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Game Review: Torchlight 2

samzenpus posted about 2 years ago | from the play-it-if-you-got-it dept.

PC Games (Games) 221

CowboyNeal writes: "Last week was a big week for gamers, with the release of both Borderlands 2 as well as Torchlight 2. I already shared my thoughts on the former last week, so I got to playing the latter over the weekend. Torchlight 2 is the follow-up to Torchlight, the 2009 point-and-click ARPG created by Runic Games. What's new that the first game didn't have? And, the big question, how does it stack up against Diablo 3? Click the link below to learn my impressions of the game."

A Testimonial, and a Confession

First, I have to admit some bias here. When Diablo 2 came out over a decade ago, it was my favorite game for quite some time. Its expansion pack only cemented its position as the best game of all time, for me. It's key to note here, that Diablo 2 was only the best game ever in my opinion, and eventually it aged and got to the point where it was nigh unplayable on modern computers. I even tried going back several times in the past few years, and just found it too archaic to function properly on modern hardware. It desperately needed either some patches or a successor to bring it up to date.

When Blizzard Entertainment announced Diablo 3, I couldn't have been happier. At last, an updated version of the best game ever would be available. However, something felt odd about Diablo 3 even before I ever played it. Blizzard kept reviews at bay until after release via a restrictive NDA. That's fairly common, and not enough to raise suspicion alone, but still odd that there weren't more early peeks allotted to the usual media channels. Even after its release, the demo was only available by invite. I couldn't even download the demo for Diablo 3 unless someone who had already bought the game gave me a code. Now something smelled fishy. So I held onto my sixty dollars, which while would be a small price to pay for the best game ever, it seemed like Diablo 3 wouldn't be that game. Eventually I was able to wrangle a demo code from someone who had bought the game and wanted to lure me into playing it. I didn't get very far into the demo before I got a quest just to use a waypoint. Perhaps they didn't realize that I have killed Diablo and his brothers dozens if not hundreds of times already. I know how to work a waypoint. I need monsters to kill. Out of respect for the franchise, I kept on. I even finished the demo, but by the time I did so, it was clear to me, that Diablo 3 was going to be a giant let-down for me. Whatever fun I had with Diablo 2 was done and gone, and would stay in the past.

I had had the good fortune of playing Torchlight, and like just about everyone else, my biggest complaint was that the game had no multiplayer. Other than the lack of multiplayer, I thought it was just about perfect. Given my previous love for Diablo 2, this shouldn't be any sort of surprise. So now at long last, Runic has released the multiplayer-enabled Torchlight 2. Similar to the old "Open Battle.Net" games of Diablo 2, you can play the same character in single player, LAN, and internet games. This proved to be key, as on release day, Runic's servers melted from the onslaught of players. Internet games were finally enabled a couple days later, but in the meantime, plenty of single player and LAN games were had. Through the creative usage of some VPNs, I was even able to play LAN games over the internet.

Once More Into the Fray

The game starts off in the ruins of the town of Torchlight. Wait a second, didn't I save the town from Ordrak at the bottom of the mines and whatever else was down there? Well, it turns out that I did, so long as I wasn't playing an alchemist. The alchemist, on the other hand, was corrupted by the heart of Ordrak and immediately knew that he had to burn down the town, and leave a path of death and destruction across the land as he began his new plot to destroy the world. Okay, so the plot isn't Hugo Award caliber stuff here, but neither was "Diablo lived somehow, and you have to go kill him again," nor was "Hey, why don't you just run on into this dungeon and fetch me the Amulet of Yendor." Really the plot is just a means to goad me into venturing into areas that I haven't already taken it upon myself to go explore and kill everything in.

That brings us down to what the real fun in any point-and-click ARPG is. Taking on and killing hordes of enemies at once, securing an area, and then reaping the immediate rewards in the form of experience and loot. The Torchlight series has traded in the grimdark setting of Diablo for an art style that's a bit more cartoon-like, but the core gameplay survives. This is a feature that Torchlight 2 recreates flawlessly. Combat is fast, frenetic, and visceral. Enemies have a chance to explode into a pile of gibs, leaving bloodstains on the ground. Frozen enemies can be shattered into chunks of ice. Often the action happens so fast, that creatures can be slain before I'm even aware they exist. It's exactly the opposite of the first act of Diablo 3, which comparatively felt like drudgery.

Building the Perfect Warrior

There's four classes to choose from in Torchlight 2, and while they follow some archetypes, they're also rather configurable in how they're played via skills and weapon choices. The embermage is a classic spellcaster who uses staves and wands, and can learn many different spells to put down his enemies. The outlander is a ranged class that excels at nearly every sort of ranged weapon. The berserker is a melee damage class that can gain bonuses from using two weapons of the same type. And last but not least, is the engineer, a versatile class that can use shields, two-handed weapons, and even cannons, or some combination of those, depending on skill set. It's important to note here, that every class can wield every weapon, there's just not always a bonus for doing so. You're free to make a berserker who uses shotguns, for example, there's just not many skills for the class to support it.

Skills aren't tied to any sort of tree structure like they were before. You only need to be of a skill's required level to unlock it. Active skills such as spells, will also confer a bonus after investing five, ten, or fifteen points into them. Leveling up a character also isn't the only way to gain skill points. As you gain in fame from killing bosses and random named mobs, you acquire a skill point for every level of fame you've achieved as well.

Keep Going Back For More

It took me a little over 20 hours to save the world, on my first trip through on normal difficulty. Normal difficulty was still rather easy, and I think my next trip through the world will be at the veteran level. There are however, still a number of activities for my first character to do. Completing the game unlocks the Mapworks, a robot-run area where you can load custom maps to complete. It's also possible to create a new world that begins at your current level, so I could start a new game with that character where the first monsters would be around level 50. Because the dungeons and open areas outside towns are randomly generated, a second playthrough manages to still feel somewhat fresh. Combine that with a character class that you haven't played before, or a new set of skills for one that you have, and there's lots of reasons to keep replaying.

But is this the new best game ever?

