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Surface RT vs. iPad: a Comparison

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the ok-cupid-would-match-them-up dept.

Handhelds 357

First time accepted submitter thetechblock writes "On Tuesday, with the release of pricing and pre-orders for the new Surface RT tablets, Twitter exploded with comparisons to the iPad. So, I decided to put together a little comparison chart to contrast two equivalent models." The comparison is interesting, but note the source; you can discount the conclusions of writer Jeff Blankenburg by as much as you want for his role as "developer evangelist" for Microsoft.

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357 comments

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Yawn (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41694229)

Wake me up when there is a review by someone that isn't on either Apple or Redmond's payroll. This was nothing more than an advertisement.

Re:Yawn (5, Funny)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 2 years ago | (#41694267)

Wake me up when comments on Slashdot stories about Microsoft products are not filled with 90% snarky drivel.

Re:Yawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694389)

In the year 2525, if Frosty Piss is still alive, if MS can survive, they may find...

Re:Yawn (3, Informative)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41694529)

Try neowin? It is the anti slashdot [neowin.net] of the internet.

Of course since it is a polar opposite of slashdot, you see those who criticize METRO as flamebait and corrected as it is modern which is strange after being here. As well as posts saying Wahoo I can't wait for this Windows 8 tablet!

I read this as well as neowin because I figured the truth is somewhere in between.

Re:Yawn (4, Insightful)

poetmatt (793785) | about 2 years ago | (#41694855)

So you're saying, try reading an incredibly biased website? At least slashdot is neutral and the issue is trolls, neowin is explicitly pro microsoft.

Re:Yawn (0, Troll)

LeopardSeal (1397961) | about 2 years ago | (#41694995)

At least slashdot is neutral and the issue is trolls

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa, grblgrblgblg, HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa! Thanks, that made my day.

Re:Yawn (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41695065)

I'm sorry did you say neutral? Even if Microsoft discovered the cure for cancer and released it for free, /. would still find a way to put an evil spin on it.

Re:Yawn (5, Interesting)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41695153)

Slashdot is extremely biased. But that is not a bad thing if you are into Unix and computer science. I thought Slashdot was moderate 10 years ago before I turned more conservative in my views and warmed up to Microsoft as I started working more and more in corporate area. MS and its products really did blow 10 years ago. Today they make sense in certain scenarios. Windows 7 is ok. Notice I did not refer to it as great :-)

Anything with MS is bashed galore here and I have been accused all sorts of names for stating why I switched back to MS Office from LibreOffice as an example.

Neowin is no different. It is filled with those who like Microsoft and those who are neutral as well. I see Android users on there too bash the surface with a few surface trolls go at it back and forth. Nothing like here on slashdot. Hairyfeet is the only user I know who does not get modded to -1 when defending Windows over Linux but he is an exception.

Re:Yawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694881)

Holy cow. Google Chromebook is for fanboi's I am sticking with the surface [neowin.net] .

It is the anti-slashdot! These people are nuts.

Re:Yawn (0, Offtopic)

cayenne8 (626475) | about 2 years ago | (#41694967)

I read this as well as neowin because I figured the truth is somewhere in between.

Kinda like how I like to switch between MSNBC and Fox News....try to balance things out.

However, of late...MSNBC seems to be going really far off to the very left edge...so, sometimes I have to mix them with a little CNN and regular NBC...to keep more of a balance.

Fox is pretty far right at times...but man, MSNBC...gets very close to the deep end much more so on their side from my observations past months...

But, it is always good to listen and read as many views on any subject you are interested in....you never learn anything new, if you just listen to someone that parrots your current views on said subject...

Re:Yawn (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41695039)

NPR.org is the left. MSNBC is moderate.

Re:Yawn (0)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | about 2 years ago | (#41695127)

I see Fox News as more "Republican Campaign Headquarters" and MSNBC as more "Democratic Campaign Headquarters". The idea behind MSNBC (now NBC news) is to differentiate itself by being the polar opposite of Fox News.

I steer clear of both websites and instead look at AP, NPR, and BBC with a mix of dumbed down news from CNN and USA Today. Also if a big news story emerges, I check the byline and google for local news coverage from that area. This way I get up to date news without the editorial spin of national coverage.

Re:Yawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694709)

Wake me up before you gogo.

Re:Yawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694787)

Spew.

Re:Yawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694991)

SHUTUP SHILL.

