Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Music Industry Raids Taiwan Campuses For MP3s

timothy posted more than 13 years ago | from the international-cooperative-spirit dept.

The Courts 200

martijnd writes: "The Taipei Times newspaper reports that in Taiwan at least the music industry and police agree that possesion of illegal music must be as dangerous as having other substances hidden in your dorm room. In an attempt to stamp out MP3 file trading on campus the music industry is going after individual university students and has the police bring them in." The article says that some students are teaching others "techniques of erasing files without a trace, keeping hidden backup files, and even smashing one's own hard drive in the event of a police search in school dorms." Those sound like pretty good things to encourage anyhow to me.

cancel ×

200 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

W00H00 (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#292004)

I get dibbs on smashing Taco's HDD.

Engrish. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#292005)

"Those sound like pretty good things to encourage anyhow to me. " Yes, and All Your -- no...I can't do it. I WON'T do it! Mod me to the cellar.

Re:IFPI completely missing "clue" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#292006)

Thats coz they PAY$ to the cops to make sure they arent busted.

FREE MP3s eat into the police bribes profits, they want those bootleg/pirate factories to keep running.

Free mp3s are for once prooving to be hurting the pirate industry as much as the real industry.

Re:not so fast (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#292007)

The Tiananmen square massacre was in communist China. These students are in Taiwan. Despite what the communists in China claim, these are two completely separate nations and have been for over half a century.

Unless of course something changed on that since this morning.

Re:MPAA, RIAA, other countries (1)

Art Tatum (6890) | more than 13 years ago | (#292013)

I wonder how many people in other countries associate US companies with the US government? (Not entirely unreasonable, of course.)

People getting screwed (2)

Paladeen (8688) | more than 13 years ago | (#292015)

This shows the obviously distorted priorities that the police are getting due to lobbyists. What's next...police raids on domestic homes to seize that 10 Gig collection? Doesn't Babylon have anything better to do than this???

Re:not so fast (1)

HeghmoH (13204) | more than 13 years ago | (#292016)

Although Beijing would certainly like the situation to be otherwise, currently Taiwan is not a part of the People's Republic of China. Students living in Taiwan are not subject to their rules or decisions unless such rules and decisions involve the invasion of their country.

Re:What if they try this here? (1)

Threep2742 (15106) | more than 13 years ago | (#292017)

Er. Actually, I'm given to understand that the second amendment was adopted because the states were worried about a ubergovernment rolling over their freedoms with an army, so they wanted to keep state militias. I guess that's a similar idea, but with the caveat that it was intended to keep the national government from infringing on the rights of the state government. The individual person oppressed by the government didn't enter into the equation.

Though it is worth noting that that particular intended use failed. The national government did in fact roll over states' rights, and is in fact oppressing everyone uniformly now.

Re:There is a way (1)

Nick_Psyko (18708) | more than 13 years ago | (#292020)

This is the part i find most intreging, Why dod they start the raids now?

"The university authorities urged students to remain calm and focus on their studies.

Midterm exams will begin at Chengkung University next week.

i would like to see the exam results for this college and compare them to the older results, can you imagine the students not happy with the results then sueing the authoroties for causeing unnsacary mental anguish at an already stressfull time.

Why they do this... (5)

magic (19621) | more than 13 years ago | (#292024)

Asian countries (China/Taiwan in particular) are under intense pressure from the US to respect US copyrights and patents. This leads to swat-team level enforcement, usually targetted at large scale pirates.

They probably aren't doing this because they are very upset about MP3's, but because it is a demonstration that they are working to stamp out piracy.

-m

break glass in case of cops (1)

rhaig (24891) | more than 13 years ago | (#292025)

all they have to do is put a few hundred turns of enameled copper wire around the hard drive with the MP3's on it and rig it to a large battery and a big red button with a cover on it. Move the cover, hit the button, and the drive is clean. Much better than smashing the drive, you have a chance of being able to re-use the drive after.

Re:People getting screwed (1)

Xugumad (39311) | more than 13 years ago | (#292029)

One thing that really annoys me is the perception that it's not such a big deal when there are police raids on student accomodation. This isn't a problem I've had to deal with personally, but this is hardly the first Slashdot story that shows police being able to get into student accomodation more easily.

Why does being a student make it any different from if we were not? Raids on student accomodation should be reacted to exactly as raids on domestic homes would be.

secret service? (1)

Zorikin (49410) | more than 13 years ago | (#292031)

Quick, someone call steve jackson games!

Re:In for a penny, in for a pound (1)

redelm (54142) | more than 13 years ago | (#292032)

I'll bite: Are you arguing against all forms of "Intellectual Property" (ie, patents, trademarks and copyrights)?
If so, then how do you propose that creators of exceptionally expensive to develop and valuable IP (CocaCola TM, UNIPOL Process, drugs and Brittany Spears music?) be compensated for their efforts?
Or do you propose they not labor at all?


If not, it is easy to see your point: raids are just another enforcement tool.

Electromagnet (1)

Milican (58140) | more than 13 years ago | (#292033)

What they need is a big ol' electromagnet wired next to their hard drives.. then when the police come busting down the door.. *zap* no more data. Quick and easy to. No sledgehammer required.

JOhn

when the thugs come a knockin... (2)

mike_the_kid (58164) | more than 13 years ago | (#292034)

One of the best anectdotes I've heard for this situation:
Mafioso guy has very strong encryption of his files, with a key on a 5.25 floppy disk (this would work with a cd-r, too). Has an industrial strength waffle iron hot and ready at all times. If the heat is uppon him, put the key in the waffle iron. It would probably help to have a backup somewhere safe, if there is such a thing as a safe place.

Re:Same with WareZ (1)

pipeb0mb (60758) | more than 13 years ago | (#292035)

Wow! That is so...
Wait a second...you're pulling our collective legs!

You *almost* got me, then I though, hey...back in the days of 300-2400 baud modems, we were DAMNED lucky to have CDROMS, much less anything that could RECORD CDs.
So, I checked good old Google [google.com] , and lo and behold:
In 1990, part II of the so-called "orange book" published by Philips (who else), specified the characteristics and format of a recordable CD, or CD-R. CD-R is also sometimes called CD-WORM or CD-WO, where WO means "write once" and WORM "write once read many", both reflecting truisms about the medium. (There are other types of drives that are also WORM however.)
Initially, CD-R was prohibitively expensive--well over $1,000 for a drive, and $10 or more for each blank disk. As both of these numbers have dropped in half or less, CD-R has become quite popular for several applications, including archiving, software distribution, backup, custom audio, and a host of others. This section takes a look at CD-R in a fair bit of detail, although certainly not exhaustively; there are enough descriptions and aspects related to CD-R to fill a chapter as big as everything I have written about CD-ROMs in general, easily.
read more [pcguide.com]

So, it seems to make sense that you and your leet buddies didn't spend hundreds of dollars on this fancy new 'CD-R' stuff. Likely, you kept it all on 3.5" floppies like the rest of us did.
Have a good day.

