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ASIC Seeks Power To Read Your Emails

samzenpus posted about a year and a half ago | from the let's-take-a-look-mate dept.

Australia 114

nemesisrocks writes "ASIC, Australia's version of the SEC, has called for phone call and internet data to be stored by Australian ISPs, in a submission to the Parliamentary Inquiry into mandatory data retention. Not only does the authority want the powers to intercept the times, dates and details of telecommunications information, it also wants access to the contents of emails, social media chats and text messages."

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114 comments

Inquity ? (3, Interesting)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486079)

Sorry, I am not a native English speaker, and a quick web search does not yield anything on the word "Inquity". Can somebody explain the word?

Re:Inquity ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486097)

It's the opposite of an Outquity

Like quiting in and quiting out

TFS title (2)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486553)

ASIC Seeks Power To Read Your Emails

In best Yakoff Smirnoff [wikimedia.org] voice: "Wow, what a chip!"

Re:TFS title (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about a year and a half ago | (#41489981)

That was my first reaction as well. I was just wondering - who'd ever want to design it?

Re:TFS title (4, Insightful)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year and a half ago | (#41490533)

Indeed, at least they said "the Aussie equivalent of the SEC" which wil still leave anyone not in the US or Australia clueless.

Damn it, people EXPAND ACRONYMS! Especially obscure acronyms that are the same as tech or science acronyms. If you're talking about cops, don't say "LEO" because to us, an LEO isn't a law enforcement officer, it's low earth orbit. To the one or two of us who don't live in Australia, an ASIC is a chip.

Gees...

Re:Inquity ? (4, Insightful)

ByteSlicer (735276) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486101)

It's most probably a typo of the word "Inquiry". The keys R and T are adjacent on q qwerty keyboard...

Re:Inquity ? (0)

ByteSlicer (735276) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486117)

on q qwerty keyboard...

Lol. Just thinking of qwerty made me type a Q instead of an A (azerty keyboard).

Re:Inquity ? (2)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year and a half ago | (#41488131)

No, Parliamentary "Iniquity" sounds about right. Go look it up.

"Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty."

Re:Inquity ? (1)

reboot246 (623534) | about a year and a half ago | (#41489135)

That is precisely the right word. Iniquity is premeditated sin which is engaged in with full knowledge, often with a measure of defiance - and even contempt.

Governments all over the world seem to have nothing but contempt for the people and they are grabbing more and more power despite what the people want.

Re:Inquity ? (4, Funny)

ComaVN (325750) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486109)

probably a misspelling of iniquity:
in-iq-ui-ty
Noun: Immoral or grossly unfair behavior.

sounds about right

Re:Inquity ? (1)

westlake (615356) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486273)

Sorry, I am not a native English speaker, and a quick web search does not yield anything on the word "Inquity". Can somebody explain the word?

It is called a typo --- and it happens because submissions can't be spell-checked by the browser or the software that drives Slashdot.

Re:Inquity ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486583)

Your browser can't spell check? Sounds like you should switch to FireFox, it spell checks for me just fine.

Re:Inquity ? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486711)

Your browser can't spell check? Sounds like you should switch to FireFox, it spell checks for me just fine.

In deed, since eye ooze Firefox, eye know lounger have spelling miss takes inn may posts bee cause it chows two me all errors witch eye make.

Re:Inquity ? (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year and a half ago | (#41487381)

It is called a typo --- and it happens because submissions can't be spell-checked by the browser or the software that drives Slashdot.

Firefox's spell check works on submissions, but it won't proofread for you.

It's Psychostory (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486103)

According to Harry Seldon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hari_Seldon), if a people begins as a prison colony it must necessarily end up as a police state. It's inevitable.

Re:It's Psychostory (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486213)

That explains the USA then !!

It must have been onerous for the British to have to send convicts to Australia when they found out they couldn't send them to America anymore due to the squabbles there with the French...oh, and a few ex convict colonists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convicts_in_Australia

You're welcome.

Re:It's Psychostory (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486491)

That explains the USA then !!

The country that was initially settled by religious nutjobs, which Europe was glad to get rid of?

Re:It's Psychostory (2)

causality (777677) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486735)

That explains the USA then !!

The country that was initially settled by religious nutjobs, which Europe was glad to get rid of?

