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Notch Won't Certify Minecraft For Windows 8

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the taking-a-stand dept.

Windows 303

MojoKid writes "The backlash against Windows 8 from various developers continues, but this time a game's creator isn't just expressing discontent. Notch, the developer behind smash hit Minecraft, has declared that he won't be working with Microsoft to certify Minecraft for Windows 8. Note that this doesn't mean Minecraft won't run on Windows 8. The certification process in question is Microsoft's mandatory rules for submitting content to the Windows game store. In order to be listed there, an application must be Metro-compatible and conform to a laundry list of other conditions. The real problem with Windows 8 is that it locks ARM users into a second class experience. If you buy an x86 tablet, you can download programs from SourceForge, GitHub, or any file mirror. If you're an ARM user, you can download programs from the Microsoft store and that's it. The bifurcated permission structure is the problem, and it makes WinRT tablets categorically impossible to recommend for anyone who values the ability to install whatever software they please."

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Well... (4, Interesting)

p0p0 (1841106) | about 2 years ago | (#41498053)

Windows being Windows, I don't forsee any real future issues with getting your own apps on the ARM version. Just the nature of Windows will probably make it much easier to work around, and if the userbase grows enough it will move along that much faster. Microsoft is trying the walled garden technique the Apple has going, but I don't foresee it being as effective or foolproof as Apple's.

Sometimes I feel like Microsoft si kind of flopping around like a fish on land when it comes to tablets. Even though they technically had a headstart, they've only just started their move to tablets and it feels rushed. The current release cycle of good > bad > good > bad will most likely continue and Windows 8 will flop. At least I hope it does and it will force them to rethink their stupid Start menu removal, amongst other things.

Re:Well... (2)

ravenknight (1844930) | about 2 years ago | (#41498097)

At least I hope it does and it will force them to rethink their stupid Start menu removal, amongst other things.

Yes, I agree that It's a bit pissy of microsoft to drop the friggin start menu after all these years without any kind of transition period -- or with anything that has an ounce of useability in it.

There is a 3rd party program that adds the start menu back to the taskbar, http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ [stardock.com]

Just a happy user (note: it's a tad buggy when it comes to opening files from jump lists, but I hear that might be fixed internally).

You would think (4, Informative)

wbr1 (2538558) | about 2 years ago | (#41498069)

That Ballmer would understand that a large portion of windows past success was due in part to the fact that software for the system was available anywhere. Now upon porting to a new platform, he wants to emulate apples walled garden, which only worked because of vendor lock in and the desirbility of the device. It won't work. Android is proving that an open market gains more market share. With at least 3 other options (iOS, Android, and regular windows), users will likely stick with those platforms unless tricked or forced, and MS doesnt have the power in the mobile market to force.
So now there are at least 2 aspects of Win8 that should fail, the interface, and the locked down ARM version
Disclaimer: Sent from android phone.

Re:You would think (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498157)

I'm an indie game developer. I'll compile and test on Win XP, Vista, Win7 (besides Mac, Linux & Android -- hell, I've got an experimental BSD branch), but I am boycotting Windows 8, including the x86 version expressly because of the ARM version.

I'd rather only release on Android and other Linux boxen (and go back to construction laborer part time) than encourage anyone, especially MS, that a locked down operating system is OK. (Note: iOS isn't up there -- It's dead to me)

Re:You would think (4, Insightful)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about 2 years ago | (#41498353)

This, 100 times this.
Regardles of what gui you perfer or if you think Linux is a pile of crap or amazing, the main reason to use windows is because it has all the software and an OS is primarilly just a tool to run software.

Re:You would think (1)

home-electro.com (1284676) | about 2 years ago | (#41498355)

My thoughts precisely. They see app store as a new revenue stream, and they want to use it.

Re:You would think (2)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 2 years ago | (#41498597)

Yes, Microsoft seems to forget that they absolutely destroyed Apple in the 90s... and that's because of the features Windows shared with Linux, not the features it shared with Apple. They are going in the exact wrong direction and will lose out big time. It's funny that it seems like the entire world knows what Microsoft should do, and yet Microsoft seems hell bent on not doing it.

Re:You would think (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about 2 years ago | (#41498645)

That Ballmer would understand that a large portion of windows past success was due in part to the fact that software for the system was available anywhere.

Agreed. I think there is room for someone to make money on the low-end (Walmart) as well as on the high-end (Tiffany). Just because Walmart's gross margins are low doesn't make them a bad investment.

Android is proving that an open market gains more market share

Android is a huge impediment for MS. MS can't charge for an OS and remain competitive with Android, which is free. This screws up their Windows model. I think they are fishing around for another model. Apple, at this point, still makes bucketloads of money on actual hardware - the walled garden money was almost an accident. MS looks like they are trying both approaches... trying to out-Apple Apple. They did this successfully in the 90s and they have good revenue and cash, so I won't dismiss them out of hand... but the conditions are very different now.

In the 80s and 90s, PC manufacturers were actually paying money for an OS or spending a ton on in-house R&D of their own OS. There was no competitive free option. Now you can pick up an Android tablet for under $100 - there is quite literally no room for licensing fees, and the open source nature of Android lets companies who want some control (e.g. Amazon, B&N) cost-effectively modify it rather than pay MS to modify Windows.

