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Microsoft Prepares To Push Kinect Everywhere Windows Is

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the wave-your-hands-in-the-air-like-you-just-don't-care dept.

Input Devices 90

An anonymous reader writes "Technology Review has an update on Microsoft's effort to push Kinect gesture control technology beyond the Xbox console and make it a standard Windows computer accessory. Microsoft has sold Kinect for Windows hardware to developers since February and now products based on it are appearing, such as GestSure's system for surgeons in the operating room. Microsoft won't say when it will begin selling Kinect for Windows hardware directly to consumers, but seems poised to do so once enough developers have readied applications."

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90 comments

And Kinect for Windows 8 Phone (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41742981)

Just hold your phone out in front of you, and wave you other arm and legs to control. It's so simple, even a three year old can do it.

Re:And Kinect for Windows 8 Phone (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41744207)

You're holding it wrong.

Re:And Kinect for Windows 8 Phone (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41744529)

Apple doesn't run Windows. And you can't hold a Windows device and simultaneously look down on all other device users not holding the same device as you. Only Apple-ites can do that.

Re:And Kinect for Windows 8 Phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41750585)

Indeed. Apple patented smug assholery

Re:And Kinect for Windows 8 Phone (2)

tchall (1146319) | about a year ago | (#41744373)

Just hold your phone out in front of you, and wave you other arm and legs to control. It's so simple, even a three year old can do it.

ONLY a three year old could do it!(VBG)

Re:And Kinect for Windows 8 Phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41745115)

The phone doesn't have that ridiculous blue or purple ball at the top of it, or was that PS3?

Re:And Kinect for Windows 8 Phone (1)

RaceProUK (1137575) | about a year and a half ago | (#41750525)

You mean the ridiculous ball that allows PlayStation Move to use only one camera?

And yes, I know Move cannot do full body tracking. It wasn't designed to.

Based on the pricing for this kit so far... (1, Insightful)

Tomsk70 (984457) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743013)

....I don't really feel the need to spend four-to-five times the cost of their latest OS just to use the interface I don't need.

Re:Based on the pricing for this kit so far... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743397)

....I don't really feel the need to spend four-to-five times the cost of their latest OS just to use the interface I don't need.

Your almost as dumb as niggers. If youre dumb enough to buy this shit you will say racist microsoft is oppressing you. nothing is ever niggers fault you know. they make dumb chocies and it is whitey's fault. they don't raise their kids. they dont even pay for their kids! fucking ghetto rats.

Re:Based on the pricing for this kit so far... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41745517)

Your almost as dumb as niggers. If youre dumb enough to buy this shit you will say racist microsoft is oppressing you. nothing is ever niggers fault you know. they make dumb chocies and it is whitey's fault. they don't raise their kids. they dont even pay for their kids! fucking ghetto rats.

Black guy steal your wife, eh? Its ok *little guy*, I'm sure some woman out there will have you no matter how lacking you are.

Look Ma, No Fingerprints (3, Insightful)

Jeng (926980) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743035)

Well that is one way one to make Windows 8 easier to use on the desktop.

Re:Look Ma, No Fingerprints (2)

NatasRevol (731260) | about a year ago | (#41743929)

Of course, you have to move your hands all the way to the edge of the camera to get the options.

Re:Look Ma, No Fingerprints (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41745099)

don't forget people that have 3 monitors, might as well act like your swinging a bat to get to each side.

Re:Look Ma, No Fingerprints (1)

GigaplexNZ (1233886) | about a year ago | (#41746569)

It's just a shame that the "no compromise" formerly-known-as-Metro interface was redesigned from the ground up for the new interfaces of today and they didn't include the Xbox accessories in that plan... (I was a little disappointed I couldn't use my Xbox controller to navigate the Windows 8 Xbox themed apps such as games, music, video for example)

Re:Relevant Article (2)

NatasRevol (731260) | about a year ago | (#41743955)

So awesome.

“You could even tap out numbers on a make-believe number pad to call someone on your cell without actually having to take it out your pocket. Fuck knows how you’d talk to them, but who the hell cares when you’re basically Tom Cruise from Minority Report.”

With the technology likely to become commercially available within the next few years, analysts expect it to be popular among Kinect users and other people with no self-respect.

Clearly anyone that uses windows (1)

fredrated (639554) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743093)

wants to be waving their hands around, trying to get their computer to do what they want, because that is the best way to interface with a computer!

