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Linux 3.6 Released

samzenpus posted about a year ago | from the brand-new dept.

Linux 143

diegocg writes "Linux 3.6 has been released. It includes new features in Btrfs: subvolume quotas, quota groups and snapshot diffs (aka 'send/receive'). It also includes support for suspending to disk and memory at the same time, a TCP 'Fast Open' mode, a 'TCP small queues' feature to fight bufferbloat; support for safe swapping over NFS/NBD, better Ext4 quota support, support for the PCIe D3cold power state; and VFIO, which allows safe access from guest drivers to bare-metal host devices. Here's the full changelog."

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I Use Linux 3.6 (5, Funny)

o5770 (2739857) | about a year ago | (#41513395)

While the new features like quota groups, snapshot diffs and tcp "fast open" are great, what's really bothering this version is its tendency to

Re:I Use Linux 3.6 (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513435)

Completely agree. I remember when a new Linux release was about a solid, compact code base. Now it's all about optimising for specific interests even at the expense of

Re:I Use Linux 3.6 (4, Funny)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about a year ago | (#41514261)

come on, finish the sentence. don't leave us hang

Please explain (1)

Frankie70 (803801) | about a year ago | (#41515223)

I don't get the joke in the parent and grandparent about leaving the sentence incomplete. Can someone explain?

Re:Please explain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41515751)

The joke is that on a windy day it's about as reliable as a flickering candle. Jack, my brother, installed lin

Re:Please explain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41515897)

It's a variation on the old NO CARRIER joke where you imply that you somehow manage to post what you were typing when your modem suddenly disconnected / computer suddenly crashed.

Re:Please explain (2)

sourcerror (1718066) | about a year ago | (#41516279)

The problem is that with HTTP if your computer crashes not even half of your message will be sent, no wonder some people don't get it.

Re:Please explain (1)

blane.bramble (133160) | about a year ago | (#41516727)

You seem to be unaware how TCP/IP packets work, each packet has a limited size negotiated by the transport layer, it's quite possible for the first few packets to be sent and received, and subsequent packets to be

Re:Please explain (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41517873)

Except that web server will reject any incomplete request therefore we will never see those posts. [no crash, I'm running FreeBSD]

Re:Please explain (1)

equex (747231) | about a year ago | (#41517983)

...but in a in a virtual ma

Re:Please explain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41517009)

I, for one, am using HTTP over UDP where I have removed the HTTP header "Content-Length".

Re:Please explain (5, Funny)

Metabolife (961249) | about a year ago | (#41515961)

It's really quite simple. The parent and grandparent are simply implying that

Re:Please explain (5, Funny)

sgage (109086) | about a year ago | (#41517569)

There once was a man from Lahore,
whose limericks stopped at line four.
When asked why this was,
he said just because

Re:Please explain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41516407)

Quotas reached, probably.

Re:I Use Linux 3.6 (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513441)

While the new features like quota groups, snapshot diffs and tcp "fast open" are great, what's really bothering this version is its tendency to

...core dump? ;)

I kid, I kid!

Re:I Use Linux 3.6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513449)

I see what you mea

Re:I Use Linux 3.6 (2, Funny)

Dave Whiteside (2055370) | about a year ago | (#41513531)

press the preview and submit buttons before crashing you mean

Re:I Use Linux 3.6 (3, Funny)

larry bagina (561269) | about a year ago | (#41513573)

bugs TCP fast think reassemble are in I there code the

Re:I Use Linux 3.6 (0)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | about a year ago | (#41514557)

Lousy mod. Glad someone came in to give that post its rightfully deserved +1 funny.

Re:I Use Linux 3.6 (2, Funny)

organgtool (966989) | about a year ago | (#41517517)

While the new features like quota groups, snapshot diffs and tcp "fast open" are great, what's really bothering this version is its tendency to

click the Submit button on Slashdot before crashing?

Will this be in Quantal? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513431)

I don't want to be stuck on 3.5, that'll set my LXC panel back 6 months.