I'm glad I'm not in charge :) If I were I'd probably create a tablet/phone spinoff that re-uses Windows technology, similar to the way Apple re-used OSX for the iPhone. But the application environment would be completely different, and no attempt would be made at merging the two. The spinoff wouldn't try to emulate Apple's model, but instead I would team up with B&N, Walmart, K-Mart, Sears or some other giant retailer where I could piggyback on their retail presence and try to make money on content sales and ads. The margins wouldn't even approach Windows desktop, but that's why I'd spin it off to protect the margins on MSFT proper, and it would compete seriously with Android. It would also be important to separate the low-margin business culture from the swimming-in-cash mentality at the rest of the company.

Transformer Infinity looks better and better (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498073)

So, the Transformer Infinity (Quad core, 1920x1200 screen, dock with keyboard, SD card reader, USB ports etc.) has Android and is an open general purpose computer with access to a million apps.
And Windows RT, can't run squat, has a smaller screen, bigger price, AND ISN'T EVEN OPEN?

Seriously, at some point you just gotta sack Ballmer. I know he'll point to his success in raising prices on stuff he didn't create, but bo-bo the monkey manager could do that. Ballmer's an idiot! If the Windows 8 tablet isn't good enough, then they should focus on making that better, why introduce a Window RT to fuzzy the picture and split development effort. Nobodies going to write for that tablet because it won't sell.
It'll drag Windows 8 tablets down with it.

Re:Transformer Infinity looks better and better (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498091)

You know what looks even better? Anything other than a fucking tablet.

Re:Transformer Infinity looks better and better (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about 2 years ago | (#41498281)

I love my tablet but it doesn't replace my computer, it augments it.

Re:Transformer Infinity looks better and better (2)

fast turtle (1118037) | about 2 years ago | (#41498499)

Blanket Fail statememt. I have a desktop but am looking at getting a tablet to replace a notebook due to changes in usage. Simply put, I'm spending more and more time in god damn waiting rooms w/o tables or desks and the laptop just isn't as useful anymore while a tablet offers enough functionality to be useable while being smaller. In fact, based on the damn changes in usage, I may even be able to use the tablet to replace most of my desktop functionality while converting it to a home server. It's still useful but...

Re:Transformer Infinity looks better and better (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498095)

Keep Ballmer. He makes software news funny.

Re:Transformer Infinity looks better and better (3, Interesting)

ZosX (517789) | about 2 years ago | (#41498195)

I have the Transformer Tablet with keyboard and, while yes it is very, very useful it really still isn't a general purpose computing device. You can run linux on it in a chroot, but that only gives you X over VNC. Its possible to evetually dual boot it since it boots linux already anyways. People have been doing this one the prime. In that context it is actually fairly impressive and had 3d acceleration...though I don't think sound works yet. From the videos I've seen it performs much like a netbook running linux. Like a 2nd generation netbook. Most of the apps for android are optimized for phones, so that is a downside. There aren't a huge number of productivity apps for android on tablets. There are some nice apps though. Honestly I use this more than my notebook now. The screen has the same resolution roughly and is smaller so it looks better. For internet communication and web browsing this thing is pretty awesome. Also I am photographer and I can just plug in an external usb powered mini drive and dump my sd cards straight to the drive pretty quickly. Ghost commander works well as a file manager too. I have the bootloader unlocked and I'm running the hydro jellybean rom atm. Its still a little buggy and the i/o is awful right now, but its still a very fast and usable tablet. Some of the games rock too.

Re:Transformer Infinity looks better and better (1)

Type44Q (1233630) | about 2 years ago | (#41498347)

Ballmer's an idiot!

*dons tinfoil hat* It'd be great for the future of Linux (and possibly even the future of the human race) in things are as simple as they appear to be on the surface. My concern is that this business of Microsoft - and, to a lesser degree, Intel - seeming to shoot themselves in the foot with this nonsense is that it runs a lot deeper and has a lot more to do with making inroads against general-purpose computing than most of us suspect.

Shut up Notch (-1, Troll)

MogNuts (97512) | about 2 years ago | (#41498081)

Shut up Notch. Seriously. Just shut up.

Notch is simply very skilled at being able troll the internet and being an attention whore. You all think he is the fabled developer of Minecraft. No, he's just the world's best indie PR person.

He needs to desperately draw attention to himself via the game press who eats it up to maintain relevant so he can milk more out of the one game he's ever made, if at all (didn't someone else do all the main stuff of the game?).

I just laugh, because remember that tweet he made about not being as open because people will mis-read. So it's ok if it generates more press towards your $30 *indie* game, but not good if it negatively affects your name and brand.

So I re-iterate, just shut up notch.

Re:Shut up Notch (-1, Troll)

MogNuts (97512) | about 2 years ago | (#41498103)

Forgot to mention to that it's probably all about greed. I suspect this is really about not wanting to lose a cut of his profits. Remember all those B.S. excuses about not wanting to deliver his game to Steam users? The service which is basically the anti-MS?

Yea. Profit.

Re:Shut up Notch (2, Insightful)

obarthelemy (160321) | about 2 years ago | (#41498207)

steam is far from being the anti MS. they both, like apple, want to lock their users into never really owning content, having to go though them to do anything with what they bought... Apple is wildly successful at it, Steam quite successfful, and MS not yet in the consumer space.