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (4, Funny)

Antipater (2053064) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743287)

I just want to be able at some point to say, "Oh. A keyboard. How quaint."

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (1)

nojayuk (567177) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743333)

Isn't waving your hands around how you make an iPad do what you want? Or is that different?

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743399)

It's a bit different - in the iPad's case you're sliding your hands around wildly on a screen, leaving greasy finger marks on it, but at least people walking into the room know you're fighting with your iPad. With Kinect, you're waving your hands wildly in the air - no greasy finger marks, but people walking into the room will wonder if you're having a bad acid trip and trying to kill the spiders.

That being said, I know five people who own Kinects (only one has an XBox), but only one person who has an iPad. Oddly enough, the one with the iPad is also the one with the XBox.

Also, does this mean black people won't be able to use Windows anymore without wearing gloves and masks, or have they fixed that little glitch in the Kinect?

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743675)

Also, does this mean black people won't be able to use Windows anymore without wearing gloves and masks, or have they fixed that little glitch in the Kinect?

niggers are too poor to buy electronics like that. if they do buy them it's with your money anyway. so who cares?

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41745973)

...but people walking into the room will wonder if you're having a bad acid trip and trying to kill the spiders.

I kill smurfs on my bad acid trips.

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (1)

RaceProUK (1137575) | about a year and a half ago | (#41750545)

Also, does this mean black people won't be able to use Windows anymore without wearing gloves and masks, or have they fixed that little glitch in the Kinect?

Wasn't that 'glitch' essentially traced to poorly-lit rooms? It was a factor at least.

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#41743543)

Isn't waving your hands around how you make an iPad do what you want? Or is that different?

Well, when I gesture on my iPad, it does what I want ... when I try to use some of the stuff in my Kinect, I find myself repeating myself or going back to the controller.

In some games, the Kinect interface is almost useless. I can't imagine trying to work with it, it's got a long way to go for that.

The latest Tiger Woods game is bordering on painful in places ... move your hand right or left to do something, move right, nothing, move further right, nothing, move further right and then it swings wildly ... repeat on the left to get back where you want.

If the same thing were true of my desktop interface, it would be switched off, packed away, and the mouse would be back in use in about 45 seconds.

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (1)

RaceProUK (1137575) | about a year and a half ago | (#41750547)

How well lit is the room?

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#41755853)

How well lit is the room?

Well enough for the screen insert which shows the camera view to have a good outline of me and be able to show brightly colored blobs where my hands are.

It can definitely see me.

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (1)

Bitsy Boffin (110334) | about a year and a half ago | (#41747177)

No, waving your hands around is how you get an iPHONE to work.

You're not holding it right!

Re:Clearly anyone that uses windows (2)

mspohr (589790) | about a year ago | (#41744551)

Back in the bad old days when I was forced to use a Windows computer, I used to wave my hands (and one particular finger) at it a lot... it didn't seem to do to much but it made me feel better.

How about (2, Interesting)

afidel (530433) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743099)

How about they fix it on the xbox first. I can't even watch a DVD on the XBOX without a controller for some reason.

Re:How about (1)

Githaron (2462596) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743217)

The Kinect really needs to have several orders of magnitude greater resolution than the current system. It should be able to track individual fingers and facial expressions. Right now, it is just frustrating to use.

Re:How about (1)

Githaron (2462596) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743247)

It's speech recognition also sucks. I have to say "Xbox play!" at least six times before it does anything.

Re:How about (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743353)

I disagree. My Xbox remote was destroyed about a month ago, so I resorted to using voice commands until I could buy a new remote. Since then, I haven't even considered buying a remote, and my girlfriend is even using the voice recognition as well. My favorite is the "next episode" during Netflix marathons. That was indispensable when I had the flu last week and was laid up on the couch. Obviously voice recognition isn't ideal for everyone, but for some reason it seems to be tuned pretty well to my voice.

Re:How about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41744053)

You know what's unbelievable? That you couldn't push a button because of the flu, but you could clearly say "next episode".

Re:How about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41744545)

From one AC to another, Make sure you read the full comment before you add your commet. it just makes us all look bad when you make comments like that.

Re:How about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41745089)

Fix the annoying issue of brief and hidden comments, get rid of that stupid filter slider bar.

Re:How about (3, Informative)

gewalker (57809) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743315)

Check out leap [leapmotion.com] watch the video, still claiming that that will ship in early 2013.