Re:Yawn (1, Insightful)

adam.rankin (2755613) | about 2 years ago | (#41694329)

This was my first article about the Surface. I learned a few things (aka USB 2.0 port and multi-user OS) that I didn't know about before. Sure his opinion was all over the place, but there was unbiased info if you chose to look for it.

Re:Yawn (2)

tverbeek (457094) | about 2 years ago | (#41694707)

"...there was unbiased info if you chose to look for it."

Translation: "...he included facts in his comparison."

Re:Yawn (1)

packman (156280) | about 2 years ago | (#41694757)

I don't get the "I want usb2 on my tablet"... I used to be a tablet skeptic until I actually used an iPad, and the point of a tablet, it being Android, iPad, Windows 8, ... is that it is portable. Not that you could attach things to it. I have an iPad, bought a 'hdmi' adapter, but found out I rarely used it, it was not practical to have a cable attached to it. Got myself a $99 AppleTV and now stream everything over WiFi. Same for printers, keyboards, ... I simply don't want any wires, which covers almost all USB devices?

SD-cards or some form of external memory would be usefull, at least if the OS's would support it properly, and I haven't seen any OS (including Android) that doesn't require a lot of tricks to ensure everything works fine when removing the storage (running apps on external memory which is removed anyone?).

Re:Yawn (1)

adam.rankin (2755613) | about 2 years ago | (#41694899)

Got myself a $99 AppleTV

This is why I like the concept of having a USB port. I don't have to do a single thing and all my existing solutions still work (external HD, etc...)

Re:Yawn (2, Informative)

dc29A (636871) | about 2 years ago | (#41694363)

Mistake #1:
He compares it to 32 GB iPad, yet fails to mention that Windows and Office alone eat up about 12GB. So in reality, Surface is 20 GB [reddit.com] and not 32.

Obvious shill is obvious.

Re:Yawn (4, Insightful)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41694433)

But it's extensible with cheap SD storage. 20 GB for apps, add in a 64GB SD card for $40 for media. 84 GB total userspace memory, something impossible on iPad.

Re:Yawn (0)

packman (156280) | about 2 years ago | (#41694767)

Only for movies and documents. Apps have to be installed on the internal storage.

Re:Yawn (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41695173)

That's exactly what I said...

Remember, apps on the Windows RT are the metro variety, which are very light. Even on my desktop install, which has the full Office Suite, Adobe CS 6 (Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, Premiere), Matlab, Visual Studio, and a couple games I'm only using 19GB in my Program Files directory. I have about 65 apps installed in Windows 8 and the grand total space utilized by them is 1.5 GB. These include the dozen or so apps installed by default, which may be included in the 12GB number quote as being consumed by the OS.

Re:Yawn (1)

kiriath (2670145) | about 2 years ago | (#41695013)

And nobody wants to have to add and remove cards all the time...

Re:Yawn (1)

Wamoc (1263324) | about 2 years ago | (#41694527)

Mistake #1: He compares it to 32 GB iPad, yet fails to mention that Windows and Office alone eat up about 12GB. So in reality, Surface is 20 GB [reddit.com] and not 32.

Obvious shill is obvious.

And if he compared it to the 16GB iPad that would not have been a fair comparison because the Surface has a lot more storage. The 32GB iPad does not have 32GB of usable storage either. 32GB iPad to 32GB Surface is the closest to a fair comparison.

Close to fair (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 2 years ago | (#41694703)

And if he compared it to the 16GB iPad that would not have been a fair comparison because the Surface has a lot more storage. The 32GB iPad does not have 32GB of usable storage either.

The 32GB iPad has about 30GB free for data. The OS takes up only around 1GB.

So the 16GB iPad would have (to be conservative) 14 GB free for user data. That's quite a lot of space, it can hold a large number of apps/books/movies. Since a lot of people will not not need more than that, why not compare the lowest end models since the Surface only offers 6GB or so of space extra than the iPad?

Re:Close to fair (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694925)

You are a liar. Formatting alone would bring a 32GB drive down to 29-30GB by itself.

Re:Yawn (5, Insightful)

DanTan (1385613) | about 2 years ago | (#41695109)

Mistake #1: He compares it to 32 GB iPad, yet fails to mention that Windows and Office alone eat up about 12GB. So in reality, Surface is 20 GB [reddit.com] and not 32.

Obvious shill is obvious.

The 20 gb size is for windows 8 pro for intel, there are no numbers yet on how bit the windows RT OS is yet.

Re:Yawn (5, Insightful)

MightyYar (622222) | about 2 years ago | (#41694395)

Am I missing something, or did he not even have the unit to review?

