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Nike+ FuelBand: Possibly a Big Security Hole For Your Life

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the youtube-generation-wouldn't-even-flinch dept.

Security 162

MojoKid writes "Nike+ FuelBand is a $149 wristband with LED display that tracks your daily activity, tells you how many calories you've burned, lets you know how much fuel you have left in the tank, and basically keeps track of 'every move you make.' If you think that sounds like a privacy nightmare waiting to happen, it pretty much is. A source directly connected to Nike reported an amusing, albeit startling anecdote about a guy who got caught cheating on his girlfriend because of the Nike+ FuelBand. 'They shared their activity between each other and she noticed he was active at 1-2AM, when he was supposed to be home.' That's just one scenario. What if the wristband gets lost or stolen? How much data is actually stored on these sorts of devices? And remember, you're syncing it to the cloud with an iOS or Android app."

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162 comments

That's more tracking than intensive probation (4, Insightful)

NixieBunny (859050) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947471)

So... people voluntarily do this to themselves? Weird.

Re:That's more tracking than intensive probation (5, Insightful)

jhoegl (638955) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947797)

Clearly, the guy who was wearing the band forgot to take it off when he was into his laborous other activities.
This shows the ignorance people have of technology more than anything else.
This is how you subjugate a populace... make sure they are ignorant, make sure they get a benefit out of something, and then hide the real reason.
I mean, it worked for that one guy with the ring in that documentary I saw.

Re:That's more tracking than intensive probation (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948115)

*sigh* The Lord of the Rings was not a documentary.

Re:That's more tracking than intensive probation (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948195)

Clearly, the guy who was wearing the band forgot to take it off when he was into his laborous other activities.

As sensitive as this thing apparently is, no data would be a sign you took it off. If eating a slice of pizza can rack up more points than an actual walk, then imagine what scratching your ass in your sleep might do.

Re:That's more tracking than intensive probation (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41949417)

I assume that is has something to do with kinetics and motion, more than pulse.

For most of the people on Slashdot they would need to make sure that choose the correct wrist to place this on. Otherwise they would see a spike during certain online activities.

"Holy shit, were you being chased by a tiger for 45 seconds?"

Google Maps runner-tracking applications (1)

billstewart (78916) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947995)

There are some really nice applications out there for runners to track their regular runs and display them on Google Maps, and while I can see the appeal of having all that information sometimes, I'm not really thrilled with making it available to Google or whoever else has access to it. It sounds like a really good job for a PC-based mapping program.

I would assume that by now these things are implemented as iPhone/Android apps that use the GPS locations (or maybe less-granular cellular locations) so your phone will track you in real time while you're running, as well as showing your heartbeat and playing your music. And we'll start seeing lots more user interface and user experience, and the apps may track you more intensively than Angry Birds if you don't watch carefully.

Re:Google Maps runner-tracking applications (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948121)

Yeah the fuelband sure seems to be nothing in compared to stuff like:
Endomondo [endomondo.com]

Re:That's more tracking than intensive probation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41949155)

So... people voluntarily do this to themselves? Weird.

So...people actually think that a smartphone is any better? Weird.

what is the point of this article? (5, Informative)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947477)

Yes. It keeps track of what you're doing. You know this because you can see the data it captures.

And yes, if you share what you're doing with someone else, they might notice you aren't doing what you're supposed to be doing.

I don't understand the constant alarmism.

Re:what is the point of this article? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947535)

In this case I have to agree. Total non-story.

Re:what is the point of this article? (2)

Nimey (114278) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947613)

Clickbait.

Re:what is the point of this article? (2)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948639)

Clickbait.

Yes. It keeps track of what you're doing. You know this because you can see the data it captures.

And yes, if you share what you're doing with someone else, they might notice you aren't doing what you're supposed to be doing.

I don't understand the constant alarmism.

And the scary part is that the clickbait worked. Assuming it lives up to the hype, this is actually a rather cool product, exactly what I need.... :-D .... I wonder how accurate the calorie burn count is for different activities like static cycling, rowing or just general jogging/walking/hiking? Anybody ever used this thing? Privacy issues are a moot point, If the tracking ever gets creepy I can simply shut this thing off

Re:what is the point of this article? (4, Insightful)

fermion (181285) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947621)

This is the most lame privacy concern ever. Anyone who can't explain the could not sleep and went for a run a 1 in the morning either deserves or wants to get caught. So yes if you like to have sex with several different people without one knowing about the other, this is a bad device to have. But really, it does track location, take pictures, or lets you input incriminating text, like "1am, left gf house, picked up a random person, took home, and achieved real satisfaction.", just as a for instance.

You what is a real privacy and relationship killer. The pager. Can't tell you how many people have gotten into trouble because a partner read a page. Or mail. Can't tell you what receiving a postcard from a friend asking you to join on the next vacation does to a marriage. Or the phone. You never know when a spouse is going to answer by mistake. Or, seriously people, credit card bills. I mean many don't think about it, but credit card bills and receipts have gotten me into trouble on more than one occasion. Also, remember that every cell phone call you make, and Skype call for that matter, is listed in detail for anyone to see. Exactly., When. How long. Who. This is trouble in the making and no one should it. Everyone should be using a burner phone.