Re:Will this be in Quantal? (2)

lengau (817416) | about a year ago | (#41514041)

I highly doubt it since they're already in the beta stage, so major version changes are a no-no at this point. You can however get the latest kernel in the Kernel ppa [ubuntu.com] .

The consumers want to know (-1, Flamebait)

concealment (2447304) | about a year ago | (#41513485)

Important questions from consumers, who are also voters and thus determine (collectively) your fate:

1. Does it stream video of Honey Boo Boo?
2. Does it have iTunes to get the latest from Nicki Minaj?

If not, how do we know this is relevant at all to our fascinating modern lives?

Re:The consumers want to know (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513541)

1. Probably yes on Android/Linux, probably no on GNU/Linux.
2. iTunes is only for OS X and Windows I think, no Linux kernels in there.

(but I understood the mood of your question)

Re:The consumers want to know (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513571)

A: What is "honey boo boo", and who is "nicki minaj"?

Re:The consumers want to know (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513645)

No idea about honey boo boo, but nicki minaj is apparently a popular rap vocalist noted for use of sexually explicit lyrics.

Re:The consumers want to know (4, Insightful)

smooth wombat (796938) | about a year ago | (#41513777)

So no one important.

Re:The consumers want to know (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41515863)

See that thing in the distance? That was the point you missed.

If people can't stream videos and play mp3s without major configuration and grief, who cares what version the Linux kernel is at?

The consumers are not who you think (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41517479)

Those people who make websites, embedded devices, phones, and supercomputers very much care about kernel features.

The point of linux is that *you* can hack it up how you want. Fortunately there are a lot of people working on various parts of this (free) OS, so you don't have to hack everything. In fact, most people can get away without having to do any coding, even those people who want to watch (patent-restricted) videos mp3s.

It's unfortunate that you may have to learn something in order to consume your mindless entertainment. You've already come such a long way from only knowing how to cry and suckle. We don't really want to impinge on your vacuity any more than necessary. However, if you found in your use of the system that it did not fulfill some vital need of yours, after the requisite period of entitled ranting, you might stir yourself to one of the following:
[a] File a bug report.
[b] Donate to the organization in charge of said code.
[c] Pay someone to code that feature.
[d] Code it your damn self.

And try not to get stuck at the entitlement/ranting stage. Oh. Too late :(

Re:The consumers want to know (1)

Antonovich (1354565) | about a year ago | (#41517539)

Eh... maybe the people who hang around /.? And if it didn't take serious configuration and grief and only really work when launched from the command line, then what kind of stupid, boring and mundane kind of interface would that be?!? And yes, this may be being posted from an Ubuntu but have you ever tried getting something like a fingerprint reader or automatic graphics card switching to work, even on Ubuntu? Grow a pair! 8-}

Re:The consumers want to know (1)

rjr162 (69736) | about a year ago | (#41513765)

I happened to see 5 minutes of the show yesterday when I first sat down.. someone had TLC on it that show was on. 5 minutes was 5 minutes too many.

Re:The consumers want to know (1)

dnaumov (453672) | about a year ago | (#41515415)

I happened to see 5 minutes of the show yesterday when I first sat down.. someone had TLC on it that show was on. 5 minutes was 5 minutes too many.

what do Tables, Ladders and Chairs wrestling matches have to do with this?

Re:The consumers want to know (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41515441)

My wife showed me a clip last week from that retarded child thinking it was funny. I filed for divorce today.

Re:The consumers want to know (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41514705)

Honey boo boo is a bit like Arthur Askey's Band Waggon show. Nicki Minaj is a bit like Mamie Smith.

Re:The consumers want to know (1)

mfwitten (1906728) | about a year ago | (#41513585)

You make the common mistake of confusing your interests as my interests.

Re:The consumers want to know (1)

Scarred Intellect (1648867) | about a year ago | (#41513727)

Important questions from consumers, who are also voters and thus determine (collectively) your fate:

1. Does it stream video of Honey Boo Boo?
2. Does it have iTunes to get the latest from Nicki Minaj?

If not, we know this is relevant to our fascinating modern lives.

