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Ask Slashdot: Finding Legacy UnixWare Installation Media?

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the check-the-wine-cellar dept.

Media 193

First time accepted submitter lukpac writes "We have an old (ancient) Unisys server in production that hosts a legacy system and are attempting to virtualize it. Unfortunately we don't have a generic UnixWare (2.1.2) installation CD, just a Unisys-specific one, and given the recent unpleasantness (see Groklaw for details), SCO isn't much of an option. We're not looking at pirating it (as above, we do still have the Unisys-specific media), but do need a generic copy of UnixWare. What options, if any, are available?"

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$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861263)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, She is Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.

Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.

Disproof of all apk's statements: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946043 [slashdot.org]
http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040729&cid=40949719 [slashdot.org]
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http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40947927 [slashdot.org]
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040425&cid=40946755 [slashdot.org]
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946043 [slashdot.org]
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40942439 [slashdot.org]
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3024445&cid=40942207 [slashdot.org]
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40942031 [slashdot.org]
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http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041091&cid=40952383 [slashdot.org]
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40952991 [slashdot.org]
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954201 [slashdot.org]
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http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40886171 [slashdot.org]
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042451&cid=40959497 [slashdot.org]
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042547&cid=40960279 [slashdot.org]
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http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=40965091 [slashdot.org]
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=40965087 [slashdot.org]
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http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3046181&cid=40978835 [slashdot.org]
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http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41846971 [slashdot.org]
AND MANY MORE

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words

alexander peter kowalski
903 east division st.
syracuse, ny 13208

dob: 01/31/1965

mother:
jan kowalski
dob: 12/03/1933

TL-DNR (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861327)

I can has summary?

Re:$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861441)

Can someone please kill this retard?

Re:$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski (0)

RKBA (622932) | about 2 years ago | (#41862453)

Better be careful. These days, words like those on the Internet can get you tossed into prison by DHS.

Re:$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861611)

Someone forgot to take their meds.

Re:$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 2 years ago | (#41862953)

[x] Do not show this message again

Virtualize as bare metal (4, Insightful)

chaoskitty (11449) | about 2 years ago | (#41861279)

How about doing a dd of the entire drive from the current system to a virtual disk and trying to make that work? Is the Unisys hardware that special? If not, you might be able to get it working by manipulating the virtual hardware of your VM.

Re:Virtualize as bare metal (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862439)

What is this "dd?" Sounds like you're talking about unix type shit. How am I supposed to know how to use unix to copy unix? Are you a wizard?

no p2v for unix? (2)

alen (225700) | about 2 years ago | (#41861281)

on windows vmware has a utility that copies your physical installation to a virtual one. even sets it as the same computer account so you don't need to drop and add it to the domain. don't need any install media.

nothing like that for unix

Re:no p2v for unix? (5, Informative)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41861309)

Yes, it's called dd.

Re:no p2v for unix? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861395)

Not nearly as elegant, and I seriously doubt it would even stand a chance of working. Seriously, systems this old need to be retired.

Re:no p2v for unix? (4, Informative)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41861477)

Never used it with VMware but I've certainly moves physical machines over to KVM using dd images. If you want elegance, Clonezilla has a reasonably easy interface.

Re:no p2v for unix? (1)

jameshofo (1454841) | about 2 years ago | (#41862211)

After you dd it off you just need to use qemu-img convert -f raw -O vmdk oldfilename.raw output.vmdk, This seems to only convert it to work with virtual IDE controllers in my experience. Virtualbox can do it too probably a little more effectively.

Re:no p2v for unix? (1)

jameshofo (1454841) | about 2 years ago | (#41862237)

well since no one else mentioned it, you can copy the target machine without even rebooting it, ssh root@target dd if=/dev/drive | dd of=/local/image.raw

Re:no p2v for unix? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862443)

Whenever I do this kind of thing and I am dealing with hosts on the same LAN and the images are multiple gigabytes, I use netcat rather than ssh--it's transfers much faster that way. (By the way, you need quotes around that "dd if=/dev/drive" part if you're using SSH.)

As far as that goes, do they even *have* SSH on that Unisys machine? I'll bet they'd have to compile it. The source tarball for netcat6 is about a fifth of the size of that of OpenSSH, and the ancient nc is about a third the size of netcat6. You might have better luck having netcat compile on that machine.

Re:no p2v for unix? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862447)

dd if=/dev/drive of=/local/image.raw wouldn't do the same?

