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Trouble For Microsoft Developers With the Windows Store

Unknown Lamer posted about 2 years ago | from the if-it-works-for-apple dept.

Microsoft 232

An anonymous reader writes "This blog post from an un-happy Microsoft developer highlights many of the problems that developers are having with submitting to the new Windows store. His app, that won 2 App X challenges from Microsoft, has been rejected 6 times over 2 months with no clear indications as to the cause. This is even after going through a rigorous early-certification process. With Windows RT relying solely on apps from the store, and there being just over 7,000 apps total, Microsoft could have a big problem here."

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only 7000 apps? (5, Funny)

wardk (3037) | about 2 years ago | (#41773935)

that's only like 3 per RT user?

the horror

Re:only 7000 apps? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41773967)

It's probably more then Apple's iTunes live apps. 80% of Apple apps has never been downloaded, less then %1 earned more the $1000... Apple is so technically incompetent that they utterly failed to provide any kind of discovery system for apps, therefore it is futile to develop for them anymore. Microsoft has a huge chance to win the developers here.

Re:only 7000 apps? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41773989)

technically incompetent [techcrunch.com]

Re:only 7000 apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774001)

preying on retards has always been profitable. says more about the customers than about apple.

Re:only 7000 apps? (4, Funny)

Concerned Onlooker (473481) | about 2 years ago | (#41774191)

"preying on retards has always been profitable."

Is that how Microsoft initially came to dominate?

Re:only 7000 apps? (1)

ls671 (1122017) | about 2 years ago | (#41774539)

Hum, I guess you make a point. Nevertheless, I like the term "cattle" better. Cattle is not necessary retard. It can have a lot of potential although not aware of it.

Re:only 7000 apps? (0, Flamebait)

atlasdropperofworlds (888683) | about 2 years ago | (#41774201)

Another example of severe reading comprehension difficulty. Don't worry AC, one day you'll be able to use your real name. Maybe.

Re:only 7000 apps? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774447)

And i'm sure that one day you will learn respect for others, maybe...

Re:only 7000 apps? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774469)

Ah yes, another dipshit holier-than-thou logged-in poster who uses an online pseudonym that is in no way traceable to his or her real identity lecturing ACs about how cowardly they are for not posting with an account.

Re:only 7000 apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774521)

It's funny, I looked up his info to prove you wrong, but 4 out of his top 5 tags are "!" and the other one is "fud". Why so negative (literally)? Apparently he is a bit of a holier-than-thou /. user, oh well.

Re:only 7000 apps? (-1, Flamebait)

Pinhedd (1661735) | about 2 years ago | (#41774433)

Fools are easily parted from their money.

The OP is correct. Apple's software engineers are incompetent. The industrial designers are holding the company together

Re:only 7000 apps? (4, Insightful)

Dahamma (304068) | about 2 years ago | (#41774571)

Yes, there is nothing about OSX or iOS that is remotely interesting or useful, and it's all just pretty enclosures making them $40B a year in profit. You are so right and all of Apple's engineers are incompetent!

Implementing the first iPhone was about 1% ID, 5% hardware, and the rest software by resources. And whatever you think of it personally, it absolutely redefined the mobile industry and has been so ridiculously successful it made Apple the most valuable company in the world. Fools, indeed.

Re:only 7000 apps? (4, Insightful)

socceroos (1374367) | about 2 years ago | (#41774013)

This isn't an Apple only problem. With any delivery system, as soon as you hit critical mass people get lost in the din. Look at music, movies, books, etc. It's all the same and Microsoft will have the same problems if they too can get their store off the ground.

Re:only 7000 apps? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774057)

If by 80% you mean 90%, and by "never been downloaded", you mean "downloaded every month", you're spot on!

http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/12/ios-app-store-boasts-700k-apps-90-downloaded-every-month/

Re:only 7000 apps? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774135)

He wasn't talking about the iOS AppStore, but thanks for adding to the confusion.

Re:only 7000 apps? (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41774143)

If an application is downloaded once a month, how can the developer be making his annual fee back?

Re:only 7000 apps? (2)

dbraden (214956) | about 2 years ago | (#41774299)

Simple: not all apps earn enough to cover the annual fee. On the upside, developers aren't restricted to publishing just one app.

Re:only 7000 apps? (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41774413)

On the upside, developers aren't restricted to publishing just one app.

I thought the developer fee was limited to a specific number of applications (five?), beyond which point each application carried an extra annual fee. Or maybe that was just the Windows Phone 7 store.

