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Microsoft Urges Businesses To Get Off XP

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the not-support-vs-not-run-on dept.

Microsoft 727

An anonymous reader writes "It's approximately 11 years since Windows XP was unveiled, and this week Microsoft was still at it trying to convince users that it's time to upgrade. A post on the Windows For Your Business Blog calls on businesses to start XP migrations now. Microsoft cites the main reason as being that support for XP ends in April 2014, and 'most new hardware options will likely not support the Windows XP operating system.' If you run Windows Vista, Microsoft argues that it's time to 'start planning' the move to Windows 8. As this article points out, it's not uncommon to hear about people still running XP at work."

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Farewell XP (0, Flamebait)

DogHuge (2758249) | about 2 years ago | (#41729055)

Farewell XP. You did good. For all these years XP has been one of the most successful products of Microsoft's family. This can be seen by its huge market share and general popularity. However it's time to update to Windows 8!

On that note, I think it would be good to say goodbyes to Windows Vista too. Windows 7 and 8 are truly better and the only OS we currently need, on top of Mac OS X. That trio is something beautiful and hard for anyone to break.

Re:Farewell XP (4, Insightful)

JonJ (907502) | about 2 years ago | (#41729241)

On that note, I think it would be good to say goodbyes to Windows Vista too. Windows 7 and 8 are truly better and the only OS we currently need, on top of Mac OS X. That trio is something beautiful and hard for anyone to break.

Yes, let's all celebrate a duopoly of walled gardens. That'll be grand.

Re:Farewell XP (1)

Rob the Bold (788862) | about 2 years ago | (#41729433)

On that note, I think it would be good to say goodbyes to Windows Vista too. Windows 7 and 8 are truly better and the only OS we currently need, on top of Mac OS X. That trio is something beautiful and hard for anyone to break.

Yes, let's all celebrate a duopoly of walled gardens. That'll be grand.

I don't have/use the Windows 8 or the latest Mac OS, do Microsoft and Apple have an application approval requirement now, a la iOS? That would certainly keep businesses that rely on home-grown software away.

Re:Farewell XP (1)

Mitchell314 (1576581) | about 2 years ago | (#41729243)

I agree. Especially Windows 7, it's fantastic. If Microsoft keeps up the good work, they'll eventually catch up to being even more that a dust mite on Linux's boots. :P

Re:Farewell XP (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729279)

Farewell XP. You were the bestest and most perfectest OS in history, but Windows 8 is even bestester and more perfecter than anything ever made in the whole wide world EVER!!1!!1! I know this because Windows 8 is just so good and awesome that it broke out of Microsoft and I saw it and it's awesomer than XP was. It's time to update to Windows 8!

And the same minute the article was posted, too! What a strange coincidence! It's as if Microsoft is so behind the times that they haven't figured out we've been on to their shills for the past few years! But we know THAT'S impossible, given how awesome of an OS Windows 8 is, and that's so trendy and hip! That couldn't have been made by a company stuck 11 years in the past like that!

Re:Farewell XP (5, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#41729311)

Slashdot: Back in 2001. XP is horrible it looks like it was made by phisher price....
Back in 2002-2004 we giggled in glee as malware like Code Red started to severely infect Windows XP
XP is still bad.
But Vista was a flop, it took way too long and offered too many issues. So we got use to it. Granted XP was better then ME or 98, but that was due to Microsoft Finally pushing the NT Kernel on consumer OS's.

XP long run was due to Microsoft Failing last decade.
Trying to Make Vista (Longhorn) a super mega OS, where they just couldn't do it, taking time away from smaller improvements.
Fighting with Apple iPod Halo, where people started to take Mac's seriously again. And Apple was quick to release new versions of it's OS.
Bad press from the FTC ruling. Yes they didn't get punished by the feds as much, but in terms of user perception it was got bad. People didn't use Microsoft Products because they wanted to but because they felt like they had to.
Firefox - Safari - Chrome: These web browsers kicked the butt on IE 6 and Developers took notice and started making their pages more Other browser friendly. Plus these other Browsers work just as well on other OS's. .NET made development too hard. (I actually like programming in .NET myself) but Microsoft sacrificed VB for it. Because VB was meant to be an easy to program language that any poor slob can code. .NET turned vb from a GUI scripting language to an OO language. Giving a huge learning curve to the Non-Developers programmers (Businessmen, Engineers, ... who wrote a program to fit their need) Yes it created higher quality code and saved us IT professionals form VB hell but if you needed to hire a real developer to make your software. That developer just may choose some more platform independent languages to do the work, even if they did use .NET they would have made more Web Based applications just so they can debug problems better, and have better contol of the software. Good for us, bad for MS.

Re:Farewell XP (1, Troll)

mcgrew (92797) | about 2 years ago | (#41729505)

However it's time to update to Windows 8!

It's raining here in Illinois, how's the weather there in Redmond? W8 is, from what I've read, NOT an upgrade in any way. If you're upgrading from XP, upgrade to W7. That is, if the hardware is powerful enough to run it.