FTFY.

Re:The consumers want to know (-1, Troll)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year ago | (#41514169)

I'd actually like to see the day when a netbook running Linux can play smoothly YouTube videos in full screen, directly from the browser.

Re:The consumers want to know (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41514719)

It was some fine Tuesday back in 2008-09. Why do you ask?

Thin clients rejoice! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513503)

Swap over NFS is something I've been waiting a long time for =)

Re:Thin clients rejoice! (1)

wed128 (722152) | about a year ago | (#41516165)

Ha! I see what you did there...

might have cared... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513545)

back in the early 00s when I was still using Linux but I already switched to OS X.

Re:might have cared... (-1, Offtopic)

Howard Beale (92386) | about a year ago | (#41513629)

Cared enough to post a comment, but not enough to log in first. Lame.

Re:might have cared... (2)

Karzz1 (306015) | about a year ago | (#41514123)

Please do not feed the trolls. :D

And if you're not a fan of binary blobs (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513563)

Re:And if you're not a fan of binary blobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41514317)

I like binary Boobs...

Re:And if you're not a fan of binary blobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41516779)

one or zero of 'em huh?

Re:And if you're not a fan of binary blobs (1)

Microlith (54737) | about a year ago | (#41515121)

Yup. I'm a fan of hardware arbitrarily failing to function. Looking at the list of distros that use it, they're all pretty much irrelevant at this point.

TCP Fast Open (4, Interesting)

w1z7ard (227376) | about a year ago | (#41513699)

Sounds like a great feature! From the article:

"Fast Open could result in speed improvements of between 4% and 41% in the page load times on popular web sites. In this version only the client-side has been merged."

Re:TCP Fast Open (1)

Viol8 (599362) | about a year ago | (#41513943)

4% just possibly, 41%? Highly unlikely. The main slowdown on loading pages or any data is DNS lookup then the data itself. The time taken for actually doing all the TCP negotiation for a connection is trivial in comparison. Its only a few small packets after all.

Re:TCP Fast Open (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year ago | (#41514015)

Opening a TCP connection requires, at the absolute minimum (using the right tricks), one packet each way. A DNS query needs one packet each way, assuming the server has the answer cached. The DNS server is usually going to be closer, so the DNS query should almost always take less time than opening a TCP session.

I beat the DNS part (in part) (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41516233)

"A DNS query needs one packet each way, assuming the server has the answer cached. The DNS server is usually going to be closer, so the DNS query should almost always take less time than opening a TCP session. - by SuricouRaven (1897204) on Monday October 01, @12:02PM (#41514015)

For my 30 favorite sites, I "hardcode" their host-domain name to IP address in my custom HOSTS file!

Doing this is FASTER BY FAR than calling out to remote DNS servers (that may be "downed" or DNS-poisoned redirected, or even a bogus botnet DNS server (yes, there are those)).

I also use what I consider to be the "best in the business" in DNS servers (external to my residence), in:

---

1.) OpenDNS
2.) ScrubIT DNS
3.) Norton DNS

---

(There are others like them, such as Comodo DNS, Google DNS, etc., & I imagine they filter via DNSBL's vs. the same things I do in my custom hosts file... "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", rules!)

* This not only lends me more speed, but also reliability... as well as BETTER "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth" in the same motion, with a single file (that's ubiquitous & versatile as you-know-what!).

APK

P.S.=> I used to keep 250 of them in my custom hosts file, but instead, decided (after not using many of them) to keep 30 or so @ the TOP of the hosts file, so they are "read in" immediately/off-the-bat & since hosts is just a file?

It gets cached (in Windows + MacOS X iirc too, on 1st use of the net, since it only 'kicks on fully' once a webbound request is made (this sped up bootups in both OS))!