Re:Shut up Notch (2, Insightful)

bluescrn (2120492) | about 2 years ago | (#41498365)

This.

You can't complain about Apple or MS whilst being a Valve fanboy. Yes, the Steam user experience is great. The developer experience isn't so good (Loads of developers aren't allowed in. Greenlight was a bit of a clusterfuck. And if you get in, it'll cost you a large chunk of your revenue)

I really wish Valve would split up into two companies... the awesome company that makes amazing games, and the evil company that's just about managed to turn the PC into a closed platform when it comes to gaming. But their stroke of genius was keeping the 'awesome' attached to the 'evil', so no gamer could ever really dislike them!

Indeed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498223)

Forgot to mention to that it's probably all about greed.

That is a given. It's always about "greed"; whether it's for money, recognition, and anytime you "want". Everyone is greedy somehow. Even Buddhist monks who give up everything because they are greedy for enlightenment or Christian monks who are greedy for Jesus.

Anyway, whenever one uses "it's about greed", they sound like an eight year old on a playground.

Re:Shut up Notch (4, Insightful)

bluescrn (2120492) | about 2 years ago | (#41498343)

If you were earning millions and millions, would you want to give 30%+ away to MS or Valve, for very little beyond a billing system and content hosting?

Not really greed, just good business sense, IMHO.

Re:Shut up Notch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498577)

The summary also incorrectly states that your app has to be Metro in order to be listed in the store. This is just BS and wrong. Now, you have to be Metro in order to be purchased from the store. You can LIST Win32 apps just fine - but you can't sell them directly in the store. You basically get a link from the store back to your own site. But you can still be listed.

Re:Shut up Notch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498111)

you're a troll telling people to shut up, YOU SHUT UP tumbleweed.

Re:Shut up Notch (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498123)

Notch developed most of the game by himself in the beginning. Then when he started hiring people Jeb eventually took over development and Notch doesn't do any code for minecraft anymore. So yes, he did develop the main base game by himself, but anything that's happened in the past year(?) has been all Jeb and the other developers.

Also I'd say it's more the press taking his tweets and blowing them up rather than him being some kind of PR supergod, almost every single one of his tweets ends up on some news site somewhere, even the inane ones. What's he supposed to do about that, stop tweeting altogether?

Not to mention he's just saying what we're all thinking. ;)

Re:Shut up Notch (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498215)

So yes, he did develop the main base game by himself

INFINIMINER EXISTED
Just thought you should know that... Educate yourself. That's all I have to say to you.

Re:Shut up Notch (3, Insightful)

rubycodez (864176) | about 2 years ago | (#41498289)

what's your point? no secret that the failed game Infiniminer (discontinued commercially after one month in marketplace) inspired Notch to write MINECRAFT. So Notch made the winning sandbox game, and you bring up a loser. so what?

Re:Shut up Notch (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498421)

Infiniminer is the winer in my book. No amount of money changes the fact that Minecraft is not open source. Infiniminer is. Know why Infiniminer was discontinued? It's sources were leaked and then it was open sourced. Minecraft came to be VERY quickly (merely a few weeks) after infiniminer sources were leaked... Believe what you will, there were open source Java clients for Infiniminer right around the time Minecraft sprang up. Sure the proprietary Minecraft occupies a lot of mindshare comparatively, but I don't give a fuck, I use GNU/Linux not MS/Windows -- Guess which OS I think "wins"?

Re:Shut up Notch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498537)

Cool story. Cooler editing.

Re:Shut up Notch (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498339)

The code for Minecraft is not based on the code for Infiniminer. They are two different code bases. Notch wrote Minecraft from scratch. He was influenced by ideas from Infinimner and other games. Infiniminer has different gameplay than Minecraft. Minecraft is not an Infinminer clone anymore than Galaga is a Space Invaders clone.

Re:Shut up Notch (1)

F.Ultra (1673484) | about 2 years ago | (#41498361)

So members of the Apple lawyers team has found there way here.

Re:Shut up Notch (5, Insightful)

ClaraBow (212734) | about 2 years ago | (#41498155)

Regardless of the fact that he may be whoring for attention, he does make a valid point. How are you going to explain to consumers that Windows RT and Windows x86 aren't' the same when they are being marketed under the same brand? It's going to be very confusing.

Re:Shut up Notch (1)

csumpi (2258986) | about 2 years ago | (#41498203)

The same way you explain the difference between iOS and OSX.

And, you will have 30 days to return your tablet if you don't like it.

And, if winRT starts selling, there will be a Minecraft port on it within 72 hours (remember it's on every game console, iOS device, which have the same requirements). So the OP is actually making a good point here.

Re:Shut up Notch (2)

ClaraBow (212734) | about 2 years ago | (#41498263)

iOS and OSX look very different and run on different devices, whereas, Windows RT and Windows x86 look exactly the same and will run on identical hardware. Also, there isn't an OSX tablet to compete with an iOS tablet.

Re:Shut up Notch (1)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | about 2 years ago | (#41498445)

iOS and OSX look very different and run on different devices, whereas, Windows RT and Windows x86 look exactly the same and will run on identical hardware.

Since when is ARM and x86 "identical hardware"? Since, you know, WinRT is only for ARM tablets.