I think it's borderline criminal to not support an OS until the last computer running it is in a landfill. If the engine in your '57 Chevy blows up, you can still get it repaired and replaced. If MS didn't write such buggy software, it wouldn't have to be supported. Security updates are only to fix the developer's fuckups. MS should be forced to support all the software they've been paid for that's still in use.

Pry XP from cold, stiff fingers (5, Insightful)

Dystopian Rebel (714995) | about 2 years ago | (#41729075)

XP is still common at work because

a) it is fast even on old hardware,

b) it is supported by at least one good, secure Web browser (hint: not MSIE),

c) it supports about 15 years worth of professional applications (some of which are not available anymore), and

d) upgrading == (pain + time) && (upgrading != c)

Re:Pry XP from cold, stiff fingers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729169)

(upgrading != c)

These are two different data types, so you would get unexpected behavior if it compiled at all.

Even if it did, a good compiler would throw a warning that upgrading will never == c.

Re:Pry XP from cold, stiff fingers (1)

MonsterTrimble (1205334) | about 2 years ago | (#41729291)


I agree (somewhat). I use XP on a Duo Core HP at work and it is pretty responsive however I attribute that to the horsepower under the hood rather than how light the body is. You can make a '57 Cadillac run the quarter mile in 10 seconds but it doesn't mean it's the same weight as a Civic. I have used XP on older hardware (circa 2008) and it's touch and go at times. Pre-2005? Forget it.

Another point is the upgrading portion. We are in the process of migrating to a new MRP system and our old system is the one which has required us to use XP (or virtualize XP on the new Win7 machines). It eventually will happen that staying costs more than moving forward. My only thought is how long will it be until the OS doesn't matter?

Re:Pry XP from cold, stiff fingers (0, Flamebait)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#41729379)

a) it is fast even on old hardware,
No it isn't. If you upgrade XP it runs slow. Slow Hardware runs slow.

b) it is supported by at least one good, secure Web browser (hint: not MSIE),
For business? Businesses use IE, and the smart people break the policy and install other Browsers. Business use IT, because there are still too many stupid companies who think Active X was a good idea.

c) it supports about 15 years worth of professional applications (some of which are not available anymore), and
If your application isn't available anymore. You are putting your company as risk.

d) upgrading == (pain + time) && (upgrading != c)
Lazy ass IT.

Re:Pry XP from cold, stiff fingers (4, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | about 2 years ago | (#41729435)

"No it isn't. If you upgrade XP it runs slow. Slow Hardware runs slow."

Clearly you've never "upgraded" from XP to Vista where hardware slow under XP switches to glacial mode. Also there is some older hardware that XP supports which Win7 does not.

Standards too high! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729553)

d) (upgrading != c)

c ?!?!?! If you want upgrading to be as fast as the speed of light, then your standards are way too high!

No uncommon to hear people runing XP at work (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729085)

.. really .. stop the presses

As a hardware shop writing/testing drivers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729087)

Shops like mine will be the very last to completely give up XP, because we cannot do it until ALL of our customers give it up.

Such is the pain of device drivers...

$500,00 equipment with WinXP (5, Informative)

vossman77 (300689) | about 2 years ago | (#41729109)

We have a few expensive microscopes with WinXP on the corresponding machine, an expired service contract and in reality cannot upgrade without buying a new microscope (an newer drivers), so what do you do, other than put it behind a firewall and hope for the best.

Re:$500,00 equipment with WinXP (5, Informative)

Eldragon (163969) | about 2 years ago | (#41729333)

A local library has the same problem. Checkout hardware has drives for XP and Win2k. The service contract to upgrade these machines is far beyond the available tech budget. So this particular library will be running off XP until the hardware dies and replacements can no longer be found; my guess would be another 10 years.

Re:$500,00 equipment with WinXP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729353)

Ok, even if no new hardware supports Windows XP, the existing hardware that you want me to upgrade does! I buy new hardware with Win7 on it; I'm skipping your Windowsw 9 Beta.

Re:$500,00 equipment with WinXP (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729369)

We're in a similar situation: we've got XP machines hooked up to 96-well plate readers, UV imaging boxes and fluorescent microscopes. They're all old but still perform fine, but if we upgraded to anything else we'd basically be looking at new machines because some of the vendors have gone under and those which haven't have new software packages which don't support our machines or don't have drivers for the old machines which play nice with W7/8.

As much as we'd like the new hardware, we're not going to upgrade tens of thousands of pounds worth of machinery just because MS are dropping support for XP.

Re:$500,00 equipment with WinXP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729413)

We have a microscope with a custom fiber counting machine built around it. This system prints out reports from parallel printers only and it runs only on windows 98. It's been running for something like 15 years and in this case I don't think that user will ever consider upgrading. It's these custom cases that don't really count though, this system is not network connected and nothing is ever connected to it other than the microscope and a printer. The systems I worry about are the ones that will still be running WinXp in 2015.

Re:$500,00 equipment with WinXP (1)

tibit (1762298) | about 2 years ago | (#41729483)

This could be probably made to work on a Linux host with almost any virtualization solution out there (KVM, VMware, VirtualBox) :)

Re:$500,00 equipment with WinXP (1)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | about 2 years ago | (#41729561)

You would still be running Windows XP on those VM guests.

