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Rekall, Aethera, Kapital... Oh My

HeUnique posted more than 13 years ago | from the good-news-for-KDE-users dept.

KDE 144

TheKompany has released a few programs that will surely interest KDE users and Linux users in general. Click below to read about their new software releases. (If you don't know what -- or who -- TheKompany is, you can read Linux.com's interview with TheKompany president Shawn Gordon.)

The first application is ReKall. Rekall is TheKompany's answer to MS Access. Lots of people have asked for this kind of application for Linux, and TheKompany in response has issued this Preview Release version. The Upcoming KOffice will include a version of Rekall. Instead of using Visual Basic like Access does, Rekall uses Python, as well as plug-ins for MySQL, Postgre-SQL, and Informix (other plug-ins for the various databases will follow.) Note: Since Rekall is using KDE-DB (also a contribution to KDE by TheKompany) and KDE-DB will be available only with the upcoming KDE 2.2; you'll need to do some simple compilation and installation. All the instructions are available at their web pages.

The next product is Aethera -- a nice PIM manager to manage all your email as well as contact information. You might say it's competing with Evolution, but both of the projects takes different direction of implementation. Aethera is also expandable with Plug-ins. (Debian packages are also available).

While ReKall and Aethera are Open Source, the last one is a commercial product called Kapital, which is an Quicken/MS Money workalike. The product costs money (you can find those prices at the above link) and it has one of the nicest and easiest GUI's I've been played with. You can download the beta to test it and find for yourself. (Debian packages are available for Kapital as well.)

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Re:The problem with Linux suites (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#298046)

Because if they picked a KDE-based suite the GNOME-ists would cry unholy murder and if they picked a GNOME-based suite the KDEanista's would renew their jihad against all things GNOME.

Re:So much power on one company... (5)

HeUnique (187) | more than 13 years ago | (#298048)

Wrong

TheKompany is making their products and if they want - they release software to be included with KDE, but that DOESN'T mean that KDE is depending on TheKompany - they are totally independent of each other.

KDE is being developed by mostly volunteers (and some developers who are paid by the various distributions - Caldera, Mandrake, SuSE) - so if TheKompany tommorow goes south it will be a sad day, but KDE development will be continued...

On the GNOME side, Eazel and Ximian are doing lots of work - if Eazel and Ximian will go south, GNOME will continue to be developed, but with much slower pace until they'll get new volunteers to help.

No. (5)

oGMo (379) | more than 13 years ago | (#298049)

Why is it people continue to follow the Microsoft-think of "One World, One Operating System, One Product"? You do not need a single ubiquitous application or suite to solve interoperability problems! What you should promote instead is a single standard for documents themselves. Wait... isn't XML supposed to do this? (Or is that just a hollow promise? I'm not really an XML fan, an I'm not an application fan either, but this is ridiculous.)

Isn't it every other day with "New macro virus!" or "New Outlook security hole!" that we criticize the ubiquity of single applications? "Interoperability" means multiple products working together. Not the MS definition, "one product working with itself on every computer". That is not interoperability.

In fact, not having a standard application encourages interoperability. What would have happened if we'd settled on a single application for mail exchange? File transfer? HTML? (Oh, whoops, we tried that, and now have a horribly fragmented mess that's still being cleaned up.)

One ubiquitous office suite is not the answer.

So much power on one company... (1)

cesarcardoso (1139) | more than 13 years ago | (#298050)

There's something that itches me on theKompany.

GNOME has a lot of companies working to improve it. Ximian and Eazel take the front lead, but don't forget RedHat (via RHAD Labs) and Gnumatic and Henzai and others.

KDE has only theKompany. This is bad for KDE - if tomorrow theKompany goes berzerk, KDE is in very trouble. This is way bad.

(said by someone who doesn't run any KDE)

Re:So much power on one company... (1)

DataDevil (1762) | more than 13 years ago | (#298051)

TheKompany has _no_ power over KDE, it just makes software available to it. It's more the other way round, if KDE doesn't accept pieces of TheKompany, TheKompany has to change their businessplans..e.g Kivio will be free (beer and gpl) in Koffice, but they want to sell commercial Stencils for it..

Re:The problem with Linux suites (2)

Genom (3868) | more than 13 years ago | (#298052)

Of course they do -- that's their business. But locking people into a proprietary document format is making the same mistake that was made in the Windows world.

If the format is open, and accessible to many different apps, then there is a real reason for a vendor to make their application perform better. If the format field is levelled, and one vendor has a word processor app that is faster, more stable, and more portable than their competition - they will get more users.

The problems then come when, in order to have product distinction, companies "extend" the standard - thus making files made by their app incompatible with other apps. This is the situation we have to avoid. It also means that once a particular app is exceedingly fast, stable, and portable, there won't be much call for other apps to do the same job -- so the developers of the "winning" app will be stuck...either move on and make new software, or start "extending".

The business world wants the latter, as it means locking people into a certain program/format, thus ensuring revenue from "upgrades". The former is generally better for users and the "community" as a whole, as it means more quality software.

This is one of those hurdles the linux/open source/free software/whatever community has to clear before free, open standards for this sort of thing will be possible.

Re:The problem with Linux suites (3)

Genom (3868) | more than 13 years ago | (#298053)

So what really needs to happen is the KDE and GNOME people need to get together and decide on UI interoperability standards -- then any apps wishing to become a "de facto standard" would adhere to those, and run perfectly well in a GNOME or KDE environment, or a mix of the two, or neither.

To some extent, this has already occurred - AFAIK, it's possible to drag&drop between the two, and KDE is able to make use of GTK themes (haven't played with it myself though)

Admittedly, the differences in toolkits (qt vs gtk) aren't trivial - and the backend communications are even less so - but it doesn't seem out of the question that an interop standard could be agreed upon - then it's just a matter of porting the current apps to the new standards.

I am, of course, prone to being wrong.

Re:The problem with Linux suites (2)

spitzak (4019) | more than 13 years ago | (#298054)

Excellent idea.

The real win would be a standard and documented file format. Then people could run *any* program on Linux to edit their file. Obviously some will work better than others and there would be preferences. It would also help if the programs would preserve sections of the file that they don't understand and write them unchanged to the output.

The only way I see a standard file format coming out is if a free program is included with distributions that reads and writes it. A free Windows program that does the same will probably be necessary as well.

Re:Out of curiosity (1)

Jeffrey Baker (6191) | more than 13 years ago | (#298056)

Slackware-current will work in that setup.

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (1)

cob2k25 (6962) | more than 13 years ago | (#298057)

please read some noam chomsky.

especially about what the US did to latin america. it's not a good record.

Re:So... (2)

Cid Highwind (9258) | more than 13 years ago | (#298059)

when is their next product, "Avada Kedavra", going to be available?
As soon as the rest of their dev team gets out of Azkaban.

