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Microsoft Reportedly Working On Its Own Smartphone

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the seeing-what-sticks dept.

Microsoft 215

According to a (paywalled) report in the Wall Street Journal, Microsoft is experimenting with its own smartphone design. "Officials at some of Microsoft's parts suppliers, who declined to be named, said the Redmond, Wash.-based company is testing a smartphone design but isn't sure if a product will go into mass production." The article continues: "If Microsoft pushes ahead with its mobile phone, it would underscore how far Microsoft has moved away from its long-standing practice of making software and leaving decisions about design, features and marketing of the computing hardware to partners such as Hewlett-Packard or Samsung Electronics. ... As it does so, Microsoft pulls from a modified playbook of Apple—whose hardware-plus-software approach Microsoft officials long have scorned. ... Smartphones running Microsoft's two-year-old Windows Phone operating software for cellphones haven't sold well, and Microsoft may want to leave itself an option to test whether its own phone would spur sales."

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MS killed the Nokia star (5, Interesting)

faragon (789704) | about 2 years ago | (#41859491)

That's terrible for Nokia. The few chances for its survival, IMO, now are gone :-S

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (5, Insightful)

lobiusmoop (305328) | about 2 years ago | (#41859573)

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (3, Insightful)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | about 2 years ago | (#41860595)

Nokia's recent history is more like "kidnap, ravage, dump." Extending? Embracing? Nope, nope.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (3, Informative)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41859643)

In case you are wondering what Elop thought of this news.

"in a conference call two weeks ago, Nokia CEO Stephen Elop said that he would welcome such a rival. Elop said that a Microsoft smartphone would act as a “stimulant” to all companies making Windows Phone 8 devices, but added that he wasn’t aware of any plans to do so." http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/microsoft-smartphone-windows-phone-8-98096 [techweekeurope.co.uk]

Whatever you think of Steve Ballmer how he for the record got for a bargain the most expensive advertising campaign in history for next to nothing, and a patent cartel with Nokia, and it seems things are unlikely to change in the future.

I'm astonished the Finnish Government has done nothing all I can find is this quote http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/us-finnish-government-wont-buy-nokia-sha-idUSBRE85J15V20120620?irpc=932 [reuters.com] "This is not our business. We are developing Finland into a country where companies can do well, but this is not the way of support along which the government will go,"

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (4, Interesting)

base2op (226729) | about 2 years ago | (#41859807)

What's funny to me is that Elop went all-in on the Windows Phone strategy because he didn't want Nokia to be just another Android device maker. Now they're just another Windows Phone maker.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (5, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41860221)

What's funny to me is that Elop went all-in on the Windows Phone strategy because he didn't want Nokia to be just another Android device maker. Now they're just another Windows Phone maker.

The reasoning made no sense then. The weirder one was they didn't hedge there bets with something else, Android and Meego being the obvious choices.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (4, Insightful)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about 2 years ago | (#41860953)

even hedge bets with Symbian and featurephones would have been good enough, they were selling very well until the pillock stood up on his burning platform and, well, pushed the company off.

I'm sure he'll still get his million dollar bonus when they sack him though.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (3, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41861091)

Meego didn't have the developer ecosystem.

I wonder if there is anything Nokia could have done? I see his point with Android and since Windows Phone is a new OS with MS providing a huge developer base and tools not to mention hope that it might be compatible with METRO be a boon.

Investors hate people who say it is a hot market I want in!!! That makes them yawn as consumers prefer other players who are already in psychologically. Symbian didn't have the developer support or ecosystem either or the mass market either.

Picking Windows Mobile kind of made sense and was a big bet for these reasons. Problem is it never took off. If Windows Phone did take off Nokia would be riding it as they are Microsoft's preferred phone provider. Sadly, in the end they got screwed over by MS just like everyone else. MS is a very non trustworthy company to be foolish enough to trust your business too.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (4, Insightful)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 2 years ago | (#41860241)

He decided he didn't want to be part of an expanding market if he had to share it (and, granted, Android isn't doing that great for people not in the front rank). So now he's in a dying market. And he has to share it.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (3, Insightful)

oztiks (921504) | about 2 years ago | (#41860589)

He's right and the truth of the matter is with the exception of Acer who has basically signed its own death warrant by not consigning to windows will be suddenly left in the cold. Push vendors to create competitive devices by brandishing your own is a good strategy.

Sorry guys, nobody cares what OS is on a phone. Only Geeks do and normal people will by Nokia because its a good brand and if half the devices out there run the same system (like what surface+windows8 is doing) users will just buy it without a care to what a tech review has to say.