Re:no p2v for unix? (1)

promythyus (1519707) | about 2 years ago | (#41862801)

That would create image.raw in /local/ on the remote machine. That command is piping the output of dd if=/dev/drive on the remote machine, over ssh, to the input of dd of=/local/image.raw on the local machine.

Re:no p2v for unix? (5, Insightful)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 2 years ago | (#41861483)

Seriously, systems this old need to be retired.

Seriously, that isn't always an option.

Re:no p2v for unix? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861925)

Seriously, that isn't always an option.

Not when you're being cheap about it.

Re:no p2v for unix? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862831)

stop speaking out of your arse you ignorant fool.

Re:no p2v for unix? (1)

TheLink (130905) | about 2 years ago | (#41862937)

If the virtualization stuff works then they can be cheap and save money for a decade or more, they might have problems around 2038 if they somehow keep using it.

The issue is if vmware etc stop providing legacy virtual hardware.

Re:no p2v for unix? (2)

Nimey (114278) | about 2 years ago | (#41862077)

It isn't, but if something's so old it's completely unsupported then you're fucking stupid to bet your business on it not failing.

If the hardware's not virtualizable, the only responsible course IMO is to port the business-critical functionality to something new and standardized. Yes, bugs are expensive to fix, but so's bringing back ancient hardware.

Re:no p2v for unix? (4, Insightful)

thegarbz (1787294) | about 2 years ago | (#41862337)

A system doesn't need to be supported to be able to fully work. If an environment is completely stable why does it need support?

Back it up, make sure you can still buy hardware for it to run on, and you're set. There's no point in upgrading a system which simply works as designed and is never modified. And I say this as someone who has applied the paddles of life to a machine running DOS at my work this year to keep an old proprietary system up and running. It's due for an upgrade in 2015.

Re:no p2v for unix? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862547)

And what happens when the people that work on those old systems retire? At some point it becomes rare enough that you have to pay through the nose for one of the few people that really know how to use it. Or train somebody new and hope that they don't need experience.

Re:no p2v for unix? (1)

demonlapin (527802) | about 2 years ago | (#41862715)

Is running DOS a big deal? I would assume not, but I suppose I could be wrong.

Re:no p2v for unix? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862765)

Depends. Is it freedos? And is it an in-house application or something distributed. If it is your own application the license does not matter. If it has been given to you and is non-free than there is an issue.

Re:no p2v for unix? (1)

Rob Riggs (6418) | about 2 years ago | (#41862537)

Seriously, systems this old need to be retired.

Seriously, that isn't always an option.

Seriously --it is *always* an option. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't thinking. Look -- failure is always an option. Trust me -- failure is something that will get an executive's attention faster than anything. Failure is such an option that quitting your position -- or sticking around just to witness the beautiful consequences -- are sometime exquisitely worth the price. I would pay money to work anywhere that still depends on Unixware just to watch that fail unfold.

Re:no p2v for unix? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862671)

With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. I've seen several instances where a system, despite its legacy status, cannot be retired. The best you can possibly hope for is to reduce its influence slowly over time but even then they are sometimes still necessary for production, historical or legal reasons. And that is why I still support HP/UX 10.20, because we still use it in production. It is an ugly beast, and we are reducing its influence, but it will never truly go away until they stop shipping chips that are tested using chip testers driven by HP/UX 10.20

Re:no p2v for unix? (4, Informative)

dreamchaser (49529) | about 2 years ago | (#41861521)

dd works just fine with VMWare in most cases. I've used it dozens of times.

Re:no p2v for unix? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about 2 years ago | (#41861609)

It can certainly work in principle. Unixware might be just too darn old but I've used the dd approach on XP with VirtualBox on Linux.

Re:no p2v for unix? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862119)

Seriously, systems this old need to be retired.

1. That's exactly what OP is trying to do.

2. Seriously, have you ever worked on anything in the real world? like maybe, telephones? electrical systems? You'd be amazed how many systems are out there payin' the bills every day that are older than most slashdotters.

Re:no p2v for unix? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862321)

This This This This This! Wait until you run into the Vacuum tubes in telco comm gear!

Re:no p2v for unix? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861523)

Don't know if it's an option, but if you install vmware esxi on a machine,
it has a plugin that allows you to do a p2v of a UNIX machine. I've used it at work a few times. Can take a while since it runs over the network, but works pretty well.

