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Gabe Newell Confirms Source 2 Engine

samzenpus posted about a year and a half ago | from the coming-soon dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 88

dotarray writes "Valve's Gabe Newell has confirmed that they are building the Source 2 engine, but haven't yet had the game to roll it out with. From the article: 'If you're not smiling yet, you'll definitely be doing so after you hear how the announcement was made. It was Gabe Newell's birthday on November 3rd, and 4Chan's /v/ (videogames) board decided to pay him a surprise visit. In addition to an enormous birthday card signed by many of /v/'s regulars, they also gave him an an actual Mann-Co crate, which he had to pay $2.50 to unlock in order to receive the gift of a combat helmet similar to the one worn by the Team Fortress 2 soldier. Irony at its best.'"

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88 comments

Next Valve Game (5, Funny)

DevTechb (2772901) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959517)

Don't read this if you don't want to know before announcement, but the next Valve game will have a 3 in its name!

Re:Next Valve Game (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41959549)

Left 4 Dead 3 it is then.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

Pseudonym (62607) | about a year and a half ago | (#41962113)

You mean Left 3 Dead.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41959563)

So, it's Portal 3?!

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

AaronLS (1804210) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959565)

I wonder if they'll call other games silly things like Counter-Strike: Source 2 and TF: Source 2

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

Tr3vin (1220548) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959719)

It depends, will they release a new port of the game using the newer Source 2 engine? If so, the new name is a logical way of differentiating between the two.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | about a year and a half ago | (#41963857)

I wonder if they'll call other games silly things like Counter-Strike: Source 2 and TF: Source 2

Given that they have Counter-Strike: Global Offensive and Team Fortress 2 already, your names seem a bit off... it's be Counter-Strike: Global Offensive: Source 2 and Team Fortress 2: Source 2.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

AaronLS (1804210) | about a year and a half ago | (#41971733)

Good point. Probably will drive extra sales when someone's who isn't familiar with the franchise, hears about it from a friend and goes online and buys 3 other games before they buy the right one.

Maybe they'll sell them in a pack together called:
Ridiculous Names Source 2: FYI There Was No One

Re:Next Valve Game (2)

Cley Faye (1123605) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959575)

Nonsense; we all know it's going to be half-life 2 episode 2.1!

Re:Next Valve Game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41959579)

Team Fortress 3?
Portal 3?
Left 4 Dead 3?
DOTA 3?
Half Life 2 Episode 3?
Half Life 3?

Pretty much every one of their franchises is up to #3.

Re:Next Valve Game (3, Funny)

ZankerH (1401751) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960155)

They could just release a new Orange Box with all of them and call it "Valve's 3: The Game".

Re:Next Valve Game (2)

newspapercrane (1821690) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960505)

Shut up and take my money.

Re:Next Valve Game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41961785)

Now with More Valve!

Re:Next Valve Game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41960175)

The best explanation for this that I've heard is that they just don't know what number comes after 2.

Re:Next Valve Game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41965575)

of course not, they're computer guys, they use binary

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

HCase (533294) | about a year and a half ago | (#41967443)

Nope, The game is actually just titled '3'. They haven't released any gameplay details yet though.

Re:Next Valve Game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41959585)

Half Life 3. Portal 3. Team Fortress 3. Left4Dead 3. I like that you kept it vague knowing everything on Source2 will be *Game* 3. Tally-ho my good sir.

Re:Next Valve Game (1, Funny)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959595)

Yeah, it's bee "The 3 Musketeers", followed by "The 3 Musketeers 2", followed by something completely different.

Re:Next Valve Game (2)

Enderandrew (866215) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959631)

Valve hasn't had a Half-Life game since the Orange Box made its way to consoles. I don't think that is a coincidence. I think Valve realized that current-gen consoles are limited. They had to squeeze Source onto existing hardware, and it didn't leave much room for innovation.

I think what you're going to see is Valve negotiate with Sony and Microsoft with the next-gen of consoles in the 2013 holiday season. Either they allow Steam to operate on their networks and consoles directly, or Valve comes to market with their own console and competes with them. Either way, Half Life 3 with have a Holiday 2013 release on consoles and PCs simultaneously.

Re:Next Valve Game (2)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959829)

Portal is Half-Life. Don't forget that.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959885)

They exist in the same universe on some level (Portal references Black Mesa), but they are different franchises.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960295)

It more than just references, they are described as direct competitors...

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

Pseudonym (62607) | about a year and a half ago | (#41962123)

Aperture is also mentioned in HL2:Ep2. But of course you knew that.