Indeed, my theory is that they could have stopped the Puritans from making the voyage, but ... why would they?

I can picture them now. "Heh, let THEM get upset over any future exposed nipples!" And long before there was television or a Super Bowl. That's some real foresight.

Re:It's Psychostory (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486805)

That explains the USA then !!

It must have been onerous for the British to have to send convicts to Australia when they found out they couldn't send them to America anymore due to the squabbles there with the French...oh, and a few ex convict colonists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convicts_in_Australia

You're welcome.

Nah, here in the US we got all the crazy religious types who England told to GTFO. We're headed to a theocracy, not a police state!

Re:It's Psychostory (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486561)

"According to Harry Seldon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hari_Seldon), "

Insightful? The idiot has 2 typos in the first-name alone.

Re:It's Psychostory (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486757)

"According to Harry Seldon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hari_Seldon), "

Insightful? The idiot has 2 typos in the first-name alone.

He probably confused him with Hari Potter. :-)

(BTW, the post's title is also wrong: He meant Psychohistory. [wikipedia.org]

Re:It's Psychostory (4, Interesting)

Cimexus (1355033) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486643)

Funny how Australia gets the rap as being a prison colony, when in fact one of the key reasons for it being so was because, post-1776, they couldn't send prisoners to the American colonies anymore. The two countries have a more similar early history than most people know. Australia seems to have ended up with the convict stereotype though.

Re:It's Psychostory (2)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486743)

Estimated number of people transported to British North America is 50,000

Estimated number of people sent to Australia as prisoners in 80-years of transportation is 165,000

Estimated number of free people who emigrated to Australia in 1852 alone 370,000

The number of convicts transported is tiny in both countries compared to the number who emigrated ...

Re:It's Psychostory (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486785)

The number of convicts transported is tiny in both countries compared to the number who emigrated ...

...before they got caught...

Re:It's Psychostory (1)

kiddygrinder (605598) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486673)

america/england are 50 times closer to a police state to australia, so harry seldon doesn't seem to be kicking many goals

Re:It's Psychostory (1)

Dr Max (1696200) | about a year and a half ago | (#41487167)

They have more surveillance in the uk and usa, but there are less rights in Australia. Cops in Australia can do what ever they want, no need for pesky warrants or anything like that over here, they just apply for one latter if they find something.

Re:It's Psychostory (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41487175)

All three look about the same to me.

Re:It's Psychostory (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486689)

Errr... can we send you some more convicts?? We've got too many for our prisons to cope that we're having to hold them in embassies now!!

Re:It's Psychostory (2)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year and a half ago | (#41487521)

You spelled his name wrong, it's not Harry, it's Hari. And I've read all the Foundation books, but your "if a people begins as a prison colony it must necessarily end up as a police state" is nowhere to be found in my meatware database. Which book?

Pgp (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486105)

Going to have to start encrypting everything

ASIC SEC? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486151)

Not being american *or* australian, the summary was not terribly helpful.

What is the SEC?

Re:ASIC SEC? (2)

NoobixCube (1133473) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486275)

ASIC is the Australian Securities and Investments Commission. The SEC is The Securities and Exchanges Commission.

Re:ASIC SEC? (5, Informative)

TheP4st (1164315) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486315)

The Securities and Exchange Commission is the authority that oversee the stock and securities exchange market in the US, ASIC is the Australian equivalent.

Re:ASIC SEC? (0)

fafaforza (248976) | about a year and a half ago | (#41488163)

Don't they have Google where you are? The first result takes you to an article where each acronym is explained.

Datacenter Super sized. (2)

Krixa (2507352) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486155)

Do they even comprehend the amount of data this will be? This is just one step away from recording all telephone calls as well. 1984, we didn't learn anything.

Re:Datacenter Super sized. (4, Insightful)

Enter the Shoggoth (1362079) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486163)

Do they even comprehend the amount of data this will be?
This is just one step away from recording all telephone calls as well.
1984, we didn't learn anything.

Oh I think "we" did... "we" being our overlords - they read 1984 as a howto guide.

Re:Datacenter Super sized. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41487155)

Funny how this hackneyed "1984 as a guide" quote still manages to get +4 insightful. Now there's a way to karma whore!
1) Find article about some government flub
2) Write post saying "they used 1984 as a guide!!1!1"
3) Profit!