Nokia phones rock, they are even better with an OS like WP on it, I really do hate Microsoft with a passion but I cannot knock what they've done with WP7 and the Luima 900. Upon using a Nokia phone you get one important thing you miss with the iPhone, that is its a phone, not a handheld computer with a gsm module tacked on to it which even after all these years is what the iPhone still looks and feels like.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (3, Interesting)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41861121)

People do care. Average users as they want something that looks cool that their friends use and has all the cool apps they are familiar with.

I spoke to a phone salesmen and he told me Nokia has the highest returns in his store. The Nokia luima actually and didn't recommend it!

That says a lot right there.

It is the classic example of MBAs trying to get ahead by staying behind the competition with excessive cost cutting. Not trying to make a better phone to gain more marketshare which is what Apple and Samsung is doing. Though the new Galaxy 3 is cheaper and breaks easier unlike the IPhone 5 and older Galaxies sadly.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861159)

I really do hate Microsoft with a passion

Yeah, we all hate our employers. Get over it shillboy.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (1)

dmbasso (1052166) | about 2 years ago | (#41859653)

It will be really funny if they bring back Nokia's CEO to manage this new failure^Wsmartphone product.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (0)

hendridm (302246) | about 2 years ago | (#41859951)

Agreed. Nokia == BlackBerry. Device manufacturer means NOTHING in the mobile marketplace - operating system does!

Windows mobile is terrible and will continue to be terrible, so I'm not sure that it was much of a lifeline to begin with.

The market wants iOS and Android. Nobody else matters. Microsoft just has a lot of money so they pretend that people care about them as a mobile OS provider. They would make more money by manufacturing Android phones.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (5, Interesting)

FuegoFuerte (247200) | about 2 years ago | (#41860383)

I'll take on your points one by one, and disagree on all of them:

Agreed. Nokia == BlackBerry.
That's quite a stretch... BlackBerry == early smartphone maker who has since refused to innovate and even refused for many years to use touchscreens. Nokia == early maker of "dumb phones" who, while being early to the smart phone game, never really did well in it, resting on their success in the dumb phone market. They have now woken up and started to pursue smart phones in a serious manner.

Device manufacturer means NOTHING in the mobile marketplace - operating system does!
Samsung is doing fantastic using Android, while HTC is very rapidly losing market share, and Motorola is a Has-Been. Device manufacturer means NOTHING? Please... I think HTCs shareholders would have some rather strong words for you.

Windows mobile is terrible and will continue to be terrible, so I'm not sure that it was much of a lifeline to begin with.
Have you actually used Windows Phone? (I mean 7, 7.5 or 8, not the old 6.5 or before). It's the only one of the major contendors that doesn't look like a smartphone swallowed Windows 95 and then puked icons all over itself. It's incredibly stable, and has a lot of built-ins that make a lot of the most common smart-phone tasks very simple and fast.

The market wants iOS and Android. Nobody else matters. Microsoft just has a lot of money so they pretend that people care about them as a mobile OS provider. They would make more money by manufacturing Android phones.
A lot of people I talk to want an alternative to the somewhat stale iOS and craptastic Android. I think Microsoft actually does have a chance, and with the amount they're investing in Windows Phone I think it's a pretty good chance at that. Oh yeah, and they already make a lot of money off Android phones... Love 'em or hate 'em, patents are a beautiful thing if you're on the right side of them.

Microsoft has made some serious mistakes in mobile, but they're hardly out of the game.

Note: In the interest of full disclosure, I currently work at Microsoft, though nowhere near the Phone or OS divisions. I do hope to see Microsoft succeed in the phone world, partly because I own stock in both Microsoft and Nokia, but my coworkers would tell you I have no problem bashing decisions I disagree with at the company.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41860833)

"It's incredibly stable, and has a lot of built-ins that make a lot of the most common smart-phone tasks very simple and fast."
I totally agree. I have been using WP7 since it came out and love it. As you mentioned stable, fast, simple to use and packed with features. Sadly most people only bash it without trying it.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861029)

Yea but its from ms.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861305)

Samsung is doing fantastic using Android, while HTC is very rapidly losing market share, and Motorola is a Has-Been. Device manufacturer means NOTHING? Please... I think HTCs shareholders would have some rather strong words for you.

Perhaps that's his point? Nobody gives a shit if their smartphone is manufactured by HTC or Samsung or LG. They just want a swell device that runs Android well!

Have you actually used Windows Phone? (I mean 7, 7.5 or 8, not the old 6.5 or before). It's the only one of the major contendors that doesn't look like a smartphone swallowed Windows 95

"Windows 6.5 was crap. Windows 7+ is the future!!1"

A lot of people I talk to want an alternative to the somewhat stale iOS and craptastic Android.