Re:Next Valve Game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41962273)

Calling it now: HL3 involves Gordon finding the portal gun and sciencing it with the gravity gun to create a time-travel gun.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

Pseudonym (62607) | about a year and a half ago | (#41962747)

HL3: Braid

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

Hatta (162192) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959939)

Portal is Half-Life in the same way that Ultima Underworld is Ultima or Privateer is Wing Commander, or Heroes of Might and Magic is Might and Magic. Loosely related, but not the same at all.

Re:Next Valve Game (3, Insightful)

milbournosphere (1273186) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960269)

They may be loosely related NOW, but one could predict that there might be a crossing of plot-arcs in HL3. Episode 2 seems to imply that players will soon be visiting the Borealis, which may or may not contain a trip to a testing chamber of some kind. Will we meet GlaDOS? Probably not. But if I had to guess, I'd think that we'll be seeing a lot more than references to Aperture Science in Half Life 3.

Re:Next Valve Game (2)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960291)

Not to mention Black Mesa is (repeatedly) referred to as a competitor to Aperture Science.

I fully expect the two divergent plots to merge. Keeping in mind that (spoiler):

You do escape, in Portal 2, bringing the gravity gun and your leg braces out into the world. Who knows where it goes from there? Only Valve's writers.

Re:Next Valve Game (2)

partyguerrilla (1597357) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960871)

I fully expect the two divergent plots to merge. Keeping in mind that (spoiler):

Yeah, that's what we said about Half Life: Opposing Force, and apparently now it never officially happened.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

ocdscouter (1922930) | about a year and a half ago | (#41962241)

I fully expect the two divergent plots to merge. Keeping in mind that (spoiler):

Yeah, that's what we said about Half Life: Opposing Force, and apparently now it never officially happened.

I think this is a different situation, in that Opposing Force was developed primarily by Gearbox (if I recall correctly), as opposed to the Portal franchise, which is developed by Valve itself.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

partyguerrilla (1597357) | about a year and a half ago | (#41966983)

Well, Portal is developed by Valve in the sense CounterStrike was developed by Valve: they hired the team that developed Narbacular Drop [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

EvanED (569694) | about a year and a half ago | (#41974381)

That's not really true at all; according to Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] , CounterStrike hit beta 4 before Valve got involved, and didn't fully acquire (2000) it until after its first release (1999).

By contrast, while Narbacular Drop was the genesis of Portal, Valve hired that team before development of Portal really began. Narbacular Drop is an impressive student project -- but as an actually published game it'd be pretty awful. The ideas were developed quite a bit for Portal beyond what Narbacular Drop did.

"Portal is Narbacular Drop" in true only in the same sense that, say, "HL1 is Doom" is true.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

partyguerrilla (1597357) | about a year and a half ago | (#41979787)

"Portal is Narbacular Drop" in true only in the same sense that, say, "HL1 is Doom" is true.

Yet Doom and Half Life were not developed by the same team, I understand it's not the same case with Gearbox because they're not owned by valve. Opposing force was an amazing game that not many people played, so it's a shame to see it abandoned like that.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

chaboud (231590) | about a year and a half ago | (#41961827)

Please, please, please, please, please let the portal gun exist in multi-player, except you only control one side of the portal. Holding control of one half is exclusive to holding control of the other. Comedy effin' gold.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

petermgreen (876956) | about a year and a half ago | (#41962351)

You do escape, in Portal 2,

Indeed

bringing the gravity gun and your leg braces out into the world.

I assume you mean the portal gun not the gravity gun (which was a half live 2 thing) and the long fall boots not the "leg braces" (which were a portal 1 thing).

IIRC in the ending cutscene it's not made clear whether you are still carrying the portalgun and wearing the long fall boots when you leave the facility or not.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year and a half ago | (#41967769)

Good catch, I did mean "portal"

Re:Next Valve Game (2)

gman003 (1693318) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959661)

Not if the rumors of a new Ricochet are true!

Or if it's a completely new franchise, as has been legitimately rumored.

Re:Next Valve Game (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41959769)

legitimately rumored.

Yes. It is literally a thing that some person has said.

Re:Next Valve Game (2)

Guignol (159087) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960135)

[citation needed]

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

Abstrackt (609015) | about a year and a half ago | (#41962023)

[1] [slashdot.org]

Re:Next Valve Game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41959841)

Left3Dead: The Prequel?