Re:Shut up Notch (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498585)

...and if you're Joe Q. Public who doesn't know what that means when they're looking at the price tag at Best Buy?

YOU know, and I know, but there's a good chance that even otherwise well-informed nerds won't know or recall when they're shopping around. It happens.

Re:Shut up Notch (1)

csumpi (2258986) | about 2 years ago | (#41498567)

I've recently upgraded to mountain lion, and was surprised how much OSX is starting to look like iOS. From the launcher, to mouse wheel scroll direction, scrollbars, mail or the fact that by default you are not allowed to install programs that don't come from the app store (I know, you can change much of this, I've spent a day customizing myself).

But all that aside, MS wants Windows on ARM.It's not possible to run executables compiled for x86 or x64 on ARM. So there has to be a separation, with Apple you also have the mac and ios app stores.

WinRT and Win8 will probably satisfy needs of different user groups. But the fact that they look and work the same might be a benefit. And what could have MS done to make a better distinction? Come up with a whole new name? Like Windows 8 vs Doors 8?

Re:Shut up Notch (1)

obarthelemy (160321) | about 2 years ago | (#41498217)

you explain to them that RT != x86. It's in the name, so the bran dis not "the same"(sic).

Re:Shut up Notch (1)

dissy (172727) | about 2 years ago | (#41498335)

Please do not encourage the troll by calling his lies "facts" ;}

He claims Notch did not create Minecraft, yet Notch has live updated Minecraft while coding on it with a crowd of thousands around him at a convention held in his games name...

He continues with a claim that someone else wrote most of the code, when in fact Notch wrote most of the code and only recently handed it off for updates to another person, very very recently.

While technically speaking, lies are indeed facts, at least call it "false facts" as they are supposed to be called :P

Re:Shut up Notch (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498177)

Agreed. Notch didn't invent Minecraft -- He stole most of it from Infiniminer. [youtube.com] The guy is a grade A asshole.

All those "minecraft clones" are really infiniminer clones, because that's what Minecraft is.

Re:Shut up Notch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498219)

Why did you feel the need to put *indie*?
You do realise the game is indie, right? Stop being a moron who thinks Indie is a genre.

But yes, I agree with everything else.
The game only became popular because of rumor and speculation. Before that, it was limited to a few no-name people on Youtube, 4chan and a few other small communities.
It was only until Jeb and the others took over that things actually started to get anywhere.
It stagnated like hell before between the periods when it wasn't really known until they came on board. (aka, the "greedy jew" thing that a lot of communities mention when attacking Notch)
There is no doubt the game did lag behind considerably when that moment happened, but a lot of work was getting an actual business up and running as well as hiring people, finding an office, legal, etc.
Was he lazy with Minecraft? Probably for a little bit, but not much since he was giving development over to Jeb. He probably spent a bit of time tidying things up and making sure there wasn't stuff only the Mind Of Notch understood. (like why he was returning 1 for a random function...)

In particular the whole Unlimited Detail hilarity got me. Funny how he never replied again after they uploaded the engine show-off with HardOCP and a couple others. (and had to latch on to Carmacks words by twisting them in to something they weren't)
Ever since he got success he thinks he is some sort of diva of a coder.
But to call him a troll is rather incorrect. He actually does have a product. Most trolls actually don't have anything behind them.

Re:Shut up Notch (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 2 years ago | (#41498221)

You could have been just a notch friendlier, you know.

Re:Shut up Notch (2, Interesting)

_xeno_ (155264) | about 2 years ago | (#41498235)

That and I highly doubt this has anything to do with problems with the Windows 8 platform and much more to do with the fact that Minecraft is written in Java, and therefore would have to be ported to "something else" in order to meet the game store requirements.

Of course, astute Minecraft fans would know that the game already has been ported to "something else" multiple times in order to make the Xbox 360 and iOS releases. So presumably, if Notch didn't want to be an ass, he could just make the Xbox 360 version the "official" version and port that back to Windows and - presto, he'd have a Windows 8 game store capable version, right there.

But that would involve not being a drama whore. And would probably improve the game experience by not requiring his users to install a giant security hole just to play the game.

Probably not (XNA vs RT) (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498279)

Most devs use XNA for xbox development, but XNA is not supported on the RT variant. Now you know.

Re:Shut up Notch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498607)

The XBox version does not support any of the existing mods that people use. It would be a vastly inferior game at that point and everyone would hate Notch for dumping Java.

Re:Shut up Notch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498611)

Of course, astute Minecraft fans would know that the game already has been ported to "something else" multiple times in order to make the Xbox 360 and iOS releases. So presumably, if Notch didn't want to be an ass, he could just make the Xbox 360 version the "official" version and port that back to Windows and - presto, he'd have a Windows 8 game store capable version, right there.

4J Studios developed the Xbox port, not Mojang. I would assume, like for many ports, that 4J Studios retains control over their code they've written. It is even possible that Mojang does not have access to it.

Re:Shut up Notch (2)

Purity Of Essence (1007601) | about 2 years ago | (#41498237)

Notch has made at least 17 games in addition to Minecraft.

Funny Farm, Luxor, Carnival Shootout, MEG4kMAN, Left 4k Dead, t4kns, Miners4k, Hunters4k, Dungeon4k, Sonic Racer 4k, Dachon4k, l4krits, Blast Passage, Bunny Press, Breaking the Tower, Infinite Mario Bros, Minicraft.

