 2 years ago | (#41464245)

A good deal of Windows 7 drivers work, however most companies aren't updating their support for 8 yet.

I realize it isn't an issue for geeks but it is for normal users. They go and have a look at what their hardware supports, don't see Windows 8, and say "Oh it won't work."

I also get rather annoyed since it is just laziness on the part of hardware companies. MS releases test builds of Windows plenty early. That is how the companies I listed manage to have Windows 8 drivers out. There really isn't an excuse for not having support. They are just lazy about it

Some companies purposely don't do new drivers, to try and make people buy new hardware. HP is famous for that one.

Re:Ya that seems kinda funny (1)

Murdoch5 (1563847) | about 2 years ago | (#41463797)

Oh I agree, it doesn't matter what OS you pick, Linux, Apple or Windows. Driver support will always be in development, however I think to call it out as a sign of being released premature is wrong, I could easily pick out the same flaw in Linux, but I wouldn't say the kernel is released premature.

Re:Driver support (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463567)

This post actually made me wonder. What is "full driver support"? Do they expect a new OS to have built-in support for every component you could ever think to plug into a computer?

"Oh no, this install of Windows 8 doesn't autodetect my 1973 tape backup device plugged into the serial port!"

Re:Driver support (1)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 2 years ago | (#41463911)

Cheer up, Sleepy Jean!

Re:Driver support (1)

tgd (2822) | about 2 years ago | (#41463805)

Has windows ever been released with full driver support? Windows 7 still has driver issues, XP had driver issues for years etc.... I'm not sure what his point was if he mentioned driver support.

I've run it on quite a few different systems, of ages going back perhaps 6-7 years. The single driver problem I've run into with the RTM bits is a Bootcamp problem -- the touchpad on my MacBook Air doesn't work and so far I've been unable to cobble together anything to get the drivers to load. Every other device on all of the systems has worked flawlessly. (In fact, my relatively new Core I7 3770 system works far better because a slew of really buggy Intel-originated drivers were replaced by 1st party Microsoft drivers.

Re:Driver support (5, Funny)

Frankie70 (803801) | about 2 years ago | (#41464031)

Yes. That's the reason I opt for Linux - full driver support.

Re:Driver support (1, Interesting)

pclminion (145572) | about 2 years ago | (#41464305)

Are you telling me that every time Linus makes a new point release he makes sure all the driver test cases pass for all drivers in the tree? From reading LKmL, it seems the standard for turning the crank is sometimes as low as "I tried it on two machines and it didn't crash. Let's unleash it on the rest of the world, who will QC it."

Re:Driver support (2)

PCM2 (4486) | about 2 years ago | (#41464279)

I'm not sure what his point was if he mentioned driver support.

He didn't.

The whole article is based on an anonymous source paraphrasing to Bloomberg. There are no direct quotes.

Windows releases are ALWAYS premature... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463347)

This is not news. Microsoft have ALWAYS released new OSes prematurely. Users basically beta test the OS, and then MS goes on an ad nauseum patch release cycle for bugs that have been found. I recall that it took XP at least 2 to 3 years before it was solid. And, let's not forget Vista. That was nothing else than a stop-gap release of underperforming beta software.

Angry Phone Call? Please. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463355)

An angry phone call? Please.

When are OEMs going to finally realize that this isnt the year 2000 anymore, and that microsoft needs the OEMs more than the OEMs need microsoft? Windows is the dominant OS on a platform that is no longer central to a user's computing experience. Hardware, in the form of tablets and mobile phones, has made computing ubiquitous. People are buying computing devices without a Windows operating system.

Just wait Ballmer, you can't dish it out anymore. The market is going to give it to you. Hard. In a very uncomfortable place.

Re:Angry Phone Call? Please. (1)

ciderbrew (1860166) | about 2 years ago | (#41463553)

I don't think that is true for office machines. OEMs need to sell those in bulk and get money for support contracts.

Re:Angry Phone Call? Please. (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 2 years ago | (#41464107)

VDI is beginning to kill that off and it will only get worse for HP and Dell on the office desktop front.

People want to be able to get to their work "desktop" anywhere and no one wants to deal with the hardware support headaches nor the power consumption.