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

Angeret (1134311) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960115)

Depends. Bill is dead, after all, so it could mean the original group from L4D1 in a new setting. Or not. Hell, I'm so deep in corpses in Borderlands 2 right now I really can't remember what the beloved yet aged Half-Life series played like so even if it's that - right now? Meh.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

HermMunster (972336) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959951)

Seriously a class action lawsuit is a shakedown? It costs them money? Both can be true, but limiting the consumer's legal choices is also a shakedown that ends up costing the consumer individually, which is what a class action is meant to protect against.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960001)

They still have to release Ricochet 2, Opposing force 2, and Blue shift 2 before they're completely out of 2's. There are probably others.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

mlk (18543) | about a year and a half ago | (#41966083)

Op Force and Blue Shift are Gearbox not Value.

Re:Next Valve Game (3, Insightful)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960399)

That is seemingly less and less likely.
By now Gabe hates three is obviously not just a stupid joke. They must being trying to not make games with 3 in their name, because the likely hood of it going on this long just by change is too big.

My money is on Half life 2, Episode 2, Part 2 for the next game they release.

Re:Next Valve Game (2)

Anubis IV (1279820) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960421)

And, in a surprise twist, Valve announces the "Three-Pack of Awesome": three games in one package, each of which is intended to be the start of a new franchise.

Re:Next Valve Game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41960581)

Am i the only one who thinks Left 3 dead is funny then?

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

HCase (533294) | about a year and a half ago | (#41967431)

TF3: The Rise of Pyro

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

dywolf (2673597) | about a year and a half ago | (#41968139)

Half-Life 2 Episode 3?
Left 4 Dead 3?
Portla 3?
Team Fortress 3?

doesn't matter. Still wont come out for another 10 years.

Re:Next Valve Game (1)

dywolf (2673597) | about a year and a half ago | (#41968249)

Honestly dont really care. Valve has been so lackluster with committment to completion since HL2 that I've ceased caring about their releases. If it releases, it releases, but I dont pay attention or anticipate it. Better things to do.'

It's like the opposite problem that 3DRealms had with Duke Nukem 4. Whereas the guy leading 3DRealms was overly committed to just this one game, and killed it by constantly insisting it had to include every new feature under the sun....Valve has a guy who cant committ to finishing or delivering that one game he promised. They bought TF and then took 8 years to release TF2. They made HL2, but didnt finish the story and promised this awesom enew episodic format to keep telling the story as it evolved....it took what, 3 years to give us Episode 2, 3 years for 4 hours of cliched story and gameplay? And now 6+ years later still no Episode 3 on the horizon. 4 years for Portal 2.

The company needs better direction, focus. All this lofty talk is fine, but that's all the company produces anymore: talk.

Slashdot (3, Interesting)

GeneralTurgidson (2464452) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959555)

Bringing you the news from last week, today!

Queue the nerds (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41959615)

Hurr durr Valve supports Linux 'cause its the best. Windows is evil! Valve knows how much Metro sucks, it has nothing to do with wanting to hurt Windows for daring to compete with Steam. Hurr durr. LEEEENUX year of the gaming desktop!!!!!!

Re:Queue the nerds (-1, Offtopic)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959705)

I'm always curious why people post such masturbatory nonsense.

Bored?

Just that dumb?

Perhaps mommy didn't hug you enough (or too much)?

I suppose it's a testament to human innovation that even though so many people seemingly have nothing better to do but post idiocy online, humanity continues its inexorable march onward.

Then again, perhaps the march isn't as 'onward' as we like to tell ourselves...



So it goes.

Re:Queue the nerds (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41959839)

Defensive much?

Re:Queue the nerds (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#41969125)

Defensive much?

No, I was hoping for a straight answer, but apparently that's asking too much these days...

Re:Queue the nerds (1)

Bengie (1121981) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959879)

I'm also retardedly excited.

Half Life 3? (1)

ZeroSerenity (923363) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959685)

Just a suggestion! Would keep with the progression.
Though, you're going to have to finish Episode 3 first.

N.Y.N. (4, Insightful)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959717)

Not Yet News.

Wake me when Valve starts getting talkative about specs.

Re:N.Y.N. (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960021)

specs?
wake me up when they have shipped and patched it.

that you can freeze explosions is not a good feature.

Re:N.Y.N. (1)

NettiWelho (1147351) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960123)

imho when you hear it straight form gabes mouth is as good as news.

Linux (1)

Dunge (922521) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959759)

Let's just hope it's not Linux-only using old OpenGL drivers as their blogs suggested.

Re:Linux (2)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959865)

Of course it won't be Linux only.

It'll also be out for the PS3 and Xbox 360.

:P

Maybe... (0)

Luthair (847766) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959975)

this will be the first time Valve creates a game or engine that doesn't result in massive headaches and nausea for a segment of the population....