Re:Datacenter Super sized. (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486165)

I was going to say something similar. If they added phone conversations to the list would people be outraged? I would have thought so, but really, if they're not outraged over this already, what difference would adding phone conversations make?

Encrypt everything (5, Interesting)

Morgaine (4316) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486171)

Encryption of all your Internet comms has been recommended forever and a day, but the bulk of the population hasn't bothered so far because the "postman opening letters" hasn't been very overt and in the public eye.

Now that the politicians are all in the game of demanding their "right" to monitor everything, perhaps it's time that people will respond by finally encrypting everything and telling the police state advocates to sod off and stop terrorizing the population.

use AES encryption (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486187)

be smart

Re:Encrypt everything (2)

auric_dude (610172) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486229)

Email via Mozilla Thunderbird + Enigmail should give gnupg encryption good enough for most mail users. Can't find too many social media systems that offer gnupg as an option...

Re:Encrypt everything (2)

causality (777677) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486755)

Email via Mozilla Thunderbird + Enigmail should give gnupg encryption good enough for most mail users. Can't find too many social media systems that offer gnupg as an option...

Usually the purpose of encryption is to keep communications private. That's difficult when getting lots of attention is mostly the point.

You wouldn't encrypt a billboard, would you?

Re:Encrypt everything (4, Interesting)

pinkushun (1467193) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486365)

Also that implementing and using encryption for personal use is more techy than the average being can handle. I'm hoping that https://silentcircle.com/ [silentcircle.com] can approach this issue. Extra points for taking note of the founders...

Re:Encrypt everything (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486405)

Whether in Australia or the US or anywhere else for that matter the people shouldn't "need" to worry about encrypting their communications in any form when it comes to their government wanting to monitor everything. Not only is it simply a violation to peoples right to privacy but in my opinion it is also a blatant move towards what will inevitably result in a complete police state in the civilized world. Instead of worrying about encrypting your transmissions in whatever form we need to stand up and put our foots down. We the people are the ones that place the government in power and we the people should damn well have the ability to put them in their place. To anyone who says, "What's the big deal, they can monitor me I don't do anything wrong." isn't seeing the big picture by any means. We need to draw a "red line" for our governments (hehe). Enough is enough already. Sure, the world is dangerous and there are people out there up to no good... But, guess what.. Whether they monitor comms, or make every citizen line up in the morning to be strip searched before going about their day we are still going to have the bad elements in society and nothing they (government) does is going to change that and monitoring your own people like criminals is in and of itself in fact criminal.

Re:Encrypt everything (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486773)

enigmail...another enigma machine...whose side are you on

Re:Encrypt everything (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486873)

...perhaps it's time that people will respond by finally encrypting everything and telling the police state advocates to sod off and stop terrorizing the population.

Or, perhaps... they could vote for people that will put an end to this. I mean, if they really want to..

Re:Encrypt everything (1)

donaldm (919619) | about a year and a half ago | (#41487249)

...perhaps it's time that people will respond by finally encrypting everything and telling the police state advocates to sod off and stop terrorizing the population.

Or, perhaps... they could vote for people that will put an end to this. I mean, if they really want to..

Unfortunately it is difficult to vote for a government representative who has the courage to be vocal enough to put forward a good reason why stupid proposals like this should not be made law. The problem seems to be that the majority of people in nearly all political parties are IMHO a "bunch of technological cretins". While I don't think I am wrong with Australian government I would not be surprised if most governments world wide actually fall into this category.

To be fair the average voter would not have a clue either but if government brings out "think of the children" then most people would not argue against that otherwise they would be thought of as a paedophile or child molester. Even if you could try to explain to the average person that trying to save all emails would require enormous storage the cost of which would definitely be passed down to the consumer, most people would not understand.

Re:Encrypt everything (1)

ilsaloving (1534307) | about a year and a half ago | (#41487873)

In concept, yes, encryption is a good thing to have. Many web sites are now providing the option of https access.

But what about email? Even if you encrypt the connection between you and your email server, there's no guarantee that the next hop will be encrypted. What then?

Re:Encrypt everything (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41490563)

PGP has been a standard for email (with an RFC and everything!) for many years. It provides end-to-end encryption, so only you and the destination party can read it. It is integrated with many modern mailers, and is available as a plug-in option for others (e.g, Thunderbird has enigmail).

