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Tribes2 and Alpha Centauri for Linux

michael posted more than 13 years ago | from the better-than-xpilot dept.

Games 261

Time Doctor writes: "Wow, Tribes 2 and Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri are actually shipping from Loki next week :-) Faith has brought Linux Gamers two new games, and if sales are good, more will come. Sure we had some sad news today about the Indrema, but, keep hope alive! (thanks to Linux Games for the tip)."

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261 comments

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Re:Alpha Centauri - what was the holdup? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#297293)

My guess: the sales of their other titles were too soft (notice that the releases petered out for a while?), so they couldn't afford the packaging. That would definitely fit with 8 months of packaging.

Guess they either (a) found a different packaging solution, or (hopefully!) (b) got some money!

Re:Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#297294)

All right, how is Linux "targeted primarily at political leftists?"

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#297295)

Loki's near-simo releases to date:
  1. Civ:CTP -- 1 month behind
  2. Railroad Tycoon 2: Gold Edition: 2 weeks behind Windows release of Gold Edition
  3. Quake 3: simo if you preordered the CD, 3 weeks if you waited for the tins
  4. SC3U: 3 months
  5. Tribes 2: 1 month (3 weeks?)
Now. Some of the other titles (Descent 3, Myth 2) were a bit older, but GEEZ. That's a decent track record. It's better than the other companies in this market...

Re:WARNING: TRIBES 2 (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#297296)

Works fine on Radeons, too. Rage 128's take a little tweaking, and you lose some visual quality, but you can get that working just fine, too.

Re:But Will You Buy It? (1)

Micah (278) | more than 13 years ago | (#297298)

Yeah, I probably will, but maybe not right away. Need to start making real money again. :-) As soon as i get another programming contract...

I do plan to buy SMAC and SC3K, and maybe Tribes if my 'doze using friends are into that. Hopefully Tribes is one of those games that can be played w/the 'doze version.

Re:But Will You Buy It? (1)

Micah (278) | more than 13 years ago | (#297299)

Ouch. Any idea how much Loki pockets from each of those, after packaging/shipping costs, but before salaries, rent, etc?

I'm guessing for a $45 game... $20 to the retail store, including shipping it there... $6 for packaging & book & CD, $10 for royalties to the 'doze producer of the game. That leaves... $9.

Yikes I hope I'm off somewhere. Anyone have any real numbers or more educated guesses?

And what happens when the game starts selling for under $20? Who looses the most ... Loki, the original maker, or the retail store?

Re:Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (2)

Micah (278) | more than 13 years ago | (#297300)

Well at least Linux HAS the games.

And I fail to understand why games cease to be 'great' ast time passes. Heck, Pac-Man and Centipede are still great games! Not as in-depth as today's games, sure, but they're still great for what they are.

And I for one really want to see Linux replace Windows as the de-facto desktop OS. This is an absolutely necessary step for that to happen. Sure, it would be much better if all games were released concurrently on both platforms. And some are, or nearly so. But late is better than never.

Re:Game Ports (1)

demon (1039) | more than 13 years ago | (#297303)

You do know who published Asheron's Call, don't you?

Three guesses.

Still don't know? It's Microsoft. Microsoft will NEVER actually let any game with their name all over it be ported to Linux. Trust me.
_____

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (4)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 13 years ago | (#297319)

I'm sorry, but the whole of the gaming worl uses it.

Except for that which doesn't.

Even consoles are getting it, like the XBox.

Haha. XBox is 1) made by MS, who by chance also makes DirectX and 2) basically a PC in a pretty box. Try again when PS2 uses DirectX.

Games that don't use it, such as WuakeIII, are very dificult to install.

What are you talking about? DirectX has nothing to do with installing (other than every game wants you to install DirectX, even if you already have it)? InstallShield works no matter what, and if you'd ever used Loki's installer, you'd know they aren't any different.

You people need to buy things.

You need to grab a clue about the "people" you're talking about. Seriously, you sound like a microserf from 1996 talking about us "longhairs who want everything for free".

Normal people=market.

Wow, almost a point. Yeah, Linux won't be a gaming platform until it gets bigger market share. How +1, insightful.

12 month old crap like what is being touted here

Like Tribes2? Damn, if you've had it for 12 months, why have you been holding out?

I suspect I will be flamed and modded down for this, but it is the truth.

Yeah, if "truth" means FUD based on other 5-year old FUD.

Moderators on crack? (1)

Bitscape (7378) | more than 13 years ago | (#297321)

How is this a troll? It is relevant. It is on-topic. It is a good reply to the parent comment. Somebody give the moderators a clue.

The announcement of news://loki.games.smac (1)

TilJ (7607) | more than 13 years ago | (#297322)


Subject: It's Play Time: SMAC to Ship Next Week!
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:47:28 -0700
From: Kayt Sorhaindo
Organization: Loki Software, Inc.
Newsgroups: loki.games.smac

IT'S PLAY TIME

Not one, but TWO Linux games will ship next week from Loki Software,
Inc.

Tribes 2 will be HOT on the heals of the Windows release by Sierra
On-Line, and the long-awaited Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri Planetary Pack
by Firaxis will also make its Linux debut.

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri Planetary Pack will ship to resellers on
Monday, April 16, with the low MSRP of $29.95. Tribes 2 will follow suit
on Wednesday, April 18, with an MSRP of $49.95.

Can't resist both of these exciting games? Take advantage of a
promotional bundle and receive both for the special price of $59.95.
This offer is available directly from Loki and from select resellers.
[Note that the Loki webstore will not be updated for another 48 hours
with this new information]

Look for these products at your favorite online reseller.

For more information visit www.lokigames.com.

Enjoy!
- Loki Software, Inc.

I will, and won't (1)

winterstorm (13189) | more than 13 years ago | (#297334)

I'll be buying Tribes 2 for Linux. I recently purged my windows systems which were only used for games. I'm happily gaming on Linux playing Sim City 3000, Railroad Tycoon, and Descent 3. I'm really looking forward to Creatures 3 and Neverwinter Nights. The only other game that I really really wish was available for linux is Counter Strike.