Cached either by:

---

1.) The local diskcache kernelmode subsystem (for best possible speed).

or

2.) The native Windows clientside DNS cache service

---

I turn off the latter in the Windows clientside local dnscache service, since I use a HUGE custom hosts file - & Windows local DNS clientside cache service "blows up" on them... it's written into a FIXED SIZE structure is why (dumb imo).

So far, I have (1,845,285++ known bad sites/servers/hosts-domains in them that serve up malwares, malicious script, function in botnets (as C&C or just compromised drones), etc./et al)

Thus, I get cached speeds out of the hosts file data in its entirety (not just my favs, but tons of bogus sites/servers blocked too, the majority of my custom hosts IS that) anyhow!

Albeit, via a diff. mechanism vs. the typical, & save the CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O (by turning off a services I truly DO NOT NEED)...

... apk

Re:I beat the DNS part (in part) (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41518071)

As I said to your other reply, whoever modded you down's nuts. The DNS override trick is a good one using hosts since they access at hard drive speed (7ns) at first and then at the speed of RAM once cached. Making requests to remote DNS servers takes around 100ms total trip (or more sometimes) or near to that. Huge order of magnitude savings right there alone. The rest in blocking ads picks up speed even more and it is noticeable. Very noticeable. Only problem I see is if sites change ip addresses. What do you do then?

Re:TCP Fast Open (5, Interesting)

Marillion (33728) | about a year ago | (#41514119)

On the and-user client side, there may not be much noticeable improvement. But on servers and/or load-balancing front ends this type of improvement could be quite significant.

Re:TCP Fast Open (2)

Bengie (1121981) | about a year ago | (#41515371)

Think high latency connections, like 3G/Satellite where a 3-way handshake is expensive.

You may find THIS, interesting... apk (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41516905)

Enjoy -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3156173&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=41514015 [slashdot.org]

"The main slowdown on loading pages or any data is DNS lookup then the data itself." - by Viol8 (599362) on Monday October 01, @11:55AM (#41513943)

Not only do I speed up the DNS part, but, what REALLY "slows you down" as well as possibly infecting you (I can produce 24 examples of this in fact, documented) is adbanners!

* Cut the banner ads advertisements out? YOU REALLY "FLY"...

I've also found over the decades that cutting out javascript on "every page under the sun I visit" (or any scripts, unless ABSOLUTELY NEEDED as in e-commerce shopping &/or banking sites) helps speed of page loads immensely too!

I do this in Opera's "By Site" preferences - setting ALL pages by default, not being able to run:

1.) Cookies
2.) Scripts
3.) Plugins

Then, as needed, I make "exceptions" that CAN & DO use the features noted, only AS needed (especially the last one, Opera can do "only on demand" as in Flash videos).

(Plus, javascript's a security-risk, especially nowadays, & also CPU killer too, & I've seen that much loading Outlook.com via FireFox & running CoreTemp to monitor this much!)

APK

P.S.=> It works... still, I am impressed quite a lot by the folks in the Linux world, as well as those from the BSD camp too (heck - the latter's IP stack design runs it all for the most part) - especially these improvements in kernel 3.6! I may even TRY another KUbuntu distro again, albeit only if/when it gets this kernel build... apk

Re:You may find THIS, interesting... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41518005)

Thanks for the tips. It makes sense they would work. Whoever modded you down's nuts.

Sounds like Windows' IIS (4, Interesting)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | about a year ago | (#41515713)

This sounds a bit like they generalized the clever latency-saving behavior of IE [slashdot.org] which skips the TCP handshake when talking to IIS and leaves connections half-open. Latency could indeed be greatly improved for servers supporting it.

Re:Sounds like Windows' IIS (1)

snadrus (930168) | about a year ago | (#41516147)

The difference being this is a previously-unimplemented feature of a standard approved a decade ago, so lots of eyes have already considered it.

