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Salesforce.com's Benioff Disses Windows 8, Oracle

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the sounds-like-a-rap-battle-is-needed dept.

Businesses 182

An anonymous reader writes "Salesforce.com CEO Marc Benioff is the latest to predict Windows 8 will be a disaster for Microsoft, but for a different reason than some others: he says that Windows is simply irrelevant in the new era of cloud computing and bring-your-own-devices (BYOD), which will become clear to corporate IT decision makers when they confront the upgrade decision. Of course, this conveniently dovetails with Salesforce's market position, so consider the source. Another interesting development is the growing rivalry between Benioff and his old boss Larry Ellison; Salesforce.com is a longtime Oracle shop, but they have just announced intentions to hire 40-50 PostgreSQL developers."

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This is a message from the proletariat (1, Troll)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | about 2 years ago | (#41721235)

Greetings. Remember, we feed you all. Now carry on with your irrelevant blabberations on Slashdort. Soon we will rule.

Yeah well... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721243)

In addition to their cloudy-cloudness offerings, they've been anti-MS in other respects, directing some nastiness at microsofts old CRM solution.

Oddly, their doc merges only work right with IE, and they're usually about 3 versions behind on working Office plugins.

Not the finest development team on earth, in my opinion.

Re:Yeah well... (4, Interesting)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41721599)

I wish to back up your point here - my company uses several kludged together bits of crap that sit on salesforce. They regularly fall over and leave people SOL. Even the helpdesk runs off it, which usually means when the EMEA cluster goes bang, we can't take support calls. The only advantage being that a couple of years ago, everyone's holiday entitlement was wiped out, which was nice as we had to tell the company what it was :)

Re:Yeah well... (4, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | about 2 years ago | (#41722239)

The real elephant corpse stinkin' up the room though is while the whole "cloud everything" might work in the enterprise frankly its consumers NOT enterprise driving sales and the consumers are getting squeezed by the ISPs with ever higher prices and lower caps. The whole "Do everything in the cloud" idea was tried a decade ago and it bombed then and it'll bomb even worse now. Hell why do you think the ISPs were so willing to go along with the 6 strikes shit? Because it'll let them cherry pick their customers and only keep the ones that don't use a tenth of what they pay for, letting them oversubscribe that much worse without having to run any new lines!

As for Win 8? YOU know its shit, I know its shit, even my little old lady customers that tried out the Win 8 system i have sitting in the shop hated the damned thing. The #1 reaction by far I got to Win 8 at the shop was "Why would I want my computer to act like a cellphone?" because lets face it, that is what it is, its the bastard hybrid Frankenstein between WinPhone and Windows and frankly does neither role well. And honestly I think the whole "BYOD" thing is overhyped as those customers I have that are bringing their iPad to work are using it as a glorified netbook/notepad. They still have and use their laptops, they just carry the iPad for the basic mundane tasks that's all.

Saying the tablets are gonna kill the PC is like saying mopeds are gonna wipe out truck sales because the moped is so easy to park. Its two totally different use cases with VERY little overlap, the reason PC sales are down is simply because for the past several years both AMD and Intel have been selling monsters that are several times more powerful than what the user actually needs so people don't see the point of upgrading as often, that's all. ARM is at the point where the PC was in the mid 90s, where a unit from 2 years ago would struggle with the latest programs, no different than how that 700MHz P3 was quickly made obsolete thanks to the ever rising clocks and software designed to take advantage of it.

Mark my words but I think you'll see the exact same thing that happened to X86 happen to ARM very soon, only whereas X86 hit a thermal wall with ARM its gonna be the battery, even the ARM holdings group has been talking about having "dark silicon" because the battery would go dead so fast as to make the unit worthless if they turned on all the silicon. Mark my words when that happens other than the Apple fans for whom using last year's model is like wearing last year's fashions most will see no point in the constant replacing and will stick with what they have until it breaks. We are already seeing a race to the bottom just as we saw on the PC, with many talking about how dual core ARM tablets will be sub $80, maybe even sub $50, so its just a matter of time before ARM ends up just like X86, not replaced until the previous one croaks.

Re:Yeah well... (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41722551)

The PC is dying.

You may hate Metro ... modern, with a passion but there is some truth in it. AMD is about to go belly up in the coming months, MS profits are down 20%, Intel's fabrication plants are only at 50% capacity, sales of all PCs are diving.

The recession in Europe is hurting sales as many are keeping their pentium IV clunkers when you have unemployment as high as 20% in places like Spain and Italy! But a lot has to do with tablets. My parents are a classic example. They are not technical people. My father used to be an IT manager ... back in the 1980s but he has more experience managing IBM 370 Cobol projects and calls email, lotus CCmail still, and remembers Lotus 123 for Windows 3.1.

He loves his IPAD. What are his uses? Internet, and email. The IPAD is a much better platform as it is easier, more reliable, less prone to malware, has nifty features like a cam on both sides, and is super portable and cheap. Tablets cost less than laptops because of the Windows tax.

Windows 8 UI will hit some resistence at first. But I am warming up to it. Fanboy site Neowin showed modern so easy a 3 year old can use it [neowin.net]. Many older people still refuse to leave XP because they have change so much and will fight tooth and nail to leave IE 8 as well because it is what they know. Young people embrace and learn. You can use Windows 8 in the desktop and it is usable. Just different. If Windows 9 makes it easy for more than one tile on the screen, a task bar for Metro applets, a much more sane way to search for files with instant search that wont take up the stupid screen, then I may opt for a tablet with Windows 9 in 8 to 10 years when my Windows 7 desktop is on life support.

Why carry a tablet and a PC hairy? You can use just one device that is both and use Office and a web browser. Remember the people whining about Windows 95 and do you enable the program manager and file manager back? The young folks at time (us) embraced it while the older ones scoffed and didn't want to learn. I am not sold on Modern and will sit around and wait and see people's reaction. But I am open to relearn it if that is where the market is heading.

Re:Yeah well... (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41722581)

The cut and paste killed the link.

The link with the 3 year old [neowin.net] is here. Also Hairy your store deals with the less technological users. People under 30 know how to reinstall their OS and clean malware for the most part and can figure out Windows 8. THe over +50 grandmas probably just left AOL a few users ago and do not what a tab is when they open IE 8 or dragon assuming you install it.

Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (3, Interesting)

SpzToid (869795) | about 2 years ago | (#41721269)

And open-source is where business wants to invest, (even though business still wants to buy Real support).

Migrating away from Oracle to something like PostgreSQL is just being prudent while mitigating costs (and strategic risks).