I use it - it's trivially easy to set up, and once you do, encrypting your emails can be done either by default, or as simple as checking a menu option before sending. It doesn't get much easier than that.

Cheaper to... (3, Insightful)

stephanruby (542433) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486179)

Wouldn't it be cheaper to close down the Australian stock exchange? Or just monitor the people who actively trade?

Not that this will prevent people from encrypting messages, or passing insider messages face-to-face.

Re:Cheaper to... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486207)

Easy now, we're still waiting for Conroys red underpants brigade to chime in on this one...

Me too (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486193)

Dear Australian Government,
I am having a yard sale next weekend. In order to achieve fair market value for the more valuable goods, I have implemented a closed bidding system. I am worried that some of my neighbours might game the system by discussing their bids and making backroom deals. I am seeking the power to log their phone calls as well as access to the contents of emails, social media chats and text messages.

Sincerely, John R. Citizen

Re:Me too (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486647)

Dear John Citizen,

we are sorry that we cannot allow you to do this because you did not append the mandatory cheque^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wthis would violate the privacy of other people.

Sincerely, the Australian Government.

Mandatory surveillance of innocent people (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486195)

So in effect:

1. You're only innocent because you haven't committed a crime yet
2. Thus they capture your data and store it
3. After you've committed your crime, the data is there to prosecute you
4. They've justified with reverse time causality.
5. Ergo time travel is real.

And if you don't commit a crime? Well obviously you haven't YET committed the crime that justified us putting you under surveillance in the past. So you must be a super cunning criminal. We'd better keep your data longer than 2 years, otherwise it might break the time-space continuum.

That's what it amounts to, calling everyone a criminal and using that to take away their right to privacy.

Re:Mandatory surveillance of innocent people (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486441)

You forgot a few steps;

6. Law is changed.
7. Data is checked for violations of the changed law.
8. You are a criminal.

To me the scary thing about data logging isn't what will be done with it now, but how those who inherit the data tomorrow will abuse it.

Re:Mandatory surveillance of innocent people (1)

sincewhen (640526) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486741)

Or how about this one?

They charge you withsomething.
They find no evidence to support the charges.
So they troll through your history and keep looking until they find something they can make stick, to show that they were right all along.

Uk porn law is that one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41487431)

Sounds like the UK porn law. Possession of any 'extreme' porn is a crime in the UK, so when they charge men with anything, they search their computers, and that becomes the easy to prosecute fall back crime they use. Since it also puts you on an sex offenders register, damages your life, and appears on any criminal background check etc. It's easy to use that lever to get other charges to stand.

They started out charging Chinese pirates selling DVDs, they'd trawl through the DVD's find porn, find something they could define as extreme then add that charge.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/16/extreme_pr0n_convictions/

They had a go at prosecuting a gay man who was into fisting and had photographed himself. They even lied to the jury and claimed the other person was 14... experts said he was in his twenties, if it was 14 then the jury could have been denied the right to check the photograph themselve. You can see a pattern of pushing laws and lying in the UK police, and nobody is really capable of stopping them.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/aug/08/extreme-porn-trial-simon-walsh

"Police also regularly misclassify images they discover. In the Stafford extreme pornography trial, my client was initially charged with being in possession of over 1,250 "extreme" images. Upon viewing them, it became clear that over 900 were of clothed performers not engaging in any form of sexual activity. That defendant was eventually acquitted by a jury of all charges."

Jacqui Smith is the one to blame for that law. Remember that name.

Re:Mandatory surveillance of innocent people (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41488359)

Just send spam to yourself by the giga of it...

Simple... And encrypt it so that they have a different file every time.

ASIC is useless (3, Interesting)

Aurix (610383) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486217)

ASIC is an absolute joke.

Their failure to act borders on the laughable, and now they want to read our private communications, presumably so that they can .... wait for it.... yet again, do nothing.

Re:ASIC is useless (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486231)

So the description "Australia's version of the SEC" is correct.

Given up the pretence to freedom and privacy? (3, Interesting)

Rogerborg (306625) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486227)

Australia, you used to be cool. What happened, bro?