Have you used a Nexus? They are brilliant.

Note: In the interest of full disclosure, I currently work at Microsoft,

Thank you for your disclosure. I appreciate it (really).

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861357)

You own stock in Microsoft and Nokia? I feel sorry for you.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (4, Interesting)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#41859989)

That's terrible for Nokia. The few chances for its survival, IMO, now are gone :-S

True. But it's a logical move for Microsoft. The world has changed. The paradigm of selling an operating system at high profit margins is failing against the paradigm of giving the operating system away in order to sell devices. Microsoft can't compete with that without changing the way they do business.

Frankly, Nokia should have seen this coming.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (3, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41860173)

The problem here is that it is now going to do battle against companies who have years of experience as *hardware* manufacturers. Yes, Microsoft has some experience, but on the level of Apple or Samsung? And just how far can Microsoft intrude into the world of manufacturing before it starts stepping on the toes of OEMs? If Microsoft is just planning a few flagship devices to demonstrate Windows on smartdevices, I can understand it, though I have a hard time seeing how they can hope to make money with it, but if Microsoft is deciding, after literally decades of essentially being a software company, that now it is going to become a manufacturer, then it's entering territory it has little direct experience with, and is going to be going head to head against very big players like Apple.

I'm not saying it might not work. Who knows? Maybe in five years, it will be a major rival against Apple and the Android ecosystem. But even success in this new strategy carries risks of damaging core business units.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#41860419)

All those things are true. But succeed, fail, or eck out a meager existence, Microsoft really has no choice if they're going to play at all in this space.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (4, Interesting)

paladinsama (1831732) | about 2 years ago | (#41860277)

Nokia is the company that closed a digital store and revoked the access to all purchases to their customers. Death is an appropriate fate for them.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (3, Informative)

aristotle-dude (626586) | about 2 years ago | (#41860503)

Nokia is the company that closed a digital store and revoked the access to all purchases to their customers. Death is an appropriate fate for them.

Microsoft did the same thing when they shut down the "playsforsure" platform.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861047)

Wow! You mean a company that made a huge bet on a Microsoft platform has been stabbed in the back? [That's](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2) [never](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_1-2-3) [happened](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Graphics)[before](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyglass,_Inc.)!

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (1)

21mhz (443080) | about 2 years ago | (#41861157)

Really? Just like Surface doomed the prospects of Asus, Samsung, and the few other manufacturers who have announced Windows RT tablets?

You armchair business analysts seem to assume that there is no OEM differentiation in the Windows world. I can't see why. Lumia 920 is a very impressive device, and it's selling as of today, while the MS phone is only an industrial rumor.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861285)

This is Ballmer fucking Elop nice and slow like.

Re:MS killed the Nokia star (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861365)

Oh, I'd love to see the Photoshop thread of that!

Oh wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41859497)

I can hardly wait to buy a Microsoft vapor-phone, please tell me where to line up now so I can be first!

Market impact (3, Interesting)

Beryllium Sphere(tm) (193358) | about 2 years ago | (#41859583)

Before the first unit ships, it will damage the market for Windows Phone handsets due to the anticipation. It's an old move in the tech business to destroy a market with vaporware: usually, though, companies do it to destroy markets where they're not getting an income.

Re:Market impact (1)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about 2 years ago | (#41859991)

Pity, we could do with some new designs on the market. I could go for either something really slaad, like curvy and wrist mounted, or clunky steampunky.

Their going to call it the Xune (4, Funny)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about 2 years ago | (#41859507)

The case will be a pleasant earthy-brown color.

Re:Their going to call it the Xune (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41859639)

The iShyt.

Catchy, edgy name.

Re:Their going to call it the Xune (1)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about 2 years ago | (#41859669)

The iShyt.

Catchy, edgy name.

That one will have deeper brown tones.

Re:Their going to call it the Xune (1)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about 2 years ago | (#41859733)

Catchy, edgy name.

X-Phone would be catchy.

Re:Their going to call it the Xune (1)

the_fat_kid (1094399) | about 2 years ago | (#41859723)

and, don't forget, it will "squirt".

Re:Their going to call it the Xune (1)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about 2 years ago | (#41859761)

and, don't forget, it will "squirt"...

... from the Xune-pad "squircle" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zune_Pad [wikipedia.org]

Every cult needs a villain (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41859595)

Go on, pledge your allegiance by throwing dirt at your favorite villain before they even come out with the phone. The irony is that Apple is 10 times the scum Microsoft ever was.
 
Mod me down all you want, someone has to call you out.