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721449)

I don't know in what world are you living, but in DB world, Oracle still rules supreme if you require 99% availability. There is _nothing_ even close to Oracle in this particular scenario. (I don't like Oracle, it's a mess and everything is super expensive, but .. it works flawlessly. If you pay enough.)

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (3, Funny)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41721685)

I think you are confused. The only 99% uptime that Oracle gets are their lawyers, and the other 1% is spent upside down in their coffins.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721971)

if you want 99% availability you can use SQL Server, DB2 or Informix, with those you can get even 99,99% of availability very easily today even on commodity hardware.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (1)

jythie (914043) | about 2 years ago | (#41722053)

It all depends on your use case. We just migrated off Oracle because it suited our situation poorly. Oddly enough, excessive downtime was one of the reasons we switched off ^_^

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722143)

_nothing_ even close to Oracle

Google? Nope.
Facebook? Nope.
YouTube? Nope.
Skype? Nope.
Wikipedia? Nope.
Amazon? Nope.
Craigslist? Nope.
Ticketmaster? Nope.
Twitter? Nope.
Etsy? Nope.

Of course the list is miles long.

And btw, 99% uptime is pretty terrible. Even twitter is way above that nowadays.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (4, Interesting)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | about 2 years ago | (#41721455)

I think that's the real news: seems that Benioff wants to slowly move away from giving one of his biggest competitors giant wads of cash every year. That's going to be one hell of an adventure.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722211)

If the adventure fails it won't be Postgresql's fault; it's a dandy little program. They should welcome some gotchas in the migration, it will give the PG dev. folks some more targets.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (2)

PCM2 (4486) | about 2 years ago | (#41722439)

If the adventure fails it won't be Postgresql's fault; it's a dandy little program. They should welcome some gotchas in the migration, it will give the PG dev. folks some more targets.

Hell, with any luck, Salesforce's "huge PostgreSQL project" will involve contributing patches and code upstream to the main project. But I'm not sure I'm ready to bet on it. Salesforce has never given me the impression of being a company that really gives a shit about technology. Their conferences are all about "sell, sell, sell!" and "transform your business!" and other management bullshittery. Whenever they announce that they're launching some amazing new technology that's an industry first, it's usually something that a dozen other companies have been doing for years, the only difference being that Salesforce's version is stuck running on Salesforce. Salesforce employees, on the other hand, tend to be zombified Believers, not totally unlike Scientologists. I can't really see this company attracting any really high-quality open source devs.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (1)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | about 2 years ago | (#41722545)

Their conferences are all about "sell, sell, sell!" and "transform your business!" and other management bullshittery.

Well, to be fair, their software is all about how companies can do more "sell, sell, sell!"

But yes, Salesforce doesn't give a shit about technology. Which is why I consider this move away from Oracle a huge adventure: it's not something that Salesforce is used to doing, and will require them doing a rework of the internals of their entire core product offering.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (2)

Patch86 (1465427) | about 2 years ago | (#41721517)

And open-source is where business wants to invest,

If only. Most big businesses (in non-technical industries) still avoid open source like they would office furniture made of hemp. Or my employer does, anyway. If it doesn't come with an MS/IBM/Oracle/Apple/etc. sticker on it, procurement won't touch it.

I like your optimism, though.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721907)

And open-source is where business wants to invest,

If only. Most big businesses (in non-technical industries) still avoid open source like they would office furniture made of hemp. Or my employer does, anyway. If it doesn't come with an MS/IBM/Oracle/Apple/etc. sticker on it, procurement won't touch it.

I like your optimism, though.

My company sticks with big name proprietary only too. In exchange, we get unnecessary software, and nothing ever works properly. We will go bankrupt eventually, and no one will ever know why. At least we will make room for others.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721611)

And open-source is where business wants to invest, (even though business still wants to buy Real support).

Migrating away from Oracle to something like PostgreSQL is just being prudent while mitigating costs (and strategic risks).

For toy databases, maybe.

Got a few hundred terabytes? 99.9% required uptime? Whether you like it or not, you're talking to Oracle.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721781)

Got a few hundred terabytes? 99.9% required uptime? Whether you like it or not, you're talking to Oracle.

I would give up on my business altogether before talking to Oracle.

Re:Oracle is much less relevant than open-source. (2)

jythie (914043) | about 2 years ago | (#41722073)

Unless you want to go really high end, in which case you loop back ground to OSS.. at which point Oracle is for 'toy' databases with only a 'few hundred terabyes'.

Another moron CEO (2, Insightful)

Scutter (18425) | about 2 years ago | (#41721299)

Windows (and, by extension, desktop computing) is irrelevant because people have iPads. Seriously, this guy is completely out of touch. It may be great for the CEO who never has to do any real work with a computer, but an iPad is wholly unsuitable for anything other than Angry Birds and checking your Facebook. It's a media consumption device, not something used to create and manipulate spreadsheets. The fact that "Windows is irrelevant" because of "the cloud" speaks to his complete misunderstanding of the technology.

Re:Another moron CEO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721359)

This guy must from the 60's when it was touted that "programs will write themselves", "AI will soon make the world go round". Well it's actually been said ever since computer were invented. The fact is speech recognition is stagnant, AI is stagnant, databases are stagnant, etc. Oh they've made a few gains but not really. Yes everything has gotten bigger, faster, but no real strides have been made in decades. The "magic" this idiot thinks "just happens" is in fact written by millions of people around the world.

I agree on the angry birds comment. iPads should be treated like the addiction they are, not because they provide anything relevant or meaningful in the way of productivity. Productivity is the act of PRODUCING, not CONSUMING!

Re:Another moron CEO (2)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41721901)

Stagnant for decades?

In the 1990s relational databases had just grown powerful enough to take over from the CODASYL / Network databases which allowed for data abstraction and substantially cut development and maintenance costs.
In the 2000s relational database had just grown powerful enough to offer additional levels of abstraction: data warehousing and decision support was mostly non existent.
In the 2010s it appears we are moving to databases 4-5 orders of magnitude larger than those old CODASYL type. A revolution similar to what happened to accounting in the 1960s when computers first took over. This is data analysis which we never expected to have for hundreds of years.

Similarly in areas like networking.

Re:Another moron CEO (1)

jythie (914043) | about 2 years ago | (#41722093)

I would not say 'stagnent', but not moving at anywhere near the speed movies said they would. But in each of those fields I see slow steady progress.

