×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Starting Next Year, Brazil Wants To Track All Cars Electronically

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the we-know-you-weren't-stuck-in-traffic dept.

Government 178

New submitter juliohm writes "As of January, Brazil intends to put into action a new system that will track vehicles of all kinds via radio frequency chips. It will take a few years to accomplish, but authorities will eventually require all vehicles to have an electronic chip installed, which will match every car to its rightful owner. The chip will send the car's identification to antennas on highways and streets, soon to be spread all over the country. Eventually, it will be illegal to own a car without one. Besides real time monitoring of traffic conditions, authorities will be able to integrate all kinds of services, such as traffic tickets, licensing and annual taxes, automatic toll charge, and much more. Benefits also include more security, since the system will make it harder for thieves to run far away with stolen vehicles, much less leave the country with one."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

178 comments

The big brother society (5, Insightful)

ickleberry (864871) | about a year and a half ago | (#41543843)

Marches on steady. Unstoppable and with an insatiable appetite for new technology

Re:The big brother society (5, Insightful)

wierd_w (1375923) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544147)

And we, the technicians, geeks, engineers, and software architects of the world, greedily line up to offer suggestions on how best to feed that pernicious appetite out of either being forced into it simply to have food to eat, or for fame and fortune.

The result is the same. We make the very chains they enslave us with, and happily forge ever more diabolical pleasures to satisfy big brother.

Who made DRM? It wasn't a media executive. It was somebody in a cubicle. Think about that.

Re:The big brother society (4, Informative)

PRMan (959735) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544385)

I once told my boss that I would quit if he made me work on a spam engine. He finally gave the product to some of my co-workers, who gladly did it... :-(

Re:The big brother society (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544849)

Kudos. That's a surprisingly ethical stand for a modern Christian to take.

Re:The big brother society (2)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544515)

Its a job description, not a moral code. Of course all sorts of people are going to get involved. Techies, engineers, geeks and scientists designed gas chambers. Quite a lot of the blame lies with the charismatic sociopaths who convinced them this was a good idea, aka politicians and CEOs - in other words if it wasn't for the talking heads at the top, the techies probably wouldn't have come up with this stuff of their own accord.

Re:The big brother society (2)

wierd_w (1375923) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544533)

I disagree. "Spam" is very much a grassroots tech crime sector. It is very mature now, but it wasn't in the early 90s when it first came into the world.

All that is needed are people with the skills, a person who wants the service, and money changing hands.

Both the person accepting the money to do the deed, and the person giving the money for the service are culpable.

Re:The big brother society (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41545425)

That the guys on top of the pyramid are to blame is certain, but so are the hands that execute their orders. There's enough blame for everyone, no need to exclude anyone from it just because they sell themselves for less.

Re:The big brother society (2)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544775)

If it is possible, someone will make it. It might as well be us. In the US license plate readers, accomplish the same (though they are not that prevalent, yet(read, not that cheap yet)).
 
What we really need is, for people to put pressure on govt to pass privacy laws. I would be fine with this idea, if the data is destroyed after a day or so. To store it beyond a day, you need a warrant signed by judge.

Re:The big brother society (4, Interesting)

wierd_w (1375923) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545059)

I would rather see us do what doctors in ancient greece did.

Make an oath not to willfully cause harm, and internally enforce it. Call it whatever, but we need some form of morality in our profession, and willfully creating code we KNOW to be malicious is clearly immoral, regardless of what moral compas you choose to employ.

Simple things, like "I will not create mass mailers for commercial uses", "I will not create personally identifiable tracking systems of any sort.", "I will not create nor enforce systems to hinder political speech of any kind.", "I will not willfully penetrate another computer system without permission, and will not create tools to do so either.", "I will not willingly install backdoors for spying, monitoring, or sabotage, for any agency, in any software or systems I create.", etc.

It doesn't need to be religious, like 'i will only make open code' or anything. Just things we can unilaterally agree are clear misuses of technology. Kinda like doctors refusing to create bioweapons. That kind of thing.

Re:The big brother society (2)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545131)

I am not sure how expect these to work. Most mass mailers I have seen were for legitimate use. They accept a list of email addresses (very often in excel format) and send an email to all of them. The mass mailer application cannot differentiate between legitimately obtained email address and illegitimately obtained ones. The same with tracking systems, there are legitimate uses for tracking. Every tracking system was created for legitimate use (gathering information for targeted advertisements is legitimate in my opinion). Again any tool to penetrate computer systems were created for pen testing. The authors cannot prevent the tools from being used against unauthorized systems. Backdoor/spying/monitoring can have legitimate reasons too.
 