Never mind frog boiling, they've just tossed the toad of liberty into the seething cauldron of totalitarianism and slammed the lid.

Seriously, guys, you're even making Soviet UKistan look like a shining beacon of individual rights now. Poor show.

Re:Given up the pretence to freedom and privacy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486277)

There's nothing about that power having been granted. So your comment comes a bit too early.

1984 - There, I said it, you have to read my post (2)

TapeCutter (624760) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486981)

I'm in Melbourne right now, I have some popcorn and a small telescope set up. I am waiting for the sky to fall. From all the slashdot reports I have read it should be spectacular. Granted I was disappointed by the great Aussie firewall hype, spent years observing a politician blowing smoke up a freshman senator's arse, but still haven't spotted the mythical beast. No hard feelings though, those long observations made me confident that what I was seeing was just some Machiavellian politics aimed at said senator.

As for TFA, regardless of the merits of the ASIC recommendations, I find it odd that the people who are ferociously against data retention for law enforcement purposes are often the same people who want the law to put corrupt executives/politicians in front of a firing squad. Now I have no delusions that corrupt executives/politicians are not (in general) dumb enough to incriminate themselves, so if they even suspect their electronic comms are being tucked away somewhere for a couple of tax returns then at a minimum they lose the benefit of those comms.

For the most part the "sky is falling"/1984 crowd are of an age where their worldview is driven by how their parents treated them and what they just started reading about on the net in the past 5yrs, they are outraged when they find the world is a messy place. It's like the first time they open their pay slip and start screaming about all the acronyms they don't understand taking a bite out of their hard-earned. It's the shock of moving from a sheltered idealized world paid for by mum and dad, to standing ankle deep in turds like the rest of us. They can't get past the turds, they can't understand why everyone else just shrugs and laughs at them squishing through their toes.

The wild west days of the internet are gone whether we like it or not. Businesses have been coming to the global village for about 15yrs now and they brought the sheriffs with them. It's still a wonderful place but in a different way, it has been domesticated and this generation of urban cowboys need to move on and find their own intellectual frontier.

1984: One of the greatest works of the 20th century, my 1970's government forced me to read it at HS. I went on later in life to read more from Orwell. He was without doubt a brilliant critic of all the major political ideologies. Yet the take home lesson I (eventually) got from reading Orwell's political critiques was best summed up by another Winston - "No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism".

Re:Given up the pretence to freedom and privacy? (2)

Cimexus (1355033) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486607)

Not really ... thats hyperbole. There's a big difference between ASIC wanting these powers and it actually getting them. A lot of crap like this has been tossed around by various government departments and MPs and senators over the last few years (e.g. Internet filter proposal from a few years ago, which never even made it to the Bill stage), but not much of it ever sees light of day as enacted law.

This is in the context of wider discussions at the moment in Australia about introducing data retention laws that would bring us into lime with the EU data retention Directives that already apply in much of the EU (including Britain). I doubt ASIC will get their particular wishes as it is impractical technologically and would be opposed by a fair proportion of the Parliament. Not to mention legal challenges etc. It's still very much just a fantasy in some ASIC director's head at the moment. The problem is Slashdot always reports on every random idea that someone in government has as if it were a done deal. If it gets to the stage of actually being introduced into Parliament then we can start to get more concerned about it.

Overall the UK has significantly more of these Orwellian laws actually enacted than AU does at the moment, if we're keeping score. And AU doesn't have the mass telecommunications trawling and interception that the US has had (or is rumoured to have) since 9/11 either.

Not that any of the above makes this palatable, but just taking a more realistic look at the actual situation on the ground in Australia, it's not that bad. At the moment, at least. It does threaten to get a lot worse, I agree.

ASIC!? Oh... (2, Funny)

ifrag (984323) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486237)

I was actually excited from the title, fabricating a custom chip to do this. Then the summary quickly dispels that.

Re:ASIC!? Oh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41489705)

I'm boycotting them over this story. Brooks makes way better running shoes anyway.

This is how it begins (4, Insightful)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486327)

Well, it's already begun, but it's another interesting example of how the police state develops. In an established democracy it's kind of difficult to simply introduce something akin to the Stasi - that worries people.