Re:Yawn (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41694489)

This was once pretty standard fare for pro-Microsoft journalists. I remember a year before Windows 95 came out that one of the Microsoft-friendly magazines published an article on Chicago extolling its virtues, with pictures showing how great it was, but with a tiny caption indicating that it was an artist's rendering. The whole article, and several like it had but one purpose, and that was dissuade people from moving to alternatives (mainly OS/2, which supported Win16 apps by this point) while Microsoft fought like hell to make a Win32 OS actually work.

It's almost the exact opposite approach to Apple, which uses its veils of secrecy, with the odd fringe lifted ever so slightly, or the odd device "accidentally" left at a bar, to build up anticipation.

Which one is better, we'll see. But it's pretty clear now that Microsoft's competitor right now isn't going to be the iPad, it's going to be the iPad Mini. Which device do you suppose will have long lines waiting to grab said device on release?

Re:Yawn (5, Insightful)

MightyYar (622222) | about 2 years ago | (#41694667)

At least the magazines had the excuse of being written a month before they actually got delivered... this guy is running a frigging blog and his "comparison" involves reading down spec sheets and accessory lists. And he dismisses "almost no apps" and "no accessories" and "inferior screen" as not really being that important. And then the really strange part is his assumption that people will use this for Office apps? Is that what people are doing with tablets?

I've never understood the appeal of the tablets, so I don't really feel like I have a device to "root" for. My wife wanted a Kindle Fire HD, so we got one. I played with it for a few hours and she turned it on once, I think. I asked her why she made me get it and she said "to play videos for the kids in the car". Alrighty, then - glad she didn't ask for an iPad...

Re:Yawn (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41694761)

I'm somewhat the same. I have my iPhone, which I do a lot of casual surfing on, and I use it as an eReader, and the size doesn't bother me too much (I'm now halfway through my reread of the Game of Thrones series, so as an eReader it works okay). But for any heavy lifting when I'm on the road, I have a cheap second hand Acer netbook I bought on eBay for $100. I can type documents, answer email, do remote administration on our servers, and it sure is more effective than trying the same on a tablet.

Re:Yawn (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694435)

This post was removed due to Dice content standards violations.

Re:Yawn (1)

cjjjer (530715) | about 2 years ago | (#41694831)

Am I the only one who has never seen this before?

Re:Yawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694437)

Wake me up when there's a review based on actually USING both devices, not just reading advertised specs.

Re:Yawn (5, Funny)

tverbeek (457094) | about 2 years ago | (#41694669)

I look forward to a comparison of Mitt Romney and Barack Obama, as presented by Karl Rove.

Re:Yawn (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694975)

I look forward to a comparison of Mitt Romney and Barack Obama, as presented by Karl Rove.

Microsoft ... evil ... Apple ... evil ... cannot pick Google ... messiah ... must ... pick ... winner ... does not compute ... does not compute... kernel panic ... rebooting ...

The TechBlock vs User Friendly Website Comparison (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694253)

The second works from the browser you're forced to use at work; the first you never read.

Trash (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694277)

I actual bothered to click the link to the article, and all I see is a comparison of the cost of a few accessories and apps? Where's the comparison of the technical specs? How is this garbage even worth posting?

Re:Trash (5, Insightful)

hawguy (1600213) | about 2 years ago | (#41694459)

I actual bothered to click the link to the article, and all I see is a comparison of the cost of a few accessories and apps? Where's the comparison of the technical specs? How is this garbage even worth posting?

Tech specs seem less relevant when comparing high-end tablets from different manufacturers running completely different operating systems - I'd rather see end-user impressions.

Does the higher resolution of the iPad make any difference in real-life use? Is the larger screen of the MS tablet better or worse than the slightly smaller iPad screen with higher dpi? How fast is the device? Can it run multiple applications and switch smoothly among them? Can I play a video in the corner of the screen while I'm browsing the web? Does it load webpages quickly? How easy is it to use the UI?

Those are the questions I'd like to see answered, if I really want to know what CPU the tablet is running, I can look that up, but knowing the processor and RAM specs tells me nothing about usability.

Re:Trash (0)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41694701)

Tech specs seem less relevant when comparing high-end tablets from different manufacturers running completely different operating systems

Only if you believe in comparing Fariy Dust and Bullshit would it not matter.

Re:Trash (1)

hawguy (1600213) | about 2 years ago | (#41695031)

Tech specs seem less relevant when comparing high-end tablets from different manufacturers running completely different operating systems

Only if you believe in comparing Fariy Dust and Bullshit would it not matter.