Re:what is the point of this article? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948187)

Everyone should be using a burner phone.

Since I don't seem to have any enemies, the only people I might conceivably be worried about getting my phone data would be the authorities. I don't store anything in my phone, and they can subpoena anything else that happens to be on it. I don't need a burner phone.

Re:what is the point of this article? GOOD POINT (1)

TheRealHocusLocus (2319802) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948947)

It's not about people failing to trust one another. It's about people trolling the Internet bored looking for exciting stories about hypothetical people who fail to trust one another, it's all about the blip in heart rate at 1AM, just the thought of that is supposed to make us go HMMMM... and trigger that lizard brain yearn for romantic gossip and gushing tabloid release.

Empirical test of hypothesis: for example, does this event generate tabloid excitement and sexual innuendo if I tell you it supposedly happened 'at 1AM'...?

"One day, a student caregiver noticed Figaro pushing a stone pebble through the aviary wire mesh, where it fell on a wood structural beam. Unable to retrieve the stone with his foot, Figaro then fetched a piece of bamboo and again attempted to retrieve the stone using the bamboo stick. ... "

Wow! What a rush.

Re:what is the point of this article? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947641)

Most of these "privacy concern" articles are things that can be handled by simply going home to your wife and kids when you are supposed to. Sounds like a lot of folks with these "privacy concerns" are just trying to hide their marital affairs.

Re:what is the point of this article? (4, Insightful)

jamesh (87723) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947757)

Most of these "privacy concern" articles are things that can be handled by simply going home to your wife and kids when you are supposed to. Sounds like a lot of folks with these "privacy concerns" are just trying to hide their marital affairs.

This is the problem with privacy. People take one very narrow slice of the pie and run with it. If you're cheating on your spouse and exposing him/her to disease etc then you get what you deserve, so I agree with you there, but what if you secretly liked to dress up in women's clothes and go dancing in the middle of the night, or attend late night screenings of Alan Smithee productions? Those are the sort of things that society in general would frown on but are really nobodies business but your own and your right to privacy should be protected.

That said, if you wear one of these while doing any of the above and then share that information with the world, you're an idiot.

Re:what is the point of this article? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947893)

but what if you secretly liked to dress up in women's clothes and go dancing in the middle of the night, or attend late night screenings of Alan Smithee productions?

Still,would be better to tell your wife early on, then to have her find out later.
But that's not the main problem : the problem is that since it's stored in the cloud, it could get compromised, and someone other than those you share it with can get your data.

For example, knowing your exact activity log can be very useful for criminals :
- They know where you live
- They know where and when you will be at work, and when you will be back
- They know you go jogging the same route in the woods every evening.

Really, all they need to do is be waiting there where you go jogging, knock you down in a place no one can see it, take your keys and empty your house.

Precisely the problem (4, Interesting)

Sun (104778) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947769)

Most of these "privacy concern" articles are things that can be handled by simply going home to your wife and kids when you are supposed to. Sounds like a lot of folks with these "privacy concerns" are just trying to hide their marital affairs.

Or, the way law enforcement usually phrase this, "if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide".

While I agree with the original commenter that this story is lame, because people see exactly what is logged, this comment is precisely why privacy matters.

Giving up privacy means pushing people toward conformity. Everyone are pressured to behave the same, because any deviation from what is normal is immediately shown to everyone. This means complete stagnation.

I have never cheated on a partner. Furthermore, I have had a partner cheat on me, and the feeling is horrid. Having said that, a society in which cheating is impossible is not one I would like to live in.

Shachar

Re:what is the point of this article? (2)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947881)

Hey, smooshing genitals together with people you're not married to is an inalienable right!

Re:what is the point of this article? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948991)

Yeah and if guns are outlawed, only criminals will have guns, right?

Re:what is the point of this article? (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947645)

Privacy means you can do whatever you want and people can't see! Don't you understand?! If I am dry-humping a billy goat in front of an Italian restaurant bay window, the people taking pictures of me and posting them on reddit is an INVASION OF PRIVACY!!!!!!!!11

Re:what is the point of this article? (1)

fm6 (162816) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947653)

I think the "alarmism" comes in when the data sharing is unintentional.

Re:what is the point of this article? (2)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947725)

Plus, it doesn't even remotely apply to anyone on Slashdot, because it involves physical activity.

Re:what is the point of this article? (2)

Chrisq (894406) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948417)

Plus, it doesn't even remotely apply to anyone on Slashdot, because it involves physical activity.

But it also involves digital watches!

Re:what is the point of this article? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947739)

What if I buy one and hide it in your car, Mr. Script?

Re:what is the point of this article? (1)

chrismcb (983081) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947871)

I don't get it either. So if the girlfriend called, or stopped by at that time she might also have discovered he was not there.
So what if you lost this... "hey boss, look, this guy was at the gym at 2pm..."

