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HTC Profits Drop By 79%

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the fading-fast dept.

Businesses 209

An anonymous reader writes "HTC is the world's fifth largest phone maker, but it's starting to feel some serious pressure from giants like Samsung and Apple. HTC's third quarter net income dropped 79% from the previous quarter, and total revenues were down 48%. 'Sales of HTC's flagship One series, which debuted in February, are trailing off as Apple and Samsung spend four to six times more on marketing to ensure the iPhone 5 and the Galaxy SIII dominate the market, while strongly subsidizing their older models ... HTC's share of the global smartphone market by shipments fell to 5.8% in the second quarter from 10.7% a year earlier, according to Bloomberg. The company released its first Windows Phone 8 models in September, its most high-profile pre-Christmas launch, but Microsoft's operating system has yet to establish itself as a serious third player after Google's Android and Apple's iOS.'"

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209 comments

GOOD !! THEY BREAK UN SANCTIONS !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606001)

HTC supplies Iran with product !!

Re:GOOD !! THEY BREAK UN SANCTIONS !! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606031)

I have trouble faulting a company from Taiwan for disregarding the UN, as the UN insists on disregarding Taiwan.

Re:GOOD !! THEY BREAK UN SANCTIONS !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606631)

I have trouble faulting a company from Taiwan for disregarding the UN, as the UN insists on disregarding Taiwan.

True, but if I was Taiwan, I would be weary of disregarding US opinions, regardless of UN parroting them or not. OTOH, strategically significant allies, like Taiwan, Israel, or Turkey, have quite large benefits.

Re:GOOD !! THEY BREAK UN SANCTIONS !! (1)

MrNaz (730548) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606925)

Given that the US needs Taiwan far, far more than Taiwan needs the US, I think Taiwan can do whatever the hell they want. Taiwan remaining independent is more important to the US than it is to Taiwan.

Re:GOOD !! THEY BREAK UN SANCTIONS !! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606505)

That bit me when I bought an unlocked HTC phone for travelling.

I call it the Islamofacist phone (note: I've nothing against most Muslims I've met, but I do have something against countries that force it on their citizens, and companies that resell such phones as unlocked).

Most of the applications wouldn't work, you couldn't use the app store or install unapproved apps. Most installed apps didn't work except (a) the web browser, oddly enough. (B) A prayer time reminder (that you couldn't turn off, but could set to local or Mecca time), a Koran reader, and similarly themed app.

At that point, why the hell bother with a smartphone?

Re:GOOD !! THEY BREAK UN SANCTIONS !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606555)

Oh it also had a Farsi keyboard and keylogger/spyware.

The company that sold it wouldn't provide support (BrainStorm I believe, maybe MindStorm?), and Newegg wouldn't allow a return.

GRRRR. Thanks for reminding me of that waste of $150 fucking dollars

It's because they removed the SD Card (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606035)

The HTC Vivid was the last AT&T phone that had a MicroSD slot. The One X variants and subsequent models do not.

Of course, the carriers hate SD slots, because they would rather you eat up all of your data accessing your stuff in the "cloud." Google is also all-to-happy to remove the SD slot for the same reason, because they want to access your data, too, and it's easier for them if you're storing it on their hard drives.

I absolutely will not buy a phone or tablet that does not have an SD slot. If they all stop offering them, I'll just keep limping along on my Inspire until it dies, and then I'll go get a prepaid dumb phone.

Smart phones are fun toys, but they are useless unless I can store my music and videos directly on them.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606057)

but they are useless unless I can store my music and videos directly on them

or on an SD card. Make your mind up

I can't tell if you need a whooosh or not. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606175)

Yes, the OP was saying that since the HTC doesn't have an SD card, people like him who think smartphones "are useless unless I can store my music and videos directly on them" won't buy and therefore the HTC isn't selling "because they removed the SD Card".

Where, precisely, is the mind making up supposed to occur where it hasn't already been steady?

Re:I can't tell if you need a whooosh or not. (1)

yincrash (854885) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606205)

Not the same AC here, but I'm pretty sure that post meant that if you are storing music / video directly on the phone, you are not storing it on the sd card, because they are distinctly different items.

Re:I can't tell if you need a whooosh or not. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606243)

Precisely

Re:I can't tell if you need a whooosh or not. (1)

vettemph (540399) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606297)

This is clearly a 'Local' VS 'Remote' issue.
Local being the external or internal storage.
Remote being Google network storage(call it cloud if it makes you feel modern).

  Please do apply the whooosh to this pointless nitpicking.

OK, but I read that "on the device" differently (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606317)

BEcause an SD card in the slot IS "on the device" and SD cards are cheaper by MB than on-device storage. And, moreover, because his rant was against all the providers wanting the data on "the cloud" so that access to it meant profit, even a pack of SD cards that CAN be inserted by selecting one is most definitely not in the cloud and therefore on the device (if only in potentia).

Definitely not coffusing or poorly written enough to demand a "Make your mind up" post.

Re:OK, but I read that "on the device" differently (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606359)

OK, but I read that "on the device" differently to you.

An SD card is not a phone.. Nitpicking or accurate?