In short, yes. I've spent time reading people's meager, whiny complaints about this gift of the gods that has been put on sale for a mere twenty dollars. Sure, you can only reallocate the last three skill points you've spent, and you can't redo all your stats and skills once you're leveled up. That's so that you learn from your mistakes and go back and play the game again. There's no one to hold your hand to find the area where the quest is at. There's a marker on your map for you to aim for, and that's more than any player deserves. The quests are still rather simplistic, and of the form to go kill someone or a group of someones, or to collect a thing, or a group of things. Again, the quests are merely a vehicle to get you into new areas. If you happen to kill the guy that advances the plot, that's a bonus. If you stop to talk to an NPC, the world does not stop for you. Enemies will continue to attack you as you choose your quest reward, because you were too stupid to clear out the area of any possible threats before sitting down to talk. I think I've now sufficiently debunked any negative points I've read in other reviews. If you don't like point-and-click ARPG games, you're not going to like this one. No one is going to change the entire genre to enable someone's crazy ideas. Well, unless it's Diablo 3, and look how that turned out. Sure it sold well, but I would now have to waterboard my friends into admitting that they fell for purchasing it.

My biggest complaint about this most perfect game, is that there's no Mac or Linux versions, yet. I say yet, because three years after the first game was released, we even have a Linux version now. You can pick it up, DRM-free, right now for a limited time, for the price of whatever-you-want, as part of the Humble Indie Bundle 6. You can donate some or all of the price to the EFF as well. Shameless plugs aside, it may take a few years but eventually Torchlight 2 should make the rounds as well. Runic Games has a lot in store for the game yet, such as console versions, as well as Steam Workshop integration, which will enable easy mod installation. Mod support will presumably let players redo their skills and stats, and cheat if they want to.

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Good (5, Insightful)

i kan reed (749298) | about 2 years ago | (#41480615)

Since Diablo 3 is a DRM'd monstrosity, I'll give this a try, just to help show blizzard why they aren't getting money.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480751)

After reading that review, there's no way I'll waste my money on either. Although, I am open to changing my mind with better information, so I'd like to see your opinion after you've played it.

Can you change the keybindings? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480763)

Torchlight 1 does not allow you to change keybindings.
Diablo 3 does.

I almost *never* find default key bindings to be any good.

Can you bind your commands however you want in Torchlight 2? If not, I will stick with D3.

Re:Can you change the keybindings? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480879)

Good work giving money to an evil company. Fucking imbeciles...

Re:Can you change the keybindings? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481299)

Wait, who's evil? And why?

Re:Can you change the keybindings? (5, Insightful)

Dins (2538550) | about 2 years ago | (#41481613)

Wait, who's evil? And why?

Think he meant Activision/Blizzard. And the fact that Diablo 3 requires you to always be connected to Blizzard's servers even while playing single player, while maybe not pure evil, is the reason I will never buy Diablo 3.

Re:Can you change the keybindings? (2)

Lehk228 (705449) | about 2 years ago | (#41482555)

i don't have a problem with DRM requires internet (well actually i do, but ideological purity takes a back seat to "i know how to get a crack for this shit") I refuse to play a single player game that is only partially on your PC and is dependent upon a remote server to function, for not legitimate reason

Re:Can you change the keybindings? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41482235)

Are they evil because they wanted improved security offered by purely server side model for the RMAH? Or are they evil for having a RMAH? Or are they evil because it's the poster on the side of today's bandwagon? Or are they evil because the game doesn't exactly suit your taste?

Please clarify.

Re:Can you change the keybindings? (5, Informative)

bedonnant (958404) | about 2 years ago | (#41480999)

yes, you can.

Re:Can you change the keybindings? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41482311)

One note... I got a friend together to play online and as I was arranging stuff, I accidently clicked this little green magnifying glass icon just to the bottom right of the health globe... it turns off your "loot bubbles" and no manner of going into options to figure out why there were turned off will help. All the "show items" are checked. It was frustrating until my Google fu turned up a link (which wasn't the easiest to find yet as it's not popular enough of a request).

Hopefully that helps others.

BTW, Torchlight 2 is awesome. But I'm also a huge fan of the original. I'm more than happy to advocate this game. I spent $60 on Diablo 3 and I'm beyond disappointed. Dare I say I wasted my money? I was a big Blizzard fan. I loved the Starcraft 1, Warcraft 1-3 and played WoW for a short time after CATA. Starcraft 2 was fun. I don't feel like I wasted my money there. But seriously, if company's can start pushing $20 games this good, I hope it sends a message to game developers everywhere.

Re:Can you change the keybindings? (4, Informative)

CodeHxr (2471822) | about 2 years ago | (#41482815)

But seriously, if company's can start pushing $20 games this good, I hope it sends a message to game developers everywhere.

This, one thousand times.

I bought a 4-pack of this for $60 from steam and gifted 3 of them to friends of mine. I haven't gotten this amount of enjoyment (including my friends' enjoyment) from $60 in a very long time, if ever.

Re:Can you change the keybindings? (3, Informative)

Halo1 (136547) | about 2 years ago | (#41481121)

Torchlight 1 does not allow you to change keybindings.

Actually, it does [lmgtfy.com] . For some reason, there's no UI for doing so though.

Re:Can you change the keybindings? (1)

bryansj (89051) | about 2 years ago | (#41481555)

Yes. You can rebind your keys for TL2. I haven't played D3 since getting TL2 and I've been playing D3 since release. I'll probably skip D3 until patch 1.05 is released.

Re:Good (2)

Quirkz (1206400) | about 2 years ago | (#41481015)

I pre-ordered Torchlight 2 when Diablo 3 came out and I concluded I wouldn't buy it because of the always-online requirement. However, I never got any notices that Torchlight 2 had become available, so until just a few minutes ago I didn't realize it was out. Apparently Steam doesn't bother sending notices when pre-orders are released, unless a spam filter ate it or something.

I'm looking forward to giving the game a shot, though after about 1.5 playthroughs of the original Torchlight I started to find that game a little hollow, as it seemed to mostly boil down to a lot of dice rolls while attempting to enchant equipment, and mostly failing. I still figure I can get my money's worth out of the game before the fun fades.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481241)

Steam doesn't send email alerts to it, no. But if you actually use steam, that "update news" window lets you know when a game you preordered is about to be available so you can pre-load it.

Re:Good (1)

Quirkz (1206400) | about 2 years ago | (#41481583)

I only log in when I'm actually playing, so I don't see that stuff much. Next time I'll mark the calendar if I preorder something, I guess.

Re:Good (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481363)

I love that the always-online people bitch the loudest about always-online games. Clutch more pearls.

Re:Good (1)

Quirkz (1206400) | about 2 years ago | (#41481573)

I am not always online, to take your complaint about complaining elsewhere.

Re:Good (1)

Tyler Eaves (344284) | about 2 years ago | (#41481615)

Your complaint is illogical.

It's like complaining to the front desk at a hotel that you didn't get your wake up call...after you unplugged the phone.