Re:How about (1)

Belial6 (794905) | about a year ago | (#41743451)

That was my evaluation when I got it. I thought that it was a really neat toy, but by version 3 or maybe 4, it would be the kind of thing I might want to run as a real tool.

Re:How about (1)

SomePgmr (2021234) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743273)

I've had no problems with it. I particularly like the voice control.

The joke of it is that there hasn't been much in the way of gaming for the thing... which is really what it was supposed to be for.

Re:How about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743619)

Easy there, Redmond Bob. You're supposed to be subtle.

Re:How about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743377)

User error. Mine works fine.

Re:How about (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743479)

FUCK YOU SHILL.

Re:How about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743727)

And here's a shill that's accusing someone else of being a shill, just so shills can doubly shill.

shill.

Re:How about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743575)

User error. Mine works fine.

No, it doesn't. Its not supported in the DVD player. There's a valid, if not really good, reason for that.

There was a period of time before it was released that it did actually work.

Re:How about (2)

ChromaticDragon (1034458) | about a year ago | (#41743437)

Why would anyone want the Kinect to control DVD playback?

I have the Kinect. I like it for some things. But I believe game developers need to spend much more time creating things for which the Kinect works well rather than trying to shoehorn it into existing games (including future versions, etc.).

But why don't you just get a modern Universal Remote? X-Box ought to be a standard option. Works fine for me.

Re:How about (1)

afidel (530433) | about a year ago | (#41743811)

I didn't even realize the xbox 360 had an IR port. I guess I'll have to program my receivers remote to control the xbox on DVD function mode =)

I should still be able to control it through the Kinect if I want since there's no reason for it to not work (given that third parties have figured out how to do media control with the Kinect it's obviously possible and something people have asked for).

Not a problem with resolution (1)

Okian Warrior (537106) | about a year ago | (#41743517)

The Kinect Gesture challenge over at Kaggle [kaggle.com] was a competition where the goal was to match gestures with a specified dictionary of previously-recorded gestures.

The problem isn't the resolution, it's the recognition algorithm.

A human looking at the videos could easily distinguish between gestures and interpret the meaning. The problem was even easier for a human because you only had to choose the closest match from within the dozen-or-so gestures in the dictionary. This leads me to believe that it's not a problem with the resolution, or the hardware in general.

Despite this, gesture recognition is a very difficult problem. Aspects which humans would naturally interpret as similar can be wildly different for the computer. Hold your hand up and wave - if the hand is in a different position (relative to the torso), the angle of waving is different, the body is waving back and forth instead of still, the number of waves is different, the time cadence of the waving is different... all of these confuse the heck out of a match algorithm.

(One video had curtains in the background, apparently waving ever so slightly in the breeze - causing lots of motion for the camera. Another video (color channel) contained an intricate flower pattern, which was very complex to match against.)

Finger position and motion have limited resolution (they form only a small part of the input field), but a human could still interpret various ASL hand signs to a large extent. Perhaps very similar hand signs would be difficult to discriminate, but certainly many of the ones shown were recognizable.

This is pretty-much an aspect of hard AI. We're not that close to solving this problem, and breakthroughs are not expected any time soon.

Re:Not a problem with resolution (1)

tgd (2822) | about a year ago | (#41743645)

The Kinect Gesture challenge over at Kaggle [kaggle.com] was a competition where the goal was to match gestures with a specified dictionary of previously-recorded gestures.

The problem isn't the resolution, it's the recognition algorithm.

Its a little bit of both, actually. The problem isn't resolution, from a hardware standpoint -- its the point density on the IR projector and the lens on the IR camera that limits how close you can be to a Kinect and still have any accuracy. Once your depth cues go wonky, gesture recognition becomes much harder.

Gesture recognition, while not trivial, is not intrinsically more complicated than whole body tracking. The way Kinect does it is very clever, knowing basically "where can the body have moved from where it last was" which makes the matching process very efficient computationally. Gestures are the same thing. Your joints can only each move one of a limited set of ways from where it was. Just like handwriting recognition is dramatically easier for computers when they can see the order of strokes, the same is true of gestures.

What Apps? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41743147)

I have this application that keeps track of my personnel and HR resources. Before Kinect, I hated to fire people. It was always a miserable experience.