Re:what is the point of this article? (5, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947915)

Yes. It keeps track of what you're doing. You know this because you can see the data it captures.

Yes, you can see the data that it captures. What you can't see is all of the things which that data may reveal about you in the hands of someone motivated enough. Don't confuse the forest with the trees - the anecdote about the guy getting caught cheating is not about the risk of getting caught cheating, it is the risk of "20/20 hindsight." In retrospect it is obvious that his data would reveal something like that to a suspicios girlfriend. But at the time it was not so obvious, it isn't like he deliberately uploaded a message that said "having sex with another girl @1am" to the nike website.

Pervasive data collection is extremely new, we as a society have not figured out all of the risks involved. Contrast that to "living in a small town" - because society has had millenia of experience with that situation we generally have a good understanding of the risks involved. It is going to take a lot of people finding out the hard way what the problems are with pervasive data collection before we, if we ever, come to understand the trade-offs that come along with it.

Re:what is the point of this article? (1)

zill (1690130) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947941)

GP's point is that the user willingly brought the device, willingly let it record their lives, and willingly shared that data with a third party.

If I wear a T-shirt with my root password on it, then I deserve every bad thing that's coming to me. It's not my OS' fault nor my T-shirt's fault; I only have my own stupidity to blame.

Re:what is the point of this article? (1, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948183)

GP's point is that the user willingly brought the device, willingly let it record their lives, and willingly shared that data with a third party.

And my point is that his decisions were not fully informed and given the lack of experience we as a society have with panopticon-type personal information gathering it is a randian pipedream to expect the average joe to be fully informed. Especially when the people selling the product have an interest in downplaying such risks in order to keep sales up.

Re:what is the point of this article? (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948453)

And my point is that his decisions were not fully informed

Idiots' decisions never are.

Re:what is the point of this article? (2)

DarkOx (621550) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948673)

I think he was fully informed he had just not thought things thru. The guy knew what the device did an how it worked. Its pretty open about exactly what it logs.

Lets not conflate carelessness and idiocy with being uniformed. It should be enough from my to label something "toxic", I don't see why I have to sit you down and explain why drinking a quart of it might have negative consequences, for the folks who can't work that out for themselves its Darwinism at its best.

Re:what is the point of this article? (1)

12WTF$ (979066) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948189)

"So, what is your root password?" **

Hey that's MY pickup line!

**Warning: May only be valid in British English speaking countries.

Re:what is the point of this article? (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947971)

Yeah, next there'll be an article about the dangers of pen and paper, as all the people keeping diaries are invading their own privacy.

Re:what is the point of this article? (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948681)

Well someone should get that warning at some point, and they ought to be smart enough to generalize it to the digital world. Mom gave me some good advice when I was a kid that has served me very well.

  "Never write anything down you don't want someone else to read."

Just desserts? (1, Offtopic)

Gothmolly (148874) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947485)

For being a techno-iHipster? Seriously, who needs a $149 motion tracking wristband?

Re:Just desserts? (1)

SomePgmr (2021234) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947549)

I'd wager that all of us have quite a few things we don't need. Seems like an odd criteria to judge people by.

Re:Just desserts? (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947661)

I'd pay $150 for a wristband that could ONLY tell me accurately how many calories I've burned. That alone is a real (slight pun intended) life saver

Re:Just desserts? (5, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947705)

I'd pay $150 for a wristband that could ONLY tell me accurately how many calories I've burned.

Well, this can't do that [nytimes.com] . In fact, it can't do much of anything.

Re:Just desserts? (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947999)

For being a techno-iHipster? Seriously, who needs a $149 motion tracking wristband?

iHipster? So the iOS users of this product are different than the Android users somehow?

Re:Just desserts? (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948583)

So the iOS users of this product are different than the Android users

I think so. Didn't the guy in the article got caught cheating with a girl?

Are you serious? (-1, Offtopic)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947501)

Since I can't think of anything worthwhile to say on this subject other than "yeah, whatever" since it's some cheap dorky product being abused by vapid boring yuppies... I thought instead I would offer up this filthy sea shanty, which is MUCH more amusing:

Twas on the good ship Venus,
By God you should have seen us,
The figurehead was a whore in bed
And the mast the Captainâ(TM)s penis.

The captain of this lugger,
He was a dirty bugger,
He wasnâ(TM)t fit to shovel shit
From one ship to another.

The captainâ(TM)s wife was Mabel.
Whenever she was able,
Sheâ(TM)d fornicate with the second mate
Upon the galley table.

The cabin boy was Kipper,
A dirty little nipper,
We stuffed his arse with broken glass
To circumcise the skipper.

The captain had a daughter,
Who fell into the water,
We heard her squeal and knew an eel
Had found her sexual quarter.

The second mateâ(TM)s name was Andy,
His balls were long and bandy,
We filled his arse with molten brass
For wanking in the brandy.

The captainâ(TM)s name was Morgan,
By Christ he was a gorgon!
Ten times a day sweet tunes heâ(TM)s play.
On his productive organ.