If a point cannot be made clearly do not make it. Do not be ambiguous in your use of language or confusion will result

Re:I can't tell if you need a whooosh or not. (2)

ByOhTek (1181381) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606433)

Correct, but I think it was an imprecision on the language rather than an uncertainty.

I've said similar before myself.

There is not enough room on any phone/tablet's built in memory to hold what I want to put on them, but with SD/microSD cards, the usually have enough. Unless you swap the card a lot, you just start to think of it as part of the phone, because you don't have to remove it. And with some phones I've had (looking at you samsuck), I've had to take the battery cover off and even take out the battery in a couple cases, to swap the card. At that point, it might as well be part of the phone.

Agreed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606117)

I've been considering the Nexus 7 (as well as Galaxy Nexus) for a long time now, and I think I've finally concluded that I will not purchase either due to the lack of basic expandable storage. Any suggestions from the slashdot crowd?

Re:Agreed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606333)

CM10 + USB OTG adapter + flash drive = expandable storage on N7 or any other Android device without an SD card slot.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

ArcherB (796902) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606143)

Of course, the carriers hate SD slots, because they would rather you eat up all of your data accessing your stuff in the "cloud."

You can't say that about all carriers. Sprint, for example, offers unlimited data. I don't even think they offer a tiered plan where data is concerned. Since Sprint would gain nothing by forcing you to use bandwidth, I'm sure they'd prefer you to access data locally rather than bogging down their networks for no benefit.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606461)

I believe they do have limited data plans, but they aren't much cheaper than the lower end plans with data, so most don't bother unless they are really desperate to save money.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (4, Interesting)

pstorry (47673) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606147)

I can agree with this.

I've got a HTC Desire Z, which is coming up for an upgrade on my contract. As a tablet, I have a HTC Flyer (bought at steep discount recently).

The phone has just a touch more than 32Gb of storage used between internal and external combined. The Flyer, with 32Gb internal AND a 32Gb SD card, is doing fine.

I really want a HTC One X. It's a straight up choice between that and a Samsung Galaxy S3. The HTC's build quality is better (mmmm, polycarbonate!) and it has HTC Sense - which I am used to and quite like.
But I know that the moment I move to the HTC One X, I'll have to trim a few MP3s out just to do the migration. Now, perhaps that's no bad thing. It's probably overdue in fact.
But if I buy the Samsung S3, I just throw my SD card in the back and start re-installing apps. It feels cheap and plasticky? Sure, buy a silicon skin from ebay or Amazon. Problem solved.

HTC have released a 64Gb version of the HTC One X, but it's too little too late. As a still newly released flagship version, it'll be much more expensive than the S3 by December/January when my upgrade rolls around.

So currently, I'm veering towards the Samsung. If the HTC One X had an SD card slot, the S3 would get about a second's consideration, then I'd buy the HTC anyway. Instead, I'm buying apps like HD Widgets (in the recent Play store sale) and starting to migrate my widgets from Sense ones to those where applicable.

Sorry, HTC. You've made a phone that's brilliant, but you forgot a very simple feature...

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

MoreDruid (584251) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606561)

Don't get the HTC One X. I have had a terrible experience with this unit, I might be unlucky but an XDA developers thread of 11 pages seems to confirm that I'm not the only one: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1594281 [xda-developers.com]

I have had the same GPS issue (as did 2 other units from family members, but they hadn't used GPS yet) as mentioned on the forum, but I've heard (from the repair pickup guy) that some units also have lots of issues with Wifi. My phone has now been picked up 3 times, once they stated nothing was wrong but that it would be fixed in a software update (your non-existent issue will be fixed in our future software update, uhuh), which it didn't. 2nd pickup (after a 3 week long escalation to their 2nd/3rd line) they changed out the mainboard but that had the same issue. 3rd pickup, unit returned with yet another mainboard swapped and the issue seems to be resolved, however the USB connector on the mainboard doesn't align properly with the body opening so I need to wiggle and force to get the phone connected to the charger/PC. I can't properly seat it on my Brodit car holder for this model because of the misalignment, and previously I had no issues.

With regards to the SIII: I like the hardware and SD card upgrade possibility, they have a decent in-ear headphone included as well (HTC has the same cheap set as they did with the HTC Desire), I just don't like the look & feel of the Samsung body. Putting a sleeve/skin on it is not an option if you want to use a proper car holder since they expect the bare phone, no extra's on it.
There are a few other things I don't like about the HTC but those can be solved in software/apps. They have no automatic rotation for the home screen and their car app only has Google Maps and HTC Locations as navigation software choices. If you have purchased a different Satnav (or you use Waze) you won't be able to choose it.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (2)

gweilo8888 (921799) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606585)

Also, don't form your buying decisions based on a few complainers. Those who have problems complain. Those who don't have problems tend to say nothing. That leads to problems seeming far bigger than they really are. There are plenty of us--me included--who bought pretty much on launch day and have no WiFi problems. HTC is great with firmware updates, supports the development community (albeit you have no warranty once you unlock, but they're upfront about that), and frankly the HTC One X (well, now the One X+) is the best phone on the market. Everybody who sees mine raves about the screen, and for a high-powered smartphone the battery life is great too.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (3, Informative)

MoreDruid (584251) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607053)

Don't get me wrong, I fell in love with the specs and screen as well. I still like the model, I just happened to have gotten a lousy unit and HTC has been very reluctant to help me out for about 3 months now which is dissappointing if you've just shelled out 579 Euros (almost $ 750) for a smartphone. When I went shopping for it it was a toss-up between the SIII and the One X and brand loyalty (and the fact that I think that the blue plasticy shell of the SIII is hideous) made me choose the HTC. I've owned the Touch, Desire and bought the Wildfire for my kid and they were all good phones, where everything just worked. There are more people than just the ones on the XDA board, like I said, 2 family members have the same issue as I have but didn't notice it because they don't use the navigation on the phone.