But now with Kinect, I love to fire people! I rewrote the code so all I have to do is highlight your HR Record, stand in front of my Kinect, and dance, baby, dance!!! Kinect made Christmas fun again. We're usually low on money around Christmas, and with the new fiscal year, we often have to lay people off in bulk. So, my HR staff and I have dance-offs to decide who goes and who stays! It's a real hoot! If HR wins, you stay for another day! If I win, *poof* you're gone!

Thanks Microsoft!!!

Translation : M$ is out of gimicks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41743165)

This is just another sign M$ is out of gimmicks to keep people away from free software such as GUN/Linux, LaTeX, LibreOffice, etc; so much so that they are bringing a failed motion sensing device to M$ Winbows and forcing it on their sheep. Face it, M$ is a bunch of old washed up hasbeens and soon everyone at M$ will be in the unemployment line, pennyless.

--
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk
Friends do assist M$ addicted friends in committing suicide.

Re:Translation : M$ is out of gimicks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41743331)

No, FOSS does that on its own. Normal people find the three packages you listed to be lacking when compared to their non-free Windows counterparts. You're just out of touch with the rest of the world, but that's expected on this site.

Re:Translation : M$ is out of gimicks (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743863)

Sounds like you're the one out of touch, LaTeX plays all my HD videos perfectly.

M$ AstroTurfer spreads more fud (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41744825)

Gee, how much has M$ paid you to shill for them? Yeah, the three packages I have mentioned lacks the features their non-free counterparts from M$ have: digital restrictions management, malware, and inferior formats that are proprietary, I'll stick with something that will ensure my freedom. Soon you will figure it out like everyone else that M$ will lock you into their monopoly once again.

--
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk
Friends do assist M$ addicted friends in committing suicide.

Ugh, please no... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41743169)

While it's true I do what an interface less stressing on my wrists than a mouse/keyboard, I can tell you right now that the Kinect is going in the opposite direction of that.

The hardware (2)

Dyinobal (1427207) | about a year and a half ago | (#41743173)

I don't have any issues with Kinect it's pretty good hardware, you can get better but the idea and the price is rather good. If it came with my PC or was a fairly cheep upgrade say 50 to 75 dollars i"d pick it up.

Until they get that though I really doubt I'll pick it up. That and there needs to be a genuine application that kinect is genuinely a must have for.

GestSure (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41743291)

GestSure? Gesture? More like "Guessed? Sure!" Am I right? High five gesture!

Re:GestSure (1)

ackthpt (218170) | about a year ago | (#41743505)

GestSure? Gesture? More like "Guessed? Sure!" Am I right? High five gesture!

The gestures and language I use when trying to get things done in windows aren't for children to see or hear.

Control-Alt-Delete (1)

scint (555735) | about a year ago | (#41743443)

What sort of replacement gesture might be required to replace the traditional three-finger-salute?

Re:Control-Alt-Delete (1)

jgtg32a (1173373) | about a year ago | (#41744541)

Hopefully they'll set it to respond to what I've always done before giving it the 3 finger, I give it the 1 finger salute.

Re:Control-Alt-Delete (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41745779)

I think a traditional one-finger gesture might be appropriate in this case.

I got sucked in by Kinect hype (3, Informative)

nysus (162232) | about a year ago | (#41743445)

When it first came out I thought "gimmick." Then I read blogs and new stories for over year after it came out with people talking about how cool it was. I still didn't believe it. But when it came time to buy the XBox for my kid, I decided we needed to have it just to see what it was about. I was actually excited to try it out. We lived our first weekend with the living room in disarray so we could have room to use it.

Of course, the novelty wore off very quickly and all it does now is collect dust and take up space in front of the TV. It's voice control sucks and using it with the menu system with gestures is just annoying. It's far easier to use the controller.

At least I can say I tried it, I guess.

I'd settle for a secure OS that works (-1)

ackthpt (218170) | about a year ago | (#41743471)

All these stupid bells and whistles I usually leave out of Linux builds as I never need them and it's just more bloat.

Re:I'd settle for a secure OS that works (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743567)

Let's see here.....

Booting up: Works.
Launching web browser: Works.
Playing latest games at medium to high detail level for hours on end: Works.
Voice chat with friends via Teamspeak server on WHS box in same room: Works.
Entering in and out of sleep mode a couple times per day: Works.

What's that, now?

Re:I'd settle for a secure OS that works (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743971)

Misguided sense of superiority is missing.