Re:$500,00 equipment with WinXP (0)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#41729429)

Fire the lame ass manager who decided to let the contract expire.

Why is a microscope online in the first place? (0)

Viol8 (599362) | about 2 years ago | (#41729501)

"other than put it behind a firewall and hope for the best."

Sorry , why exactly is it connected to a network anyway? Do you surf the web on it when you're bored? When you're dealing with equipment that expensive you do NOT put it in harms way and that includes connecting it to a network. So you can't download the files from your desk. To bad - use a (virus checked) usb stick.

Seriously , what is it with people wanting to connect every bit of machinary up to a network no matter how inappropriate it is? How long before we hear yet another Power-company-hacked story or similar? And how long after before the lessons are forgotten again? 2 minutes?

Re:$500,00 equipment with WinXP (0)

Ryanrule (1657199) | about 2 years ago | (#41729535)

"expired service contract"


Re:$500,00 equipment with WinXP (1)

micheas (231635) | about 2 years ago | (#41729563)

Look into Upgrading to Linux?

While people compare Linux and Windows 7 and have strong reasons for supporting A over B or vice versa, it looks like this is your only upgrade path that I can see, especially, if you have enough microscopes that you might still have them in service in 10 years.

If you plan on keeping those microscopes running in 10 years you may well need to get them running on IPV6 which would be much easier on Linux than XP.

What I don't get is why you didn't start getting a plan together for when Microsoft said they were going to scrap XP. You knew that you either needed new Microscopes or to find something other than Windows to run them about four (five?) years before Microsoft EOLed XP.

I am sure that there is a lot of Windows centric software that is running on the computers attached to the microscopes, but XP support for that software is going to disappear over time as people migrate to the windows 8 version of the software.

Personally I would find a window that you could dual boot one of the microscopes into Linux and see if you couldn't come up with a solution over the next year or two.

Won't happen (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729113)

I work in a hospital setting where most, if not all, computers run XP. In radiology specifically, the PACS software we run is only certified for windows XP and ie 6.

Hospital doesn't want to invest money into upgrading pacs software.

Re:Won't happen (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729271)

I too work in Healthcare IT for hospitals and I will tell you that while I may agree that it probably won't happen , it absolutely should. I know of hospitals still running NT4. When security patches are no longer available for an OS such as the case with NT4, it becomes a major security risk. With the new laws such as HIPAA and HITECH, hospital IT staffs risk massive security breaches, lawsuits and fines if hospitals such as yours take that stance.

Re:Won't happen (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729299)

That's the pitfall of making an "appliance" (such as a medical device or a scientific instrument) run on a desktop OS that has a limited lifespan and a wide attack vector for exploits.

Hopefully IT departments are prepared to handle this.. Don't network the equipment unless absolutely necessary, and if it is necessary, put them on isolated VLANs that do not have access to the internet and have limited network access internally to limit vulnerability.

Re:Won't happen (1)

CFBMoo1 (157453) | about 2 years ago | (#41729319)

I think people noticed that hospitals don't want to invest in keeping equipment up to date. At least the virus guys did anyway.

Re:Won't happen (4, Interesting)

PlusFiveTroll (754249) | about 2 years ago | (#41729403)

I work in a hospital setting where most, if not all, computers run XP. In radiology specifically, the PACS software we run is only certified for windows XP and ie 6.

Hospital doesn't want to invest money into upgrading pacs software.

I do quite a bit of work in veterinary medicine and the costs associated with upgrading is pretty large. The scary part of a lot of this software isn't that it's certified to work on XP, it's that its so crappily written that it only works on XP with admin access and any number of bandaids to make it work. What I've done in a few cases is virtualized the XP box where it was possible. Trying to keep this stuff running over the long term is going to be fun.

Because it's not an investment. (1)

roman_mir (125474) | about 2 years ago | (#41729409)

Hospital doesn't want to invest money into upgrading pacs software.

- because it's not an investment if it doesn't have a return, it's a cost.

Hospital does not want to occur the unnecessary cost, that's the actual reason.

Re:Because it's not an investment. (1)

r1348 (2567295) | about 2 years ago | (#41729557)

The return is to keep your damn business rolling.
Those XP boxes will grind to a halt one day, and who will take the blame?

Re:Won't happen (2)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#41729443)

Upgrade your software and stop going with Siemens products.

Re:Won't happen (1)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about 2 years ago | (#41729473)

I work in a hospital setting where most, if not all, computers run XP. In radiology specifically, the PACS software we run is only certified for windows XP and ie 6.

Hospital doesn't want to invest money into upgrading pacs software.

Indeed. Upgrades like this are exactly why businesses will continue to use it well past 2014. I'm in the medical field too and there are still places running Windows NT for the same reasons. One hospital I dealt with was running 2K until just recently. They chose to skip Vista for obvious reasons plus the expense of upgrading 80,000 computers is not a simple or cheap task. This is also the case for manufacturing. I've talked to people who have $200K+ equipment that's attached to NT and 2K systems for control. It's crazy for a company, particularly a small one to have to drop half a million dollars every time Microsoft updates their OS. Granted, the companies that don't give a realistic upgrade path to their customers are also at fault.