BTW if you want anything of this sort to work, you need to create a licensing authority that grants licenses after the oath, and kick you off if you violate it.

Re:The big brother society (2)

wierd_w (1375923) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545231)

Agreed; just like there are legitimate reasons to create monster viruses (biological) for medical research.

In this case, the oath is to assert "I will not willfully cause harm", where "willfully" is the operant conditional.

Likewise, if you are compelled by the law to include a back door, you aren't strictly speaking doing it of your own free will, but are instead being compelled to do so by your government, etc.

I agree about the regulatory licensing group. It adds beurocracy, which is deplorable, but for the same basic reasons we license doctors, we really should license professional programmers.

(In ancient greece, they had problems with corrupt doctors killing patients for money, selling poisons to known poisoners, and a host of other unscrupulous activities, which is exactly why the hipocratic oath came into being.)

Re:The big brother society (2)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545785)

Agreed; just like there are legitimate reasons to create monster viruses (biological) for medical research.

Unlike biological viruses, which are often never released to the public, the tool I release (be it a DDoS tool or mass mailer tool), can be used very easily for nefarious purposes. If most of my genuine tools can be used for nefarious purposes, then what is the point of the oath?

Re:The big brother society (2)

gmanterry (1141623) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545299)

If it is possible, someone will make it. It might as well be us. In the US license plate readers, accomplish the same (though they are not that prevalent, yet(read, not that cheap yet)).

What we really need is, for people to put pressure on govt to pass privacy laws. I would be fine with this idea, if the data is destroyed after a day or so. To store it beyond a day, you need a warrant signed by judge.

Aha, but this is the next step. It would be easy to swap plates with some other vehicle in a garage or parking lot. However it probably is not nearly as easy to swap the chip in your car. Also you could smear mud on a plate rendering it unreadable. My brother used to do that when he was 14 and wanted to drive his unlicensed car. Out of date plate, back then they issued new ones every year with alternating colors, with mud or snow covering the year. N.Y. in the 50s.

We already have this here in the US. (4, Interesting)

Ungrounded Lightning (62228) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544379)

The big brother society ... Marches on steady. Unstoppable and with an insatiable appetite for new technology

It also deploys very quietly these days. It's already up and running before people notice it's there.

We already HAVE four federally mandated car trackers on all passenger cars (along with most other vehicles) since 2007.

It's called a "Tire Pressure Monitoring System". It works by having (typically) a lithium-cell powered device in the valve stem on each wheel that transmits the tire pressure information along with a unique serial number (so your dashboard computer doesn't get confused by nearby cars). These can also be read by loops in the road.

Re:We already have this here in the US. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544857)

These can also be read by loops in the road.

At intersections, sure, but not while traveling. TPMS transmission power and data rate aren't anywhere near adequate for that.

Re:We already have this here in the US. (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41545001)

They're also not registered to the car.

Re:We already have this here in the US. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41545745)

TPMS in combination with visual numberplate recognition can register the car. You are insufficiently paranoid.

Re:The big brother society (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544657)

...security...liberty...deserves...neither...

Well, you know the rest.

Re:The big brother society (0)

M. Baranczak (726671) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545461)

Remember in "The Right Stuff", when the nurse was telling the astronauts that they had to provide a sperm sample for testing? There was no sane reason why NASA needed that information. They were just collecting it because they could. Because someone said, "well, we've got just about everything on these boys... did we miss anything?"

I was reminded of that scene not too long ago, when applying for a job in the... how shall I put this politely... "financial sector". And again just now, when I read this thing.

Re:The big brother society (4, Insightful)

Obfuscant (592200) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545553)

There was no sane reason why NASA needed that information. They were just collecting it because they could. Because someone said, "well, we've got just about everything on these boys...

I can think of one very good reason. To have a control sample to test against when they get back, to see what effects the low gravity/increased radiation had on them. Who knows, there might be gravity related issues with reproductive processes just like there are for bone and muscles.

Or for later use, in case there was a radiation accident that would render them incapable of having children.

Re:The big brother society (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545573)

Marches on steady. Unstoppable and with an insatiable appetite for new technology

One might even go so far as to say that we've seen this movie [imdb.com] [Brazil (1985)] before.

Soon to be hacked (4, Insightful)

concealment (2447304) | about a year and a half ago | (#41543851)

I clone your MAC address, I decrypt your Wi-Fi, and I own your basic electronics already.

