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197 comments

AAPL could buy NOK (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41572953)

That would solve their map problem.

They can afford it.

Everyone will be happy.

But MSFT.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (4, Insightful)

MacDork (560499) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573043)

I remember getting my N95 just before the first iPhone came out. It came installed with a map app that included directions and navigation. Then a software update removed navigation and made it a paid feature. I refused to update and decided I didn't want a Nokia after that.

Nokia burned what good will they had with me. Apple is now doing the same thing to their users.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573135)

Offline maps with directions and turn by turn navigation are now days free with Nokias. I use Nokia 701 for navigation when biking. Maps are amazingly accurate.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (-1, Redundant)

davester666 (731373) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573371)

Um, what?? From reports, Google wanted to keep their navigation support for Android only, so Apple HAD to switch map providers [not the only reason, but one of them]. And Apple IS providing this navigation support FOR FREE, even for people who bought their iPhone 4S's a year ago [which is the opposite of what you write Nokia has done].

And you still have the option of using Google Maps or other mapping apps.

Everybody seems to be treating this as if the map data is fixed in ROM and can never be improved.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573499)

Nokia maps are free when you buy a phone and have been for a while

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (5, Informative)

Kenja (541830) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573591)

Your reports are flawed, Google wanted to brand the map app if it was going to include all the Google map features. Apple refused to let a Google logo tarnish the iPhone.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (-1, Redundant)

Moridineas (213502) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573919)

If the articles are to be trusted (which I have no idea of), the claim was that Google would not allow Apple access to turn-by-turn voice nav without also both enabling Google Latitude (i.e., Google tracking) and increasing branding. Don't pretend it was JUST a branding issue.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41574253)

Latitude is a completely optional opt-in feature similar to Foursquare. Don't try to paint it as some sinister tracking system.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41574447)

Yep. Apple basically wanted their users to believe the were "Apple Maps".
Google said No.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (3, Insightful)

bogaboga (793279) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573905)

...From reports...

*cough*, *cough*...which ones?

...Google wanted to keep their navigation support for Android only...

You made that one up, right?

Can you please go away? Go home!

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (1)

noh8rz9 (2716595) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574393)

whatever, it's facts. google added turn by turn navigation to its android but refused to extend it to apple. you think apple was voluntarily withholidng turn by turn from its customers? duh, no. if apple wanted to offer users the best it had to roll its own maps. so stfu.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (1)

astrodoom (1396409) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574579)

That, my friend, is an over-simplified concept of business. No-one "withholds", "refuses", or "adds" any functionality to another company's product without some form of licensing agreement being reached. Apple did not want to give Google what Google wanted for the features. This is not in any way the same as saying Google "refused" to give them turn by turn navigation.
Here's a link to an article talking about some of the insights from sources. Sadly with things like this, there's no such thing as source data, so we'll just have to go with the sources and articles. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2209539/Apple-replaced-Google-Maps-iPhone-5-controversial-app-wasnt-pleased-Android-turn-turn-voice-navigation.html [dailymail.co.uk]

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573457)

Around the 5800, mapping, including directions and navigation, became free again.

Then MS introduced their mole, and Nokia died. Everybody who was good left back then.

What's left is everything you disliked about Nokia, led by the "spirit" of MS. (As in: On the very day where MS's probation officer for their last crime went away, they introduced that IE on the new Nokias could not be replaced, and you couldn't install any other browser [Like Opera]. *Again*)

I loved Nokia... from the tiny 8210, over the first “full computer” smartphone 7650, those with the full keyboard like the 6822, the whole early N series, and of course the glorious N900. The 5800 was the first one I didn't like. Too Apple. Too dumbed-down. Too little freedom and power.

But I *hate* everything about the MS Nokia "phones". It's like MS, as usually, imitated the worst parts of Apple, and then added their own FAIL (think Zune) to the mix. The worst of both.

Why anyone likes that, is beyond me. I would need to receive so many electric shocks, I'd be physically incapable of not drooling all over myself, *and* become a real masochist, before I could even stand that.

I'll continue to watch what that team that left Nokia is doing. I hope they're not ignoring the high-end market too much...