Re:only 7000 apps? (2)

cbhacking (979169) | about 2 years ago | (#41774541)

I don't own a Mac, so I've never even tried to develop for the iOS store or OS X store. However, I did look into the WP7 store. There was a (brief) time, ending almost two years ago, when you were limited to five *free* app submissions per annual fee. Paid apps didn't have this restriction, because MS would get a cut of the purchase price. The limit was quickly lifted to something like 100 app - high enough that even somebody who wanted to flood the market with junk would have to work pretty hard to hit the limit.

Re:only 7000 apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774329)

90% downloaded every month ?? Is that a joke? very very improbable my friend... look, the Top 100, featured apps plus the game center feature that is maybe about 150 store front apps and these only visible apps make about 0.02% out of 700,000 apps in the store.

Re:only 7000 apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774099)

How many times does this nonsense need to be debunked before idiots quit posting it?

Re:only 7000 apps? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774243)

This 7000 is made up of 4000 Fart apps and 2999 Flashlight apps. There is also 1 app for reporting Bluescreens.

Re:only 7000 apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774385)

*than

Re:only 7000 apps? (2)

ls671 (1122017) | about 2 years ago | (#41774507)

Fuck app stores without regards for their flavor!

Re:only 7000 apps? (2)

atlasdropperofworlds (888683) | about 2 years ago | (#41774217)

This is just like the console wars of the 80s! My console has over 500 games, yours only 100! HAHAHAHAHA!

"could have a big problem" (5, Insightful)

Chas (5144) | about 2 years ago | (#41773947)

Uhm. The OS is released and there's major dumb-fuckery going on in their online store, the ONLY place you can buy apps from for certain versions of the new OS.

That's not a "could have a big problem" thing.

That's a "HAS a big problem" thing.

Re:"could have a big problem" (2, Insightful)

socceroos (1374367) | about 2 years ago | (#41774007)

I see this tablet/phone foray as one of Microsoft's last rolls of the dice. If this doesn't work then they'll be marginalized sooner rather than later. I know its been 'heralded' for too long, but we are actually seeing a shift in the primary use of computers. PCs, like it or not are fast heading towards niche status.

I advise you to now swallow a few grains of salt.

Re:"could have a big problem" (3, Interesting)

caballew (2725281) | about 2 years ago | (#41774263)

I don't see MS and/or PCs being marginalized simply because business won't adopt Win 8 RT if it means their in-house software as well as other specialized software can't be used unless MS approves it in their App store. This might affect individuals but not business clients from small business to enterprise clients. With these restrictions, development for Android will only grow while development for Win 8 RT will whither after the initial rush of early development. Sorta like how SPARC and DEC lost out in the business desktop and small server application race; poor business model equals failure. There are still way too many businesses using XP that haven't even upgraded to Win7 because of legacy and in-house software .

Re:"could have a big problem" (1)

epine (68316) | about 2 years ago | (#41774287)

I know its been 'heralded' for too long, but we are actually seeing a shift in the primary use of computers. PCs, like it or not are fast heading towards niche status.

You mean like The Beatles after Kurt Cobain? People under the age of 25 have this peculiar habit of assigning anything that's not the automatic topic of conversation to niche status. Such as the internal combustion engine in the era of alternative energy. Gasoline is pretty niche these days. And this is almost true: it will never again be the locus of the next big thing.

The 109,000-horsepower WÃrtsilÃ-Sulzer RTA96-C, which first set sail in the Emma Mærsk in 2006, weighs in at a rotund 2,300 tons, and it's 44-feet tall and 90-feet long.

When do you think they'll ship their last unit? When do you think you'll next walk into your local Walmart, and not a single item in the store was shipped from China in a cargo ship powered by this engine, or its near relatives? When do you think that most of what you find if your local Walmart was not transported by such an engine? But if your Mercedes SUV no longer sports an internal combustion engine, then I guess internal combustion is niche.

When do you think that mobile application development will be 90% self-hosted? Ever? Pretty soon we'll grow our first pate de foie gras in a yeast vat, and the year after someone on Slashdot will describe the livestock industry as "niche", while "70% of agricultural land and 30% of the global land area" are still used for livestock production and dimpled by cloven hoof prints.

One could also describe earthworms as "niche", if one means by niche so super important that humanity itself is the afterthought in this equation. To describe generalists and their draught horses as "niche" buggers the word so badly its rectum flops out. Niche is not the antonym to lemming predilections.