I won't buy Alpha Centauri. I played the demo and it sucks.

The biggest problem I have with Linux games (from Loki anyways) is they depend on SDL. SDL apps totally crash my system. I have five video cards in my workstation and if I launch an SDL app on anything but my primary display the system halts. I don't me X crashes and I don't mean X locks up, I mean the system freezes completely. SDL is really nice but so is my five monitor system; I have having to choose between them.

Nope, because they chose wrong games to release (1)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 13 years ago | (#297337)

Yet Another FPS and a Civilization clone. *yawn*

They should have released MindRover instead. The demo is a lot of fun, and I'll buy it the instant it comes out. But they can't very well get my money if they don't release the product, eh?


---

How? (2)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 13 years ago | (#297340)

This is dangerously close to the too-good-to-be-true area. What's the deal with these guys? Are they selling at a loss, or pirates, or what?


---

Re:Excellent! (2)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 13 years ago | (#297341)

IMHO you're wasting your time looking there. Linux games are like heavy metal CDs: you won't find anything decent in a retail store. Thank Yog for online shops!


---

Who waited? (1)

SimplyCosmic (15296) | more than 13 years ago | (#297342)

So how many people who either dual-boot, or have more than one computer, couldn't wait wait for the Linux client and bought the Windows version?

Personally, besides the fact that I was an impatient little player, I figured that I would get better performance from my Windows machine as a client, and I'll use my Linux box as a server.

Re:Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (3)

Grond (15515) | more than 13 years ago | (#297343)

1) Tribes2 is not old at all. This is a long-planned near-simultaneous release. The Windows version came out like a week ago.

2) What software is available for Linux? Well, there's WordPerfect Office 2000 and Oracle 8i, to name a couple of fairly heavy-duty apps. Also, IBM DB2 and ViaVoice. Then of course there are the thousands of 'minor' applications like Blender and the GIMP. True, none of those are the 'heavyweight' office automation package (I assume you mean MS Office), but they are some pretty major applications.

Another way of looking at this is that it would be better for Linux to have -some- high-visibility apps than none, even if they are a little older.

Tribes2 (2)

sweetooth (21075) | more than 13 years ago | (#297351)

I certainly hope that Tribes 2 plays better under Linux than it does under windows. I can't count the number of problems I've had with it, not to mention how many my friends have had. That's one piece of software I regret buying.

Alpha Centauri (1)

musicmaker (30469) | more than 13 years ago | (#297354)

I got tired of waiting for the Linux version to appear so I bought the win version. The interface and gamestyle was so Civ II. I have played CivCTP for awhile now, and I love it. It was a huge step back. The graphics were hard to see and the gameplay was poor. I was very dissapointed. I wish Loki would pick better titles to port. Tribes II however sounds like an excellent bet.

Anyone play Imperium Galactica - reminded me of stars, although not as deep, I though the graphics/movies were cool. I would love to see that for linux.

Were are all the PC game titles? it seems to me that all the new games are console, and so few good titles are released for the PC. Most of them are rehashes of old engines with a new(ish) plot and no real new gameplay. What happened to inovative games?

Re:Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (1)

Double A (34222) | more than 13 years ago | (#297356)

(1) yeah, but tribes 2 is new.

Tribes 2 + supporting a cause (1)

Symbiosis (39537) | more than 13 years ago | (#297364)

Well, I've got the first Tribes, and it's pretty good. I wasn't going to get Tribes 2 because my friend has it and it didn't impress me enough to spend 50 bucks on it. I think I'll buy the Loki port, though. It's a decent enough game, and if it helps their numbers, it could help future ports. Works for me. :-)

Now, if I could just find someone who carries them locally....

-------------------------------------------
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.

Re:Alpha Centauri - what was the holdup? (1)

Symbiosis (39537) | more than 13 years ago | (#297365)

according to this ac [slashdot.org] you're right. The port was done 8 months ago and it got caught up in packaging issues.

-------------------------------------------
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.

I will :-) (1)

Symbiosis (39537) | more than 13 years ago | (#297366)

Assuming I can find it at my local babbages (haven't been there in a while) or I get a credit card and order it from Loki :-)

-------------------------------------------
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.

DirectX (1)

dmaxwell (43234) | more than 13 years ago | (#297367)

Where do I find it on Microsoft's site? I searched microsoft.com for hours and all I could find was:

http://www.microsoft.com/ntserver/nts/news/msnw/ Li nuxMyths.asp

Re:All right (1)

spinkham (56603) | more than 13 years ago | (#297374)

Pc Gaming reason 1:
I already own a PC
PC gaming reason 2:
My PC has a mouse attatched.. Ever try to play quake2 with a joypad? Yuck!
PC gaming reason 3:
Network gaming.

Re:this annoys me everytime (1)

spinkham (56603) | more than 13 years ago | (#297375)

Ok, you get on your win box, I'll stay on my linux box, we'll play quake3 and see who does better ;-)
Come on, linux makes a great gaming OS, and with Xfree 4.x and more and more linux prts apearing, the last of the barriers towards more people gaming on Linux have fallen down.
Linux has been my gaming OS for over 4 years, btw. Voodoo 2 cards have been supported in Linux nearly forever. ;-)

Re:Glad (1)

treke (62626) | more than 13 years ago | (#297376)

Wont be any binareis released.
treke
Fame is a vapor; popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion.

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (1)

treke (62626) | more than 13 years ago | (#297377)

12 month old crap? 2 week old crap in the case of Tribes 2
treke
Fame is a vapor; popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion.

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (1)

treke (62626) | more than 13 years ago | (#297378)

Alpha Centauri is a real oddity. It was completed at least 6 months ago, probably longer, but was delayed due to vague problems concerning packaging. Averaging them out isnt useful.
treke
Fame is a vapor; popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion.