Re:I'd settle for a secure OS that works (1)

ackthpt (218170) | about a year ago | (#41744571)

Misguided sense of superiority is missing.

How about actually trying to get work done without the operating system changing in behavior on you, inexplicably losing data in applications because some requester popped up when you were exiting and intended to save, have the keystroke stolen and then the app exits without saving. Dumb crap like that. Also, less nagging, just shut up and let me do my work.

No surprises here (1)

jd659 (2730387) | about a year ago | (#41743475)

If Kinect allows Microsoft and partners receiving the video feed, recognize facial expressions and general movements, get audio, understand the room's geometry, etc. then I can see why a company would want to have such a device connected to every machine in every home!

Is it just me? (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about a year ago | (#41743743)

Is it just me? Or didn't everything even remotely cool that was done with the connect happen on something other than windows?

I wonder (1)

crakbone (860662) | about a year ago | (#41743775)

I wonder if they make the system shutdown or restart the same gesture as picking up a cup of coffee and setting it down?

Surgeons? (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | about a year ago | (#41743837)

Why the hell would a surgeon use hand gestures? Their hands are the most occupied part of their body! Speech recognition, or a helpful nurse/assistant that can hear you talk would be 1000 times better. The ONLY use I can see for a kinect in the operating table would be for recording physical locations by pointing and posibly measuring stuff on the fly (though I don't think the resolution is high enough yet for either of these tasks).

Re:Surgeons? (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about a year ago | (#41743893)

For surgery simulations, and training. It is becoming more popular to train students on these simulations (it is easier to simulate complications, than to wait for them to happen in real life patients). There is also research on whether remote surgery is possible. If it is, I assume the kinetic will be very useful.

Re:Surgeons? (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about a year ago | (#41743925)

Actually, after RTFAing, it does seem to be for aiding real life surgeons by providing a touch free interface to view images and such, I am not sure why any surgeon would want that.

Won't this be exhausting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#41743849)

My kids and I love our Wii, but I can't imagine holding my arms up in the air all day. With a mouse the weight of my hand rests on a desk. A pen is the same thing - the desk holds some the weight of your arm. Perhaps someone can explain to me how gesture control will be used in a work environment, because it sounds like a 8 hour workout to me.

Re:Won't this be exhausting? (1)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | about a year and a half ago | (#41750191)

So that is actually a good thing. Lots of office workers have bodies that are too much adapted to their chairs.

Microsoft should actively seed SDK kits with devs (1)

ZP-Blight (827688) | about a year ago | (#41744313)

If Microsoft is really serious about this, they should actively approach developers and send them SDK kits.
I wouldn't mind having access to the tech and SDK for Zoom Player without having to jump through too many hoops.

How about a version that actually works for games? (1)

Tridus (79566) | about a year ago | (#41744683)

Kinect is a success in that it sold a lot of units, but it's a miserable failure at selling games outside the dance genre. This year's release list is littered with Kinect games that bombed in spectacular fashion, as it's just good a good system of control for gaming.

Are they going to fix that, or are they going to just make everything else equally as bad as the gaming experience?

Re:How about a version that actually works for gam (1)

geekoid (135745) | about a year ago | (#41745691)

IS who going to fix it? slapping kinetic usage on top of a game not designed for it by smart people is a developer issue.

I've seen it work well in too many instance to think it's a kinetic issue as opposed to a developer issue.

Build Kinect SDK into the Windows Runtime? (1)

elabs (2539572) | about a year ago | (#41745469)

The new WinRT tablets coming out will all have USB ports. They really should build the Kinect SDK into the Windows Runtime so Metro (i.e. "Modern") apps can access it. Right now only desktop apps can access the Kinect SDK.

Skype, Gesture & Voice Controls (1)

Stepnsteph (1326437) | about a year ago | (#41745473)

I like it. I would get one, if the price were right, and I'm assuming that it would bring something beyond what my HD web cam can do (and Kinect seems to have infrared now, so apparently that's a yes). The implications for Skype are obvious, but this could potentially be an easy way to perform simple tasks in Windows.

There is potential here. I love technology, so I say bring it on and let's see where we can go with it.

Re:Skype, Gesture & Voice Controls (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41750407)

It will never be useful. It will never have the precision of a keyboard/controller. Read my lips: NEVER. Not because we cannot reach the required image or processing resolution. Its because of us humans. Our arms/legs/finger suck. That about it.

This is not technology, this is hype. Useless, and btw old hype.

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