Re:"could have a big problem" (1)

socceroos (1374367) | about 2 years ago | (#41774459)

I appreciate your well described strawman. However, I believe you've missed my point. 'Smart' devices (read: tablets/phones) are already outpacing PC counterparts in terms of raw sales. Their relevance increases as more people use them more frequently than their PCs. Now, what has this got to do with my suggestion of Microsoft being marginalized? Well, they're not in the game, are they?

Am I saying you won't be using a PC when you head into work tomorrow? Nope. Was that what I was suggesting...at all? Nope.

Re:"could have a big problem" (4, Interesting)

fm6 (162816) | about 2 years ago | (#41774295)

Why do you think that another mobile failure will marginalize MS? None of the previous ones did. Are you under the impression that everybody's going to throw away their PC and start using a tablet? That's not what's happening. PC sales are stagnant because the market's saturated. Tablet sales are booming because it's new use case that users are just beginning to move to. One is not being replaced by the other.

It's true that this is going to hurt MS. But they'll still collect a tithe for every non-Mac PC sold, and they'll still sell a lot of server licenses. As these markets saturate, they will cease to make MS uber-profitable, but these markets are still big, and will remain so — as will Microsoft.

Re:"could have a big problem" (5, Funny)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 2 years ago | (#41774049)

That's a "HAS a big problem" thing.

Problem, n.: A feature. -- The New Ballmer Dictionary

Re:"could have a big problem" (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774109)

I've been working in the same building as the group developing the Windows Store, and this is a bit surprising. They've been putting a *LOT* of work into it for quite some time, and it seems well-organized, but I'm not a developer myself so that's just my impression.

Re:"could have a big problem" (1)

Trilkin (2042026) | about 2 years ago | (#41774631)

Why is this marked troll? Jesus Christ, Slashdot - what is wrong with you?

Re:"could have a big problem" (0)

JMJimmy (2036122) | about 2 years ago | (#41774271)

He's short, bald, really kind of a douche, and is determined to run Microsoft into oblivion.

http://scm-l3.technorati.com/11/01/31/25951/steve-ballmer.jpg [technorati.com]

Re:"could have a big problem" (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774333)

He's short, bald, really kind of a douche, and is determined to run Microsoft into oblivion.

If 6'5" is "short," I'd hate to see what "tall" is.

Re:"could have a big problem" (4, Interesting)

cbhacking (979169) | about 2 years ago | (#41774611)

For those who prefer metric, that's about 195.6 cm. He's well above 99th percentile for height. Big, too. Kind of an imposing-looking guy, in fact.

Re:"could have a big problem" (2)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 2 years ago | (#41774051)

Quality over quantity any time.

However too little quantity is not good - both Apple and Google have about 100 time more apps in their stores... MS has a long way to go.

And somehow I hope they make it. Not that I care much about MS as such, it'd be great to have a third viable competitor in this market. And MS Is pretty much the only company that I can think of that could pull that off.

Re:"could have a big problem" (2)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774253)

Meh, this is all part of the plan!

A few people will buy the Surface and they'll say "My God! Tablets are just awful! I vow to stick with PCs and never look at anything else ever!" Problem solved.

Re:"could have a big problem" (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | about 2 years ago | (#41774399)

Uhm. The OS is released and there's major dumb-fuckery going on in their online store, the ONLY place you can buy apps from for certain versions of the new OS.

That's not a "could have a big problem" thing.

That's a "HAS a big problem" thing.

Are people scooping up Windows 8?

Re:"could have a big problem" (1)

ne0n (884282) | about 2 years ago | (#41774533)

You'd think we could collectively shut our internet-enabled mouths for a year and let this RT abortion gasp its last few breaths. Let MS pump some cash into it, prop up the hardware division, subsidize a few thousand Playbooks -- err, meant Surfaces. Then at a packed (thanks to the free sea-bass and pumpkin juice) "developers" meeting, Steve could make a sweaty chair-throwing announcement and they'd finally give up, redacting press releases to pretend it never happened.

That would be the right thing for us to do. MS hoist by their own greedy petard. Welcome to my ignore list, RT.

Sideloading is actually possible, even on RT (1)

cbhacking (979169) | about 2 years ago | (#41774597)

It's not exactly hugely encouraged for arbitrary apps - it's supposedly for dev/test and for organization-specific internal apps - but any Windows 8 or Windows RT device can sideload "Metro"-style apps just fine. They don't make it easy; you have to use the command line (Powershell, specifically) for both the "developer unlock" and for installing the apps (at least, that's the easiest way that I've found), but it doesn't cost anything.