I wish that Microsoft would have a home/standard version, similar to what they currently have. Except that they would not keep this version bogged down with legacy support as they tend to do. Then have a commercial version that can deal with all of the old crap that is needed. These types of users aren't interested in the latest greatest shiny features. Aero Glass looks pretty nice on a home users system, but it doen't do shit for someone using a computer to control a CNC machine.

Re:Won't happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729511)

I work in a hospital setting where most, if not all, computers run XP. In radiology specifically, the PACS software we run is only certified for windows XP and ie 6.

Hospital doesn't want to invest money into upgrading pacs software.

Do you work at Jersey Shore?

At my institute, it's still "popular" (5, Insightful)

blind biker (1066130) | about 2 years ago | (#41729115)

All our research and analysis software works fine with XP, all the office, design (CAE/CAD etc.), editors, image manipulation, diagram plotting etc. etc. etc. works fine. No fucking need to upgrade means no upgrade happens. I know, this is shocking to many people on the MS Windows upgrade treadmill, but sometimes, you know, common sense prevails.

I know, I know, awfully shocking.

Re:At my institute, it's still "popular" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729321)

Really? It's "common sense" to not upgrade an OS that will eventually stop receiving security updates?

Re:At my institute, it's still "popular" (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729517)

One more reason I like Linux. The thing is always set to maximize performance of the hardware, and its backwards compatible to 1991. Documents too. NOT.ONE.MICROSOFT.UPGRADE.HAS.BEEN.BACKWARDS.COMPATIBLE! Oh sure the new stuff can read the old stuff, but NEVER.EVER is the old stuff able to read the new stuff. NEVER! Its by design! *BUT* the marketing hoardes and shills and fanboidom cry out: "You haven't got this latest feature, this latest innovation that lets you assign paper clip numbers to the page so that you can itemize by paper clip number and page and and and someone somewhere might need that sometime and boy oh boy if you don't have it ...... don't come crying to us if you suddenly need it and, and .... so you should just upgrade right away. Just sign a cheque, and mail it and, and we will fill in the rest.

UE (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729121)

with all those pirated UE out there XP will live forever in third world

Figures... (4, Insightful)

RLU486983 (1792220) | about 2 years ago | (#41729129)

Micro$oft has an operating system that is running fairly stable and well and they want to axe it... puzzling!!

Puzzling? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729327)

I'm shocked to find marketing and advertising going on!

You do seem to have missed the bit about 'new' hardware not being supported by the next round of Trusted Computing and interface redesign. Wouldn't you really rather have a touchscreen w/ your driver and data combo, sir?

Coke (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729131)

In other news, Coca-Cola recommends consumers drink more soda pop.

Re:Coke (2)

arth1 (260657) | about 2 years ago | (#41729393)

In other news, Coca-Cola recommends consumers drink more soda pop.

Now, this is more akin to the Coca-Cola Company recommending that we all switch to New Coke(TM).

Will my 2004 computer still run it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729139)

I'm still running a computer from 2004 that came with XP and I see no advantage in Windows 7 that will cause me to switch, and quite a few disadvantages in Windows 8. Heck I'm still driving a car from 1997 and expect to get another decade out of it.

I'm migrating to Android one computer at a time, when this one dies, in maybe a few more years, it'll be the last Windows PC I have.

Secure boot is to migrate windows users. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729151)

This is the real reason MS is pushing trusted bootloaders and UEFI. They know the FOSS community can deal with it, their true motivation is so people cannot continue to run XP on new machines and will be forced to move that marketshare to windows 8.

Upgrading (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729155)

'most new hardware options will likely not support the Windows XP operating system.'

Not a problem! Most businesses stick with old hardware as well as old software. Even as a developer I have to use outdated equipment for my job, and it's frustrating compared to the monster I built at home. (You try running Visual Studio on a single 1.8GHz core with 2GB of ram, and I got one of the "better" dev machines!)

Windows 2000 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729157)

For most people in the enterprise, Windows 2000 is probably still good enough to get most work done. Especially since many apps are moving cloud-wards.

Don't listen! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729183)

If enough people stick with XP, then microsoft will extend the support duration again.

Solution (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729187)

Open source Windows XP, then nobody will use it. Its base will become a muddled mess of forks until it eventually fades into nothing.

Re:Solution (1)

dmbasso (1052166) | about 2 years ago | (#41729489)

What could really happen in this fantasy world: one stable distribution with only security fixes and minor improvements would estabilish itself, backed by a foundation. Several local business would trive, offering support and perhaps contributing with fixes and improvements. Money would not be funneled to one single company anymore, and the overall cost for everybody would be way lower.

We were thinking XP looks pretty good (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729191)

So good in fact, we might just upgrade some of our Win98 machines to XP.

Nicely done, PR. (4, Insightful)

HiGuys (689714) | about 2 years ago | (#41729201)

"...most new hardware options will likely not support the Windows XP operating system"

Alternately, Windows XP will not support new hardware, but that doesn't shift the blame now, does it?

Re:Nicely done, PR. (4, Insightful)

Drummergeek0 (1513771) | about 2 years ago | (#41729385)

How is this insightful?