Re:Another moron CEO (4, Interesting)

Psiren (6145) | about 2 years ago | (#41721369)

Agreed. I'm firmly of the opinion that widespread BYOD is a disaster in the making. You're still going to have to provide your staff with the tools and resources to do their daily work, but now you have to do that on any number of different and incompatible systems. Ignoring the potential security implications, supporting that in any meaningful way is going to be extremely hard. And you can be damn sure that laptops with Windows 8 will be one of those devices, so no, it's not irrelevant.

Re:Another moron CEO (3, Informative)

GIL_Dude (850471) | about 2 years ago | (#41721605)

You are absolutely right. In fact, supporting these myriad operating systems and configurations is going to be so hard (things like domain join, security, etc., not to mention versions of productivity software not working due to the plethora of conflicts), that IT isn't going to go in for the BYOD in the way people think. They will just punt and provide VDI sessions for people who BYOD - and that session will be all that is supported.

Re:Another moron CEO (3, Interesting)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about 2 years ago | (#41721739)

That stuff should be standard so the OS doesn't matter anyway. Why should I need a specific OS to join a domain? Even productivity software should be using open formats to avoid tying yourself to one bit of software. I realise the world generally doesn't work this way but BYOD device is more likely to bring that on than just sticking with what we had before.

Re:Another moron CEO (3, Informative)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41721919)

Why should I need a specific OS to join a domain?

Because "joining a doman" is an OS specific way of networking. By having domains a company has already said they don't want OS independent networking but rather what the advantages of an integrated stack of services.

Re:Another moron CEO (1)

Locutus (9039) | about 2 years ago | (#41722387)

yes, Microsoft fooled them all into thinking they had an open system when in fact they were slowly being tied to a single software platform, a single vendor and now to some extent a single hardware definition. Exactly what the entire PC market rallied against in the beginning. Unfortunately those tied into this Microsoft world see all these ways to enable new use cases and computing models as hardships and their only solution is to bring them all back into one Microsoft way via things like VDI. VDI should be the exception and not the rule.

LoB

Re:Another moron CEO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721705)

Which is why you have such things as Enterprise Integration patterns in order to connect seemingly incompatible systems, think Routers, Bridges, Translators, Messaging systems and SOA with UDDI.

1990 called and wants their "incompatible" and "unconnectable" systems back.

Re:Another moron CEO (3, Insightful)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41721753)

Ah yes where they replaced integration incompatibility with service contract versioning problems and monolithic broker based messaging instead!

I've been through both phases as a solution architect - same turd rolled in different glitter.

Re:Another moron CEO (1)

jythie (914043) | about 2 years ago | (#41722109)

Which were only able to integrate with themselves and the narrow set of things they set it up for... quickly leading to 'well, we are running X, and it supports B and C, but you are using A which only works with Y and Z'..

Re:Another moron CEO (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41721935)

It is unsupportable. There isn't going to be meaningful support. When Microsoft first moved into the enterprise with the Windows for Workgroups. IT didn't concern itself with desktops, they worked on the mainframe system. It was only when crucial data began to be on the desktop applications that the company tasked IT, and BYOD disappeared.

Re:Another moron CEO (4, Insightful)

Austerity Empowers (669817) | about 2 years ago | (#41721373)

Agreed, unless Windows 8 was designed around tablets and Angry Birds rather than desktops and laptops. MS would never consider taking their (inexplicably) successful desktop OS and dumbing it down to work on devices where they have nearly 0% market share and have the status of has-been, or never-were. That'd be an unmitigated disaster, no company would be so foolish.

Re:Another moron CEO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721381)

I would imagine that iPads and tablets are useful to sales reps who work in the field. Also, he said that BYOD is what will kill Win8 not iPads. This includes anyone with a laptop running OSX, Linux, and Win7 or below.

Re:Another moron CEO (3, Insightful)

N3tRunner (164483) | about 2 years ago | (#41721777)

The idea of BYOD may kill Windows 10, but it's nowhere near the level of acceptance necessary to kill Windows 8. My business won't let *any* outside devices connect to their network for security reasons, and I suspect that they're not at all alone in that respect. Chained-down PCs running whatever the company's acceptable suite of apps may be are still the norm.

Re:Another moron CEO (4, Insightful)

Seeteufel (1736784) | about 2 years ago | (#41721383)

Look, in an enterprise environment you don't need Win8. There is absolutely no reason to upgrade and seriously, we are now operating system agnostics again. Macs do just fine. Linux Desktops will be also fine unless they are called Linux Desktops. Our operating system is now the browser.

Re:Another moron CEO (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721831)

Yes, our company went down this route, and what a load of bollocks it is.

I mean, Google docs is okay I guess, but why the fuck are things like strikethrough on the toolbar but not underline? Talk about epic usability fail, and that's before you consider the fact that sometimes it just breaks connection with Google's servers and just outright fucks up.

Even all that's ignoring the fact it's apps are missing a fuckton of everyday features from Office.

Besides, if the OS is now the browser where is my Visual Studio/NetBeans equivalent online? Why would I want a shitty web based equivalent of a terminal services client when I could just fire up a terminal services client?

Even at home web based games are still utter bollocks compared to install desktop games and web based media players still fail to let me access and manage my content in the way I want or offer the features I want. Even GMail well not too bad as web based mail clients go is a poor offering compared to Outlook where managing your mail and calendar is so so much quicker and easier.

Our operating system is now the browser... yeah, if you do nothing of any value whatsoever. Like the GP said, tablets are media consumption devices and nothing more, if that's all you do then sure you can chuck your desktop away, but if you want to do anything useful you better keep it around.

The idea that we've moved to a cloud based mobile world is a fucking joke, trust me. I work for a firm that's heavy on the mobile industry and I see so many daily fails because people have swallowed the bullshit, like the client that bought 100 iPads for their staff to use their new web based CMS with only to find the iPad has no support for the simple image upload functionality prevalent in web browsers - fixed in iOS6, shame their iPad 1s aren't getting iOS6 because Apple no longer support it.

There are some things I believe given time, and improvement mobile/cloud will replace over the next few years, but there are some things I think it will never replace, or at least, not in any near future. But now? cloud/mobile is like a big overhyped alpha test- a nice preview of what's coming, but nowhere near ready for prime time, the desktop has many years left until it is- and as I say, even then there are purposes for which it'll still be essential.

The only reason things like Salesforce have been succesful is because there was no decent quality competing desktop equivalent before it's creation. That isn't true with office software, games, development environments, and so on - good quality desktop software still blows web based and mobile software out the water right now. About the closest option I've seen for replacing any part of Office for example, is LucidChart as a replacement for Visio, and even that's not quite there yet.