I don't have any idea how this guy would respond to a suggestion that he post the .APPX somewhere we can download it for sideloading, but in theory, this could have been done.

Actually doesn't really matter to it (2, Interesting)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 2 years ago | (#41774687)

The Surface was dead before it ever launched. The reason is that there is no tablet market, there's an iPad market.

Most people have no use for tablets. There are niche uses (the in medicine) but by and large there just isn't a real use for tablets. People are not going to be able to get rid of their computers because tablets are lousy for content creation, even basic content like writing an e-mail or forum post. However they aren't portable like a smartphone so you don't take it with you all the time. They try to fill a niche where your smartphone isn't large enough for what you need, but your laptop isn't portable enough. There is almost none of that in a normal person's life. I've yet to meet someone that has dumped their smartphone or computer for their tablet and as such they really don't need it.

However, the iPad is a cool tech toy, and fashion accessory, to have. People want one because it is cool, not because they need it. They want to be seen with it and they want to mess around with it. However that is only the case because it is an iPad. Apple makes the cool consumer electronics currently. MS never will, they are horrible at selling style.

So they are trying to get in to a market that just isn't there. Tablets are going to fade away as the fad passes. People will find that their smartphone is just more convenient for the "small" computing needs and that a laptop or maybe desktop are better when you need to do some work or the like.

Even if they had a stellar app store with tons of apps the surface still wouldn't go anywhere because nobody gives a shit because it isn't an iPad.

Clearly this is Apple's fault (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41773949)

First they reject apps on their own store, now they're rejecting apps on Microsoft's store! When will the insanity end?

Re:Clearly this is Apple's fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41773987)

de nae wonder. The soundness of the policy will no doubt benefact the benefactors.

Re:Clearly this is Apple's fault (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | about 2 years ago | (#41774381)

de nae wonder. The soundness of the policy will no doubt benefact the benefactors.

And leave the users feeling benefact.

Re:Clearly this is Apple's fault (2, Funny)

M. Baranczak (726671) | about 2 years ago | (#41774281)

Well, MS already copied everything else from Apple. This shouldn't come as a surprise.

Existing Functionality. (3, Funny)

PlusFiveTroll (754249) | about 2 years ago | (#41773961)

I tried to submit and app called the Windows Store but it was rejected because it duplicated the existing functionality of the Apple App Store.

Developers (5, Funny)

PPH (736903) | about 2 years ago | (#41773965)

Developers! Developers! Developers!

Developers?

[sound of crickets]

Re:Developers (2)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 2 years ago | (#41774033)

They're all working on Android and iOS already!

I really tried to care... (5, Funny)

TWX (665546) | about 2 years ago | (#41773973)

...honestly, but between Apple's psychotic terms and Google's loose terms leading to virus problems, I really just don't care. Someone will come up with a third-party installer that won't require any kind of permission or certification from Redmond, and since the bulk of people who'll have a snowball's chance in hell of actually noticing this deficiency will use that third-party loader, it won't really matter. If anything it'll allow for a separation between the mundane, boring user and the geek, techie, nerd, what have you.

Is post-geek a label? As in, one who used to pay attention to the excessive details of digging deep into how something works, but now has graduated into the realization that one can do whatever one needs to do with just about any tools or platform or system and no longer has a need to scrutinize so strongly because one's skills are good enough to weather any circumstances regardless of the technological changes?

Re:I really tried to care... (5, Insightful)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 2 years ago | (#41774021)

In between those I strongly prefer Google's terms.

First of all the Play Store has little virus issues. No idea on numbers, but it's not that I hear often about viruses in apps. Certainly the more popular apps are generally safe. And Apples app store is also not 100% clean, the vetting process is far from perfect.

I don't use third-party stores, but I have installed software directly from an app vendor's site. And have installed my own apps directly on my phone, without any issues. Having these possibilities is great. Being limited to a single store, and not being able to easily install apps in any other way, that just sucks.

Even if the Play Store started vetting their apps, then still not much lost as you're not limited to that store. There are alternatives. Unfortunately MS decides to go the Apple way - forgetting how the openness of Windows is part of what made the platform so ubiquitous.

Re:I really tried to care... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774025)

What your suggesting will never happen. It's already proven to be a failure. No one is “buying” it. Those who have tried it consider it crap. Why would I develop for a provenly pathetic OS that nobody will sell? It's a repeat of the last several Microsoft Windows phone OS's.