Re:no p2v for unix? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862101)

For some flavours, yes. UnixWare? Doubtful. That can be worked around though. The main problem is driver support in the guest OS for whatever virtual hardware the host is presenting.

oh god (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861307)

unisys server in production that hosts a legacy system and are attempting to virtualize it

a true beowulf cluster

Re:oh god (1)

dunng808 (448849) | about 2 years ago | (#41861621)

How long has it been since that meme appeared here? Nice flash-back, nice end to the week. Thanks!

UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 8 !! (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861335)

You will be glad you followed this advice !! Think of it, No More CLI !! Now, everything you do, everything you COULD EVER DO, is done simply, and easily, with finger gestures !! You are welcome !! Now go shave that beard, and run home !! Run as fast as you can !!

Re:UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 8 !! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861455)

But it's no shave November....

Re:UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 8 !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861719)

But my balls are getting itchy!

Re:UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 8 !! (1)

jameshofo (1454841) | about 2 years ago | (#41862281)

thank god, that's just what we needed to update or Twatter, that's what all the kids use now a' days right?

dd (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41861379)

With dd you can create an exact image. Unfortunately you need to figure out if your hard drive can be read in a modern system. Xenix aka OpenServer was far more popular than Unixware in the x86 arena so I wonder what kind of architecture it is?

Here are the steps
1. Create a Linux system
2. Hook up the hard drive to it and mount it (Can Linux read Unixware formatted volumes?) and then run dd off the old hard drive and output it as a binary to the new hard drive.
3. Find a Virtualization solution that is compatilbe to load the image in

I doubt VMWare supports Unixware but it might. This is going to be a challenge and I know you may hate me for saying it but keep the server. Unless there is a new version of the software that is Linux compatible why fix what isn't broken? Keep in mind old SCO is Tarantula and owns Unixware. New SCO aka SCO Group does not own Unixware but is a just a licensing troll.

Re:dd (1)

allaunjsilverfox2 (882195) | about 2 years ago | (#41861427)

With dd you can create an exact image. Unfortunately you need to figure out if your hard drive can be read in a modern system. Xenix aka OpenServer was far more popular than Unixware in the x86 arena so I wonder what kind of architecture it is?

Here are the steps 1. Create a Linux system 2. Hook up the hard drive to it and mount it (Can Linux read Unixware formatted volumes?) and then run dd off the old hard drive and output it as a binary to the new hard drive. 3. Find a Virtualization solution that is compatilbe to load the image in

I doubt VMWare supports Unixware but it might. This is going to be a challenge and I know you may hate me for saying it but keep the server. Unless there is a new version of the software that is Linux compatible why fix what isn't broken? Keep in mind old SCO is Tarantula and owns Unixware. New SCO aka SCO Group does not own Unixware but is a just a licensing troll.

http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Filesystems-HOWTO-9.html [tldp.org] Quote from page: The support for BFS is included in the Linux kernel since version 2.3.25. If you are using an earlier kernel, check if BFS homepage contains a patch which adds support for this filesystem. The homepage also contains bugfixes/enhancement which are not yet merged into the official kernel.

Re:dd (1)

YukariHirai (2674609) | about 2 years ago | (#41861449)

2. Hook up the hard drive to it and mount it (Can Linux read Unixware formatted volumes?)

It doesn't matter, if all you're doing is using dd to dump the raw contents of the hard drive to a file.

Re:dd (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41861497)

... and dump them exactly where?

Re:dd (2)

caseih (160668) | about 2 years ago | (#41861737)

To a file. Did this the other day with an old FreeBSD box. dd'd the drive to a file, called freebsd.raw. Then I used qemu-img to convert it to vmware or virtualbox, or whatever format you need. Then copy the result to your VM host.

With Unix and Linux it really is that easy. With Windows, not so much.

Re:dd (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862225)

My point was if you dd the whole hard drive where are you going to output? Thats why you need to put it in another machine so the image can be copied to a file

Re:dd (1)

wierd_w (1375923) | about 2 years ago | (#41862425)

if we assume that the unixware system does not use IDE or some similarly popular interface type, and thus cannot be hooked to a modern system for dd, then you can always mount a network share from the production server itself, and dd from there.

Slow as hell, but if it gets the image....

Re:dd (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862433)

My point was if you dd the whole hard drive where are you going to output?