Re:WARNING: TRIBES 2 (1)

Time Doctor (79352) | more than 13 years ago | (#297382)

I loved the beta, but at the moment you practically need a geforce 2 mx or higher to play it in Linux. Windows has similar high ass requirements. It's lots of fun though, so, I blew about 600 dollars on upgrading my shit to play it. It's worth every penny :)

Re:But Will You Buy It? (1)

Time Doctor (79352) | more than 13 years ago | (#297383)

Hell yes ima buyin it, have the beta, and it fucking rocks. Of course I'm some freak hard core gamer by most peoples opinions but, Linux [slackware.com] rocks, and I'd toss away all this computer equipment if it went away for whatever reason. Life just ain't the same without an operations system that can boast longer uptimes than some peoples (short) lives. It ain't gonna be run everywhere until we get desktop. We don't get desktop unless we get killer apps. Games are close, maybe not killer, and not exclusive, but they will get users. That's the plan anyway...

Re:WARNING: TRIBES 2 (1)

Time Doctor (79352) | more than 13 years ago | (#297384)

It's not so much video-card, as GL implementation. nvidia crap has real opengl, and the mesa drivers just aren't as optimized yet. They will be though, someday.

Re:WARNING: TRIBES 2 (1)

Time Doctor (79352) | more than 13 years ago | (#297385)

The G400MAX will need the latest version of X (whenever it comes out with the latest DRI [sourceforge.net] code merged), or you can just get cvs of DRI and learn how to code to fix it yourself :)



I wussed out and bought an nvidia card

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (1)

Rares Marian (83629) | more than 13 years ago | (#297390)

Tribes 2 was out 2 weeks ago. Not Loki. Learn to read.

Re:"new" games? (1)

idcmp (93227) | more than 13 years ago | (#297396)

Tribes 2 has been out for about a week.

WARNING: TRIBES 2 (4)

idcmp (93227) | more than 13 years ago | (#297397)

If you were thinking about going out and just getting Tribes 2 for Linux, you may want to think again. I've been on the beta cycle for it, and have lost countless hours doing nothing more than sitting in front of my computer playing it. Infact, I would say that unless you're absolutely sure you won't mind being seriously addicted to a game for the next dozen months, you should think again.

There are lots of good reviews about Tribes 2 (for Microsoft and Linux alike), so I won't touch on the game here (go read them!)

Seriously, the only thing that is a draw back in this game is the hardware needed to play it (it's just as bad - if not worse - on Microsoft). But if you've been looking for an excuse or good time to upgrade your system (3D card specifically), this is definately it.

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (3)

hoser (95281) | more than 13 years ago | (#297399)

3)Get some bloody normal people to use the OS. Just now its all Bearded GNU types and warezing kiddies, at least when it is being used in the home. Linux is a business OS, not a home OS. Normal people=market.

Here we've got the chicken and the egg problem. You need to get people to use the OS to get companies to make apps/games, but you need apps/games to get people to use the OS. Loki's really sticking their neck out (I would think - don't really know what sales are like) by selling Linux versions of games that are already available on Windows. Nevertheless, it's a good thing they are, because if Tribes2 sells well other companies will start to look at Linux as a potential platform as well.

I'd definetly consider buying Tribes2 for Linux - if I could get it at Electronics Boutique, so I could return it in the event that it doesn't work on my machine. euroderf's right on the DirectX thing. I've only tried installing demos on Linux because the risk of going out and buying it is too great at the moment.

It alkso needs new games, not 12 month old crap like what is being touted here.

Didn't Tribes2 just come out like a week or two ago? I think Loki's done a pretty good job on that one! Alpha Centauri may be a different story, but I choose to look at it as glass-half-full.

"new" games? (2)

acecccp (102351) | more than 13 years ago | (#297403)

I don't know about Tribes2, but Alpha Centauri has been out for a WHILE. It was fun, but not as fun as Civ2 used to be either IMO.

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (1)

PerlGeek (102857) | more than 13 years ago | (#297404)

"I suspect I will be flamed and modded down
for this, but it is the truth. Deal with it."

You are very arrogent. You preach your personal opinion as if it was some high and mighty truth. You must think you are so profound.

Share your opinion, please.

Speak your mind.

But please, stuff the attitude.

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (1)

Glonk (103787) | more than 13 years ago | (#297405)

Alpha Centauri is well over 2 years old. If you average them out, it's about twelve months.

Re:But Will You Buy It? (1)

Cheshire Cat (105171) | more than 13 years ago | (#297406)

Hmm...well if its inexpensive enough I *may* pick up Alpha Centauri. Tribes 2 is right out cause I run linux on an old Dell laptop. But Alpha Centauri might be a cool game to play on a plane ride. We'll see! :)

But Will You Buy It? (4)

Cheshire Cat (105171) | more than 13 years ago | (#297408)

I'm glad to see that Loki is taking a large risk and porting these games to a Linux platform. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess a lot of Slashdot readers will heap kudos and praise on Loki for doing this, and many of these people will urge others to "support Linux and buy these games."

But I'm kind of wondering how many of these people will actually buy the Linux version of these games? It seems like everyone wants someone else to buy the games. Even though I really want to see Linux succeed as a gaming platform, I seriously doubt I'll buy either of these. Usually if I want to play a game, I'll hop on my Windows box. In my experience, its been much easier to get something to work on my Windows box than on a Linux box.

I know that Linux is in a Catch 22 where games won't succeed until people buy them, but no one will buy them until lots of games come out. I wish I could say that I would buy one of these ports to support Loki. But honestly, I know I won't. And I'm pretty sure few Slashdot readers will. I just hope that in a few years, I'll be able to change my stance and say that getting a game to work on my Linux box is just as easy as my PC.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Re:Who waited? (1)

VultureMN (116540) | more than 13 years ago | (#297415)

I waited. I wasn't in a huge hurry since I SUCK at tribes anyway, even though I've been playing for a coupla years. I do want to get Tribes2, though, so I have a new place to humiliate myself, and I decided to buy from Loki since I think Loki's awesome. I bought SimCity3k from theme a couple of weeks ago, and I love it. (Yeah, I know SC3k is an old game, but it's a good one). Well, except that SC3k seems to have a memory leak, but that's no different than my friend's Windoze version I, ah, borrowed from him awhile back.