It is on the burden of the hardware manufacturers to write drivers, not the OS developer. Especially for new hardware. How in any way does the blame fall on XP and Microsoft?

Re:Nicely done, PR. (3, Insightful)

arth1 (260657) | about 2 years ago | (#41729481)

How is this insightful?

It is on the burden of the hardware manufacturers to write drivers, not the OS developer. Especially for new hardware. How in any way does the blame fall on XP and Microsoft?

It is insightful because of Microsoft driver signing. A 3rd party can write as many drivers as he like, but if Microsoft won't sign them, and the customers have to jump through hoops to get them accepted by the system, it's not a viable option.

Re:Nicely done, PR. (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 years ago | (#41729545)

We'll see if they start playing any games with WHQL/driver signing. If they don't, it's the hardware vendors' problem. If it turns out that "Windows XP driver Exists" is an unofficial ticket to substantial additional delays in getting the WHQL signature for the Win7/Win8 driver... Well, that'll be a different story.

Well given that is isn't MS's job to write drivers (2)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 2 years ago | (#41729525)

No it really isn't MS's problem. Basically hardware vendors are responsible for driver support. They are welcome to support whatever OSes they like. Many vendors discontinue support for old OSes with new hardware. Since people with old OSes don't tend to get new hardware, they find it not worth their while to spend time working on it.

Same deal with software. For example Cakewalk has discontinued XP support with Sonar X2. Since it is nearing EOL, they don't feel it worth their while to test their new software on an old OS.

If you want a company that updates their OS forever, well good luck with that unless you are willing to pay a hefty service contract. Even then you will probably discover the updates will be little more than bug fixes, and if you want support for new hardware they'll require you to update to a new version.

Send us money! (5, Insightful)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | about 2 years ago | (#41729207)

Dear satisfied XP user,

We can't make any money if you insist on using Windows XP. Please upgrade to our new Windows 8. Since software developers also need money, you may notice that you'll have to replace the software that will not work in Windows 8.

While we're at it, the hardware vendors would love some of your money. Your old computer probably won't run Windows 8 anyway. So support our hardware partners. You can save yourself some time by just go ahead and buy the new Computer and it will come with a crippled version of Windows 8 that we'll be glad to upgrade for you at a reasonable cost.

We're happy that your computing needs are being satisfied with what you have, but we would be even happier if you send us money for our new OS.

Thanks for spending!

Re:Send us money! (2)

zippthorne (748122) | about 2 years ago | (#41729425)

Although you make a good point, the fact remains that they will never close all of the security issues in a software product as large as XP. The best we can ever hope for is for them to close as many as possible, and address newly discovered issues in a timely manner. They can only do this if they have a revenue stream of some kind - developers need to eat, you know.

The upgrade treadmill is how they handled this issue historically - putting out new versions and deprecating the old ones and using sales of new products to continue to fund fixes for the old version for a time. Obviously, they can't fund it forever this way unless people actually buy the new products, though.

How would you suggest they solve the funding dilemma?

Re:Send us money! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729567)

they will never close all of the security issues in a software product as large as XP.

So we should move to their brand-new bug-free OS!

Ya, how dare they only support an OS for 13 years! (3, Interesting)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 2 years ago | (#41729457)

Seriously trying to whine about MS requiring people to occasionally upgrade their OS is rather stupid. They support their OSes for quite a long time, 10 years is the standard support but some are extended (like XP). That is pretty damn good, rare you find other OSes with support that long.

So XP is now coming to an end of that support. You can upgrade to 7 or 8, which have guaranteed support until 2020 or 2023 respectively.

Oh, and Windows 8 works just fine on older hardware, as does Windows 7 (yes we've tested it at work).

Enough with the silliness.

Re:Ya, how dare they only support an OS for 13 yea (2)

0123456 (636235) | about 2 years ago | (#41729559)

Except the netbook I bought in 2010 came with XP. So it only gets four years' support.

Not that it matters since I wiped Windows and installed Linux instead, but XP was for sale until very recenlty; the only reason you can claim it was supported for a long time is because it was for sale for a long time, unlike the new compulsory-upgrade-every-two-years cycle.

Re:Send us money! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729477)

Dear bill the engineer,

What you say isn't true.

We are happy to pay for updates past EOL

EOL is simply a made up date by profit motivated leadership meanwhile our country is in a time of depression, and war

If you asked me, I'd call it a fascist commie fag move.

Re:Send us money! (1)

starfishsystems (834319) | about 2 years ago | (#41729495)

After training a whole generation of people to mistrust software upgrades because, defective by design, they just move the pain points around a little - after all that training, does Microsoft really think that people will want to move off XP?

This is called the Law of Karma.

Re:Send us money! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729519)

P.S. Alternatively, sign up for a contract and do away with the Microsoft Tax altogether. Microsoft Rent will change computing forever. We wont care if you upgrade or not as long as you keep paying us anyway.

Open-source XP (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729213)

We saw Vista, 7 and now 8 and each generation offers such awesome improvements over the previous... I dare Microsoft to open-source Windows XP on May 1st, 2014. I don't see it happen, but you may want to have a look at ReactOS [] . If you ask me, OpenXP would be a better name for it.