Apply these relative basic skills and what do you have? A high-tech integrated system which can actually be used to conceal the identity of a vehicle behind a false identity, and charge up all sorts of services to the legitimate owner besides.

Re:Soon to be hacked (1)

i_ate_god (899684) | about a year and a half ago | (#41543871)

I didn't RTFA, but... it seems to me that there is no wifi involved.

It's just radio frequencies. this seems a lot harder to me.

Re:Soon to be hacked (1)

anubi (640541) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544341)

I think your parent was pointing out that this technology can also be "weaponized", so as to be used to cause an innocent target to have incriminating evidence logged against them.

With the technological advances we have today, "Reddy Kilowatt" is being pressed into service as a very inexpensive 24/7 security watchman serving the interests of whoever instantiated him. If I am going to willingly have one of these watchmen instantiated in my vehicle, I also want it to summon armed enforcement in the event my vehicle is being violated or summon help in the event of a road emergency, from flat tire to hijacking..

Done right, this technology will make car theft a thing of the past. Being I am getting older myself ( and saw my neighbor succumb to a heart attack away from home ), it would be comforting to me to have a "emergency" button in my car that would hail law enforcement for me in the event I needed them.

Re:Soon to be hacked (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544477)

Done right, this technology will make car theft a thing of the past. Being I am getting older myself ( and saw my neighbor succumb to a heart attack away from home ), it would be comforting to me to have a "emergency" button in my car that would hail law enforcement for me in the event I needed them.

GM already has that; it's called On Star: https://www.onstar.com/web/portal/landing [onstar.com]

Re:Soon to be hacked (4, Insightful)

epyT-R (613989) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544619)

Fine. Get that service if you want. That doesn't mean it should be shoved down our throats by the state under the guise of safety. Would you want a policeman in your house 24/7 to 'monitor' your 'well being'? No? Why not?

Re:Soon to be hacked (2)

marcosdumay (620877) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545085)

That's excactly the rationale being used to sell the idea. That it will reduce car stealing, because the police will be able to follow a thief anywhere.

Also, it can be turned off.

I'm against the idea, but not by fear of the Big Brother, It is just that this is an explicit ploy to interfere in a market, taking my money at the gun-point, and sending it to a few choosen ones (the companies making tracking devices).

Anyway, it will probably do what is advertised, and reduce car stealing. It will send the criminals that today steal cars into other specialities, like kidnapings...

Re:Soon to be hacked (1)

klingers48 (968406) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545159)

That's Ok... The way it's all going we're only a couple of years away from having our own mandatory tracking chips.

Re:Soon to be hacked (1)

shiftless (410350) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545715)

It's just radio frequencies. this seems a lot harder to me.

I'm a satellite communications engineer. Doesn't seem hard to me at all.

When software-defined radio becomes commonplace....it will be even more trivial.

Re:Soon to be hacked (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41543915)

Why not just disable or destroy the chip in the vehicle that you steal???

Re:Soon to be hacked (1)

Qzukk (229616) | about a year and a half ago | (#41543949)

Or just steal someone else's chip. Less fishy than driving around in an "invisible" car.

Re:Soon to be hacked (1)

epp_b (944299) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544325)

Right up until the point where they require licensing for any devices with this capability (or just outright ban them), no doubt ignoring the vast array of unintended consequences.

Re:Soon to be hacked (3, Insightful)

Tom (822) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544375)

You overestimate yourself and underestimate your enemies.

Sure you can hack some home WiFi. Your enemy is one guy, statistically speaking most likely someone with just enough computer know-how to reinstall windows.

Going up against a national system is a different game. Not just a different league, a different game. If they don't make the MPAA-stupidity-mistake (invent your own crypto and don't let anyone outside test it for weaknesses) or the typical software-company-mistake (do thinks cheap and fast so you have a great time-to-market, facepalm the day before release and say "oh btw, has anyone thought about security?"), or some other obvious ones, this can be very, very solid.

Crack NSA's SELinux to get a feel for what you're up against. Sure it's possible. All you need is either a serious mistake in the policy configuration, or a ring-0 exploit.

Yes, everything can be hacked. Don't expect to be the one doing it, though. If they do this properly, then a hundred other people have thought of your approach before, during the design, development and testing phases. Maybe they've put in an easter egg for you to find, to reward the effort.

Re:Soon to be hacked (1)

PlusFiveTroll (754249) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544551)

Give me a running SELinux box with your data on it and it's likely I'll hack it.