Re:PIM Manager??? (1)

pivo (11957) | more than 13 years ago | (#298061)

What I want is a Personal PIM Manager that Manages my Personal Information!

Re:Why doesn't ... (1)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 13 years ago | (#298062)

I'm glad someone explained that. In my view the system worked in Word 6.0/95, and I created some very long documents that were nearly entirely in outline format using the Bullet/Numbering feature.

Word 97 was broken, and then it got worse for Word 2000 (supposedly necessary so that you could round-trip from HTML.) If I try to open those old Word 6 docs from Word 2000, they show up with no bullets/numbering at all!
--

Re:Why doesn't ... (3)

Kismet (13199) | more than 13 years ago | (#298065)

The MS file format is specific to features in Word. If the Linux word processor doesn't support those features, then it is pointless to try and be compatible.

Essentially, if you want to be compatible, then you have to treat the document the same way that Word does. Which, one way or another, means putting Word on Linux (by reverse engineering, porting, or parallel development of equivalent code).

To develop a word processor that reads Word documents, your main goal has to be compatibility, not functionality or innovation. You can't say "I think it would be great if my word processor had feature A and changed the concept of feature B". Then when you try to push Word documents into it, you find out that your paradigm doesn't fit Microsofts', and you have to change it all.

Currently, import filters have to eliminate or ignore the parts of the format it doesn't support, and transform the other peices to fit the paradigm. Hence the poor filters.

So when people say, "Linux needs better import filters for Word documents," what they are really saying (but don't know it) is, "Linux needs Word."

Re:The problem with Linux suites (4)

Kismet (13199) | more than 13 years ago | (#298066)

The real issue is: why don't they stick to standard file types? Well, maybe there isn't a standard for presentations, spreadsheets, etc.

You can't use a Microsoft standard without your program having Microsoft's features in it. The two are inseparably tied together.

The de facto standard doesn't solve the problem, it just limits the options. A true standard will give a base upon which may be built custom extensions. That way an application may explore the possibilities, yet return to the basics when interoperability is called for.

Re:substance (1)

ethereal (13958) | more than 13 years ago | (#298067)

I have to agree - GnuCash is already great and is getting still better at a rapid pace. Right now many of the big improvements are in the unstable development version, but if you can get all of the dependencies worked out it's really sweet to use.

ObDisclaimer: Gnucash unstable is not for use with your real financial data, although since they've gone to a text-based file format with frequent automatic backups, in practice I do use unstable for my books with very few problems. But don't do it 'cause I said so.

CygWin (2)

HiThere (15173) | more than 13 years ago | (#298069)

Now if I could just get KDE to run on CygWin, I could switch to using all the same programs on both platforms!

:-)


Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (1)

JabberWokky (19442) | more than 13 years ago | (#298070)

There aren't any hate groups called "The GGG". Compare "The KKK".

Yes, but there *are* the:

Gestapo
GRU
Goth (the historical people who attacked and burned the Roman Empire, not the clubkids)

And all sorts of lovely words like:

Genocide
Gangbang
Geisha (depending on your outlook)
Ghetto
Geld
Gladiator (read history)
Germ warfare
Gluttony
Goblin
Grave
Grief
Grotesque

...and many more. Yes, *all* letters have associations with negative words. It's almost like words were made up of the same 26 letters rearranged over and over again. Get over it.

--
Evan

Re:Out of curiosity (2)

JabberWokky (19442) | more than 13 years ago | (#298071)

Does KOffice save to Word files? Can it open Word files? I haven't gotten a chance to play with it and would like to use it for my normal .doc files.

KWord opens MS Word 97 and 2000 (unsure about 95) files quite nicely. It has alpha RTF support (which can be saved as .doc files and opened transparantly by all versions of MS Word... that's how even MS Word itself handles backward compatability).

Basically, the hard part is done, and now the easy part needs to be cleaned up. Kinda ironic isn't it?

On the other side of the "Big Two Apps", KSpread reads Excel 97 and 2000 files just fine, but only saves to CSV right now.

--
Evan

Re:Out of curiosity (2)

JabberWokky (19442) | more than 13 years ago | (#298072)

The present version of KWord(Part of Koffice) does read MsWord File sort of. As in not very well.

Whups... I replied to this same message saying that it works well. Which it does - *if* you're talking about the current, i.e., CVS version.

The KWord packaged in the last official release of KOffice is much much more shaky in its MS Word import abilities. I should have clarified.

--
Evan

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (5)

JabberWokky (19442) | more than 13 years ago | (#298073)

There's a long tradition in the US for the Ku Klux Klan to use "K" spelling as a code-word for something they endorse. (Posters for "Kalvin Kooledge" used to be fairly common, for example. Check eBay for more.). However, since the KDE folks are european, I wouldn't expect them to know this.

This is nearly off-topic, but interesting in the same way:

KDE has a project going to produce a print publication (alongside a web site, of course) that highlights and discusses KDE applications and features articles of interest to KDE users.

The title of the project is KDE-Zine (can anyone in Europe guess where this is going?).

We Americans (particularly us Southern Boys) reflexively connect Kapitalized words that subsitute "s/C/K" with the embarrassing and horrific KKK, but the Europeans in the KDE project don't really realize this, but it goes both ways...

Recently on the KDE-Zine list, some of the Americans had started abbreviating KDE-Zine as "the kz". They would discuss what should go into the kz, what progress was made on the kz, etc. It lasted for a short time until some of the Germans on the list became rather emotional, to the bewilderment of the Americans.

It turns out that "kz" is the designation for the Nazi Concentration Camps in German. It's a *very* touchy and emotion filled subject.

It's interesting how Open Source ties cultures together, and how we are all revealed to have our own little hangups and embarassing cultural legacies.

And then there's the recent nixing of the proposed name for the new standard text editor for KDE - the original author wanted to name it Kant, until it was pointed out that many english speakers (particularly some British ones) had some issues with how that was pronounced. :)

--
Evan

Re:The problem with Linux suites (5)

aardvaark (19793) | more than 13 years ago | (#298074)

No office suite is very good yet. As soon as one pokes its head out from the others with the stablity and features necessary, then it will probably be adopted as more or less "standard" (although it could be that we get more than one, which is probably fine). RedHat should not adopt any office suite as standard, because that would interfere with the evolution and natural selection of the best office suite. Just wait a little bit, and things will sort themselves out. Same is true for the web browser (konqueror really is pretty good, and Mozilla/gecko is getting better all the time). I've seen the cries of "X-windows doesn't do 3-D", and "we don't support USB", and "the kernel doesn't scale well", etc., etc..... the point is we always seem to get there. The same is true of office suites. We have several serious contenders now. Just let them evolve. In a year, we'll have a serious contender to MS Office.

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (1)

listen (20464) | more than 13 years ago | (#298076)

Some complete monkeys thought that in London, it would be pronounced cunt.

