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Windows Phone 8 Having Trouble Attracting Developers

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the have-you-tried-bacon dept.

Windows 268

colinneagle writes "Microsoft has promised that cross-platform development across the 8s – from Windows 8 on a desktop to Windows Phone 8 – will be a simple matter, but that's still not enough to get some developers moving on Windows Phone 8 support. The Windows Phone platform has made a remarkable recovery since its reset with version 7. Since then, WP7 has grown to 100,000 apps. But that pales in comparison to the 675,000 in Google Play and 700,000 in the Apple App Store. Granted, there's a ton of redundancy – how many weather or newsfeed apps does one person need? – but it points to availability and developer support. A report from VentureBeat points out what should be obvious: that while developers like Windows 8, they aren't as excited about Windows Phone 8 software because they have already made huge investments in other platforms and don't want to support another platform. A survey by IDC and Appcelerator found 78% of Android developers were 'very interested' in programming for Android smartphones, a slight drop from the 83% in a prior survey. Interest in the iPhone and iPad remained undiminished, with 89% and 88% interest, respectively."

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They will have to invest in carriers (5, Insightful)

gtirloni (1531285) | about 2 years ago | (#41820833)

Once carriers start pushing W8 phones everywhere and users get to actually interact with those devices then developer interest will follow.

It's the cost of not being the cheapest or the first to market.

Re:They will have to invest in carriers (2)

Synerg1y (2169962) | about 2 years ago | (#41821055)

I can't seem to find anything on google either way, are win 7 market apps backwards compatible with windows 8?

Re:They will have to invest in carriers (4, Interesting)

gtirloni (1531285) | about 2 years ago | (#41821201)

Looks like it. Since they are saying WP8 has >100k apps. They must be counting WP7 apps.

http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store [windowsphone.com]

Re:They will have to invest in carriers (1)

darkgrayknight (1679662) | about 2 years ago | (#41821615)

Windows Phone 8 will run all Windows Phone 7 apps (well, 7.1 and 7.5, though I doubt there any relevant 7.0 apps still around).

Re:They will have to invest in carriers (2)

whoever57 (658626) | about 2 years ago | (#41821773)

I can't seem to find anything on google either way, are win 7 market apps backwards compatible with windows 8?

You mean forwards compatible? I think that MS is doing a one-time only conversion of apps from WP7 to Windows 8. [infoworld.com]

Re:They will have to invest in carriers (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821103)

Or too much churn in the platform.

You should use 2.10 no wait 2.11 no wait 3.1 no wait 3.10 no wait for 4 its going to be out of the park wait thats 5 or is it 6 or the soon to come 6.1.

Oh screw all that use .Net CFW (which does not work on anything bellow 6).

Oh screw all that use 7 oh wait 8...

And very little of what you write will compile on winxp/vista/7/8 and if it does all the apis work 'slightly' differently.

Re:They will have to invest in carriers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821235)

I don't understand why this is marked funny, it is 100% accurate...

No one has a W8 phone, why develop apps for it? Most still
have there 1 or 2 year contracts with iPhone or some Android device.
W8 will have to wait a little.... if not forever....

Re:They will have to invest in carriers (1)

firex726 (1188453) | about 2 years ago | (#41821493)

Yea, if you recall the iPhone was a big deal and then the App store was released after many people already had the HW.

Much easier to woo devs when you got a large install base, vs. trying to court them when most have not even heard of your HW/SW.

Re:They will have to invest in carriers (1)

timeOday (582209) | about 2 years ago | (#41821285)

Define first to market [wikipedia.org] .

Re:They will have to invest in carriers (4, Insightful)

eexaa (1252378) | about 2 years ago | (#41821769)

well, even before carriers and developers they should begin thinking about attracting actual users.

Well, Yeah (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41820845)

Those of us who've seen what happens when we invest time and money in Microsoft's other pet project platforms aren't about to jump on Windows Phone 8.

Re:Well, Yeah (4, Insightful)

Chaos Incarnate (772793) | about 2 years ago | (#41820941)

Agreed. Like Windows Phone 7.

Re:Well, Yeah (4, Insightful)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#41821021)

Windows mobile 6.

Re:Well, Yeah (4, Insightful)

Shoten (260439) | about 2 years ago | (#41821261)

Windows CE.

Re:Well, Yeah (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821477)

Windows.

Re:Well, Yeah (3, Insightful)

Arashi256 (1804688) | about 2 years ago | (#41821733)

Silverlight...XNA...