Re:Another moron CEO (1)

Locutus (9039) | about 2 years ago | (#41722415)

Because developing software and playing games are what Benioff was talking about? I don't think so. So you mentioned fringe areas where the cloud isn't the answer. Microsoft and their Windows software business can not survive with just that market.

LoB

Re:Another moron CEO (0)

PCM2 (4486) | about 2 years ago | (#41722521)

The daily Microsoft shill still gets +1 Informative? Really?

I mean, Google docs is okay I guess, but why the fuck are things like strikethrough on the toolbar but not underline?

Why? Oh I don't know. Could it be because you're a fucking liar? In Google Docs, underline is right there on the toolbar or you can use Ctrl-U just like any word processor you've ever used since 1985. To get strikethrough, you either have to navigate to the Format pull-downs or press Alt-Shift-5.

Talk about epic usability fail, and that's before you consider the fact that sometimes it just breaks connection with Google's servers and just outright fucks up.

Why should Google be responsible for your crappy network? If your company is going to switch to cloud services, it should be sure its network doesn't fall down all the time.

Even all that's ignoring the fact it's apps are missing a fuckton of everyday features from Office.

Care to name any? I mean, it's obvious that Google Docs does not have all of the features that Office does, but Office is widely regarded to be rather bloated. Not everybody needs all of its features. So I was curious which "everyday" features you were missing.

Yadda yadda yadda, Visual Studio is the best, there's no replacement for Outlook or Visio, yadda yadda iOS is a much more terrible OS than Windows, yadda yadda, yay Microsoft, troll troll yadda yadda... There are so many of these posts on Slashdot these days that I'm surprised you guys still can't spot them.

Re:Another moron CEO (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41721953)

What enterprise do you work for? One without:

BI software that integrates with Excel
Exchange
Sharepoint for document management
No universal communications

etc...

Re:Another moron CEO (0)

Seeteufel (1736784) | about 2 years ago | (#41722007)

Come on, no one uses Sharepoint. BI software ist not based on Excel but based upon a real database feeded by an ERP solution. Everything else is toy stuff. In Europe it is corporate policy in many enterprises to get rid off Microsoft dependencies. Companies are not that passionate about Google dependencies.

Re:Another moron CEO (3, Informative)

besalope (1186101) | about 2 years ago | (#41722271)

On the contrary, the fortune 500 company I work at just migrated their entire intranet infrastructure over to a SharePoint 2010 cluster. When you have a need to be able to quickly deploy/manage department-level sites, you cannot beat SharePoint. While I personally hate the software, it is the equivalent to a Windows Domain for ease of management and configuration at an enterprise-level.

Re:Another moron CEO (3, Insightful)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | about 2 years ago | (#41721431)

Here's the reality: a lot of people don't need a full computer. Their corporate life is either spent consuming content, or it is spent talking to someone and jotting down some quick notes.

Yes, there are engineers who program and business analysts who create spreadsheets (although what excel is being used for is a whole other horror story....). But the majority of management, all of sales, and much of marketing and PR is focused on consuming content and creating small, simple chunks of content. iPads are perfect for that. I know (second-hand) how much work is done on iPad, because all that work consists of checking email, writing quick emails, and pulling content off of the corporate intranet. From that perspective, he is right. Is he overselling his case? He sure is - then again, every statement by competent CEOs should be assumed to be nothing but advocating for the company, regardless of the reality of the situation.

For me, windows 8 is going to flop because it's the wrong OS for the wrong device from the wrong company: the desktop needs a full UI designed for creating content, not just consuming content. It also has to be efficient in that process, and not give them an interface designed for consuming content on a 4 inch screen. Finally, Microsoft is not a device and services company, no matter how much Ballmer wants to believe that. It is a business software/services company with a consumer division grafted on top of it. It might want to refocus itself, before it loses even its business clout.

Re:Another moron CEO (2)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41721967)

Loses their business clout to whom? Who is even close to providing the range of services Microsoft provides?

As for the Windows 8 interface it is obnoxious for Win32 apps but does quite nicely for Metro application. And Metro is fine for creating content creation application. The change to Windows 8 just drives a change in hardware design that allows for a change in application design.

Re:Another moron CEO (3, Interesting)

Stone316 (629009) | about 2 years ago | (#41722157)

We have quite a few iPads at work... Along with Playbooks, iPhones, Android Phones, BB's, etc.

Playbooks are sitting on shelves and never used... I took one home for my daughter after it was on the shelf for 6 months and she barely uses it. So thats saying something. I never see people in meetings with their playbooks.. I do see the scattered person with their ipad. However, the vast majority still come to meetings with their laptops, even tho they have iPads. Myself included. Most of us also have keyboards for them which in my opinion makes them usable for "creating content".

I use my iPad for when i'm sitting around the house and when i'm on call. Its lighter and easier to carry around than my laptop and has a great battery life. I also use it when i'm at a conference to take notes, look things up, etc for the same reasons. If I want to get any real work done tho, I use my laptop/desktop.

I honestly don't see the take up with mobile devices even tho in reality (as you've said) most people don't need a full computer.

The Desktop still works (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722353)

Move the Win8 desktop tile to the upper left hand corner of the Start screen. Hit the Enter keyboard button from now on when restarting and the Startscreen shows up. You go direct to the desktop and can get your ass back to work instead of playing with the stupid tiles.

Re:Another moron CEO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721441)

Many mobile devices already have enough power for the average office user's needs, so rather than having a Windows workstation or laptop at work, in the near future you might just have a dock to attach your mobile device to, with external screen, keyboard and mouse there as well. Your data will be continuously synchronized to some (private) cloud. None of this requires anything with a Microsoft sticker on it.

Re:Another moron CEO (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721553)

Mobile devices like iPhones, iPads, and Androids are not just "media consumption devices", and in fact are enabling what is practically a golden era of user created content. That you don't see this does not mean it does not exist. People are doing everything from making their own movies to composing music and writing novels to photography and photo effects on mobile devices. The majority of youtube videos now created are made on mobile devices, and it scares "big content" that the little guy can now easily create content that was once the domain of people with deep pockets.

No, these are NOT just "consumption devices". They are allowing a new era of content creation, never mind a new era of social connectivity.

Windows increasingly IS irrelevant, no matter what you Microsoft apologists want to believe. Stick your head in the sand all you want: the sales numbers don't lie. The "traditional PC" sales fell 8% year over year last quarter, a trend that is predicted to accelerate over the next few years. Traditional PC companies are hurting as their profits are slashed by the popular shift to tablets and phones as replacements for what people used to do on PCs. People ARE shifting to mobile, no matter how you bleat about how that must not be happening. Sure, a few niche applications will remain PC-only, but for the majority of the market, a combnation of a phone and a tablet fills their needs much better than a finicky malware prone "beige box" PC.