It occurs to me that I need to start getting more rest. Sigh.

Good techniques? (1)

Snard (61584) | more than 13 years ago | (#292037)

The article says that some students are teaching others "techniques of erasing files without a trace, keeping hidden backup files, and
even smashing one's own hard drive in the event of a police search in school dorms." Those sound like pretty good things to encourage anyhow to me.
(emphasis mine)

I wonder if these raids are co-sponsored by Maxtor or Western Digital?

Re:Test the legality of this: (1)

Coolfish (69926) | more than 13 years ago | (#292041)

IE, if you find yourself in possession of something contraband, doing X would be the equivalent of burning it from a legal point of view.

Uh huh. And let's say you wipe those files off, zeroing them out, and it's impossible to tell if they were on there or not. Consider

1 - student has mp3s shared (bad idea) on network
2 - MPAA sees this and OF COURSE goes to a judge to get a search warrant (hah)
3 - the student feels guilty, and because he is security concious, secure-wipes the files
4 - MPAA/Police show up. Grab his computer (legal)
5 - they discover there are no mp3 files!

So, let's charge the user with what, obstruction of justice? Destruction of evidence? This would be silly, as it would set the precedent - if you download mp3s, you CANNOT delete them because they might, at some further point, be used against you.

In terms of "real life" items - if the user were to have say, an illegal substance, and he "got rid of" that substance before the police showed up - possession is 9/10ths of the law, isn't it. The police would have nothing. But lets say the student "hid" the stuff, say in the toilet. Then, the item is recoverable and the user is in possession, bamn, he can be charged.

Therefore, what judges would hold people to files that were deleted? I don't think any judge would, as long as those files could not easily be recovered.

IFPI completely missing "clue" (3)

kbs (70631) | more than 13 years ago | (#292043)

Many acknowledge that downloading illegal music from the Web is wrong but feel that students play only a tiny role in the larger problem of pirated music. The entrance of organized crime groups into the business of pirating music is perceived as far more serious.

They completely miss the real source of the problem. Bootlegs in Taiwan are plentiful and public, and there is no enforcement on the retail level. You can easily purchase a bootleg "collection" CD in any large department store. In this way, the whole "cheaper is better, regardless of source" concept is promulgated throughout society. If the IFPI is serious about decreasing profit margins, then they should attack the criminal organizations creating these that clearly violate Taiwanese copyright, not students that are engaging in what may actually be considered fair use under Taiwanese law. My impression is that the law there has not yet been clarified in that manner.

At least in the U.S., the CDs we buy in stores are bona fide copies. Now, I'm no fan of RIAA; I believe that they don't really serve a purpose other than to promote a monopolistic view for music, to keep the recording industry's profit margins nice and fat while the common artist is screwed.

But I sincerely hope that the RIAA doesn't start using the Gestapo tactics that the IFPI is using.
yours,

Re:Isn't the government about the people? (1)

JM_the_Great (70802) | more than 13 years ago | (#292044)

I mean isn't the government suppose to represent the people?

Absolutly _not_! The purpose of government is to protect people, reguardless of their views. If the purpose was to just "do the will of the people" it's pretty much justified in doing _anything_, including things like the Holocaust, just because "it's the will of the people". Anyway, don't complain to me when the majority of people think that free speech is bad on the Internet and that's taken away, after all, as you said, "it's the will of the people".

So, merely the fact that a lot of people use Napster doesn't make it right or wrong.

Grades, Social Life, Sleep... pick two.

Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (1)

Buggernut (74804) | more than 13 years ago | (#292045)

You don't strike the strongest, most visible targets in this case organizations like Philips Electronics for making stuff like mp3 cd players, you attack the small targets that everyone assumes are more or less outside the conflict.... the students in this case. Why do terrorists of all stripes do this? Simple: the more visibile targets usually have more than sufficient resources to retaliate in full force. Who here honestly thinks that if IBM were to make a lot of really good mp3 players and the like that the RIAA would dare take them on in court?

MP3 files, are not necessarily that of pirated music, and therefore are not all necessarily illegal, and therefore such a case would not hold up in court anyways. Like having or making a bong in itself is not enough to incriminate you, regardless of its most common use. It's the substance you put into it that they'll have to bust you for, and not the medium of consumption itself.

Re:IFPI completely missing "clue" (1)

Steveftoth (78419) | more than 13 years ago | (#292046)

This guy maybe anon, but I think he's got a clue as to WHY they are doing this.

For any taiwanese students reading this... (2)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 13 years ago | (#292048)

Check out Rubberhose. It is a cryptographic filesystem for linux and almost the BSD*'s that provides plausible deniability. I.e. even if they grab your computer and figure out that you are running rubberhose to hide stuff, you can throw them a bone by just decrypting your financial records, or your diary, or some other similarly benign piece of information and then no one can prove that there are any other items still encrypted on the disk.

www.rubberhose.org [rubberhose.org]

cost and resources (1)

cfl (82047) | more than 13 years ago | (#292049)

I know that this could be seen as simply
the guilty whinge of "why aren't they catching
real criminals" - but I wonder what this is
costing the Taiwan Police to carry out. Maybe
they don't have much other crime if the link
below is to be believed, but as the article
states "students play only a tiny role in the larger problem of pirated music". To spell
it out - the more serious crime is that of
pirating music for profit (i.e. forgeries) but
the police appear to be going for the easy and
obvious targets as a example.
http://travel.dk.com/wdr/TW/mTW_Crim.htm

MP3s are getting a bad name (4)

Alpha State (89105) | more than 13 years ago | (#292051)

I have already had strange looks from people simply for mentioning MP3s in conversation. And people trying to tell me that copying from my own CDs to MP3s is illegal.

Looks like it's not going to be long before parents are searching their kids' HDs fof MP3s (hey, great product opportunity!) and government ads are coming out with moronic slogans.

"Friends don't let friend's use MP3s!"

"Every download is doing you damage!"

Test the legality of this: (3)

JoeShmoe (90109) | more than 13 years ago | (#292052)

I remember reading an article (I think it was posted here on Slashdot) by a judge who argued there should be a way to legally define file deletion as a way of escaping legal consequences.

IE, if you find yourself in possession of something contraband, doing X would be the equivalent of burning it from a legal point of view.

Exploiting that concept...I wonder about the legality of the following things (pardon the Windows bias but hey, that's me)

1) Keeping your MP3/BombPlans/TeenPorn in the \RECYCLER folder on an NTFS volume. Note that under Windows NT, each user gets his or her own "Recycler Bin" (whereas they all share one common \RECYCLED folder on non-NTFS volumes). So, anything you put in the root of this folder is not deleted when you "Empty Recycle Bin". From a legal perspective, it seems possible you could say, "Hey, I dragged that all to the trash to delete it, don't blame me!" At the same time, all the files would be perfectly usable. Just have to clear your file histories to hide the fact that you are accessing the files there.