As a Londoner, I can assure the aforementioned monkeys that no London accent would cause this...

It used to be thought *good* to mess with peoples sensibilities - see fsck - but now its gone so far in the other direction that we've started to make up imaginary cultural issues to avoid.

Duh.

Re:The problem with Linux suites (1)

Darkfell (21270) | more than 13 years ago | (#298077)

perhaps if the multitude of suites ( choice is a Good Thing(tm) could consolidate around a given set of standards for file formats / protocols then the problem of too much choice wont be a problem. this can be seen to be happening slowly, but im not how sure it is. therein lies the key.

~Darkfell

Re:The Kompany doesn't get it. (4)

abelsson (21706) | more than 13 years ago | (#298078)

In other words, TheKompany sells shareware/crippleware/demoware.

Eh? their products are either fully commercial, closed source, etc or totally open (gpled, bsded, or what license they use). For the most cases their commercial and open software is separate and have little to do with each other. Some of it is open-source but addons cost money - somewhat more questionable but still ok with me- usually the added features are stuff not that many need.

I just dont see their free projects as their evil plan to lure customers into feeling all warm and fuzzy then totally ripping them off. In my opinion the free stuff is their main thing, and the proprietary stuff is just to keep the food on the table. How else could they spend most of the day writing free stuff?

Now, that's a totally legitimate business plan, of course, but TheKompany isn't a free software company any more than Microsoft is. They're just selling proprietary software for an otherwise Free platform.

But please remember that they've released a lot more Free code than proprietary. Comparing them to microsoft is insulting. It's true though that they're not a *pure* free software company. They mix from both worlds. The "feel" i get is that they are a bunch of guys that wants to write free code, but still eat so they do the best they can.

So don't claim that they "Get it." And why are you knocking Ximian? It's fine to praise TheKompany in this forum, but will you (and TheKompany's prez!) quit it with the "t-shirt and monkey" crap?

I have nothing against Ximian and eazel and i truly hope they make it - but i just cant see how where they'll get the revenue. Hopefully it's just me being stupid.

-henrik

TheKompany gets it (5)

abelsson (21706) | more than 13 years ago | (#298079)

Instead of depending on selling products that are far from their core product (think stuffed animals and t-shirts) theKompany doeswhat a software company should and make money from software - while at the same time releasing huge amounts of totally Free (RMS sense) code.

I have absolutly no problems buying products from theKompany - because I know I sponsor their free work by doing so (that their products are excellent may have something to do with it too :)

All people need food on the table, and selling some proprietary applications to be able to develop free stuff seems like a reasonable tradeoff. I'm afraid some linux companies will just disappear once they've burned through the VC money simply because they have no plans on how to make money. :(

Sorry FSF(Free Software Fanatics? :) but i feel that in some cases proprietary software might be a Good Thing. This could be one of them. The net effect of theKompany releasing some closed source products will be *more* Free software, not less.

Also: If you think their products could be useful: *please* buy them! It'll keep the free stuff coming.

Kudos to all @ theKompany.

-henrik (no, i dont work there :)

Re:Sarcasm? (2)

terpia (28218) | more than 13 years ago | (#298082)

If you want to be well liked, be CANADIAN. Im an American, and have experienced much anti-American sentiment that extended beyond "obligatory but well-meant jokes" in various European countires. In my last trip I put a Canadian flag patch on my backpack and was treated VERY nicely my entire trip. Luckily I lived in Canada for a year so I wasn't completely clueless when asked where I lived and such.
Gotta love the Canadians...

Re: I Koundn't Agree More (1)

microbob (29155) | more than 13 years ago | (#298083)

What is up with all the 'kays'... Jeez, be more Kreative.... Jim

Re:substance (1)

zuvembi (30889) | more than 13 years ago | (#298084)

I hate to sound like a whiner. But damn, I can't get the stupid thing to work. I've tried source for two or three of the 1.4 releases, two of the 1.5 releases. I tried a couple of times with rpm's. It is the most difficult program to install I've ever seen. I've installed lots of other kludgy things, but this one defeated me.

I'd love to install it, but it seems like it's got so many 1337 libraries it needs I can't get the damn thing to install. I finally got all the libraries installed it wanted (including libgal), and the damn configure script refused to see the libgal library, I ran ldconfig, I checked my ld.conf, I tried adding it my shell environment paths, it no worky - AGGGHHHH!!!!!

Moneydance worked though, sigh.

Suse 7.1 if anyone cares...

Re:substance (1)

zuvembi (30889) | more than 13 years ago | (#298085)

It does, I installed that and all it's dependencies, and it promptly crashed on start-up. I think I might put a different (more gnome biased) distro on one of my other boxen and see if I can get it to work...

Re:The problem with Linux suites (1)

reneky (31046) | more than 13 years ago | (#298086)

For home users stamping out a document or two I don't think it matters much, so let them install whatever they like.

For a small or medium size company thinking of going over to Linux I really think Star Office on a nice box is good enough. I've had great success with both MS Word documents and powerpoint presentations. It's a matter of trying how it works with a bunch of typical documents. Of course, you need to keep a windows installation around just in case, but it shouldn't be a showstopper for a many people wanting to switch to linux. YMMV.

presentation standard == SMIL (XML based too) (1)

ivar (31153) | more than 13 years ago | (#298087)

You need to check out SMIL (Synchronized Multimedia Integration Langugae).. it's the w3c's powerpoint killing standard (and, combined with motion SVG it'll kill flash too). Version 2 even has support for transitions so you can be just as cheezy as you were with powerpoint.

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (1)

rking (32070) | more than 13 years ago | (#298088)

And then there's the recent nixing of the proposed name for the new standard text editor for KDE - the original author wanted to name it Kant, until it was pointed out that many english speakers (particularly some British ones) had some issues with how that was pronounced. :)

Presumably it would be pronounced the same way as in Immanuel Kant. I've never heard anyone object to the name or consider it unsuitable for polite conversation. Okay, Kantian philosophy isn't mainstream daily conversational material in Britain but it comes up from time to time. I think the people objecting to it must have some weird hang ups.

Come to think of it, "cant" and "can't" are both prefectly acceptable words throughout the UK, at least in my experience, and I can't see why the "K" would make a difference.

Re:The problem with Linux suites (1)

madmaxx (32372) | more than 13 years ago | (#298089)

Proprietary data files (and interfaces to those files) are the limiting factor between different 'suites' of applications, and not the suites themselves. Microsoft, for example, has deliberately hoarded the specifications of their file formats ... which results in a lack of easy operability outside of their binaries. The result of this is the requirement for Microsoft's proprietary embeddable COMponents or binary viewers, as viewing /editing /access of those files requires a proprietary binary to be used.