Pipe it a network utility like nc or ssh and then redirect into file. Duh, winning.

Re:dd (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862513)

ssh root@unixwarehost dd if=/dev/foo \|gzip | gunzip >unixware.img
or such...

Of course, dding a whole filesystem image from a long-lived machine means you'll use the whole space -- the unused space is no doubt full of file detritus, not zeroed, so the image won't be sparse. Probably not an issue in this day of cheap disks, but worth mention.

Re:dd (1)

petermgreen (876956) | about 2 years ago | (#41861773)

To a file that will then be used as the virtual disk for your new vm (or if your vm software doesn't support raw disk images converted into a disk image format it does support, qemu comes with a tool that can convert raw images to vmware images iirc). You don't strictly need to understand the contents of the disk to read it to an image hook the image up to a vm.

The problem comes if you need to make any tweaks before the system will boot in the vm. Then you do need something that can read/write the filesystem :(

Re:dd (5, Informative)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41861467)

Update

You need Unixware 7.1 to run [vmware.com] . DD wont work as it is not a VMWare image disk file.

I know the cost of a new license is $699 per CPU plus $1999 for a TCP/IP, but I would upgrade. The business reason is your ancient 15 year old server is going to die. All it takes is a single prolonged power outage like the one in New York City that your APC can keep on forever and your ancient PSU is TOAST! Systems that old do not reboot reliable.

So your business case it to virtualize it so it can run on newer hardware forever and you wont be caught with your pants down if something happens and it will on such an ancient beast. So buy a new shiny Linux box, install VMWorkstation (VSX or VSPhere is waaaay too expensive unless you run a server farm/data center) and install a fresh copy of Unixware 7.x on a virtual machine and over the network copy the program, config files, and database files. With virtualization you can consolidate and you can put more things on the same box to save power like your DNS Server or a Windows file share too on a different vms to cut down on the amount of servers.

Good luck.

Re:dd (3, Informative)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#41861531)

Qemu comes with tools to change the formats of disk images. Use dd to create a raw file, then convert to whatever format required. I've used Qemu to convert VMware images for use in KVM.

Re:dd (5, Informative)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41861585)

Newer Update

The poster is screwed. If it is u6000 Unisys model it uses a iAPX-86 family cpu. No it is not x86 compatible. So if something does happen your employer goes out of business! Find out asap what kind of Unisys system it is!!

Newer business plan ...
My recommendation is to migrate to another platform and start over. Your boss will hate that! Your workers will hate that! Your accountants will hate that! But you need to be able to migrate to a platform that can at least run on a virtual machine forever and ever and not be caught with your pants down again. I do not know how important this server is or what it does or hopefully does not have ancient database records needed for daily operation GOD FORBID.

Make a business case with the owners or IT department depending on size and say we have A LIABILITY. Liability gets there attention fast and explain you are one outage or parts failure from disaster that you can't recover from. It will cost money and workers who resist change will hate you and complain how great the other product is, but ask them how much it will cost when it dies?

Believe it or not there are workers who hate leaving IE 6 and 7 behind too. Just because it was what htey used for 10 years even though they used Firefox from home. Your intentions of just replacing SCO in a VM are a good one but from how I see it you just discovered a big problem that a good IT employer would recommend to fix.

Again Good Luck

Re:dd (1)

postbigbang (761081) | about 2 years ago | (#41861937)

There is an app, data, settings, permissions, and code. Examining each of these items can help move it onto a new target system, but it should be done by someone familiar with real Unix and the target system's needs.

If it's x86 code, maybe it can become a virtual machine, using some of the methods described upthread, but it means that filesystem must be supported, and you can get to it via tty devices, if there are terminals rather than host sessions. SSH2 wasn't around back then, so some kind of terminal emulation is likely to be needed, and there are any number of vt100 emulators that might be constructed to vector the terminals/tty1-N.

Printers are something else again. Modem links, or other items might also need re/indirection to other outputs.

It takes examination, and reworking the functionality if virtualized or ported to a new host. I don't know that there's an easy fix here.

Re:dd (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862307)

The iAPX-86 (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dataframe.php?file=DSA-276782.pdf&dir=Datasheets-14&part=IAPX86#) *is* an 8086 processor combined with an 80139 peripheral/ROM chip, which contained OS support code.

The application binary should use the UNIX API, and may be transportable to any x86 UNIX system with a compatible ABI (Application Binary Interface).