Re:Every cult needs a villain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41859645)

And I'm definitely not calling you the Apple cult. Just bunch of geeks stuck in the past about Microsoft. Lastly, Linux Desktop will never catch on in mainstream and it's isn't Microsoft's fault, it's the short-coming of bunch of stubborn losers in denial.

Re:Every cult needs a villain (4, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41859897)

Linux Desktop will never catch on in mainstream and it's isn't Microsoft's fault, it's the short-coming of bunch of stubborn losers in denial.

Not sure of the relevance of that comment, but saying Windows phone will never catch on with the mainstream...and its definitely Microsofts fault, it's the short-coming of bunch of stubborn losers in denial.

I believe Linux runs on 75% of Smartphones :) where Windows Phone runs on 2%

Don't call it Linux (1)

21mhz (443080) | about 2 years ago | (#41861177)

I believe a forked, mainline-incompatible Linux kernel runs on 75% of Smartphones :)

FTFY

Re:Don't call it Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861353)

I believe No True Linux Kernel [wikipedia.org] runs on 75% of Smartphones :)

FTFTFY.

Re:Every cult needs a villain (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41859855)

Whatever you may think of Apple, the fact is that Microsoft's notion of innovation now seems to be "Do what Apple does." At some point, if Microsoft continues down this path, it's going to weaken its OEM network, which is, at the end of the day, what made Microsoft the company it is today. Without all those manufacturers throwing MS's OEM products on new units, I'd say Microsoft's attempt to become Apple better work really damned well.

Re:Every cult needs a villain (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41860483)

I'm waiting for Google to release an OEM Android OS. That will make things interesting.

Re:Every cult needs a villain (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41860499)

Microsoft's notion of innovation now seems to be "Do what Apple does."

Its a shame that they are not following Apple in direction not strategy. Be early [look to be first] with great devices, at reasonable prices...essentially create the market. They are just copying the crap only Apple could get away with...because the created the market. They should be aiming for for where Apple [should] want to be. I would have have done a xbox360 *without* gaming functionality, and sold it for manufactures to put in their TV's...the self same ones they are f***king over now. Lets watch them put Android in their TV's to make them *Smart*

Re:Every cult needs a villain (2)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 2 years ago | (#41860715)

"Do what Apple does."

Well, when Apple was sinking, they brought back Steve Jobs, the original founder, as CEO again. So . . . has anyone seen Bill Gates lately . . . ? Is he tanned, rested and bucking for another championship fight . . . ?

Re:Every cult needs a villain (3, Informative)

artor3 (1344997) | about 2 years ago | (#41861127)

Whatever you may think of Apple, the fact is that Microsoft's notion of innovation now seems to be "Do what Apple does."

That's not really true at any meaningful level. Sure, they followed Apple into the phone/tablet market, but they're not at all a copy-cat. Apple came up with a field of icons. Android copied that, and added widgets and a status bar. Apple copied those back. Microsoft came along and made something completely unique. Not necessarily better -- I haven't used it -- but definitely unique.

Microsoft also makes a video game console with a unique motion sensor, instead of copying Nintendo the way Sony did. Note that the Kinect isn't necessarily better than the Wiimote, but it's certainly different.

And Microsoft innovated with Bing, adding lots of features that Google has since mimicked: helicopter view in maps, infinite scrolling image search, preview panes on the side, flight searches, etc. Bing isn't better than Google, not by a long shot, but it's certainly not some me-too! copy.

Really, Microsoft comes up with some innovative stuff. I'm not sure why they're floundering. Maybe it's just bad marketing? But it's certainly not for lack of talented people.

Re:Every cult needs a villain (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41861227)

It's because copying your competitors and adding a few minor features isn't really innovation. Even the Xbox is still years from paying off the huge amount of money thrown at it.

Microsoft product design (2)

relikx (1266746) | about 2 years ago | (#41859621)

I am sure MS is capable of creating a smartphone design that "works well" for what that's worth, but it's pretty evident that this category is led by devices that are functional and aesthetically pleasing. I don't think MS is painted in a corner to have to make a Microsoft iPhone (Apple will probably try to sue them in any case) but in playing "offense" it would be great for Microsoft to focus on elevating or evolving the smartphone category and not try to be a "me too" device.

If they can pull this off, which would be done through a combination of intuitive/simple interface, unique features, and a robust app system they can compete. I own an Xbox and am pleasantly surprised they've been able to create a good user experience on Live.

Can they compete with a smartphone design? Sure but I wouldn't bet money on it.

Re:Microsoft product design (5, Informative)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41859757)

Apple has already stated in court that Win8's design does substantially differ from Apple's. Apple has a problem with Android. They've been unequivocal about MeeGo, Tizen, Win8, BBOS9, BB10... not being a violation of their patents.