I thought the Fairy Dust and Bullshit was in the specs and it's the end-user experience that matters? I don't care if one has an eight core CPU and one has a dual core CPU, I care more about how the apps run.

Re:Trash (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41695027)

Does the higher resolution of the iPad make any difference in real-life use?

Clearly you have never looked at or used a HiDPI display.

Re:Trash (1)

hawguy (1600213) | about 2 years ago | (#41695165)

Does the higher resolution of the iPad make any difference in real-life use?

Clearly you have never looked at or used a HiDPI display.

I have, and while it looks better, I didn't find that I could surf the web any faster or type documents any faster, so that's why I asked if it means any difference in real-life use. My eyes aren't good enough to make use of the tiny fonts that would give me more screen real estate on the 9" iPad display, so I may very well find a tablet with lower resolution and larger screen to be more useful.

Re:Trash (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#41694613)

You don't use tablets for High Performance computing.

They will use the tech specs to show that their new device is faster than the old one. But not comparing it to another product. Why? First when you compare different architectures you are comparing apples with oranges.

The available features is really more important to purchase a Table. What do you get for your money in terms of expandability, experience, future use.

A very MS centric blog indeed... (0)

hattig (47930) | about 2 years ago | (#41694297)

It is clear that the low resolution of the Surface tablet is going to be one of the biggest downsides. People who had a retina iPhone and a non-retina iPad complained a lot that the iPad was very blocky after using the iPhone. Now all smartphones have high DPI displays, so the low resolution of the Surface will be quite obvious.

It does win on flash storage. Of course the amount of that storage taken up by each relevant OS and required software is not considered, but it's probably not significantly different. Hopefully this will drive Apple to actually stop pissing about profiteering from including a crappy amount of flash memory in the iPad by default.

I think the best option is to wait for comprehensive reviews before deciding on which of the two to buy, if those are your two options. The ocean of cheaper smaller-screened tablets are proving to be massively popular - is there an 8" Surface?

Re:A very MS centric blog indeed... (3, Informative)

Sc4Freak (1479423) | about 2 years ago | (#41694467)

The other day, MS's engineering team did an AMA on reddit [reddit.com] where they answered the question of screen resolution:

Hey this is Stevie. Screen resolution is one component of perceived detail. The true measure of resolvability of a screen called Modulation Transfer Function (MTF), not Pixels. MTF is a combination of both contrast and resolution. There are over a dozen subsystems that effect this MTF number.. Most folks just focus on one number out of dozens that effect perceived detail. Without good contrast resolution decreases. Check out contrast sensitivity of the human eye graph (http://www.telescope-optics.net/images/eye_contrast.PNG) and if you want more see the links below. Basically, as resolution/DPI increases the eye has becomes less sensitive. So as a result, the amount of light in a room and the reflections off the screen have a huge effect on the contrast of the display. In fact, a small amount of reflection can greatly reduce contrast and thus the perceived resolution of the display. With the ClearType Display technology we took a 3 pronged approach to maximize that perceived resolution and optimize for battery life, weight, and thickness. First prong, Microsoft has the best pixel rendering technology in the industry (cleartype 1.0 and 2.0) .. these are exclusive and unique to Windows, it smooths text regardless of pixel count. Second, we designed a custom 10.6” high-contrast wide-angle screen LCD screen. Lastly we optically bonded the screen with the thinnest optical stack anywhere on the market.. something which is more commonly done on phones we are doing on Surface. While this is not official, our current Cleartype measurements on the amount of light reflected off the screen is around 5.5%-6.2%, the new IPad has a measurement of 9.9% mirror reflections (see the displaymate link: http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_ShootOut_1.htm [displaymate.com] ). Doing a side by side with the new iPad in a consistently lit room, we have had many people see more detail on Surface RT than on the Ipad with more resolution.

Some more links to share if you want to know more (http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF.html)... Also This is a great book to read if you really want to get into it: http://www.amazon.com/Contrast-Sensitivity-Effects-Quality-Monograph/dp/0819434965 [amazon.com] or more here http://alexandria.tue.nl/extra2/9901043.pdf [alexandria.tue.nl]

So it seems that Microsoft has data that suggests that, despite the lower resolution, the Surface has greater precieved detail than the iPad. (although I find it annoying that they've muddied the waters by re-using trademarks - they've repurposed "Cleartype Display" as the MS equivalent of Apple's "Retina Display")

Re:A very MS centric blog indeed... (1)

Dishwasha (125561) | about 2 years ago | (#41694603)

They must have found the same people off the street that looked at the iPhone 5 before it was released [youtube.com] .