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (2)

green1 (322787) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573951)

Similar here, I bought a nokia N series tablet, one of the advertised features was offline mapping. Nowhere did it mention anything about extra charges, Until you had bought the device and tried to use the maps to find out that they wanted over $100 more for limited time access to the maps that were already loaded on the device, and were an advertised feature of the device. I vowed right then never to buy another Nokia product.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (0)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573271)

Yes, Apple with a bag of actual patents to abuse would make everyone happy ... assuming you wouldn't mind Apple being the only smartphone manufacturer.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (3, Insightful)

tqk (413719) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573745)

Yes, Apple with a bag of actual patents to abuse would make everyone happy ...

Just sayin': not me. I don't give a rat's ass what Apple or Google are up to, nor do I use either in any way. With a gun at my head, I admit I'd choose Android, but I'd root it before I trusted it enough to actually use it.

Nokia signed away maps to Microsoft (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41574599)

Except that maps was part of the $2 billion deal with Microsoft. So if they ever perfect their maps, every other Windows phone provider will have access to it as part of their phone license fee to MS.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2011/feb11/02-11partnership.aspx

"Nokia Maps would be a core part of Microsoft’s mapping services. For example, Maps would be integrated with Microsoft’s Bing search engine and adCenter advertising platform to form a unique local search and advertising experience"

People said Elop was making a mistake, that giving away Maps and Patents in exchange for $2 billion in marketing money for a WP7 phone, was dumb. I think he hoped that he could keep it together, pump the $2 billion into Nokia, claim his bonus and leave before it all falls apart, like he'd done at previous appointments.

Just think if they'd made an Android phone they could be enjoying the same sort of success that Samsung is enjoying now.

Re:AAPL could buy NOK (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574645)

Actually, Apple has made noticeable strides in improving their maps. It'll be interesting to see if Slashdot ever gets around to posting that story.

AAPL could buy TomTom (4, Insightful)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | about a year and a half ago | (#41575267)

AAPL could also buy TomTom, one of the main suppliers of maps for IOS6. According to TomTom, their data is fine, but the integration of their data and other sources seems to be causing Apples problems on IOS6. Nokia has the legacy weight of a phone division, while TomTom is barely making any hardware themselves these days and is only into maps and services related to that. At the current price point, TomTom would be far more interesting for AAPL than NOK would be.

TomTom already has an extreme amount of experience in making map applications work on several platforms and they have a foot in the door with several car manufacturers that use TomTom data and applications on their on-board systems. This would give them an entrance in a market they currently are not in. How would you think "iTunes on your car" and "iOS apps on your car" would sound to most people? The first car to offer that would no doubt get a lot of publicity and sales, unless it was a true lemon. TomTom could very well be their entrance into that market and Nokia only has Navteq maps and a bunch of patents as a valuable asset. The patents are being sold off rapidly to fund the rest of the company, so the merit of that is rapidly diminishing. Putting a suffering phone division against the Navteq bit, you don't have a lot of value left I think.

iOmess 6 (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41572969)

Don't do it! [imgur.com]

Re:iOmess 6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573017)

Funny.

Re:iOmess 6 (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573345)

I really wish people would stop focusing on the iOS 6 Maps fiasco. It's getting old.

Plus, it's distracting from things like:

* The music app is now buggy as all hell. I've had it play one song while saying it's playing another song. Not to mention it randomly forgetting where in a playlist it was, pausing randomly skipping back to the beginning of the song, and other general wonkiness.
* If you had paused a podcast and receive a call, hanging up the call will suddenly start the podcast playing again. Surprise!
* The podcast app can't update podcasts. You can tell it to - but it won't. The only way to get new episodes is to sync with iTunes.
* Photo syncing is just hilariously broken. Rather than replacing existing photos, iTunes will just copy a new set on, leaving you with all the old photos as permanent "extra" storage. Solution: Do a factory reset. Hope you don't need any of your *other* data!
* Just try and set an alarm to 2 o'clock. [twitter.com]
* Battery life is worse.
* Apps are just generally slower - animation is noticeably "jerkier" in iOS 6.

And I'm sure other iOS 6 users can expand on this. iOS 6 is just laughably bad - even if you completely ignore the maps!