2) Same as #1 but actually putting them in the Recycle Bin...and disabling/teaching yourself not to ever empty it. Stronger case than #1 although you can't navigate folders and some programs give error messages when you try to use those files.

3) Have a hard disk that you do not use. "Delete" files...which in Windows land means the first letter of the file name is erased from the File Allocation Table. When you want to access the files, unerase them with a utility. As long as you don't write anything else to the drive while files are in "delete" state you can repeat this infinitely.

4) Write a program that automatically does #3 on the fly (Unerase D:\MP3, Open WinAmp, Play, Close WinAmp, Erase D:\MP3).

Seriously...would judges hold people accountable for files that were deleted? It seems worth considering...

- JoeShmoe

What to make of this? (2)

jeffsenter (95083) | more than 13 years ago | (#292056)

I am not sure what to make of this situation...
Arresting students for trading MP3's is very bad of course and is a terror tactic aimed at scaring other students and the general public. On the one hand Americans like myself shouldn't expect this kind of thing in the US, but on the other hand it isn't inconceivible either that somehow the RIAA would find a way to single out and arrest some students.

The other part of this that does not make any sense at all is why the Recording Industry is doing this in Taiwan. There are bootleg CD's sold in stores all the place right? That has to be costing the recording industry many times as much as lost revenue from MP3's. Is the case law and legal system in Taiwan such that making and selling pirate CD's is impossible to prosecute, but owning MP3's is easy?

Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (1)

browser_war_pow (100778) | more than 13 years ago | (#292065)

A barn wasn't the kinda small target I had in mind. I meant something like a terrorist blowing up a school in a suburban area, something that would say to most Americans that terrorism isn't just a problem for the big areas, you aren't safe no matter where you are.

Legal terrorism by corporations (5)

browser_war_pow (100778) | more than 13 years ago | (#292066)

Their actions are nothing more than a form of legal terrorism. The only difference in my opinion between these industries (intellectual property) and the terrorists that have in the past struck fear in countless nations' civilian populations is the weapon of choice. For Osama Bin Laden and the like it is a bomb/gun, for these guys it is a court brief. The end result is the same: extreme response against those that are the weakest, most defenseless targets to send a message to the strong/rest of society saying that "none of you are safe from us, all of you are at our mercy." That my friends is how terrorism works. You don't strike the strongest, most visible targets in this case organizations like Philips Electronics for making stuff like mp3 cd players, you attack the small targets that everyone assumes are more or less outside the conflict.... the students in this case. Why do terrorists of all stripes do this? Simple: the more visibile targets usually have more than sufficient resources to retaliate in full force. Who here honestly thinks that if IBM were to make a lot of really good mp3 players and the like that the RIAA would dare take them on in court? IBM's annual revenues are probably at least 2x the entire recording industry's combined! So you go after the middle and lower class guys that you know will be forced to play russian roulette in that they have two options: submit and be forgiven for now, or fight for their rights and run the risk of paying off legal bills for the rest of their life and/or destroying their family's economic future. Finally one thing to keep in mind is that other industries don't behave this way when they are "robbed" by the public. Most other industries don't deceive themselves and their member companies' stockholders into equating not achieving the maximum profits with being victimized by thieves. The fact of the matter remains that even when other industries are affected by theft, they don't respond by lashing out at a great many of their potential customers. They isolate the problem few and deal with them and leave the rest out of it. That is the difference between an intelligent, shrewd corporate approach and the insanely stupid and self-defeating approach most intellectual property giants have. To the IP companies I say keep it up bozos, the more people you all go after, the less sympathy you all will have and the more contempt the average joe blow will hold you in.

Why I use MP3s (1)

reality-bytes (119275) | more than 13 years ago | (#292069)

Well, I do a bit of DJ'ing - strictly vinyl.

When I hear about a new release, the obvious thing to do would be to go down to the record store and drop in on a listening post for a listen....Not So! The record stores in Britian seem to be having major problems with the theft of the needles and carts from their turntables - to such a point that they are removing listening posts!

So instead, I download a couple of versions of a tune on MP3 and more often than not, I'll go out and buy it (if I like it). I sure as hell wouldn't do this if I couldn't check it out on MP3 for fear of potentially wasting up to £6.50.

Do the RIAA actually enjoy repeatedly shooting itself in the foot?

Isn't the government about the people? (2)

mini me (132455) | more than 13 years ago | (#292073)

I don't know what percentage of the population use Napster, obviously it will be low due to the fact that not everyone has Internet access, but how about what percentage of the Internet using population uses Napster? If the percentage is considerably large, then shouldn't the laws about all this nonsense change? I mean isn't the government suppose to represent the people?

Might a referendum be the answer here? If the majority of the population believes that the law should be changed then so be it. It may screw up the economy, it may not, but it is the people's decision either way.

That old saying about "If you download MP3's, you are downloading communisim." is completely backwards. "If you don't download MP3's, you are promoting communisim." is more like it!

Re:What if they try this here? (1)

dcollins (135727) | more than 13 years ago | (#292074)

you anti-gun ownership people understand the argument that I and others make... The right to bear arms is intended to keep the government in line, and within the law.

The second amendment is the only part of the Constitution that I know with a crystal-clear description of intention included in its language. Namely, "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state..."

Hence your argument does not stand; the right to bear arms is explicitly to be "well regulated" by the government, not used against it. Thus spake the amendment itself.

Re:There is a way (1)

TandyMasterControl (136043) | more than 13 years ago | (#292075)

Not likely. That's the first place police the world over want to look.

Re:not so fast (1)

smackdotcom (136408) | more than 13 years ago | (#292076)

I think that the above poster misunderstands. I believe that the quote "Those sound like pretty good things to encourage to me" refers to the practice of controlling private data through the methods detailed, and thus preventing said private data from falling into government hands, rather than an endorsement of the practice of downloading illegal MP3s.

Taiwan is not a third world country, but they still have a way to go before personal information and the right to privacy are as well-respected as they are in the West (and of course, the West has a long way to go before reaching any sort of ideal situation in that regard as well).

The short version is this--what these students would likely appreciate is someone over here (or over there) assembling a nice downloadable toolkit to allow for the encryption of, hiding of and, if need be, the complete and utter destruction of private data. This would be a very handy tool for promoting free political expression as well (by shielding the authors from the state), a much more worthy goal than hiding a few MP3 files.

MPAA, RIAA, other countries (1)

HerrGlock (141750) | more than 13 years ago | (#292079)

People think the US is trying to be the world's police force? Not hardly, it's the darn corporations that are being silly with the enforcement.