Re:I really tried to care... (4, Funny)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 2 years ago | (#41774065)

Is post-geek a label? As in, one who used to pay attention to the excessive details of digging deep into how something works, but now has graduated into the realization that one can do whatever one needs to do with just about any tools or platform or system and no longer has a need to scrutinize so strongly because one's skills are good enough to weather any circumstances regardless of the technological changes?

Not everyone's skills are good enough.
But TWX (665546), you're not alone.
There is hope and there is help: Ask Slashdot: Rectifying Nerd Arrogance? [slashdot.org]

Re:I really tried to care... (4, Insightful)

deblau (68023) | about 2 years ago | (#41774111)

You aren't post-geek, you've just graduated past the larval stage. :P

Re:I really tried to care... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774123)

a third-party installer that won't require any kind of permission or certification

Linux.

That sounds glib, but /can/ there be a solution that isn't open source's many-hands versus few-hands?

Dictatorships don't work. They're wide open to abuse, and the rare benevolent that is benevolent (Wales) is only useful for his finite life/attention-span. Messy, ever-tense, actual democracy seems to be the only way.

Re:I really tried to care... (2)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 2 years ago | (#41774125)

Is post-geek a label? As in, one who used to pay attention to the excessive details of digging deep into how something works, but now has graduated into the realization that one can do whatever one needs to do with just about any tools or platform or system and no longer has a need to scrutinize so strongly because one's skills are good enough to weather any circumstances regardless of the technological changes?

No, it's called maturity. It can happen as early as your late 20s, but typically it takes until the mid-30s to manifest. Other symptoms include being in bed by midnight, not being as good as you remember at first-person shooter games, and drinking coffee with a reasonable amount of sugar and creamer rather than dumping the lot into every cup and having a quarter-inch of sludge at the bottom.

Re:I really tried to care... (3, Funny)

jyx (454866) | about 2 years ago | (#41774525)

No, it's called maturity. It can happen as early as your late 20s, but typically it takes until the mid-30s to manifest. Other symptoms include being in bed by midnight, not being as good as you remember at first-person shooter games

Please stop stalking me.

Re:I really tried to care... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774145)

There really are no serious Android virus issues. The people pushing these stories are companies that sell virus protection software, and the only reason they're not spreading this FUD about the Apple platform is because Apple won't allow them to submit to the App store.

Basically every "virus" that has been found was on a random third-party Chinese app store mainly used for pirating apps. For users who stick to the real Play store, there are no problems.

Re:I really tried to care... (2)

sincewhen (640526) | about 2 years ago | (#41774165)

"post geek" - Interesting. But in my own case it is more like "too old and too cranky to put up with time-wasting crap any more".

I shop at the Linux App Store (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41773997)

Where everything is free and wonderful all the time.

Re:I shop at the Linux App Store (1)

Mike Buddha (10734) | about 2 years ago | (#41774031)

... on the mystical Debian island where all the computers are free and none of them work quite right...

Poor, poor, poor microsoft. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774005)

I never thought of it before: All of the developers for windows are trying to get their apps submitted into the store right now. Do you know what percentage of windows developers were good enough to even figure out Visual basic? Like maybe 25%? Now they have to review all fo those apps? Sweet sweet karma! Can Zend and Oracle open up a app stores too?? Thank you God, I always knew you existed!

Offtopic, but... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774009)

Is anyone else annoyed by the fact that the latest logo has Pac-Man eating ghosts that aren't running away?

Mod me down if you must, but surely the logo is more interesting than the tenth Windows 8 story in the past 24 hours.

Copying Apple again! (0)

GrahamCox (741991) | about 2 years ago | (#41774023)

Sounds pretty much like the experience you get on the Mac App Store as well. Can't Microsoft do anything without copying?

(Seriously, the MAS staff are some of the most arrogant assholes I've had to deal with from that company, and that's saying something!)

this guy is an idiot (-1, Troll)

mov_eax_eax (906912) | about 2 years ago | (#41774107)

he should run the Windows App Certification Kit tests [microsoft.com] where he can test the app before submission, and there are clear explanations of each and every one of the issues.

For example:
- direct3d: "Ensure that the app correctly supports the minimum Direct3D feature level you chose. If that feature level is higher than feature level 9_1, then your app must still run correctly at feature level 9_1. See Developing for different Direct3D feature levels (DirectX and C++) for more details".
- Crashes: "We expect apps to be fully functional without the use of Windows compatibility modes, AppHelp messages, or compatibility fixes."
- Performance: Make sure that your app suspends correctly.

The website linked in the app and listing page was not finished. i think is clear of its own, your webpage is clearly not finished.