The guys that do the pickup do all the pickups for HTC in the Netherlands and at the 3rd visit (I got the same driver each time) he told me they were picking up lots of the HTC Ones, a lot of Apple iPhones but very few Samsungs, and those were mostly by user defect (cracked screen, etc).

All that leads me to not recommending it. However: if the unit you get doesn't have issues it's a very good phone, I like the build quality and feel of it, very good phone quality, the CPU is fast and doesn't drain the battery too fast, the screen is very nice and bright, the OS is responsive, basically everything you'd ask from a top model, and something I've come to expect by using my previous HTC phones.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606159)

You can't store movies and music directly on an iPhone? What is this ten gigs of media I have here then?

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606469)

You, can but with the limited amount of space, unless you have a very small collection, you will be constantly swapping stuff in and out. I have a friend who does that, and isn't bothered by it, but I'd be annoyed as hell.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41607345)

well I only load stuff I know I'm actually going to watch and delete it once I'm done. I don't need a copy of every video I own on my phone.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607551)

That's assuming you'll watch it once.

No phone or tablet I've seen can hold all of my music without expansion... And I listen to songs more than once.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

complete loony (663508) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606173)

Joe average user doesn't care about increasing their phones storage after purchase, or hot-swapping between a collection of micro sdcards that are far too easy to misplace. Provided it has a reasonable sized internal storage and I can hook it up to a PC to easily swap things around, I don't care either.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606189)

> it's easier for them if you're storing it on their hard drives

Not really.

> Smart phones are fun toys, but they are useless unless I can store my music and videos directly on them.

SD-cardless phones and tablets are useless *to you*, but that's okay to HTC and Samsung and Apple, because you and your opinion and your disposable are barely background noise.

Not just him. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606343)

And you cannot say otherwise. After all, it is a credible statement to connect the lack of an SD card to the drop in sales and the cause of that to so many users thinking a smartphone (as opposed to feature phone or just plain old phone) without an SD card IS useless to them.

If no SD card slot is not a problem, what do you base that on? The lack of sales being less than forecast for other reasons?

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (5, Interesting)

MrDoh! (71235) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606193)

Why I loved the HTC Nexus One.
No stupid skins, just pure Android.
Fast
Zero bloatware
Updates
SD-Card
Easily unlockable bootloader
Awesome build quality
Replaceable batteries
Beautiful screen.
.
.
Reasons I dislike the new HTC phones
Terrible skins
slow (odd stutters, I think related to the skins/bloatware)
Slow updates (and CM appearing to have issues as the drivers/specs hard to get hold of)
Lack of SD-Cards (I get it, MS want's their cut, but what's the price? If it's 5bucks a device, I'm happy to pay that extra)
Locked bootloaders
Build quality falling. Pic up a HTC One S/X and on first glance it looks good, but tolerances appear to have slipped, just... not as good milling for the metal.
Non-replaceable batteries.
.
.
Screens are still good though, the contrast is great. The Camera was great quality too (though not THE most important item on a phone). .
.
HTC, look, you're stepping away from why your phones were so beloved at the time. You're letting 'idiot marketing/execs' get in the way of /really/ listening to your customers who know what they like and WANT to use your phones, but are being put off by terrible decisions. Seriously, everything we liked about your phones in the first place, you've got rid of. Who's brainwave WAS this to get rid of everything that made your phones so good?

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (2)

alex67500 (1609333) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606471)

Sure, the HTC CEO reads slashdot every day.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41607099)

Well, judging on how badly htc is performing, we can see that she doesn't.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606877)

If they simply want to blame the drop in sales on Samsung, panic, and try to emulate winners ie. lookie dey no a use a sd memory musta be a winning trend! Let em fail. Go and steer your ship into oblivion, or start kicking out worse than useless MBAs.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41607073)

Thank you for your brilliant observations. I hope that someone notices That

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606213)

FYI, i got the OneX and it is a great phone. I do not miss the SD card slot one bit as my previous phone had almost no internal storage and a 16Gb card, i now have 32Gb on the phone and no card. Big deal.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606253)

I bought the htc one x despite this. The US version has 16GB, while the international version (the one I purchased) has by default 32GB.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

gblackwo (1087063) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606287)

I just got an HTC ONE V through Virgin Mobile and dropped a 64gb MicroSD card in it. This may not be a "new" phone, but it is Android 4.0, and 3G. It is new enough for me. Same size as the Incredible I just upgraded from but 2/3rds as thick.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606329)

I absolutely will not buy a phone or tablet that does not have an SD slot. ...

Smart phones are fun toys, but they are useless unless I can store my music and videos directly on them.