Imagine an open format for the hoarded MS office suite formats (or any suite) ... where there could be any number of viewers/interfaces/tools - which solve for different uses of the files (like a command line viewer, text mode viewer, browser viewer, summary viewer, etc., etc.). Things like embedded COM (for the purpose of displaying a proprietary document) become less important as the source for many viewers would be available. The choice to COMponentize would be a separate issue, and a system would not *have* to rely on COMponents or even a COMponent system for that purpose. COMponent systems can be a good thing, but access to data should *never* be limited to one platform/vendor/library/etc. That is just evil.

The best case, in my opinion, are strong standards in the data formats and simple, open data access libraries and/or COMponents. Viewing, editing, reporting, or otherwise can have as many implementations, platforms, paradigms as a user base will support. Limiting the high level functionality to one group, vendor or open 'suite' is not far from proprietary ... and does not serve the users well.

In the end, leaders in an open system are naturally selected - and can change over time, whether sources are open or not. In a closed standards system (a la microslop or otherwise) leaders are selected naturally initially (and even then sometimes selected by oem agreements and similar) ... but from that point the competition is obstructed. The obstruction of competition not only results in fewer user choices, but also the lasting future of the data encloesd in the propietary formats ... and use of that data in as many ways as could be useful.

Propietary standards are evil. Closed data interface libraries, or user access to that data (via 'suites') is evil as well. The data needs to be free, access to the data needs to be free, extending the possible uses of the data needs to be free as well. There may be room for propietary extensions of use, but not in exclusion ... and not in a way that comprimises the freedoms of the user. The key is to provide the users with the greatest freedoms possible.

substance (5)

nosinut (32413) | more than 13 years ago | (#298090)

Regarding Kapital:

You could pay $30 for a "preview release", or $40 for a final version. Or you could just run Quicken instead.

Or you could use the just-as-polished, already available, open source product [gnucash.org] .

I bet you'd like some screenshots [gnucash.org]

An aside:
People always whine about KDE vs Gnome and relative freedom, GPL, FSF, blahblahblah. But it is interesting to note that Ximian and Eazel release ALL their products under Free licenses. TheKompany says "We will be offering Kapital under a closed-source license. However, we are considering a limited open-source license, under whose terms purchasers of the software also receive source code. We are exploring other options for making the software as open as possible."

Actions speak louder than words.

Re:Dont forget kivio (1)

Saltheart (32740) | more than 13 years ago | (#298091)

The thing that I don't like about kivio is that the stencil set format is proprietary. At least that is what I gather from their website and in other reviews. I know they have to make money, but I need to be able to make my own stencils. I can't hardly stand the idea of being locked into product that depends on something proprietary in order to have functionality. As far as I'm concerned this is a non-FREE product. It's not so much the money ($5.00 per stencil set), it's the freedom that I hate to give up.

Re:The problem with Linux suites (1)

johnnie (33967) | more than 13 years ago | (#298092)

although the idea of RedHat, et al. fixing on a de facto standard is viable and a Good idea, still i have nits to pick. besides, would KDE's (and, therefore, Mandrake's) apparent adoption of these packages not imply said standard?

s20451 : so you can edit/display/transmit your files to virtually any Windows user.
emphasis mine.

the fact that virtually any Windows user can use the stuff i used Windows to produce != interoperability.

also, the 'virtually any' piece of your argument appears to me to have a couple of holes, itself. i have, in the past, had major, major hassles trying to coax M$APP9x to deal with the output of M$APP2000.

interoperability, this does not make.

interoperability is more (to my thinking) a cross-platform issue. ex: MySQL will work on just about any platform out there, AFAIK... never messed with the M$ versions thereof, but you get the idea...

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (2)

Hard_Code (49548) | more than 13 years ago | (#298096)

"Come to think of it, "cant" and "can't" are both prefectly acceptable words throughout the UK, at least in my experience, and I can't see why the "K" would make a difference."

Perhaps because people didn't want the name of the text editor being a homonym for "Can't"?

Why doesn't ... (1)

Smthng (71777) | more than 13 years ago | (#298099)

Linux settle on the Word 95 or 97 .doc format as a standard.

Surely this has been examined enough to provide a reference implementation. And several open source tools and filters already exist. Not to mention that the rest of the (Windows and Mac) world will be already be compatible.

What would be the disadvantages or drawbacks to something like this happening (apart from natural MS negative sentiments) ??

Re:The Kompany doesn't get it. (1)

stubbyg (74241) | more than 13 years ago | (#298100)

Actually there is a good bit of totally free, fully functional software, just look at the web site.

Re:Dont forget kivio (1)

stubbyg (74241) | more than 13 years ago | (#298101)

Actually the format isn't proprietary, it is just copywritten to mean that you cannot freely distribute them. We've had several people submit stencils that they built by just examing the default that was included.

Re:my thoughts... (1)

Time Doctor (79352) | more than 13 years ago | (#298105)

Why multiple package formats when it could just use something like Setup [lokigames.com] to accomplish the same goals for everyone, while not being attached to a particular distro-specific format?

Re:ph33r my flamebait!! (1)

JEDi_ERiAN (79402) | more than 13 years ago | (#298106)

Q: GNOME: "nome" or "guh-nome"?

A: In English, the word "gnome" is pronounced with a silent "g". However, GNOME itself is generally pronounced as "guh-nome", just as GNU is pronounced "guh-noo" when referring to the GNU Project.

'nuff said. next time research before you post a dumbass comment!

E.


-

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (1)

userunknown (82605) | more than 13 years ago | (#298107)

I have to agree, it was kind of cool at first but now it's getting extremely old.

Excellent! (1)

Wind_Walker (83965) | more than 13 years ago | (#298108)

Finally! It's good to see that a korporation (couldn't resist the pun, sorry) is finally getting the message. Linux needs good, stable business applications.

I mean, let's look at the OSen and find out what they're good at:

  • MacOS: Incredible graphics processing, mainly due to hardware
  • BeOS: Great graphics, again, and a tight package
  • *BSD/*nix: Incredible network applications
  • Windows: Games, games, games.
But what does Linux have to offer? Not a whole lot. Sure, they have ports of networking applications, and a few games that have been (poorly) ported by Loki. But come on... Linux will never be able to compete for a share of the game market. It's just too tough to upgrade a video card when it takes you 3 hours to track down the latest 0.01 BETA source code for the driver.

New business applications can help migrate Linux over to the business desktop; let's hope it stays there.