Thankfully everyone can have the tool and run it until the tests are ok, then submit it, any programmer who refuses to read the fucking manual deserves to get out of the store.

Speaking of idiots... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774187)

he should run the Windows App Certification Kit tests [microsoft.com]

Try reading the article. He talks about how his results from running WACK on his own machine differed from the results obtained from the review process, and the frustration that occurred because Microsoft does not provide verbose reporting back on what actually went wrong.

Re:this guy is an idiot (5, Interesting)

cbhacking (979169) | about 2 years ago | (#41774199)

No, pretty sure *you* are the idiot here. If you'd actually RTFA, instead of whatever brief skim you took, you'd have seen that the guy ran WACK every time... and that it always ran clean on his system. He eventually got a failure out of it by running his VM's performance down to the Win8 mimum specs, but even after fixing that he continued getting unexplained errors from the certification process that didn't show up on his local system.

Also, WACK failed to catch a very simple and obvious thing - a piece of dev/test code that he'd left in a constructor, which will crash the app when run if installed from the store - that it clearly should have. That's exactly the kind of thing that static analysis should have found.

I'm rather shocked by Microsoft's failures, here. Usually, they're very good with dev tools and communication. Not this time, it seems. You'd think they'd have learned from the problems Apple had... it almost feels like they're trying to repeat Apple's mistakes too.

Re:this guy is an idiot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774465)

I'm still gonna write off the constructor issue to the dev not keeping a clean system around to deploy onto.

Re:this guy is an idiot (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#41774673)

Oh, but he did it, and he also did send the program to a lot of MS employees and affiliates to test, and it passed every time.

Re:this guy is an idiot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774235)

Have you read the post? He ran the tests.

Re:this guy is an idiot (0)

mov_eax_eax (906912) | about 2 years ago | (#41774383)

yes i reread it and he ran the test and failed miserably until two months ago, after submission it failed when he ran it in a slow machine something he never did before. and is stated as a requirement to pass the tests.

Re:this guy is an idiot (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774415)

Well how about the tests being stupid? Windows is not a realtime operating system. Saying that on all machines under all loads it has to do something in a constant amount of time is not sane. Sometimes what is normally a very quick operation will take two full seconds. The dopes on the WinRT team do not know this and have instead made the impossible into a certification requirement. (Yes, I know a bunch of them them, and yes, they are dopes. For full disclosure I used to be an MSFT employee.)

Next you'll tell me that their certification process requires solving the halting problem and yes, that's a good thing, the guy is lame for not covering all potential non-halting code paths.

Re:this guy is an idiot (1)

NoOneInParticular (221808) | about 2 years ago | (#41774603)

It's clear that you're a microsoftie as you obviously have no clue on what the halting problem is. The fact that you cannot write a program that can compute whether arbitrary programs halt or not, in no way implies that it is impossible to prove that a given program halts. Let me give an example of a program that can be proven to halt.

int main() {.return 0; }

No loops, no recursion, just a return statement. If you're a coder and truly have no clue whether your program halts or not, you have no business writing programs in the first place.

Re:this guy is an idiot (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#41774685)

Which he would have easily fixed if the certification process had given him the conditions of the failure in the results.

Nothing suspends correctly (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41774255)

- Performance: Make sure that your app suspends correctly.

If an application that uses code provided by Microsoft to save a single string doesn't "suspend correctly", then what application does "suspend correctly"?

Re:Nothing suspends correctly (1)

mov_eax_eax (906912) | about 2 years ago | (#41774355)

suspend correctly is that in a machine with low memory, slow cpu the application suspends in less than 2 seconds. at least to pass the test.

Re:Nothing suspends correctly (2)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41774405)

If writing a single string "in a machine with low memory, slow cpu" through the provided API takes more than two seconds, then nothing can pass the test.

"Fix security at any cost." (5, Insightful)

hessian (467078) | about 2 years ago | (#41774139)

Most computer users don't want a Wild West computer experience. They want a safe, functional one where the computer interface is as inobtrusive as possible. They want as little burden on their consciousness as possible, so they can focus on what they want to use the computer to do in the first place.

When you have an audience like that, expect tradeoffs. Less flexibility, more stability. Fewer options, more consistency. And now, the days of downloading random bits of code are over.

For 90% of the users out there, this will be a great experience. The rest will dual-boot...