Re:Shut up Notch (4, Insightful)

arkhan_jg (618674) | about 2 years ago | (#41498243)

Not to mention that he quite happily did minecraft pocket edition for the ipad, an ARM ecosystem that is just as restrictive as the Microsoft app store on windows RT.

No hypocrisy there, no siree.

Consumers went 'ohhh, walled garden, totally restricted to one vendor, apple decides what apps I'm allowed to install, awesome' and bought the things by the utter truckload.

The most common complaint about android is that Google doesn't exercise ENOUGH control over the OEMs to prevent fragmentation

Is it any surprise that Microsoft went 'seriously? A walled garden where we get to cream a big slice of profit on every bit of software is what customers want? Alrighty then!'

Re:Shut up Notch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498269)

So if you give a little you have to give up the whole lot no matter how bad it seems to be getting?

He's griping about Windows 8 (5, Insightful)

gravyface (592485) | about 2 years ago | (#41498341)

... and the impending death of Windows/PC as an open, general-computing platform by the hands of Microsoft. He didn't mention tablets once in his tweets.

Re:He's griping about Windows 8 (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 2 years ago | (#41498423)

Also, having a carefully curated software does not mean that needs to be your only source of software. Google needs to exercise more control over their store, but not do like Apple, and now Microsoft are doing, and use it as an excuse to lock your users out of their own device. These OS suppliers should enforce whatever rules they want on their own software repositories, be let people choose and install software from wherever they like.

Re:Shut up Notch (1)

F.Ultra (1673484) | about 2 years ago | (#41498455)

Have you actually read what Notch wrote:

Got an email from microsoft, wanting to help "certify" minecraft for win 8. I told them to stop trying to ruin the pc as an open platform.

Re:Shut up Notch (2)

gallondr00nk (868673) | about 2 years ago | (#41498527)

Not to mention that he quite happily did minecraft pocket edition for the ipad, an ARM ecosystem that is just as restrictive as the Microsoft app store on windows RT.

No hypocrisy there, no siree.

That's because of money. No such thing as hypocrisy as long as money is involved!

Its cheap grandstanding and nothing more. MC will work fine on x86 Win8 without certification, and lets be honest, RT is probably going to bomb badly.

Quite the example of an empty gesture.

Re:Shut up Notch (3, Insightful)

epiphani (254981) | about 2 years ago | (#41498247)

Seriously? He made two comments on twitter, of which he's an active user, and the media picked it up. I don't quite see how that's trolling for attention.

You, on the other hand, seem to be doing quite well at it.

Re:Shut up Notch (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498309)

Wow. You literally just claimed both that Notch did not create Minecraft, and that Windows RT on ARM will not be locked down to the Microsoft store!

Care to prove either of those claims? Even just a teeny bit?

And whoever modded your lies as insightful should be ashamed.

Re:Shut up Notch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498313)

Insightful? Really? Who exactly is the greedy one here? It seems to me that forcing people to go through the MS Store would be a bit more greedy than a developer wanting to sell his program on his own terms and not have to pay someone else for what exactly? And who cares if it even is the first game he's ever made... it's still a very popular game. I didn't realize one of the requirements for being a relevant game developer is that you have to develop lots of games.

jealous? (1)

rubycodez (864176) | about 2 years ago | (#41498323)

Jealous of success? Notch did originally write Minecraft, yes it was inspired by at least two other similar games that didn't take off commercially. Notch's company Mojang pulls in $80M USD a year in revenue. Of course he's good at development, marketing, selling, PR.

Re:Shut up Notch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498367)

Ah, the cantankerous bitching old loser who never managed to succeed in anything, including moving out of his mum and dad's basement, and his suck-puppet brigade. Why don't you just shove those accounts up your ass and follow your own advice, you piece of failure?

Re:Shut up Notch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498591)

Minecraft requires Java. So bonus, this silliness keeps Win8 more security ...

certification = protection racket (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498083)

nice software you have, shame if something was to happen to it (like scary warning dialogs)

how anti-trust regulators are not all over this is a mystery

Re:certification = protection racket (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | about 2 years ago | (#41498233)

IANAL, but I think antitrust requires that you both (a) have a monopoly, and (b) use tying to extend your monopoly into new areas.

My guess is that because MS doesn't have a monopoly on the tablet market in general, extending their control over the OS into control over app distribution, on their platform only, isn't antitrust.

Re:certification = protection racket (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 2 years ago | (#41498435)

Microsoft are locking anything under their 'Metro' interface to their software store for *all* platforms, as I understand it. It is absolutely abusing their monopoly. Apple has made it acceptable enough that it won't be questioned for a while.

Re:certification = protection racket (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498307)

How the fuck does shit like this get modded up? I guess you put "anti-trust" in a post about MS on Slashdot and it's an auto up mod? Huh?

The anti-trust regulators aren't going to force MS to do something to run a poorly written indie game. That's why they're not all over this. Get your head out of your ass.