Re:Well, Yeah (2)

517714 (762276) | about 2 years ago | (#41821425)

Windows Mobile was a better platform in many regards than Windows Phone 7. 95% of the programs I had for the earliest WM hardware and software ran fine on WM 6.5 (a span of nearly a decade), and they cost a fraction of the apps for Android, iOS or WP7. Microsoft is right to drop legacy support periodically, but they shouldn't have done it between 6 and 7 and again between 7 and 8.

Re:Well, Yeah (1)

Serious Callers Only (1022605) | about 2 years ago | (#41821893)

Oh come on, what about plays for sure?

Re:Well, Yeah (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821137)

Our potential dev project for Windows Phone 8 is roadblocked at the moment since the SDK requires Windows 8 installed (and pro for the emulators). Obviously, none of us have Windows 8 installed on our computers at the moment - I'm very happy with Win7 personally, and leery of 8 from the previews - so getting the SDK up and running is pretty much impossible at this point.

I totally agree with your point, since all the prototyping we did for our Windows Phone 8 project was in Visual Studio 2010, targeting Windows Phone 7.5, on Win7 machines. None of that is actually useful right now. Surprise, surprise.

I guess this is true for any potential development house right now. If they want to develop for Windows Phone 8, they have to invest in a windows 8 computer and phone. I know everyone at BUILD got those for free, but that doesn't really help everyone else.

Re:Well, Yeah (3, Informative)

firex726 (1188453) | about 2 years ago | (#41821515)

I think that's where MS is going wrong on their whole setup, trying to push Devs onto the latest an greatest.

Whereas Apple and Google basically have you pay a small fee and you can get the SDK and app listed in their store. MS OTOH is telling Devs they need to buy a new untested OS to develop for their platform, in addition to everything else.

Re:Well, Yeah (3, Informative)

Arashi256 (1804688) | about 2 years ago | (#41821755)

Yeah? How many iOS apps can I develop on my Windows 7 box?

Re:Well, Yeah (0)

firex726 (1188453) | about 2 years ago | (#41821819)

IDK, how many workstations will Google force me to upgrade to their Chrome OS?

Re:Well, Yeah (1)

BLToday (1777712) | about 2 years ago | (#41821199)

Totally been there. Not happening again.

Re:Well, Yeah (3, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 years ago | (#41821221)

Those of us who've seen what happens when we invest time and money in Microsoft's other pet project platforms aren't about to jump on Windows Phone 8.

It will be interesting to see if the way that software is tightly coupled with hardware(hardware that is generally replaced at an alarming rate) in 'mobile' makes this more of an issue than usual.

It certainly isn't news that Microsoft goes through development fads about as fast as it can dream up acronyms for them; but, with desktop and server cases, it has usually been possible to keep the offspring of a now-deprecated fad limping along for years after it is officially killed. And, while it is hardly the most glamorous part of the technology industry, a lot of people pay the mortgage by handling various aspects of keeping ghastly legacy crap that happens to be vital to something or other up and running. And, while Microsoft never seems very happy about it, they generally have caved to demand for legacy support on the desktop and server side.

With phones, though, you can't exactly order a stack of WP8 devices from Verizon and then downgrade them to WM6 to support your line-of-business whatever. You are essentially stuck with whatever version is shipping at the moment, with the possibility that some of your older devices might get updates, maybe. That isn't an environment where you can be nearly as comfortable that you will be able to just-make-it-work even after your chosen platform has officially been killed.

Re:Well, Yeah (2)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 2 years ago | (#41821249)

Those of us who've seen what happens when we invest time and money in Microsoft's other pet project platforms aren't about to jump on Windows Phone 8.

Fair enough... but you're not the only type of agent in the market: There's programmers fresh out of college who can't find regular work and decide instead to download an SDK and make something, and don't know any better.

Re:Well, Yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821593)

That's why the existing 'app stores' are full of buggy, unpolished crud.

Re:Well, Yeah (1)

AmazingRuss (555076) | about 2 years ago | (#41821653)

Pretty much. The only way I'd make WP8 apps is if MS paid me up front to do so.

Shout out to Governor Christie (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41820857)

Way to go brother. Telling Fox News to get stuffed, praising Obama and giving Romney the middle finger on a photo op. Maybe Paul Ryan can fake wash the dishes after Christie's next meal.

FORWARD 2012!

Not enough fart apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41820879)

There can never be too many fart apps. Fart!

Gone Are The Days... (5, Insightful)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 2 years ago | (#41820889)

Gone are the days when your company supported Microsoft's latest or else .

Today, there is no or else. Microsoft is just another player in a large market.

Re:Gone Are The Days... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821029)

No they're not M$ is TOTALLY EVIL! More eviler than Apple, Samsung, and Satan combined.

I suspect you may be a shill.