Re:Microsoft product design (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41859883)

Apple has a problem with Android because Android is a major competitor. It has no problem with Microsoft because it does not foresee any point in the near future when Microsoft will be a major competitor.

Getting hauled into court by Apple is a sign that you're on to something. Not getting hauled into court by Apple is a sign that you're probably going to fail.

Re:Microsoft product design (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41860023)

I don't think that's true. When Apple released the iPhone they had many competing operating systems. RIM outsold them several times over. There has only been one that they have been upset with.

Re:Microsoft product design (3, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41860101)

They were the bit player in those days. Blackberry was the big guy on the block. What reason would there have been in the last two years to sue Blackberry? It's market share has collapsed quite nicely without needing to set Apple's legal hounds on it.

Re:Microsoft product design (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about 2 years ago | (#41861129)

reply to undo accidental mod bad mod

Re:Microsoft product design (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#41860475)

Apple knew with utter certitude that they would absolutely murder RIM in the marketplace, because RIM's interface was pure shit, and Apple's was (is) pure gold. As in, that's what they get by selling it. I have honestly never used iOS, because almost nobody I know has an iDevice, and also, I don't care. I have barely used new versions of Android, either, but I have used them in the emulator, because Google gives the images for free.

Re:Microsoft product design (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#41861213)

I think that's a bit rear view mirror. RIM had huge advantages in enterprise integration that Apple still doesn't quite match. I don't think Apple had anyway of knowing that RIM would get so distracted and lose years getting their new kernel to work.

The GUI wasn't a huge problem for RIM in 2007 though it certainly was an advantage for Apple.

Re:Microsoft product design (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41861169)

MS has paid Apple and are in a special patent pool together so they can sue the hell out of any and all Andriod makers and Google. Not because Android is identical. The fact is the patents are frivilous for things like clicking an icon on a screen. Or displaying an addressbook from a caller. Or showing a business on a map etc.

If you had to follow the MS/Apple patent pool you wouldn't have a phone anymore. Hundreds of patents costing $10 each make each phone that costs $40 to make $800! It is insane!

So Apple wont sue MS as they paid $30 per handset and MS agreed to help Apple take down Google which also is in Apple's interest as they view them as a threat and not MS. MS hates both and figures it is easier to take down Google first, then focus on Apple later.

So in other words they are 2 crime families making an agreement with territory, profits from drugs, and politicians and judges they can bribe, and of course an enemy that is a threat to both, where territory is the platform, profits are phones, and patents are the corrupt judges, etc.

Re:Microsoft product design (1)

theurge14 (820596) | about 2 years ago | (#41860703)

I thought it was Samsung that got hauled into court not Android.

Re:Microsoft product design (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#41860453)

I am sure MS is capable of creating a smartphone design that "works well" for what that's worth

Why? What event from history would give you that idea?

I don't think MS is painted in a corner to have to make a Microsoft iPhone (Apple will probably try to sue them in any case) but in playing "offense" it would be great for Microsoft to focus on elevating or evolving the smartphone category and not try to be a "me too" device.

The problem is, even Apple only made a nicer version of concepts that were around before.

Can they compete with a smartphone design? Sure but I wouldn't bet money on it.

No, no they can't. They might be able to buy one though.

It's not that I lack enthusiasm... (1)

RoscBottle (937276) | about 2 years ago | (#41859693)

Can't wait to read about the earthy brown Microsoft Phune on my next Android mobile. :P

I don't think so (3, Informative)

AbhiTheOne (2717543) | about 2 years ago | (#41859697)

The reasons Microsoft built Surface were:
1. MS felt the OEM Win8 tablets not upto the mark with iPad.
2. There is no dedicated OEM working on Win8 tablet.
3. MS thinks there isn't OEM with market perception comparable to Apple in tablet space.

All these issues aren't present in WP8 space, as Nokia has history of marking amazing phones, it is dedicated to WP8 and market perception of Nokia isn't bad in phone space. So it doesn't make sense for Microsoft to make their own phone.

No Win8 tablet? (1)

Radical Moderate (563286) | about 2 years ago | (#41859819)

I used a Win8 tablet prototype a couple months ago, I find it hard to believe nobody has announced one yet.

Re:No Win8 tablet? (1)

AbhiTheOne (2717543) | about 2 years ago | (#41859869)

There is no dedicated OEM working on Win8 tablet

Re:I don't think so (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41859865)

The reasons Microsoft built Surface were:
1. MS felt the OEM Win8 tablets not upto the mark with iPad.
2. There is no dedicated OEM working on Win8 tablet.
3. MS thinks there isn't OEM with market perception comparable to Apple in tablet space.