How is this different than any other tablet? (2, Insightful)

gravyface (592485) | about 2 years ago | (#41498121)

Apple has a walled garden. That's it. Android does too. Microsoft has a walled garden, but if you have an x86 tablet, you can plant petunias and begonias if you want in there. That seems like an improvement to me. And it's likely a technical reason too: all those Windows-native calls/hooks that your typical Windows-compatible applications require likely do not exist on the ARM version of Windows 8 (I'm not a Windows programmer/guru, so I'm speculating here, but seems likely no?).

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (5, Insightful)

Wattos (2268108) | about 2 years ago | (#41498189)

Please explain how Android has a walled garden? Last time I checked I can install applications without using google play/market

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (4, Informative)

gravyface (592485) | about 2 years ago | (#41498209)

Slashdot needs an edit feature. You're right. My bad. Had a different train of thought originally.

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (1)

obarthelemy (160321) | about 2 years ago | (#41498227)

If you keep the little box "install from other sources" unchecked, then Android has a walled garden. You get the choice of a walled garden or not, which is fine, most people shouldn't be allowed to DL random stuff. Too bad the walls are not that good, BTW ^^

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (1)

interval1066 (668936) | about 2 years ago | (#41498453)

You get the choice of a walled garden or not...

Walled Garden... heh heh heh. Giving Fido the man-slaughtering hell hound the abilty to doff his collar doesn't mean he's safely secured up either. A walled garden is not an "opt-in" feature. Install from other sources is just that, freedom.

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498239)

hey, last time i checked you can "sideload" in win8

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (2)

Blymie (231220) | about 2 years ago | (#41498255)

OK, that's it.

If you people want to win the PR war, stop using the enemy's PR terms!

It isn't a walled garden. NO WAY.

That implies something wonderful and pleasant and beautiful and...

Walled garden? Nope, it is a JAIL. Designed so you CAN NOT escape, and your free will is negated.

Stop using their PR terms!

(note: Wattos.. you just happened to be the dude I replied to. Nothing personal, everyone seems to be using the enemy's PR terms)

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498465)

Please explain how Windows 8 is a walled garden?

Last time I checked I can install desktop apps without going through Windows Store just like I always could with Windows 7, Vista, XP, 2000, NT 4...

You might have a point for Windows RT, but if Clover Trail delivers then who's going to use Windows 8 on ARM anyway?

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (4, Funny)

LordLucless (582312) | about 2 years ago | (#41498193)

Apple has a walled garden.

Yes.

Android does too.

No

Microsoft has a walled garden, but if you have an x86 tablet, you can plant petunias and begonias

WTF?

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498211)

Actually a lot of them do exist, you're just not allowed to use them. They ported the Windows Desktop over because Office still needs it.

Everybody else has to abide by the Metro only restriction, but Microsoft is special.

Really though, Notch isn't alone on this. Nobody will be making anything resembling serious games for the ARM version.

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | about 2 years ago | (#41498251)

"Apple has a walled garden.

Apple and Microsoft are not in competition, since Microsoft doesn't make computers. That being said, people bought the land knowing there was a wall around the garden, and in many cases because it has a wall around it. They trust the realtor.

"Android does too."

No, it doesn't. It has a gate with an option to keep the gate locked, or to open it.

Microsoft has a walled garden

What computer does Microsoft make, again? Why do they get to lock my hardware down, when they don't even make the hardware I bought? Also, nobody in their right mind trusts Microsoft. Furthermore, they are doing classic bait and switch. The ignorant user gets a new PC and likes Windows 8 (again, they are ignorant) so he shells out money for a tablet that M$ doesn't make and expects a similar experience. Ah ... ignorant user ... thanks for the cash, but you've been screwed again.

Re:How is this different than any other tablet? (0)

blind biker (1066130) | about 2 years ago | (#41498387)

Apple has a walled garden. That's it. Android does too.

Yeah, except for the little detail that Android doesn't.

Feel free to spout more lies.

At the end of the day... (3, Insightful)

gravyface (592485) | about 2 years ago | (#41498173)

Microsoft Windows native/legacy applications -- a massive massive software ecosystem unparalleled by any other OS/platform (besides the Web perhaps?) -- is the reason why they can never turn their backs on it. Its the key to their power, but with power comes a great responsibilit^H^H^H burden.

They will try, but at the end of the day, the Microsoft walled garden will always have the gate left open.

WinRT is dead in the water (4, Insightful)

KiloByte (825081) | about 2 years ago | (#41498179)

I'd say Microsoft shot itself in the foot here, not by enacting the walled garden (which is bad), but by not releasing a compat layer to run WinRT executables on earlier versions of i386/amd64 Windows.

No one is really going to port stuff just for porting sake, and the API is quite different, with no obvious upsides. As for users, there are three groups:
* Windows Phone 8: laughed at, and without software it's a chicken-and-egg problem
* Windows 8 for business: no sane business is going to migrate for 5 or so years
* Windows 8 for home users: they don't upgrade for the (non-existing) coolness factor but by getting Windows with replacement hardware

Thus, the only real way to get actual users for WinRT software in the short term would be making it possible to run it on Windows 7 (and if they really cared, even XP). With no users, there will be no serious developers.