Re:Piracy (1)

jallen02 (124384) | more than 13 years ago | (#297418)

Same thing was said about QIII...

Jeremy

Re:Piracy (1)

jbrians (135805) | more than 13 years ago | (#297422)

Yep, that's what I meant. Thanks for clarifying.

Piracy (3)

jbrians (135805) | more than 13 years ago | (#297423)

Buy it. Seriously. Even if it isn't stocked at your local CompUSA. That is assuming you want more games to come to linux...
-Brian

Re:Does the Market want Linux Games ? Not really.. (1)

yamla (136560) | more than 13 years ago | (#297424)

Does the market want Linux games? Perhaps, but more probably not. Do I want Linux games? Yes, and I am willing to pay for them. I will even choose them over Windows versions of the games if they are both released close to the same time.

The market has chosen DirectX? Surely you are kidding. It is certainly true that most game developers have chosen DirectX but the consumers do not care. The majority of consumers could not tell you the difference between DirectX and OpenGL. Most video cards have good OpenGL support. Did anyone complain that Baldur's Gate 2 was written to OpenGL instead of DirectX? No. Near as I can tell, nobody cared.

Does Linux need DirectX support? No, clearly not. It may help matters (and certainly would for gaming) but come on.

--

Re:Does the Market want Linux Games ? Not really.. (1)

yamla (136560) | more than 13 years ago | (#297425)

True enough, Baldur's Gate 2 certainly uses DirectX for things other than graphics. But again, does the consumer care? What difference does it make to a consumer whether his character moves because DirectX is tracking the mouse or X-Windows is tracking the mouse? How does the average consumer know that the networking code uses DirectX instead of some other network library?

The average consumer doesn't. Provided the game still works, provided the graphics still look as nice and the sound still sounds as nice.

Claiming that the market has chosen DirectX is silly. Certainly it is true that DirectX has won the hearts of (most) developers, I'll grant that. And for what it is worth, that is a far more important battle.

--

Re:But Will You Buy It? (3)

yamla (136560) | more than 13 years ago | (#297426)

I plan on ordering Alpha Centauri. I already own the Windows version and I enjoy it so much that I'd like a version for my regular operating system.

I do not play that many games. Most of them are Windows only (e.g. Black and White) and so when something I really enjoy is available in Linux, it is worth it to me to purchase.

Besides, I seem to be reinstalling my Microsoft operating systems once every 4 - 8 weeks while my Linux install is completely stable.

For what it is worth, if a game came out for both Windows and Linux at the same time and played pretty much the same, I'd rather buy the Linux version than the Windows version.

I, of course, do not claim to represent even a significant minority. But hey, I represent me (most of the time).

--

This is a big deal. (4)

Bad_CRC (137146) | more than 13 years ago | (#297429)

Tribes 2, in a (nearly) simultaneous release with the win client, not a year later, not even months... a full retail port developed and tested along side the windows version.

This is a big deal for linux gaming. This time you have to either commit to buying the linux version, or stick to playing on windows only. (To help with the choice, the Linux version is reported to run BETTER than the win version by the people who tested it and have played both.)

If Tribes 2 fails on Linux (and there's a fair chance it may) we may have missed the last effort of this level to bring Blockbuster games to our OS at the same time as win players, and the ONLY way to make sure companies have a reason to release Linux games is to back up our talk with our cash. We've all said that Linux has a market that game developers shouldn't ignore, but this is the point where we need to put up or shut up, because the free ride is over, and each of us has to make a choice, the results of which will impact every future title.

If you can't tell, I'm afraid of what the future of big-name gaming on Linux will be unless companies stop losing money on ports.

oh, and please check out the linux tribes website too...

________

Go Buy Tribes2 for Linux. (2)

amr42 (140403) | more than 13 years ago | (#297430)

I was on the Beta team for the Linux version of Tribes2 and it is a fantastic game. Hats off to Loki for a wonderfull job. Everything that works under the Windows version works under Linux. However, be warned that it will only really works with nvidia cards and nvidia closed drivers. Anybody with a GeForce 256 and above should be able to play the game on 400mhz and above machine. If you have a 3dfx card, you will find it a lot of trouble to play the game. Those with radeons should get the latest dri source from cvs. The developer of dri (Gareth Hughes) was on the beta team and has been working to get dri working with Tribes2. And support Loki, they are doing wonderfull things.

Available from Tux Games (2)

michaelsimms (141209) | more than 13 years ago | (#297432)

The games can be ordered from Tux Games [tuxgames.com] (Alpha Centauri [tuxgames.com] and Tribes 2 [tuxgames.com] ). We are also selling the discount bundle [tuxgames.com] .

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (2)

nomadic (141991) | more than 13 years ago | (#297433)

The problem is X-windows just isn't mature enough for the home market. It's only been around what, 15 years? Get cut and paste across different programs, get click and drag, get better graphical performance, and maybe we'd have something.
--

Glad (1)

SealBeater (143912) | more than 13 years ago | (#297434)

Glad that I haven't bought Tribes 2 yet. Anybody know if there will be cross-compatable binaries availible a la Quake3? Even if not, doesn't matter, I just found a new source of computer crack 8*)

SealBeater

Re:But Will You Buy It? (2)

e_n_d_o (150968) | more than 13 years ago | (#297440)

I find Linux games to be easier to install than Windows games. This is because I know how to install both, and installing the Linux ones take less time... hence, they are "easier to install".

I don't have to reboot. I don't have to worry about the game installation causing my system to reboot into "safe mode". I don't have to reboot, again. I don't have to delete five AOL icons from my desktop, start menu, and system tray (or their GNOME equivalents). I don't have to reboot after I play the game. I don't have to reinstall the applications that the game broke by overwriting critical shared libraries. I don't have to reboot after the system crashes every second time I start the game if its the first thing I launch after I log in.

All I have to do, is read the !@#$!@#$ directions and type exactly what they say and the game works.
---

Re:Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (4)

e_n_d_o (150968) | more than 13 years ago | (#297442)

Aimed at political leftists?