Re:Angry Phone Call? Please. (2)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41464065)

microsoft needs the OEMs more than the OEMs need microsoft

I don't think so. Once OEMs start breaking with Microsoft maybe but right now they still are all Windows shops.

i feel bad for all the poor and unsuccessful ... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463443)

who have to resort to using Windows. It's so nice to be able to afford any Apple gear I want without having to pinch pennies and buy Korean knock-offs or shoddy Microsoft "innovations" like the less productive people do. Just remember when you're crying about how much using Microsoft blows that it's your own fault for not working harder in school or taking more risks in business. In the end you only have yourself to blame.

Re:i feel bad for all the poor and unsuccessful .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463525)

Romney, I thought I told you to get off the computer and get Ohio back in your pocket! Those jobs won't outsource themselves you know!

Re:i feel bad for all the poor and unsuccessful .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41464029)

Wow, so you think you are living the good life because you can afford a Mac, and considering how you are bragging about it I take it that you can barely afford a Mac and it is the pinnacle of your life.

Congratulations, your life is all downhill from here so you might want to just kill yourself now while you are happy.

Service Pack (1)

ultimajji (1485655) | about 2 years ago | (#41463457)

Windows 8 will be ready when SP1 comes out.

Nothing new here (1)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | about 2 years ago | (#41463459)

A release of Windows not being ready has never stopped Microsoft from releasing it. Nor has it stopped the fools who jump on every beta they put out. I participate on a video forum at another site and every beta that comes out, we have members who jump on it and then bitch about how various things don't work. That doesn't ever stop from them doing the same thing over and over every time a new beta comes out. And the market has never punished Microsoft for any of its mistakes so even if Win 8 is as big of a disaster as I think it will be, it won't matter.

Re:Nothing new here (1)

NJRoadfan (1254248) | about 2 years ago | (#41463571)

Too bad they aren't registered beta testers that can submit bug reports. I was a beta tester for Windows 98, it had some pretty bad show stopper bugs in the RCs. I did my best to report them. Some were fixed, others made it to RTM, but were later fixed in 98SE (which was originally planned to be an OEM Service Release). Anyone remember "WebTV for Windows"? It was a pile of buggy crap. Testers told MS time and time again that it wasn't ready for primetime (no pun intended) in the beta newsgroups, yet they released it anyway. Luckily nobody actually used it, and MS quietly killed it off by the time ME came out.

Re:Nothing new here (1)

neo-mkrey (948389) | about 2 years ago | (#41463609)

Yes, these early adopters are called 'Beta Testers' and the bugs they find and Microsoft fixes makes the release version better for the rest of us. Instead of insulting them, you should be thanking them.

Re:Nothing new here (1)

bondsbw (888959) | about 2 years ago | (#41463641)

I'm convinced that some people jump on the beta just to complain about it. "I used it for 15 minutes and it is the $!@#$ most ugly-@#$ buggy $@#% piece of !#@$#@!% horse $#@# I've ever seen!"

Or, every other Slashdot post on Windows 8.

Define premature (3, Insightful)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41463497)

In all the Slashdot articles trashing windows 8, the one and only criticism ever brought up here is of Metro and the start menu. Windows 8 is stable, uses minimal resources, performs well, features a variety of real improvements to the UI and workflow, is secure, is scalable to hardware even 7 years old (at least), is compatible with almost all software available for Windows 7, is compatible with almost all drivers for Windows 7... for almost all tangible measures of the ability of an operating sytem, it's ready, and has been for a long time. Public betas and pre-releases have been available for over a year now, including a free RTM evaluation, so we've all been free to test and evaluate it on our own machines. And still the *only* complaint anyone here (a place where Microsoft is derided at every turn for stability, performance, and security) ever manages to come up with is their own opinion on launcher preferences. If that's the worst you can come up with for Windows 8, I'd say it's good to go.

Re:Define premature (1)

sbditto85 (879153) | about 2 years ago | (#41463587)

And still the *only* complaint anyone here (a place where Microsoft is derided at every turn for stability, performance, and security) ever manages to come up with is their own opinion on launcher preferences.

because people being able to intuitively use an OS isn't that important? windows 8 and gnome 3 FTW!

but seriously I had the hardest time getting used to windows 8 ... now that I kinda have the hang of it I don't think it is that bad. Just takes some time to figure out how your actually supposed to use it.

Re:Define premature (3, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41463693)

because people being able to intuitively use an OS isn't that important?

It's important, yes, but if this is in fact something "broken" with the OS, then it's fixable with a short tutorial or old-fashioned experience sitting down and using the thing, which is a lot easier than trying to fix an unstable performance hog like vista (which required several service packs to get right).