DanH
Cav Pilot's Reference Page [cavalrypilot.com]

Down with the students! May they burn in hell! (2)

lamasquerade (172547) | more than 13 years ago | (#292093)

Another amazing pirating scam that in Taiwan is credit card fraud, which is more widespread in that country than any other. One can now get a fake credit card made there in under 3 minutes, and most people are afraid to use their legitimate credit cards for fear of the number being stolen by a planted clerk. BUT this organized crime *pales* in comparisson to these evil despicable, dastardly students, viciously PIRATING and infringing away in their dorms, we must stamp them out!

Also on widely available pirates, in Russia one can get any CD, and I mean any to the most obscure stuff, perfect copy with book and all on high quality paper, for around US$2 (less without the book). BUT those dastarly students, that's where the problems lie....

Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (2)

MrBogus (173033) | more than 13 years ago | (#292095)

In the average American viewpoint, the suburban highschool would be *worse* than the World Trade Center.

Everyone knows the World Trade Center is in the middle of a piss-soaked metropolis and is surrounded by strange foreigners 24x7. Something like that was bound to happen, and everyone who goes there knows it. The guys who committed the crime had no idea they were attacking an anti-icon.

On the other hand people believe bad things don't happen in "nice neighborhoods like ours", and when they do, it totally shakes their sense of security. That's why Columbine and OK City are in respective order, worse tragedies than normal inner city violence and the World Trade bombings.

Do you mean (1)

heytal (173090) | more than 13 years ago | (#292096)

That the mp3 server on our campus with 12087 mp3 files on it will have to be shut down ?

Re:not so fast (1)

sydb (176695) | more than 13 years ago | (#292097)

I'm not suggesting that they would repeat the act again. I should probably have made that more clear.

However, imagine YOU are a student in a country where 12 years ago the government killed it's own people for peaceful protest. Do you go out on the streets over some MP3s?

Re:not so fast (1)

sydb (176695) | more than 13 years ago | (#292098)

My point is contained in my 1st, 2nd and third posts. I'm not going to repeat myself.

Re:know your role (1)

sydb (176695) | more than 13 years ago | (#292099)

I am not ranting about Tiananmen Square.

I am saying:

1. Belonging to a nation with a history of civil rights abuse, most markedly visible in the Tiananmen Square massacre, is going to make protesting a very much last resort act. Even if it was 12 years ago, it must still be embedded in the nations consciousness.

2. The Chinese government, and other governments like it, are not swayed by public protest. They dictate.

Just because Asia looks more and more westernised to us, does not mean that the governments have changed their attitudes to their people.

Side note: it is not communism that I dislike, or that I feel causes the problems we are seeing, but corrupt, despotic government.

Re:pseudo babble (1)

sydb (176695) | more than 13 years ago | (#292100)

yeah, let's call a truce.

Re:not so fast (1)

sydb (176695) | more than 13 years ago | (#292101)

You got me.

Re:not so fast (1)

sydb (176695) | more than 13 years ago | (#292102)

Flamebait? Moi?

Re:not so fast (2)

sydb (176695) | more than 13 years ago | (#292106)

What the students should do is protest,

Cast your mind back to June 4th 1989 [christusrex.org] .

Caution: the above link may cause some people distress.

Organized crime and shopping in Taiwan (2)

wytcld (179112) | more than 13 years ago | (#292107)

Keep in mind that the reason Mao won in China was that the Nationalists were closely allied with the criminal tongs - something of a public relations problem at the time, compared to the Marxist pose of purity - and when the Nationalists retreated to Taiwan they took their allies with them (in many cases, their allies were them). So when the present Taiwanese government cracks down on file sharing, they have a direct interest in encouraging the sale of physical product, even (especially) if bootlegged, because the bootleggers are close allies with the government.

Nor is this necessarily a bad thing for Taiwan. In fact, it seems that mainland China has enthusiasticly embraced this model, which in fact is the ancient Chinese Imperial way of doing business. As some wags suggest, when we say "capitalism" we often really mean "current business customs among English speakers." It may be somewhat against our custom for government to be so close to criminal gangs (although remember J. Edgar Hoover was fond enough of the Mafia to insist publicly for years that there was no such thing in America!), but as Taiwan shows, when handled right, this can produce a vibrant capitalist economy.

On the other hand, when viewed from the culture of 50-years hence, if we make it that far, I suspect the RIAA will appear to have been a criminal gang.

Re:People getting screwed (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 13 years ago | (#292111)

"
2. Most schools, obviously, are run and owned by the government, and thus government is allowed to circumvent many laws with regard to access and
search. It's probably Unconstitutional, but the courts have seemingly long since given up on demaning ANY substantive "probable cause" for issuing warrants.
"

You make it sound as if this took place in the USA. However, it didn't.

FP.
--

Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 13 years ago | (#292112)

If that were only the case. I know in many of the more backward (and they think they're more advanced) countries in Europe, the "paraphenalia" is illegal. A clean glass bong is illegal, even if it's obviously unused. Sad but true.

Similarly, as we speak, the US is trying to make all hemp rope plants illegal (with 10^-5 THC yield, i.e. nothing), because it will make their war on drugs easier to police.

It happens everywhere, it's far easier to use a broader brush...

FP.
--

Re:Down with the students! May they burn in hell! (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 13 years ago | (#292113)

"
It's VERY out of whack! The punishment no longer fits the crime anywhere in the USA. As one poster pointed out on an earlier /. story, it's possible to get a FRACTION of the jail time for running over Jack Valenti in your car (vehicular manslaughter) than violating the DMCA!
"

I'm confused. Are either of those crimes? They both sound like good things to do.

FP.
--

Re:Music industry does it again * rant * (2)

fatphil (181876) | more than 13 years ago | (#292115)

In the eyes of the generators of the music, they have broken the law. So they ought to be punished somehow. I suggest the fairest punishment is to make them pay for the albums that they have. However, as _no_ retailer, _no_ wholesaler, _no_ distributor, (and no marketing) was needed in order to get the album to the offender. That should keep the fine down to quite a reasonable level, don't you think...

FP.
--

Re:Same with WareZ (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 13 years ago | (#292119)

back in the days of 300-2400 baud modems, we were DAMNED lucky to have CDROMS, much less anything that could RECORD CDs.

He said 14.4k modems. I knew someone who used a BBS on a 14.4k modem in about 1992/1993 (when 14.4k was blindingly fast - we were using text mode of course, none of this HTML shit).
We used to get "warez" (we were honest enough to call them 'pirated', but not honest enough to pay full price ;-> ) on CD-R from a friend who had a burner brought back from Thailand.

Havent' the governments learned? (2)

otter42 (190544) | more than 13 years ago | (#292121)

NEVER, EVER, go after students. Haven't the governments learned anything from the near revolution in France in the late 60's, the riots in America in the late 60's, Tiananman Square, etc.? Students are the last people in the world to piss off!

Maybe it's because we have no resposibilties freeing us up to devote ourselves heart and soul. Maybe it's because we still have our enthusiasm.

But the best way I can see for any music association to destroy its power is to attack the students. If this were to occur in the US, I feel that within 5 years the laws would be so radically changed that the RIAA would be nothing more than an archaic symbol stripped of all power.