Re:WinRT is dead in the water (3, Insightful)

obarthelemy (160321) | about 2 years ago | (#41498241)

"the API is quite different, with no obvious upsides". Or not:

obvious upsides to dropping some backward compatibility:
- less OS bloat
- faster OS
- more battery life
- fewer security holes
- no significant loss of features aside from backward compatibility itself

Re:WinRT is dead in the water (1)

KiloByte (825081) | about 2 years ago | (#41498433)

I mean upsides for the developer. A less bloated OS is easier to maintain and might be milder on the battery, but doesn't make writing software for it any easier.

Re:WinRT is dead in the water (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498449)

And WHY in the name of $ANYTHING would anyone chose by their own will to use a version of Windows that doesn't look like, act like or, above all, does not run the same applications as the old versions?

Why would anyone throw themselves into the arms of a company with multiple convictions for market abuse when there's neither the need nor any benefits in doing it? BTW, no, "Microsoft" being printed on the packaging doesn't count as any of that.

The preposition is ridiculous. None of the items you listed are unobtainable with any other of the alternatives in the market, nor are they even proven to exist even in Windows RT in the first place...

The only thing Microsoft has going for it is inertia, and they know it. WinRT is a sideshow, an attempt at looking like they're doing "something", but reality it's just a hobbled half-measure. It'll never account for anything.

Re:WinRT is dead in the water (5, Informative)

bertok (226922) | about 2 years ago | (#41498623)

no significant loss of features aside from backward compatibility itself

That's a common misconception perpetuated by clever marketing, but it's flat out wrong.

Metro/WinRT is not Win32 modernized, instead it is Silverlight 6 Tablet Edition.

It's severely sandboxed, even more in some ways than Silverlight 5 was, which means that really important things that a lot of common applications require just Don't Work At All, and can't be made to work unless Microsoft relents and releases Windows 9 with a newer, more permissive API.

To give you an idea of just how restricted Metro/WinRT apps are, they're prevented from communicating with Desktop apps and traditional local services. That means that there's no shared memory, no named pipes, no Windows event passing, not even "localhost" sockets! Really major things can't be done, like runtime code generation (JIT), which directly impacts applications like Firefox and Chrome. Statically compiling Java code may work for some apps, but not if dynamic class loading is required.

Put yourself in the shoes of an Enterprise developer: Message Queues? Missing. LDAP? Nope. Background services? Blocked. Oracle client? Hah! Local database? Can't connect. Group Policy? Unavailable. PowerShell Integration? Desktop only.

Try this from a games developer's perspective: OpenCL? No JIT. PhysX? Can't talk to the driver. OpenGL? Over Ballmer's dead body.

Nice troll. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498191)

OH MS IS SOOO EVVVIL. Give it a rest. Seriously.

Apple mobile devices need special attention to give the elite users the ability to do what they want with it.
Android devices need special attention to give elite users the ability to do what they want with it.

MS is going the route of "If you're the type of person that shouldn't run with scissors then buy our locked down tablet" then great. I'm sure the ARM device will be shattered or whatever the people that create the exploit call it just like the others.

MS is just trying to be Apple.

Why is there an official Minecraft for iOS? (3, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | about 2 years ago | (#41498199)

If he isn't just trolling about Windows, and instead does want to make a point about the "value of being able to install your own software", why is there an official Minecraft client for iOS?

Did he suddenly grow a pair because it's Microsoft?

Or is he just more likely to take a stand using a platform which isn't likely to lose him any money if he stays away from it because of his views?

I'm going to go with the last one...

Re:Why is there an official Minecraft for iOS? (1)

_xeno_ (155264) | about 2 years ago | (#41498259)

If he isn't just trolling about Windows, and instead does want to make a point about the "value of being able to install your own software", why is there an official Minecraft client for iOS?

Hell, there's also a version for Xbox 360.

Clearly, Notch has no problems releasing Minecraft on a Microsoft platform that restricts your ability to freely release software.

Re:Why is there an official Minecraft for iOS? (1)

robmv (855035) | about 2 years ago | (#41498417)

Both iOS and XBox are locked down from their inception. Notch is "boycotting" Windows 8 certification (Metro apps or whatever is called now and store") because it wasn't a locked down platform and is becoming one, don't know but Windows probably is his main platform and he don't want it to become like iOS

Re:Why is there an official Minecraft for iOS? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498301)

How about picking your battles. There's no way he'd contribute anything towards making Android or iOS more open, so why not make a (very small, comparatively) contribution towards trying to hurt Microsoft for their decision to follow suit -- while they still don't have as hug an amount vested in the idea as Google/Apple-- and hopefully convince them to let people own their tablets (better for everyone in the long run, esp. in the best case scenario where Microsoft do wind up opening up _and_ sell more as a result).

Re:Why is there an official Minecraft for iOS? (4, Informative)

SilenceBE (1439827) | about 2 years ago | (#41498357)

The only way to distribute Metro apps (x86 or ARM) is via the Windows store. "Side loading" (with is just a funky name for installing Metro apps outside the windows store) is only available for Windows enterprise and server editions. See http://richfrombechtle.wordpress.com/tag/windows-8-sideloading/ [wordpress.com] or google for "sideloading windows 8"

I don't know you guys that are talking about tablets got the memo that Windows 8 also (unfortunately) runs on the desktop.

This is a path that goes a lot further then Apple as I'm still able to install software freely on my Apple desktop. With Windows also, but not the new Metro apps they are trying to push or I should run the enterprise version.