BTRFS experiences? (4, Interesting)

timeOday (582209) | about a year ago | (#41513703)

I'd be interested to hear what uses people have found for the advanced features of BTRFS. (BTRFS snapshots on a RAID1 volume seem like a great /home partition?) Since BTRFS is gradually evolving it's kind of hard to get a grasp of what is currently available and trustworthy (although this approach is vastly preferable to Microsoft's approach [wikipedia.org] to revolutionizing the filesystem - aim high and never deliver!)

Re:BTRFS experiences? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513833)

I tried Btrfs on openSUSE and Linux Mint. The performance is a little slower than with, say, ext3/ext4, but otherwise it held up fairly well. I like the snapshot features, especially the ability to do a diff on a current file against a snapshotted file. Really quite handy. I wouldn't use Btrfs in production yet as it is still constantly evolving, but for home use it should be fine.

Re:BTRFS experiences? (1)

snadrus (930168) | about a year ago | (#41516187)

Enabling compression actually was what made better performance for me. Of-course to do it right you need to remount the partition at the OS install phase, or copy the files afterward (as it's compress-on-New-file-write).

Re:BTRFS experiences? (2)

siDDis (961791) | about a year ago | (#41513983)

I'm not using BTRFS yet, however as send & receive in BTRFS is similar to the ZFS send & receive implementation you can do really cool things like superquick backup of a gigantic PostgreSQL Database.

The workflow is as following
Execute "pg_start_backup(‘snapshotting’,true)"
Snapshot the filesystem with PostgreSQL data
Execute "pg_stop_backup()"
Send the snapshot to your backup server

Re:BTRFS experiences? (1)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | about a year ago | (#41515031)

I do that with ext4 already. Hell I do that with ext2.

Re:BTRFS experiences? (2)

Bengie (1121981) | about a year ago | (#41515431)

Can you add randomly sized disks to EXT4 and transparently grow the volume? Yeah, didn't think so.

I'm not saying EXT4 is "bad", I'm just saying BTRFS has A LOT more useful features, just less tested and has some trade-offs.

Re:BTRFS experiences? (4, Informative)

flok (24996) | about a year ago | (#41515755)

If you have LVM underneath the ext4 filesystem, you can indeed randomly grow the fs.

Re:BTRFS experiences? (3, Interesting)

Rich0 (548339) | about a year ago | (#41516987)

Sure, if you don't mind it being a pain to dynamically reallocate space between all your filesystems.

Oh, can you copy a 300GB file full of data in a few milliseconds and have the copy only occupy the space necessary to capture the differences between them? No, I don't want a hard link - I want changes to either file to not affect the other.

You can also instantly snapshot files, directories, or the entire filesystem, and the snapshots are first-class citizens (they can be modified, be used in place of the originals, etc).

Oh, and if the power dies in the middle of writing a RAID stripe you don't lose anything beyond the changes to the files you were intending to modify.

Btrfs will be the standard filesystem on linux in a few years - nobody really doubts that. Its main issue now is that it is still fairly immature.

Re:BTRFS experiences? (3, Interesting)

Bengie (1121981) | about a year ago | (#41517175)

I know I tend to play Devil's advocate in an almost trollish way, but it invokes great responses like your's and bluefoxlucid. It seems if you don't get people defensive on the internet, they tend to ignore your posts and don't reply with potentially great stuff.

Anyway, I didn't know about LVM and it looks quite "great". One question I have about it is that it supports allowing a volume to have a RAID1 style backing. If some of the data got silently corrupted in one of the mirrors, how would EXT4 decide which data to choose and how would it fix it or does LVM do this?

The biggest logical issue I've seen with separating volume managers from the FS is that the two typically don't communicate. This lack of communication hurts the overall resiliency. Not to say the FS and volume manager couldn't communicate via an API or something.

Re:BTRFS experiences? (1)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | about a year ago | (#41515815)

Thin provisioning etc, as well ext4 lets you shift the journal and do full ordered write (so you can use an SSD for a journal, and avoid all that sync() to slow hard disk and have bulletproof journaling with both data and metadata, ordered properly).