Re:Another moron CEO (2)

PCM2 (4486) | about 2 years ago | (#41722553)

The majority of youtube videos now created are made on mobile devices

Awesome! I can't wait for the new YouTube Video category at next year's Oscars.

Stick your head in the sand all you want: the sales numbers don't lie. The "traditional PC" sales fell 8% year over year last quarter, a trend that is predicted to accelerate over the next few years.

News flash: Most Americans don't lease a new car every year anymore, either. It must be because they're using mopeds now instead of cars.

Re:Another moron CEO (2)

Greyfox (87712) | about 2 years ago | (#41721569)

Tablets are pretty much to the point where you can treat them like a small laptop. I see a lot of people at work plugging them into keyboards and doing just that. And while the tablet form factor may not be suitable for a number of business applications, smaller smart phones actually offer a number of potential niche areas that you might find surprising. For example, some years ago now, I worked for a company that specialized in connecting wireless bar code scanners to legacy inventory systems. They numbered General Electric and Glaxo-Welcome among their clients. The wireless bar code scanners we sold to go with the systems were around $1500 a pop, bulky and used their own embedded languages which were inevitably difficult to work with. The same thing could be done today with a less-expensive and more-capable Android smart phone, using a programming language everyone is familiar with. That may not be the sort of business use you envision, but it's well beyond just checking facebook and playing angry birds.

And really, if no one in his company ever creates a spreadsheet, they might end up blowing away all their competition anyway. I'm pretty sure that 1/4 of any big company is dead weight that manages to hang around by looking busy, and the tool of choice of those people is the spreadsheet! They might not be able to get the hang of looking busy and doing nothing on the iPad before they get caught up in the next round of layoffs!

Re:Another moron CEO (1)

fermion (181285) | about 2 years ago | (#41721983)

No, MS Windows is irrelevant because people have open standards. Take MS Windows 7. When I put a new USB in it installs a driver and a couple times wanted to reboot. I don't have this issue on my mac. External media, cameras, video, are usable immediately due to open standards. Most any printer can do basic work using a generic driver for PS or HPGL.

In addition to this we have open standard for contacts, email, pictures, web pages. An Apple or Android device is going to leverage those open standards to maximize productivity. MS has traditionally not leveraged those standards.

For the most part people don't care or know if something is OSS. They know if they have to pay for it. I bet a year ago people did not know that Google Maps had to be licensed and was closed. Most people don't know how much a MS WIndows or MS office licensee cost because those costs are hidden. It is often a free part of cheap computer or something gotten through work.

So, yes, given that people are going to bring Chromebooks and Galaxy Tabs and iPads to work, it is an issue if standards are not used. And don't think that MS legacy misbehavior is not an issue. I am still running some web apps that require IE. Telling a new prospective hire that they can't use their tablet is a not a great way to hire the best.

Re:Another moron CEO (1)

Locutus (9039) | about 2 years ago | (#41722023)

the only way I read any validity into what he said was in the context of also using remote computing. I know a few who got off the Microsoft Windows bandwagon and do just fine running virtual machines once in a while locally but do lots of their business work using remote connections into their Windows environments at the office. When BYOD means you have bluetooth input devices at the office or at home and these remote access mechanisms in place there's no need for a local Windows box.

Given the above scenario and the life expectancy of Windows 7, in 5+ years who thinks there won't be even more migrations away from Win32 tied apps to even more cloud based solutions? It does mean that there really would be little need for Windows 8.

Also remember, Microsoft forces their new OS on the retail channels( remember how Vista was forced when nobody wanted it? ) and likes to use those sales numbers showing how many shipped units of Windows X there was for the 1st and 2nd year on the market. Businesses don't buy these new releases so soon so those numbers were always mostly pre-loads at retail. Considering how much the Windows is slowing at the retail channels(notice how poorly OEMs are doing lately?) Microsoft is going to have to pull big numbers of shipped Windows 8 PCs out of their thin air. Not to mention it's not likely home buyers are going to swarm to Windows RT on tablets given they all are running Windows XP, Vista, or 7 now and already have Android or Apple products. I see them picking up a Windows RT device and going 'WTF is this, what else do you have?'.

And then there's the jumping on the Post-PC era bandwagon to help get the message across that things are changing and that's what cloud vendors call marketing.

LoB

Re:Another moron CEO (1)

jythie (914043) | about 2 years ago | (#41722103)

One would be far more effective in pointing out other people's lack of perspective if they were not caught in their own little box. There is more to 'work' then spreadsheets and programming, and tablets can be useful too.

And the day the cloud goes down? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721315)

Where will he find the information he wanted? Not on his server. Remember, cloud? Not on your hardware. Cheaper for you to set-up and maintain. No control over where your data is, and some one else has easier access to your "encrypted" data, that takes the cake, a pot calling the kettle black. If he was smart, or less dumb, he would have back-ups of the cloud, so he could have everyones data, a super fast computer, to decript the data, make it his and ransome it back to the people who were so stupid as to put their only copy out there.

Re:And the day the cloud goes down? (1)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | about 2 years ago | (#41721443)

The real question is: is the service provider with whom you store your data more reliable than you or your IT team in providing stable data access? Everything else is just paranoia and habit.

Re:And the day the cloud goes down? (3, Insightful)

TheLink (130905) | about 2 years ago | (#41721577)

There's another factor if you're using cloud services for day-to-day operations - internet connectivity uptime.

The cloud service provider could be up, but if your internet connection is down you can't use the services.

In many countries the internet connectivity uptime is worse than internal server uptime when managed by a not too crappy IT team.

It's fine if the cloud services are for public facing operations - in which case the public user's internet connectivity is usually not your problem, they don't blame you if their connection is down.

Re:And the day the cloud goes down? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722267)

Not to worry! Soon there will be pico-clouds, letting you run cloud software on your local computer!

Re:And the day the cloud goes down? (3, Informative)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41721585)

From experience (I used to work for a well known SaaS provider but left when I saw what an absolute state it was all in), the teenager who lives next door to you and plays WoW on his infested laptop is less likely to fuck up then an average SaaS provider. As per any business, their objective is to maximise profit and to do this, they take seriously big risks and hope the hell the string and sticky tape doesn't go snap. When it does, you have no recourse as there are contracts to protect the profit-mongering. Using a "service provider" as you call them is akin to shutting your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears and taking a whiz.