Probably some of that (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 2 years ago | (#41498481)

It is easy to be a "fighter" where little is on the line. I find it rather unlikely Windows 8 tablets will succeed so there's no harm in him snubbing them. That aside, if they do, he can always just release Minecraft for them. It isn't like MS is going to ban him, they don't give a shit.

I also think it is just generally jumping on the "Hate MS" cause of the day. Hating on MS for the Windows Store is real popular right now with geek types. So he's just jumping on that, probably without doing much research on it.

I do find it funny all the hate on it since it really is no different than many other stores out there. I'd be worried about it (and hating on it) if it were the only way to get programs in Windows 8 but given that they still not only install as normal, but the Windows Store isn't even used for non-metro programs (which would be like every Windows program out there right now) I just don't care. I can't imagine I'll ever buy anything from it, it just won't affect how I do things.

So my guess is it is party greed (as another poster noted Minecraft is on the 360 which is totally locked down too) and partly just joining the hate train.

Do two tweets define a straight line? (3, Insightful)

itsdapead (734413) | about 2 years ago | (#41498523)

If he isn't just trolling about Windows, and instead does want to make a point about the "value of being able to install your own software", why is there an official Minecraft client for iOS?

That did occur to me - but bear in mind that TFA consists of two tweets from Notch followed by an awful lot of extrapolation by HotHardware.com. His tweets don't mention ARM at all, just not wanting Microsoft to 'ruin the PC as an open platform'.

I think the problem occures if you see devices like tablets, phones and consoles as 'media consumption' appliances rather than general purpose computers. It's no big deal if they are closed systems (consoles have been that way for years).

The forthcoming ARM-based Windows machines may well be marketed as general purpose laptops and SFF computers.

Unheard of (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498229)

Imagine if Apple only allows you to install software from their store on the iPad !

The guy is a rock star now ! (1, Flamebait)

obarthelemy (160321) | about 2 years ago | (#41498261)

And like all rock stars, it's "issue of the day" bandwagon for him. Where was he when MCraft got certified for Apple's AppStore ?

Patent Infringement (4, Funny)

amiga3D (567632) | about 2 years ago | (#41498265)

Hey, I thought Apple held the patent on locking users into an app store? They should sue MicroSoft for patent infringement.

Well, there you go. (1)

Type44Q (1233630) | about 2 years ago | (#41498285)

The bifurcated permission structure is the problem, and it makes WinRT tablets categorically impossible to recommend for anyone who values the ability to install whatever software they please."

Hence the reason for the very existence of this smoldering pile of dung known as an "operating system." Active-denial system would be more like it...

Minecraft is executed by Java's JVM (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498331)

So shouldn't it be the JVM that is certified for the platform? Minecraft doesn't make any platform dependant system calls directly as far as I'm aware. The part that is LWJGL may be an exception, but Mojang didn't write that.

Another open platform will evolve then. (2)

fireballrus (1000626) | about 2 years ago | (#41498403)

Another reason why this is a good news for ReactOS.

Why does Win8 get WinRT's hate? (1)

poisonborz (2676611) | about 2 years ago | (#41498411)

As far as I understand, Win8 has no less freedom for apps/games than Android. You either ship your standalone pack (installer/.apk), or use Market/GPlay (and thereby accept a list of rules). I rarely see articles like this that state that censorship/certification issues are only affecting WinRT (and even in that case, everything is parallel to iOS - so what's new, really?). Aside from phones/tablets, why do developers carve so hard for the built-in AppStore? There is Steam, and possible future solutions, like - who knows - maybe a Cydia-like free store platform for Win8.

So what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498425)

Microsoft now have two platforms, i386 that is free to tinker with and ARM that is tightly controlled, just like iOS is. What's the problem? It makes perfect sense given the limitations of mobile hardware when compared to dektop hardware. You can't reasonably expect to run the Symantec Security suite on WinRT, do you? Get used to it or choose i386 and be happy.

AND? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498525)

Last time I installed minecraft, I went to minecraft.net and installed it. I'm just going to continue doing so? Where's the news? Some random guy doesn't want to use a new feature, aaaaaand?

The real problem? (1)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | about 2 years ago | (#41498561)

The real problem with Windows 8 is that it locks ARM users into a second class experience. If you buy an x86 tablet, you can download programs from SourceForge, GitHub, or any file mirror. If you're an ARM user, you can download programs from the Microsoft store and that's it.

If that's the real problem with windows 8 then it's really not a problem at all, is it? Competing operating systems on mobile (android, ios) are also locked down to a single source out of the box unless you make changes to the OS.

There are a LOT of problems with win8, but this isn't a biggie.

No (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41498625)

No, he won't certify it for the metro store, big deal. It's coded in java(horribly), so it'll run just fine on anything that has a JVM, which win 8 does. So just install like normal?

like others.... (1)

SuperDre (982372) | about 2 years ago | (#41498637)

[quote]The bifurcated permission structure is the problem, and it makes WinRT tablets categorically impossible to recommend for anyone who values the ability to install whatever software they please.[/quote] So Apple is allowed to block any manual installation, but MS isn't? Windows 8 = MacOSX, WindowsRT = iOS..

Doesn't mean I agree with being locked down, but I also hate that part of Apple.. Also let's not forget, also on Windows 8 metrostyle applications can only be installed through the windows store..
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