------
That's just the way it is

Re:Excellent! (1)

drewness (85694) | more than 13 years ago | (#298110)

How are the Loki games poorly ported? I have a half dozen on my computer right now and only one has any problem whatsoever ( Heavy Gear 2 seg faults when switching from 3d to 2d context on some nVidia cards) In fact the quality of some of their ports is amazing. I bought Unreal Tournament: Game of the Year, which Loki has as a beta release ( plain Unreal Tourny is supposed to be release quality) and it works at least as well as it does on my friends windows machine.
As for video cards, I have a Geforce2 GTS, and to get it to work perfectly all I had to do was download two rpms from nVidia's page and install them and Boom! I went from 3fps to 190fps with ssystem -bench. It is only tough to get drivers for video cards because not all the video card manufacturers find it worth their time to make a driver for Linux. If there were a demand, and not people saying "gaming will never work, why bother?" then perhaps they would work on getting Linux drivers out with the windows drivers, not just whenever or not at all.
That being said; sound is a big Linux problem. Even the pay OSS sound card drivers can't support all the features on new nice surround sound cards, e.g. sound blaster live platinum 5.1
I use Linux every day for all my computing needs, and I try to keep a "not yet" not a "never" point of view. We need to cross a threshold of use before Linux can be viewed as a serious enough contender in any field to warrant writing drivers in the eyes of the hardware companies.

Re:Why doesn't ... (1)

devjoe (88696) | more than 13 years ago | (#298111)

The Word bulleted/numbered list format is horribly broken. It wasn't quite right in Word 95, and then MS stripped it out and replaced it with something totally different in Word 97... which was even more broken.

Some of the problems can be fixed with better software -- such as the way Word decides what paragraphs are part of what lists -- but some of the problems are deeper.

Word stores some of the settings for list paragraphs in the paragraph, and some of them in the list format object that the list is attached to, but some of the formatting appears both places, and Word uses some algorithm to decide which is correct -- which is one of the reasons lists sometimes get messed up in complex Word documents.

Philosophy Time (1)

niekze (96793) | more than 13 years ago | (#298114)

I wonder what Karl Marx would think about this. Das Kapital, Marx's magnum opus talks about the inner workings of the capital system. Very interesting stuff. I don't know if they had any intention for the names being similar. Obviously, Kapital is the german version of capital. Nevertheless, has anyone ever come across any recent communist literature that would correlate with the whole gnu/linux movement? Is Linus the "New Soviet Man" ? Shit, i could probably write my final paper on something like that for my Marx class.
But look at the saying that goes something like give what you can, take what you need and the open source movement seems to follow that. I know this is horribly off topic, but when i saw "Kapital", i had to comment, because I am reading it at the moment :)

Re:PIM Manager??? (1)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 13 years ago | (#298116)

And like "NIC Card" = "Network Interface Card Card"
--

Re:Excellent! (3)

kcarnold (99900) | more than 13 years ago | (#298117)

About 3D -- if you use Debian's supplied XFree86 4.x deb's, you get the precompiled drivers for the video card. And I have no idea where you're getting the idea that the drivers are 0.01 -- DRI is maturing rapidly and is already very useful on out-of-the-box configurations. Yeah it will only get better, and I think they're still calling the results "beta", but it's very-usable beta. If you have a card that is not supported in a distributed X, like the ATI Radeon (which I have), getting the drivers is still quite easy -- go here [debian.org] . That's the Debian side of things (and will probably apply to Progeny etc. as well); talk to others about the Mandrake or whatever. The only driver really lacking in automated install at the moment is the nVidia Linux driver, but I'll bet somebody has packaged that up by now also, and it's not hard at all to install even without a package. I think that takes care of almost all mainstream video cards (see the DRI site [sourceforge.net] for what cards they support (a lot)).

And what's this crap about the games being poorly ported! Loki has done an amazing job moving these highly complex games from one display platform to another and packaging the results. I have recently installed Descent 3 for Linux, and the only trouble I had was that I didn't want to install it as root (but most people would install anything as root) and had to change the permissions on the install directory, but that was simple.

As for business apps, having useful apps on Linux would be nice, but VMWare running Windows 2000 gets me all I could possibly want in that area without leaving the comfort of my KDE desktop.

Let's hear it for the good work already done in bringing Linux to the mainstream, and I'm not even getting into KDE vs. GNOME or any of that (they're both nice, usable environments; I happen to like KDE more).

Slashdotted still?? (1)

the Man in Black (102634) | more than 13 years ago | (#298118)

I'm obviously not the only one excited... :-)

Well, there goes... (2)

the Man in Black (102634) | more than 13 years ago | (#298119)

...my last reason to reboot into Windows on my home box. FINALLY freedom from Microsoft Money! Hopefully, if decently imports Microsoft's crappy .QIF implementation, or better yet, maybe someone reverse-engineered the .MNY format. Regardless, this is all I need. Oh, happy happy day!

P.S.-->Hrm. Guess I'll have to switch to KDE...is it worth it? I happen to like Window Maker....

The Kompany doesn't get it. (1)

chetohevia (109956) | more than 13 years ago | (#298120)

> Also: If you think their products could be
> useful: *please* buy them! It'll keep the free
> stuff coming.

In other words, TheKompany sells shareware/crippleware/demoware. Now, that's a totally legitimate business plan, of course, but TheKompany isn't a free software company any more than Microsoft is. They're just selling proprietary software for an otherwise Free platform.

So don't claim that they "Get it." And why are you knocking Ximian? It's fine to praise TheKompany in this forum, but will you (and TheKompany's prez!) quit it with the "t-shirt and monkey" crap?

a.

Dont forget kivio (4)

Wizard of OS (111213) | more than 13 years ago | (#298121)

Kivio [thekompany.com] is maybe not a recent addition, but Yet Another Tool From TheKompany That Looks Like Something We Know From Windows (YATFTKTLLSWKFW)

--

Re:Dont forget kivio (1)

boarderboy (117892) | more than 13 years ago | (#298123)

I don't believe that this is correct. The source for Kivio is in the KDE Koffice CVS and it includes the source for flowcharting stencils. You could easily add your own stencils if you wanted to. You may not have the source to their proprietary stencils, but you can't have everything. Also, Shawn Gordon is very helpfull and I'm sure he would help make sure that you were satisfied if you purchased the stencils from them.

Matt Newell

Is it just me, or does that K* thing remind (1)

moogla (118134) | more than 13 years ago | (#298124)

you of all of the Donkey Kong games? You know, klumps, the Kremlins, and King K. Rool... On the other hand, the g* naming scheme doesn't remind me of anything. I don't know, I spent all of high school playing those wonderful Rare games and now I'm permanently biased away from KDE.

Re:The problem with Linux suites (1)

holviala (124278) | more than 13 years ago | (#298125)

The problem with Linux suites is that there's no lack of them [...] users just install whatever suite they think is neat, which is an obstacle to interoperability.

The obstacle to interoperability is NOT the amount of Office suits (including all the betas...) Linux has, but the lack of one good standard file format. And it's not really a lack of a file format either, it's the lack of co-operation between the programmers / companies. If we'd agree (fat change) on one format, it wouldn't matter what software you were using.

Unfortunately, I'm just dreaming.