So I say, keep it up, Taiwan. The sooner you go after individual students, the sooner those future leaders will come to resent copywright monopolies.

What's the maximum sentence for this? (2)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 13 years ago | (#292123)

What kind of penalties do they have for this sort of thing in Taiwan? I would really hate to think that some copyright megalopoly would seek to enforce its laws in a country where people who break stupid IP laws that shouldn't exist and are in dire need of reform get caned or have their hands chopped off or something. Actually if this did happen on a mass scale it might help to turn public sentiment completely against the robber barons, and maybe then something could finally be done to put these people in check.

What Taiwan is really afraid of (2)

abe ferlman (205607) | more than 13 years ago | (#292129)

Given Red China's military superiority and the US's weak pledge of support, I think this [modernhumorist.com] is what they're really afraid of :)

Hehe (1)

Monkeyman334 (205694) | more than 13 years ago | (#292130)

I think we should just change the format to *.hah or something. I think it would be a few years before the RIAA figured out that they were still mp3's. Cmon, it's such a buzzword (extention)! Also, how do they get access to this? Do they go on your win98 box and do a file find for *.mp3? Or on linux how do they login? I guess they could just take it apart and look at the bits or something, but all that work to find some college student that traded some mp3s, ew. The mp3 collection isn't worth what it takes to take apart a HD.

Re:There is a way (2)

DickBreath (207180) | more than 13 years ago | (#292133)

The university authorities urged students to remain calm and focus on their studies.

Yeah. Just remain calm and focus on your studies while we drag away your fellow students to either be questioned or jailed for the horrific crime of trading mp3s.

And while we're turning the place upside down looking for mp3s we might also find other subversive contraband.

StegFS (1)

Xardion (215668) | more than 13 years ago | (#292135)

These guys need to use StegFS. It's all about plausible deniability, heh.

Sounds to me like... (2)

Mik!tAAt (217976) | more than 13 years ago | (#292136)

...another use for StegFS [cam.ac.uk] .

(Evil Music Industry Spy): OK you little pirate scum, what's the password?
(Innocent College Student): ********, sir.
(Evil Music Industry Spy): Hmm, only GPL'd software here, no MP3's in here. Let's move on. Sorry to bother you.
(Innocent College Pirate^H^H^H^H^H^H Student): Oh, No Problem (evil grin)

In for a penny, in for a pound (1)

KarmaBlackballed (222917) | more than 13 years ago | (#292138)

Anyone that buys into the misconception of government enforced intellectual monopolies (ie, I own these thoughts and the police will back me up) have already weakened their ability to argue against these jack-booted contraband raids.

Wake up people: this is the natural evolution of recognizing sounds and ideas as something that can be stolen.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~ the real world is much simpler ~~

If you can own it, someone can steal it. (1)

KarmaBlackballed (222917) | more than 13 years ago | (#292139)

If you allow that ideas and sounds can be owned, then you acknowledge that there is a risk of it being stolen. It is only a matter of interpretation in the gray zone how far you push police involvement. Remember, the folks with the money will always have an enforcement voice that is louder than anyone else's.

Music is sound. Someone has a right to make money off those sounds? (Keyword here being right, not just opportunity.)

This world brought to you courtesy of the state recognized intellectual monopoly known as copyright.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~ the real world is much simpler ~~

Re:In for a penny, in for a pound (1)

KarmaBlackballed (222917) | more than 13 years ago | (#292140)

easy to see your point: raids are just another enforcement tool.

Exactly!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~ the real world is much simpler ~~

vaguely familiar (1)

unperson (223869) | more than 13 years ago | (#292142)

I remember a scene from the movie Running Man , where Arnold was looking through the female lead's cassette collection, and saying "They're all on the censored list". I remember that in particular, because I told the guys I was watching the movie with that the crime of owning "illegal uncensored music" was preposterous. And that we would never see anything that stupid in a civilized democratic country...ya ya ya...needless to say, I'm sighing and eating my foot now.

countermeasures? (1)

YellowSubRoutine (230089) | more than 13 years ago | (#292144)

A couple of countermeasures: encrypted filesystems (www.kerneli.org) or pgpdrive (www.pgpi.com).
Open ftp servers with free upload directory's could provide legal protection (everyone can up, and you can't catch up).

I'm sure there are many others, but I have the best of them all, no illegal mp3's at all (hm, almost ;)

Re:MP3s are getting a bad name (2)

DeadMeat (TM) (233768) | more than 13 years ago | (#292145)

Moronic slogans? You mean like this [modernhumorist.com] ?

Same Old... (3)

LordArathres (244483) | more than 13 years ago | (#292147)

I am drawing several similarities between this and the case against Kevin Mitnick.

"Let's single out somone and beat them into the ground with lawsuits, jail etc... and soon people will be afraid to cross us. We Rule!" The Music Industry.

We live in a strange world, and it keeps getting BETTER!

Arathres


I love my iBook. I use it to run Linux!

There has GOT to be something we can do (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 13 years ago | (#292150)

...to stop US companies from influencing governments of other countries in in ways that are inconsistant with procedure in the U.S. We tell ourselves that this sort of thing could never happen in the U.S. but so what???? What about the rest of the world? Why should the companies that represent the U.S. in other countries be allowed to present an image inconsistant with accepted practice in the U.S.??? Maybe they don't have the concept of "due process" as we understand it in all other parts of the world, but should U.S. industry be allowed to exploit that?

More interestingly, but very off-topic, is the fact that so many people in the U.S. cite "human rights" violations issues across the world yet our businesses continue to exploit and even encourage human rights violations in order to build cheaper sneakers!?

Franly, I'm sick of it and I'm ready for a revolution.

Re:easy way to circumvent (1)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#292151)

"you could even edit the source of a mp3 player to allow that extension"

It's farasier to do it than that. Just add your fake extension to your MIME type for MP3 files. XMMS doesn't care about the filename, just that it's something it can read.

Re:People getting screwed (2)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#292153)

"Why does being a student make it any different from if we were not? Raids on student accomodation should be reacted to exactly as raids on domestic homes would be."

Three things make being a student "different", with respect to the government:

1. Students are in the most impressionable stage of their lives, one reason why so much effort is concentrated on the educational establishment by special interests (enviro-wackos, wacko cause `celeb-of-the-month, and any other radical, pro-GOVERNMENT authority groups). By wacking some students, the government can use the terroristic fear to silence and affect thousands more. And they carry this fear to their adult professional lives.

2. Most schools, obviously, are run and owned by the government, and thus government is allowed to circumvent many laws with regard to access and search. It's probably Unconstitutional, but the courts have seemingly long since given up on demaning ANY substantive "probable cause" for issuing warrants.