The issue here is they are then handing it to the end user, possibly the criminal end user who can then poke and prod at it endlessly. The other issue is the 'state' doesn't have limitless money in making it work, see:'the lowest bidder'.

It's likely some group of researchers will find a way to break it quickly, and publish a paper on it. A group of technically inclined 'criminals' will turn the research in to a sell-able kit. Then actual criminals with $1500 (or whatever) will buy one. See credit card skimmers for an example.

Re:Soon to be hacked (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544563)

decrypt your Wi-Fi

You can recover my AES encrypted traffic? What does Schneier think of your attack?

Or maybe your just full of shit.

Re:Soon to be hacked (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41545405)

He means WEP you smug fucktard. The point is that a lot of electronics inside your house may have internet connectivity, and that insecure setups can make it quite easy for a hacker to take control of many devices by hacking one vulnerability. Apply this to the gadgets in your car (and those outside the car that monitor it), and you could do a lot of damage to someone by giving misleading data to these devices.

Don't let common sense and reading comprehension get in the way of going passive-aggressive and defending your security skills though.

Re:Soon to be hacked (1)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544959)

It's either tragic or funny, but Brazil's traffic dept. doesn't have the first clue about IT security. They use ye olde Windows and don't even bother configuring anything. Which means every user is an administrator and autorun is enabled. Keylogging is a real problem, but I suspect no one wants to secure anything properly because "oh, all those traffic tickets disappeared? I guess someone broke into my system again" is a great excuse for when you want to bail a friend or make a few extra bucks.

Re:Soon to be hacked (1)

Dan667 (564390) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544975)

for every successful SELinux there are hundreds if not thousands of tsa. I think his chances are actually pretty good.

Let me guess... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41543899)

.... It will take under 1 week for the organized crime elements to fully understand and then implement effective countermeasures.

Now, back at square 1, enjoy your 3mph over the limit speeding tix!

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544583)

It wouldn't be organized crime. More like likely it would be like DX.com and the likes selling car RFID jammers along with their cell phone, GPS jammers.

Thank you, Big Brother! (3, Funny)

Bill Dimm (463823) | about a year and a half ago | (#41543909)

authorities will be able to integrate all kinds of services, such as traffic tickets

Remember the bad old days, when police inconvenienced you with long stops while they wrote you a ticket just when you most urgently needed to get somewhere? Well, those days are gone! Now, a pile of tickets will arrive in your mail each day without you ever being held up by those pesky police. We hope you appreciate the convenience we've brought you while you're speeding off to your destination.

Sincerely,
    Big Brother

Re:Thank you, Big Brother! (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545113)

Hello, time traveler.

It looks like you come from the middle XX century. We already have that automatic stream of tickets you are speaking of. Today we get them from cameras... But everybody knows it is just a matter of time untill we get a more aware system that tracks you everywhere.

Anyway, computers are still quite stupid. The people that want to decieve those systems do. That too will change with time, and it will probably both remove the problem of unreliable humans operating cars, and create much bigger problems for us to care about.

1984. Not just a book or conspiracy theory anymore (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41543939)

But real-life reality.

Re:1984. Not just a book or conspiracy theory anym (1)

Githaron (2462596) | about a year and a half ago | (#41543995)

I guess he should have written the book in Portuguese.

Re:1984. Not just a book or conspiracy theory anym (1)

shiftless (410350) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545731)

Good luck pointing it out to anyone and getting them to believe it. Best of luck trying to point out the parallels between today's America and yesterday's Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, etc. People just roll their eyes and go back to cheering about the DRUG ADDICT mom who was arrested and her kids taken by the State, after the standard Fifteen Minutes of Hate directed at the Other Party on TV.

Single point of failure (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41543985)

Big brother concerns aside, I'd be worried about becoming too reliant on the new tracking system.

Criminals could figure out how to jam the chip with a small handheld device. This would make their car vanish off the grid, making it hard to find or chase by police departments that have grown reliant on the tracking system. It might end up being easier to steal a car or hide one's illicit activities.

What if your car's tracking chip malfunctions? Would you now be the owner of a 'ghost' car that you can't get serviced, registered, insured, etc? Would you get lost in some chicken-and-egg bureaucracy making it impossible to use your car lawfully? "Sorry sir. You can't get a chip without a car, and it's not a car without a chip" (Even today, try dealing with a car that's had its VIN plates defaced/removed/tampered with. The car becomes useless because everyone assumes it's stolen or an illegally repaired junker)

Awesome! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41543989)

I can't wait until they start sharing this data with private companies for direct advertising and what not.