Re:Good (2)

Chris Burke (6130) | about 2 years ago | (#41481897)

I think it's more like complaining that the alarm clock in the room didn't go off after you unplugged the phone, and them explaining how even though one might think an alarm clock doesn't need a phone connection, automatically updating the time on the clock does require the phone connection, and while sure one could theoretically have designed the alarm to function normally in the absence of a phone connection only minus the features the connection enables rather than disable it completely, but they didn't do it that way and so here we are.

I don't really mind the online requirement of D3 -- mostly because I'm not trying to play it so much that it matters if I can't those times I'm not connected. I have other games.

But the complaint is still valid because one does not normally associate single-player non-AH activities with requiring an internet connection, it is perfectly possible to design a game such that this is the case, and so the decision to do it differently can be questioned.

Re:Good (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481427)

If you or anybody else wants to buy Torchlight because of their issues with D3, send a message to Activision/Blizzard by emailing or sending them your receipt for your purchase of Torchlight (or whatever else you spent your money on).

Not buying their product is one thing (they might just attribute it as a loss to piracy). Showing them that you had the money *and* inclination to buy something but instead bought a competitors product is a whole other thing.

Re:Good (5, Informative)

CodeHxr (2471822) | about 2 years ago | (#41482905)

If you or anybody else wants to buy Torchlight because of their issues with D3, send a message to Activision/Blizzard by emailing or sending them your receipt for your purchase of Torchlight (or whatever else you spent your money on).

Not buying their product is one thing (they might just attribute it as a loss to piracy). Showing them that you had the money *and* inclination to buy something but instead bought a competitors product is a whole other thing.

Too bad you posted that anonymously... I will do this when I get home tonight because it will also indicate that not only did I have the money for their game, I got *four* copies of their competitor's game for the same price as their own. Bonus points for "their competitor" being developers that were originally a part of Blizzard [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Good (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481745)

I went out and bought a copy of D3 to offset you not buying one.

Your plan is now thwarted.

Re:Good (4, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | about 2 years ago | (#41482683)

Dude I gotta say...TORCHLIGHT 2 ROCKS!!! I pre-ordered for me and my boys, they had a cool deal where you could pay $60 (the same as a single copy of D3) and get 4 copies of Torchlight 1 AND get 4 of Torchlight II on release, what a steal! BTW you can still get 4 copies for $60 [steampowered.com] but I don't think you get TL 1 for free like if you pre-ordered.

Torchlight 1 is still a blast but to me its not the MP that was missing, it was the challenge. You could save up gems and build a "weapon of ultimate ass kickery" and just slaughter the entire game. Now not only did they fix this but LOOOT BABY LOOOT! The loot is cool but you gotta seriously hunt and fight and you WILL die even on normal level, these bad guys don't play around! There is this Manticore boss out in the desert and when we hit that place it was like walking into hell, just fire and explosions and lightning, and when you are playing MP with friends or family here is some KILLER things about MP..1.-Everyone gets their own loot, no loot snatching, 2.-Trading is simple and easy, if you get something your buddy can use or he gets a cool weapon you need for the set you're building? Swap in seconds. 3.-Bad guys ramp up a LOT when you add players, no going in with your buds and just laying waste, you better bring your A game because they sure do!

I know everyone is gonna compare to Diablo 3, but I don't think that is fair or right. They built D3 to be an online only MMO style real money market thing, while Torchlight 2 takes all we loved about D1 and D2 and dungeon crawlers and just ramps it to 11, making everything better! It really makes it a community, even going so far as to say "Modders are welcome here, come on in!" so we'll be seeing cool stuff added to Torchlight for years, which is something I LOVE LOVE LOVE to see games do, it adds so much to an already great game!

So if you like RPGs? If you like dungeon crawlers? If you liked Diablo 1 and 2? if you don't like always on DRM and real money markets? then BUY TORCHLIGHT 2 NOW! The first time we played the boys kept popping up in game "You only paid $20 a copy for this? Seriously? this rocks!" and I have to agree, its the most fun I've had in an RPG dungeon crawler in years, great loot, great sets, great drops, hard bad guys and bosses,lots of secrets and easter eggs (be sure to look for a basket near where you find the lotion for a cute "Silence of the Lambs" riff) its just a fricking blast!

Yep. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480643)

Normal difficulty was still rather easy

This was one of my very few issues with the game, I don't think "normal" should be labeled such.
The descriptions of the difficulty levels, as I noticed later, are accurate though. It calls normal something along the lines of "never played action RPGs before"
I usually play a game on "normal" cause I'm not looking to tear my hair out, but I think the difficulty levels should have been "super easy, easy, normal, and hard"

Re:Yep. (1)

shaunbr (563633) | about 2 years ago | (#41481901)

I also think that there's too big of a difficulty jump between normal and veteran. In normal, I'd build up a big excess of potions since nothing hit me very hard. In veteran, I was dying continuously and sending my pet back to town constantly just to get enough potions to survive. I was spending all of my gold just to keep an adequate stock of potions around.

At least for a first playthrough, the perfect difficulty would be something between normal and veteran. Unfortunately, that difficulty level doesn't exist (yet - at least until someone chooses to come along and make a mod to create it). That's just a minor complaint though - I've already put 30 hours in and I don't see myself stopping anytime soon.

I know a much better game. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480695)

Utmeskiten [kimmoa.se] .

No Crafting (3, Interesting)

oGMo (379) | about 2 years ago | (#41480735)

I think my biggest complaint is the same as Borderlands 2 .. no crafting to break up the slay-collect-sell rinse-repeat. I guess if you like slay-collect-sell that much, this game is perfect for you. If you want to set your own goals for finding rare components and crafting powerful gear, you're SOL, but that's not everyone's cup of tea.

On the other hand, TorchED is promised, and moddable games are good, which is what sold me. Hopefully someone can add to the gameplay!

Re:No Crafting (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480757)

Right because crafting was totally awesome in Diablo 3 ... er ... World of War ... er ... Star Wars Galaxies?

Re:No Crafting (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480855)

Right because that's totally relevant since every game has to be an exact feature-scrape of another. You must work for Zynga.

Re:No Crafting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480899)

Right because that's totally relevant since every game has to be an exact feature-scrape of another. You must work for Zynga.

Um, how about just being at all relevant to gameplay instead of a tacked on after thought?

Whoever Modded This Up (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481133)

Needs their fucking head examined. Blizzard implements the shittiest crafting "systems." I'd rather have no crafting than a bastardized version that costs you more in game money and resources than what you get out of it!