Still Running Here (1)

Bigbutt (65939) | about 2 years ago | (#41729231)

Well, in VirtualBox on my MacBook Pro. I need IE for access to some services and I can't seem to modify Outlook email groups using the Outlook for the Mac client plus there's one set of old hardware that requires a very specific version of Java for me to be able to get a console on the system.


Worth upgrading to Windows 7 (1)

Daetrin (576516) | about 2 years ago | (#41729237)

Windows 7 is a pretty decent OS, and you can make it look just like XP or earlier if you want. And hopefully by the time they stop supporting Windows 7 they'll have come out with something decent for Windows 9, or the PC will be totally irrelevant.

Microsoft is out of their mind... (0)

dtjohnson (102237) | about 2 years ago | (#41729247)

Sure it would be good for them if all of their customers immediately bought new licenses for whatever the latest version this case, 'windows 8.' But...but...but...for businesses those desktop computers are nothing but office equipment, just like the desks and chairs. Replacing 'old' office equipment with 'new' office equipment is expensive and creates major compatibility problems with software, user training, peripherals, support, etc. There is nothing in 'windows 8' which justifies the expense of conversion from Windows XP other than the threat of Microsoft to stop supporting XP and leave their customers adrift. If Microsoft's strategy for selling to corporate customers is to threaten them with pain if they don't migrate, it will certainly fail. Microsoft (or their successor) will need to eventually find ways to provide their corporate customers with what they want rather than trying to force them to accept what Microsoft wants.

Sure, this'll happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729267)

We live in a world where we still have to occasionally deal with users using IE6. This is not gonna happen anytime soon.

We transitioned people from XP->7 at my last company, and in many cases, it was like trying to pull teeth. At my current company, we're going through a slow transition which mostly is happening when people move offices, leave the company, or hardware dies and we tell them we can't put XP on a new machine (a lie, but whatever).

XP is going to be around a looooong time, whether M$ wants to support it or not.

Srsly? (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 years ago | (#41729283)

What kind of arm-twisting, exactly, is MS planning against Dell, HP, etc. to get them to stop shipping boring corporate boxes that don't support XP?

Yeah, sure, the odds of having XP run properly without a bit of scrounging on some random machine from Best Buy(this goes double if it's a laptop, triple if it's some wacky touch/hybrid/thing), aren't getting any better; but if your business is shipping pallet-loads of identical machines to assorted volume customers, you damn well better support the OSes they want supported. If you don't, the largely interchangeable shipper of near-identical machines will.

Even if MS plays serious hardball, and just starts refusing to WHQL sign XP drivers, XP doesn't force driver signing very hard, so IT shouldn't have much trouble with that. Now, I'd be totally unsurprised to learn that XP toasts the battery life of newer laptops with super-fancy power saving features, or requires that you turn on the 'legacy bios emulation' switch in whatever UEFI pit the system ships with; but I'd be shocked to see the end of the ability to buy XP boxes(through corporate and volume license channels, not necessarily at retail) before 2020...

Aren't they the ones...? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729289)

Isn't this the same company who urged businesses to get on XP?

Getting off of it might be a good idea, but you ought to think twice about the second half of their advice (switch to Windows 8) since it looks eerily the same as what Microsoft told you to do a decade ago.

Plenty of Time (0)

na1led (1030470) | about 2 years ago | (#41729297)

Considering Micro$oft will be supporting XP til 2014, that means Security Updates, Patches, IE updates, etc. As long as you have the hardware that still supports XP, and you have no special needs for things like HD Video, or new special hardware, you should be able to hang on for a couple more years. The OS usually dies when no new IE updates are available.

It's good enough, and Vista/7 just plain aren't (1)

Tomji (142759) | about 2 years ago | (#41729303)

much better.

I use both XP and 7, and had used Vista before. I use XP on most of my virtuals. I like just about 4 new features.

1.) Pin app to taskbar.
2.) Shift Right click "Copy as Path". (very easy to retrofit).
3.) The improved "Search Programs and Files".
4.) "Real" x64 support. (WinXP x64 is much more of a edited Windows 2003 build and finding drivers for it is hard).

In fact, XP had no feature whatsoever over Win2K, but it did offer some big improvements for the corporate side of things just as (much better) WMI and GPO.

Great advertisement (1)

ugen (93902) | about 2 years ago | (#41729317)

Time and experience are what proves products to be (or not to be) successful.

XP is successful by all accounts - it is relatively stable, productive, makes sense (more or less). The way to move users to a new system is to provide something those users *actually want*, without taking away things they already have. Simple, as soon as Microsoft does that - we'll all switch, voluntarily, and may be even give them some ca$h.

Personally, I won't move simply because I can't be sure binaries I build on Windows 7 will work on XP (yes, they "should" but I don't really care to try). That and XP had the last control panel that had some logic to the way things were laid out and grouped.

Dear Microsoft, (3, Interesting)

sootman (158191) | about 2 years ago | (#41729329)

Do you need a bigger hint that your OSs have become WORSE in recent years, not better?*

Keep that page as a template -- you'll be saying the same thing about Windows 7 in a decade if you continue in the direction you're going with Windows 8.