There's so much stupid there, I don't know where to begin. Ok, let's start with this: you won't buy a phone unless it has an SD slot and you consider a phone that you can't directly store music and videos on to be useless? I don't see the necessity for an SD slot to store music and videos on a phone...

Second, and more importantly, I don't know of ANY smartphone that prevents you from storing music and videos directly on the phone. I believe _EVERY SINGLE SMARTPHONE ON THE MARKET_ is capable of that.

Seriously, how this gets modded insightful is a mystery to me. Oh, wait - it's someone raging against the loss of the SD slot and this is Slashdot...

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

Inda (580031) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606843)

1.5gb OS
3.5gb Apps and games
8gb Photos and video (plus those bitchy thumbnails that always need clearing)

Oh shit, there's no more space for music.

Thank fuck I have a 32gb SD card for full length movies and music. And even that's not nearly enough in 2012.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

EmagGeek (574360) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607019)

I think you need to pay attention to the OP's _message_ rather than simply parse the words individually.

Clearly the OP meant "directly on the phone" to be "on the phone or on an SD card in the phone, or otherwise NOT in the cloud."

It is obvious to me that the OP just wants to have their stuff accessible locally rather than remotely, and I can understand that. I have a 64GB card in my phone and it still isn't enough to store everything I want local access to.

But, there are other solutions. Seagate makes a portable 500GB HDD with a built-in wireless interface and CIFS server. It's not the most elegant solution, but I can stream movies and listen to music that way.

Non-root users can do it using an app like ES File Explorer, or rooted users can mount the CIFS share directly.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606389)

SD slot, and keyboard (although a case with a built in keyboard would be an acceptable substitute.

But yeah, HTC has been making bad design decisions lately. They make great quality phones, but I have to wonder what they are thinking with their design decisions.

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (1)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606489)

I'd say that using my phone for music and video is what would turn it into a toy. I use it to make phone calls, text, and look things up (especially using maps) when I'm on the go. What carriers don't like is how little data I use, since that is rapidly becoming their new cash cow (even replacing texting).

Or they want you to purchase more memory model? (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607187)

Maybe they don't want you to have an SD card so you will spend $50 more for the 16GB model, instead of the 8GB model?

Re:It's because they removed the SD Card (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41607313)

hey phone manufacturers, listen up, i too agree with this fellow.

If i cant put in my own SD card, and if i cant replace my own battery, you will not see my money.

They should change their name (1)

Spy Handler (822350) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606039)

High Tech Computer..... really? That's so 1990. Reminds me of mom-and-pop computer stores that assembled and sold generic 386 clones back in the day.

Re:They should change their name (1)

MBGMorden (803437) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606595)

Indeed. I remember one down the street back then called "Advanced Data Computers". I always wondered what was so advanced about their data compared to everyone else.

In particular I loved the owner's response to if you asked if he had any particular item. It was invariably "No - but I can order it!". No thanks buddy. Even back then I could at least order it out of Computer Shopper myself if I felt like waiting.

Re:They should change their name (1)

compro01 (777531) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607103)

They did awhile ago. It's legally just "HTC Corporation", where the HTC doesn't stand for anything, same as BP.

Pressure from competition? yeah right (5, Insightful)

mybeat (1516477) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606045)

Maybe HTC should stop making stupid design decisions like a non removable battery and no microSD expansion slot? Owned original HTC Desire and still love it, despite browsing Slashdot on it was soo slow.

Re:Pressure from competition? yeah right (0)

Bogtha (906264) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606385)

Maybe HTC should stop making stupid design decisions like a non removable battery and no microSD expansion slot?

Some of the most profitable smartphones in the industry have a non-removable battery and no microSD expansion slot. I don't think many people care about these features outside of Slashdot.

Owned original HTC Desire and still love it, despite browsing Slashdot on it was soo slow.

I had a Desire Z and it was incredibly buggy and slow. Things like taking more than 30 seconds to send a text message, bugs where all of your text messages got deleted, and taking more than 10 seconds for pulling down the notification panel to have any visible effect. These are things that the average person cares about.

Re:Pressure from competition? yeah right (1)

csumpi (2258986) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606675)

Some of the most profitable smartphones in the industry have a removable battery and microSD expansion slot. I think many people care about these features outside of Slashdot.

See? works both ways.

Re:Pressure from competition? yeah right (1)

Miamicanes (730264) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606677)

> Some of the most profitable smartphones in the industry have a non-removable battery and no microSD expansion slot.

Name one that isn't made by Apple.

Every Android phone I've ever seen that shipped with the fatal combo of "nonremovable battery and without microSD" basically sucked. The batteries were too small, and the lack of microSD just kicked it over the edge.

Here's a good reason to demand microSD: you CAN get your phone into a state where it's sufficiently damaged to make mounting it as a USB drive impossible, or into a bootloop where only a full factory wipe (including internal /sdcard) will get it out. When that happens, your data is gone. In contrast, it's amazingly hard to truly destroy a microSD card. Watch a disaster show on the Discovery Channel sometime, and observe how many firsthand accounts were filmed by dead videographers whose destroyed camcorder had a readable microSD card inside. The point is, even driving over your phone with a car is unlikely to render the data on the microSD card gone forever, unlike its regular internal flash (whose operation mostly depends upon having a phone that at least "kind of" still works).