If you do your own IT in house, you have control over the standards and where your standards are implemented.

Re:And the day the cloud goes down? (2)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | about 2 years ago | (#41722507)

To put out a counter-point out: I've worked for two SaaS providers, and one where I had direct access to both our internal and the customer application and network information. The vast majority of cases, the issue was with the customer's network and application. In fact, at the first company, our service went down twice: when some moron dug up a fiber cable in Germany, and once when the company running our main data center decided to fuck up their routing table. At the second company, we had one major outage (more than a few hours) when some moron decided to propagate a network change without going through the proper approval process.

Is there spit and duct tape involved? Sure. Then again - that's not the real question. It's whether there's more duct tape and spit in your own organization or not.

From the numbers I saw, overall availability is hanging out 99.9% combined. Now, my laptops, both personal and professional, have already suffered more downtime - whether it is upgrades taking them down, maintenance requiring some amount of trouble-shooting and investigation (damn you Java).

If you do your own IT, you're also stuck with what resources you have. Most companies I know don't prioritize IT. Most people don't prioritize IT. For those, it makes sense to not have everything be in-house. That said, the mantra that you SHOULD put everything onto some outside server is nonsense. Even more so if they tell you that you don't need backups or local copies. If anyone ever tells you that, run screaming in the other direction.

Re:And the day the cloud goes down? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721633)

The Cloud won't go down, that's the beauty of this whole plan. The person running The Cloud will just put their data on The Cloud, so it will be self-perpetuating. But what about catastrophic hardware failure scenarios at his "The Cloud" datacenters? There won't BE any datacenters, you fool, the engineers will BYOD which will communicate with The Cloud without the need for LAN's or WAN's by using wireless 4G.

It's Brilliant! It's The Cloud.

(Seriously, read the article. This guy is smoking crack.)

narrow minded fools (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721321)

My android tab won't run solidworks. How am I supposed to do complex 3d design on a mobile device?

The problem with pronouncements like this is that the people who make them only understand computing within their own business domain. They conclude that because workers in their sector can work with portable devices from the cloud, everyone else can do the same.

Re:narrow minded fools (2)

lennier1 (264730) | about 2 years ago | (#41721371)

^^ I yet have to see a tablet that can keep up with twin octocores and a set of Quadros. Then again, that's technology that's used for real work.

Re:narrow minded fools (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721459)

^^ I yet have to see a tablet that can keep up with twin octocores and a set of Quadros. Then again, that's technology that's used for real work.

I have yet to see where Salesforce requires twin octocores and a set of Quadros, so from his (limited) perspective, his product will work just fine on a tablet.

And as your sales staff will be quick to remind you, it takes sales to create "real work"...all parts and pieces of the same corporate puzzle.

Re:narrow minded fools (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721929)

Sorry, but sales is a one time event. It's the support team/engineers/subcontractors/employees that create "real work" and keep said work. They are the people that keep the customer happy. They are the people that work with the true "customer". Once again the customer is the employees at the other company that need the people at your company that provide the service you are trying to sell. They don't need you. A salesman can only keep the CEO/big cheese happy with wining/dining/golf/gifts. A one time event. It doesn't take sales to create "real work". That work is self perpetuating after your one time event if you sold the product truthfully in the first place and if you even needed to do the selling. Your products and services will sell themselves, or at least they should. That said, word of mouth amongst companies is far greater than anything you can pitch. If you are known for crap products/services, sales will never be able to make up for it, at least not in the long term. Sales should be about taking customers away from someone else because of the people that do the "real work", not because you can spend more on a potential client. Lose the ego, you'll go further.

Re:narrow minded fools (1)

PCM2 (4486) | about 2 years ago | (#41722565)

Sorry, but sales is a one time event. It's the support team/engineers/subcontractors/employees that create "real work" and keep said work.

GP's point is that Marc Benioff doesn't sell software for those people, so why should he care?

man... feels like christmas (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721337)

spammers going to federal prison, microsoft irrelevant, rightraven screwed... what a fucking cool day in the industry. and it's before 10:00am. WOW.

regulatory hurdles (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721387)

Until Apple, and Google, or any other alternative device manufacturer actually understands the regulatory environment that all business operates under (and I do mean under), a traditional desktop/laptop experience, even if it is delivered virtually via something like Citrix, will be a requirement. Furthermore, the complete failure of Apple to understand the need to manage assets centrally, without Apple's interference, will keep them in the toy realm. No real business gets done on the iPad, regardless of what you fanbois believe.

Re:regulatory hurdles (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 2 years ago | (#41721429)

Apple completely understands managing resources centrally, they just choose to interpret it as under *their* control.

Win 8 GUI is suffocating (3, Interesting)

aNonnyMouseCowered (2693969) | about 2 years ago | (#41721413)

More than the absence of the Start button, the Win 8 GUI will suffer from its lack of visual breathing space. Yeah, there's still apparently a nice selection of wallpapers, better than the default you'd get with the OSx, but the Start screen itself suffocates you with its billboard-like tiles.

Win XP had this refreshing image of a rolling green field beneath a blue skiy, the promise of a weekend escape into the country. Now the same office worker looking at the Win 8 start screen will see nothing but the loud artificial colors of the city. Is it that why MS had called it The Metro? Because it resembled those gaudy billboards at a subway station competing for the rush-hour commuter's fleeting attention?

Re:Win 8 GUI is suffocating (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721683)

Is it that why MS had called it The Metro?

No, they call it that because just flat out saying "That's fucking gay" might offend some people.

Re:Win 8 GUI is suffocating (2)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41721727)

This is the typical opinion here I know, but it's all like the doomsayer with the board that reads "the end of the world is nigh" just because it's different. You do a disservice to everyone.

For those of us who have actually used Windows 8 for a bit (i.e. installed it rather than watched someone whinge about it on youtube), you will find a "singularity moment" where you go "holy shit I get this now". It's somewhere between when you're listening to a piece of music you flick open the charms bar and sent it straight to your TV (and it actually fucking works without editing a single config file!) and when it tells you your appointment on the start screen (that you entered on your phone about a minute before) without something modal poking you in the eyeball from the system tray or dredging through a folder of "sync conflicts" trying to find out what happened.

Sorry but it does work, it works wonderfully and is a beautiful thing. If you give it a chance that is...

-1 paid chill (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722123)

You'll have to conceal yourself better if you want to convince anybody.