Add a comparison of the nexus 7 product line (3, Interesting)

bobstreo (1320787) | about 2 years ago | (#41694301)

I'm thinking the nexus line is more comparable to the surface tablet, mostly since no itunes.

I'm somewhat leery of continued support from Microsoft given their history of Plays For Sure, Zune...

Re:Add a comparison of the nexus 7 product line (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694461)

The Zune like was discontinued, but they'll continue to work fine. You're not some company on an SLA; what were you expecting, regular new features and apps? It's a standalone media player, not an ecosystem.

Source: me, a Zune HD owner who's quite happy with how things turned out.

So what replaces Pocket PC now? (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41694569)

The Zune like was discontinued

With the demise of both Pocket PC and Zune, what pocket-size product line does Microsoft have that isn't priced to be subsidized by a 24-month cellular voice and data contract?

Re:Add a comparison of the nexus 7 product line (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#41694471)

The Zune marketplace is still alive, but simply rebranded.

Re:Add a comparison of the nexus 7 product line (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694533)

I'm somewhat leery of continued support from Microsoft given their history of Plays For Sure, Zune...

I heard they're replacing it with Really Plays For Sure This Time, Honest.

Re:Add a comparison of the nexus 7 product line (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#41694675)

The Zune failed because it was much too late to the market. It came into the market right when iPod adoption was near peak. While iPods are still popular there are no longer as big as they use to be. The Zune was an attempt to make a copy of the iPod at the same price. While you may say that with the surface. The fact that it is using Windows 8 (A desktop level OS?) means it may fill the void about software.

Re:Add a comparison of the nexus 7 product line (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | about 2 years ago | (#41694867)

The fact that it is using Windows 8 (A desktop level OS?) means it may fill the void about software.

Except that Windows RT can't run x86 Windows apps since it uses an ARM processor.

No keyboard with the Surface? (2, Insightful)

hal2814 (725639) | about 2 years ago | (#41694309)

All I got from this article is that once you add in the cost of the Surface's most notable feature, it costs $20 - $30 more than an equivalent iPad.

Re:No keyboard with the Surface? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694453)

All I got from this article is that once you add in the cost of the Surface's most notable feature, it costs $20 - $30 more than an equivalent iPad.

And $400 more than a more powerful and usable netbook which actually runs your existing Windows software.

Re:No keyboard with the Surface? (4, Informative)

hawguy (1600213) | about 2 years ago | (#41694609)

All I got from this article is that once you add in the cost of the Surface's most notable feature, it costs $20 - $30 more than an equivalent iPad.

Except that it's no longer equivalent unless you add the same feature to the iPad which will cost at least $20-$30 for comparable quality?

But I thought the most notable feature of the tablet was that it runs MS Word/Excel/Powerpoint (it will cost your $30 to get equivalent software on the iPad) -- I don't know why you'd get the MS tablet if you weren't interested in running MS software.

Do we want...? (0)

ScaledLizard (1430209) | about 2 years ago | (#41694311)

... Microsoft's "embrace, extend, extinguish" in the mobile world?

Re:Do we want...? (1)

Jeng (926980) | about 2 years ago | (#41694441)

That all depends on whom they extinguish.

Good Grief (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694317)

Is this really useful? The author sure seems to have a fixed idea on who will win. Who has ever wanted to charge their phone with their iPad? Anyone? ever?
Also - he makes assertions " Some people will no doubt say that the Retina screen is worth the additional $115 you’re paying for an iPad, but I don’t think it will be the majority." This is supposed to be a comparison, not his opinion. He never bills this as "a comparison of my opinions on two devices" but as "a comparison of two devices." Some impartiality would be nice.

Re:Good Grief (1)

Sez Zero (586611) | about 2 years ago | (#41694599)

Who has ever wanted to charge their phone with their iPad? Anyone? ever?

Never. However, many times I've wanted the opposite. "Hey, this thing I rarely use for talking has plenty of battery left; how can I get it to charge this other thing I use for almost everything else?"

I too await a side-by-side, hands-on comparison. But I hope the multi-user feature becomes big so that it trickles over to my iPad.

Luls (1)

neminem (561346) | about 2 years ago | (#41694335)

Yep, everyone is going to buy a 40 dollar screen cover, and 30 dollars of Office apps.