My own phone? A Galaxy S3 with Seidio extended battery & active case. Total thickness is comparable to an Otterbox Defender, with approximately the protection of an Otterbox Metro. And I can say, it's damn nice to be able to use my phone all day without ever touching a battery charger or making the slightest attempt to conserve power. Give a phone a nice, big battery, replace the kernel governor with one that supports a variant of "Interactive" instead of "Ondemand", and your phone's lag problems just go away & it still runs all day on a single charge. And if that battery isn't quite enough (say, post-Hurricane), I have 3 more just like the one that came with the phone purchased from China for about 10 bucks as a cheap insurance policy. At that price, it's actually cheaper to use them once and throw them away than it would be to use a kludgy usb charger powered by alkaline batteries.

Re:Pressure from competition? yeah right (1)

hankwang (413283) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606789)

Owned original HTC Desire and still love it, despite browsing Slashdot on it was soo slow.

Blatant plug: AvantSlash - mobile version of slashdot.org [avantslash.org] . Works fine even with my wife's HTC Tattoo (Android 1.6, 256 MB RAM) and my old Nokia N82. It's implemented as a kind of proxy, so you'll need to install it on an internet-facing web server (don't all hard-core Slashdot readers have one?)

Re:Pressure from competition? yeah right (1)

mybeat (1516477) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606895)

Thanks for a great suggestion. I'll definitely check this out. And it's written in Perl, which is awesome.

Haha (3, Insightful)

binarylarry (1338699) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606051)

Don't worry HTC, those Microsoft phones will get you back in action!

I've bought HTC phones exclusively since Android came out but I've grown tired of all the issues that popup. Plus HTC tends to be douchey about releasing source code and drivers, so my next phone will be from elsewhere.

Re:Haha (3, Interesting)

erroneus (253617) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606133)

That's kind of the lesson here isn't it?

The Android phone market isn't quite what I would call "settled" or mature just yet. People are still exploring them and building their expectations of them. This means that when people see something in another phone that they can't or don't have in theirs, the bridge between consumer and manufacturer/seller goes up like flash paper.

HTC decided that the carriers are their customers instead of the people who actually hold the phones in their hands. So yeah, they were pretty douchey if you like to put it that way. That and HTC isn't well known for putting out "premium" handsets. (If they actually make premium handsets, I don't know.) So what you get are pretty low expectations and a lot of frustrations.

It doesn't hurt that the "anyone who does phone business with Microsoft is doomed" tradition is alive and well. That problem has been on-going for a very long time and I still haven't seen a success story yet.

Re:Haha (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606467)

I've bought HTC phones exclusively since Android came out but I've grown tired of all the issues that popup.
 
Dude, that's Android, not your phone. Get use to having third rate crap as long as you keep buying Android. Maybe someday you'll have a big boy phone.

Re:Haha (1)

Idbar (1034346) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606519)

Interestingly, my first HTC was a WinMobile 5. The so called Wizard. Great hardware at the time.

Re:Haha (2)

NewWorldDan (899800) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607239)

Ok, so my list of phones to not buy currently stands at (these have all done me or someone I know wrong):

Apple
Nokia
Motorolla
Samsung
HTC
Blackberry
LG

Um, is there anything left?

In any event, I'm actually looking at a Win8 phone for my next phone. My last 2 Android phones have been full of buggy crap that wasn't maintained by the handset maker. I only use 6 things with my phone: voice, sms, email, browser, maps, and music. Any phone will do that now. What I hear about the Windows phones is that they're not big on the apps, they're not sexy, but they work. That's what I want. I'm not an Apple person and BlackBerry has no future, so Win8 phone it is.

Re:Haha (1, Troll)

binarylarry (1338699) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607311)

Android phones were buggy crap, so you're buying a microsoft, phone?

Really? I'm laughing pretty hard right now, so it's difficult to continue.

HTC barked up the wrong tree (1)

GeekWithAKnife (2717871) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606081)


While they are still making profit, unlike nokia, I believe they have gambled on the wrong feature. I love my HTC One X, but seriously, who makes use of a quad 1.5Ghz CPU in a phone? True, this is not a server chip, but I'm pretty sure a dual core would have been more than sufficient.

In my opinion it would make more sense to have sleeker user interface features, more battery life and or better camera etc.

So between the software lock-in "features" of IOS & the superior implementation and marketing of Samsung the third player loses because they are competing for the same segment.
Who knows, maybe windows will save it. At least it will be different and not easily comparable. A different quality product would not necessarily compete for the same customers.
Give us usability, cross device sync, larger than 2GB file support, playback of popular .mkv formats, give us the option to remove "features" we do not want...the list goes on, there is real room to innovate here, if there wasn't why are there so many mods for android out there?

Locked Bootloader Issues (1)

tylikcat (1578365) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606083)

I'm still using my HTC Vision, and as a piece of hardware, I do adore it (and hope to pass it on to my sister when I upgrade*). But their policies towards unlocking bootloaders have varied between inconsistent to evil. I love their hardware, but I'm pretty much done.

Sadly, I don't think those of us who root our phones and install community OSes constitute much of a demographic for marketing purposes.