Conversely, the (perhaps only?) good thing about MS Office is that any computer with Windows is likely to also have Office

I work for a huge global company which doesn't use Office, at all (ok, so we happen to use something inferior which I hate and won't name *cough*Lotus*cough). My girfriend uses Windows every day for all her work - yet she refuses to install ANY browser plugins (no, she doesn't even have Flash). And she only uses Office97 (even thou she's a professional secretary). The fact is, you can't rely on people having "the standard applications" even if they're using Windows.

The most compelling example of this that I can think of is PowerPoint [...] I can borrow someone else's [laptop], as long as they have Office

I used to do support for a small company. They used PPT quite a lot for presentations, and I didn't object. I thought too that it was the best program for the job. Until I started hearing problems - the client had a different version of PPT, or the version was the same but it refused to load the show.... The fact is, the only computer that can show your PPT presentation right is your own. That's exactly why you see people carrying their own laptops to presentations.

Anyway, we just need to agree on file formats and Linux office world will be heaven. We already have proven standars for these so why not use them? Like Postscript for documents, HTML for presentations (works like a wonder after fighting with PPT's) etc. I can't be that hard.

Uh.... must.... resist... writing... more... and... get.... back.... coding....

Re:The problem with Linux suites (1)

jcsmith (124970) | more than 13 years ago | (#298126)

I think they now ship koffice and several of the gnome apps (gnumeric and such). They also ship klyx and abiword for word processing

Re:Excellent! (1)

_Bean_ (128235) | more than 13 years ago | (#298128)

Uhhh doesn't linux fit in that third category there? Ya know the one that says *nix.

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (1)

porky_pig_jr (129948) | more than 13 years ago | (#298130)

on a related topik our lokal (Kambridge MA) maoist-stalinist nuts refer to USA as Amerikka. doesn't seem like they endorse it though.

Does it have something to do with Mars? (2)

HerrGlock (141750) | more than 13 years ago | (#298132)

Total ReKall has already been filmed, you should be hearing from their lawyers soon if they use the same ones as MasterCard.

DanH
Cav Pilot's Reference Page [cavalrypilot.com]

Re:The Kompany sells add-ons to thier GPL stuff (1)

Laplace (143876) | more than 13 years ago | (#298135)

I remember Visio starting out this way. When I was in high school I had a free (beer) copy of Visio. At the time I thought that it was the greatest app in the world. However, it came with very limited stencil sets. If you wanted more, you had to pay for them.

This was the pre-Microsoft Visio. I still miss it (8 years later!). Unfortunately, I couldn't compile Kvisio when I tried a few weeks ago. So I used Tgif instead, and it did everything that I wanted.

Re:No. (1)

Laplace (143876) | more than 13 years ago | (#298136)

I work in a split Windows/Linux company. I do all of my work under Linux. I'm more productive when I use it, and it's what my immediate boss wants me to use. I just sent a document out for review. My boss's boss aksed for the document in Word format. He had to settle for a pdf file, a text file, and png files. The receiver didn't have any problems with this.

When someone sends me a .doc file, I ask for it as a .pdf or a .txt file. and 9 out of 10 times this isn't a problem. I don't say "I can't read this so bugger off." I say "I can't read this, but let me tell you what I can read." It makes a world of difference.

Whining about how the world works won't make any positive impacts. Being an advocate for change involves changing the way you live. If everyone took your attitude, Linux would not exist in the first place (although BSD might have taken its place)

I have lived in a world without Microsoft for over 4 months now, and it hasn't made a significant impact on the ease of interacting with the outside world. The real world.

Kurse all KDEs!!! (1)

BitwizeGHC (145393) | more than 13 years ago | (#298137)

Swarming through the generations like lokusts...

Does the PIM manager sync with palm? (2)

evilned (146392) | more than 13 years ago | (#298138)

I switched from gnome to KDE soon after 2.0 came out. I've loved the switch (no hard feelings toward the Gnomish among you, its a good desktop too) but the one thing I miss is the intergration of the address book, the mail client, and the palm pilot. In KDE you have kpilot, which just basically works as a backup for your palm. I hope this Aethera program can intergrate better with my palm pilot than the current batch of kde programs can.

Re:Does the PIM manager sync with palm? (2)

evilned (146392) | more than 13 years ago | (#298139)

No, I think you misunderstood. I missed the palm functionality that was in Gnome. As in KDE doesnt have it. In fact Gnome had good integration even before I used evolution.

my thoughts... (2)

b0r1s (170449) | more than 13 years ago | (#298144)

I think this is a huge step forward for the linux/*bsd/unix community. The existance of another office suite makes *nix operating environments not only usable as a desktop, but realistic as a desktop. StarOffice is a great set of programs, but it was basically alone.

What excites me the most, however, is that it's available in Debian packages. Hopefully, this will start a precedent for software developers who want their product widely used: Make it available in at least three forms: rpm/tar.gz/deb, although a FreeBSD port would also be nice. I personally think that if more companies were willing to package their software in these easy to code, easy to use packages, more people would be willing to use them, thus advancing not only the company, but the linux community in general.

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#298145)

It's a troll. Why do all the GNU programs have to begin with a G? Gnome, Gnutella, Gunzip...

Out of curiosity (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#298146)

Does KOffice save to Word files? Can it open Word files? I haven't gotten a chance to play with it and would like to use it for my normal .doc files.

Also, anyone have a distro of Linux that installs KDE2 and its associated applications correctly on a laptop with the ATI Rage Mobility chipset? The best I could get is KDE 1 compatibility with RedHat 7.0.

good on Win? (1)

shokk (187512) | more than 13 years ago | (#298147)

Now if only I could compile Qt [trolltech.com] on my XFree/Cygwin [cygwin.com] setup I could get these working with KDE [kde.org] on my Windows box.

ReKall reminds me of FoxPro..... Debians? (1)

dzogchen (200579) | more than 13 years ago | (#298150)

I have used and developed with Foxpro / Visual Foxpro for many years and was wondering if something like it would be available on Linux. I had figured I would have to combine a number of different products (Python, PostgreSQL etc ) but also really liked FoxPro's development environment.

From the blurb it sounds like this is eerily similar to FoxPro - dbf format, SQL queries, usable with a different back-end etc.

I hope they have deb's Real Soon....

The Kompany sells add-ons to thier GPL stuff (1)

GlitchZ (205899) | more than 13 years ago | (#298152)

Which I think is a great business idea.

Kivio for example was written around the idea of pluggable stencil sets. The Kompany plans on selling a closed source(i.e. for money) GUI stencil builder and stencil sets as well as other utilites. One in the works for Kivio is a network scanner and diagram generator.

I think Kapital is completely closed source money make is 'cause well, there isn't really a way to sell add-on's to that type of thing.

Now KDE Studio Gold is an easy one. Take working GPL projects, throw it in one easy to open and install box after some testing and offer support ala Redhat.