Re:iOmess 6 (1)

Chuq (8564) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573565)

Regarding the alarm bug... I notice that user is in Australia, and we started daylight saving at 2am last night... related?

Re:iOmess 6 (3, Interesting)

tqk (413719) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573803)

Regarding the alarm bug... I notice that user is in Australia, and we started daylight saving at 2am last night... related?

Damn, that joke never gets old. Neither MS nor Apple can figure out how to handle time in 2012? Wow.

alias dst='zdump -v Canada/Mountain | grep 2012'
(0) kiak /home/keeling_ dst
Canada/Mountain Sun Mar 11 08:59:59 2012 UTC = Sun Mar 11 01:59:59 2012 MST isdst=0 gmtoff=-25200
Canada/Mountain Sun Mar 11 09:00:00 2012 UTC = Sun Mar 11 03:00:00 2012 MDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-21600
Canada/Mountain Sun Nov 4 07:59:59 2012 UTC = Sun Nov 4 01:59:59 2012 MDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-21600
Canada/Mountain Sun Nov 4 08:00:00 2012 UTC = Sun Nov 4 01:00:00 2012 MST isdst=0 gmtoff=-25200

"ImBECiles. Ultra-maroons!" -- Bugs Bunny.

Re:iOmess 6 (1)

tqk (413719) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573825)

Sorry, "dst" is actually:
alias dst="zdump -v Canada/Mountain | grep $(date '+%Y')"
FWIW.

Re:iOmess 6 (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41574313)

While not defending MS or Apple, daylight savings time is actually bloody hard to handle. Even a country as small as Australia (people wise) has a constantly changing daylight savings dates and then each state can and often does have different policy on daylight saving which can change at the drop of a hat. Australia only has 6 states and 2 territories, now expand that same problem out to the rest of the world.

Re:iOmess 6 (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573623)

Quick, Steve died so nobody's looking...let's do a Bain Capital on this bitch and rape its corpse! Bonuses and golden parachutes for all executives!

And they're saying that the iPhone 5 is going to singlehandedly rescue the American economy! [washingtonpost.com] PfffffHAW!

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:iOmess 6 (0)

Pseudonym Authority (1591027) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574605)

Having golden parachutes and automatic bonuses is a defense mechanism from corporate raiders like Bain Capital. So is having huge amounts of debt. It makes it unattractive to assholes who do that shit.

Re:iOmess 6 (1)

antdude (79039) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574653)

Another reason to avoid the new release and wait for updates until things are stable. ;)

What about websites? (1)

SuperMooCow (2739821) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573021)

You can sign up and have the ability to embed Google Maps on your website with predefined points on the map and all, what other company allows this?

Re:What about websites? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573301)

www.mapquest.com

Re:What about websites? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573451)

Wish I could mod you up as you did answer the question.

A whois shows mapquest.com is Netscape / America Online Inc (I didn't know)
may be that's the reason you were modded down. - AOL leaves a lasting bitter taste.

Re:What about websites? (4, Interesting)

solanum (80810) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573423)

Offline maps. When I got rid of my Nokia N8 and bought a Samsung SIII, there were two things I missed, one is the camera (the N8's was far better in several ways), the other is the maps. With the Nokia you got offline maps for the entire world and the app itself was excellent (though it had teething problems to start with). Turn by turn directions that don't sound like a robot (I'm looking at you Google), were as good as or better than most commercial Sat Nav devices, accurate (looking at you Apple), regularly updated and, I'll say it again, offline maps! In Australia at least you can be quite often out of range of a decent data connection.

The commercial Navigon app that I got bundled with my SIII is definitely inferior and you only get maps for Oceania, I have to buy the European/US ones if I need them.

Re:What about websites? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41574199)

With the newest version of google maps, you can just download parts of the map that you need. Navigation still won't work, but you can navigate "by hand".

no you can't (1)

nazsco (695026) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574283)

google maps only allow offline maps in certain locations.

useless when you are in said locations because they all have coverage.

go overseas or to desert places and you get a nice warning about offline maps not being available.

Re:no you can't (2)

CxDoo (918501) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574499)

Yeah well you can go to a overseas desert place like Cyprus and get nothing on Nokia Maps too. Try and see.