Sure, I see the connection... its open source, and somehow if one thinks hard enough they can conjure up a relation to socialism, which obviously to us right-wingers-living-in-our-bomb-shelters might as well be communism spelled differently.

Well, I'm pretty far to the right... and I love Linux. Most of my friends are right-wing too... they also "get it" when it comes to Linux. I like Linux for the same reasons you do... it does what its told and doesn't fuck up every third time like certain other OSes. We evil right-wing capitalists lose a shitload of money when our servers don't run... so we like things that don't crash. We also don't like spending more money when a better solution requires spending less money.

No heavyweight applications?

As for heavyweight applications, well, Linux has plenty. How about Apache? (60% of the Web). Oracle? DB2? First-tier Java support? (I personally love this one, as its saved/made my company hundreds of thousands of dollars.)

Desktop apps, you say?....WordPerfect, CorelDraw, Gimp, KOffice, and StarOffice, Gnumeric, GNUCash... and more little utility apps (Napster clones, MP3 players, FTP clients, Clock applets, Solitaire/Minesweeper games, and NetLoad meters than a big horse can shit.

The only apps I need to make me never even want to look at a Windows box again are CounterStrike and a Mozilla 1.0 based Galeon. I'll put my Mom on it once we get to the point where all desktop-oriented tasks (including software installation/management and hardware configuration) can be done without using a shell. (And Ximian seems to be making some VERY NICE progress on both these fronts).

---

flat out wrong (1)

edmudama (155475) | more than 13 years ago | (#297445)

The "real" support for high performance gamers is OpenGL. Stuff like smoke / dynamic lighting are a hundred times faster in OpenGL than DirectX on my GeForce2.

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (3)

DeeKayWon (155842) | more than 13 years ago | (#297446)

1)Get DirectX support. I'm sorry, but the whole of the gaming worl uses it. If you don't support it, you are stuffed. Even consoles are getting it, like the XBox. Games that don't use it, such as WuakeIII, are very dificult to install.

There's already SDL [libsdl.org] , which has been getting some nice, positive feedback as a good, cross-platform multimedia API. Note that Win32 is one of those platforms. Oh, and the API has nothing to do with the install. If you've ever tried a Loki game installation, they're really smooth and easy. Unreal Tournament installed just fine on my system.

3)Get some bloody normal people to use the OS.

And one of the best ways to lure users is to get some games for it. Loki porting some Windows games to Linux is a step in that direction. Face it, the general public is not even going to consider Linux as their OS until there's a good selection of games for it.

It alkso needs new games, not 12 month old crap like what is being touted here.

Neither game is crap, and only one of them is as old as you say. Tribes 2 has only been out for Windows for what, 1-2 weeks, tops?

Alpha Centauri - what was the holdup? (2)

idiot900 (166952) | more than 13 years ago | (#297451)

One of my friends has been waiting on Alpha Centauri on Linux since they announced it. What was the holdup? I heard some rumor that the game was actually finished but it was held up because of package design issues or some junk like that. Anybody have any better idea? At least with Daikatana there was a whole new game to design terribly.

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (2)

flip-flop (178593) | more than 13 years ago | (#297460)

1)Get DirectX support. I'm sorry, but the whole of the gaming worl uses it. If you don't support it, you are stuffed. Even consoles are getting it, like the XBox. Games that don't use it, such as WuakeIII, are very dificult to install.

Eh? What are you talking about, man? Quake III is no harder to install than your run of the mill DirectX game. Besides, what has the graphics API got to do with the installation process? You troll.

Oh and by the way, systems like the PS2 seem to be doing pretty well even though they don't use DirectX...

Re:Who waited? (1)

richie123 (180501) | more than 13 years ago | (#297461)

From the packaging tribe2 seems to run best on nvidia hardware.
And in my experience the windows and linux drivers are more or less even.

I don't know why so many people rush out to buy games the day they came
out only to find that they will have to wait several weeks (sometimes months)
to get an update to make the game work the way it should.

If Tribes 1 is indication, you going to need to wait a least a little while
for game to become fully stable anyway, so just wait for the Linux version.

Linux is great, but... (1)

Mike the Mac Geek (182790) | more than 13 years ago | (#297462)

What about the Mac? I couldn't get Tribes2 for the Mac if I sacrificed my first-born. Not to mention the fact that the Mac has a larger installed base, and much more clout has a gaming platform. I'm not knocking Linux, but simply saying let's games for all platforms.

Re:WARNING: TRIBES 2 (1)

jmu1 (183541) | more than 13 years ago | (#297463)

Damn... and here I was thinking that my doodoo, er VooDoo 3 was going to last me a few more months! ;)

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (1)

theoddone33 (184581) | more than 13 years ago | (#297464)

I agree with you to an extent. I don't believe DirectX is needed. In fact, I believe a DirectX for Linux would hinder rather than help Linux gaming. Do to the great variety of flavors of Linux and system configurations out there, I doubt that a closed product would work as well as an open product like SDL. As more and more developers see the value of portability, fewer will see the value of DirectX. Look at Tribes 2 for instance. The Windows development team used NASM for their assembly at the request of Loki. They cared about portability, and it worked out for them. But you are right without a shadow of a doubt on point number 2. Linux users have been spoiled by the generosity of Mr. Carmack and others that have followed his example. But the simple fact of the matter is that not every company will release source to all their games. If you want continued Linux ports of new games, you will have to shell out some cash. Loki and companies like them are the only way to get quality games fast, and paying for those games is the only way to keep companies like Loke afloat. If you warez Linux games, you are only preventing yourself and others from getting more games for Linux. By the way, Tribes 2 is not 12 month old crap, it is a new game that everyone who paid attention knew was going to be ported almost from the very beginning. SMAC may be old, but it is not crap.

alpha centauri (1)

hyperstation (185147) | more than 13 years ago | (#297465)

ac might be a nice game, but it is in no way "new"

--

Re:Does the Market want Linux Games ? Not really.. (1)

-martee (191318) | more than 13 years ago | (#297467)