* yes, I know -- more stable, more secure. But the parts that people SEE and USE is what's sucking.

XP (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about 2 years ago | (#41729335)

Well, I like Win 7 because it has nice 64 bit support, something that XP never really managed well.

Otherwise I haven't seen any other particular benefit, and in fact a lot of pain associated the MS upgrade treadmill and their business model of churning the user base as fast as possible.

So yes they can sod off.

IF my computer dies, then I will upgrade. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729337)

I have told our IT dept that the machine I have had since 2008 is just fine for the work I do, and XP is fine too. So I have asked they keep their upgrades for me until 2014 when XP is no longer supported, unless my machine wakes up one morning and dies. We try to have a 3 year cycle, but I told them to skip me. I have even told them to keep Office 2007 and higher off it, since it is just a pain in the brain to try to figure out where they hid all the services. And the Ribbon is so foul that I want to live without it as long as possible.

So, I have become a Ludite, that formerly couldn't wait to get the next great thing. I used to be our company's Network Administator and came to hate "upgrades".

I do use Windows 7 at home on my personal machine and have acquired a likely for it.
Windows 8 though has nothing to attract me.

Just works (2, Insightful)

EmperorOfCanada (1332175) | about 2 years ago | (#41729351)

I have largely left Windows behind but I find that when relatives hand me their Windows box to fix that Windows XP is easier to set right. Just all those little things like the serial number having a much higher chance of working. I find (especially with Windows 7) that I put the correct version DVD in and it rejects the MS serial number that is glued to the box. Then it goes downhill from there.

Then if I have to install any corporate crap like Citrix that it has an inversely proportional ratio of functioning properly to version beyond XP.
Lastly I test my own stuff on Windows by either compiling the program occasionally on windows or running my web apps on IE in a VM. Again the XP VM tends to be speedy and small. Windows 7 tends to be cranky in a VM so even though I am just running it for a few minutes I find it less pleasant. This is not some kind of show stopper just an observation that Windows XP is not glaringly worse than Windows 7 for basic usage.

So I would not ever recommend that someone pull Windows 7 off their machine but that some corporate type with an Office full of XP machines running just fine doubtfully will reap much reward through a huge upgrade. Personally if I were in charge of an office full of XP machines I would organically just replace dead machines with a new machine running whatever newer OS came with it. Someone might complain that supporting multiple OS versions is a cost in and of itself but if supporting multiple OS versions is a cost then your IT structure is either really really big or your IT people really suck.

Why? (4, Interesting)

MyLongNickName (822545) | about 2 years ago | (#41729355)

My company has roughly 200 employees. From my perspective, I will plan to migrate off of our remaining XP machines (about 30) only because of security updates. In early 2014, I understand that security updates will cease, though I expect it will be extended. Were is not for this deadline by Microsoft, I wouldn't force the upgrade. In a corporate environment, the OS isn't terribly relevant, but the applications are. You'd be surprised how many application are still not ready for a native 64 bit environment, some niche programs that we rely on just won't work unless a 32 bit OS is emulated.

So, if Microsoft continued XP support indefinitely, I would never move. XP SP2 is the first OS Microsoft has offered that is solid and stable (just don't let users run as admin).

Let's see... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729357)

Spend lots of money on new hard ware, new software, re-creating old software, training staff on a new os, IT learning the kinks of a new system, and dealing with new problems and down time from an OS untested in my business environemnt; or buy repalcment parts for when current harware fails...hmmm

New and improved! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729365)

Because the new product is *always* better, especially when running on older hardware.

just rename windows 7 windows xp 2 (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729407)

just rename windows 7 windows xp 2 or windows xp the good edition.

Opportunity for Linux (4, Interesting)

gmuslera (3436) | about 2 years ago | (#41729411)

Even Microsoft is telling people to abandon the XP boat, Windows 8 seems to be Vista 2.0, and Windows 7 is looking like being a dead end (if you invest on it, will end pretty much like XP). If people must change and think that is not wise to go to Windows 7, well they could go to Linux, that share some of the possible objections of switching to windows 8 (training, not running some of their old apps) but having a lot of advantages (freedom, they could use their own hardware, the user interface could be more similar to WinXP than Win 8 is, safer, etc). And now native apps are less a concern, as most of usual apps work in the web.

Translation (0)

MitchDev (2526834) | about 2 years ago | (#41729415)

"We at Micro$oft need more money! Pay for our over-priced, bloated OS even though the one you have works fine and does what you want/need it to in the manner you like. You don't matter, only your money. To help force you to upgrade, we won;t release any more patches/fixes for XP, that seems to be the only way to make you upgrade."

Microsoft is stupid (3, Insightful)

bored (40072) | about 2 years ago | (#41729417)

I went to a brand new dentist office the other day. They were running XP on their brand new xray machines.

If Microsoft were smart, they would release an XP R2, they could call it "Windows for Business" and sell if for $150 a license.

If they were feeling generous they could remove the licensed RAM limits, give it a GPT boot option (heck they don't even have to do any work, just package it with some of the 3rd party options).

Pay for it, then. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729445)

How about giving up the copyrights, since you appear to be unable to make any money off the copyrights you hold on it.