Why round to $115? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694345)

Why does the author of this article round to $115? The difference between the prices he gives is less than $110. If he's rounding to find a nice whole number why not $110? Obviously he is a shill but why on earth would he prove it so clearly in the article? Just sayin...

Different keyboard covers; sales tax (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41694511)

The "Total Cost" difference in the third table is $108.97, but that's with the more expensive keyboard cover for the Surface. There's also a cheaper keyboard cover for $10 less; see the second table. Perhaps the rounding assumes that a lot of people will buy the cheaper keyboard cover. In addition, retail prices in the United States are generally quoted without sales tax. Assuming the more expensive keyboard cover and the 7% sales tax of my home state, the $108.97 price difference becomes $116.60.

Re:Why round to $115? (1)

Jeng (926980) | about 2 years ago | (#41694557)

Shills are paid to put out specific information and specific phrases.

He got his paycheck, that is all he is concerned about.

Joke article (5, Insightful)

Morpork (170585) | about 2 years ago | (#41694349)

That 'article' is a joke - of course Surface comes out on top - when 'reviewed' by the guy who wrote the book on Windows Phone 8.

It's also funny - I recall the exact same argument over quantity vs. quality of applications back in the 80's when Apple were the underdog. Seems like MS can't change their habit of... recycling other peoples' ideas.

I also especially like the sign-off... "It’s time for all of you, my faithful readers, to tell me why I’m wrong"... well, we might if there was ANY option to comment on the page.

So, why are Slashdot running this Surface ad under the guise of an article?

Ok but (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694361)

The comparison is interesting, but note the website that posted it; you can discount the biased comments as much as you want for Slashdot's role as the 'anti-Microsoft' tech news site.

Re:Ok but (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41694409)

When Slashdot is not fulfilling its role as the "anti-Apple" tech news site, of course.

Re:Ok but (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41694785)

When Slashdot is not fulfilling its role as the "anti-Apple" tech news site, of course.

Its not true, but if it was, it would be the only one. Apple has incredible media presence. Its extra ironic considering Android is not mentioned in the Title.

Blah, blah, keyboard, blah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694407)

I thought we were talking about tablets?

Multi-User (1)

bananaquackmoo (1204116) | about 2 years ago | (#41694447)

I hadn't even thought about the multiple user accounts aspect. For some reason its not being pointed out in the news much and I didn't realize the obvious on my own. I'm suddenly glad I read that article.

Re:Multi-User (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694903)

Which is odd, because it's one of the best selling points over existing tablet operating systems. Not being able to have multiple users on my Android tablet sucks.

LOLZ (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694483)


 

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Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694487)

From the article: "It’s time for all of you, my faithful readers, to tell me why I’m wrong. If you were shopping for your first tablet today, which one would you buy?"

I like that he finished with that line and then provided no way to comment on the article.

It's got Office and that's good enough for some (1, Interesting)

Aphrika (756248) | about 2 years ago | (#41694503)

Ok, so it's a slightly less featured version that the full x86 Office 2013, but if it means I don't have to fart around with reformatting at teh last minute in Keynote, Page and Numbers on an iPad, or any of the other feeble attempts at Office compatibility to do a presentation, then that's just fine by me. Sure I could take a laptop, but I get some good results by simply passing the tablet around.

10 years ago, people were paying £450 for a full Office software suite, so the idea of spending an equivalent amount for Office on a tablet isn't that much of a dealbreaker when you consider it.

Re:It's got Office and that's good enough for some (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41695011)

10 years ago, people were paying £450 for a full Office software suite, so the idea of spending an equivalent amount for Office on a tablet isn't that much of a dealbreaker when you consider it.

Except 10 years ago you couldn't get a usable office suite for free; Star Office was probably around but from what I remember it wasn't even close to what MS Office offered at the time.

Besides, that £450 office suite could actually be used for commercial purposes, unlike the 'free' one with Windows RT.

Re:It's got Office and that's good enough for some (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41695057)

10 years ago, people were paying £450 for a full Office software suite, so the idea of spending an equivalent amount for Office on a tablet isn't that much of a dealbreaker when you consider it.

Its not 10 years ago. In the modern world have a plethora of cheap and free on-line and off-line competent Office suites.

Re:It's got Office and that's good enough for some (4, Insightful)

Mononoke (88668) | about 2 years ago | (#41695125)

...if it means I don't have to fart around with reformatting at teh last minute in Keynote, Page and Numbers on an iPad, or any of the other feeble attempts at Office compatibility to do a presentation, then that's just fine by me.