The trick is to grant unreasonable powers to a group that doesn't appear to have much to do with the average citizen (such as ASIC), or instead give it to a group with what people see as a very specific remit to act only in certain areas (TSA). In the case of ASIC, why should the average guy in the street worry about those stock exchange guys having this power - it's not as if they'll be using to snoop on regular guys. With the TSA, turning airports in to constitution free zones, people are fine with that because they think it's only happening in airports, when in fact they're spilling out in to other aspects of transport. Get people used to presenting documents at airports, train stations and state borders, and before long you'll be able to stop them anywhere and do it. Same with intrusive physical searches. When stopped on a random road, the patriotic dad will proudly hum "God Bless the USA" as his daughter allows a former Wall*Mart shelf stacker with a badge to get his hands down her pants in the name of security and freedom.

Asking for such a broad and patently unjustified ability to snoop has no place in a modern democracy. Ship them out to an embassy near to a country such as North Korea or Iran - in the hope that they'll defect to a place where their Orwellian urges can be sated.

Re:This is how it begins (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486383)

How is Department of Homeland Security not the Stasi? Even the name doesn't even try to hide this fact.
Here in Europe we really crinch about "Homeland" because it sounds to close to "Fatherland". But we also crinch about the pledge of allentience, and saluting to your flag, becuase it feels to much like the hitler greeting.

Re:This is how it begins (1, Funny)

JockTroll (996521) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486585)

"Crinch" as much as you want. You made the nazikraut shit, you live with it. Your fathers and grandfathers didn't "crinch" that much when they were merrily goose-stepping and siegheiling all over the place.

Re:This is how it begins (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486589)

Well, it's already begun, but it's another interesting example of how the police state develops. In an established democracy it's kind of difficult to simply introduce something akin to the Stasi - that worries people.

The trick is to grant unreasonable powers to a group that doesn't appear to have much to do with the average citizen (such as ASIC), or instead give it to a group with what people see as a very specific remit to act only in certain areas (TSA). In the case of ASIC, why should the average guy in the street worry about those stock exchange guys having this power - it's not as if they'll be using to snoop on regular guys. With the TSA, turning airports in to constitution free zones, people are fine with that because they think it's only happening in airports, when in fact they're spilling out in to other aspects of transport. Get people used to presenting documents at airports, train stations and state borders, and before long you'll be able to stop them anywhere and do it. Same with intrusive physical searches. When stopped on a random road, the patriotic dad will proudly hum "God Bless the USA" as his daughter allows a former Wall*Mart shelf stacker with a badge to get his hands down her pants in the name of security and freedom.

Asking for such a broad and patently unjustified ability to snoop has no place in a modern democracy. Ship them out to an embassy near to a country such as North Korea or Iran - in the hope that they'll defect to a place where their Orwellian urges can be sated.

good and nice

Re:This is how it begins (5, Interesting)

digitalchinky (650880) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486591)

You presume there is some giuding intelligence overseeing these power grabs with a view to a long term outlook. Having spent a big part of my career working for a secret 3 letter Australian agency, the reality seems more like everyone (particularly mid level management) simply needing to show they've been productively adding value between reporting periods. The vision extends no further than this.

These all start out as imaginary problems, some can be monetized, others enable dot points on power point presentations with much self aggrandizement for those involved.

Re:This is how it begins (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486833)

It doesn't need a guiding intelligence. It's like corrosion: Nobody plans corrosion, but if you let things corrode at places where it apparently doesn't matter, the corrosion will slowly spread and finally find its way to a vital part.

Why stop there? (1)

FauxReal (653820) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486399)

They forgot to ask for all of your snail mail to be scanned and GPS tracking logs in case you have secret meetings in person so they can at least suggest a conspiracy depending on who you're with.

Nearly speechless (2)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486551)

That the descendants of a rather cruel attempt of the ultimate prison colony are slowly but surely allowing their own government re-imprison them is mind-boggling. Turns out the most dangerous animal in Austrailia is Ministerus Fascismus

The Grand Plan (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486593)

Their next grand initiative will be to eliminate all the SPAM so they can actually find something in the hulking mass of emails they'd collected.

"The issue of injustice has taken a backseat to apparently how many of our make population are unable to maintain an erection!"

profit! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486603)

let the (redundant) data creation wars begin ... and buy stocks in western digital, seagate, samsung etc.