Re:BTRFS experiences? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41514087)

A bit dated, but I had a pretty large data loss about a year ago-- about 6 months into my btrfs experiment. Most files were backed up, but I did lose a bit of work.

btrfs also uses quite a bit of memory (no, modern desktop users will not notice), but I was playing around with btrfs on my arm board, and the mem overhead was noticeable.

I ended up deciding to let others be the alpha testers.

Re:BTRFS experiences? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41514497)

You want to know why WinFS was never finished?

"Fuck you! That's why." --Steve Ballmer

Re:BTRFS experiences? (1)

Bigby (659157) | about a year ago | (#41515681)

I use it on a MythTV server. I don't know if it is has been added yet, but it was lacking support to remove a stripped device. I want it to re-balance off of that disk, so I can replace it or upgrade it.

Can /boot be btrfs yet?

Otherwise it is pretty cool.

Re:BTRFS experiences? (5, Informative)

mcelrath (8027) | about a year ago | (#41515725)

I've been using btrfs on two computers for about a year now. I'd say it's quite stable. I'm using it for /home as well as a data partition, with zlib compression on /home. The snapshot feature is amazing and should be used liberally. Early on I experienced some disk corruption (mostly due to rapidly switching kernel versions 3.0, 3.2, 3.4, 3.5), which was not a problem because there existed snapshots on the disk. The primary partition can be corrupted, but if you have an uncorrupted snapshot, you can mount it. So, it's a good idea to get in the habit of making regular snapshots. I've been doing it by hand, but a daily rotating snapshots would be a great idea for reliability. There are many cron jobs, shell scripts and whatnot to accomplish this (e.g. Autosnap [kernel.org] ). Furthermore there is apt-btrfs-snapshot [patshead.com] which on Debian/Ubuntu systems will automatically snapshot whenever upgrading/installing a package. This basically takes care of changes in /usr (and you'll need a cron job for /home). The only real drawback I've encountered is that dpkg is very slow (likely due to my use of zlib compression). But dpkg's database access has been a snail for a long time and is dpkg's problem (and I hope someone looks into this soon, it's pissing me off -- zlib just exacerbates the problem). But since apt-get upgrade can run in the background while I'm working, it doesn't really bother me.

I'm also using RAID1 on all magnetic disks (plus one SSD not in a RAID configuration). After countless disk failures, I just don't trust magnetic disks any further than I can throw them. And, they are cheap enough that two instead of one is not a huge burden. In the last year, I have not had occasion to recover from a failure due to RAID1, but I have experimented with mounting one half of the RAID1, and it operates normally. There are a few tricks to re-sync the drives when its partner is re-added to the array, that one should be aware of. It's not fully automatic. One of my RAID1 arrays is over two LVM volumes, with the left half consisting of a single 3 TB disk, and the right half consisting of three disks concatenated into a single LVM. This makes it easier to add disks later. LVM and btrfs can both resize.

A couple things to be aware of: you cannot place a swap file on a btrfs partition. So use another filesystem, a full partition, or just buy more RAM (my preferred solution). You should not use a kernel version less than 3.5. There have been many fixes between 3.0 and 3.4, and you're asking for trouble if you use btrfs on a 3.0 or 3.2 kernel. Since I installed 3.5 kernels on all my machines, I have not had any btrfs-related problems. FWIW, I regularly have to reboot because ATI's shitty video driver causes a kernel panic, sometimes via a hard reset. I have yet to see any filesystem corruption due to this. And everyone should know how to use the Magic SysRq key [wikipedia.org] in the event of kernel panics too. (Alt-SysRq- REIUSB should unmount, sync, and boot, leaving filesystems in a consistent state)

I highly recommend BTRFS at this point. I'm not sure the distributions are up to noob auto-installs, but if you like to do things yourself, it offers a lot of advantages over ext4.

Re:BTRFS experiences? (1)

Rich0 (548339) | about a year ago | (#41517037)

Still waiting for more stability and raid5 support, but I agree, it definitely is going to be the way to go at some point.