Re:Gone Are The Days... (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#41821037)

Well, especially in the phone and tablet markets. I think they could still say "or else" pertaining to the desktop, although it would be feebler than in the past.

Re:Gone Are The Days... (4, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 years ago | (#41821179)

I'm afraid that it still depends on what market we're talking about.

In mobile and tablets, you're absolutely correct. MSFT is a bit player at best here, and you'd get more marketshare by supporting RIM.

In server-side software, maybe, depending on what your product does.

On workstations, you're still stuck with supporting them if you want more than 10-15% of the total market. I don't think that's going to change much for awhile still, at least not unless/until Windows 8 completely pisses off enough people to knock Microsoft's marketshare on desk/laptops down enough (and even then most will just go back to Windows 7, just like Vista users knocking back to XP).

Re:Gone Are The Days... (1)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 2 years ago | (#41821205)

Gone are the days when your company supported Microsoft's latest or else .

Corporate IT just called. They want to have a word with you about that comment in one of the meeting rooms on that empty and unused floor with no security cameras. Microsoft may not have that kind of pull for smart phones, but when it comes to Windows and Office, you bet your sweet ass it's supported "or else".

Re:Gone Are The Days... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about 2 years ago | (#41821713)

Even with the monopoly, supporting the "latest" is not really a requirement. If anything, it's corporate IT that's pulling Microsoft back and forcing it to support older "legacy" software.

In companies, change is managed and occasionally resisted. The resistance aspect is especially true if there's extra money involved.

Herp? (4, Insightful)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | about 2 years ago | (#41820911)

It's no surprise. Generally, companies sell "apps" to make money. As of August, Microsoft and other small fry mobile OS's combined represented a whopping 0.6% of mobile device OS's. What's more, that number has declined by almost 50% from a year ago. Why spend time and money developing for a platform that appears to be dying. Developers will probably wait to see if the current rev MS os can turn that trend around before spending more time and money on the platform.

Source: Gartner [gartner.com]

Re:Herp? (4, Funny)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#41821069)

It's no surprise. Generally, companies sell "apps" to make money. As of August, Microsoft and other small fry mobile OS's combined represented a whopping 0.6% of mobile device OS's. What's more, that number has declined by almost 50% from a year ago. Why spend time and money developing for a platform that appears to be dying. Developers will probably wait to see if the current rev MS os can turn that trend around before spending more time and money on the platform.

Source: Gartner [gartner.com]

Well, they're all looking at it wrong. When Windows 8 phones are released they're going to dominate the market. Developers would be wise to get on board early.

....nah, I don't believe it either.

Re:Herp? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821073)

No. Companies practically give away apps so that they can steal/exploit users' personal information and use that to make money. This is the 21st century business model.

Re:Herp? (1)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | about 2 years ago | (#41821673)

Now I was going to ask "what use would that be" but then I thought. If you want to know differences between Microsoft associates and normal people then put your app on Win phone as well. There will be pretty limited market for the data but I guess antitrust lawyers, Google and IBM will pay well for that data.

Re:Herp? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821495)

Windows Mobile is not Windows Phone.

Developers (5, Interesting)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 2 years ago | (#41820913)

The correct response to this kind of press is to say "We have developers! Tons of developers! They're falling out of the sky, honest!" The smart phone market long ago stopped being about features and now turns on the number of apps. All the phones have GPS, megapixel cameras, touch screen interface, etc. In terms of hardware features, they're largely the same. So they have to differentiate themselves on the basis of apps. And what kinds of apps are popular? Games.

People loooove screwing off at work with Angry Birds and Farmville. So the smart phone market is not that much different from the game console market in that regard: Sales of hardware are based on how many new and exciting games are available for that platform. Now yes, it is in reality not that simple -- the app market isn't just games, but the idea is the same: The number of popular apps is strongly correlated to the number of units shipping. So regardless of how many developers the platform has, Microsoft needs to be out there screaming "Developers! We have them! Oh yes, developers, developers, developers!" Preferrably without monkey man on stage saying it, but even a dancing fat guy is better than nothing.

That's the only strategy that will work if Microsoft doesn't want another dead on arrival platform launch. Sorta like, say, the Dreamcast.

Re:Developers (2)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#41821095)

> The smart phone market long ago stopped being about features and now turns on the number of apps.

And this is as it should be. It's the inevitable transition from "what it is" to "what can I do with it".

Obligatory (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821147)

Developers? Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers...