Booting the dd image on any other hardware is a lost cause, since the OS is certain to rely on the ROM code or the peripherals in the 80130 chip. Unless, of course, you are able to find an 80130 emulator (which a search failed to reveal).

So, grab the dd image, mount it using a compatible UNIX (virtually or physically), and see if your app will start. My Magic-8 Ball (tm) says "Signs point to YES"!

Re:dd (mod parent up (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41862419)

The iAPX-86 (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dataframe.php?file=DSA-276782.pdf&dir=Datasheets-14&part=IAPX86#) *is* an 8086 processor combined with an 80139 peripheral/ROM chip, which contained OS support code.

The application binary should use the UNIX API, and may be transportable to any x86 UNIX system with a compatible ABI (Application Binary Interface).

Booting the dd image on any other hardware is a lost cause, since the OS is certain to rely on the ROM code or the peripherals in the 80130 chip. Unless, of course, you are able to find an 80130 emulator (which a search failed to reveal).

So, grab the dd image, mount it using a compatible UNIX (virtually or physically), and see if your app will start. My Magic-8 Ball (tm) says "Signs point to YES"!

I stand corrected. I confused the iAPX-86 with the iAPX-4432 when googling this [wikipedia.org] . Unisys made strange 6800 series systems too so who knows. the u6000 was the first hit that ran Unixware and is probably what he is running as the 6800 ran QNX.

I freely admit I was in 1st grade when these systems came out so maybe the grayhairs can assist better as I am not an expert. Just imagining the nightmare on what could go wrong.

If is binary compatible than get Unixware 7.1 for its VMWare support and retire that dinosaur server asap. If not then there is going to be pain and that ancient platform has got to go.

Re:dd (1)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | about 2 years ago | (#41862031)

Why not just set up a new system on Linux. Then find some way to get PostGres, mysql or modern database client/library of your choice running on the old Unixware server. Then write a script to run on the old Unixware server that accesses the old data on whatever database is being used on the old Unix server using the database driver/client for that old database, grabs that data off the old database, and then using the newly installed *sql client, sends the data to the new Linux server. On the new linux server new software can be written to use the data or you can try to port over the code if you have the sources for the old information system.

Re:dd (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41862327)

Why not just set up a new system on Linux. Then find some way to get PostGres, mysql or modern database client/library of your choice running on the old Unixware server. Then write a script to run on the old Unixware server that accesses the old data on whatever database is being used on the old Unix server using the database driver/client for that old database, grabs that data off the old database, and then using the newly installed *sql client, sends the data to the new Linux server. On the new linux server new software can be written to use the data or you can try to port over the code if you have the sources for the old information system.

It is not that simple. What if it uses PIC and not SQL. PIC is what really old databases use before relational math came into the picture and I have seen it used with HP-UX.

Also it probably does something with many use cases too like monitors equipment, uses custom math formulas people forgotten about for cost analysis, or who knows what. Maybe there is another program maybe not. This is not a simple index like your MySQL class was in college. Data is just part of it. Doing more investigative work in this as I found out most Unisys systems not even being x86 compatible really is aching.

Reading these threads give slashdotters an insight why corps do strange things like keep IE 6 as dumbfounded as it sounds. It is nightmares like what I described to upgrade that no one really wants to do. SCO is hated too but running something godawful proprietary are a bitch to change and then the middle aged workers who go on and on how great XP is hate change and will fight you tooth and nail to change to any newer better solution.

The operating system does not really matter as it is the program and its hardware compatibility. That program wont run on Linux more than it will run on Windows. Anything x86 is good as it is well supported and will be for a long time and can live on a virtual machine when the operating system becomes obsolete. An old Unisys u6000 is so out of date and proprietary as an example. Unisys also makes some 68000 servers too. This means you can not VM it as x86 is not compatible.

If the poster is really lucky and it is a 386 or 186 then it might run on Unixware 7.1 for VMWare. .... this assumes his boss is understanding and so is he paying SCO. It is an expensive and colossal waste of time

Re:dd (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861705)

VSphere is way too expensise at 5k for 3 physical host (6 cpu) ? Must be hard to work for a third world company.

Re:dd (1)

caseih (160668) | about 2 years ago | (#41861769)

Your posts indicate to me that you have no experience doing this sort of thing.