Re:Whoever Modded This Up (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481909)

Uh, did you not look at the comment you were talking about? He wasn't saying Blizzard's crafting systems were good, he was saying that you don't need to copy/paste from Blizzard to make a good crafting system. I think maybe you need your "fucking head examined." Or at least your eyes.

Re:No Crafting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480923)

I only played D3 so I can only comment on that. Crafting would have been a lot of fun if Blizzard hadn't intentionally made it more expensive and less powerful than buying at auction for some very obvious reasons that are the core of what's wrong with D3.

Re:No Crafting (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | about 2 years ago | (#41481973)

Or MINECRAFT!!! That has all the crafting you should ever need.

Make it extra hard by loading on survival mode.

Re:No Crafting (4, Interesting)

omglolbah (731566) | about 2 years ago | (#41481247)

You can at least merge set items and various types of equipment into new random pieces in Torchlight 2.
Not nearly as much of a crafting system as I would like to see, but better than the usual "this item is not for my class, vendor trash..."

Re:No Crafting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481273)

actually there is a function which is somewhat analogous to the horadric qube, so it could be said that there is some degree of crafting

Re:No Crafting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481559)

I'd say crafting is what kills any incentive to explore dungeons in Skyrim. Why hunt around for a better weapon/armor when you can over boost your skills and create the ultimate set? Especially with various stacking bugs?

A video flick with included masturbation button. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480747)

Torchlight 2 still didn't manage to give me anything that Dungeon Siege 2 did...

The WoW-esque graphics are such an extreme turn-off, and the fact that anyone from Blizzard had so major an influence on the game is just as much a boner-kill. Torchlight 2 had promise, but didn't deliver any more than Diablo 3 did. Mashing a single button and watching random numbers float by isn't fun, and is definitely not all that an ARPG can accomplish, but Torchlight 2 has literally nothing else. There's no choices or complexity, it's strictly mindless in all the bad ways. So much so that it ceases to even be mindless fun.

I require engagement from my games. That is to say, I require them to be games -- you know, interactive and thoughtful?

Re:A video flick with included masturbation button (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481259)

I require that my bananas taste like steak. That is to say, I require them to be steak -- you know, brown and meaty?

Observe the living contradiction that is hipstanerd, who spends his time playing video games, but /only/ the brainy ones. When reviewing things, you must evaluate them from perspective of what they were trying to accomplish, not whether they fulfilled the limits of your dreams and desires. So it lacks a deep and engaging plot, the characters have no back stories, and there are no choices to make to define your player's charater. That's not what it set out to do, so it didn't fail in their implementation. Does it bring quest after quest of orgiastic click fests with a modicum of strategy, induced by hordes of enemies with varying strengths and weaknesses that test how well we've designed our characters with the limited choices given? Yeah, I guess. Did it do that well? Oh, I totally think so.

Bananas aren't liked by everyone, but they are what they are. You would have to completely misunderstand that most basic of premises to criticize them for not being something else entirely.

Linux support (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#41480753)

I had hoped that the Linux release of the original meant that the sequel would have it from the beginning. Unfortunately, this is not the case, which means I won't be purchasing this game now, I don't want more Windows software. Hopefully they'll do a Linux port of this game before it becomes irrelevant. Too bad they don't have one now, or they could have my twenty bucks, too.

Re:Linux support (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480813)

It probably would have cost more than twenty bucks to make a Linux port.

Re:Linux support (3, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#41480869)

It probably would have cost more than twenty bucks to make a Linux port.

I know you think you're funny, but most people spend more than I do on the humble bundles (well, most linux users) so clearly there's a paying linux games market out there, and given that most people are willing to spend more than I am, if I'm willing to buy this game, there's probably a bunch of other people willing to do the same. The engine probably didn't have to change dramatically between games (though what do I know?) and if it didn't then there's no excuse for there not being a Linux version right now.

Re:Linux support (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481265)

No, a number of people make large donations to the Humble Bundle in the name of Linux to skew the average. The reason the Humble Bundle people don't release the data on median payment amount is to maintain their convenient lie.

Re:Linux support (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#41481391)

No, a number of people make large donations to the Humble Bundle in the name of Linux to skew the average.

Well, perhaps when/if Torchlight 2 comes out for Linux, maybe those people can buy multiple copies and send them to people :p

Re:Linux support (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about 2 years ago | (#41481635)

I suspect they'll do a late in life cycle port to include in a Humble Bundle if it's (Humble Bundle) going strong still.

Currently there's about $100k per game in developer tips (assuming default split, and all games, including bonus previous participants are paid equal). Large games are often ported by a few people in their spare-time over a year, I imagine that effort is worth $100k. I also suspect prior to the Humble Bundle very few copies of the Linux version were sold. The fact that Linux compatibility is a requirement of being eligible for the bundle makes me believe that porting a cleanly coded (or flash based) game to Linux is a no-brainer for a developer, it's probably not worth it until the higher priced market drys up though.

Re:Linux support (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481809)

It is already confirmed by many to run in the latest Wine. I'm playing the demo on Ubuntu 12.04 and Wine 1.5 with the latest Nvidia drivers.

4-pack on Steam is only $60 (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480789)

If you have 4 friends(I know that's a stretch) you can buy a 4-pack on Steam and pay only $15 each. Also the music is done from one of the original Diablo people, so it's great too.

Re:4-pack on Steam is only $60 (5, Funny)

Minwee (522556) | about 2 years ago | (#41481217)

If you have 4 friends(I know that's a stretch) you can buy a 4-pack on Steam

And then pick the one friend you like the least and tell them they can't play with you. That's brilliant!

Orig. Torchlight is part of current Humble Bundle (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480811)

Just a note that the original Torchlight is part of the current Humble Bundle (Humble Bundle 6) found at http://www.humblebundle.com/

My sentiments exactly... (2)

Freddybear (1805256) | about 2 years ago | (#41480817)

I think I had exactly the same experience with this game. I like the cartoony art style and the fast chaotic battles. "Normal" difficulty seemed like Easy Mode, and I ran through it with an Embermage in about 23 hours of play. "Veteran" difficulty, on the other hand, requires some attention to get the build right and constantly keeping up with weapon and armor upgrades. But there is plenty of all that to choose from, and each of the character types can win with one of several different build styles. I might even stick my toe into the Elite waters.

Pedigree (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480853)

The review forgot to mention that the creators of Diablo 2 left Blizzard North and Diablo 3 was made by a whole new crew. Granted those guys have some pedigree too, but not in the ARPG genre (Fallout, Total Annihilation, etc.). Several of the Blizzard North guys eventually worked their way around to Runic games, and TL 1 and 2 are both products of the guys who made Diablo 2.