* Likely soon. Likely to the Galaxy S Relay - I'm old fashioned enough to strongly prefer a hard keyboard, and by preference a five row keyboard.

Re:Locked Bootloader Issues (1)

Extremus (1043274) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606109)

Sadly, I don't think those of us who root our phones and install community OSes constitute much of a demographic for marketing purposes.

True, but we also form opinion about phones. Which phone will you recommend to others?

A damn shame (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606095)

HTC is one of the best phone hardware companies. The don't lock down their phones too much and it always seems their older models get support from the community on xda.

Where is HTC One for Verizon? (1)

Mr. Droopy Drawers (215436) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606151)

HTC,
I went to the Verizon store to pick up a replacement recently. No HTC One? Really? Why?

How I used to love 'ya. I'm still using my HTC Incredible. It's been, well, pretty incredible. Well, until the latest updates came out. I've had more crashes since the last update than I had over the last 3 years.

My next phone won't be an IPhone. It won't be a Windows phone either. What does that leave me with? Motorola? They break promises with 1yr old phones; Should I look at the new RAZR models? Will they get JellyBean? Who knows?

That leaves Samsung.... Is it really so hard to create an Android phone that we can get excited about?

Re:Where is HTC One for Verizon? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606283)

How did you guys get into a situation where your carrier gets to decide which phones you can and cannot use? That's, well, very non-free-market.

Back ontopic, still very happy with my old Desire, although I must admit I did switch to cyanogenmod as soon as possible (HTC's own updates took too long).

But if I were to buy a new one now, I'd check HTC's models first. I am not looking so I'm not up-to-date exactly, but it seems to me that *all* manufacturers are moving away from the features I like.

Re:Where is HTC One for Verizon? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41607595)

Do a factory reset on the Incredible - you'll still have your current upgraded OS build, but the crashes should stop. Mine went nuts after the last update too and would crash every night 4-5 times in a row (like a reboot loop), until I got sick of said behaviour and nuked it.

Simple (4, Interesting)

Propaganda13 (312548) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606203)

Change the name of the poorly named HTC EVO 4G LTE to the EVO 5 then advertise it. It stacks up well against the competition, but either people think it's a 2 year old phone or they've never heard of it.

Sad (1)

Daetrin (576516) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606273)

I'm still using my HTC Nexus One, at least for a few more months until the new Nexus phones come out. It's getting a bit long in the tooth, but i'm really going to miss the combination trackball/notification light. The trackball part in particular is an awesome feature that unfortunately doesn't seem to have caught on with anyone, including HTC itself. I was worried about how well fine adjustments of the text cursor was going to work without the trackball, and after getting a Nexus 7 my fears were confirmed. Especially for the far too common case of text boxes that won't let you scroll if the text goes past the edge of the box. And it works really well for menu selection in games/apps that are smart enough to handle the alternate method.

Re:Sad (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606513)

The HTC keyboard (my favorite soft keyboard) has arrows about 75% of the time.

it should be configurable for always, especially as it is pretty arbitrary (not here for example, but often in far smaller inputs)

Re:Sad (3, Informative)

compro01 (777531) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607163)

Might try a keyboard with arrow keys. Hacker's keyboard [google.com] is a nice one.

Though the keys get kinda small if you use the full 5-row layout in portrait mode, at least on my Incredible S.

Re:Sad (1)

Daetrin (576516) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607269)

That looks more convenient than my current keyboard, which has the arrow keys on the fourth page of alternate characters. However that keyboard doesn't have Swype/SlideIt type input does it?

And even if you can get to the arrow keys just by opening up the keyboard instead of opening up the keyboard and switching through four different screens, that's still rather unwieldy for navigating through menus where you don't normally have the keyboard open in the first place.

CarrierIQ (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606399)

I know why I rejected all HTC products:

http://gizmodo.com/5864318/htc-blames-the-carriers-for-the-carrier-iq-spying-mess-on-htc-phones

Any product carrying known spyware like Carrier IQ, I will not buy your products, ANY OF THEM. Just rot in hell HTC.

Done with HTC (2)

carlhirsch (87880) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606413)

For me, HTC's strength was their continued devotion to physical QWERTY siding keyboards. I'm simply not going to be SSH-ing into a server with a touchscreen.

Two things have sunk this affection. First, HTC (like the rest of the industry) is moving away from physical keyboards. Second, the last QWERTY I got from them crapped out in a really disappointing way. I had a MyTouch 4G slide, also known as the HTC Doubleshot. Really nice phone, decent modding community. The thing is, it's got a design flaw. The flex cable between the front and back halves of the phone failed, causing a whole basket of things to go wrong. When I disassembled the unit, I could clearly see how the edge of a metal bracket was rubbing against the cable every time the phone was opened or closed.

If you've got a HTC Doubleshot, it's just a matter of time before it fails. I'm sure the design engineers recognized this problem but they likely had their fix overruled to save production cost or hustle the unit out the door. Worse, it could have been planned obsolescence, given that the problem manifested a month after the warranty expired.

Meanwhile, my HTC Dream is chugging along with new old-stock units available for $90, and HTC has walked away from the one thing they did better than the rest of the industry .