The captainâ(TM)s daughter Mable,
They laid her on a table!
And all the crew would come and screw
As oft as they were able.

âoeTwas on a Chinese station,
We caused a great sensation.
We sunk a junk in a sea of spunk
By mutual masturbation.

Another cook was Oâ(TM)Malley,
He didnâ(TM)t dilly dally.
He shot his bolt with such a jolt
He whitewashed half the galley.

Re:Are you serious? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947587)

Reminds me of "The Great Rock and Roll Swindle" album.

lamest.... slashdot ... article... ever (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947523)

facepalm.

Re:lamest.... slashdot ... article... ever (2)

Black Parrot (19622) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948015)

facepalm.

It should have been "Ask Slashdot: What do I tell my girlfriend when...".

I guess I'm weird... (1)

TWX (665546) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947533)

...because I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for cheaters, and the choice in a story citing the privacy issues as felt by a cheater don't really give me any feeling of a cause.

And, if you choose to use a tracking device then you should know that you're subjecting yourself to being tracked. Nearly all of us do with our cell phones, but some go much further, with things like those insurance trackers, or leaving the GPS enabled on the phone, or the like.

If there were a way to have a smartphone without having the ability to be tracked, I think that a lot of people would sign up for that. Unfortunately all that we can now do is hope that the companies that we have agreements with follow the law and only surrender information when it's requested through warrants, which doesn't seem to be the policy these days.

he deserved it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947537)

he deserved it.

This is FUD (5, Informative)

DesertBlade (741219) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947543)

I actually own a Fuelband, unlike to poster and the original story. It is basically a pedometer, sensing motion, nothing else. No or any other thing to guide them to my house. It sends information to the cloud, but has a lot less info than facebook. You can actually sign up for an account its free and see how little is actually stored. I be more worried about the data on my phone or in my wallet, both which will lead someone to my house, than on this thing.

Re:This is FUD (1)

commlinx (1068272) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947627)

Thanks for the clarification. I'd assumed from TFS it was GPS data.

It probably makes the anecdote suspect as well unless he's a good cheater but poor liar. I assume the sort of people who buy these products are the kind who might have trouble sleeping and end up doing a little excercise or go for a jog in the early hours.

Re:This is FUD (4, Funny)

Sarten-X (1102295) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947633)

Didn't you read the summary? It tracks every move you make, just like GPS vehicle trackers, RFID door keys, and a jingle bell on your kid's shoelace. Clearly this is something worthy of widespread panic.

Re:This is FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947701)

That is what a pedometer is supposed to do. Please lookup what a pedometer is.

Re:This is FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947835)

Pretty sure a pedometer isn't supposed to track every motion you make. I'm usually more interested in my daily walking and running distance, and not say a combined walking distance and number of letters typed at the keyboard count.

Re:This is FUD (1)

chrismcb (983081) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947867)

every move you make,

I know you are trying to pedantic, but it doesn't actually track your every move... It tracks whether you are active or not. That is much different than a GPS device tracking your every move.

Re:This is FUD (5, Funny)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948003)

Didn't you read the summary? It tracks every move you make, just like GPS vehicle trackers, RFID door keys, and a jingle bell on your kid's shoelace. Clearly this is something worthy of widespread panic.

Not just every move you make - also (per the summary) it tracks every step you take, every vow you break, and every smile you fake.

It'll be watching you.

Re:This is FUD (1)

bluemonq (812827) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947703)

Is it really that friggin' difficult to read the summary? 'They shared their activity between each other and she noticed he was active at 1-2AM, when he was supposed to be home.' She didn't gain access to his location, he gained access to the fact that he was moving around. Presumably on most days, he would be asleep, as opposed to being active.

Fitbit does some of this, but no location tracking (1, Informative)

aurizon (122550) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947547)

It is a high end pedometer, that you can link to friends, total stairs climbed etc, quite good actually. Operates on low power wifi as well as a charging dock, runs for 7-10 days between charges.

Best you read about it here. http://www.fitbit.com/home [fitbit.com]

Re:Fitbit does some of this, but no location track (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947569)

I have a Fitbit. It's just a fun way to track some of my activity levels. I do heavy compound lifts 3 times a week/try to make it a habit to walk a lot, take the stairs etc on off days. I also like to track my calories, thus giving me an idea of what my intake and output is daily. Yes it's overkill, no it's not necessary, but I find it fun to track these things and it has certainly made my weight loss/strength gain goals much easier to achieve.

Same with this Nike thing-- maybe it's not YOUR thing, but some people like to track this shit. Let them have their fun.

Re:Fitbit does some of this, but no location track (2)

fishybell (516991) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947649)

Having the fitbit myself I can say yes, I can share that I'm active in the middle of the night with some torrid affair, or, being slightly aware of my actions, just take it off during said torrid affair. I can then just say I forgot to push the sleep button the night of indiscretion, and nothing more than that would ever be known (assuming I actually were having an affair, or had a girlfriend/wife to have an affair with....geez, when did FUD become so depressing...).