Re:"Fix security at any cost." (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774323)

What your saying isn't translating. In the case of Microsoft/Windows the less restrictive platform won. Apple barely survived the 1990s. Then you have the phones. While Apple has a significant market share it isn't winning the war. Again the less restrictive platform is winning. All of this despite all the apps for the iPhone and its near ubiquity (if we were to believe the media hype). The fact is Android is winning the largest market segment despite all the clamor about it being difficult to develop for due to fragmentation. That's just propaganda from the other side. Microsoft and Apple in particular is damm good at it.

GNU/Linux on the desktop is still a work in progress mainly because no significant entity has developed the critical pieces necessary for it to take off in the mainstream. The only company really working on this is ThinkPenugin- a small company which has actually gotten REALLY far compared to any other larger multi million dollar operation. Everybody else has looked at solving the GNU/Linux 'problem' from the wrong angle. It's not just the applications today. It's the support stupid. You got to solve that. ThinkPenguin's done it through selling of freedom friendly hardware. That's not something you can find readily from ANY other source. Stuff that is truly freedom friendly works better. It's just a matter of this company scaling its operations to hit a mainstream audience. What they've proved is you can hit 50% of the mainstream today. 80% if various business applications were developed or ported. You don't know 80% though to be sucessful so the main thing is simply supporting the GNU/Linux desktop with technical support and hardware that "just works" with recent and long term support editions of distributions like Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and even Trisquel (a completely free version of GNU/Linux).

Re:"Fix security at any cost." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774337)

Most computer users don't want a Wild West computer experience. They want a safe, functional one where the computer interface is as inobtrusive as possible. They want as little burden on their consciousness as possible, so they can focus on what they want to use the computer to do in the first place.

When you have an audience like that, expect tradeoffs. Less flexibility, more stability. Fewer options, more consistency. And now, the days of downloading random bits of code are over.

For 90% of the users out there, this will be a great experience. The rest will dual-boot...

You found this pearl of wisdom out of your ass ?
I find it very funny how people tend to generalize with no proof whatsoever so they can push their agenda.

Re:"Fix security at any cost." (1)

klingers48 (968406) | about 2 years ago | (#41774419)

You found this pearl of wisdom out of your ass ? I find it very funny how people tend to generalize with no proof whatsoever so they can push their agenda.

You'd be shocked and amazed, but some of us, even who work in IT and are surrounded by computing in every facet of our lives, can actually believe this.

Most people I know who have interested largely outside computing will generally take the path of least resistance.

Re:"Fix security at any cost." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774499)

Historically, in the end openness wins. The IBM/PC won by allowing anyone to design and build hardware for it. Microsoft won by allowing anyone to write code for their crappy OS. My guess is restricted phones are a fad, it won't last more than a few more generations. People want to use phones for everything, and you can bet they'll sooner or later want to run inhouse code that barely works.

Re:"Fix security at any cost." (1)

Isaac Remuant (1891806) | about 2 years ago | (#41774411)

Most computer users don't want a Wild West computer experience. They want a safe, functional one where the computer interface is as inobtrusive as possible.

I dispute that. Once they get mildly comfortable they hear about things they can do and WANT to do them at any cost. That's when installing X software comes in. If you can assure them that every type of "X software" will be available in their app stores, I guess they won't have a problem. But if the app is somehow there but out of reach, I think you will have some inconvenienced users.

For the average user, being able to use something when they want beats security concerns every time. Security only becomes a factor when it affects usability.

Re:"Fix security at any cost." (1)

gigaherz (2653757) | about 2 years ago | (#41774693)

Even then, most users are like "my computer is slow again, clean it for me" and don't care if it's slow because they didn't remember to skip the software bundled in most freeware apps nowdays, or because that app they saw in a banner that adds funny animated wallpapers is actually also stealing your processing power (and the electricity required for it). What I mean is, even when it affects usability, they don't really care about security, they just care about doing what they want to do, when they want to do it.

Is this app really necessary? (2)

Animats (122034) | about 2 years ago | (#41774163)

"Swipe or scroll through a continuous collage of all your photos, dynamically generated as you browse. The layout is different every time, bringing your attention to new photos each time you browse a folder."

Nobody is going to miss that.

NOTHER NOVEL IDEA !! DON'T SUBMIT CRAP APPS !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774175)

And ye shallovercome !!

Don't give the man a chance to keep you down !!

Amen !!

helpful people? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774203)

"every person that I talked to personally was always helpful"

What are you talking about? You just got done saying that everyone you contacted either didn't get back to you, or didn't give you any explanation about why your app keeps failing with no useful error message. You call that helpful?