However, it's my opinion from my own usage and watching my friends and family use the new OS that it's not unintuitive to use. Microsoft tells you where to find the start menu and all charms the first time you log in. Installing apps is as easy as going to the marketplace. Launching apps just tap on them. They tell you how to switch apps when you log in for the first time as well. That's pretty much all you need to basically use your computer. If you're familiar with Windows 7, only a few simple instructions familiarize you with Windows 8.

Re:Define premature (1)

tverbeek (457094) | about 2 years ago | (#41464009)

The main flaw with the scenario you describe is that no one ever pays attention to things like that intro you're talking about.

Re:Define premature (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41464207)

The first thing I did was hit alt-f4 to that stupid intro.

Re:Define premature (1)

bazorg (911295) | about 2 years ago | (#41463985)

I've been using Windows since 3.0, so they all look more or less familiar to me. I see this "metro controversy" as a non-issue at a time when so many people own smartphones/tablets and add apps with random UIs on them. so why should familiarity be more important than usability if all websites look different and all apps have their "skin"?

Re:Define premature (1)

sbditto85 (879153) | about 2 years ago | (#41464187)

I've been using Windows since 3.0

crap you got me beat! I've only been using since 3.11, but then again I always exited and went to DOS anyways.

I see this "metro controversy" as a non-issue at a time when so many people own smartphones/tablets and add apps with random UIs on them. so why should familiarity be more important than usability if all websites look different and all apps have their "skin"?

But my grandma (who is the person that will eventually have windows 8) only uses her select programs and every time something new happens her brain cant handle it and it requires many phone calls/written down tutorials of how to navigate until she gets used to it. Honestly I'm just selfishly not wanted to have to support/explain that with all my "non-techie" family members because they always call me for anything relating to the computer, regardless if its something I can "fix" or not.

"yes grandma, click the blue 'e' ... now type in the address bar ... the bar at the to... no the one that says something like 'www.' something ... ahhh screw it I'm just going to install a screen sharing program, be over in a couple of minutes"

Re:Define premature (4, Insightful)

will_die (586523) | about 2 years ago | (#41463927)

The UI mess is any easy thing to complain about and one that people instantly see.
The main problem is what technical or feature reasons are there to switch to Windows 8? I can point to benefits of switching to Vista when it was released but windows 8 is some bug fixes, ms-phone tied in, and a poor UI.

Re:Define premature (2, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41464239)

The UI mess is any easy thing to complain about and one that people instantly see.

It's also the most opinionated (least grounded in objective fact), as it's based on personal preferences; and the easiest to fix, as you can a) use the OS without even using the metro UI, b) get used to it and learn how to use it, c) augment it with launchers of your choosing, or d) completely replace it with a different shell

The main problem is what technical or feature reasons are there to switch to Windows 8?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8 [wikipedia.org]

Highlights inclue native iso/vhd support; native USB 3.0 support; fast boot time (my laptop goes from battery out to usable desktop in 7 seconds); native file versioning; integrated family controls; integrated antimalware; greatly enhanced task manager which shows network and disk usage, maintains app history, and manages startup processes; natively estimate data usage over a wireless connection; vastly improved multi-monitor support, with a taskbar that spans both monitors, and multi monitor wallpaper support; new copy/move dialogue, with transfer rate graph and enhanced filename conflict resolution; improved graphics subsystems; logical storage space aggregation from multiple physical storage sources; lower system resource requirements by cutting down on services, which also optimizes battery life....

I could go on, but absolutely none of the aforementioned features have anything to do with the metro UI, nor do they require you to use it or even acknowledge its existence.

Re:Define premature (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463967)

Yeah, except Microsoft is very loudly and very firmly going all in on the new Metro UI. They've told everyone that it's the future and are dropping old frameworks for developers. They've made it quite clear that the desktop is legacy only and new software should not target it if you want your windows logo certification. .. Except you, and I know, and everyone knows that the above is a gigantic truckload of bullshit and everyone will continue developing software the same way. Microsoft's flagship product, office, is desktop environment only. They've claimed they're going to make it a metro app, but we all know that's a lie because there's decades of legacy code that will never make the transition. They've even ported the desktop environment to arm (WinRT) because of this.

So what we have here is a stupid clusterfuck. Microsoft is heavily pushing metro, which is unfinished and shitty and not at all ready for prime time. They're even going as far as to break the UI to force you to use it.

How can you say windows 8 is good to go? It's not just broken, it's intentionally broken.

I don't see adoption happening (3)

Rooked_One (591287) | about 2 years ago | (#41463701)

Its like windows vista... Its a "lets dip our feet in the water" sort of pull.