I have experience, and DD will work, followed by a pass by qemu-img to convert the image. But in fact a raw image *does* work with vmware. I've done that before too, though now that qemu-img works so well, converting to a native image is no problem.

Re:dd (-1, Offtopic)

Nimey (114278) | about 2 years ago | (#41861791)

I know the cost of a new license is $699 per CPU

...you cock-smoking teabaggers.

Re:dd WILL work (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862577)

If the machine is being nasty, what you do is:

1) Build a new (empty) VMware server with the necessary disk space.
2) Boot it of a Linux demo disk of your choice and configure nc (netcat) to listen on a nominated tcp port, and pipe it's output to a DD command to write the data to the newly (empty) virtual disk.
3) On the Unixware machine, use DD to read the physical disk but write the output to nc (netcat) and have it send the data to the newly built vmware server
4) come back in a couple of hours when it's completed copying.

Then reboot your newly created VM and see why it does. It will probably complain about device drivers not being able to find the relevant hardware, etc. but that's probably a lot easier to fix than having to rebuild your application stack form the ground up and reconfigure it. Remember that you don't want the source physical and destination virtual server(s) on the network at the same time.

Netcat is amazing for stuff like this. You can also use it (with tar) to move files across systems with minimal stuffing around. :-)

Re:dd (2)

bertok (226922) | about 2 years ago | (#41862649)

Linux box, install VMWorkstation (VSX or VSPhere is waaaay too expensive unless you run a server farm/data center)

Wrong solution. You don't use a workstation hypervisor for servers when there are free server hypervisors out there.

There's a free edition of ESXi, a free Citrix XenServer, and lots of places with Windows Server licenses are probably already licensed for Hyper-V, even if they don't realize it.

All of those are far superior to running a desktop program on top of a full install of Linux!

Re:dd (1)

cultiv8 (1660093) | about 2 years ago | (#41862679)

I feel like this should be modded funny.

Private Message Me? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861433)

I've been ... oddly, collecting original installation CDs, and licenses (valid) for dozens and dozens of OSes for years. I have early versions and later ones, slackware, unixware, irix, and many others.

Send me a message ...

Re:Private Message Me? (5, Funny)

AdamHaun (43173) | about 2 years ago | (#41861501)

I've been ... oddly, collecting original installation CDs, and licenses (valid) for dozens and dozens of OSes for years. I have early versions and later ones, slackware, unixware, irix, and many others.

Send me a message ...

You know you posted as AC, right?

Re:Private Message Me? (3, Informative)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 2 years ago | (#41861565)

've been ... oddly, collecting original installation CDs, and licenses (valid) for dozens and dozens of OSes for years. I have early versions and later ones, slackware, unixware, irix, and many others.

Send me a message ...

You know you posted as AC, right?

You know there's no way to "private message" someone on slashdot, right?

Re:Private Message Me? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861971)

5 digit UID; think about it.

Re:Private Message Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861603)

whoosh

Is old Unisys server x86? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861451)

Unless you anciant Unisys server is x86 based you are probably going to have truble getting you legacy app to run, unless you have the code and can re-compile it. And if you can recompile it, it might be time to think about porting it to something like Linux/BSD/Solaris.

Re:Is old Unisys server x86? (4, Insightful)

KiloByte (825081) | about 2 years ago | (#41861485)

If that server is truly ancient, qemu might handle it at speeds comparable to your old hardware -- or perhaps even faster.

Re:Is old Unisys server x86? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861761)

+1 Hilarious. Just put qemu in a cron job, and swap the network cables when no one's looking. You can probably hard wire the blinken lights on the Unisys to look like it's still in operation. Tell them you optimized the qubits, but the new server next to it keeps them optimized, so it must never be turned off.
--END-BOFH-SIGNED-MESSAGE--

Re:Is old Unisys server x86? (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#41862353)

Can it emulate ancient iAPX-86 family processors? Can it emulate the firmware of these 30 year old Unisys servers? What about emulate the pre-ethernet cards of these 30 year old machines? Just because it can convert a motorolla 68602 from an Apple II into x86 code does not mean it can emulate everything about the other machine.

This argument was why people dumped Unix and VMS in the 1990s for crappy wintel servers. One standard helps when shit becomes obsolete. At least lintel is now in the picture but it does little help if it is a different version of Unixware compiled for non x86 CPUs. Infact it could even be an x86 CPU but the Unisys version of Unixware is so proprietary it wont run on any other piece of hardware. Ugh

Re:Is old Unisys server x86? (1)

Nutria (679911) | about 2 years ago | (#41861725)

Unisys did sell x86 systems.