Re:Done with HTC (3, Insightful)

medcalf (68293) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606615)

Actually, I SSH into servers from my iPhone frequently. If the virtual keyboard works for you in other contexts, it works just fine for SSH. (iSSH, the program I use, has a couple of handy controls floating on the screen that give access to things like an ESC key and arrow keys that the virtual keyboard itself lacks. I tried out a different terminal program for a while that used gestures to do the same thing, but it just wasn't as easy to use of a solution.) So bottom line is, virtual keyboards don't have any intrinsic issues with SSH use for common system administration tasks.

its not marketing, HTC is crap (-1, Troll)

alen (225700) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606497)

i replaced an iphone 3GS with a HTC Inspire 4G over a year and a half ago

first i had to put the battery in and it took 20 minutes to open the cover. i thought it was going to break. missed the iphone right there and its non-removable battery
then set up my work email. no push to subfolders? ok, android email is crap i'll just leave my gmail on there
then google Nav only worked when the phone was near the windshield. why did my 3GS seem to get positioning lying in the seat next to me?

and a long list of things that don't work on android like they do on iOS

anyway AT&T came through and i was eligible for an upgrade 6 months later and i got the iphone 4S the day it came out. once in a while i get the i want something different bug and go the at&t store just to see how bad the android phones are

Re:its not marketing, HTC is crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41607341)

first i had to put the battery in and it took 20 minutes to open the cover.

Well, you know, you have said everything... I will tease some appletards friends of mine with this post :D

Yep! Good riddance! (3, Insightful)

Evtim (1022085) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606587)

My first and so far last smartphone is HTC Desire. What a piece of @#$%#!

First, the menu buttons on the bottom stop working after 1 year regular use (3 out of 3 - the phones of myself, my wife and a friend)

Second, and much more frustrating - no system updates. Zero, nada,zip! I am still running Android 2.2 ?!? Their proprietary overlay of Android is utter crap, I have no control over the device (unless I root, but damn it why bother - I should get unlocked phone from the start), I cannot remove shit like Facebook applications, stock market update (WTF?!?) and so on....sometimes the phone just stops responding because it is busy running....itself

Now, I'll admit the above is not necessarily a flaw of HTC only, but come on...Overall I am utterly disappointed by the whole smartphone thingy. I expected a small PC in my pocket and all I got is locked, slow, power hungry piece of shit, that spends 80% of its power running itself... and no, I am not going Apple because of this (different set of crap IMO) but I just might "devolve" to dumb phone again.

New slogan - "dumb phones are for smart people, smart phones are for dummies". Please, spread it around - we just might convince enough people to stop falling for the hype and get those companies in line...oh, forgot boycott does not work in our economic paradigm. Well, forget it...

Re:Yep! Good riddance! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606759)

+1 to this, every HTC phone I've owned (all 2 of them) were horrendous, unresponsive pieces of crap. Absurdly low battery life (you did remember to charge it over lunch, right?), poor features (buttons would stop responding, no 3rd party cases/clips/etc...), and poorly written software (unresponsive, apps would crash/freeze, and they'd never truly close, eating more battery life).

In short, 79% decrease in sales? It couldn't be because the produce inferior products and customers are voting with their wallets! No! It must be the money they spend on advertizing!

Re:Yep! Good riddance! (1)

dunkelfalke (91624) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607335)

Starting with "every HTC phone" and ending with "all two of them". Kids these days...

Had maybe ten of their phones starting with the Wallaby in 2003 and running WM2002, and ending with the Leo, currently running CM9 Android, three years old now. HTC always had state of the art hardware in their phones.

Re:Yep! Good riddance! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606779)

I expected a small PC in my pocket and all I got is locked, slow, power hungry piece of shit, that spends 80% of its power running itself...

It sounds like you got exactly what you expected.

Re:Yep! Good riddance! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41606871)

I have a HTC Desire for more then 2 years now, and my opinion is totally different from yours. This phone is a blast!!!
Btw you have some kind of reason when u say that they (HTC) didnt developed nothing more then A2.2 for this.

But i have some news for you, am running ICS 4.0.4 (yes u need to root and all that stuff) that runs smoothly, faster then that stupid and overly weighted ROM that HTC put inside this phone.

In terms of hardware i think HTC still is one of the best brands to invest the little money we have today. But the world isnt perfect and the software is not the better/fastter...

My bad about this poor english -.-

HTC should make some more models (3, Insightful)

alen (225700) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606739)

Apple has the iphone
Samsung has the Galaxy S3
verizon has droids

people know these names. HTC used to release a new phone a month on different carriers under different names with slightly different specs. diluted the brand because people didn't know what they were buying

Re:HTC should make some more models (4, Insightful)

Antimatter3009 (886953) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606937)

I think you've got it more right than anyone else here. Features like an SD card and removable battery are nice, but very few people care. Just look at how well the iPhone does with neither. What really makes a difference is how you sell your product. Samsung and Apple sell the exact* same phone across all carriers. Then they advertise that single phone straight to consumers, knowing that the carrier they're on doesn't matter. HTC sells the One X exclusively on AT&T. They sell Evos on Sprint. They sell Droid Incredibles on Verizon. They can't advertise a single product line to consumers, leaving them pretty much reliant on the carriers to push their phones for them. What do they expect?