The real wild card is the PIM/E-mail client. AFAIK its a GPL'd project, but I can't fihure out thier money making plan.

The rest of thier contributions have been faily strategic if you ask me. They needed a solid scripting langauge for thier money makers so they threw money (er, people) at python and made VeePee. The work they've given to KOffice will hopefully sell thier stencils.

Has anyone noticed... (1)

LowneWulf (210110) | more than 13 years ago | (#298153)

... that thekompany.com is brutally slow, and is normally slashdotted by the most minor of traffic?

Or is that just me?

Re:The problem with Linux suites (1)

kurioszyn (212894) | more than 13 years ago | (#298154)

"If we'd agree (fat change) on one format, it wouldn't matter what software you were using. "

Yeah, nice idea except that will never work in commercial world precisely because vendors WANT you to care which application you are using.

Re:Why doesn't ... (1)

kurioszyn (212894) | more than 13 years ago | (#298155)

Well, for one it would require constant reverse engineering.
Microsoft DOC format contains things that cannot be easily recreated in Unix world ( like com objects etc ...)
It is not that easy.

Already happened with StarOffice. (2)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 13 years ago | (#298156)

For a long while, StarOffice shipped with the retail versions of several distributions. I was introduced to StarOffice this way -- StarOffice 3.1 came with a retail Linux distribution I bought several years ago.


Problem is, people didn't like it.


Point: let the market decide. "De facto" standards usually emerge in the open marketplace, not when dictated by corporations. There just aren't any office suites, e-mail/PIM applications, etc. in the Linux world that are good enough yet to really get people going.


But it will happen. And when it does, Red Hat won't be causing it, but they will be making sure they include it because it's what the users want and it will sell units!

Re:No. (1)

rlwhite (219604) | more than 13 years ago | (#298158)

Don't expect such a schema coming from a group like W3C any time soon. If it's going to happen, it's gotta start with someone writing a schema, implementing it in a suite, and then pushing it to be a de facto standard. Not in the Microsoft style; it has to be open and easy to implement. It's gotta be "Here's our schema, use it."

With the XML parsers out there, like Apache's, there's a foundation to build on, and suite-makers can add XML editors and viewers in the process. HTML support could be consolidated into the functionality also.

Now I just want to see someone go out and actually do it instead of talking. I'd love to work on it myself, but I don't have much of a background to start it on my own.

Re:Why doesn't ... (1)

kol-chaim (220492) | more than 13 years ago | (#298159)

The MS file format is specific to features in Word.

Did you think about this at all before you posted? The format has little if anything to do with features in MSWord. Yes, there has to be a way to specify each feature, but it is ridiculous to think that that means we have to use the same format to specify those features. The heights of lunacy in the rest of your post flow directly from this unexamined premise.

In fact, the MS .doc format is hideous in design, and contributes most of the difficulty in creating converters.

It's really a good a idea to know what you're talking about before you make a fool of yourself. At least then you'll know why everyone is laughing at you.

Re:The problem with Linux suites (1)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 13 years ago | (#298162)

Why doesn't a major Linux distribution provider (like RedHat) specifically embrace an application suite, and ship it with their bundle? By creating such a de facto standard, much would be accomplished for interoperability and document sharing.
Mandrake ships with StarOffice, IIRC.

Re:No. (1)

droolfool (235314) | more than 13 years ago | (#298163)

Now, back to the the real world

In the real world almost everyone uses Microsoft Office. Now, let's suppose you only use Linux, and you work for a big company, where most of the workers send you Word Documents, PowerPoint presentations, etc. StarOffice sometimes gets lost and can't open it correctly (sometimes it doesn't even open :)).

So, if you NEED to open EVERY document or presentation and you CAN'T just say: "Hey, I don't use Windows, I can't read this", you WILL have to use Office. That's very sad, and I really hate it. But hey, it won't change so fast. MIcrosoft doesn't want any non-MS standard, they want to IMPOSE their standards. They don't even THINK about using some standardized format.


------------------------------------------------
You think Bill Gates is evil?

Re: I Koundn't Agree More (1)

A coward on a mouse (238331) | more than 13 years ago | (#298165)

Gee, gyou gnow, gyou're gright. Gthose gkde gtypes gjust gdon't ghave gmuch gcreativity gwhen git gcomes gto gnaming gtheir gapplications. Glet's gpoint gthat gout gat gevery gopportunity. Goh, gand gby gthe gway, gwould gyou glike gto gbuy ga gmonkey gtshirt?

Re:Outside the US, forget it.... (1)

A coward on a mouse (238331) | more than 13 years ago | (#298166)

Being based on the Internet and composed of developers from around the world, the Kompany has most likely already thought of this. The close association between the Kompany and the KDE community also suggests that internationalization issues have been a concern from the beginning; the KDE community are very proud of their support for some pretty obscure (globally) language and national communities.

If there is no i18n support currently, it will have to be offered relatively soon in order to satisfy the core values of the KDE project. There is also the fact that lack of decent i18n will make Kapital's closed-source license a real problem, both for the Kompany and for the KDE.

Given all of this, I think you're probably mistaken when you say that only big, all-closed-source-all-the-time US-based software companies can support non-US currencies in their financial products. Not everyone outside the US has internalized US-centrism to the extent some Canadians have.

Re:Goodbye OpenSource losers! (1)

diamondc (241058) | more than 13 years ago | (#298167)

and be stuck with shitty userland tools like Solaris tar grep and sed..a shitty vi, no emacs, and also with *gasp* CDE?! Do what I did and prepare to load LOTS of GNU software on that Sun box and put /usr/local first into your $PATH to make it as usuable as a GNU/Linux system is.

theKompany should GPL Kapital (1)

maveric149 (250323) | more than 13 years ago | (#298168)

As soon as they form enough agreements with financial institutions to provide online banking (ie downloading of transactions & electronic bill pay) they should GPL Kapital (at least under a business-friendly dual license scheme -- see NOTE at bottom)

Then in order to generate revenue, they could charge the same amount per month for the service of downloading transactions as Quicken does (US$3/month), along with whatever Quicken charges for e-payments.

To generate more necessary revenue, they could also tack on a one-time (or 5-year renewable)'membership-fee' of 40-80 bucks too. That way, the people over at theKompany can eat, and the Stallmamites would hopefully be satisfied with the GPL licsensing.

So, if you didn't care about online banking at all, then you would still be able to use Kapital in all its glory for free. And since it would be GPL'd then it might find its way into every distribution. That would benefit the LInux community by providing a truely useable, KDE integrated finanacial program. And it would benefit theKompany because its soon to be flagship product (and major money maker) would be installed across the Linux /BSD world.

But anyway.... I am the last person to dictate how someone should license the fruits of their coding efforts. Kapital belongs to theKompany and what I have written is simply a suggestion on how to make its product that much better.