Perhaps you don't realize (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861535)

Copying the software into a VM isn't really much different than downloading a "pirate" copy. You aren't authorized to copy it in either case, not by the copyright holder who often only authorizes installation on a single machine, and who provides no transfer of license when hardware changes hands. You certainly can't pretend that copying the CD onto virtual machines is legitimate or authorized simply due to the fact that you have original media. Further, if you're charging money for this service to an end user that isn't your employer, there may be other crimes you could be charged with.

Finally, when you do find it, try qemu.or bochs, emulating the oldest hardware it supports. You'll find something that works quite well with a later edition of i486 openserver or some such.

UnixWare v1.1 here, never used, if you want it. (4, Informative)

macraig (621737) | about 2 years ago | (#41861559)

Complete with all documentation, some of it still shrink-wrapped. The diskette and CD envelopes were also never opened, though the adhesive on the perforated flaps has dried up and left them unsealed even though they were.

Look into emulating the ABI (1)

Let's All Be Chinese (2654985) | about 2 years ago | (#41861561)

FreeBSD and NetBSD have an ABI wrapper feature (aka "linuxulator" when wrapping linux) that let you translate syscalls for older versions of the same OS, or even different unixoid OSes. Add userland libraries from the original environment, and you can run the original app unchanged. As long as the application doesn't try and access hard-to-duplicate features, talk to hardware directly, that sort of thing. This gets you a modern and virtualisable OS that can run your old programs.

If there isn't a suitable ABI wrapper for your platform now, at least it could be added relatively easily. Possibly a long shot but at least it's an option to look into.

Re:Look into emulating the ABI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861615)

BSD is dying. Nuff said.

Re:Look into emulating the ABI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861783)

I'll compare uptimes. Betcha Linux died first.

Re:Look into emulating the ABI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862407)

I'll compare uptimes. Betcha Linux died first.

It doesn't count. Netcraft has to confirm it first.

Re:Look into emulating the ABI (1)

interval1066 (668936) | about 2 years ago | (#41862545)

some one's gonna create a great unixware simulation in netcraft, and WHERE WILL YOUR GOD BE THEN, VMWARE???

linux-abi/ibcs? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41861563)

Support is probably pretty much abandoned now but back in the days of the 2.2/2.4 kernels, there was support available in the kernel for running UNIX binaries directly. Pretty sure this included Unixware. You may be able to virtualise an old Linux that will host your unixware stuff, rather than using a unixware kernel.

see: http://linux-abi.sourceforge.net for a starting point

Just clone the drive... (1)

Panaflex (13191) | about 2 years ago | (#41861645)

I've installed Unixware 2.1.2 a few times, the license was straightforward. You're license to operate one copy of the media on a single machine, generally limited to two CPU's (SMP style). Unisys as a reseller didn't retain any copyrights, IIRC.

So clone that drive and fire it up. The original media did have a BIOS check, but only at installation. I remember booting up Unixware on other motherboards without any issue, as long as the specs were pretty close.

Other than that, if you want to continue with the media option, post a wanted ad on ebay and perhaps you'll get lucky.

Other Options (1)

ultima (3696) | about 2 years ago | (#41861697)

Option 1. Re-implement your legacy application on a modern platform, from legacy source code, or from scratch/reverse-engineering.
- You'll pay down your technical debt and possibly have a supportable, and maybe even virtualized, production system going forward.
Option 2. Sustain legacy equipment knowing that no modern emulator handles all the details of your particular proprietary hardware.
- Double down on your investment and leave the problem for the next guy.
Option 3. Hire IBM. (Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM).
- Mostly this will end up just like (2).

Oh, you wanted virtualization...but I think that's a solution to a different problem than the one you are facing. Get that app working on something reasonably open and then we can talk about virtualization.

This story shows up in Google's top 10 search results for me for Unisys Unixware right now, which really should emphasize to you the magnitude of the pain you might be facing...

Find an old friend? (1)

Cramer (69040) | about 2 years ago | (#41861763)

You'll need an old friend indeed, to find media that old.

I'll go look through my boxes, but I wouldn't bet on a) having that version, or b) the floppies it came on being readable.