I make no apologies

Re:Developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821255)

Actually, Microsoft should do what they did for X-Box and just buy developers. You do realize that Halo was intended to be a Mac OS only title at release with an eventual release on Windows. This was back in the hay day of Windows as the gaming platform for multiplayer online FPS and Apple was doing better but not great. Microsoft understood that they needed killer Apps or games in this case. They saw what Bungie was making and decide to snap them up. I think it really is what made the X-Box a success. It really did break my heart as a Mac OS fool back in the day.... Hell, I haven't bought an apple product since or an X-Box or even played any HALO games. But this is what MS must do find the next big mobile GAME buy the company and tell people you want gamy you buy this first.

Re:Developers (1)

Shoten (260439) | about 2 years ago | (#41821331)

The smart phone market long ago stopped being about features and now turns on the number of apps.

Smartphones have stopped being basic embedded devices and are full-fledged platforms. The apps *are* the features, and thus the number of apps directly affects the features. Nobody who is even the least bit savvy runs just the applications built into a phone, or even just apps that replace existing features that are built in. The most popular apps are usually either games, or things that provide some unique and clever functionality that nobody else had thought of yet, like Shazam.

Re:Developers (2)

gman003 (1693318) | about 2 years ago | (#41821607)

You know, when you phrase it like that, you make it sound like Nintendo could release a best-selling smartphone...

Re:Developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821953)

Nintindo should have released a phone 10 years ago when 2G cell phones started shipping with color screens. Its not like the 8 bit games take much CPU power or even bandwidth.

Hell, they could have even done it with the game boy games on black and white screens.

Re:Developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821659)

That's what's strange. With the Xbox brand fully behind Windows Phone you'd figure that people would be buying the devices for the games.

Made $4 with WP7 (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41820927)

After three months of effort writing a free app for Windows Phone 7, so far I have made a total of $4 from Microsoft's advertising system. This is from the top-rated app in its category. Needless to say, I won't be writing any apps for Windows Phone 8 unless I'm being paid to do so.

Re:Made $4 with WP7 (3, Funny)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#41821109)

$$Profit!!$$

Re:Made $4 with WP7 (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821253)

Ads suck. You are telling me that Microsoft's platform actually has few of them? I like!

Re:Made $4 with WP7 (0, Troll)

narcc (412956) | about 2 years ago | (#41821303)

Maybe going the ad-supported route was the wrong way to monetize.

But go ahead and blame Microsoft for your mistakes.

Re:Made $4 with WP7 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821369)

Perhaps your app sucks ass. When people try to compare the monetization of a platform that's been around for 2 years vs 6 with the iPhone, being a fanboi is really becoming laughable.

Re:Made $4 with WP7 (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | about 2 years ago | (#41821935)

Well, that's kind of useless without a comparision to the amount a top rated app in apple's app store or google play makes. I'm guessing more than $4, but I don't know I've never clicked a mobile add before. I never understood why anyone would click an add. None of them are relivant to me.

Excuse me? Windows 8 is trash. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41820937)

I'm sorry but Windows 8 is trash for users. I've yet to meet a single person I know who has used Windows 8 and liked it. This ranges from server admins down to grandma with her choice of tablet. Windows keeps forgetting it's audience. They did an amazing job with Windows 7 but now it's like uncle fester without his meds they are trying to take on Apple with an inferior product.

What windows truly needs is to get rid of a certain Executive (*cough*SteveBallmer*cough*) and get one with his head on straight. Focus on your core business. Focus on your strengths. Apple will beat you like a red headed step child if you take them head on. Focus on corporate/enterprise level support. Meet those needs because apple sure as hell isn't trying to.

Re:Excuse me? Windows 8 is trash. (1)

m1ndcrash (2158084) | about 2 years ago | (#41821067)

Windows 8 will succeed on tablet devices or those double sided laptops they advertise. It's faster than 7. No doubt 7 is a great product, 8 is looking forward to occupy touch screen interface niche where MS is lacking in presence.

Re:Excuse me? Windows 8 is trash. (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 years ago | (#41821219)

I've seen exactly two in-the-wild. One was carried by a Microsoft sales rep last year when the EA was renewed, and the other by a Microsoft consultant who stopped by to perform the free SQL Server performance assessment that we got for renewing that EA.

Re:Excuse me? Windows 8 is trash. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821449)

I love my Windows 8 machine, I put Start8 on my desktop and left the touch interface in tact on my Surface...it works quite well. Windows 8 is significantly faster than 7 in various areas.

Windows Phone 8 hasn't been out for a whole DAY (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41820951)

And already Apple fanboys are submitting shit like this here

Re:Windows Phone 8 hasn't been out for a whole DAY (1, Funny)

m1ndcrash (2158084) | about 2 years ago | (#41821081)

They are scared. Better things are coming out then their precious iPhones.