Er ... D3D != DirectX.
Baldur's Gate 2 (and other OpenGL games) still use DirectX for such *unimportant" things as sound, input, and sometimes networking. People seem to forget that sometimes...
~~~~~~~~~~

Re:But Will You Buy It? (1)

ZeroConcept (196261) | more than 13 years ago | (#297472)

Neither do I. I'm running windows98 and I have never had a game do that to me.

Now...When installing Microsoft Softrware...well plenty of reboots are needed.

You are exaggerating.

Re:Alpha Centauri - what was the holdup? (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 13 years ago | (#297474)

You shoulda patched it....

Jaysyn

Re:Game Ports (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 13 years ago | (#297475)

that's a joke right?

Jaysyn

Re:$9.99 Loki Games at EBGames.com (1)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 13 years ago | (#297482)

Forgot to mention... I'm not affiliated with EBgames.com. I'm just thrilled to be able to play these games in Linux without having to reboot -- I owned the Windows versions already. I just never thought it was worth it to buy the Linux versions as well -- until this deal.

Re:How? (1)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 13 years ago | (#297483)

Don't know, but it doesn't look like pirated goods. The Q3A box was the nifty aluminum one. It's now my Q3A "bloody cookie" tin.

$9.99 Loki Games at EBGames.com (5)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 13 years ago | (#297484)

Many of the already released games are going for $9.99 at EBGames.com! Just search for "linux" when you get there!

I got Descent 3, Heretic II, Soldier of Fortune, Quake III Arena, Heavy Gear II and Heroes of Might and Magic III this week (six games) for less than $70.00 after shipping!

And they were fast to ship, too!

Long live Loki and Loki games! They're identical to the Windows versions on my GeForce2 under XFree86 4.0.

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (1)

X-Dopple (213116) | more than 13 years ago | (#297485)

Quake III may be no harder to install than the Windows client, but getting it to run is a headache beyond proportions.

On my Mandrake 7.2-based system, I could not get Quake III to run AT ALL. As soon as it would start up, it would segfault. This is on an AMD K6/2 500 with a 16MB Voodoo Banshee that worked perfectly fine on a Windows machine. Tracing the problem back further, I discovered that it needed DRI to run, and bus-mastering had to be enabled for DRI to work. I tried using the bus-mastering enable script over at dri.sourceforge.net.

Guess what?

It didn't do a thing.

I don't want this kind of bullshit on linux. I should not have to enable bus-mastering just to get a single damned game to work. Hell, I shouldn't even have to screw with Mesa. I should be able to double click on the icon AND HAVE IT LAUNCH AND RUN PROPERLY.

Re:All right (1)

Drakantus (226374) | more than 13 years ago | (#297491)

I really hate the poor resolution on TV's, and for that reason I prefer the way games look on the computer. The size doesn't bother me that much- I would rather look at 1280X1024 on a 19" screen than look at 525Xwhatever on a 29" TV. And sorry, I can't afford to charge $3k+ for an HDTV, and even if I could I don't know if any consoles support them at their highest resolutions (which btw are still lower than the highest resolutions of a good monitor).

Other than this, I have also noticed that very few game ship anymore without major bugs/play balance problems. These are usually fixed in a few months with a patch, and I can't see how you can apply a patch to any game consoles useing existing technology (x-box will be different with it's hard drive).

Re:WARNING: TRIBES 2 (1)

Drakantus (226374) | more than 13 years ago | (#297492)

Very true. People with 3dfx cards are lucky if they can get better than 15fps during combat, and this is on 800mhz+ computers with plenty of ram, and playing at 640X480. This is from experience- I have a voodoo 3 3500 and the fps drop to below 5 at times- the game is basicly unplayable. It's pretty much all video card limited though, I have heard of people running it fine on a 350mhz pentium 2 as long as they have a geforce 2 gts with 64MB.

Re:"new" games? (1)

Elendur (228338) | more than 13 years ago | (#297495)

Tribes 2 has been out only for a couple of weeks, so yes it's new.

One more reason this game is important... (4)

wrinkledshirt (228541) | more than 13 years ago | (#297496)

You can get a developer's license of the engine for cheap ($100 and some publishing restrictions) [garagegames.com]

If this game is successful, and many people playtest the engine and submit bug reports and the folks at Tribes2 keep on top of it, you might see a whole slew of mods that may rival Half-Life's in terms of quality, only this time on the Linux desktop. It'll be a real shot in the arm for linux game development to have this stuff available at large, if it catches on.

There are some publishing restrictions on the license that you'll probably want to check out if you think this is the way you want to go, but if it'll bring over any programmers from the Windows ballpark, or at least prepare Windows game programmers to work with a game engine that has success on the Linux platform, that increases the chance that we'll get more and better games.

Re:Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (1)

zencode (234108) | more than 13 years ago | (#297497)

IMO, anything that makes people enjoy their OS more is A Good Thing. So between "SOF" and "No SOF", I'm 100% in favor of the latter.

And secondly, I think we should stop caring about what is good for Linux' marketing future. I, frankly, don't give a rat's behind about the optimum way to spin it for maxumum palatability. Free (as in beer) is right by it's own virtue, regardless of it's marketroid virtues.

But I understand the point your trying to make. I just disagree.

My .02,

Re:But Will You Buy It? (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 13 years ago | (#297503)

Actually as someone who has used both platforms and this year kicked windows out of my house I must say this for Loki and Linux:

Theyre installer rules and makes the game install transparent.

It was much easier to install my nvidia 3d drivers in Linux than it was in NT or win98. $ make install (phew! that was hard)

Your opinion may have been valid a year or so ago but things have changed, and if you're still having issues playing games in Linux it's probably your hardware and not the OS.

Loki is doing a great job - It's like a breath of fresh air not having to reboot to play great games like descent3 and Alpha Centauri (demoo - soon full game :-) Please try again and update your opinion.

NOte that I'm not flaming you - just suggesting you try again.

Re:this annoys me everytime (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 13 years ago | (#297504)

Like what ? What constraints ?

Theonly constraints are time and gradual acceptance of game companies. It will take time, it will happen.

www.neverwinternights.com

Re:Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 13 years ago | (#297505)

Descent3
Myth2
Alpha Centauri (next week)
Civ:CTP