Re:-1 paid chill (1)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41722285)

Certainly not a shill. I mean you could be a paid shill from apple couldn't you? I just rather like it because for once they managed to make windows work properly. I've been plagued for years with shit that doesn't work from Microsoft. This just ain't one of those things, which to be honest surprises the crap out of me. CP was a turd but RTM with the recent app updates is spot on. Bear in mind I'm running it on proper kit (Sony 22" AIO touch screen).

Re:Win 8 GUI is suffocating (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722413)

you flick open the charms bar

That sounds awesome, I'll be sure to check it out next time I'm in a Harry Potter story.

Windows 9 (5, Insightful)

Tony Isaac (1301187) | about 2 years ago | (#41721425)

What Mr. Benioff is forgetting is that Windows 8 is a throw-away version of Windows. Big business is too busy moving to Windows 7 from XP right now, they were going to skip Windows 8 no matter how good or bad it was! Microsoft has a long history of playing catch-up, and then overtaking the competition long after the competition thought they had the game sewed up. Windows 8 may be a colossal dud, but don't count Microsoft out yet.

Re:Windows 9 (1)

modmans2ndcoming (929661) | about 2 years ago | (#41721483)

It will be a dud like Vista...oh wait...Vista was a commercial success...I forgot.

Re:Windows 9 (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41722629)

Then why did it never cross XPs marketshare? MS counted all new pc sales as Vista marketshare even though most just wiped it and put XP on it. Corporations for example make up 50% of the pc market.

Re:Windows 9 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722015)

Windows 8 is a superset of Windows 7 (all the Metro stuff and the cloud support) but a lot more optimized version (faster, more secure, modular, more services, etc.). If entreprise can move to 7 then can move to 8, the only difference is the change from the start button to a start full screen.

Re:Windows 9 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722201)

Microsoft has a long history of playing catch-up, and then overtaking the competition long after the competition thought they had the game sewed up. Windows 8 may be a colossal dud, but don't count Microsoft out yet.

So Microsoft is going to "overtake" the web? ra-ra go team!

It's not the CTO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721433)

Sounds like the CTO convinced the CEO to not spend any money developing and testing specifically for Windows 8, and that they should put those resources into optimizing the database backend. Makes sense when you're a no-software business.
 
Even if you're a long-time Oracle shop doesn't mean you're exclusive. I would expect a Microsoft shop to know how to use more than Microsoft tools and install Enterprise-class Linux in HyperV.

All within certain predictions (1)

erroneus (253617) | about 2 years ago | (#41721437)

It has been a long time in evolving this way, but I think it is finally arriving to that point.

The days of the PC are coming to an end. The PC itself will still be around, of course, but it will be relegated to what is should have always been -- a data and service access device.

The thing is that Microsoft really seized into an opportunity by making itself the one main OS. We all watched as Microsoft built its Windows into what we see today. Protocol standards being embraced and extrended all over. The protocols only Windows used being adapted into standards and implemented under Linux. Document formats... most of us have witnessed the unfolding.

But with the web and the push for standards, even Microsoft could not hold off the inevitability. Microsoft wants badly to own and control the standards platforms everyone operates from, but they are developing faster than Microsoft can maintain while at the same time maintain its core products and services.

Microsoft is still very entrenched and they are still playing their strategies hard and will slow the downhill slide as people and business begin to favor and demand support for devices which are not PCs running MS Windows. All Microsoft phones and tablet efforts so far have been rejected and determined to be a failure and all predictions say this will not change. Microsoft is unable to leverage its PC monopoly to grow into other markets as people are generally untrusting of anything with Microsoft on the labels of handhelds and other devices... and if they tried, they will no doubt find themselves back in court.

I find it difficult to imagine anything other than Microsoft shrinking down to its core and waiting for its next opportunity or simply being killed off by the next thing... the next thing which hasn't come around just yet, but it's not hard to imagine some form of Android stepping in.

Re:All within certain predictions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721769)

None of what you said has anything to do with the article.

This guy is not saying that BYOD will kill anything, he's saying that because of the difficulty of moving to Win8, many shops will actually have a good chance to sit down and consider going with a different platform and IT approach from the ground up. Some shops will buy this guy's "The Cloud" snakeoil, move to BYOD, and find out the hard way that no, 4G will not really eliminate LAN's and WAN's like he claims in the article. Most will not, choosing to either move to Win7 and try to get by in the hopes Win9 comes along in time, or jump to Linux (or other alternatives) and be free from their current vendor lock-in environment.

But to address your post, if Win8 has a chance of really succeeding on any platform, it'll be tablets not workstations. Which kind of shoots your entire argument out of the water if we assume you're right and people move towards mobile devices and abandon workstations.

Re:All within certain predictions (1)

erroneus (253617) | about 2 years ago | (#41721821)

My argument is that Windows 8, if it can success on tablets and phones, will never stand a chance. The public has already rejected those things due, in large part, to Microsoft's inability to commit to a platform other than PCs running on Intel chips.

EVERY Windows phone has been a failure. EVERY Windows handheld device has been a failure. The market shows very little interest in these devices and "compatibility with PC applications" is pretty low on the public's mind. If Windows8's best hope is in Mobile devices, you might as well start writing your eulogy now.

All hail the new pay as you breathe model (4, Interesting)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41721461)

Salesforce don't like the whole pay for it once and keep it model. They like the pay once a month (SaaS) model. They are also pretty shitty at giving data back when you want it. You can have it but it's a bastard to get it out.

BYOD + Salesforce is a wet dream for them which is why they're spinning it like this.

Unfortunately, a blanket statement here: It's just a 100% fucking retarded model that needs to go to hell.

You no longer have control over your data (lock in, data protection, availability, regulatory requirements).

You can't access it reliably *all of the time* (network issues, "cloud" outages).

You don't always know where your data is (Data protection issues).

You purchase purely a portal device rather than a general purpose computer (control, availability).

Your support sucks (availability).

At the end of the day, your cost cutting results in loss of your data, poor availability, data protection issues and legal exposure. Also do you want your clap-infested users' devices plugged into your network, authenticating against your web applications? Are you sure your business can handle all that?

I'd take Windows 8 (not RT) with local storage over the above any day and put it in a corporate environment. Hell, I'd even buy an Oracle license over it.

Re:All hail the new pay as you breathe model (1)

hutsell (1228828) | about 2 years ago | (#41721755)

Salesforce don't like the whole pay for it once and keep it model. They like the pay once a month (SaaS) model. They are also pretty shitty at giving data back when you want it. You can have it but it's a bastard to get it out. [...]