Payback is a bitch, baby! (3, Interesting)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | about 2 years ago | (#41729447)

Oh, all those days they spent increasing the switching costs of their customers. How many Vice Presidents wrote in their annual review, "I did this clever thing to thwart our customers from Windows. Made lock in more secure. Now the vendor lock is stronger than ever!".

One trivial example: How many gaggled, "I introduced a space in all the important and default folder names. All those geeks trying to use cygwin to run shell scripts have to redo their scripts to quote their path names. ha! ha!! haa! Their support cost goes up. Our customer switching cost goes up. Our lock is getting stronger!"

And finally, they find their customers are unable to get out of XP to Win7!!!

Serves them right! Pay back is a bitch baby! You deserve it. All I got is that unspellable German word, schadenfreude or something.

Poor serial driver support (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729459)

I don't know why, but serial support sucks for Vista/7. I know, I know, everyone uses USB now, except in the industrial electronics industry, we don't. With few exceptions, every piece of software that has a serial interface to hardware has a terrible time with new operating systems. Between teaching hundreds of field grunts TCP/IP and Microsoft fixing serial drivers, I sure hope the latter happens. Does anyone else here have this problem? Any recommendations for solutions?

Support & New Hardware (1)

Hatta (162192) | about 2 years ago | (#41729461)

If you don't use Microsoft's support, and you don't plan on buying new hardware any time soon, there's no reason to switch.

Kinda like (2, Funny)

Sparticus789 (2625955) | about 2 years ago | (#41729463)

So it's like saying "Stop driving that 1965 VW Bug, you should upgrade to the brand new Pinto!"

Corporations going to Windows 8 on PC's? Dream on (1)

sasparillascott (1267058) | about 2 years ago | (#41729475)

Companies are very conservative when it comes to embracing Windows versions, for the most part, most big companies just didn't do Vista at all. Think large corporations will go to a small touch screen (phone and tablet) focused UI based version of Windows (where Metro applications are full screen only) just because Microsoft wants to sell phones and tablets? With all the associated costs there. Dream on Microsoft.

Microsoft should actually give their customers what they want, instead of trying to shove stuff down their throats cause they think their buyers have no choice. Microsoft why not just charge users $5 a year for further XP security updates...they'd make a ton of money as XP is still close to 45% of all the systems out there.

Why...just why? (1)

saveferrousoxide (2566033) | about 2 years ago | (#41729499)

Why Windows 8? Windows 7 is a worthy successor to XPSP2 or maybe even SP3. Its interface is roughly similar (in that you'd be able to fumble your way around) and its interface is actually designed with a desktop in mind. I don't get why MS hemorrhages R&D money rather than milking perfectly good cash cows.

<rant>Why M$ is so determined to force Windows 8 down everyone's throat when people are just starting to get used to 7 is just mind boggling (aside from the obvious, and perhaps only, reason of making more money). I think people would take MS more seriously if they treated their products with appropriate timelines. We don't need a new OS every two years. We (pronounced /I/) barely want a new IDE, DB, or Business Suite (Office) every 2-3 years, but at least those are giving the users new and cool stuff most times (though VS2012 is a little short on that).</rant>

The Best is the enemy of the Good (1)

GerryHattrick (1037764) | about 2 years ago | (#41729503)

Six PCs with licensed XP in this house which couldn't now run Win7. One more offline Libretto with 98 (kitchen, favourite game only) and one putrid netbook with extra memory and mysterious Win7. Several have Linux on Wubi for fun, but it's not much fun you know. XP is here to stay, whatever Microsoft prefers. Win8 is surely for laughs only.

Navy finally going to Win 7 (1)

jfdavis668 (1414919) | about 2 years ago | (#41729507)

We are finally transitioning to Windows 7 (and IE 8) in the US Navy. A lot of the delay was caused by people fighting tooth and nail not to change from XP. These are not tech savvy people, and they fight any change which may impact their work. As long as their system is working, they don't want anyone to touch it. I see the same with commercial companies. Leave well enough alone.

What must be said (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729509)

Can't believe nobody has said - what MUST be said.... FUCK YOU MICROSOFT!!

Yep, time to upgrade (not necessarily to Windows)! (1)

Dakiraun (1633747) | about 2 years ago | (#41729521)

I'm not surprised that a lot of folks are still on XP - at my university (where I work as a NOC network admin), the majority of the Windows machines are still XP. XP is simply what was put on older machines, and then a few years back with everyone hating Vista, new machines that had it were back-rev'd to XP Pro. Newer machines are mostly coming with Windows 7 Pro, however, a considerably number of people are installing alternate OSs on them alongside or to replace Windows 7. So far, exposure to Windows 8 has been 100% negative (the only time I ever recall seeing staff completely of the same opinion), so I don't see it ever catching on at all.

So yes... come April 2014, like or not, XP will be dead, and businesses will have to get off of it. They just don't necessarily have to stick with Windows for whatever they install instead.

They're late to the party on this one (1)

g051051 (71145) | about 2 years ago | (#41729549)

I've been telling people to get off of Windows XP since 2001!

Microsoft (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41729569)

Microsoft should get AIDS and then die in a fire at the AIDS clinic.

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