3. Students are students. NOT working professionals. This means they are not earning significant income, and thus, are far less likely to be able to turn around and fight back with any effect. In other words, students are vulnerable to being exploited by the legal system, where the public defenders are most likely IN bed with the local legal "establishment" or else too incompetent to be hired by the corpers and strike it rich.

Re:People getting screwed (2)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#292154)

"Why does being a student make it any different from if we were not? Raids on student accomodation should be reacted to exactly as raids on domestic homes would be."

Which they SHOULD be. I really don't understand how schools get away with the level of "co-operation" with government in conducting such raids. I also don't understand how there can be ANY legal difference between a home you own or rent off campus, with a dorm you RENT on campus!

IMO, the difference has more to do with the campus dorm being GOVERNMENT PROPERTY and the private, off campus apartment being PRIVATE property.

Re:Down with the students! May they burn in hell! (2)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#292155)

"Another amazing pirating scam that in Taiwan is credit card fraud, which is more widespread in that country than any other. One can now get a fake credit card made there in under 3 minutes, and most people are afraid to use their legitimate credit cards for fear of the number being stolen by a planted clerk"

Could this be like the way we do it here in the USA? After all, we have violent criminals being let loose by the thousand every day to make jail space for largely non-violent drug offenders... (and, it should be noted, largely "somehow" letting the VIOLENT drug lords get away).

It's VERY out of whack! The punishment no longer fits the crime anywhere in the USA. As one poster pointed out on an earlier /. story, it's possible to get a FRACTION of the jail time for running over Jack Valenti in your car (vehicular manslaughter) than violating the DMCA!

Just like any other profession, law enforcement would rather take lower-risk path of arresting people less likely to kill them. Hell, they will jump right on this bandwagon! Mp3 users are a lot less likely to kill cops than are even drug users!

Re:People getting screwed (2)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#292156)

"You make it sound as if this took place in the USA. However, it didn't."

I was more commentin on the rash of college dorm raids in the USA that have been ./ stories. I dont' know WHAT the law is in Taiwan.

Re:What if they try this here? (2)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#292157)

"So you would open fire on a bunch of federal agents with a signed search warrant. This would get you killed and the corporate press would report you as just another maniac with a gun, who shot at some brave guys doing their job. Legal gun ownership is great in theory, but remember who has all the power and control of the press."

I'm not advocating such violence. However, the government has shown an increasing willingness to violate the law, especially in these armed stormtrooper raids. Sooner or later, something is going to happen.

Re:What to make of this? (2)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#292158)

"There are bootleg CD's sold in stores all the place right? That has to be costing the recording industry many times as much as lost revenue from MP3's. Is the case law and legal system in Taiwan such that making and selling pirate CD's is impossible to prosecute, but owning MP3's is easy?"

Even mom and pop store owners have more political clout than an unemployed student. I think some others are right, piracy is rampant in Taiwan, and the government went along with this to both appease the RIAA (making it look like they will crack down), but yet not do anything to anger their own business community.

So, they bust those not making money off piracy and let the ones that ARE scoot... Isn't that rather like how the USA treats the "drug war"?

Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (2)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#292159)

"If that were only the case. I know in many of the more backward (and they think they're more advanced) countries in Europe, the "paraphenalia" is illegal. A clean glass bong is illegal, even if it's obviously unused. Sad but true."

We have that law here in the USA now... The DMCA. The MPAA has already gotten a utility (DeCSS) declared so illegal that you can't even link to it. What does DeCSS do? It allows you to watch a DVD that you bought on the OS or player of your choice...

Just because DeCSS COULD be used to eliminate CSS encryption, it's "illegal paraphenalia".

What if they try this here? (3)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#292162)

I have NO doubt in my mind whatsoever that these terrorist raid tactics used in Taiwan is nothing but a dress rehearsal for what they want to start doing in the US.

And I have one question: Even IF the RIAA busts into your apartment and seizes your hard drive full of MP3's, HOW can they prove that they aren't tracks you made from music that you had bought? Even if they WERENT? I have yet to see a CD or casette come with a software like "shrink wrap EULA" that states that you have to keep the license and originals as proof of purchase.

After all, there is a well established, Constitutionally protected right of "fair use" (though being eroded constantly by moronc Federal "judges" (Kaplan) and illegal statutory law (DMCA).

Also, in the USA, you are legally innocent UNTIL they prove you guilty beyond a REASONABLE doubt. They have to PROVE that you didn't make those MP3's from stuff you'd bought over the years, but may not have kept the originals. Thus it seems likely that it would be hard to make any such case stick, unless they could seize logs or something that showed you using Napster.

However, as we well know, the corpers are writing the laws and are paying the lawyers who become judges (Kaplan). Just as the DeCSS case verdict was irrational, Constitutionally illegal, and indefensible (as was Kaplan's conflicted conduct), there is sure to be a RIAA vs. Joe Napster user that will be just as stupid.

What is happening, IMO, is the RIAA is trying to establish a precedent somewhere, that they can then con some local or Federal jackboots into following HERE, to treat people who have MP3's like drug dealers and software Warez sellers.

If this starts happening here, well, now you anti-gun ownership people understand the argument that I and others make for the reason BEHIND the fact that the Founders included the right to "keep and bear arms" right in the second amendment. The right to bear arms is intended to keep the government in line, and within the law.

To be honest, though, I wonder if the RIAA realizes what would happen if they started such raids in the USA? I think there would be a CONSIDERABLE public backlash against them.

Or maybe I'm putting too much faith in the sheep masses who keep voting for the same two (one) party system all the time. The same parties that are so similar in their desire to kowtow to the corpers that they unanimously, and secretly, voice voted in the DMCA.

Re:What if they try this here? (3)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#292163)

"Yes, Clinton has NAFTA, the WTO, and Marc Rich to answer for. But do you honestly think the ergonomic rules, national monument designations, or arsenic rules were examples of Clinton bowing to the wishes of big business?"

No, the "ergonomics" rules (passed by no legislature, with no public debate, but IMPOSED in an autocratic fashion by executive "fiat") were put in place to appease the Trial Lawyers.

The US Trial Lawyers are the largest contributors to the Democratic Party. The more regulations, the more money THEY make.

How can you NOT call the plantiff's lawyer industry a BIG BUSINESS?


easy way to circumvent (1)

IanA (260196) | more than 13 years ago | (#292165)

a very easy way to do this would be to simply make a script changing all the extensions of files in a directory from mp3 to .whatever and back again. you could even edit the source of a mp3 player to allow that extension. clear your bash history often, put the files somewhere difficult for a not-you person to find, and you've circumvented mp3 checks if you use a UNIX box

not so fast (2)

deran9ed (300694) | more than 13 years ago | (#292167)

I must disagree with with this statement, "Those sound like pretty good things to encourage anyhow to me." Encouraging people to break laws is not a joking matter especially in a strict system in a 3rd world country.