I will replace these chips for you for a small fee (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544013)

Act now prices will be going up soon.
What a bunch of retards.
Hurry up American politicians you know you want it too. Just as soon as someone fills your pockets to support it.

Drawbacks? Obviously none ... (1)

Ravensfire (209905) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544019)

Nope! No drawbacks here. Why would the headline be written in anything other than pure, positive spin? Especially since this was probably posted from a chipped car with big brother watching quite carefully for any accidents, traffic or wrong thoughts.

-- Ravensfire

There are no Wrong Thoughts (1)

handy_vandal (606174) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544183)

Perhaps you are thinking of ungood thoughts ... or maybe even plus-ungood thoughts.

By the way: is your Newspeak [wikipedia.org] license valid, citizen? or do I need to report you?

On the bright side... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544021)

The one good thing about this scheme is that it depends on Brasil being able to sustain some sort of massive public infrastructure for more than three years, which means it'll probably fail horribly.

Re:On the bright side... (3, Interesting)

Githaron (2462596) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544127)

It would fail outside the major cities at least. The cops over there can't even keep people from hacking into the water and power system. I went to one place where there was a literal "wrong side of the tracks". On one side, everyone paid for their utilities. On the other side, water was spraying out of pipes duck taped into each other in all directions and extension cords were running under the tracks. I am curious, are you Brazilian? You spelled Brazil with an "s" instead of a "z" like Brazilians.

Law and Disorder in Brazil (1)

handy_vandal (606174) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544233)

The police in Sao Paolo have bigger problems than policing the citizenry:

... more than 70 police officers killed this year in São Paulo, Brazil’s largest and most powerful state. The sharp increase in murders of police officers, up almost 40 percent since last year, has raised fears of a resurgence of the First Capital Command, a criminal organization that carried out a harrowing four-day uprising here in 2006 during which almost 200 people were killed.

Alarm Grows in São Paulo as More Police Officers Are Murdered [nytimes.com]

We be jammin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544025)

Will take on new meaning in brazil. Timetk take some stock in radio jammers

wont stop thierves; crooks (4, Interesting)

wierd_w (1375923) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544033)

The "must be tagged" law will not prevent theft, and will not prevent other criminal activities.

It does not prevent the criminals from disabling a tag, altering a tag, or replacing the tag.

What the tracking system ultimately tracks are the tags. Not the vehicles.

As such, removing the tags, and then transporting the vehicle under a different but "valid" tag would make an effective means of breaking this system.

The real benefit to law enforcement/government is *NOT* combating criminals, it is tracking law abidding citizens.

I would expect catch-22s like "we show your vehicle at the scene" in one case and "you can't prove that isn't a fake transponder being used to put you on the other side of the country" in another, with the difference being the desire of the prosecutor.

(Eg, "iron-clad, irrefutable!" When used to show guilt, and "suspect, clearly a technological fabrication!" When used to assert innocense.)

If anything, this masure will spawn a new form of criminal activity, buying, selling, and provisioning counterfiet/shady transponders.

Re:wont stop thierves; crooks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544429)

Until if you drive without a tag, it will alert the police that it could be a stolen car.

It would be better if it acted like Find My Phone from Apple. And if the car can be remotely disabled. I think On-Star does this too.

Re:wont stop thierves; crooks (2)

wierd_w (1375923) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544475)

Low tech solution for organized car theft:

Get a car dealership "on the take."
The used car guy gets cash under the table to 'lose' some activated transponders, and wait before reporting them "stolen".

The car thieves remove and disable the currently installed transponder, and install the "shady" one from the used car accomplice.

They drive away with the stolen car, and offload it in say, argentina. The monitoring system records it as a valid transponder. It doesn't know the difference, because it tracks transponders, and not vehicles.

36 hours later, the car dealer reports the transponders "stolen".

By then the car could be in any number of countries.

Re:wont stop thierves; crooks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544763)

So what you're saying is that this is a job creation solution.

Re:wont stop thierves; crooks (2)

marcosdumay (620877) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545125)

The intent is neither to combat criminals, nor to track citizens. (If you think the Brazilian government is competent enough to track citizens, you must check your sanity again.)

The intent of this law is to make a few corporations rich.

Haha I've seen this movie (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544061)

They called it "Brazil" too.