When people think Apple, they think iPhone. Samsung, they think Galaxy S. HTC, they think... well, probably nothing. None of their product lines have a strong brand identity, so people won't ask for them. And when people won't ask for you product, how do you plan to sell any when you're competing against the products people will ask for?

* I realize some internal components are different, but as far as the average consumer is concerned, they're exactly the same.

Re:HTC should make some more models (1)

Picass0 (147474) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606967)

I think a few people have heard of the Evo, but point taken. HTC is like Nokia. For every good phone they make it seems like they put out a dozen pieces of crap.

Great phones, poor marketing (3, Funny)

flar2 (938689) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606815)

The problem is HTC hasn't got the word out. Everyone's talking about the Samsung Galaxy S3 and new iphone, but the One X is, IMHO, the best phone on the market right now. The screen alone makes it better than the SGS3 and iphone 5. Also has a very nice camera and never lags. Everyone who sees my phone is like "wow, what phone is that?"

I've also owned the One V, which is a low end phone, but surprisingly feature packed. For the record, I actually like the HTC Sense interface better than vanilla android.

what bullshit (2)

sribe (304414) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606923)

Apple and Samsung spend four to six times more on marketing to ensure the iPhone 5 and the Galaxy SIII dominate the market, while strongly subsidizing their older models...

Oh yeah, if only our competitors did not advertise nor compete on price/features, then we'd be doing great!

This is unfortunate (5, Interesting)

AbRASiON (589899) | about a year and a half ago | (#41606959)

HTC make the second best Android phones behind Samsung. If Samsung turn evil or make stupid decisions I don't agree with, I like having HTC there as a backup. I owned a HTC HD2 (no it's not a native Android phone) but the build quality, for the time was fairly good and HTC Sense really isn't that bad. (Then again, I don't hate touchwiz either)

I hear Sony's Android phones aren't shabby but I have a hard time believing a juggernaught like Sony would release timely products or updates. Also LG and Motorola both "not bad" but HTC is definitely, in my eyes #2 - it'd be a shame to see them completely slayed.

I don't follow them too closely but I believe they were continuing to focus on Microsoft based phones which seems, completely foolhardy to me - the sales numbers on those things would be quite miniscule, fingers crossed they remain competitive. (The HTC One X does have a glorious screen, but the lack of removable battery or SD card slot is a no no, the actual design however - for the most part is quite nice looking like the S3)

HTC EVO 3D/V 4G (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41607265)

HTC EVO 3D/V 4G are the single most feature packed phones on the market for the money. 3d camera/display, dual core 1.2ghz process, 9dof IMU, FM radio, and unlocked bootloader.

I imagine some of the new Galaxy S phones have improved or matched some of these features, but no other phone includes all of the above. Nearly 2 years old and still the best phone on the market.

If my V 4G breaks I will switch carriers to Boost Mobile or Cricket just to be able to use my bad ESN EVO 3D's for another several years.

I would never buy an HTC phone again b/c of Sense (2)

jt_04 (2687097) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607307)

My wife had an HTC phone and I found the Sense UI to be terrible. It slowed down her phone because it was so resource hungry and most of the changes in Sense didn't really add any value, they were just flashy changes meant to impress people. I flashed cyanogenmod and she loved it. I love HTC's hardware, but would never buy one of the phones again unless they improve their awful UI.

Re:I would never buy an HTC phone again b/c of Sen (1)

icebrain (944107) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607509)

I never understood why manufacturers feel the need to include crappy non-removable bloatware games and their own home-grown half-assed crappy UIs.

Doesn't matter much to me though; I'll just root and install what I want.

Differentiation (1)

Fencepost (107992) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607401)

I'd say that they don't currently have any real differentiation from the other products out there, at least not in a good way.

I'm using an HTC phone right now and I'm pretty pleased with it, but I bought it when it had already been discontinued after only being available for less than a year. Why did I buy the HTC Amaze 4G instead of the other options (HTC One S, Galaxy S II, etc.)? It has a camera button, and after my previous Samsung phone I really wanted that. It also has a replaceable battery and MicroSD card.

Same old problem... (2)

MaWeiTao (908546) | about a year and a half ago | (#41607537)

It's the same old problem with Taiwanese companies. They're capable of producing a great product but don't quite appreciate the value of consistency and marketing. They don't really define a vision and are too reactive; someone else comes up with a defining product and they rush to match it. Granted, HTC has done better than most. Usually Taiwanese companies flirt with the bottom, trying to offer a feature rich product on the cheap. You get good value but you never get the sense of a committed brand focused on quality. And the Chinese have taken over this space.

Historically, however, Taiwanese companies have had to fend for themselves. South Korean chaebols have enjoyed the benefit of government backing, enabling them to focus quality and design. It created a scenario in which they were able to build global, established brands in a relatively brief amount of time. Who would have taken a Korean brand seriously 15 to 20 years ago? It took Japanese companies closer to 30 years to establish themselves and they didn't have the competition Taiwanese are facing. HTC hasn't yet been able to define themselves as a prestige brand like Apple, or even Samsung to a lesser extent.

I do think HTC has one of the best custom Android skins on the market, superior to anything the Koreans offer.

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