I would say its *very* preemptive to release it so shortly after people have just gotten used to Win7 and Win2008 R2. After playing with win8 and win2012, there's no way I can see either as any sort of viable OS. Trying to get people to use either is a very long jump - maybe its a long jump to see how much win8 will be used on tablets.

Win2012 is, to me, a disaster. There's no start button - instead you must mouse down to pixel 0,0 where there's nothing to indicate "hey - start button here" and when you do discover it, its like being given a camaro, only to discover that the V-8 has been pulled out and rigged with a 4 cylinder. There's also another hidden bar for "charms." Why all the hiding?

Hyper-V has improved a little, and there are some administrative functionality that, if you know how to get to, might be useful...

I just think its too soon - people are comfortable with Win7 and more importantly, have gotten comfortable with Win2008 R2, and how to manage each. Big corps are just now adopting Win7, and people tend to take their "work" home with them. They have gotten comfortable with the new OS, and IT people are stubborn.

And, lets face it - VMWare beat Microsoft to the VM punch, and that's where most small and medium, and especially large enterprises. Sure Win2012 is now manageable by one workstation, but we've been managing servers with RDP and VMware's native console passthrough for a long time.

I'm sure lots of other people have their opinions, so lets see those.

Re:I don't see adoption happening (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41463819)

There's no start button - instead you must mouse down to pixel 0,0 where there's nothing to indicate "hey - start button here" and when you do discover it, its like being given a camaro, only to discover that the V-8 has been pulled out and rigged with a 4 cylinder. There's also another hidden bar for "charms." Why all the hiding?

The first time you log in to you user account, you are given a short graphical tutorial which explains "Move your mouse into any corner" and shows what happens when you do this to the top right (the start button and other charms appear). If you follow this advice and move your mouse into any corner you will find among other things: two start buttons, a search menu, a settings menu, a start button, and an application switcher.

Re:I don't see adoption happening (2)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 2 years ago | (#41463939)

Because pixel hunting is fun! Hey, they give you hints, what more do you want?

Re:I don't see adoption happening (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41464033)

Just because the intro shows you how to do it doesn't make it a good UI design.

Re:I don't see adoption happening (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41464057)

And when you forget? This UI is anti-discoverable, doing the opposite of what 25 years of UI design best practices recommend, by hiding features in arbitrary places, and making you guess where they are.

Typo in summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463703)

For the record, it's spelled Taipei, not Taipai.

Oh stop crying (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463783)

Just install classic shell from sourceforge and be done with it. I know it's a piece of crap but for support people it's a needed evil to learn this new garbage in order to keep a job.

HINT: (2)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#41463811)

He knew perfectly well it would be leaked.

Coming up -- DLC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41463817)

Not ready yet? Gold masters have been made?

DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT AT RELEASE DATE!

I've forced myself to use it for over a month.... (5, Interesting)

HerculesMO (693085) | about 2 years ago | (#41463839)

And I can say it's great, and it's terrible.

The great -- it's really, really fast. Boot times are under 10 seconds to completely usable, apps launch fast, and IE10 is really not as bad as I thought it might be. The snapping of windows to side by side and whatever work really, really well, and I find myself more productive by seeing my email snapped to the side and then browsing or whatever.

The bad -- the experience is really jarring. Most of my time is spent in the "desktop" which is a complete carryover from Windows 7. I would have thought that Microsoft would have taken the effort to re-skin that in a way better than they have (see here: http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2822891/windows-desktop-ui-concept [theverge.com] ), but they didn't. It's a complete lack of effort. Not to mention, that things like battery life remaining, the time, are hidden into the OS and don't make appearances anywhere.

The ugly -- Media Center. Fuck man, that's probably the best app in Windows, and could really kick the crap out of the Apple TV or Google TV if it was properly developed. With Windows 8's API structure there could be a lot of integration here, making media center the "hub" for entertainment on the PC. So if you wanted Netflix, or Amazon, or whatever - you'd have to integrate it into Media Center. But they just booted it out because people weren't using it. Of course they weren't... when you treat it like a third rate product, it's going to get third rate attention.

Also ugly -- control panel. There are two of them in the OS. One is the 'desktop' version which remains unchanged from Windows 7, and then there's the Metro one that lets you work on settings for "Metro". Additionally multi monitor support with "hot spots" is a nightmare. I have two monitors and at work, I have 3. Trying to get into the bottom right or left to click on the start menu is extremely difficult, and in a remote desktop window, even harder. You can't use shortcut keys in remote desktop, but I've gotten used to using Windows Key + C for the charms bar, but realistically it's annoying.