Just wait until you try to open an Office document that uses a font outside the small subset of fonts included with the Surface. Hell, just opening a PPT on any laptop other than the one it was created on often requires last minute editing to get everything on the screen.

Don't be mean! (2)

YankDownUnder (872956) | about 2 years ago | (#41694547)

OMG - don't y'all know that car salesmen (er, people) (including USED car sales, er, people) are absolutely truthful, honest and sincere when selling you an automobile - or whatever it is you're buying...??? C'mon - don't ya reckon that both Microsoft and Apple are like, ya know, totally truthful, honest and sincere when pushing their products down our throats and have only ultimately, our best interests in mind? (Where's my meds)

People who buy Apple see prize as a bonus (0)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about 2 years ago | (#41694577)

You don't go to the Apple stand at your local retailer looking for a bargain, you want the perceived best and the perceived best carries a price but it is worth it. It is how Sony grew big, they were never the best or the cheapest but they had this image that for the price you got a decent piece of hardware and not some japanese crap like say Sharp. Yeah I know it doesn't make sense, people often don't.

Once price starts being used other then for reasoning that "if it costs this much, it must be good" you start competing with Samsung and Archos, the also ran display stand were all the devices are side by side with price the biggest print on the display cards. The devices are ordered by price and you go to the part of the stand that is in your range, then look towards the high end to see what you can't afford but want anyway since more expensive means better.

MS will be there, at the far end, with a logo people so far have shown zero attachement too. Of course, I know over a decade of abysmal Phone and indeed Tablet sales say nothing of the future. Haha, I just couldn't keep a straight face saying that.

The worst indication is that MS ordered only a couple of million of the device, launching just ahead of Christmas, clearly they themselves don't expect to be breaking any records.

All the perceived advantages listed in the rather ridiculous article HAVE BEEN THERE BEFORE. Every generation of MS Phone has had native office support etc etc. there have been full windows (not RT/Arm which won run any of the windows programs you use on your windows desktop) tablets and they DID NOT SELL.

Meanwhile, the Tablet with no windows compatibility at all, outsells everything and the largest PC maker sells PC's without windows. Could it be, horror of horror, that people don't NEED Windows? Nah... inconceivable.

Re:People who buy Apple see prize as a bonus (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | about 2 years ago | (#41695077)

the largest PC maker sells PC's without windows.

According to the Gartner report released on October 10, 2012 [gartner.com] (8 days ago), Lenovo ousted HP as the largest PC manufacturer in the world in Q3 2012. Lenovo sells PCs without Windows?

Is this Microsoft's attack on the App Store? (2, Insightful)

jbplou (732414) | about 2 years ago | (#41694595)

Is this Microsoft's attack on the App Store?

"When I hear about 600,000 apps, I’m just in awe. As I’ve said many times before, however, I don’t think it’s the right number for comparison. Nobody is using more than a couple dozen applications on their device."

Even If I don't count the many games and educational apps my kid use I still see many more than a couple dozen apps that I used in the last week on my ipad.

Also I don't think hooking a mouse to a tablet is a great feature for surface. It just shows me Microsoft doesn't know how people use tablets. Perhaps they should goto a coffee shop and look at all the people using there competitors tablets. the keyboard can make sense if you type large emails or even do word processing, but I would guess most don't use physical keyboards enough to need to purchase one.

People who buy a Surface for Office (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41694713)

the keyboard can make sense if you type large emails or even do word processing, but I would guess most don't use physical keyboards enough to need to purchase one.

This tablet includes a copy of Microsoft Office software. Microsoft apparently thinks people who buy it for Office will use a keyboard enough.

Re:People who buy a Surface for Office (1)

jbplou (732414) | about 2 years ago | (#41694901)

Having never seen one in person, I wonder how fast you can really type on those covers. If they will be as good as a traditional keyboard or the speed most people can get will be somewhere inbetween a normal keyboard and the virtual screen keyboards all tablets have.

32 GB != 32 GB (1)

Teckla (630646) | about 2 years ago | (#41694683)

The problem with comparing the 32 GB Surface to the 32 GB iPad is that you also need to factor in how much space Windows 8 RT takes compared to iOS. My understanding is that iOS takes considerably less space.

Also, some of us are not interested in Office.

In addition, some of us are not interested in beta testing a 1.0 product that costs, at a minimum, $500. Waiting until at least version 2.0 seems wise.

Plus, let's wait to see how Windows 8 RT performs in the real world. iPad performance is already a known quantity.