There's a reason TL 2 plays so well and is so friendly to players the way D2 was. I've often thought but never had proof of it until now: video games are an art and are about vision of the team leads. Programming is important, graphics are important, but those are technical aspects; gameplay is an art form and very dependent upon who is making the game, not what studio, or what graphics or technical aspects it has. No set of games have illustrated this point more clearly than the recent launches of D3 and TL2.

Re:Pedigree (5, Interesting)

coldandcalculating (1311907) | about 2 years ago | (#41481029)

It's worth mentioning that the guy who did the music for D1 and D2 is also at Runic..

Who can ever forget the reverberating guitar chord that welcomed you first into the world of Diablo?

Re:Pedigree (1)

twocows (1216842) | about 2 years ago | (#41481937)

This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2evIg-aYw8 [youtube.com]

I admit, I also like it a lot. Some of the Act 2 music from D2 was really good, as well.

Re:Pedigree (3, Informative)

afidel (530433) | about 2 years ago | (#41482485)

You can get the entire TL2 soundtrack for free here [joystiq.com] . I though that was a nice gift from the guys at Runic (makes me feel a bit better about the lifetime Hellgate subscription).

Re:Pedigree (1)

theArtificial (613980) | about 2 years ago | (#41482867)

Thanks for the link, I'm a fan of the music. I know he also did the music for The Burning Crusade!

(makes me feel a bit better about the lifetime Hellgate subscription).

=(

Money money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480883)

At 20 bucks the game is just begging to be played by anyone with a little itch for isometric action rpgs. It is smooth, crisp, and handles well. Sure, Diablo III has more "stuff" and motion videos and other things, but given the price difference between the games you have to wonder where Blizzard put all that extra money (real money trading, anyone?).

Also, I was one of those that grabbed D3 hook line and sinker. The first game was fun, the second was pretty great, and the third.. it was okay. When I could play - because the servers would crash and lock me out of my single player game. I suppose most of us didn't read the fine print to notice we actually bought an MMO except without the whole.. MM part of it.

In any case, just go buy it. It is the price of a good cut of steak and like a good steak, the game is delicious.

(PS: Real men don't use A-1.)

Good deal for $20 (2, Informative)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | about 2 years ago | (#41480885)

I haven't played D3, but I've played TL1 and D2, and I've now played through TL2.

Cons: In my opinion, the storytelling of TL2 is somewhat less compelling and expansive than was that of D2. Also, the D2 had good cinematics, and most (all?) of its narration was recorded voices, rather than just text that you have to read.

Pros: Lots of fun, low hardware requirements, good randomization of maps. Fun approach to playing random maps after you beat the game (I'm not going to spoil it.) No DRM.

And last but not least, it's a great entertainment value for $20. Money very well in my case. From the reviews, I don't think I would have considered $60 for D3 to be a worthwhile purchase.

Re:Good deal for $20 (1)

ifrag (984323) | about 2 years ago | (#41481295)

Cons: In my opinion, the storytelling of TL2 is somewhat less compelling and expansive than was that of D2.

Agree, the bar has been set pretty low on the story, I'm only vaguely paying any attention to it myself. But at least you can tell they put their focus in on the game play. With where it's at, I'd almost prefer the story to be scaled back even more, with just some brief hand waving about go forth and strike down evil.

Most rogue-likes never even bothered with it at all. And if you didn't dig through the readme files or hear it from someone, the only obvious thing was "we need to go deeper" and yet people still played the hell out of those and had a great time of it.

Re:Good deal for $20 (1)

DudemanX (44606) | about 2 years ago | (#41482957)

Conversely the story in Diablo 3 is terrible. The fact that you're beaten over the head with it on each play through only makes it more annoying. Diablo 3 would be a much better game if the bad story wasn't always in your way.

Azmodan is Baghdad Bob.

Debunked? No. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41480891)

I've spent time reading people's meager, whiny complaints about this gift of the gods that has been put on sale for a mere twenty dollars. Sure, you can only reallocate the last three skill points you've spent, and you can't redo all your stats and skills once you're leveled up. That's so that you learn from your mistakes and go back and play the game again. There's no one to hold your hand to find the area where the quest is at. There's a marker on your map for you to aim for, and that's more than any player deserves. The quests are still rather simplistic, and of the form to go kill someone or a group of someones, or to collect a thing, or a group of things. Again, the quests are merely a vehicle to get you into new areas. If you happen to kill the guy that advances the plot, that's a bonus. If you stop to talk to an NPC, the world does not stop for you. Enemies will continue to attack you as you choose your quest reward, because you were too stupid to clear out the area of any possible threats before sitting down to talk. I think I've now sufficiently debunked any negative points I've read in other reviews

No you haven't, because "you're dumb" is not a refutation.

Re:Debunked? No. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481399)

Yeah, his 'debunking' sounded like nothing but whiny nerd rage. "WAAAAAH people have different opinions! How dare they!"

Hey CowboyNeal, go lose some weight, fatty.

Buyer Beware (0, Troll)

XiaoMing (1574363) | about 2 years ago | (#41480919)

There's one thing OP doesn't mention, and TBH I think it's worth noting:

It's a pretty lonely game with a garbage multiplayer matchmaking setup/interface. One of the best things about Diablo II was getting online in super filled games and playing through with a huge group of people (who weren't necessarily your friends), while desperately trying to stack auras, barbarian yells, etc. trying to survive an everything-immune rakanishu.

But as with BL2, Torchlight doesn't put any time/effort/funding into providing/maintaining any form of centralized multiplayer servers (everything is P2P), and I think that's one thing that makes them fall very, very short of being a "Diablo Clone (with guns!)" if you've even remotely associated Diablo (II+) with multiplayer.

Also, to all the whiners bitching about b.net DLC, it's a fucking PITA to accidentally overwrite one set of local files with another if you play from any more than one location, or play with a character from 3 hours ago, because Steam servers don't want to update, or you didn't "log in" a second time while in-game just to update your character, or your computer you played on earlier went to sleep rather than properly quitting steam to upload your local files to teh cl0ud.

For disclosure, I prepaid for BL2 (the DLC pack was worthless about 30 minutes into the game, and now the game's already at half of what I paid for in two weeks of release), was disappointed and purchased TL2, and now regret being $60 in the hole.

Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? (2)

ant-1 (120272) | about 2 years ago | (#41480991)

This is not really a comment, more of a question: wasn't the biggest complain about Diablo 2 the fact that it was wide open to cheating/hacking due to the fact that you could bring online the stuff you acquired offline? I'm not really familiar with the genre, I only played like three D2 sessions and no torchlight so don't bash me for my ignorance but isn't it exactly the same here ?

What is gonna prevent my neighbor's kid from hacking the sandworm-slaying-axe-of-madness and bringing it online to cut me in half? Damn kid, always playing on my lawn instead of grinding his gear like a real man.

Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? (2)

psycho12345 (1134609) | about 2 years ago | (#41481151)

It is. Basically since it is fully moddable with no server of any kind really (the game runs P2P), there is nothing stopping people from changing their char to anything. Runic did already disable console commands in multiplayer and do have a way to show that you are using a modded char, but since everything is client side, that will almost certainly be bypassed. Basically, TL2 and D3 took the 2 halves of D2 game play and went full bore in opposite directions. TL2 has no secure server of any kind, whereas D3 is only that. Both gain some advantages from that but they also emphasize the disadvantages. TL2 will never have any large scale anything, there is 0 point to PvP or trading with anyone, or with ladder seasons. The game pretty much is for solo play, LAN play and for small groups of trusted people. Otherwise it is no differnt then D2 Open B.net aka a Hackfest Free for All. D3 will obviously not have offline play and LAN, but for the most part, people can reasonably (not perfect of course) trade and (when they get it patched in) PvP.

Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? (1)

afidel (530433) | about 2 years ago | (#41482549)

I'm hoping TL2 will develop a community more like Neverwinter Nights where just because you can play with a modded character doesn't mean it'll be a hackfest. With the engine being so open we should see some interesting mods come out over the next year or two. The Steam version having a mod manager will probably help some in that regard.

Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about 2 years ago | (#41481185)

> wasn't the biggest complain about Diablo 2 the fact that it was wide open to cheating/hacking due to the fact that you could bring online the stuff you acquired offline?

Only the hackers played open b.net -- that lets you import your offline characters

Most of the people played closed b.net -- the servers and game are 100% on Blizzard's server. It was more hack-resistant, but nothing is ever 100% hack-proof (due to lag).

There was a bad bug where you could "fuse" items in closed b.net but that was fixed pretty fast. Duping bugs kept getting found due to the sheer determination of hackers wanting to understand and tear apart the client code. The game is mostly hack-free these days with 1.13; the biggest problem is the spam-bots which has almost completely killed the community. Everyone plays in private games. :-/

Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? (1)

lgw (121541) | about 2 years ago | (#41482521)

but nothing is ever 100% hack-proof (due to lag).

Why would lag enable (item-related) hacks? I know Blizzard games have had some duping hacks involving induced lag over the years, but that's just crappy code. As long as you don't trust your clients, there's just no opening for item-related hacks.

Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? (2)

Yosho (135835) | about 2 years ago | (#41481203)

This is not really a comment, more of a question: wasn't the biggest complain about Diablo 2 the fact that it was wide open to cheating/hacking due to the fact that you could bring online the stuff you acquired offline?

That is a complaint, but not really a big one. There's a vocal minority that complains about it, but most people don't really care what other people do as long as it's not affecting their own game.

What is gonna prevent my neighbor's kid from hacking the sandworm-slaying-axe-of-madness and bringing it online to cut me in half?

For one, PVP is not only entirely consensual, you also have to enable the console and know the right command to enable it. It's impossible for somebody to attack you unless you both know how and consent to it.

But that aside, if somebody jumps into your game with a level 100 character and starts one-shotting everything and you don't want them to, the solution is pretty easy: kick them out of your game and ban them. Problem solved.

Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481335)

This is not really a comment, more of a question: wasn't the biggest complain about Diablo 2 the fact that it was wide open to cheating/hacking due to the fact that you could bring online the stuff you acquired offline?

Not really, no. D2 is split into a number of different play modes: Single Player (SP), SP Hardcore (HC), LAN, LAN HC, Battle.net (bnet), bnet Ladder, bnet HC, and bnet HC Ladder. You can import SP characters to LAN games, but AFAIK (recently quit D2 to play Path of Exile) you could never import SP characters into bnet.

So, the cheating/hacking was mitigated to an area where you *could* do that if you wanted to, because SP and LAN character data is stored locally. Of course there were other issues with Bnet, such as all the bots and spammers, but I digress.

PS) There are some bnet exploits/cheats that I know of such as "perming" which was glitching cubed Ethereal armor to keep the math error applied. Glitch rushing, where you use a temporary character to advance the story-arc of a newbie in order to jump difficulty modes.

Diablo 3 is fine. (5, Insightful)

Petersko (564140) | about 2 years ago | (#41481071)

I got my $60 out of it, and so did almost everybody who's bitching about it. I don't know where anybody got this idea that their one-time payment (that has become progressively cheaper as it failed to increase with inflation) should give them hundreds of hours of entertainment.

If you check your played time and it's over 100 hours, maybe you should stop whining about how crappy you think it is, because clearly your bitchy brain and your gaming brain are having an argument.

Actually, the old man in me wishes the entire gaming community would benefit from a complete media blackout when it comes to video games. Then they can buy a game without expectations, enjoy it without absorbing the negative crap from other gamers, and be satisfied.

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (3, Insightful)

Feneban (2740683) | about 2 years ago | (#41481195)

I don't think the point was getting your $60 worth. D3 was in "development" for 10 years and it ended up having the main feature ended up being the Real Money Auction House. For the time that Blizzard invested in the game, one would expect more than 4 Act's of similar looking tilesets and models. I've only played through 2.5 Acts of Torchlight 2 and I'm pretty sure I've seen at least twice the models that D3 had. I was able to sell $40 worth of gear on the RMAH to at least get some of my money back on D3.

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481315)

I sold one item for $175. I would say that D3 is now the best game I've ever owned for that. Albeit they charge 15% transfer free and on top of that another 15% transfer to paypal so it ended up only being $150 in the end. Pretty brutal transaction fees but worth it in the end. My game is now free.

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (1)

shaunbr (563633) | about 2 years ago | (#41482055)

Who the hell would pay $5, let alone $175, for a piece of virtual gear in a game like Diablo 3? There's a sucker born every minute...

(Not that I'd complain about taking such a sucker's money - I'd be rubbing my hands in glee if someone chose to pay as much for an item of mine as they did for yours.)