These are older games, but they're great. I'm particularly addicted to Myth2. Tribes2 coming out with the Win32 release is a great step and neverwinter nights coming out for both platforms (and mac) ois great too.

I for one am happy not to hafta reboot to play games. The new games will happen, it will just take time and sales figures.

I must strongly disagree with you about "To promote Linux as a gaming platform is to promote it as a "toy OS."" While I couldnt care less how it compares to Winlimp in the market place I love the fact that people are porting (and writing) games to it. It's nice to FINALLY HAVE A STABLE PLATFORM FROM WHICH TO GAME...

I'm happy about it - Go Loki!

Re:But Will You Buy It? (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 13 years ago | (#297506)

Yes - the demo (and Myth2 and Civ:CTP) run great on my thinkpad!

Re:But Will You Buy It? (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 13 years ago | (#297507)

Also - nice Zork Quote :-)

And yes, I will buy SMAC, and Kohan, and I own 2 others.

Re:Does the Market want Linux Games ? Not really.. (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 13 years ago | (#297508)

Thank heavens the sane world believes in OpenGL . . . I've experienced more DirectX crashes in one hour playing Diablo2 than I've expereineced in OpenGL in 3 years . . .

Re:But Will You Buy It? (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 13 years ago | (#297509)

Hmmm- I wonder why I got -1 trolled for that :(

Re:Linux is great, but... (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 13 years ago | (#297510)

I'm not sure I agree that Mac has a larger installed base (I only know 2 mac users and one jumped ship) but I agree that in a perfect world code would be portable and games would be easily ported or simultaneously written for Linux, Mac and Win32. Others too, but we need to draw the line of rationality somewhere . . .:-)

No offense iron-horse mac users, but I really think that Linux has overtaken ya'll in terms of sheer numbers.

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 13 years ago | (#297511)

You have no business playing Quake3 on a 16 Meg banshee. That's pretty laughable hehe.

Dont blame your woes on linux - your card was written specifically to run in Windows and is how old now?

Too funny - I'm sorry you had such a rough time of it. Why would anybody in the Linux dev market worry about writing drivers for a 2 year old card?

It should be noted also that video performance has nothing to do with linux distribution or level. Either the drivers for your card work or they do not, it doesnt matter whether the distro is a 7.2 or 6.0 level. The distros are essentially hardware agnostic.

So if anyone is reading this dont get the wrong impression - this isnt windows so updating your os to the latest and greatest rev isnt going to fix anything. Either the drivers for your (in this case shitty or at least very old (I have a voodoo2 buried in my server)) card work or they don't. And where is 3dfx now anyway ? Hmm - try using a card who's manufacturer still exists to support their product.

Re:Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (2)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 13 years ago | (#297514)

It should be noted here that windows is essentially irrelevant in the upper bounds of the workstation market where sheer horsepower and memory are everything.

I do engineering sims for a living - the engineering world of massive simulation and calculation is owned by Unix and Linx, so it is definately NOT a toy OS.

Engineers use windows when they get bumped into management and no longer need a high-powered workstation. Period. I see ti every day.

Ask the Verity or Verplex or hydrodynamics guys which os's they use...and then come back here and tell me which os is the TOY os.

Re:But Will You Buy It? (2)

nightfire-unique (253895) | more than 13 years ago | (#297517)

In my experience, its been much easier to get something to work on my Windows box than on a Linux box.

That's great, if you have a Windows box.

I don't. I can't stand it. This is not a religious thing or due to a lack of knowledge; I've been using my Unix (and Linux) workstations for longer than DOS has been around, and I'm very comfortable with them. The way I use computers causes major headaches on PCs. I can't explain it. :)

I'm glad that these games have been added to the collection of games that I'm able to play. I'm ready to order Tribes II, anyway.

--
All men are great
before declaring war

Re:Does the Market want Linux Games ? Not really.. (3)

nightfire-unique (253895) | more than 13 years ago | (#297518)

It amazes me the lengths people will go to try and convice us that Linux (or Redhat or whatever its called these days) is a viable gaming platform. Time and again the general public has voted with its wallets and bought Windows ME as a games platform or a playstation/dreamcast etc.

Why do Linux people continue with the fantasy that their operating system is anything other than a tool for elitist, arrogant techies (nost of whom long for the days when computers were hard to use, and resent Microsoft for making computers easy for the man in the street).

First of all: take a deep breath. Relax.

I don't think Loki's (or anyone else's) intention is to make Linux a killer gaming platform. I think they're trying to make a few bucks selling games to Linux users.

I am a Linux user. I use Linux (and other Unix flavors) exclusively. I do so not because of arrogance or a love of things complicated, but because for what I do, it works very well. Sure - occasionally I need to access a Windows application, but I do that through Citrix, or VMware. The other 99% of the time, when I'm irc'ing, web browsing, playing mp3's, playing games, administrating servers, writing documentation, or just screwing around, Windows is a hinderance to my style of computing.

I am a member of the market that Loki is targetting. If they create a new market at the same time - great! That would be awesome. If not, there are still (in theory) enough users like me to support their development costs (and take home a nice piece of change). My $0.02.

--
All men are great
before declaring war

All right (1)

Consultant Jon (265243) | more than 13 years ago | (#297524)

Okay, you're right. When I said "these games" I really meant "a lot of the other games that have been released for Linux." I didn't mean to suggest that Tribes 2 was old .. apologies if I implied otherwise (and reading what I wrote, I did.)

But for an example of what I mean by "a lot of the other games", take DOOM. There was a big hubbub about id Software releasing and opening up DOOM for Linux, and this was years after the height of its popularity. Again, don't get me wrong .. DOOM was a great game, perhaps among the best ever, but Joe Sixpack is going to get the wrong impression from this. IMHO we don't need this.

I've never understood why people go for PC gaming anyway .. isn't that what a console, a big-screen TV, and 600 watts of Surround Sound are for?

Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (3)

Consultant Jon (265243) | more than 13 years ago | (#297525)