NOTE: The GPL would allow anyone to replicate the program, but this replication and use of code does not form the types of financial institution agrements necessary to set up a network -- also, small closed-sourced parts of Kapital would have to be downloaded and installed into the program upon service activation, so that Kapital can talk with theKompanies network (that's where the business-friendly dual-licensing comes in).

One other thing: the name of the product, "Kapital" should become a registered trademark of theKompany. In that way, they can exert their influence on anything that is called "Kapital" if the need arrises (Linus reserves this same right with his trademarking of "LInux")

Re:No. (2)

Petrophile (253809) | more than 13 years ago | (#298169)

XML is only an opportunity for a solution.

Someone needs to define a standard schema for wordprocessing docs (Should be XHTML + CSS1/2/3, actually), spreadsheets, and presentation software. Then everyone needs to implement it.

Frankly, with 39 office app alternatives on the market for Unix, having an "open" format (XML or no) just doesn't cut it.

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (3)

Petrophile (253809) | more than 13 years ago | (#298170)

I'm not usually a troll-biter, but there is a valid point there. There's a long tradition in the US for the Ku Klux Klan to use "K" spelling as a code-word for something they endorse. (Posters for "Kalvin Kooledge" used to be fairly common, for example. Check eBay for more.).

However, since the KDE folks are european, I wouldn't expect them to know this.

I don't think it's that important, but there should be some sensitivty there. Just as with folks who insist on using the word "cracker", which is a very common racial slur in parts of the US.

what does this mean (1)

IanA (260196) | more than 13 years ago | (#298171)

It has one of the nicest and easiest GUI's I've been played with.
In mid sentence it seems as if you've drifted off to the new Yahoo pr0n. Damnit, stay focused!

Re:Mmore applications with the obligatory "K"? (1)

IanA (260196) | more than 13 years ago | (#298172)

Of course KDE does not have KKK agenda. If you look at kde developers photo gallery [kde.org] you'll see one of the core KDE developers is named Sirtaj Singh Kang and is from India. Obviously, the KKK hates all non-caucasians including Indians, and one of the KDE developers is an Indian.

Re:Thank you, theKompany! (1)

nicestepauthor (307146) | more than 13 years ago | (#298173)

I agree. Linux has needed a decent answer to MS Access for a long time (so has the Mac for that matter), and this looks like it will have the good points of MS Access without the bad (ActiveX controls, dealing with the Windows registry, bloat, etc.) The ability to plug in various back end databases (which Access could also do, using ODBC)is a big plus. I'm really looking forward to using this, although I don't count myself a big fan of KDE.

Re:Well, there goes... (1)

robert-porter (309405) | more than 13 years ago | (#298174)

Or you can get GNUcash for free.

Re:Out of curiosity (1)

WolfDeusEx (310788) | more than 13 years ago | (#298175)

The present version of KWord(Part of Koffice) does read MsWord File sort of. As in not very well. Though this is ment to change in the next version of KOffice, that will be released near the same time as KDE 2.2, Should read them a lot better. I am not sure whether it will be aable to save to this format. There has been quite a lot of discussion of filters for Koffice on the mailing lists so hopefully there should be lots of improvements in this area.

Red Carpet will be free (2)

assbarn (313572) | more than 13 years ago | (#298176)

And anyway, even Ximian isn't built on a totaly free model. Like Ezel and their services offering, they're going to start charging for use of the RedCarpet updater once it goes stable.

This simply isn't true. The Red Carpet service itself will always be free, as will updates to your distribution and Ximian GNOME. The revenue in Red Carpet will be in offering for pay subscriptions to channels or for sale downloads.

You are right about one thing, however. Ximian isn't built on a totally free model. We're a for-profit company, so we need to generate revenue from somewhere. All of our software is free, however.


-----

Re:Goodbye OpenSource losers! (1)

Trisk (314745) | more than 13 years ago | (#298177)

Btw, I use KDE as my desktop of choice in Solaris.

--

Re:So much power on one company... (2)

Trisk (314745) | more than 13 years ago | (#298178)

Actually, while theKompany.com has contributed significant applications to the KDE family, it is a relatively new company that was only incorporated last year, and in fact does not back the majority of KDE development.
KDE's development is driven by the developers themselves and is primarily independant of theKompany.com.

I'm part of the KDE community; I do some development work for KDE (specifically, I've contributed to the KWebStat application), and am involved in the KDE Zine [kde.org] project, so I have reason believe that my views on this should be more or less accurate.

--

Re:ph33r my flamebait!! (1)

efyouseekay (324050) | more than 13 years ago | (#298182)

i thizink its guh-nome but i could be miztaken.

The problem with Linux suites (3)

s20451 (410424) | more than 13 years ago | (#298184)

The problem with Linux suites is that there's no lack of them in the marketplace, and none of them is in any danger of becoming a standard; users just install whatever suite they think is neat, which is an obstacle to interoperability.

Conversely, the (perhaps only?) good thing about MS Office is that any computer with Windows is likely to also have Office, so you can edit/display/transmit your files to virtually any Windows user. The most compelling example of this that I can think of is PowerPoint; if I need show someone my presentation at short notice and don't have my laptop handy, I can borrow someone else's, as long as they have Office. I had high hopes that Corel's suite for Linux would address this when it came out, but that seems to have died the death.

Why doesn't a major Linux distribution provider (like RedHat) specifically embrace an application suite, and ship it with their bundle? By creating such a de facto standard, much would be accomplished for interoperability and document sharing.

Outside the US, forget it.... (1)

nilstar (412094) | more than 13 years ago | (#298185)

If you are outside the US, companies like Microsft and Intuit may support your currency, stock exchange and the infinitesimal nuances of your system.... but how can this company possibly compete? or offer anything of value to nonUS customers?

For example Quicken Canadian edition and MS Money Canadian edition are two great products... and should run just fine on VMWare.

So... (1)

Eustis Burbank (415579) | more than 13 years ago | (#298186)

when is their next product, "Avada Kedavra", going to be available?

$uper Linux (1)

powerlinekid (442532) | more than 13 years ago | (#298187)

Linux has really come a long way (bsd too, anything that runs KDE... don't wanna offend anyone)... to the point where it is becoming almost indistinguishable from windows. Until recently, what was it that made windows superior (frankly people, we can go on forever about linux being better than windows but more people still use windows) was the fact that it played games and contained home/office application packages that squashed damn near everything else. Now with these new packages, it seems that maybe KDE/Linux may finally be able to put linux a step closer from become THE superior operating system of the future.

Re:So much power on one company... (1)

fetto (442546) | more than 13 years ago | (#298189)

Beg to differ, lots of companies support KDE.
TrollTech,Suse,Mandrake,Caldera,Corel?, and some more i cant remember.
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