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41482425)

Someone who would rather work (payment amount / earnings per hour) number of hours and have fun blowing stuff up for an hour instead of grinding for greater than random_number*(payment amount / earnings per hour) hours to get to the same place that would allow them to blow up stuff for an hour?

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41482141)

sold about $150 worth of stuff, the big ones being a nice legendary helm on the release night of 1.0.4 and plans to make level 61 legendary pants. With that being said it's kind of hard for me to talk badly about D3 since I'm +$90.

Bought TL2 and even after only putting 2-3 hours into it, I'm already starting to get bored. I think Blizzard ruined me and now I'm going to have to make money in order to game

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (0)

Talderas (1212466) | about 2 years ago | (#41482097)

I've made over $500 off of Diablo 3 after their tax.

Best. Game. Ever.

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (3, Insightful)

lgw (121541) | about 2 years ago | (#41482577)

$500? After how many total hours of D3 gaming? Is this more than minimum wage where you live?

Gaming because it's fun is one thing, but as a way to make money it's not at all impressive, at least in most places.

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (5, Insightful)

steelfood (895457) | about 2 years ago | (#41481547)

What? Where did money and hours of gameplay come into this? Sure, you spent $60 (not to mention it used to be $30 for a decent game) and you expect $60 worth of gameplay. But I don't think that was ever the gripe about Diablo 3.

Diablo 3 cannot be played offline.

Diablo 3 cannot be played without a Battle.net account.

Diablo 3 cannot be played without Blizzard's nod each time.

Diablo 3 will stop working mid-way through playing if your connection to Blizzard's servers fail.

What does hours of gameplay have to do with anything when the gripe is about purchasing a product and not be able to play with it whenever, wherever, and however.

As far as we're concerned, that's not what we define as buying a game, at least not to us pre-MMO generation gamers.

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (2)

marcop (205587) | about 2 years ago | (#41481943)

I agree with some of what you mention, but my biggest gripe about D3 is that it wasn't fun. It seemed more like a job than a game. The AH is so heavily integrated that I was spending way too much time in the AH trying to get a good item because the drops generally sucked.

I've only played a couple hours of TL2 so far and I like it for the price. It is fun so far. I like the D2/D3 atmosphere better. D2/D3 had better storytelling and voice acting. It made the game more immersive. TL2 has some of these, but it could have had more.

There are some elements of TL2 that are really cool. I really liked the gold mine (can't remember the name). Can't wait to see what more this game has to offer.

IMO, so far, D2 is the best of the three. With more time perhaps TL2 may outshine it.

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (1)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | about 2 years ago | (#41482039)

The problem Blizzard faced with Diablo 3 is that you cant have the real money auction house with a game playable offline. The items need to be controlled by blizzard via their servers.

A lot of people say blizzard took away offline play because of DRM, but thats not the case. Torchlight 2 is a FAR better game, but all of the items are hackable and so are your characters

Re:Diablo 3 is fine. (3, Insightful)

shaunbr (563633) | about 2 years ago | (#41482019)

There's definitely a lot of unfounded hate for Diablo 3. It's certainly not Diablo 2, but I got my money's worth out of it.

The main problem with Diablo 3 is the auction house. Not even the RMAH - just the auction house in general. The main draw to an ARPG, and pretty much the entire endgame, is farming for better loot. In Diablo 2, you had to find all the good gear yourself, or make an effort to seek out other people to trade with. There was an entire rune-based economy that facilitated the trades, but you still had to go to the effort to set prices, find willing buyers/sellers, and complete the transaction.

With the Diablo 3 auction house, any piece of gear that you could possibly think of - and almost certainly better than any piece you'll ever find on your own - is available to buy with your gold. Some of these items cost next to nothing because the market is so flooded with gear. Why bother grinding for loot when you can get stuff that's so much better so easily? The auction house removed the one major motivator to keep playing like we all did in Diablo 2 - the hope for better loot on whatever you happened to kill next. Without that sense of excitement, there's really no point in playing long term.

Come on.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481237)

Did you really just complain that the story is an issue where the hero from the previous game all of a sudden is the bad guy because his body was taken over and the town ravaged? Right after you say diablo 2 is the best game ever? Where the story is you are chasing the fucker from the first game who at the end shoved the bad guys soulstone into his forehead? really? Did you forget the part in diablo 2 where you go back to the ruined tristam? REALLY?

Biased review (1)

Dunge (922521) | about 2 years ago | (#41481321)

This is a bit exaggerated. Best game ever? Just looking at the graphics make me want to puke.

Re:Biased review (1)

shaunbr (563633) | about 2 years ago | (#41482087)

Graphics are not my main consideration when looking for a good game to play, and I question the intelligence of anyone who considers the quality of the graphics above anything else.

Good graphics can make a game with solid gameplay even better. However, no amount of graphical polish is going to make up for shitty gameplay. I'll take a good roguelike over a game like Final Fantasy XIII any day.

Next to WoW (1)

Brian Feldman (350) | about 2 years ago | (#41481433)

This is the most addictive RPG I have played in my life. I really love the rapid fire pace of the gear and specialization point systems and I only have one real complaint with the combat: it can be pretty hard to actually get your character moving somewhere instead of attacking once you are mostly-surrounded. Cheap deaths are pretty frustrating and the game mechanics are solid but not perfect.

Re:Next to WoW (2)

kevkingofthesea (2668309) | about 2 years ago | (#41481521)

There's actually a key (bound to tilde ~ by default) that will move you towards where your cursor is regardless of enemies.

Wrong comparison Path of Exile is the game to best (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41481469)

What Torchlight 2 should be compared against is Path of Exile, which is what D3 ought to have been. It's nearing open beta now, with the odd f2p weekend, so I'd highly recommend anyone who was into D2 to check it out.

Re:Wrong comparison Path of Exile is the game to b (1)

shaunbr (563633) | about 2 years ago | (#41482129)

What's with all the Path of Exile shills these days? It's just another shitty free-to-play game that will eventually be forced to switch to the same 'pay to win' model that nearly every other F2P game already has.

With few exceptions, I want to know what a game is going to cost me to play *before* I start playing. Charge me up front - don't make me piss away a few bucks here or a few bucks there to get full enjoyment out of the experience.

D3 was rushed, but is aging well. (0)

The Living Fractal (162153) | about 2 years ago | (#41481593)

Early criticism of D3 are valid, but those are a thing of the past. D3 will grow and continue to improve and enjoy a much larger, more involved community and trading market than TL2 ever will. And the new changes around the corner in 1.05 are a vast step in the right direction.

Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. (4, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | about 2 years ago | (#41481889)

Early criticism of D3 are valid, but those are a thing of the past.