Fitbit uploading to Twitter (1)

billstewart (78916) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947979)

Several of my friends use Fitbits, and one of them has it set to upload to Twitter with her daily distance count. (Wow, she puts on a lot of miles!) I don't know if it's providing more detail at her fitbit website, or if all the detail stays on her home computer (I'm guessing the latter.)

Re:Fitbit does some of this, but no location track (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947981)

I was thinking of getting this until I realized there was no Android app...

Re:Fitbit does some of this, but no location track (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948883)

There is an Android app. It's not great, and really just acts as a mobile version of the desktop site, but it exists.

Re:Fitbit does some of this, but no location track (1)

rhsanborn (773855) | about a year and a half ago | (#41949263)

Fitbit and Fuelband to essentially the same thing. FuelBand doesn't do GPS either. If you wear your FitBit in bed, or had it on when you went to the girlfriends house at 1am and then share that data with your wife, you too can be caught in exactly the same way the FuelBand guy was. I too have a FitBit and I do wear it to bed (it's supposed to track the quality of your sleep).

I wont be using this piece of crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947557)

So why would I want to share that kind of information? If you want to know what I'm up, you're going to need a whole
lot of cameras and sensors all over the place, because I am surely not going to help you by wearing a tracking device.
Obviously this is to gather location and activity data, both for medical "research" and for research into personal mobility.
Nike: Go fuck yourselves.

Re:I wont be using this piece of crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948079)

Nike, and the rest of the universe couldn't possibly care any less about you jacking off in your moms basement

wow - 1 hour! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947575)

The guy managed to be active for a whole hour? surely either the data cannot be trusted or he should be issued a medal

Share account information + cheat = caught. Duh (1)

raymorris (2726007) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947615)

Hmm, so if you explicitly share your information with someone in a trusting relationship, then you break that trust and screw them over, you might get caught. The person you gave the information to might see something in the information you gave them. Where's the news in this? Just like if you share a phone account with your GF and you're calling another woman at 1AM, she might notice. Duh. Don't fake trust (like by sharing an account) and then go cheat on her. This warning was documented over 2000 years ago.

Wrist activity? (4, Funny)

jamesh (87723) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947713)

If you wear the thing on your wrist and it detects motion then I would have thought that the excuse "I woke up in the middle of the night and was thinking about you" would have been plausible...

Re:Wrist activity? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948685)

That is exactly as ridiculous as "Click like if you would never cheat on your girlfriend" So I see you didnt click like , therefore you are cheating or "It took you 15 minutes to get home, Google maps says it take 12, WHO IS SHE?!?!?!"

Avoiding one situation is surely important enough to not exercise.. totally FSKING ridiculous!

This reminds me of the time . . . (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#41947733)

This reminds me of the time I tried to use Google Latitude, but it seemed to require that you update your location in new locations. Since I live and work at home, it was always "here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here" and Latitude simply didn't grok it.

Long story short: Google discriminates against hermits.

Re:This reminds me of the time . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948295)

So do i!

Now go outside so i can get some good location data!

Personal Experience? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947925)

So, it looks like mojokid got caught out on being a two-timer. Good riddance.

Shitter was full! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41947965)

Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care - Government & Stealth Malware

In Response To Slashdot Article: Former Pentagon Analyst: China Has Backdoors To 80% of Telecoms 87

How many rootkits does the US[2] use officially or unofficially?

How much of the free but proprietary software in the US spies on you?

Which software would that be?

Visit any of the top freeware sites in the US, count the number of thousands or millions of downloads of free but proprietary software, much of it works, again on a proprietary Operating System, with files stored or in transit.

How many free but proprietary programs have you downloaded and scanned entire hard drives, flash drives, and other media? Do you realize you are giving these types of proprietary programs complete access to all of your computer's files on the basis of faith alone?

If you are an atheist, the comparison is that you believe in code you cannot see to detect and contain malware on the basis of faith! So you do believe in something invisible to you, don't you?

I'm now going to touch on a subject most anti-malware, commercial or free, developers will DELETE on most of their forums or mailing lists:

APT malware infecting and remaining in BIOS, on PCI and AGP devices, in firmware, your router (many routers are forced to place backdoors in their firmware for their government) your NIC, and many other devices.

Where are the commercial or free anti-malware organizations and individual's products which hash and compare in the cloud and scan for malware for these vectors? If you post on mailing lists or forums of most anti-malware organizations about this threat, one of the following actions will apply: your post will be deleted and/or moved to a hard to find or 'deleted/junk posts' forum section, someone or a team of individuals will mock you in various forms 'tin foil hat', 'conspiracy nut', and my favorite, 'where is the proof of these infections?' One only needs to search Google for these threats and they will open your malware world view to a much larger arena of malware on devices not scanned/supported by the scanners from these freeware sites. This point assumed you're using the proprietary Microsoft Windows OS. Now, let's move on to Linux.

The rootkit scanners for Linux are few and poor. If you're lucky, you'll know how to use chkrootkit (but you can use strings and other tools for analysis) and show the strings of binaries on your installation, but the results are dependent on your capability of deciphering the output and performing further analysis with various tools or in an environment such as Remnux Linux. None of these free scanners scan the earlier mentioned areas of your PC, either! Nor do they detect many of the hundreds of trojans and rootkits easily available on popular websites and the dark/deep web.