Strikes me as unbelievable but Nokia actually did remove a whole country from its maps because of political pressure.

Re:What about websites? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41575191)

Make sure to read the TOS carefully when you use Nokia/NAVTEQ maps. In exchange for giving you free maps, you give Nokia the rights to track your every movement.

I used to work for NAVTEQ and we used this probe data to find where people were going and to try to find out if there were new roads that were missing in existing maps. Some carriers (i.e. T-Mobile) also allowed us to pay extra to get demographic information so we could expand our advertising efforts to.

Re:What about websites? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41575237)

OsmAnd will be your friend. It's a free and open source android app which uses OpenStreetmap data.

Re:What about websites? (2)

kakaburra (2508064) | about a year and a half ago | (#41575247)

You can always cache google maps.. menu->make available offline->select an area.. Though I should admit it cumbersome..

Feel the hate, my hateful friends! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573081)

Just can't resist taking a jab at Apple? Wow. Glad that technology is now on the same level as a mindless religion to so-called nerds and geeks.

Re:Feel the hate, my hateful friends! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573197)

Isn't it Apple fandom that's become a mindless religion?

Don't you think perhaps that's why sane people mock you the way we mock scientology and other douchbaggery?

Re:Feel the hate, my hateful friends! (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574675)

Don't you think perhaps that's why sane people mock you the way we mock scientology and other douchbaggery?

Just because a bunch of noisy people agree with you doesn't mean you're sane.

Re:Feel the hate, my hateful friends! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573383)

They are taking the jab because apple most defiantly isn't at the same level as even windows phone.

Re:Feel the hate, my hateful friends! (2)

tqk (413719) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573901)

They are taking the jab because apple most defiantly isn't at the same level as even windows phone.

Defiantly, or definitely? I like the former, fwiw. Hahaaaaa. :-|

PS (full disclosure). I want neither an iBauble nor a WP*, but would accept a rooted Android if there were a gun pointed at my head. Just sayin'.

Coincidence? (2, Interesting)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573093)

After losing pretty much all of its traction in the mobile space, Microsoft has been trying desperately to build some buzz for the new Windows Phone and upcoming Windows tablets - and here we have a story about Nokia's mapping efforts.

While possibly interesting, I expect the timing of this story is, shall we say, not completely a matter of happenstance.

Despite what you think... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573211)

A good friend of mine works in this department as a product manager; he has been there since they were NavTeq. You should take a look at Nokia's financials before busting out the "M$ evil" conspiracy theories. The navigation unit is the only part of the company that is profitable right now. They have excellent data (probably the best available, mention is halfway down the page [economist.com]) and they do a lot more with it than put it in phones. Basically, anybody who needs to have vetted data (ie, when salesmen need to tell clients that the data is better than what they can get online for free) to put in a product use Nokia maps. Many high-end cars with built in navigation are using them for example.

The higher-ups at Nokia know this. They are trying to leverage this to position the company for growth. Their internal mantra is that "Google is what, Microsoft is who, and we are _where_". Hence, the publicity: this is the only bright spot for Nokia and they need to milk it. If you ask me, they are grasping at straws; but the I can see the logic.

Re:Despite what you think... (3, Interesting)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573975)

How does this mesh with the fact that Nokia has licensed its maps to Microsoft for use on all WP8 devices (not just Nokias)?

Re:Despite what you think... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41574201)

Are you retarded? They make money by licensing their map data to Microsoft.

Re:Despite what you think... (3, Interesting)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574587)

It was pretty much the sole differentiating factor for their phones, though. Now they've licensed it out, not anymore. Why even bother with phones, then?

Re:Despite what you think... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41575127)

Nokia still make phones!?

Re:Despite what you think... (2)

another random user (2645241) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574973)

Look at what was Acorn Computers - they were doing badly with their actual computer sales which was the core of their business and ended up disappearing, but one of their subsidiaries (Arm holdings) is now doing very well by licensing out their designs.

Perhaps the same could happen with Nokia. Moving their focus away from manufacturing complete systems and allowing departments to focus on licencing of elements that can be used by other manufacturers could turn them into a very profitable organisation. Maybe the company won't continue in it's current form, but that's not to say it can't continue on in a different form.