Re:Maybe... (1)

chispito (1870390) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960191)

this will be the first time Valve creates a game or engine that doesn't result in massive headaches and nausea for a segment of the population....

What segment? The developers?

Re:Maybe... (1)

Nyder (754090) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960487)

this will be the first time Valve creates a game or engine that doesn't result in massive headaches and nausea for a segment of the population....

I am someone who gets motion sickness easy, and none of valve games have ever done that to me. In fact, I've never even heard that was an issue, until you said something, so I think you are making it up.

Re:Maybe... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41962251)

I don't get motion sickness as a rule.

But playing though orange box on the 360 gave me headaches and a feeling of nausia. I can't think of another game that has had this effect on me. HL was the worst and somtimes the effect would kick in within 20mins. Portal was a little better but I started feeling ill within an hour of play.

It is a testament to how enjoyable the game was that I stuck at it and have compleated it several times

Playing on a midle of the road PC didn't seem so bad but I could not sit and pla though it in a single session.

Just the experinace of a cowardly anon

4Chan paid him a surprise visit? (3, Funny)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about a year and a half ago | (#41959991)

So that means his birthday party was overrun with 12-year-olds?

Re:4Chan paid him a surprise visit? (1)

Nimey (114278) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960037)

Followed shortly by party vans.

Re:4Chan paid him a surprise visit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41965107)

Here's a picture from the meetup I affectionately titled "Valvedrones.jpg"

It's Safe-for-Work, don't worry.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2nubt0.jpg

Santa Gabe's new hat is next to the MANN.CO box on the bottom-left of the image, while Santa Gabe himself is about middle-right. He's kind of hard to miss, but does look a lot different with a beard.

Nerds (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41960215)

That is all

Half Life 2, Episode: 2, Part 2 (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960409)

That is my guess for the title of the next game Valve releases.

Re:Half Life 2, Episode: 2, Part 2 (1)

Lieutenant_Dan (583843) | about a year and a half ago | (#41962891)

I haven't bought anything from Valve in years. still waiting for Episode 3.

Ah, it's Spinal Tap all over again... (1)

Aphrika (756248) | about a year and a half ago | (#41960553)

Company bases new product on previous product, increments version number by one...

It's just 'one better' isn't it?

Source 1 was awful (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41960737)

I know that everyone lauds praise on the original/current Source Engine like it's an Apple product, but the comparison is uncanny in more way than one - like the latest iShit, the original/current Source Engine always made some of the flat out ugliest looking games of all time. Sorry, it just does. Why the hell people thing that the graphics in TF2 are "amazing" is beyond me. I mean, have a look at even the ORIGINAL Borderlands in UE3. Same visual "style" but infinitely better looking. BL2 drives this home even more.

Frankly the 4chan bit is the only real "news" here. Source Engine 2, I have a violin lying around here somewhere for you, but you're gonna need an Electron Scanning Microscope to see it...

Re:Source 1 was awful (1)

TigerTime (626140) | about a year and a half ago | (#41961159)

You realize the Source Engine came out EIGHT years ago, right? It was pretty freaking awesome when it came out. They've added a few incremental updates, since then, but it's in bad need of an overhaul at this point.

Re:Source 1 was awful (1)

coxymla (1372369) | about a year and a half ago | (#41962171)

Source was never "awesome". idtech4 came out before it, for christ's sake.

Source is saddled with tiny maps/levels that are exceedingly slow to load. The graphics are OK but seem to require hardware that is capable of producing much better results using other engines like CryEngine or UE3. Finally, and this is changing now, but it was targeted way too strongly into DirectX.

Re:Source 1 was awful (2, Informative)

VGPowerlord (621254) | about a year and a half ago | (#41964037)

idTech 4 is from 2004, the same year Source was released. Not only that, but idTech 4 was saddled with one of the shittiest FPS games in recent memory: Doom 3.

As for the other engines you mention, all of them are newer than Source, so it's not surprising that they would look better. As a reminder, UE3 was introduced with Unreal Tournament 3 in 2007. Crytek was introduced with Crysis in 2008.

Then again, if you're saying Source is bad, you may want to look at newer games made in it, such as Portal 2, rather than relying on Half-Life 2 from 2004. Source is an iteratively designed engine and newer Source games use newer iterations and thus newer technologies.

As for Team Fortress 2 (mentioned by the GGP), it's non-realistic even compared to Valve's other games. This is intentional... it makes heavy use of Phong shading to make the art style appear as if it were an early 20th century magazine ad, ala Norman Rockwell. Which also offers a clean, uncluttered look... just the opposite of the other Source games. Which works quite well for a multiplayer FPS game that relies heavily on silhouettes like TF2 does.