Fix your old car instead of buying new ones (2)

SpaceManFlip (2720507) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544191)

Does everyone have to buy a new car equipped with all the integrated RFID/transponder gadgetry to participate in the mandated tracking system?
This type of thing, and the upcoming "black box" additions to new cars sold in the USA, are perfect examples of why you should not buy new cars frequently. Instead, repair whatever goes wrong with your current/old car and stop being so damn wasteful. Pick a good car that you like and keep it going.
I learned how to do almost all of my own car repair for this purpose. It's not nearly as hard as understanding C programming or being fluent with the Linux shell. You just have to man up and get your hands dirty. The rewards come as bountiful savings of money and inability to comply with new-vehicle tracking mandates.

Re:Fix your old car instead of buying new ones (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544219)

I prefer to keep the skin on my knuckles.

Re:Fix your old car instead of buying new ones (1)

M. Baranczak (726671) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545481)

It's not nearly as hard as understanding C programming or being fluent with the Linux shell. You just have to man up and get your hands dirty.

And if you need an impact wrench or a valve spring compressor, you can't just download an open-source copy.

Re:Fix your old car instead of buying new ones (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545603)

inability to comply with new-vehicle tracking mandates.

What's to prevent them, some years down the line if not immediately, from requiring that you retrofit your existing older car to have this device installed ala LoJack or satellite radio or any number of other devices that owners currently voluntarily install into their older vehicles?

"Services" (2)

epp_b (944299) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544197)

Traffic tickets are not a "service". A service implies that you actually get something useful in return.

Re:"Services" (1)

wierd_w (1375923) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544259)

Devil's advocate pedantry:

It could be argued that pervasive and panopticon-like enforcement of traffic regulations could result in a fantastically superior motorist environment, where people speeding; performing rolling stops; and performing dangerous lane changes become a thing of the past due to automated creation of moving violations.

*reality:*

The problem however, will be with technological erros showing people speeding when they really aren't from multipath reflections, people being charged for driving without transponders illegally from having the tags fail due to water intrusions into the antenna, and a whole host of other things that would fall under the culpability of government to fix, but never will be, due to lack of incentive or interest.

Re:"Services" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544411)

If you ever saw how they drive down there, you would realize that any system that tried to track all traffic violations would probably crash under the load.

Re:"Services" (1)

thogard (43403) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545295)

Victoria Australia has been doing this experiment with a 3% tolerance on speeding. The result is accident counts have not decreased since they started it, congestion has gone up , the deaths per km driven is increasing and the deaths per hour while traveling are also going up. The increased congestion seems to be killing pedestrians at a might higher rate too. We are not seeing any of the advantages that newer cars should be providing to the accident rates. The roads are moving fewer people and injuring more of them. If they didn't change the way they count the victims, all stats would be significantly worse but they are moving more medical related crashes out of the crash stats.

Re:"Services" (1)

wierd_w (1375923) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545757)

It sounds like they need to isolate traffic, and increase the speed limit.

(Eg, isolate pedestrians from motorvehicle routes, with catwalks instead of crosswalks, install entry and exit lanes beside highways, and increase highway speeds.)

See for example, the East Kellog (US 400) expansion in wichita kansas on google streetview. You will notice that there is an isolated entry/exit lane that fascilitates getting into the sidstreets, and a completely uninhibited arterial flow after that on the US 400 highway. Cross streets literally either go over or under 400, as do pedestrian sidewalks.

In some places, especially near schools, you will see dedicated catwalks for pedestrians.

Re:"Services" (5, Insightful)

Tom (822) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544415)

Traffic tickets are not a "service". A service implies that you actually get something useful in return.

You assume that the service always has to be towards the subject. It doesn't. The police performs a service when it arrests a burglar, but the service isn't towards the burglar, it is towards the house owner. Traffic tickets are a service to the other participants of traffic, because by punishing undesireable behaviour they limit it.

Yeah, we can talk all night about how reality sometimes differs and how speeding traps are often put not at the spots where speeding is dangerous but where they'll catch the most people, etc. etc. - that's implementation details.

Re:"Services" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544449)

I don't like this trend of sacrificing freedom for security... *sigh*

Re:"Services" (2)

artor3 (1344997) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545245)

There is no freedom without (some) security. Obviously, the pendulum is currently swinging too far to one side, and we need to correct that, but the opposite extreme is also to be avoided. If you spend every waking hour scrounging for food in a jungle while praying not to get caught by a roving warband, you are most certainly not free.

Remember Roosevelt's four freedoms: Freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom from want, and freedom from fear. His particular statement of them was overly narrow (e.g. his freedom from fear applied only to fear of war), and the second can probably be rolled into the first, but the concept is sound, and much more useful than the vague "life, liberty, pursuit of happiness/money".