Re:BTRFS experiences? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41518039)

One of my RAID1 arrays is over two LVM volumes, with the left half consisting of a single 3 TB disk, and the right half consisting of three disks concatenated into a single LVM.

o.O

Re:BTRFS experiences? (2)

subreality (157447) | about a year ago | (#41517327)

I've used it for a couple years now. My experience:

The good:

Snapshots are a killer feature.
Integrated redundancy is much nicer than RAID.
Integrating LVM into the FS is very nice.

The bad:

sync is SLOW, and dpkg will suffer. You can work around it by creating a snapshot and then running 'eatmydata apt-get whatever' - and accept that you'll have to roll back if you have a power failure mid-install.

It finally has a functional fsck, but I don't trust it yet with mission-critical data.

Generally it works well, but it's still a new FS so I'm not ready to deploy it everywhere yet.

Mostly about btrfs (3, Interesting)

javilon (99157) | about a year ago | (#41513805)

The most active area seems to be btrfs. What is the general opinion, is it ready for general usage?

Any one with feedback from production setups?

Re:Mostly about btrfs (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41513927)

No fsck'ing fsck.

Re:Mostly about btrfs (3, Informative)

Bengie (1121981) | about a year ago | (#41515459)

Any transactional FS(ZFS/BTRFS) shouldn't need fsck. You always start from the last commited transaction or snapshot.

Re:Mostly about btrfs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41515577)

It always amazes me that so many people think hardware actually works properly.

Re:Mostly about btrfs (3, Interesting)

mlts (1038732) | about a year ago | (#41514117)

btrfs is coming along, but most distros still tend to have ext4 as a default. The one thing that btrfs really and desperately needs is filesystem deduplication. Even Windows now has that in place (although it is of a delayed variety where a background task searches for identical blocks and replaces the copies with pointers.)

Re:Mostly about btrfs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41514475)

Not going to happen while patents are being thrown about. It's one thing to do it then have some submariner troll pop up and say "patented!" and then everyone groans about how it was obvious since we invented it ourselves without any help from the troll, another thing entirely to try and do it while a developer like Quantum is in the middle of suing other people who try it.

Re:Mostly about btrfs (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#41514843)

How does shit like this not fail the obviousness test?

I get the feeling you are not telling the whole story, any links to clear this up?

Re:Mostly about btrfs (3, Informative)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | about a year ago | (#41515097)

Because you have people like me who say, "What we should do for deduplication is hash blocks and keep them in a fast bucket hash table cached in RAM and pointed to in the block index. Then we can occasionally compare identically-hashed pointers to see if the blocks are the same, and if so drop one or the other pointer and repoint the others. This dropping can be done by selecting the one with the highest use count as our new pointer, and altering old pointers as they're accessed rather than actively, until the duplicate pointer is empty." Someone says, "PATENTED ALREADY LOL!" It's not "I patented data dedup," it's "Here's every way I can think of to do it, PATENT NOW! Oh you did something vaguely similar to this one, that's mine..."

Re:Mostly about btrfs (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#41515363)

I still don't see how that is not obvious. I don't see how checking at write time, or later when the disk is free or any other time is anything other than a trivial change.

It's not about being obvious (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41517493)

It doesn't matter that it is obvious and shouldn't be patented. What matters is that you can't afford to enter into a drawn out war of attrition that the other sides lawyers are going to make of this case when you bring it.

Abolish all patents now. All of them. Now.

Re:Mostly about btrfs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41517827)

filesystem deduplication. Even Windows now has that in place

Where? Where?

Re:Mostly about btrfs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41514447)

I used it for the previous version of Ubuntu (since I had just purchased my first SSD and BTRFS was one of the file systems with TRIM support. That version of BTRFS was not exactly self-cleaning. Boot times got longer over a period of months to the point where I was waiting about 5 minutes. I switched to ReiserFS and I can cold boot in about 15 seconds, including all the ASUS 'instant web' stuff (which has its own 5 second countdown).