Re:Despite what you think... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41574011)

Unfortunately, that won't really matter to people as long as Google Maps are "good enough."

Re:Despite what you think... (2)

21mhz (443080) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574503)

Unfortunately, that won't really matter to people as long as Google Maps are "good enough."

But they aren't, as anyone who tried to use them while roaming can attest. Hint: you'd better disable data in roaming except the times when it's absolutely necessary. Which is often, when you're trying to use something that tries to use caching as poor substitute for real offline maps.

why didn't someone just patent the internet map? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573207)

then there would be no need for all this useless competition!

Not the only respectable ones (2)

evilviper (135110) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573247)

Why the slashvertisment for NAVTEQ? They're not the only option out there. TeleAtlas (TomTom) is similarly licensing their map data, and is used by maps and navigation apps, particularly by or for companies who are direct competitors with Nokia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tele_Atlas [wikipedia.org]

http://www.gpsreview.net/navteq-vs-tele-atlas/ [gpsreview.net]

For the record, I have never worked for either company.

Re:Not the only respectable ones (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573321)

Because TeleAtlas data is the back end for iOS, and we know how that's going.

Re:Not the only respectable ones (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573355)

That's fucking hilarious!

Re:Not the only respectable ones (4, Insightful)

evilviper (135110) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573433)

TeleAtlas isn't to blame for most of the iPhone Maps app problems I've heard about. You can blame the map provider if a road is missing or mislabled, or an address is down the street, but that's about it.

The failed searches and missing home/business locations are a matter of Apple's POI search system being horrible (something Google does well), which switching to NAVTEQ or any other map provider won't fix for them.

Re:Not the only respectable ones (1)

_xeno_ (155264) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573551)

TeleAtlas isn't to blame for most of the iPhone Maps app problems I've heard about. You can blame the map provider if a road is missing or mislabled, or an address is down the street, but that's about it.

I could have sworn most of the iOS map problems were stuff like mislabeled streets and misplaced POI items. Stuff like towns entirely missing from the maps, or the inclusion of roads that don't exist in the map, or features that simply don't exist being shown (such as an entire town being drawn as a park).

I don't have much experience with Apple Maps, having only "used" the navigation feature once. It did give directions that went past where we were actually going, so that was OK - but it decided that not only was the destination address on the wrong side of the road, it was about a block up from where it really was.

So maybe the POI search is horrible too, I've never used it. (Although I have seen screenshots of someone searching for "Apple Store" with the map centered on an Apple Store and the app failing to find it.) But there are definitely more issues than just POIs being hard to find or placed wrong - the maps are just flat-out bad in many cases.

Re:Not the only respectable ones (2)

evilviper (135110) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573979)

Hard to say which is REALLY the bigger problem. But going by the CNET article, though they mentioned one map inaccuracy, mostly they complained about POI being horrid, which they say Apple is getting from Yelp.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57517404-37/apple-maps-in-ios-6-what-you-need-to-know-faq/ [cnet.com]

For the map inaccuracies I've seen, I would assume Apple's server-side software is to blame. Things like nothing but a single highway on Grand Cayman Island just reeks of the server generating the maps from some high-level global map, and not properly including the region-specific map data. Other big empty sections could similarly be attributed to Apple's server-side failing to include a specific map file for that region.

I have no desire to defend TeleAtlas/TomTom, but I speak from experience when I say I found their maps to be nearly as good as NAVTEQ. And the integration issues Apple is having, like the altitude data not aligning with the aerial photos in the 3D flyover, again indicates some server-side issue, where the two layers of data are not being aligned properly. Perhaps most damming, TomTom makes navigation devices, which uses this same map data, and I haven't heard such shreiks about inaccuracy with those devices.

If you've run into lots of navigation issues, then I concede it's *probably* due to inaccuracies in the TeleAtlas map data. But Google and NAVTEQ are both far from error-free, directing you to enter an address from the back, a block over, where there's no entrance... directing you to drive in a big circle around a block because it's unaware of an intersection or stop-light... and many more such issues. My solution is simply to keep TWO different apps installed on my phone, to get a second opinion when one seems to be taking me off-track.