Re:Windows Phone 8 hasn't been out for a whole DAY (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 2 years ago | (#41821145)

And already Apple fanboys are submitting shit like this here

That's silly - One must not be a manure farmer to know a turd when they see it, polished though it may be.

Titanic fails to attract Passengers (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41820953)

Windows 8 has been a PR disaster for a while now and it has the reek of failure all over it. Microsoft is really good at a lot of things but selling their damn products to the average consumer isn't one of them.

Now that I've had a bit of experience with 8 I like some things but the point is I shouldn't be discovering stuff like this at arms reach, they have to start making things sexy if they want to attract users, which in turn attracts developers.

No surprise here (5, Insightful)

JDG1980 (2438906) | about 2 years ago | (#41820963)

""Microsoft has promised that cross-platform development across the 8s â" from Windows 8 on a desktop to Windows Phone 8 â" will be a simple matter, but that's still not enough to get some developers moving on Windows Phone 8 support."

Bah. Microsoft can't just declare Year Zero and expect everyone to drop everything and follow them. If you are targeting desktop/laptop users, you'd have to be crazy to write for Metro at this point, when the overwhelming majority of your users are still on Windows 7 or even Windows XP. If you want to pitch your software to mobile users, then you can get a much larger audience by targeting iOS and/or Android.

In other words, writing for Metro will give you access to three platforms... all of which have virtually nonexistent market share at this point. And Microsoft has shown on several occasions in the past that they're willing to pull the plug on various developer technologies if they're falling behind, or just if the business strategy has changed. Ballmer and company can't see this because they are in love with their products, themselves, and the sounds of their own voices. But from the point of view of an independent developer, jumping into the Windows 8 pool now doesn't pay off – the most rational move is simply to wait and see what happens.

I suspect that Microsoft's actual response to this will be to bribe certain developers to port particular desirable applications to Metro. To an extent this may have already happened.

Re:No surprise here (4, Informative)

Animats (122034) | about 2 years ago | (#41821123)

And Microsoft has shown on several occasions in the past that they're willing to pull the plug on various developer technologies if they're falling behind, or just if the business strategy has changed.

Ah, yes. Softimage, PlaysForSure, Silverlight, Zune... On each, the plug was pulled suddenly; they weren't slowly phased out.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Microsoft backs off from desktop Metro. Enterprise customers hate it and want it to just go away.

Re:No surprise here (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41821149)

I disagree. Many developers who snubbed Vista and then Windows 7 and only supported XP are having their customers switch to competitors!

Windows 8 sucking or not is too large of a marketshare to ignore. The customer determines what you support. Not yourself. Windows 8 mobile maybe crappy in terms of marketshare but every new pc that most people and businesses buy will come with it. Most employers are small believe it or not and do not have a dedicated IT departmetn with images of ancient platforms like yours does. They buy a pc at Staples and install the software themselves and get to work. If your corporate app wont support them they will simply buy from someone else who will.

What MS fucked up on is not making metro binary and source compatible between Windows 8/RT and Windows 8 mobile. The kernels between all 3 plataforms are identical. No difference whatsoever. Windows 9 may fix this if it not too late.

Was $99 now only $8 for a short time. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41820965)

They just announced access to the developer platform will be $8 for the next month or so, down from $99:
http://blogs.windows.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-new-windows-phone-8-developer-platform.aspx

i dont see the problem (5, Insightful)

pointyhat (2649443) | about 2 years ago | (#41820967)

Apart from about 100 apps per platform, the rest are crap universally between android, IOS and winphone. Why is "only" 100,000 apps a problem? the stats are absolutely meaningless.

Re:i dont see the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821277)

Agreed. Quantify != Quality.

But now that Apple has competition, it's driving the conversation by poining to number of apps.

On Android, when I search for anything there is only 1-2 apps worth it and the other 50 are crap.

Re:i dont see the problem (1, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41821293)

Apart from about 100 apps per platform, the rest are crap universally between android, IOS and winphone. Why is "only" 100,000 apps a problem? the stats are absolutely meaningless.

Windows simply doesn't have top tier Applications either. If you were comparing top 100 applications I would care more...but I don't. I personally believe choice matters. I have even changed my main Apps browser; music player; Video player several times. I own 80+ applications, and belong to 4 Application Stores, and I'm not a heavy user. The bottom line is though your like ly to get a higher number of top tier applications on a platform with the greatest number of Applications...the reality is very few top tire apps find themselves on Microsoft platform at all.

Re:i dont see the problem (4, Informative)

bloodhawk (813939) | about 2 years ago | (#41821785)

If you take a look they actually have the vast majority of top tier apps as well. last look it was something like 90% of the top tier apps.