Re:Mostly about btrfs (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41516207)

Dunno...I couldn't trust it for production, so I don't have a production setup. I tried to simulate bad blocks by writing random zeroes to random places on an unmounted FS, for different file systems. For mounting and repairing the FS, my order of confidence would be in ext4, then XFS, then ZFS on FreeBSD (especially mirrored), UFS on FreeBSD, then JFS, then NILFS2. As far as btrfs goes, errors seem to panic the kernel--does btrfs default to errors=panic?--and even when using the built-in RAID1, btrfs would rather panic the kernel than rebuild from the good side of the mirror like ZFS does. btrfsck could not repair the intentionally damaged file system enough to solve this problem.

Maybe btrfs is good enough for production on a good hard drive, maybe not, but the tools are definitely not there yet. The tools are version 0.19 (at time of testing) for a reason. I learned my lesson on using a FS with the promise of better tools and a better file system while using ReiserFS. ReiserFS was good and never failed me, but I'm not going through that again!

The performance is fine, though. In 3.6, it seems like performance with snapshots is competitive with other file systems that support snapshots natively. btrfs handles abuse just as well as other file systems I've tried. For what it's supposed to do, the btrfs programmers are doing a good job so far. If you trust your underlying hardware, you might try btrfs on a not-so-critical partition and give it a try.

Still no TRIM on software RAID (md) (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41514031)

Still no TRIM on software RAID (md).

Astounding that all the other components (major filesystems, device mapper, LVM) support TRIM but the underlying md devices still don't.

Re:Still no TRIM on software RAID (md) (1)

Rich0 (548339) | about a year ago | (#41517087)

How often does an entire stripe become empty? And the software RAID layer would need to keep track of cumulative TRIMS on all the blocks in the stripe so that it could issue the TRIM when the whole thing becomes empty. Then you need someplace to store that metadata, and will doing that cause more problems than the TRIM fixes?

That said, might be nice if it worked since a rebuild could skip known-empty areas.

Of course, eventually btrfs is likely to make many md applications obsolete. Obviously it isn't there yet.

Ok, ok, question (2)

theRunicBard (2662581) | about a year ago | (#41514109)

As a Linux noob, how do I learn what all of those words mean? The only one I even vaguely recognize is TCP and i don't even know what that is. Until someone responds, I'll be at Google.

Re:Ok, ok, question (3, Insightful)

hduff (570443) | about a year ago | (#41515065)

As a Linux noob, how do I learn what all of those words mean? The only one I even vaguely recognize is TCP and i don't even know what that is. Until someone responds, I'll be at Google.

Which is how it is done.

Re:Ok, ok, question (4, Informative)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year ago | (#41515113)

Try kernelnewbies.org and Wikipedia also.

I WTFM... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41515237)

...U RTFM.

Re:Ok, ok, question (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41515377)

If you're asking this question you probably won't notice a difference... And the fact is that most users won't notice the difference even if they do understand each of these concepts.

This is the weird thing about covering kernel releases on Slashdot. The kernel will continue its path of incremental progress. That's good. But most of us don't really need detailed reports along the way. If you're sincerely interested, you'll learn a lot more by reading LKML.

Re:Ok, ok, question (3, Insightful)

hobarrera (2008506) | about a year ago | (#41515929)

Most of these words are not linux-specific, though they are rather technical. It's what you'd expect on the release of a new kernel version, especially on slashdot.

Linux 3.6 Released (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41516781)

There'll be a lot of lonely nerds cleaning jizz out of their bellybuttons and neckbeards tonight.

Comparison (1)

Sun.Jedi (1280674) | about a year ago | (#41517355)

Ask Woz thread: 318 comments
Linux 3.6 thread: 82 comments

I guess we know what stuff matters. :/

Re:Comparison (3, Insightful)

MtHuurne (602934) | about a year ago | (#41518173)

There is a new Linux kernel release every two months; Ask Woz is a once in 15 years event.

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