...So Microsofts failure in the tablet space was not anything to do with the inappropriate software, that limited the hardware, in both its input method, CPU, battery life etc etc.

Microsoft are in the Mobile space to soak up all that early adopter money.

Nokia has already bled dry, Microsoft have already flirting up to HTC, while Elop lives in denial.

Re:I don't think so (1)

HiThere (15173) | about 2 years ago | (#41860325)

I really doubt that Elop lives in denial. What would you expect him to say, whether he as an MS partisan or not?

My personal expectation is that he knew this was in the offing before he signed the deal with MS, and probably before he was hired by Noika. I know, however, that I have no faintest hope of proving this.

Re:I don't think so (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41860793)

I really doubt that Elop lives in denial. What would you expect him to say

I would expect him to say nothing, he didn't. He should be having a team working secretly somewhere to be ready to respond to a Microsoft announcement of a launch Phone with "People loved out Lumia range range, but wanted Android on it. This is out new range of Fuck-You-Ballmer Phones"

I don't really understand Elop thing why is nobody sacking him; having him arrested? Why is nobody at Nokia going "this is not a burning platform we are hurting for real"? I don't really care if he is inept; stubborn; bribed; blackmailed? I don't know why the government is not getting involved. Whatever the reason there is something seriously wrong? And it goes way beyond incompetent management.

What I suspect for Elop[not nokia] signed a stupid exclusively deal Microsoft, and the cost of breaking that deal is more damaging that burning the company.

Re:I don't think so (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41860497)

as Nokia has history of marking amazing phones

So does RIM. History doesn't mean shit in the current phone market. Only Apple has managed to build some brand loyalty, and Samsung is showing Apple that loyalty isn't worth nearly as being the flavor-of-the-month.

Nobody has a secure position right now. The tech is evolving way too fast.

In Other news (5, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41859785)

LG is profitable again after dumping windows and focusing on Android.
Asus have also having good fortune from Android Tablets.
Sony after dumping Ericsson is profitable again with Android.

Nokia gets burnt once with Windows Phone 8 incompatibilities
Nokia gets thrown under a bus with the Surface tablet
Nokia gets B*******d new Microsoft Phone

Now I'm not saying Nokia should have gone Android...just that Android has a 75% share , and Nokia has well a share of what 2%

Re:In Other news (3, Insightful)

laffer1 (701823) | about 2 years ago | (#41859887)

Android is a race to the bottom just as PC sales were. If you're Samsung or Moto, it's great to be in android. They have the higher margin devices. Too bad most devices are crap. The same can be said for the PC. Google has used microsoft's own battle plan against them. Microsoft sees this and uses the Apple battle plan because somehow they always survive. In 15 years, will we see google giving microsoft a loan or investment so there is still competition?

Nokia has a microsoft fanboy working for them. There is nothing left for them. They could have owned the dumbphone market and worked on something decent or acquired RIM and tried to do something with it. They could have tried to get webos from HP or partnered with them. There are many things they could have done, but they chose to be the launchpad for microsoft as a hardware company. (ignoring the xbox and input device lines) Best case, Nokia is bought by Microsoft. I don't even see that future.

Re:In Other news (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41860059)

By and large I agree with you, though there are some pretty nice Android devices out there if you're willing to spend the money. The fact is that the market seems to be shaping up to be a two horse race with the likes of Blackberry fading quickly, or at least doomed to niche positions. Can Microsoft make it a three horse race? Who knows, but history suggests that Microsoft's forays into this market have been pretty dismal failures. In fact, outside of the Xbox division, Microsoft's attempts to break out of its core business units has been rather unimpressive, and even with the Xbox division, it basically bought its market position, and who knows when that unit will finally pay off the vast mountains of money thrown at it.

Re:In Other news (3, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41860093)

Android is a race to the bottom...Too bad most devices are crap

There is no part of that that is true. Current Windows Phones won't run WP8 [seriously single processor], Iphones had a disappointing launch is reflected marketshare is down from 23.1% to 14.9% in a couple of quarters. RIM is yet to come out with a compelling product...and Elop killed Symbian

Android had waterproof phones; projectors; massive phones; value phones; keyboard phones; cutting edge phones...and a marketshare of 75%...they are buying them because they are great innovative hardware and more importantly software. They are building market share not a desperate dying monopolist trying to gain market share through its usual bully tactics[Microsoft] or maintain it through Litigation.

Re:In Other news (1)

Scowler (667000) | about 2 years ago | (#41860711)

There is only room for one or two vendors to fully PROFIT (that's the word you don't seem to get) from Android. The rest? A race for very thin margins. Witness HTC.