Compromised defenders of Linux will look down their nose at you (unless they are into reverse engineering malware/bad binaries, Google for this and Linux and begin a valuable education!) and respond with a similar tone, if they don't call you a noob or point to verifying/downloading packages in a signed repo/original/secure source or checking hashes, they will jump to conspiracy type labels, ignore you, lock and/or shuffle the thread, or otherwise lead you astray from learning how to examine bad binaries. The world of Linux is funny in this way, and I've been a part of it for many years. The majority of Linux users, like the Windows users, will go out of their way to lead you and say anything other than pointing you to information readily available on detailed binary file analysis.

Don't let them get you down, the information is plenty and out there, some from some well known publishers of Linux/Unix books. Search, learn, and share the information on detecting and picking through bad binaries. But this still will not touch the void of the APT malware described above which will survive any wipe of r/w media. I'm convinced, on both *nix and Windows, these pieces of APT malware are government in origin. Maybe not from the US, but most of the 'curious' malware I've come across in poisoned binaries, were written by someone with a good knowledge in English, some, I found, functioned similar to the now well known Flame malware. From my experience, either many forum/mailing list mods and malware developers/defenders are 'on the take', compromised themselves, and/or working for a government entity.

Search enough, and you'll arrive at some lone individuals who cry out their system is compromised and nothing in their attempts can shake it of some 'strange infection'. These posts receive the same behavior as I said above, but often they are lone posts which receive no answer at all, AT ALL! While other posts are quickly and kindly replied to and the 'strange infection' posts are left to age and end up in a lost pile of old threads.

If you're persistent, the usual challenge is to, "prove it or STFU" and if the thread is not attacked or locked/shuffled and you're lucky to reference some actual data, they will usually attack or ridicule you and further drive the discussion away from actual proof of APT infections.

The market is ripe for an ambitious company or individual to begin demanding companies and organizations who release firmware and design hardware to release signed and hashed packages and pour this information into the cloud, so everyone's BIOS is checked, all firmware on routers, NICs, and other devices are checked, and malware identified and knowledge reported and shared openly.

But even this will do nothing to stop backdoored firmware (often on commercial routers and other networked devices of real importance for government use - which again opens the possibility of hackers discovering these backdoors) people continue to use instead of refusing to buy hardware with proprietary firmware/software.

Many people will say, "the only safe computer is the one disconnected from any network, wireless, wired, LAN, internet, intranet" but I have seen and you can search yourself for and read about satellite, RF, temperature, TEMPEST (is it illegal in your part of the world to SHIELD your system against some of these APT attacks, especially TEMPEST? And no, it's not simply a CRT issue), power line and many other attacks which can and do strike computers which have no active network connection, some which have never had any network connection. Some individuals have complained they receive APT attacks throughout their disconnected systems and they are ridiculed and labeled as a nutter. The information exists, some people have gone so far as to scream from the rooftops online about it, but they are nutters who must have some serious problems and this technology with our systems could not be possible.

I believe most modern computer hardware is more powerful than many of us imagine, and a lot of these systems swept from above via satellite and other attacks. Some exploits take advantage of packet radio and some of your proprietary hardware. Some exploits piggyback and unless you really know what you're doing, and even then... you won't notice it.

Back to the Windows users, a lot of them will dismiss any strange activity to, "that's just Windows!" and ignore it or format again and again only to see the same APT infected activity continue. Using older versions of sysinternals, I've observed very bizarre behavior on a few non networked systems, a mysterious chat program running which doesn't exist on the system, all communication methods monitored (bluetooth, your hard/software modems, and more), disk mirroring software running[1], scans running on different but specific file types, command line versions of popular Windows freeware installed on the system rather than the use of the graphical component, and more.

[1] In one anonymous post on pastebin, claiming to be from an intel org, it blasted the group Anonymous, with a bunch of threats and information, including that their systems are all mirrored in some remote location anyway.

[2] Or other government, US used in this case due to the article source and speculation vs. China. This is not to defend China, which is one messed up hell hole on several levels and we all need to push for human rights and freedom for China's people. For other, freer countries, however, the concentration camps exist but you wouldn't notice them, they originate from media, mostly your TV, and you don't even know it. As George Carlin railed about "Our Owners", "nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care".

[3] http://www.stallman.org/ [stallman.org]

Try this yourself on a wide variety of internet forums and mailing lists, push for malware scanners to scan more than files, but firmware/BIOS. See what happens, I can guarantee it won't be pleasant, especially with APT cases.

So scan away, or blissfully ignore it, but we need more people like RMS[3] in the world. Such individuals tend to be eccentric but their words ring true and clear about electronics and freedom.

I believe we're mostly pwned, whether we would like to admit it or not, blind and pwned, yet fiercely holding to misinformation, often due to lack of self discovery and education, and "nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care".
#

Schneier has covered it before: power line fluctuations (differences on the wire in keys pressed).