Re:Not the only respectable ones (1)

f00zbll (526151) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574065)

I've worked with many GIS frameworks and usually the POI data is part of the GIS database. You can always add to it, but it comes with a base set of POI. The problem isn't as simple as "it's apple's fault." It's actually a combination of missing/bad data and poorly implemented search. Take for example searching for a street number on a specific street. Often times, the actual location is several hundred feet away from what the GIS database has. The only way to fix that is to correct the data. Searching GIS database using GPS lat/long isn't that straight forward. On your smart phone look at how the accuracy fluctuates while you're stationary. Therefore searching based on location isn't that simple. If you're on a one way street, but you want to be on the next street over how is the systems suppose to give you directions? Clearly, once you get into the nitty gritty of GIS search, the problem is far from trivial. It's easy to say a bunch of non-sense when you don't actually understand the domain and the finer detailers.

Re:Not the only respectable ones (0, Troll)

evilviper (135110) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574207)

It's easy to say a bunch of non-sense when you don't actually understand the domain and the finer detailers.

I've worked for one of the biggest industry names, with the top products in maps/navigation, for several years... I've clearly been far deeper down in the implementation details than you have. Multiple search systems, POI providers, maps providers, geocoding and reverse geocoding systems, working out continually rotating bugs with each release of the map data, layers not lining up, and far, far, more. Hell, those "GIS frameworks" you used are likely to have included one I put together.

The problem isn't as simple as "it's apple's fault." It's actually a combination of missing/bad data and poorly implemented search.

The "search" part is directly Apple's fault. The "data" part is at least partially Apple's fault, and more to the point, seems to have nothing to do with TeleAtlas, as sources say they're getting their POI from Yelp.

Most mapping systems don't use the POI info from NAVTEQ/TeleAtlas, as it's quite incomplete. At the very least, it needs to be aggregated with another separate source of (BETTER!) POI data. If Apple was depending on TeleAtlas (or NAVTEQ) POI, they'd be idiots for doing it. And again, indications are that they are using Yelp, anyhow.

It just sounds to me like you're excusing their incompetence because you're at about that same level, yourself.

Re:Not the only respectable ones (1)

whoever57 (658626) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574609)

I think TomTom has given up on POI data. I have a stand-alone TomTom device and the POI data never gets updated when I connect it to a PC and ask for updates. Assuming it has the correct address, the navigation is excellent.

Keeping up to date (5, Interesting)

gr8_phk (621180) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573359)

Some cars have forward facing cameras already for lane keeping systems or lane departure warning. Some of these cameras can read signs and let you know if you're speeding, etc. Ultimately it may be the car companies who have the best maps which might be updated continuously by tens of millions of cars. Hmmm time for me to transfer to the driver assistance systems part of the company....

This may also explain why Google wants driverless cars, so they can fully automate the data collection.

Re:Keeping up to date (1)

rasmusbr (2186518) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574063)

This may also explain why Google wants driverless cars, so they can fully automate the data collection.

There's that and there's the tens of billions of dollars that they might make over time by selling self-driving technology to car makers. Another win for Google is that people who ride self-driving cars are presumably going to spend more time watching ads than people who drive do.

Re:Keeping up to date (1)

nazsco (695026) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574301)

I doubt most of what you told us.

car lane "cameras" are dumb sensors last time I checked (long time ago I confess)

Re:Keeping up to date (1)

Dahan (130247) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574555)

I don't know about forward facing cameras, but I know the 2013 Nissan Altima uses a rear-facing video camera (mounted above the rear license plate) for its lane departure warning, blind spot warning, and of course, as a rear view camera.

The maps are fine, but what about AGPS? (1)

TBB303 (1358473) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573487)

As an N900 owner I've been extremely annoyed that I've had to switch to use Google's AGPS service because Nokia's hasn't been available for N900 for quite some time now... and for someone who needs those maps in an urban setting, just regular GPS won't cut it. And I remember users of other Nokia models complaining about the same problem. Map data alone isn't enough, and I would rather not provide Google with my location every time I need a map.