Re:32 GB != 32 GB (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41695097)

Good thing the Surface comes with Office, otherwise, the Microsoft app store might be empty.

Number of app's isn't important? (1)

diaz (816483) | about 2 years ago | (#41694685)

Ironic that he talks about how the number of app's in the app store isn't important, yet that was Microsoft's anti-Apple marketing line for years. He says, "I believe it’s far more important to have the “right” apps," which is what the Apple advocates have always said.

Commercial use licenses? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41694693)

The software that comes with surface isn't licensed for commercial use, so the numbers get all funky when you look at a commercial vs non-commercial user

MS still hasn't answered the main question (4, Insightful)

Tridus (79566) | about 2 years ago | (#41694807)

Why would I want to buy a Windows tablet?

That's it. If they can come up with a good answer for that, they'll be able to sell them. Thus far, they haven't been able to. "Windows" itself is a negative brand name that carries a ton of baggage from crapware infested poor quality OEM PCs, and not something that makes people feel good about buying. The market tolerates Windows because it doesn't have a choice, it doesn't love Windows.

Only problem is that in the tablet space, the market *does* have a choice. There's a clear leader, and it's not Windows. Why would I want Windows instead of the market leader? A lower resolution screen and Office are not exactly compelling selling features for home users.

"Screen Cover"? (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 2 years ago | (#41694827)

At first I was going to complain about people inherently discounting information because a source was biased. Useful information can still come from biased sources.

But then I read his comparison, and he threw in "screen cover" on the iPad (NOT the smart cover or case, a separate screen cover). I know no-one who has such a thing on an iPad. The screen itself is quite durable, there's no need for some kind of plastic overlay. It seems added only to drive up the cost.

I would have even said it was fair to add an iPad keyboard cover/case instead of a smart cover to make it a more direct comparison, but adding "screen cover" is really bogus.

Never mind, screen cover is smart cover (2)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 2 years ago | (#41694951)

Well that was a stupid post. I see now looking back he has a keyboard and a smart cover, I mistook the keyboard cost for a cover cost... the comparison seems fair (except for not comparing the 16GB model which has almost as much usable storage).

Comparison? Sure... (1)

ugen (93902) | about 2 years ago | (#41694865)

One is a popular device with millions of users and thousands of software titles. Another is essentially vaporware.
Let's wait till *each* proves itself in real world before making any other "comparisons".

Like the Zune... (1)

benjfowler (239527) | about 2 years ago | (#41694887)

Does it come in brown?

advertisement opportunity (1)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about 2 years ago | (#41694897)

Personally, I just want to see an MS advertisement where they drop the original Surface (the coffee table) on an iPad. Something like the old Bambi Meets Godzilla [youtube.com] clip. They can then morph it into the tablet version or something.

The Sham Wow guy narrate it, "iPad?!? Check out the Surface! Bam bitch! They stuffed an entire fucking table into this bitch right hear. You're gonna need two hands to hold this mutha fucka. Can somebody get a Sham Wow and sweep that other piece of shit off my set?"

That would make me buy one

subject (3, Interesting)

Legion303 (97901) | about 2 years ago | (#41694927)

"Ever wish you could charge your phone with your iPad?"

No. I can charge my phone with my Android tablet if it weren't the stupidest suggestion I've ever heard. But it is.

Confusing (1)

jovius (974690) | about 2 years ago | (#41694979)

TFA mixes Windows RT and 8 as if they were compatible, which they apparently aren't (http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/17/3514556/windows-8-vs-windows-rt-surface-confused-microsoft-store-employees).

So OSX is better than Windows? (1)

Princeofcups (150855) | about 2 years ago | (#41695037)

To quote the blog: "Another thing that gives the iPad a leg up is the application ecosystem that exists for iOS devices. When I hear about 600,000 apps, I’m just in awe. As I’ve said many times before, however, I don’t think it’s the right number for comparison. Nobody is using more than a couple dozen applications on their device. "

I guess the Microsoft argument that Macs can't compete against Windows because of the installed base of apps was wrong all along?

Multiuser... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41695069)

...as clueless as Microsoft has been with PC's as clueless they are with tablets: A tablet is a truly personal device just like an iPhone, you do not share your iPad so there are no need for multiuser functionality. We are 5 people in this household and we have 5 iPads and 4 iPhones.

How about compare storage footprint. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41695115)

Surface RT 32Gb - 20Gb user usable storage.

IPad 32Gb - 31Gb user usable storage.

Yeah, the OS counts against the device storage capacity....

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