There's thermal attacks against cpus and temp, also:

ENF (google it)

A treat (ENF Collector in Java):

sourceforge dot net fwdslash projects fwdslash nfienfcollector

No single antimalware scanner exists which offers the ability to scan (mostly proprietary) firmware on AGP/PCI devices (sound cards, graphics cards, usb novelty devices excluding thumb drives), BIOS/CMOS.

If you boot into ultimate boot cd you can use an archane text interface to dump BIOS/CMOS and examine/checksum.

The real attacks which survive disk formats and wipes target your PCI devices and any firmware which may be altered/overwritten with something special. It is not enough to scan your hard drive(s) and thumb drives, the real dangers with teeth infect your hardware devices.

When is the last time you:

Audited your sound card for malware? Audited your graphics card for malware? Audited your network card for malware?

Google for:

        AGP and PCI rootkit(s)
        Network card rootkit(s)
        BIOS/CMOS rootkit(s)

Our modern PC hardware is capable of much more than many can imagine.

Do you:

        Know your router's firmware may easily be replaced on a hacker's whim?
        Shield all cables against leakage and attacks
        Still use an old CRT monitor and beg for TEMPEST attacks?
        Use TEMPEST resistant fonts in all of your applications including your OS?
        Know whether or not your wired keyboard has keypresses encrypted as they pass to your PC from the keyboard?
        Use your PC on the grid and expose yourself to possible keypress attacks?
        Know your network card is VERY exploitable when plugged into the net and attacked by a hard core blackhat or any vicious geek with the know how?
        Search out informative papers on these subjects and educate your friends and family about these attacks?
        Contact antimalware companies and urge them to protect against many or all these attacks?

Do you trust your neighbors? Are they all really stupid when it comes to computing or is there a geek or two without a conscience looking to exploit these areas?

The overlooked threat are the potential civilian rogues stationed around you, especially in large apartment blocks who feed on unsecured wifi to do their dirty work.

With the recent news of Russian spies, whether or not this news was real or a psyop, educate yourself on the present threats which all antimalware scanners fail to protect against and remove any smug mask you may wear, be it Linux or OpenBSD, or the proprietary Windows and Mac OS you feel are properly secured and not vulnerable to any outside attacks because you either don't need an antivirus scanner (all are inept to serious attacks) or use one or several (many being proprietary mystery machines sending data to and from your machine for many reasons, one is to share your information with a group or set database to help aid in threats), the threats often come in mysterious ways.

Maybe the ancients had it right: stone tablets and their own unique language(s) rooted in symbolism.

#

I'm more concerned about new rootkits which target PCI devices, such as the graphics card and the optical drives, also, BIOS. Where are the malware scanners which scan PCI devices and BIOS for mismatches? All firmware, BIOS and on PCI devices should be checksummed and saved to match with others in the cloud, and archived when the computer is first used, backing up signed firmware.

When do you recall seeing signed router firmware upgrades with any type of checksum to check against? Same for PCI devices and optical drives and BIOS.

Some have begun with BIOS security:

http://www.biosbits.org/ [biosbits.org]

Some BIOS has write protection in its configuration, a lot of newer computers don't.

#

"Disconnect your PC from the internet and don't add anything you didn't create yourself. It worked for the NOC list machine in Mission Impossible"

The room/structure was likely heavily shielded, whereas most civvies don't shield their house and computer rooms. There is more than meets the eye to modern hardware.

Google:

subversion hack: tagmeme(dot)com/subhack/

network card rootkits and trojans pci rootkits packet radio xmit "fm fingerprinting" software "specific emitter identification" forums(dot)qrz(dot)com

how many malware scanners scan bios/cmos and pci/agp cards for malware? zero, even the rootkit scanners. have you checksummed/dumped your bios/cmos and firmware for all your pci/agp devices and usb devices, esp vanity usb devices in and outside the realm of common usb devices (thumbdrives, external hdds, printers),

Unless your computer room is shielded properly, the computers may still be attacked and used, I've personally inspected computers with no network connection running mysterious code in the background which task manager for windows and the eqiv for *nix does not find, and this didn't find it all.

Inspect your windows boot partition in *nix with hexdump and look for proxy packages mentioned along with command line burning programs and other oddities. Computers are more vulnerable than most would expect.

You can bet all of the malware scanners today, unless they are developed by some lone indy coder in a remote country, employ whitelisting of certain malware and none of them scan HARDWARE devices apart from the common usb devices.

Your network cards, sound cards, cd/dvd drives, graphics cards, all are capable of carrying malware to survive disk formatting/wiping.

Boot from a Linux live cd and use hexdump to examine your windows (and *nix) boot sectors to potentially discover interesting modifications by an unknown party.