Source 2 is going to be major release (4, Interesting)

TigerTime (626140) | about a year and a half ago | (#41961309)

I have a feeling:
1. The are going to focus on OpenGL with this engine. They've already ported much of their Source engine to Mac and now Linux. I just have a feeling that they are going to go ALL-IN on OpenGL this time so it is completely platform independent. I think it'll even have a Source 2 - Mobile Edition Engine for iPhones and Android devices. They want to be able to have their games/interface on all aspects of desktop and mobile computing environments. One engine to rule them all.

2. I think that they work with a partner manufacturer to release a Steam Box. They've not only created Steam Linux, but they've created a "Big Picture" button for easy viewing/navigation from the living room. They want to compete against the PS3 and the XBox. If they can create a distro and/or sell a little linux box themselves for the living room, they'll do it. There's huge potential for the living room.

3. With this push of these two huge ventures listed above, what better way to draw excitement than to release Half-Life 3, Portal 3, Counter-Strike 3, Left 4 Dead 3, and Team Fortress 3 all at the same time.

There's a reason Source has been lagging behind some of the other engines lately as well as games that should have been released a long time ago. They have huge plans in the pipeline that have me very excited, but it's taking a lot of retooling and coordinating. It's definitely not as trivial as updating the engine for DirectX 11 features.

Re:Source 2 is going to be major release (1)

petermgreen (876956) | about a year and a half ago | (#41962401)

I wonder if they will open up to modders again.

The early source engine games were modded by recompiling a dll but afaict since source 2009 (the first version with mac support) the source needed to do that is no longer released. Later source games introduced scripting functionality but afaict it's really designed for putting small ammounts of inteligence into a level, not building new enemies, weapons etc.

Re:Source 2 is going to be major release (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41963791)

3. With this push of these two huge ventures listed above, what better way to draw excitement than to release Half-Life 3, Portal 3, Counter-Strike 3, Left 4 Dead 3, and Team Fortress 3 all at the same time.

Maybe not spending multiples times the normal single-game development time just to do a simultaneous release and/or $300 ULTRA DELUXE VALVE EXPERIENCE (TM) and/or $60 valve-super-fun-family-value-pak?

Re:Source 2 is going to be major release (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41964577)

Counter-Strike 3 has already been released. It's CS:GO

Not optimistic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41961531)

There's still going to be a quakedef.h in there.

Not to be a spoilsport, but... (1)

Ranguvar (1924024) | about a year and a half ago | (#41963823)

Gabe never confirmed Source 2. He said "We’ve been working on Valve’s new engine stuff for a while, we're probably just waiting for a game to roll it out with".

That's promising, but it sounds more to me like a further evolution of Source the way they've been doing it so far.

We'll see soon(TM) enough.

Paraphrasing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41964585)

"Is it a completely new engine or are an update from source"
"Yes"

So happy to see it confirmed finally. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41965369)

Source was just dying. It was becoming a huge mess to control, moddability is just lacking in comparison to other things.
It has like 5 years left at the most before it starts to become really awful to work with simply due to the above.

Finally they can just throw Source to the side and start fresh with everything they know and optimize the hell out of it instead of trying to support years upon years of legacy crap.

Perhaps, too, they can rewrite Steam itself. How what is basically a chat client, file and web browser can be so hard-drive thashingly bad is beyond me.
Hell, Konqueror does more with less overall.
I mean, when it gets to the point where outright killing the Steam process and restarting it can be faster than waiting for Steam to unhang itself, you know something is broken. It is way too cache-heavy, they need a version that isn't for machines made in the 80s.

Teaching Gabe to count to three... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41980285)

"Ok, now try again Gabe..."
"One.... two..... one-one.... one-two... two-one..."
".... we're going to need more work..."

Cheap LV Shoes,Gucci Shoes,brand handbags sale (0)

dsangdhw (2778837) | about a year and a half ago | (#42057421)

Hello!! Fashion,low price,the good shopping places, Cheap wholesale and retail Gucci/Shoes , ( Discount UGG/Boots ) LV Shoes , DG Shoes , BURBERRY Shoes , LACOSTE Shoes , Women Boots , handbags(Coach lv fendi d&g/Gucci) , Sunglasses(Oakey,coach/Gucci,Armaini) , free shipping and quantity discount, Accept credit card and PAYPAL ==== http://www.cbssbase.com/ [cbssbase.com] ==== ==== http://www.cbssbase.com/ [cbssbase.com] ====
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