Sure Asia has some strict laws [internet.com] , but telling people to break them is not the solution, and will only enforce their government's petty stance on regulations. What the students should do is protest, make the world aware of the harsh sentences being imposed in their countries. Lobby to get them removed

If some states in the US started trying to circumvent drug laws by hiding their "stashes" their breaking the laws just as well so you can't have it one way and not the other. Fsck yea I disagree with someone like the government's bs, but at the same time a rule is a rule no matter how you cut it.

Now on the flip side of things, I hope their doing a good enough job of ridding their songs. If not they could use BCWipe [jetico.com] to rid them, or if their laws allow for encryption, they could write an hourly cron script to tar then pgp them without destroying evidence.

Personally some of those students who are protesting, should look into getting into politics to ease things for their future kin.

use the source! [antioffline.com]

Re:not so fast (2)

deran9ed (300694) | more than 13 years ago | (#292168)

I knew someone would bring up Tiananmen on this one. One of the things to remember, are the differences in date. Its doubtable with the way things are there would be a repeat of it, as the world would be watching. So instead of even trolling about that I'll just quote.
"In the years since June 1989 China has changed enormously. Since that time the USA and the world have witnessed several genocides (Rwanda and Bosnia for example). Yet Americans seem peculiarly troubled by what happened in Tiananmen Square over ten years ago.


It is time to stop dwelling on this one particular event in modern Chinese history. We must look at our own past, see our own experiences, and not pass judgement blindly. In the words of the memorial to the Kent State massacre, we should "Inquire, Learn, Reflect."
quote source [sinomania.com]

Re:not so fast (2)

deran9ed (300694) | more than 13 years ago | (#292169)

Well this will be the last I respond to this to not sway or troll longer.

However, imagine YOU are a student in a country where 12 years ago the government killed it's own people for peaceful protest. Do you go out on the streets over some MP3s? Personally I would move, and if under given circumstances I couldn't then yes I would look into raising awareness via form of protest or other methods, such as switching into the political realm so future folk would not have to deal with it.

Re:not so fast (2)

deran9ed (300694) | more than 13 years ago | (#292170)

I post at 2. Aside from that what does that have to do with anything? Like I said I don't wanna troll about it, but to think that Tiananmen square would repeat is absurd, especially with tensions on the rise all around, and another protest would likely garter immediate attention, and close scrutiny of the government. So again whats your point?

know your role (2)

deran9ed (300694) | more than 13 years ago | (#292171)

Well then your point is well missed, since you have nothing to substantiate anything you said. You can't compare something that happened 12 years ago with this instance, without supporting the claims.

Don't be mislead, I sympathize with the families of those lost in that massacre, but at the same time, common sense would tell some, that another repeat of that incident would be rare, and their political officials know it would impact their economy in a harsh fashion.

So to just rant on about Tiananment Square is opening up a can of worms, only the worms are dead... Meaningless at this point.

pseudo babble (2)

deran9ed (300694) | more than 13 years ago | (#292172)

Agreed which is why I stated that some of the students who opposed these things should air their concerns, they should know (or hopefully be aware) that the world would be watching to see that another massacre would not occur.

Again I also stated that those who are oppressed should look into getting into politics now to aviod having their kin subjected to this in the future. I don't disagree with your points, maybe I'm too tired to take them for what their worth, and I sincerely agree with most of the things you've said to an extent. About the westernization, you have to understand, they have to form their own laws, judgments, etc., its kind of like what the US had in the 60's in the form of racism, its a long road but slowly, people are moving towards better modes of life.

Re:IFPI completely missing "clue" (3)

deran9ed (300694) | more than 13 years ago | (#292173)

they should attack the criminal organizations creating these that clearly violate Taiwanese copyright, not students that are engaging in what may actually be considered fair use under Taiwanese law. My impression is that the law there has not yet been clarified in that manner.

Agreed, but thinking the government is going to attack "cities of industry" within criminal enterprises is like telling them "Go to war" as opposes to just finding a scapegoat. Maybe I'm not saying it right since I'm tired as shit so let me rephrase.

If some of these criminal enterprises are contributing money to anyone in underhanded fashions, then it'd be easier to their music industry to pass blame on students, and have the government go after them.

At least in the U.S., the CDs we buy in stores are bona fide copies. Now, I'm no fan of RIAA; I believe that they don't really serve a purpose other than to promote a monopolistic view for music, to keep the recording industry's profit margins nice and fat while the common artist is screwed.

Well out here in New York City, there is a slight problem with bootleg copies of music, in fact (no bullshit) while passing by Federl Plaza last week there were bootleggers selling those CD's in front of the FBI's headquarters. (The bootleggers don't worry though, government only goes after cypherpunks [about.com] . I think there are more important issues than going after the students as well. As for the RIAA, its a business like any other one, they do what they can to generate their revenue, its all fair game.

know your law (3)

deran9ed (300694) | more than 13 years ago | (#292174)

First of all thats a shitty case to reference as Kevin was blatantly committing crimes. Sure the government pounded law after law after law on Kevin but he is no martyr nor should he be treated as one.

I totally disagree with him getting shafted on a trial for so long, and one of the things I blame on society is their lack of knowledge regarding computer crimes, etc., etc., and the so called "jury of your peers" bs.

Referencing Kevin is like a pro doo hickey radical coming here, and saying something like "Well Timothy McVeigh was right to think that be committing his crime, he would make those aware of the bs gov is spewing on groups like those in Waco" or something like that.

Kevin was a criminal no one gave him permission to go into any of those networks, had it been a flip side situation where he was contemplating selling information he garnered, (which no one but him will ever know) people would've called for harsh sentencing.

Re:MPAA, RIAA, other countries (1)

berzerke (319205) | more than 13 years ago | (#292181)

You are not alone in you opinion that corporations wield way too much power. I have responded by trying to shift my business to non-big corporations where feasible. I've found I get better service, a product that's no worse (and in some cases, better), for about the same price (sometimes slightly higher, sometimes slightly lower - it averages out to about the same).

In other cases, I boycott. I haven't bought a CD since this whole Napster suit started. I haven't bought a DVD either or gone to see a movie since the DeCSS case started, and don't intend to. I enlighten others about the region encoding, and have convinced a few to at least hold off their purchases.

You want to change the corporations, hit'em where it hurts - the balance book.

Same with WareZ (1)

roguerez (319598) | more than 13 years ago | (#292182)

I remember the days before I started my own 14k4 bulletin board. Some of the sysops I knew also traded warez. Usually not online, modems were too slow for that purpose (heck, a lot of us still used 2400 baud modems), but mostly on CD. There were stories about them having large magnets close by, so they could wipe their HDs when the cops arrived. The CDs contents were encrypted and inaccessible without the proper key.

Re:Same with WareZ (1)

roguerez (319598) | more than 13 years ago | (#292183)

In The Netherlands, where you don't have a flat local telephone fee, it was silly to download all day. Especially since some providers also billed per minute of connection time. This could add up to about $3/hour or $6/hour during working hours. For a poor student, this was kind of expensive.