# eof
#

new file

Memorable quotes for Looker (1981) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/quotes [imdb.com]

"John Reston: Television can control public opinion more effectively than armies of secret police, because television is entirely voluntary. The American government forces our children to attend school, but nobody forces them to watch T.V. Americans of all ages submit to television. Television is the American ideal. Persuasion without coercion. Nobody makes us watch. Who could have predicted that a free people would voluntarily spend one fifth of their lives sitting in front of a box with pictures? Fifteen years sitting in prison is punishment. But 15 years sitting in front of a television set is entertainment. And the average American now spends more than one and a half years of his life just watching television commercials. Fifty minutes, every day of his life, watching commercials. Now, that's power."
#

"The United States has it's own propaganda, but it's very effective because people don't realize that it's propaganda. And it's subtle, but it's actually a much stronger propaganda machine than the Nazis had but it's funded in a different way. With the Nazis it was funded by the government, but in the United States, it's funded by corporations and corporations they only want things to happen that will make people want to buy stuff. So whatever that is, then that is considered okay and good, but that doesn't necessarily mean it really serves people's thinking - it can stupify and make not very good things happen." - Crispin Glover: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000417/bio [imdb.com]
#

"It's only logical to assume that conspiracies are everywhere, because that's what people do. They conspire. If you can't get the message, get the man." - Mel Gibson (from an interview)
#

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William Casey, CIA Director
#

"The real reason for the official secrecy, in most instances, is not to keep the opposition (the CIA's euphemistic term for the enemy) from knowing what is going on; the enemy usually does know. The basic reason for governmental secrecy is to keep you, the American public, from knowing - for you, too, are considered the opposition, or enemy - so that you cannot interfere. When the public does not know what the government or the CIA is doing, it cannot voice its approval or disapproval of their actions. In fact, they can even lie to your about what they are doing or have done, and you will not know it. As for the second advantage, despite frequent suggestion that the CIA is a rogue elephant, the truth is that the agency functions at the direction of and in response to the office of the president. All of its major clandestine operations are carried out with the direct approval of or on direct orders from the White House. The CIA is a secret tool of the president - every president. And every president since Truman has lied to the American people in order to protect the agency. When lies have failed, it has been the duty of the CIA to take the blame for the president, thus protecting him. This is known in the business as "plausible denial." The CIA, functioning as a secret instrument of the U.S. government and the presidency, has long misused and abused history and continues to do so." - Victor Marchetti, Propaganda and Disinformation: How the CIA Manufactures History
#

George Carlin:

"The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.

You know what they want? Obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club.

This country is finished."
#

We now return you Americans to your media: Corporate, Government sponsored and controlled (rigged) elections..

Most of you are all so asleep it's time you woke up!

people problem, not technology. (1)

Barryke (772876) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948005)

Thats not a technology problem, its a human problem.

What a stupid example.

He didn't take it off intentionally... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948223)

Clearly, he was so determined to lose calories that he made some extra work out during he night... And how do you work out if not with Nike+?

It's simple (1)

WankerWeasel (875277) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948283)

How about you just don't cheat on your partner and you should be fine. I have an UP. It's great (other than they break all the times requiring them to be replaced by Jawbone. I'm on my 10th). No worries about privacy. I choose to share the info I choose to share with others. Just like I choose to share the pictures I choose to share on Facebook. Should I lost my UP (pretty hard when it's firmly wrapped around your wrist all the time), people can't get the info from it. If you plug the band into a new iPhone, the app will alert you that the band has not been synced with that phone before. It then gives you the option to sync it with the new phone (which wipes any previous data) or to cancel.

i dont think the poster understands what privacy i (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948311)

See, a breach in privacy is when people find out personal information about you that you DIDNT share with them. When youre just stupid and share things you shouldnt, thats your own fault!

Hang on a minute... (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948435)

tells you how many calories you've burned, lets you know how much fuel you have left in the tank,

If you live in pretty much any Western country, you have not burned enough calories and you've got way more than you need left in the tank.

Stop dicking about with gadgets and get back on that bike. Seriously, it's a lovely day outside and you need to pedal off all that overprocessed greasy food.

Breaking news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948489)

Guy who shares tracking information gets tracked by person he shared it with.

Next story, girlfriend goes through boyfriends SMS messages and...

Re:Breaking news (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | about a year and a half ago | (#41948593)

And of course: Guy who voluntarily carries a tracking device doesn't remove it in situations where he doesn't want to be tracked.

'What if the wristband gets lost or stolen?' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41948849)

Then you will be able to track the perpetrator down. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Micormanaging calories (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41949041)

Micromanaging your calorie intake is a rediculous way to live your day. Just remember to get on the bike or go for a jog, and don't eat so much fatty and sugary foods.

Oh God!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41949115)

Some technology that you use volenteerily to track your own movement...check
Someone stupid enough not to monitor their own information like a responsible adult...check
Someone stupid enough to share said data...check
= Stupid article on Slashdot about the destruction of privacy!

a. The user tracks their own data
b. The government is not involved, and will still need a court order to get that data
c. The user is not forced to use the wrist watch
d. THIS IS NOT A BREACH OF PRIVACY SLASHDOT

I think we should combine Gizmondo and Slashdot into Gizdot so that I can have all the bullshit tech articles in one location saving me time and bandwidth.

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