The so called Cloud could be useful, if the technology doesn't abuse the internet with an all or nothing mindset. However, since it's the business world's gold rush drooling dream of revenue streams to end all revenue streams, another "pay as you breathe model" worth mentioning is the time share [youtube.com] .

Everyone in other places outside the office could have access to a computer; a mainframe with their dumb terminal. It's awesome--as the video will explains. (Warning. With all due respect to everyone from that era and putting nostalgia aside, this video is done in the classic dated laugh-out-loud old school style.)

Re:All hail the new pay as you breathe model (1)

jimicus (737525) | about 2 years ago | (#41721923)

Compared with an individual PC and a copy of Office, I'd agree that SaaS is a "pay as you breathe" model. But that's not where it becomes interesting.

Where it becomes interesting is if you're looking for industry-specific software. This quite often costs four or five figures for even a relatively small business and can come with annual maintenance costs that you pretty much have to pay whether you want to or not.

That's a lot of money to find once a year. But your customers don't pay in one big lump once a year. So paying a monthly fee - even if that monthly fee works out slightly dearer - often makes far more business sense.

Re:All hail the new pay as you breathe model (1)

mounthood (993037) | about 2 years ago | (#41722277)

Salesforce don't like the whole pay for it once and keep it model. They like the pay once a month (SaaS) model. They are also pretty shitty at giving data back when you want it. You can have it but it's a bastard to get it out.

Salesforce makes SQL access difficult (or impossible). They can switch to Postgres without changing their web platform and then open the DBs for reporting, read replication, and sell write access. SQL is still the power-tool of enterprise integration.

BYOD is a joke (0)

lucm (889690) | about 2 years ago | (#41721509)

For years analysts have scared the good IT folks with their prediction of BYOD. But the reality is that BYOD does not take off. It's in the "trend that never happened" category, along with VDI and generalized telecommute.

If Apple had any long-term vision, instead of raping its existing customer base with new adapters for an existing product line they would pony up the pocket change needed to buy RIM at the moment and they would get in the enterprise world by the front door, because the number of companies that move (and stick) to BYOD instead of having a standard device (or series of devices) is a drop in the bucket.

Anyways giving any kind of value to predictions from some dude at Salesforces.com is like asking people at Nokia where the mobile industry is going.

Re:BYOD is a joke (2)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41721999)

But the reality is that BYOD does not take off

BYOD did take off. In 2008 Macs were used in a tiny percentage of companies outside of artistic departments. Today something like 30% have to support Mac. In 2008 companies had RIM smartphones that were centrally purchased. Today they have iPhones and Android often bought with subsidy. In 2008 companies that had tablets had specialized ones. Today over 20% of all companies have to support iPad in a semi-official way.

As for Apple, Apple doesn't want to be an enterprise vendor. They don't want the business.

Re:BYOD is a joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722249)

At my company we're building our application delivery model to work from anywhere on any device. You could run on a tablet, phone, computer running any OS. Thanks to Citrix.

funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41721717)

im about to go buy a top end desktop cause i have use of it, a mobile device cant do what i want...and be upgradeable and a ton of other stuff....OH ya im hte guy that makes stuff and might make a buck , go on suckers keep buying....there crud lies

In the words of the great Bender... (1)

rebelwarlock (1319465) | about 2 years ago | (#41721741)

Who are you and why should I care?

The smartphone & tablet bubble (4, Insightful)

evilviper (135110) | about 2 years ago | (#41721851)

Enjoy the smartphone & tablet bubble while it lasts, but CYA because you never know when it'll come suddenly crashing down. Over night, Apple will go from the king of all companies, to one that is painfully obviously over-valued with stock prices in a decline that seems like it won't ever end. And analysts will rant on about how obvious it was that Apple's non-diversified monoculture was such a bad idea, and claim they said so, before.

That's not to say smartphones or tablets will be going away... just that there's room and money for everyone ONLY while the segment is expanding like crazy. As soon as that growth even slows, the crunch will be sudden and extremely painful, as companies fall daily, and all the hype that helped keep accelerating the bubble suddenly does a 180 and fuels the crash even more quickly. And let's not forget, that the guys left for dead during the bubble will be revered by the business community for their stable strategy that didn't jump headlong into the hype.

Of course there will be plenty of cheap hardware at fire-sale prices to play with, for quite a while. And soon, the world will be restored to a much more sane place, where the distortion of the previous bubble is forgotten, and some other bubble starts growing.

BYOD actually makes Windows relevant (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722017)

I find it humorous that Marc mentions BYOD making Microsoft irrelevant. This is not true...it only makes the end point device agnostic. Using a product such as Citrix Xendesktop makes it possible to remotely connect (WAN and/or LAN) to a WIndows 7 virtual desktop from any device. From the end point, this works for Linux, Windows, Mac, Chromebook, smartphones and tablets. So despite the additional choices on the end point, you would still be running Windows 7 desktops and Windows Servers to support the infrastructure.

takes time (1)

Vince6791 (2639183) | about 2 years ago | (#41722033)

I used windows 8 preview and basically same performance wise as windows 7, but I haven't tried out the RTM so now I really can't judge it. If you don't want to switch back and forth between the metroUI just install the start menu button for free. Only time will tell if windows 8 will be any useful on the Desktop. Vista was not that bad and a lot more stable than windows xp but you did have to disable some services to speed things up.

BYOD, oh good! (1)

Velex (120469) | about 2 years ago | (#41722115)

Oh good! BYOD! Does that mean that the user who's bringing her own device is now responsible for understanding how it works, and does that mean that she's responsible for taking care of her own crapware that she installs on her own device so she can learn 1 weird old trick instead of me?

It makes sense for sales reps (1)

Animats (122034) | about 2 years ago | (#41722361)

This makes sense for sales reps. Their job is to talk to people and convince them to buy. Maybe take the actual order. That doesn't require much input or local computing power, but it requires convenient access to catalog and customer data. This is a business application that maps well to small screen mobile devices.

CEO = X (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41722611)

All he's saying is, "It's the browser, stupid!"

Perhaps he just wants them all to understand that if Windows 8 turns out to be a disaster, his clientele will still be able to access their database, regardless of the any problems they might encounter with the 'updated' look & feel, functionality or hoop navigating that IT will have to do in order the deal with the arbitrary changes Microsoft determines their customers must endure.

A CEO's job includes promoting the interests of its company. I'm not sure why the Salesforce.com CEO thinks its in the best interest of the company he represents to disparage Microsoft just because it's apparent that access to Salesforce is independent of the OS. I'll wager that most of the people that make the decision to use Salesforce still use Windows at their desk.

I guess all the Salesforce employees use Linux, right?

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