Am I the only one that is not necessarily pleased by this whole "games for Linux" phenomenon? In my opinion, news like this actually hurts Linux, for at least a couple of reasons:

1) These games are old. Sorry, but Alpha Centauri? Look, you don't need to convince me it was a great game, but the key word there is "was!" When people on the street see news like this, they'll say "Hmm, so this Linux OS is just now getting this game? It must really be behind the times!"

2) To promote Linux as a gaming platform is to promote it as a "toy OS." Yes, I'm aware that Windows is heavily promoted as a gaming platform, but how many technically-savvy people would consider it anything less than a toy OS? Windows at least has the strength of having the "heavyweight" office automation package. If the average guy on the street asks what software is available for Linux, what do you say? "Quake III and Emacs?" We can't have the only high-visibility software for Linux be game software, because then Linux becomes a toy OS.

I think we would do well to avoid having these two misconceptions forced upon Linux. Linux already suffers from the perception of being an operating system that is targeted primarily at political leftists; it would be a shame if we had to add on two more ridiculous and hateful suggestions. I, like most Slashdot readers, love Linux. I know that "Linux is yesterday's technology" is bullshit. I know that "Linux is a toy OS is bullshit." So let's not encourage anything that would lead people to think otherwise, mmmkay?

Re:Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (3)

Consultant Jon (265243) | more than 13 years ago | (#297526)

All right, how is Linux "targeted primarily at political leftists?"

Well, maybe this was a bit strongly-worded. But it doesn't take a world-renowned detective to figure out that a lot of the hard-line, anti-corporate, Seattle-protester types are big into Linux. This does not help Linux's public image, IMHO. On top of that, there was the unfortunate (and IMHO hateful) story that Slashdot ran about how Linux was supposed to become the offical OS of the People's Republic of China.

As I write this we can all be thankful that our servicemen are on their way home from China. But I have to admit that I felt a bit guilty booting into Linux, knowing that those innocent people were being held hostage, while at the same time I was using their captors' favorite OS without giving it a second thought. I know this is silly; "one thing has nothing to do with the other", as they say .. but still, there was some sort of primal guilt that I was powerless to overcome. I keep telling myself that using Linux is not going to turn me into a leftist, but some irrational part of me (that part of the brain that invents monsters under the bed, no doubt) is working overtime to convince me otherwise.

At any rate, you're right .. I should have left the comment out altogether. It doesn't change my basic position, though. Linux is a serious OS, and anybody that has ever used it is well aware of that. We need to be doing whatever is possible to reinforce its image as a serious OS. Gaming news doesn't help that goal (IMHO.)

Re:Alpha Centauri - what was the holdup? (1)

astr0boy (265689) | more than 13 years ago | (#297527)

why would you wait for alpha centauri. play it once on the easy setting and win, go back a second time on the hardest setting and you win again. it is the easiest game on the face of the earth, tetris is more entertaining.

-----

Re:Eh? Whats the point of this? (1)

MwtrV (311470) | more than 13 years ago | (#297533)

What a load of shit. And modded as +4... just goes to show you it's all in the UID. If someone with a greater UID was saying this it would be nothing more then -1, Shit.

Continue to draw generalizations about Linux users and all the while wonder why Linux doesn't catch on -- mabye it's generalizations that are doing it rather then the actual userbase. Claim it isn't putting out games fast enough, nevermind there is only one company actually working on that. State it needs DirectX -- who cares if that library is almost 100% controlled by Microsoft and attached to Windows -- and back that up with "now even consoles are getting it" (yeah, microsoft consoles.)

Linux can't become mainstream with the magical wave of a wand (much as mandrake would have us believe.) It takes lots of work. But I also do not think it is completely fair to say it needs to become "mainstream." Why? There are certain reasons it will never become "mainstream" it can't get around! There is no way they can be fixed. Certain aspects of the system can get fixed, but by and by the things this person is complaining about -- ie, it not being able to do what Windows does with certain apps -- are not things that can be remedied, atleast right away. Mabye not even EVER.

This is a complete troll. Ironic thing is, while this person may have been admirable for being around from the beginning he still makes sloppy, shoddy and poor declarations about users and conditions of a particular operating system and in the parent ultimately doesn't have anymore insight then the most insipid warez kiddie he claims to despise.

Re:Games for Linux not necessarily a good thing (3)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 13 years ago | (#297536)

Yes, I'm aware that Windows is heavily promoted as a gaming platform, but how many technically-savvy people would consider it anything less than a toy OS?

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. If you mean howmany people think that Windows is nothing more than a Toy OS, you have another thing comming. Most companies, you know the kind that make cool stuff to buy, and make money doing it, use Windows at least in part. Often you'll find that very tech savvy people work at these companies (like, say ID Software). Windows is not, by any stretch of the imagination a toy OS. It is used for games, but it is also used to do lots of serious work.

Actually, if I had to call any OS a toy OS, it would be Linux, but I don't mean that in a condecending way. Linux is a great os for people that want to play around. You have porbably a hundred different WMs to choose from and countless looks. You can hack around with the kernal and basically, play with the OS to your heart's content. It's the ultimate toy OS in that it's a hacker's toy. It's great fun for techies to play with and really, that's how it got its start.

Re:Piracy (1)

CrackElf (318113) | more than 13 years ago | (#297537)

Actually there is a cool games store in the local mall that stocks loki games (who does best buy anyway???):)
-CrackElf

Asheron's Call (1)

Garinwirth (325774) | more than 13 years ago | (#297542)

Considering AC is published by Microsoft, I think you're out of luck.

Game Ports (2)

Bruha (412869) | more than 13 years ago | (#297550)

Now only if they would port asherons call over to linux native. I would be very happy.

MOD PARENT UP! (1)

Craterer (442012) | more than 13 years ago | (#297553)

Thanks for the info! I never bothered getting Q3A for Linux because I haven't been able to find it for the same price or less than the Windows version; I might just have to get Q3A and others from EBGames.com now.
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