Ticketing bad drivers helps to free the rest of us from fear of being injured or killed on the roads, without excessive punishment for the offenders. That's a net gain. Tracking everyone's every move would free us from that fear of bad drivers even more... while simultaneously giving us reason to fear the government, not to mention costing a fortune (paid for by taxes), thus hurting our freedom from want. That's a pretty clear net loss.

Re:"Services" (2)

epyT-R (613989) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544821)

yeah.. details that make it less about safety and more about oppressive control and profit.

Re:"Services" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41545315)

The rule is five "etc." in a row. Stopping at two is just stupid.

Re:"Services" (2)

Mitreya (579078) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545445)

Traffic tickets are a service to the other participants of traffic, because by punishing undesireable behaviour they limit it. ... speeding traps are often put not at the spots where speeding is dangerous but where they'll catch the most people

I think you may have contradicted yourself there.

Punishing undesirable behavior would require targeting the "unsafe" places. That's not really an "implementation detail", that hijacking the original/stated purpose (keeping highways safe) and rerouting it to the new purpose (making money for the local municipality).

Also, I am pretty sure that "unsafe" speeds are mostly relative. Someone going +30miles with traffic is nowhere near as dangerous as a person weaving around/passing at +15miles. So "implementation details" make a difference in what the practice actually achieves.

All kinds of services (2)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544305)

authorities will be able to integrate all kinds of services, such as traffic tickets, licensing and annual taxes, automatic toll charge, and much more.

Such as keeping track of who attends opposition political meetings and making sure that they do not get government contracts (and do get extra visits from the police).

Great thing for us in Brazil (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544335)

Really, our traffic is terrible in most cities. Anything that can help to make it better is a good thing.

Yeah, privacy is a concern, i hope they make it in a way that it won't be abused. But considering the total lack of respect brazilian motorists have in traffic this will help a lot. We have here a lot of fatal accidents with pedestrians and cyclists that the motorist simply just run away and no one sees who it was, with a system like this it'll be possible to get a list of suspects very easily in this kind of situation, motorists simply won't run away when they know they can be tracked.

The range of the signal is just 5 meters, and to install it'll cost only R$5,00 something like U$2,50. If the rang was big i would love to have it on my bike also, i would put it glue inside the frame, no way to remove it into the street.

Re:Great thing for us in Brazil (2)

epyT-R (613989) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544851)

Anything that can help to make it better is a good thing.

Anything? really? How about all traffic violations punished with the death penalty? No? Why not?

Yeah, privacy is a concern, i hope they make it in a way that it won't be abused.

Yes because even without the electronics, governments have historically respected liberty, freedom, and due process when using the information gathered from monitoring policies.. What kind of crack are you smoking?

The range of the signal is just 5 meters,

Radio doesn't work like that.

If the rang was big i would love to have it on my bike also, i would put it glue inside the frame, no way to remove it into the street.

so, the abuse of your fellow citizens by your government is a-ok as long as the government protects your bike for you? You selfish twat. I hope you're not like most brazillians..

Re:Great thing for us in Brazil (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544883)

Anything that can help to make it better is a good thing.

Anything? really? How about all traffic violations punished with the death penalty? No? Why not?

Yeah, privacy is a concern, i hope they make it in a way that it won't be abused.

Yes because even without the electronics, governments have historically respected liberty, freedom, and due process when using the information gathered from monitoring policies.. What kind of crack are you smoking?

The range of the signal is just 5 meters,

Radio doesn't work like that.

If the rang was big i would love to have it on my bike also, i would put it glue inside the frame, no way to remove it into the street.

so, the abuse of your fellow citizens by your government is a-ok as long as the government protects your bike for you? You selfish twat. I hope you're not like most brazillians..

Unfortunately he is.

They cannot lawfully do this. (1)

j0ebaker (304465) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544389)

All one has to do is to make the case that their life would be endangered by being a whistle blower to government corruption if the government knew where their vehicle was at all times. Or explain cases where there is spousal abuse where the aggressor bribes a government worker, or pays a hacker to hack in and disclose the whereabouts of the spouse.

Besides one had a right to travel anonymously and rights cannot be converted into privileges nor can they be taken away.

Brazil was pretty cool with their uptake of Open Source Software. But this sounds pretty damn lame to me in terms of civil liberties.

Governments around the world are loosing their ability to totally control the reality experience of the common individual. Thank you very much for for trying to entertain us, but we have lives to live here on this planet and beyond - leave us be.