Old SCO (5, Interesting)

iCEBaLM (34905) | about 2 years ago | (#41861799)

Slightly off topic but I'd like to share it:

Old SCO was pretty classy, they had their "Free license" Unixware 7 advertized on their site, but you had to pay for a "media kit" for about $100. Being a poor uppity teenager, I emailed them asking where I could download the media in order to take advantage of their free license. They asked for my address.

Three days later I had a DHL shipped media kit box with over 20 discs in total. I was sad to see them sell Unixware off.

i might have the disks (1)

drwho (4190) | about 2 years ago | (#41861955)

I was using this stuff in 1995-96. I might still have the floppys (!) or CDs around for pentium architcture. I'll look around, it's probably in storage. But you know it's full of security holes, right?

My idea (1, Informative)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | about 2 years ago | (#41862127)

From what I understand is the server that you have is not x86 so trying to run the software off that is pretty much not possible, unless you can get new x86 copies or have the source and can recompile. Unless you can get sources for whatever information system you are using, it seems the dd option is out of the question, you cannot just copy the system binaries , you wont be able to just copy the binaries it would appear.

One solution i might suggest is first setting up a new Linux server, then porting over MySQL or other modern database client libraries/client over to the old Unix system. Then write a program on the old server that takes reads the data off the old database on that old Unix system, whatever it is, and sends the data to the Linux server on over the MySQL or other new database driver. Then Write new software on the Linux server that can use that data or if you have the source code for the old software you may try to port.

You could also decide to forget about porting MySQl or other modern database stuff to the old Unix server, just write a simple thing on the Unix end that generates XML data from the data and sends the XML data, or some other simple format you can come up with, over to Linux, you write a program on Linux then gets that data, and stores it into a new SQL database.

One option is to write a small server that runs on the Linux end, or to use an FTP, or an HTTP server, perhaps even with a CGI script, on server on the Linux end to get the data. Somewhere involved here will be code to take that data, read it and then store it into a database.

Nice try Titor (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862185)

We're not falling for it this time.

Sincerely,

The Time Lords

What does this server actually do? (2)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | about 2 years ago | (#41862367)

What does this server actually do? Can you tell me? Is it a Sun Yellow Pages server?

Just buy SCO (3, Funny)

marciot (598356) | about 2 years ago | (#41862371)

> SCO isn't much of an option.

Why not? Just buy them out. By now you can probably buy the company for a few hundred bucks...

Re:Just buy SCO (1)

RocketRabbit (830691) | about 2 years ago | (#41862551)

Oh sure, the stock is worthless on the market and to most investors, but to the patent trolls that own the majority of shares it's worth a lot of money. Their intellectual property will allow many more frivolous lawsuits to be filed.

G18) Is there a UnixWare user's group? (3, Informative)

mattr (78516) | about 2 years ago | (#41862615)

G18) Is there a UnixWare user's group?

Dan Busarow writes: The SCO Users Group can be reached electronically
as scoug@xenitec.on.ca. Subscription requests to
scoug-request@xenitec.on.ca.

http://lib.ru/UNIXFAQ/faq-unixware-general.txt [lib.ru]

Binary compatibility (3, Interesting)

ulzeraj (1009869) | about 2 years ago | (#41862775)

Linux got some binary compatibility tweaks on the kernel to run programs for other operating systems. I've worked on a similar issue in the past and the relevant services running on an OpenServer were just copied into the Linux system with a patched kernel with their dependences. Luckily the program was simple enough to make it without minor bugs like glitches with the linux terminal.

If dd -> image conversion with qemu-img -> virtualization is not an option you could research a bit about binary compatibility with your old server.

option: (1)

Tastecicles (1153671) | about 2 years ago | (#41862849)

I think you can legitimately download installation media if you then obey the stipulations attached to the license you already have, that being that you can run the system on one machine at a time. Microsoft have done this for years, in that they allow you to make a backup copy of your installation media. I have it from a senior Microsoft liaison with the British Software Alliance that it is within the bounds of the license limitations to download installation media in order to reuse an OEM license on the same machine as long as it remains in the possession and control of the same Person (individual or company) who originally bought that license. Selling a machine on "legally" involves the purchase of another OEM license (yeah, talk about cashcowing! This violates the Doctrine of First Sale and I told him so - for which he didn't have an answer).

Here's a link to sco support on linux 2.2 to 2.4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41862891)

Looks like good information here for you

http://aplawrence.com/Linux/linuxabi.html

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