Re:In Other news (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41860843)

There is only room for one or two vendors to fully PROFIT (that's the word you don't seem to get) from Android. The rest? A race for very thin margins. Witness HTC.

...but that is clearly not true ZTE; Hweui is making massive market share gains. Asus is doing well with Android tablets, LG is profiting again from dumping Windows Phone, Sony after dumping Ericsson with its Android phone is profitable...Even HTC is profitable its just been less competitive than other Android phone manufactures. I believe Google are doing quite well too.You are aware than HTC [and ironically Samsung] make windows phones too :)

Seriously stop spreading this lie, Even Apple manage to make a profit with their shrinking market share.

Re:In Other news (2)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 2 years ago | (#41860187)

Android is a race to the bottom just as PC sales were. If you're Samsung or Moto, it's great to be in android. They have the higher margin devices. Too bad most devices are crap.

"Crap" is relative. While I've complained a lot about the old Froyo-based phone I eventually ditched, you only have to look at what passes for "apps" on a non-smartphone to see what a step up even a crap Android phone is over that.

Remember dumb phone calendars? Remember having to sync your phone calendar with your computer, and having to buy terrible software just to do that? Remember how bad contacts managers were on dumb phones? Remember how, for a lot of phones, you just couldn't sync anything at all - if you got a new phone, you had to punch all the numbers in by hand (or rely on the poor SIM addressbook functionality)?

Seriously - even a low-end crap smartphone is miles ahead of what we had to use before.

Re:In Other news (1)

21mhz (443080) | about 2 years ago | (#41861219)

"Crap" is relative. While I've complained a lot about the old Froyo-based phone I eventually ditched, you only have to look at what passes for "apps" on a non-smartphone to see what a step up even a crap Android phone is over that.

The game has changed a bit. Pick a cheaper Lumia or an Asha touch phone (to talk about ostensible non-smartphones). Most cheap Android phones are crap compared to that.

Re:In Other news (1)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about 2 years ago | (#41860697)

Microsoft sees this and uses the Apple battle plan because somehow they always survive.

I might be wrong, but I somehow recall MS buying $150 million worth of Apple stock in '97 to help keep the company afloat. Am I wrong on this? I recall it very clearly, so I'm pretty sure there was a significant MS investment in Apple at that time. I think it was tied to putting MS Office on the Macintosh. I thought at the time that MS needed Apple as a competitor due to all the anti-trust investigations? And did IBM and/or Motorola throw some money into Apple in the '90's related to the Power PC project? Once again, I may be wrong, and I'm having trouble finding sources. I'm not saying Apple isn't a capable company - clearly they are by modern standards. I just don't know if the "somehow they always survive" statement is completely true standing by itself. Maybe "somehow they always survive - even if they needed a little help from their friends/competitors"?

I guess no one remembers Kin (4, Insightful)

Dracos (107777) | about 2 years ago | (#41859919)

The two phones MS made a couple years ago that sold ridiculously poorly and were pulled from the carrier (Verizon, I think) after only a few weeks. Yeah, a Microsoft phone will change everything.

Re:I guess no one remembers Kin (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#41860071)

The two phones MS made a couple years ago that sold ridiculously poorly and were pulled from the carrier (Verizon, I think) after only a few weeks. Yeah, a Microsoft phone will change everything.

Yeah, but the difference is that the Kin was a piece of cra....

Wait a minute.

Never mind.

Re:I guess no one remembers Kin (1)

FuegoFuerte (247200) | about 2 years ago | (#41860447)

Yeah... I'm pretty sure they fired everyone on that team and fumagated the building.

"they fired everyone on that team" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41860653)

No the team QUIT after being fed up with having to deal with the morons in Microsoft project management.

Re:"they fired everyone on that team" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41860829)

"The team" was the Danger staff. You know, the company that made the SideKick, the most popular consumer smartphone before the iPhone existed.

One of the founders, Andy Rubin, left to create some other cellphone operating system that you might have heard of. Microsoft then bought the company and ran it into the fucking ground. By the time they were making the Kin, they were scraping the bottom of the talent barrel that was left.

It wasn't Danger, it was MSFT management (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861375)

Two of the three founders of Danger were still there. They quit and went to work for Andy after Microsoft demonstrated how clueless they were (and are) about the mobile product space. MSFT bought Danger, ignored what the staff said, and just built what they were going to build before buying them, and failed miserably.

Re:I guess no one remembers Kin (1)

Farmer Tim (530755) | about 2 years ago | (#41860733)

Yeah... I'm pretty sure they fired everyone on that team and fumagated the building.

Shouldn't have been done in that order, IMO.