Re:The maps are fine, but what about AGPS? (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573699)

If you have a hate on for Google, try one of these [openstreetmap.org]. Plenty do offline maps as well.

Re:The maps are fine, but what about AGPS? (1)

TBB303 (1358473) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574085)

Maps aren't the problem, the problem is that users are reporting problems using the assisted GPS feature which speeds up getting a GPS fix. Everybody's solution to the problem is to use Google's supl service, and it works somewhat. Fortunately I most of the time have a pretty good idea where I am though, and Nokia's maps are good. I also don't have a hate on Google, but truth is, some of us actually care about our privacy...

Re:The maps are fine, but what about AGPS? (3, Informative)

xSacha (1000771) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573777)

supl.nokia.com works fine. Don't know what you're talking about. All Nokia phones use the Nokia AGPS server.

Re:The maps are fine, but what about AGPS? (1)

TBB303 (1358473) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574057)

Just because you don't know doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist; I did have this problem, and quick research into the matter revealed similar experiences on both the maemo.org users forum and other sites, both by N900 and other model users. And they all sang the same solution to the problem: supl.google.com. If I absolutely need a quick GPS fix I can use that, it's just that the fix doesn't seem quite as exact as that from Nokia's own supl server.

Re:The maps are fine, but what about AGPS? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41573799)

Google is not the only AGPS provider. I have an Android phone and I usually find Rx Networks AGPS works better. You should try them out.

Re:The maps are fine, but what about AGPS? (1)

Dr Max (1696200) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573935)

Interesting you say that because the new nokia phones have AGPS, Glonass (russian gps), and WLAN Network Positioning.

Re:The maps are fine, but what about AGPS? (1)

TBB303 (1358473) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574099)

Some of us don't feel it's necessary to get a new smartphone every 2 years... this same thing happened with the N810 tablet, and the problem has been reported both on N900 and some other Nokia models more recent than N900.

Re:The maps are fine, but what about AGPS? (1)

Dr Max (1696200) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574443)

I've only bought one smart phone (it's a nexus s) i was just mentioning it because they have obviously noticed the problem and have fixed it with new devices.

LIDAR: brilliant addition (1)

Maow (620678) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573875)

TFA says that Nokia's "street view" cars are also equipped with LIDAR -- this strikes me as brilliant.

In addition, they use fleets of commercial vehicles (i.e. Fedex) to complement their data and detect new "road segments".

I'd use Nokia maps in a heartbeat if it were available on Android.

Sounds impressively innovative.

Re:LIDAR: brilliant addition (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574023)

Bing pretty much completely depends on Nokia maps. You can find a semi working bing app for Android. I hope bing comes with a proper app soon, I am tried of relying on Google.

Who needs maps? (1)

ozduo (2043408) | about a year and a half ago | (#41573917)

when there is always someone telling me where to go and it's a place called "fuck"?

Just compared the quality (1)

epSos-de (2741969) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574021)

Just compared the map quality for remote villages in the biggest country of the world. Google's images for the satellite view are better. The classic map is OK. The names and even the train stops are shown, unlike in Google. The German map. Is also comparable to the one from Google. I would say that the 3D failed for me, becasue it kept saying that I need the correct browser, which I was already using. Conclusion, better than the maps from Yahoo, but not as good as the maps from Goggle. Page Layout and speed is excellent in Europe. Go try: http://maps.nokia.com/ [nokia.com]

Re:Just compared the quality (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574039)

Er, yahoo (and bing while we are it) use Nokia Maps. Do you see a difference between Yahoo maps and maps.nokia.com?

Re:Just compared the quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41575047)

interesting. i just tried nokia maps, searched for the city i live in and wastold "that place doesnt exist any more". quite a surprise early on a sunday morning...

Quiet? (1)

metalmaster (1005171) | about a year and a half ago | (#41574635)

What's so quiet about Nokia maps? Tim Cook named Nokia maps in his apology letter. I'm sure that someone, whether it be Samsung, Google, Apple pr maybe even HTC, will turn that letter into a TV or radio commercial. It may have happened already. I just haven't seen it. The reason I say this is because Cook expressly says "create a shortcut to Google maps." A statement like that is ripe for advertising abuse.
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