No they aren't.

The core game design is fucking retarded. The gear upgrade path is market based. In some sense its much more efficient to gear up in D3 by playing "auction house trader" than "hack and slash dungeon crawler".

That's fine if you -want- to play a trading game. But if that's what you want, play EVE or something that actually does a good job of it.

D3 is a lousy ARPG.

Its a half decent part time job though.

larger .... trading market than TL2 ever will

Well yeah, that's true, but you say it like its a good thing. I don't crawl dungeons so that I can sell things over the internet, to fund buying other things over the internet so that I can crawl dungeons more efficiently in order to sell even more things over the internet.

I'm happy TL2 will never be that.

Enjoy your part time job.

And the new changes around the corner in 1.05 are a vast step in the right direction.

D3 can't be fixed. They need to start over from scratch.

Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. (2)

PrimalChrome (186162) | about 2 years ago | (#41482599)

What exactly are you basing this opinion on? Out of about 25 people, with the exception of ONE person, everyone I know that purchased D3 has stopped playing it. Their reasons span the full spectrum of the howling you read online...but all of them stem from "it really isn't that fun." If you listen to any gaming podcasts or keep up with any non-blizzard, non-fanboi forums, you will read the exact same story time and time again.

D3 probably sold 100x the copies of T2 due to fabricated hype, WoW fanbois, and D2 fans hoping to continue the wonderful replayability that they experienced with the first two games. Now, like so many other big budget games that rely on hype and flash to line the pockets of their parent corporation.....the players have fled in droves. Yes, D3 will probably have an overall larger community. Yes, they will be rabid. Continue to grow....no, the numbers don't lie there. But more involved? Probably not. All it will take are a few decent groups modding T2 and you will see long term and continued enthusiastic support for the game that could eclipse D3.

T2 is the worthy successor to the D1/D2 legacy.

Torchlight 2 is the better Diablo. (4, Interesting)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | about 2 years ago | (#41481705)

I've been playing Torchlight 2 for a few days now, and right away I knew this was the better game. The art style is not better because its cartoony, its better because its designed by better artists, who really understand appeal, quality of animation, and design. This game not only looks better, its just more fun. Diablo 3 was a huge let down. Diablo 3 had 1 interesting boss battle and it wasnt the final Diablo battle, which was a complete fucking disaster artistically. I mean Blizzard should redo the end of the game so that there actually is a climax and a resolve. Diablo 3 is so uneventful, and so poorly designed artistically. I'll give Blizzard a nod for a good item system, auction house, and decent shading and lighting but overall Torchilight 2 makes blizzard look like amateurs.

Even the spells, and abilities all look better, more colorful, better particles, better everything. Torchlight 2 just feels right. And hey its 6 player!

Torchlight 2 is the best $20s you can spend on games right now. Torchlight 2 is so good, you will feel ripped off by Diablo 3.

Re:Torchlight 2 is the better Diablo. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41482143)

From the recent experiences with World of Warcraft, I'm thoroughly convinced that Blizzard *is* amateurish, now. Not necessarily that any person picked up off the street could do the jobs, but that the people who have the knowledge there don't necessarily have the talent to make it above average.

Re:Torchlight 2 is the better Diablo. (1)

shaunbr (563633) | about 2 years ago | (#41482185)

Even if Diablo 3 had better art design compared to Torchlight 2 (and I actually think it does, slightly), the very polished, fast paced gameplay of Torchlight 2 makes it the better game overall. By the time I stopped playing D3, it felt like work - I had to grind Inferno to get a chance at decent gear, but my existing gear wasn't good enough to make surviving in Inferno possible. Even when I found gear, the stuff on the auction house was significantly better anyway. Playing Torchlight 2 doesn't feel like work, and the gear drops frequently enough that every kill, and even every broken urn, feels important.

Still like Path of Exile better, but it is good (1)

clintre (1078849) | about 2 years ago | (#41481993)

I am definitely pretty happy with Torchlight 2 and definitely like it better than D3. Still prefer Path of Exile, despite it still being in closed beta. It is some much more like Diablo 2 than Diablo 3 in the dark style ARPG. I find TL2 still a bit watered down in what you can do. However it is a blast and the fact that it is easy to play via LAN with friends makes it a great addition. Choice is a good thing!

The last game i bought (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41482267)

The last game i actually bought was diablo 2
NEWSFLASH never heard a torchlight till now
and i got an older pc
YES guys my bad i tried it via piracy.....bit laggy but an adjustment and its all good
NOW as i see a lot of the old D2 crew is at runic and cause this isnt a bad game at all and 20$ for no DRM and well when i get my disability check RUNIC is going to be the first game company i buy a game from since the box set of diablo 2

NOW that editor thing hung up on me....ill retry but if it works , i might get a few buds and we might just sit about a month making levels for you all.....

I'm about to also inside a month finally come into the modern age with a brand new 32gb RAM 8 core pc for YUP legit video animation....
ya know i got wacky ideas and my thoughts is maybe ill create a few vids of my own d2 style and send em over free a charge ....
who knows maybe in future torchlight three might get a more cinematic cut scene video stuffs going on....

the fact is they did this aspect cheap cause its very very expensive to pay for software ( again going form welfare to disability and trying to get such for past 8 years in a legal fight which i won means they owe me a few bucks...thi sis me going legite on all the software that pirates help me learn with [and the way it should be try before you buy ] )

the tings i liked...when you put on armour and weapons the guy puts them on...( one caveat the items all look same again this is where a blender guy, 3dsmax , lightwave, cinema 4d person could sit back and spend a month doing up variations....)

hehe but for 20$ VERY NICE job
ya know what they should do is offer out for license say for 2-3 grand and let you make your own game and resell it via there engine.
sort of a unity way....

saw borderlands on that lil pirate circle but i saw way way way way too many issues that ill stay away form even though those that get it to work also like it....

AS you can see im honest and im the guy that really put his money where his mouth is and when the DRM really started flowing I STOPPED BUYING and in fact there are very very few games ill even pirate....

oh on torchlight 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41482477)

only have 98 mega video on this computer.....
thats the onboard , and many pcs that are out there shipped this way.....if they wanted to get low end sales they should have considered that ......128 meg video well and nvidia well um er we'll have to wait and see...

Mac version (2)

jsdcnet (724314) | about 2 years ago | (#41482433)

I will buy this game the instant there is a native OS X version available. Loved the first one but I don't have any Windows machines any more and I'm not messing around with virtualization or whatever just for a game.
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