Re:i dont see the problem (-1, Troll)

Shoten (260439) | about 2 years ago | (#41821341)

Buy a Windows Phone, and then tell me that the number of useful apps is equal between the three platforms. Good luck with that...been there, done that, know better.

Re:i dont see the problem (3, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about 2 years ago | (#41821523)

The flippant answer is that I absolutely need 7 different fart pianos. Some have different pitches, and some make squishier sounds. I'm composing my masterpiece of farts. ;-)

The more serious answer is that if people perceive there's not as much software available for Win 8 phones, they're not going to buy one. If nobody is going to buy one, WTF would a developer invest his time into writing apps for it? I'd be surprised if anything more than tiny fraction of all mobiles in win 8 yet.

The reality is, Microsoft is coming to the game two years after everybody, proclaiming they have the best game in town, and the wondering why they only hear crickets in return.

Re:i dont see the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821525)

Granted, there's a ton of redundancy – how many weather or newsfeed apps does one person need? – but it points to availability and developer support

It's the simplest metric, but it's still a decent indication of the overall developer interest...perhaps there's also 6x less "good" apps on winphone.

Re:i dont see the problem (1)

narcc (412956) | about 2 years ago | (#41821537)

I don't get it either. 100k Apps seems adequate to me -- especially for a new platform.

I don't know where the 100k figure comes from though. According to Business Insider [businessinsider.com] they had close to 10k apps at launch, though the store was growing by about 500 apps per day. (They've got about 180 days to go at that rate to make the 100k mark)

Of course, most of the apps are still garbage -- on every platform. It would be nice to see multiple, competing, app stores on various platforms to help weed out the crap.

Re:i dont see the problem (0)

mspohr (589790) | about 2 years ago | (#41821567)

Right!
"64 apps should be enough for anyone!"

Wow, all that one day later (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41820969)

It's amazing that this is somehow relevant just a single day after the official WP8 announcement.

It's too early to already be a slow news day...

I am writing a Slashdot app (5, Funny)

Spy Handler (822350) | about 2 years ago | (#41821047)

for Windows 8, I am beta testing it now.

Oh and Frist Post

Best Tools, lack of "Hip" factor (5, Insightful)

erik umenhofer (782) | about 2 years ago | (#41821061)

I know this is an on-going flame war, but with Expression Software and Visual Studio 2010/2012, Microsoft has some of the best tools out there for building mobile applications. Throw in testing tools, and you are at the top of the class. After using the tools and marketplace for 2 years now, I can say a couple things.

*The marketplace has come a long way. It is getting better every day. It used to be a real chore to use year or so ago. It is a lot more streamlined and clean.

*The bad press recently around marketplace submissions is a crap shoot. I've experienced similar things, but also I've experienced quick easy submissions. It honestly depends on the tester. If things seem to be going bad, there is always a manager you can contact to get things going.

*Lets be honest too. The iOS and Android marketplaces are FILLED with pure crap applications. I'm not saying that the Windows store is any better, but comparing numbers isn't fair because, most of those apps are useless and are never downloaded.

*If you know Java or Obj-C, not many people are willing or paid to jump into C#. I'm definitely not interested in learning a new language at this point in my career.

* Lastly, I think the main problem is traditional Microsoft fear/hatred. I have talked to more "hip" iOS teams that make cooler apps for android and iOS. They showed zero desire to even make an effort to make any apps for Windows Phone. The attitude I saw a lot was just pure bandwagon hatred. "Meh"

Re:Best Tools, lack of "Hip" factor (2)

Shoten (260439) | about 2 years ago | (#41821481)

I don't think the problem is the lack of hip factor.

Question:
What's the motto of a developer who focuses on "hip factor" above market size?

Answer:
"Would you like fries with that?"

There are many problems facing a developer writing for Windows Phone 8. Windows CE/Phone 6/Phone 6.5/Phone 7 have always had poor uptake and very upset users. I used to work for HP, and before they bought Palm, every HP smartphone ran Windows Phone, and that's all that was issued to people. To a man, everyone *hated* them with a vengeance. Eventually, we all broke the rules and BYOB'ed iPhones...nobody got in trouble because EVERYONE did it. And I mean, freaking everyone. And this is not news. So Microsoft is at a natural disadvantage, out of the gate, since there's this relatively large base of users who either had a Windows Phone and hated it or know someone who did. Add the talk/rumors about marketplace issues, the fact that it's one more platform to support, on top of iOS and Android, and I don't see why having good dev tools for the platform would be all that great a balancing factor. The tools are great, sure...but so what? The tools have absolutely nothing to do with the demand for the platform the apps would run on.