Re:I guess no one remembers Kin (1)

HiThere (15173) | about 2 years ago | (#41860481)

You can't be sure they learned nothing from the experience. And now they have scavanged skills and materials from Noika. So they might succeed.

Re:I guess no one remembers Kin (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41860523)

The two phones MS made a couple years ago that sold ridiculously poorly and were pulled from the carrier (Verizon, I think) after only a few weeks. Yeah, a Microsoft phone will change everything ...and there was no way Apple could make a viable tablet after the whole Newton failure.

Worked for M$ with the Xbox (1)

jbeach (852844) | about 2 years ago | (#41860017)

When you have an OS that is specifically created for a specific hardware set you control, *everything* becomes simpler and easier.

Re:Worked for M$ with the Xbox (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41860393)

The XBox had content unique to it, such as "Halo." But game systems live[d] and die[d] on content, whereas smart phones have core functionality like phone, internet, music device and camera, as well as an app ecosystem. Unfortunately, iOS and Android have thriving app stores, whereas my friends who use Windows Phone get pissed because the few apps they want haven't been ported to Windows Phone.

So, will and can Microsoft bring good, unique, "killer app" content to an in-house Windows Phone?

MS imitating Apple (2)

Dr. Tom (23206) | about 2 years ago | (#41860629)

There can be no better proof that MS is irrelevant and dying. If they had any balls, they'd reinvent the PC, create something new that people might want, but instead they opt for imitating their competitors, a continuing spiral into failure.

MS employees must be thinking about new careers.

Re:MS imitating Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41860665)

Who isn't copying whom nowadays?

Re:MS imitating Apple (2)

tokencode (1952944) | about 2 years ago | (#41860809)

MS is far from irrelevent and dying... they still dominate the business world and Apple's own cloud utilizes Microsoft's Azure... Obviously you have no experience in corporate IT and are simply using consumer devices to from wihch to draw your incorrect conclusion.

Re:MS imitating Apple (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#41861061)

MS is far from irrelevent and dying... they still dominate the business world and Apple's own cloud utilizes Microsoft's Azure... Obviously you have no experience in corporate IT and are simply using consumer devices to from wihch to draw your incorrect conclusion.

Here is the thing, Apple & Google dominate the Mobile and Internet [as well as a whole host of other giants like Facebook and Amazon]. Microsoft is a bit Player in markets where it should have been a leader. Its not and its efforts to Bully its way into these markets have failed. Look at the topic "Microsoft reportedly working on its own smartphone"...Its not 2007 its nearly 2013 that is 5 years too late.

My guess is people will stop buying office first. Microsoft has already started giving it away to the consumer market for free..but your right there is still more money to be squeezed out of its Desktop and Office monopoly, but its dominance has gone.

Re:MS imitating Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861145)

There's more consumers than business users. Corporate IT is a fraction of the marketplace. #fail

MS + Apple dieing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41860883)

M$ is once again the scorpion to Nokia's frog, and this will do them a lot of good with the European competition directorate ... NOT

MFG, omb

Re:MS imitating Apple (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41861223)

Let me know when I can read and write Word documents that are flawless from every single user on the planet! Macs do not count as they are well over $1400! Besides entourage does not integrate with Exchange so it makes them useless in a corporate environment.

People use Windows because it works. Same with Office and until that changes they are never going to go away. Same is true with the ancient IE 6 and VB and MS Access apps running in enterprises across the country.

Not everyone plays Angry Birds and reads Slashdot all day.

LATE! (1)

kbmxpxfan (1251818) | about 2 years ago | (#41860827)

This story is weeks old already.

Microsoft should stop copying Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41860891)

Not everything Apple does is a smart move. In fact, Android's success came from copying the style of the Microsoft Wuindows openess.

Truthfully, if a better MS Office and Exchange clone appeared, MS would be gone. MS should be focusing on lowering prices for Windows upgrades, and Office. As it is right now, their only competitive edge is their business software. If RIM releases a free QNX PC OS (with support for windows hardware drivers), plus a bug free BES and office suite, MS could cease to exist.

Re:Microsoft should stop copying Apple (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41861211)

Exchange and Office are 2 products everyone loves to hate and yet loves. This is why I use Windows. It just works and I can communicate with the rest of the world by using what other people use it means less headaches.

This means word and excel documents that are rendered correctly everything. It sucks but that is the only thing keeping me in and the same with the business world.

backup plan as their channel partners fold (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861083)

one by one their PC partners are showing major losses and some, like IBM, abandoned the PC segment, while others like HP are teetering and others showing major losses. So what is Microsoft to do but start using their massive profits and cash and get building their own hardware. Who knows how long they'll turn into the only one of a few selling Microsoft hardware.

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