Governments are illusions for the delusional.
Snap out of it!
JB

That's why I live in America! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544425)

We are free from illegal searches and seizures. We are free...oh, wait. (Damn Patriot Act screwing up my patriotic rant, again)

Re:That's why I live in America! (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544793)

In America, all the state needs to do is, install license plate readers in strategic location (just like they have done in NY and in some other states)

Brazilian cells? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544527)

Brazilian drivers should swap RF chips at random intervals. That way, the government will track the chips, not the cars.

Bring it on!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41544781)

Wow - we could see a whole new vector in disruptive services.

Imagine a transponder (powered by Linux :) ) that sends out millions of random RFID numbers per second - effectively jamming the receiver! Imagine bolting that onto your car and going for a drive!

Imagine if millions of people did that in the country? Chaos!

Hmmmm... How about stationary units? That could be even more fun!

Pfft (1)

tobiah (308208) | about a year and a half ago | (#41544815)

I've seen Brazil, it's like 90% illegal. As in the houses, utilities, economy. Rio has an unlicensed bus system by a loose affiliation of van-owners that is way more popular than the official one. There is not a single law there that a majority of the population obeys.

Re:Pfft (2)

stuporglue (1167677) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545115)

I lived in Brazil for 3 years, and while it's a lot easier to find the black market in Brazil than in the US, it's no where near 90% illegal. Even where Redock and Abbedias type knock-off options are available Brazilians recognize and would rather have the real deal.

For the most part the people who have illegal utilities are shack dwellers (even poorer than those in brick-built favelas). Even most of the brick buildings in the favelas have an electric and water meter attached and in use.

The combi vans are popular and cheaper than the bus, but police busts make them risky, and they're hard to get in and out of. As a result it's mostly poorer working men who need to save the R$0.25 per ride who take them.

My experience was mainly in Minas Gerais and Sao Paulo (the city itself and several suburbs), so maybe Rio is a different story.

Re:Pfft (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545179)

The government has no danm business into saying what bus I can or can not take. Except that people here don't complain about big government like in the US, they just ignore it.

HOGWASH! (1)

p51d007 (656414) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545139)

Anyone who gives up a little LIBERTY, in the name of SECURITY, deserves NEITHER! "Benefits also include more security"

How Brazil works (4, Informative)

submain (856941) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545575)

Brasil is a communal society; we could care less for individual rights. Heck, if the entire country goes out on the streets naked every February, there is no need for individualism.

That being said, it's really hard to enforce a law in Brasil, mostly because it is a matter of national pride to find a way around the rules. They can put as many transponders as they want, but if all the population gets are tickets, then even the dealerships will have an "unofficial" - official - system to remove the tags.

The same thing happened with DVD players way back. Companies tried to force consumers to only get players for region 7. Except that, when you bought a DVD player, the salesman himself would write a code in a piece of paper that you could use to unlock all the regions.

Of course, if the system is used properly, then people won't bother. They could care less if some random guy knows if they are going to churches or brothels.

Brazilian Explain (3, Informative)

superflit (1193931) | about a year and a half ago | (#41545657)

OK,

It is VERY FUNNY how foreigners or first world people think about that.
The REAL reason is:

TAXES, FEES and revenues.

The Brazilian gov. only cares about revenues and taxes to keep it's dysfunctional dept. and employees.
Brazil was one of the first countries to have its IRS system on internet, paying taxes on INTERNET.

In one of my country roads, there is a camera that read the tags and check if the license is ok.
If not it sends a alert to the next police station with details.
The police see: White car, tag xx xxx
He stop and tow the car.

But if you go at night that does not work.
So the brazilian govt is going deeper.

In sao Paolo you have SOME days you can use your car, if you use on 'not allowed' days and you get caught you get a fine.
So this is the reason for the tags.

'hmmmmm..you moved your car 1 mile in your not allowed day, please pay'

Now I will wait for my fellows brazilians say that 'it is not like that.' and how our govt 'really ' cares about us..

American cars are already being tracked (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41545675)

Most cars in America have GPS chips in the main system as part of the built-in optional road-side assistance and by defalt it turns on with the car and is broadcasting by defalt it's just if your not paying for any of those services it is not listed as being "available" but in 5min anyone with the right equipment can tell where you have been in the last 3-6 months (depending on the model of GPS system) stop by stop with times and dates.

The car manufactures just don't talk about it because it makes it easy for anyone to track anyone with ease

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...