Compatibility with METRO (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41821097)

It would be really nice if it were binary, or perhaps source compatible with Windows 8/RT.

I can't see why not? There is not enough marketshare for people to care right now but Windows on the desktop you simply can't ignore. Fat binaries is how Apple accomplished and a fat Metro applet with x86/arm that can run on a phone should have been thought of in 2010 since that is where MS wanted to go.

I mean the kernel is freaking identical between win 8/RT and Windows mobile!

Re:Compatibility with METRO (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about 2 years ago | (#41821345)

fat binaries arn't needed unless you are selling via physical media, if you are distributing via download you can use a simply architecture or version check and download the proper binary. if you have fat binaries you will quickly hit data caps on current mobile data plans.

Re:Compatibility with METRO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821467)

If they provided a good way for 3rd party apps to work with Windows 8 desktop apps then they would also be providing a good way for android and apple apps to work with Windows 8 desktop apps.

Re:Compatibility with METRO (1)

darkgrayknight (1679662) | about 2 years ago | (#41821867)

Not sure where you get that the kernel is identical. It is not like they compiled exactly the same source for each, there are differences. For one the Windows Phone 8 has to run Windows Phone 7 apps, so there are some differences there. Windows RT has some differences from Windows 8, they are built for different processors. There are enough core components that and app built for any one of them can be compiled to work with the others, but it doesn't just happen if the application is more complicated and uses components outside the core set.

Two is company.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821157)

Three is a crowd. Shame really.

78% of slashdot summary contain glaring errors (1)

zill (1690130) | about 2 years ago | (#41821173)

A survey by IDC and Appcelerator found 78% of Android developers were 'very interested' in programming for Android smartphones

Wait, what?

Re:78% of slashdot summary contain glaring errors (2)

AmazingRuss (555076) | about 2 years ago | (#41821715)

The other 22% have actually made android apps, and don't want to any more because of device fragmentation and poor sales.

Mostly on MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821211)

They just released the tools yesterday. Developers have known for months that win phone 7 apps would not carry over, so why would you build one? This is mostly MS fault for being late, and switching strategies mid stream. Not to mention the poor market share. The market is still open, we just passed 50% penetration, now that they have shipped we will see.

Microsoft is where programming languages go to die (4, Insightful)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | about 2 years ago | (#41821231)

VB6, Winforms, dying Silverlight, J# ... Nothing quite says, "I don't give a shit about my developer base or their customers" like dropping a platform and not even making a token attempt to provide an upgrade path that doesn't include the word, "rewrite" even when doing so would be technically trivial.

Any wonder that nobody is much interested in committing to a platform that will change the next time some genius at Microsoft decides to change the world again? Used to be that you'd at least get a decade out of a platform. Those were the days.

Hey Microsoft, ARE YOU LISTENING? Oh, wait. The start button that thousands of developers on the forums wanted to retain is gone too. I guess that means, "No."

Hi Mr. Linux!

I can tell you why. (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821381)

Desktops/laptops = Windows 7.

Tablets/phones = Android.

Windows 8 is a bloated gas bag attempt at trying to force a market into buying a product that is not only a step backwards, but its also a closed minded pile of shit with that windows marketplace crap, it does nothing to improve gaming experince, its clumsy to use at best and basically just a piece of shit operating system.

They wont get developers for it really because no one wants to wants to waste, time, energy and resources on operating system that sucks and the alternatives are far superior with a larger user base.

Youd be a retard to sink time and money into windows 8.

Developers developers developers... (2)

whitelabrat (469237) | about 2 years ago | (#41821385)

Developers developers developers...

If it was a flex phone with built in projector (1)

na1led (1030470) | about 2 years ago | (#41821401)

I might consider, but going to a proprietary platform with limited apps is not going to do it for me. Microsoft needs to give us something no one else has.

Haters Gonna Hate (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41821413)

I remember when people were bashing XP because windows 2k was so much better, and Vista after XP, which was really not too different from Windows 7. So it's not surprising to see that people cling to the status quo and bash a new system.

I went to a Microsoft store in Orange County and played with a Windows 8 tablet for a while and I'd say calling it Windows 7+ is about accurate enough for most people. It's basically Windows 7 with an added touchscreen interface. Nevermind that many benchmarks show that Windows 8 is about 10% faster across the board than Windows 7.

I know it's hard to change your set ways, but now and then change is actually an improvement, and Windows 8 is one of those times.

Get off your lawns!

Their own fault (4, Interesting)

hsmith (818216) | about 2 years ago | (#41821497)

I wanted to port our App a month ago.

Nope, no access to the SDK, besides the lucky few MS chose to grant access to.