Can anyone explain? (2)

Ricardo (43461) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486637)

Can anyone explain any advantage to these rules, other than "it makes the cops job easier".

And they casually talk about destroying our privacy (and by association related rights like freedom of expression) not to mention security.. .... just to make their jobs easier..

Imagine if every new road, even out in the desert had to have cameras and microphones, to record not just who drove on the road, but what they were talking about. All installed at the users expense.

And the authorities have complete access to it (without judicial intervention),
Yet somehow that data will remain secure?

Oh that's okay then! (1)

coofercat (719737) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486669)

Before, I was worried that the big, faceless government might be snooping on me, so I resisted the proposed laws and changes. However, now ASIC is asking, I can see that actually it's far more important and far less dangerous. I'll be supporting this move, as I'm sure will all my fellow non-Australians.

I'm really hoping that the likes of Fosters will ask for all pubs to log who drinks what beers, how often and with whom. I'm sure that'll be for an equally important reason, and so obviously supportable.

Woz (1)

xclr8r (658786) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486695)

I hope your watching. Not that we in the U.S. are any better but we do try to "look" we care about privacy. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/apples-wozniak-wants-to-become-australian/story-fn3dxiwe-1226481489824 [theaustralian.com.au]

"In the interview with the Financial Review, Wozniak said the national broadband network was one of the reasons he wants to become a citizen."

Mind if we make your email address bruce@me.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486769)

to keep it simple?

To be stored where? (2)

aglider (2435074) | about a year and a half ago | (#41486789)

Do they have an idea of the amount of data "to be stored"?
Politicians are all the same everywhere. They rule over things they don't understand.

Re:To be stored where? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41487953)

Unfortunately this time you're wrong. See .e.g http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/Fahrplan/attachments/2014_DE-Strategic-Interception-Calc-DE-2010.pdf [events.ccc.de]

It's a lot of data all right. But perfectly doable.

Here's the blurb http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/Fahrplan/attachments/2014_DE-Strategic-Interception-Calc-DE-2010.pdf [events.ccc.de]

And here you can go rummage for the video http://28c3.fem-net.de/ [fem-net.de]

Re:To be stored where? (1)

aglider (2435074) | about a year and a half ago | (#41490061)

OK, it's 15 PB [wikipedia.org] per year which is doable for storage of raw audio data.
Then you need the mandatory meta-data the intelligence will need, like phone numbers, equipment ID (IMEI), cell ID, times and dates ...
How do you think those petabytes will be searched?
Doing a backup or two will bring some more hassle.

Yes, you are right. It's doable. Defintely stupid, but doable.

wgn4a (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41486991)

committerbase and own agenda - give may disturb 0the8 Let's keep to

Interesting implications... (1)

sinij (911942) | about a year and a half ago | (#41487173)

If you send death threats to yourself, and your email gets intercepted and flagged, can you get charged?

This wasn't the first plan (3, Funny)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | about a year and a half ago | (#41487693)

They went through quite a few alternative solutions.

1) Ask criminals to copy ASIC on all emails and Facebook messages sent. It's about as effective as what they proposed, and will be way cheaper and less intrusive for the public.

2) Have the Internet burn a daily DVD of the entire contents, which will then be sent to ASIC to be stored in boxes. Estimated physical storage space required for first 3 months: New Zealand.

3) Have vagina-cams installed in all female residents of Australia in case they happen to be naked at the home of someone considering fraud, and positioned in such a way that the camera catches the content of the suspect's screen.

4) Require that all Internet communication stop at the ISP level, who will then print it and send it on to the ISP of the person to whom it's address, with a copy being posted to ASIC.

5) Crime is committed only by the living. Kill everyone.

6) Receive funding to have ASIC agents stationed in every home, to sit behind computer users. Agent will periodically tap the user on the shoulder, and ask "Whatcha doin'?"

Number 4 was the preferred option. Greg Tanzer prefers reading personal emails on his tablet while relaxing in a hotel room full of semi-naked pre-teen girls. Having to carry around print-outs was out of the question.

Just what is the problem the few have with ... (1)

3seas (184403) | about a year and a half ago | (#41489753)

... the many? Are they becoming that skerd of those they are supposed to represent? If so then why, unless they are lying their asses off to the people they are supposed to represent and fear retaliation by the people if or when found out.

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