Re:Same with WareZ (1)

roguerez (319598) | more than 13 years ago | (#292184)

Why?

Re:Same with WareZ (1)

roguerez (319598) | more than 13 years ago | (#292185)

Actually I was born in 1972. But in a country without flat local telephone fees. US != the world.

Re:Same with WareZ (1)

roguerez (319598) | more than 13 years ago | (#292186)

It seems some of you are having reading problems. I'm not talking about 1990 at all. I'm talking about ~1994.

Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (2)

UltraBot2K1 (320256) | more than 13 years ago | (#292187)

"That my friends is how terrorism works. You don't strike the strongest, most visible targets in this case organizations like Philips Electronics for making stuff like mp3 cd players, you attack the small targets that everyone assumes are more or less outside the conflict"

*Bzzzzt*! Wrong! If terrorists struck the small, irrelevant targets, no one would care about terrorism. Seriously, terrorism is a serious threat in our country, largely due to the World Trade Center bombing. You take out an 80 story building and people notice. If those guys had done what you suggested and said "Hey Shiek Ahmed, you busy? Let's go bomb some old lady's barn in the middle of Hicksville." No one would have cared, because they're attacking an obscure an inconsequential part of society. True, the little guys don't hold out as long in a fight, but nobody notices, and that's the whole point of terrorism.

There is a way (3)

eadz (412417) | more than 13 years ago | (#292190)

I'm sure they will find a way to evade the athorities. I just hope it isn't a sony memory stick somewhere where the sun don't shine.

Re:What if they try this here? (1)

KilljoyAZ (412438) | more than 13 years ago | (#292191)

No, the "ergonomics" rules (passed by no legislature, with no public debate, but IMPOSED in an autocratic fashion by executive "fiat") were put in place to appease the Trial Lawyers.

I agree that trial lawyers have much to gain with new ergonomic regulations and probably helped push for them. But I have some issues with you assertion that it was pushed through solely because of the trial lawyers. Here's why: 1) If I accept that trial lawyers are the largest donors to the Democratic party (I don't know if this is true or not) then I also have to accdept that the trial lawyers donations' to the Democratic Party eclipse the donations by all other business donors, who were universally opposed to the rules. I find that hard to believe. 2) What I do know is the labor unions were also pushing hard for the rule, and were the people I heard crying the loudest when Bush repealed them.

As for public debate, the Occupational Health and Safety Administration held public hearings and debates for 10 years on the issue [ctdnews.com] . Just because it wasn't done in the halls of Congress and they were considered too dull for even C-SPAN to carry doesn't mean they were done behind closed doors. I'd discuss the increased power of the executive branch and it's impacts on our system of checks and balances with you (and we'd probably agree on a lot), but it's April 14th and I haven't finished my taxes yet :)

Re:What if they try this here? (3)

KilljoyAZ (412438) | more than 13 years ago | (#292196)

Or maybe I'm putting too much faith in the sheep masses who keep voting for the same two (one) party system all the time.

I really wish people like Nader would stop insisting that there is no difference between Bush and Gore. I think Bush has proven in the first 100 days how far away from Gore he actually is on the environment, the abortion debate, worker safety, the energy crisis, gun regulations, Justice Department priorities (see Microsoft case), the worldwide AIDS epidemic, the degree of separation of church and state, acceptable levels of judicial activism, military intervention, school vouchers, taxes, and foreign policy. Dubya is not as moderate as he would have us believe during the election. About the only thing the parties have in common is the relentless pursuit of fundraising and the willingness to be corrupted by it.

But Democrats are also beholden to labor unions and environmental groups, and Republicans are beholden to the war hawks and religious right. The split among Democrats was shown during the WTO and NAFTA debates; the split among Republicans during this latest China mess

Yes, Clinton has NAFTA, the WTO, and Marc Rich to answer for. But do you honestly think the ergonomic rules, national monument designations, or arsenic rules were examples of Clinton bowing to the wishes of big business?

There are even difference within the Democratic and Republican parties. It would be intellectually dishonest to say Sen. John Breaux shared every view with Rep. Maxine Waters, or that Sen. Olympia Snowe was in lockstep with Sen. Strom Thurmond. Guess what? Nader LIED, like EVERY other politician does, in order to secure your vote. Don't get me wrong, a lot of what Nader said about corporate power in this country made a lot of sense, and I agreed with it. But if the best that the Greens can do is to mischaracterize 90% of the politicians as "one and the same," instead of convincing people of the strength of their platform, it's no wonder that they never get very far in national elections.

Unfortunately these two parties do agree on the topic of copyright in the digital age (because basically they listen to whatever the *AA tells them). It has a lot to do with money, but it also has a lot to do with the power the media conglomerates hold in this country. The companies that own the news organizations also own record companies and movie studios. Today we live in the age of television and 24 hour news coverage. Most are too afraid to do anything to hurt the media conglomerates' bottom line because politicians are so dependent upon positive media coverage.

As for many of the "sheep," copyright law isn't as important to them as it is to you or me. Most are more concerned with issues like abortion, education, and taxes. These are places where the parties differ.

What about offices? (1)

dev!null!4d (414252) | more than 13 years ago | (#292199)

Even scaryier is the idea if the start raiding offices... how many off us download mp3's on the companys connection to later burn on cds to take home? not me... hehe >

Re:Same with WareZ (1)

The Gentleman AC (441790) | more than 13 years ago | (#292200)

Hey, those were the days of 5meg games. 5megs / 14.4k = 347 minutes / 60 = 5.8 hours = overnight for a game. A day for a 20meg game (say, Doom2). People download distros on 56k modems/3 days -- this doesn't sound silly.

Music industry does it again * rant * (2)

Ling Ling (442893) | more than 13 years ago | (#292201)

Ok, so you got 14 students caught with mp3s. Sure, they broke the law. But now there's a bunch of RIAA-type nazi assholes that are taking those 14 students and placing them on a pedestal. Those 14 students will probably have a hard time with their studies, having to talk to lawyers and go to court sessions and all, and if this case does start to escalate, I'm sure that they'll have to drop or postpone their studies. The music industry gets to deny these 14 students the opportunity to get a better education. The unlucky 14, at that. If I was a music artist represented by a group that goes off and persecutes small groups of people for the sake of generating fear amongst the rest of the populace who download mp3s, I think I'd leave. But appartently (aside from those bitch-ass pussies Metallica and sell-out Dr.Gay), many artist do support this kind of persecution implicitly by not speaking up and taking a stand against bullshit like this.


You finding Ling-Ling's head?
Someone come into yard, kill dog.

Re:What if they try this here? (1)

deaddrunk (443038) | more than 13 years ago | (#292202)

So you would open fire on a bunch of federal agents with a signed search warrant. This would get you killed and the corporate press would report you as just another maniac with a gun, who shot at some brave guys doing their job. Legal gun ownership is great in theory, but remember who has all the power and control of the press.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?