If you want developers to build for it, you have to provide them the tools.

I wonder if they eat their dog food. (1)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | about 2 years ago | (#41821633)

There was some apocryphal story about Microsoft developers seen with the ubiquitous Apple iPod headphones would be have choice words (and probably no chairs) thrown at them by Steve Ballmar. Not sure if that was true. I wonder if Microsoft has mandated the use of Win 8 phones (or zune) as the corporate standard?

If not, why not?

Really? Don't say. (2)

Kynde (324134) | about 2 years ago | (#41821695)

Windows Phone 8 Having Trouble Attracting Developers

I didn't rtfa, hell, I even skipped the summary. This is just about the most breaking and surprising news story I've seen all year.

Not exactly Microsoft's fault (3, Insightful)

TejWC (758299) | about 2 years ago | (#41821707)

Even if MS made the best phone OS ever created, it would still be hard to get many developers interested. The "mindshare" of developers is all in Android and iOS. Even 2 years ago, if you were at a mobile developer's conference, nobody would care about what you had to say unless it had something to do with Android or iOS. That is one of the reasons why nobody cared about MeeGo or WebOS even though they were both open source.

Windows phone 8 has my interest but... (4, Insightful)

WaffleMonster (969671) | about 2 years ago | (#41821757)

I think it is correct to call out the promise of portability between windows 8ish platforms as irrelevant because currrently there are no apps or user base for any of it.

However the core advantage for WP8 is not compatibility with windows but compatibility with existing C/C++ codebases used across all platforms. WP8 allows native code and offers a much more capable and complete API.

WP8 makes it easier to port codebases from other systems as they no longer need to be totally rewritten to some other language that will run atop a .NET CLR.

Android has fragmentation and security issues which makes it a pain to develop for without dealing with platform garbage.

iphone locks you into carriers, no choice of hardware vendors, form factors or ability to install apps without authorization from a central authority.

If MS gets the development environment and security picture right out of the box which at the 30k ft level it seems they have with jails and choosers as trusted go-betweens to protected or shared resources I could see it being a useful platform.

Some of the things they have like deep integration with voice recognition into applications to ask applications questions from a voice interface and deep VoIP integration seem very cool to me.

What I fear will happen is that MS will not open up their platform and allow third party apps to be installed external to the appstore or they will in some other way thru privacy violations and "to the cloud" make the platform sufficiently unappealing to me that I will not bother writing anything for it.

For exmple WP7 has no way for me to locally sync contacts without uploading them to some microsoft server.

There is no way to connect to the appstore and forbid Microsoft from wiping my phone or finding my location because these levers are controlled by a web site hosted by Microsoft not by levers in the device itself.

I can't even use the GPS without it leaking data over my data plan that I pay for to croudsource their a tower/wifi skyhook type system.

I can't use wifi without it sending NLA type crap to MS servers I have no way of turning off.

I hate this kind of bullshit shit.. it is a large part of the reason I am not using windows phone. I just want a device that will do what I want it to do and not the endless streams of vendor bullshit that seems to be baked into all modern mobile platforms.

At the very least I demand a permissionless environment so I can distribute apps myself if I choose to.

Finally I demand a SDK that does not require me to have windows 8 to develop wp8 apps. In my opinion Windows 8 sucks ass and I refuse to waste my time with it.

How many OS'scan a market support (2)

strangeattraction (1058568) | about 2 years ago | (#41821759)

What is the chance I can make an energy efficient application for mobile technology if I had to make it cross platform. I will argue that my cost go up for each OS I support. My guess is 3 is one too many, so M$ is doomed at this point. Supportig iOS and Android is economical since they already have market share. Risking a third will only kill your profitability. It is up to M$ to provide the incentive by either paying for great apps, providing a market were margins are higher or giving away their devices so that developers can have enough customers to make money. As much as I have had a l dislike/hate relationship with M$ in the past I will be sad to see them go. I only hope that Apple will continue on their current path and become the company to replace my dislike/hate relationship with M$. I can only hope.

Wrong goal Microsoft (2)

gr8_phk (621180) | about 2 years ago | (#41821843)

cross-platform development across the 8s – from Windows 8 on a desktop to Windows Phone 8 – will be a simple matter

People developing mobile apps don't care about ease of going between those platforms. They care about covering all the mobile devices which means you need to help with them to run across: iOS, Android, and Windows Phone. Given the momentum the others have, who is going to make the effort to port apps to WP8? There are still nice apps that haven't crossed the iOS/Android chasm and you want to add another big leap? Dream on.

How much work would it have been to port the dalvik VM to Windows Phone to enable existing android apps? Now THAT would be doing developers a favor.

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