All in all it's a mixed bag. Microsoft needs to step up development to complete the UI experience because right now it's a joke. The OS itself is fundamentally better too, in terms of speed, stability, resource usage, sleep/hibernate, etc. However nobody's going to care if it acts like a fucked up monster to play with. Most people will adapt, as they always do, and it's not terribly hard to get used to. But if you want to compete in a world of where Apple makes design a #1 priority, and people VALUE that, then you have to fix the UI experience in Windows. It's not all about usability.

Intel displaying weakness (1)

TheSkepticalOptimist (898384) | about 2 years ago | (#41463875)

The only problem is that Intel's platform to support Windows 8 in a tablet platform is pre-mature. Smashing desktop or laptop CPU's into a tablet will probably result in poor battery and crippled performance and Intel is still struggling to find a foothold in the mobile CPU market. Intel is going to be put front and center in direct comparisons with iPad and Android tablets and even ARM based Windows RT tablets and I think Intel is expecting unfavorable comparisons because Microsoft is forcing Intel into a market they are not quite ready to participate in. As Intel is suffering considerable loss in the post-PC era, any lack of consumer confidence in their ability to produce a good tablet platform will result in significant decline in Intel's market share.

Intel is spreading FUD to slow the adoption of Windows 8 while they struggle to prepare a mobile CPU platform. This speaks of a company that is lacking in confidence and perhaps has jumped the shark and are unable to compete in the post-PC era. Windows 8 may just shine a light on how slowly Intel has moved towards a mobile platform and obviously Intel is afraid of this.

Conflict of Interest May Be Simple FUD (1, Interesting)

buckhead_buddy (186384) | about 2 years ago | (#41463893)

Windows 8 Tablets with Intel processors will not arrive this year, unlike the ARM-based RT tablets due to surface before this year's holiday purchase season.

The marketing fire for Windows 8 will hotly blaze but most of the focus will be its advantage as a touch based tablet interface. You won't see the Today show demoing a mouse based computer for the masses.

Perhaps Otellini doesn't want market interest to be piqued until Intel tablets can benefit? Perhaps he's just positioning any teething pains of moving to this new OS to be blamed on the ARM cores? Certainly Intel doesn't lose the business of folks who choose to stick with mouse based Windows while biding their time.

I have no doubt there will be plenty of teething pains with Windows 8 (a major GUI inert ace change affects both user expectations and code integrity), but just remember that Intel has gains to be made by casting FUD around the early, non-Intel tablet release of Windows 8, too.

No OS is ever truly an OS (1)

Code Yanker (2359188) | about 2 years ago | (#41463947)

until SP1.

Metro = Crippled version of windows (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41464019)

M$ in an effort to not be outdouched by apple has crippled windows in their latest service pack of Vi$ta.

And, (1)

Lucas123 (935744) | about 2 years ago | (#41464103)

The sky is blue, bears crap in the woods, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It's not like he's revealing something unusual for Microsoft. When has a Windows OS release ever been fully baked?

Is it really? (1)

kennycoder (788223) | about 2 years ago | (#41464123)

I consider myself a windows power user that uses its features and shortcuts as much as possible because I like a responsive OS. Windows 7 had it all.. fast stable and snappy. Now I've been using windows 8 rtm for some time and it's even faster. I don't get all this whining about metro ui. Just remove all metro apps and you are good to go. Same ol windows.. just a fullscreen start menu. Mine has a desktop shortcut and weather widget. That's it. And it not that bad anyway. Search works way faster. OS boots WAAY faster on a normal HDD (pretty much the same on an SSD). I do a lot of web development in php, .net with several DBs including mysql, postgres, sql server and everything works seamlessly. I just don't get everybody complaining as you are being forced to use the metro ui with everything. It's just a god damn "eye candy" with some adjustments for touch devices. Don't like it, don't use it... it's not like a fullscreen start menu with lots of personalization screws up your experience with the OS. It seems to me that almost everybody who's bashing windows 8 or haven't used it or are simply doing it for the lulz. Get over it, it's a good and stable OS and it's here to stay. And it has nothing to do with Vista.. i had to suffer with it a lot.

All I read was (1)

scourfish (573542) | about 2 years ago | (#41464259)

something about a Microsoft and a premature release. I'm sure there's an antiquated internetjoke in there somewhere.
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