Developers, Developers, Developers (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774205)

Steve Ballmer to Developers: Drop Dead

"Could Have A Big Problem..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774269)

Ooh! I certainly hope so... ;o)

Walled gardens suck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774273)

This is why walled gardens suck. You make the software, you should be able to sell the software without needing some greedy suit's stamp of approval.

Don't play their game.

MS succeded (1)

xs650 (741277) | about 2 years ago | (#41774277)

MS's effort to emulate the iWalledGarden has been a partial success. They have a more impervious wall than Apple does. Too bad MS can't grow anything useful inside their wall.

Re:MS succeded (4, Informative)

cbhacking (979169) | about 2 years ago | (#41774573)

Mind you, unlike on iOS, Microsoft permits app sideloading (even on ARM devices), with no extra costs or limits that I've seen yet.

Open Powershell as Admin
Enter the command: Show-WindowsDeveloperLicenseRegistration
Enter your Windows Live credentials
Download and sideload apps to your heart's content.

On "App Stores..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774361)

There's a side story here, right?

Perhaps the main reason that Steve "me-too!" Ballmer is copying Apple is because he has seen them do something that has proven to be very profitable and decided that it would be a good way to try and turn-around Microsoft's ailing fortunes.

But the other aspect of this - which will certainly appeal to Ballmer - is the control that the "App Store paradigm" gives the owner of the platform. In Apple's case it's set up with a bit of an "Absolute Dictatorship" over what they will and will not allow in their store, but it is accompanied by a certain amount of rigour to weed out rogue software. In Google's case there is more of a laissez-faire attitude, but then users of the Android Marketplace have less reassurance about the quality and honesty of Apps they choose to download.

In Microsoft's case, it's too early to tell for sure. What we do know, however, is their track record when it comes to open competition in a marketplace. Put simply: they hate the idea. Microsoft are a convicted Monopolist with a track record of questionable and potentially anti-competitive activities a mile long. Companies they can't beat in open and fair competition, they buy. In fact, many of their most successful technologies started out as purchased applications (components of Office, such as Visio; Internet Explorer; etc, etc)

It will be interesting to see how regulators view the terms and conditions of the App Store, and how it plays out in practice. I was particularly interested to see the commentary from id Software, the folk behind the Steam store. That's been a well established and dominant "App Store" solution on the Windows platform for some time now, but I am not sure if id are going to commit to the Windows platform long term... If they do it would be interesting to see what would happen to the Microsoft portal if Steam started to offer business applications - because Microsoft will surely offer games in an attempt to grab a big chunk of the Steam marketplace.

One other observation... Whilst I am sure that it's working, I wonder if Apple's MacOS/X App Store is quite as successful as their iOS App Store? The latter is perfect for mobile apps and the "$1.99 brigade" of software toys that cost you less and entertain you more than a typical hobby magazine from a conventional book store. I don't see desktop users buying in to the same sort of segment in quite the same way. Sure, there will be bargain-basement apps at near-give-away prices, but I wonder if it's as popular with users? Developers may love it because it reduces distribution costs to zero. It may help reduce piracy in some instances. But these are critical for a different reason: they are features that matter more to the platform owner (Microsoft) than the customer (the end users). I wonder when we'll get to the point where that pendulum has swung too far?

Re:On "App Stores..." (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | about 2 years ago | (#41774395)

There's a side story here, right?

Perhaps the main reason that Steve "me-too!" Ballmer is copying Apple is because he has seen them do something that has proven to be very profitable and decided that it would be a good way to try and turn-around Microsoft's ailing fortunes

Yeah, they could copy Apple's graphical desktop UI, and rename their product from 'DOS' to 'Windows'..

I can't believe I read most of that (1)

proca (2678743) | about 2 years ago | (#41774403)

How do you go through an ordeal like that and then spend your time writing that much about it? You can never get the time back you spent rambling about some bug fixes.

Logo (Trademark) Issue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774431)

I'm gonna go with a guess that this has to do with the logo of Memorylage, which appears to have as a component, the Aperture Science logo rotated left a few degrees...

Re:Logo (Trademark) Issue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774455)

Oh, no, his app apparently failed for very easy to understand reasons, that should presumably get a lot easier after Windows 8 is released and they presumably release the validation suite into the public (allowing tests to be run at home, instead of submitted to the cloud).

That's what I get for trusting a slashdot summary.

Well duh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774435)

Once again microsoft is trying to copy apple. They too want an app store that rejects everything for stupid reasons!

Apple should sue. i'm sure they have a patent on a badly run app store submission system.

Microsoft still sucks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41774437)

Anyone who works for Microsoft or buys their products is a cunt. Don't be a cunt.

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